How I Built 3 Eight-Figure Brands After Rock Bottom | Nick Koumalatsos DSH #914

Summary

Digital Social Hour Podcast - Episode Summary: "How I Built 3 Eight-Figure Brands After Rock Bottom | Nick Koumalatsos DSH #914"

Release Date: November 22, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Digital Social Hour Podcast, host Sean Kelly welcomes Nick Koumalatsos, a multifaceted entrepreneur, philanthropist, producer, creator, and dedicated father. The conversation delves deep into Nick’s journey from hitting rock bottom to building three eight-figure brands, offering invaluable insights into personal growth, business development, and the power of resilience.

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Nick's Entrepreneurial Journey and Johnny Slicks

Nick begins by introducing Johnny Slicks, his organic shampoo and hair care brand. He explains the genesis of the company, highlighting the personal experience of his 22-year-old business partner who suffered from hair loss due to harmful chemical ingredients in traditional hair products.

"My business partner was 22 and he was using a bunch of products and his hair actually started falling out...he realized it was the product." (02:00)

In 2018, Nick and his partner launched Johnny Slicks with a mission to provide high-quality, organic hair care solutions while supporting American manufacturing and creating well-paying jobs.

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The Importance of American Manufacturing

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the value of keeping manufacturing within the United States. Nick criticizes the prevalent outsourcing trend, emphasizing the degradation of American manufacturing and the loss of jobs.

"We're real big on American manufacturing and American jobs... we got to keep doing that, it's just going to degrade America." (03:19)

He contrasts Johnny Slicks’ vertically integrated approach with larger corporations that prioritize outsourcing for profit, often at the expense of quality and local employment.

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Challenges in the Cosmetic Industry

Nick highlights the rampant issues within the cosmetic industry, such as misleading “organic” labels and the harmful effects of chemicals in beauty products. He references the Yuka app, which rates product health scores, revealing that even seemingly natural products often score poorly due to questionable ingredients.

"You scan the barcode and gives you a health score out of 100... almost everything's a zero." (05:02)

This underscores the necessity for transparency and genuine quality in personal care products, reinforcing Johnny Slicks' commitment to authenticity.

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Personal Struggles and Mental Health

Transitioning from business to personal life, Nick recounts his challenging transition from the Marine Corps to civilian life. He candidly discusses his initial dismissal of mental health issues and the profound impact of untreated trauma.

"I straight up told people... if you have PTSD, you're just not meant for this job." (11:33)

Nick shares his pivotal moment of crisis on a North Carolina beach, where he contemplated ending his life, ultimately finding the strength to seek help. This led to his book, "Excommunicated Warrior, the Seven Stages Transition," which explores the emotional toll of transitioning from military to civilian life.

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Discovery and Impact of Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT)

A turning point in Nick’s life was discovering his severely low testosterone levels (91), which severely affected his mental and physical health. After receiving testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), his life transformed dramatically.

"Once I fixed that, I knew exactly what I needed to do with my business... life turned around." (17:53)

Nick emphasizes the critical role testosterone plays in overall well-being, leading him to found Core Medical Group, a national clinic specializing in hormone optimization, particularly for veterans.

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Founding Core Medical Group

Through Core Medical Group, Nick offers comprehensive hormone testing and customized treatment protocols. He distinguishes his approach from impersonal online TRT services by prioritizing human connection and individualized care.

"Nobody ever talked to a human being... we bring on more people to be patient coordinators so that you have a human being connection." (26:03)

This personalized approach has garnered positive feedback, with many patients experiencing significant improvements in their quality of life.

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TRT vs. Steroids

Nick clarifies the difference between TRT and steroid abuse, emphasizing that TRT uses bioidentical hormones to restore natural levels, whereas steroids involve synthetic substances that can be harmful.

"It's a bioidentical hormone that's already being produced by your body... steroids are not things that are naturally created in your body." (27:05)

He advocates for TRT as a legitimate medical treatment to combat the natural decline of testosterone with age, enhancing both mental and physical health.

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Impact of Proper Hormone Levels on Life and Business

Nick elaborates on how optimizing hormone levels can lead to enhanced motivation, better decision-making, and overall improved performance in personal and professional spheres.

"Your brain's firing better... it's giving him the drive to go take care of himself." (21:23)

He shares anecdotes of individuals whose lives were saved or dramatically improved through hormone optimization, underlining the profound impact of these treatments.

---

Education System Critique and Alternative Schools

Shifting focus to the education system, Nick critiques the American public school model for its lack of practical life skills education. He praises initiatives like Apogee Academy, which prioritize project-based learning and real-world applications over rote memorization.

"Kids need to learn what they're interested in... learning's supposed to be fun." (40:03)

Nick advocates for educational reforms that empower students to pursue their passions and develop practical skills, ensuring they are genuinely educated rather than merely schooled.

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Personal Achievements and Anecdotes

Nick shares personal stories, including his mountaineering adventures and how inadvertently, his book saved a former FBI agent's life. These narratives highlight his resilience, adventurous spirit, and the far-reaching impact of his work.

"I saved his life through my book... he reads it and didn't do it." (35:15)

Additionally, Nick discusses his ongoing efforts to raise awareness about testosterone levels and their critical role in maintaining a high quality of life.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Nick emphasizing the importance of personal growth, community support, and honest business practices. His journey from military service and personal crisis to successful entrepreneurship and health optimization serves as an inspiring testament to overcoming adversity and creating meaningful impact.

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Notable Quotes

• "We're real big on American manufacturing and American jobs... we got to keep doing that, it's just going to degrade America." — Nick Koumalatsos (03:19)

• "I straight up told people... if you have PTSD, you're just not meant for this job." — Nick Koumalatsos (11:33)

• "Once I fixed that, I knew exactly what I needed to do with my business... life turned around." — Nick Koumalatsos (17:53)

• "Your network is your net worth." — Sean Kelly (11:07)

• "Learning's supposed to be fun." — Nick Koumalatsos (40:02)

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Final Thoughts

Nick Koumalatsos’ story is a powerful illustration of the intersections between personal health, mental well-being, and entrepreneurial success. His commitment to authenticity in business, coupled with his dedication to helping others optimize their health, offers a blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs and professionals seeking to thrive in today’s fast-paced digital world.

For more information on Nick’s ventures, visit JohnnySlicks.com and explore his book, Excommunicated Warrior, the Seven Stages Transition.

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Note: This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, including direct quotes with timestamps for reference.

Transcript

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[Nick Kumalatsos]

Want to shop Walmart? Black Friday deals first. Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50 off a one year annual membership shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart Plus. See [e-mail] we have a guy who is on the couch. He's overweight, lethargic, and he just has no drive to go to the gym. He has no drive to do things. If he does go to the gym, he's like, dude, I went one training session, like, how are we ever going to get that guy moving? But if I can get him, if I can do a blood test and get him moving, dude, he's not going to be able to sit on the couch. He's like, I have to go do something. So even though he's not doing it naturally up front, it's giving him the most the motivation. It's giving him the drive to go take care of himself.

[Sean]

All right, guys, Nick Kumalatsos here today. Entrepreneur, philanthropist, producer, creator, and father. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Thanks, Sean. Thanks for having me.

[Sean]

You brought the Johnny Slate slicks, right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Johnny slicks. Yeah. Careful with that, it's dangerous.

[Sean]

Yeah. Organic shampoo.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. Your wife will like. Your wife will like it. Body wash, hair stuff.

[Sean]

Oh, it does everything.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

We got, we got it all.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

This is the Black Label, okay. Yeah.

[Sean]

Why'd you decide to go the organic route? I've never seen that in a. Huh.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So my business partner was John. My business partner, he was 22 and he was kind of in the barber community. So, like, you know, pompadour, like really like styled haircuts, and he was using a bunch of product and his hair actually started falling out at like 22 years old.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And he was like, what the hell? And then he was still in the Marine Corps at the time and he realized, he goes, dude, what's going on? So anyways, he realized that it was the product. He looked at the ingredients of the product and it was like, you know, you've seen products where it's like, A paragraph of ingredients that you can't, you can't read. He started doing research. He's like, oh, dude, this stuff is making people's hair fall out. So he's like, okay. Anyways, wrote, went down the road and figured out an organic solution. And it took a couple years. Uh, and then we launched the business. Him and I partnered and we launched the business in 2018. Nice. And, and we, we're real, we're real big on American manufacturing and American jobs.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Um, so not only are we like really want to go down the organic road because the reality is there's corporations that are poisoning people. Right. And then profiting on the back end of that, of that poison. So. Wow.

[Sean]

Double dipping.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So it's interesting, there's several videos that if you look at, for instance, you look at shampoo conditioners or hair or hair gel or anything like that, those products are actually causing problems. And then the same company is also selling, you know, hams and Rogaine and all this stuff to like fix it Evil empire type of stuff. So we're just a small company, you know, that's, that's trying to help people out and that. Like I said, the big thing for us is American made, American manufactured. Like we're manufacturing our own products.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

We're fulfilling our own products. Our marketing team, like we're completely vertically integrated and that because everybody's pushed us to go outsource. Outsource, Outsource, outsource. You'll make more money. Yeah, we would. But that means we couldn't, we couldn't give people really good paying jobs like our. We start employees at above, at above the national average.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And we wouldn't be able to do that. So if you look back into like all the way back to the 20s where the America had the boom is in manufacturing.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Over the years we've been outsourcing at China. But where all those damn jobs going? Where's this? Where are these neighborhoods going? And if we constantly keep doing that, it's just going to, you know, degrade America, if you will.

[Sean]

Absolutely.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So companies like us, companies like Origin, you know, Fuel Hunt, that are, that are pushing back and really trying to manufacture things back in the United States because the quality is just superb. And you know, anybody that uses this knows that like this is like really good stuff.

[Sean]

The manufacturing is key. So I just found out, if you go to the grocery store and you go to the meat section that says Made in the USA doesn't mean it's from the usa, isn't that crazy.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, it's packaged. Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

So all they do is ship it here. And if it's packaged in the U.S. they could say made in the U.S. yeah, it's.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It's. That's sleazy.

[Sean]

That's disgusting. So who knows where we're eating the meat.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. And what's great about our company is if you look up, well, who is Johnny Slicks? Who's running Johnny Slicks? Like, you see. You see every employee, you know, we do interviews with them. It's kind of like. It's funny. We do some videos that are almost like office space because we want the customer to know, like, hey, this stuff is being made by us. And it. And it's like, we care. We care about your family. We care about your health. We, you know, and we want you to freaking look and smell good.

[Sean]

Right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You know, that's it.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. There's. There's very few brands that are doing this, to be honest. When you go to like a Target or Walmart and you go to the shampoo section.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I have this app called Yuka. Have you seen this?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No.

[Sean]

It's. So you scan the barcode and gives you a health score out of 100.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No kidding.

[Sean]

So.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Oh, we're gonna have to play with that.

[Sean]

A hobby of mine is I'll just go to Target for fun.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Check it out.

[Sean]

While I'm shopping, I'll scan the whole beauty aisle. Almost everything's a zero. Dude. It's like, no kidding. Because they put these.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

What about the natural stuff? And those are better.

[Sean]

I've seen like 80s and 90s on those. But even some of those, like, native has a couple ingredients. I'm not trying to call them out. That are kind of questionable.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So what hap. What's crazy is you can say all natural. Like, we have some competitors in our space that they're heavily watching us. Then they say all natural, but you know, formaldehydes, all natural. Asbestos is natural.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You mean technically, you know, so you can. They can. And the usda. The USDA has a limit on chemicals. So you can say. You can say USDA organic approved. And it's up to like 10% of an outside chemical that they still approve. Just call it organic. Yeah.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So organic doesn't even mean organic.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Doesn't even mean organic.

[Sean]

What?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So it's hard, man. This is a. This is a freaking hard business to be in. Like the one the American made. Just the supply chain alone to be. You gotta think we're this year we'll be an eight figure company. So we're having to manufacture that many products and you're talking about, you know, that amount of coconut oil, beeswax, you know, organ oil, all these different ingredients that we use to cook products. And then, and then there's not even manufacturing equipment in the States to manufacture cosmetics. We have to like build our own machines and we're talking huge vats.

[Sean]

Damn.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You know, so rent a machine.

[Sean]

You have to build, you have to.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You basically have to go customize and get. For the way that we cook products and make these different products. We have to customize and build our own things. Now there, there are different companies that use them for different things and we have to fabricate them and change them so that we can make cosmetics.

[Sean]

Wow. Yeah, that sounds intense. Yeah. Because in China you could probably get it for a third of the price.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That, and then they've already, they're already mass producing, you know, shampoos, conditioners and different things, but it's not really happening here.

[Sean]

But now they're seeing that these supplement companies are in bed with pharma.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

They're finding heavy metals. They're finding all these huge class action.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Lawsuit on several big name brands that had lead in their products.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. It's scary, man.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Like you think you're taking these supplements to get healthier and it's actually making you worse.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Making you worse.

[Sean]

Yeah, like, you really got to be careful.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You gotta, you gotta pay attention to what you're doing.

[Sean]

Absolutely.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And the thing is, is like. Yeah, could we make more money? At what cost now? I mean, we have families that work for us. We literally have multiple people that are husband and wife working for our company and even their kids. We have one couple that they're, they're teenage boys working for us, you know, so that's what, that's what more we're about. We're more about America. We're more about community. And so when you buy Johnny Slicks one, your money stays here. You know, it's going to some family that's in the United States and you're taking care of your family.

[Sean]

Love it. Are you in any retail yet?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So we're on Amazon and we are in talks with a retail. Nice company, a large retail company. Yeah.

[Sean]

Does that really change the game once you get some of those retail locations?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, it does. But it's a big scary thing. Like you can't mess up, you can't mess up your first going to market with, you know.

[Sean]

Yeah. Because Jake, Paul just Did it with his brand. Did you see the prime? No, that's Logan Paul.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Okay.

[Sean]

So Jake Paul started a competitor to you.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Really?

[Sean]

Yeah, I didn't know the name of it, but yeah, he just got in Walmart.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Oh yeah. So like you cannot mess up that first launch. So we're being very cautious of what that manufacturing is going to look like, what the lead times are, you know, what the contract is going to look like. But we are in talks with a pretty large manufacturer, a large retail unit.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Exciting.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's super exciting. And this is your third eight figure company now. So how do you think you've been able to replicate success in different industries? Because the other industries you're in are totally different.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, I had a lot, I think that I found 10,000 ways not to do something, you know, because I started my entrepreneur career in 2013 and dude, I struggled, I struggled for probably five, six years.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Because you didn't have a mentor.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You nailed it. You nailed it.

[Sean]

That's what I struggled with my first.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Five years that I didn't, I didn't get any mentors, I didn't get any coaching. And that's when, when I got coaching and mentors, that's when everything turned around.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Actually we were talking about. BB was one of my first big coaches. I paid him and that's. Things started to kind of turn around 100%.

[Sean]

Same thing with me, which be.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Get on the show. Come over here.

[Sean]

Yeah, no shout out to you for that. Yeah, but so you hired him. And that was the catalyst to, that.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Was, that was one of the catalysts. I'm obviously I started small. I started, you know what the other thing was, I started really working on myself, my own personal growth. I was, I was real focused on these businesses, but I wasn't focused on myself and my own. And you gotta remember I, I, I was in special operations. I had a, I had a tremendous transition out of the military into civilian life. I served from 2000, 2012, very heavily involved in combat and deploying a lot. And so I underestimated the whole identity crisis of leaving special operations and turning into just me.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And so once I navigated that I was really just. And while I was navigating that, I was really just focused on the business. And I realized through the years that it was, I was the asset. I need to get healthy, I need to learn, I need to grow. And when I started focusing on me being the best version of myself, both physically, mentally, spiritually, that's when things started to turn Around.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And so anyways, that's, that's really where it came from. And then I started seeking, I started seeking growth. And as I seek growth, I, you know, people, people think like, how do you find these type of people or how do they, how do they find you? Etc? I'm like, well, you're not going to find them doing nothing. You got to go walk the yellow brick road. You got to go on the journey. And as you go on the journey you'll, you'll just come across people, right? You, that you'll just, oh, you meet a new person. You're like, I like that dude. I vibe with them. He's got something I don't, I want to learn from him. And that's when, that's when like, you know, you 10x your life 100%.

[Sean]

And that's why I go to events and conferences.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Because you'll meet at least one at every one.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Your network is your network or your net. Yeah. Your network is your net worth.

[Sean]

Yeah, 100%. How was your mental health when you were serving Marines?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Decent. I mean I was okay when I was serving. That was fine. I was very. Yeah. I think I'm in my 20s, right. Yeah, I'm in my 40s now. So during the time I was very hyper focused on that job of what I did as a, as a Force Recon Marine or, or Marine Raider. Very focused on that. I didn't really even, I guess you can say I really didn't even believe in mental health.

[Sean]

Oh yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I, it's, it pains me to say this, but I, I straight up told people that had, like, if you have ptsd, you're just not, you're just weak minded and not meant for this job.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I said that out of my mouth.

[Sean]

A Marine?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yes.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yes. I was a team leader in the end and you know, in forestry. And I said that damn. And then come. And then, you know, karma's a bitch because I get out and the next thing you know I'm dealing with a whole bunch of stuff that happened six years ago that I had no idea affected me. And it, and it did.

[Sean]

So an incident from six years ago resurfaced.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. When I got out. And you gotta understand the reasons why. So I wrote a book called Excommunicated Warrior, the seven stages Transition. You gotta understand that when you're in that job, you're moving 300 miles an hour. So it's like the analogy you use is like you're on a, you're on a train going 300 miles an hour. As you go through your life, and this is with anybody, it's not just the military. As you go through your life, you are collecting train cars of baggage, right? Right. Well, when you get out, you go from 300 miles an hour to 10 miles an hour. Guess what? All that baggage still going 300 miles an hour. Bam. Right in the back of the head, right? And that's what I was doing. I was out running because it was always the next deployment, the next thing, the next workup, the next training thing. So if somebody got hurt, died, whatever, something bad happened, I got hurt. It was. You just.

[Sean]

You kept it moving.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You just kept moving. You got to keep moving. It's the next mission, right?

[Sean]

No time to reflect.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No, you have no time to deal with it. No time to reflect. You say your bias, and then it's the next mission, and then it's not until you stop and you're like, what the hell?

[Sean]

Right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And then it comes all hitting you. It was weird. I had. I remember about. About six months after I got out, I called a friend because we had some. We lost a. Lost a brother, and, you know, he passed away in combat. And I started seeing him in, like, groups of people.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And it's my subconscious, like, bringing this up, right? So I would see him, like, I would be driving down the road or walking through a mall or something. I'd see a group of people, and I would see him on the side of the road or see him in the group of people, and it was like one of those double takes. You know, you're just like. But you're not looking for him. So it's. Your subconscious is, like, bringing this person back up. And, you know, I just started to have a lot of guilt about that. And so I called a friend who had gotten out after that appointment. I said, hey, man, you know, it's gonna sound really weird, but I'm. I'm seeing. I'm seeing these people. You know, I'm, like, reminiscing on Gary and Dustin and. And he's like, dude. He's like, welcome to the club. Like, everybody had dealt with that when they got out.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You know, you just. You just put it on pause for a while, right? And so there's some things I had to work through.

[Sean]

Psychological toll.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, it definitely did.

[Sean]

What do you think helped get you out of that?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Kind of like the same thing. So it culminated on a. In the book, I tell the story, but it culminated at a point to where I'm on the beach In North Carolina with a gun and ready to call it.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. Ready to, ready to end my life. And thank God that, that I didn't go through with it, that I found some strength right there to figure it out. Now, granted, I didn't have any tools, so I, like, I went back to my house, walked in the door, and then just went right to the bottle and started drinking again. And because I knew that something had to change, I just didn't know how to change it. But that's when I really leaned into, like, okay, something's not right. I need to address it. And that's where the work began. It didn't get solved overnight, but it was just like, I'm gonna do the deep personal work. So you're talking about, you know, EMDR therapy, you know, brain clinics. I had multiple TBIs, so I went to a two week inpatient brain clinic. I started working with different people and I just, like, became real vulnerable and open and said, screw it. I'm just going to use myself as a test on me and go through all this stuff to figure out how, how I can fix it. And time collapsed. This, this healing. And as I did that, more and more things just got like, drastically better. One of the biggest things, and it's in there is my work with Core Medical Group. And the reason why for that is, is I had a friend that said, hey, Nick, you know, I'm not trying to overstep. He was a civilian, but he goes, a lot of these things you're having, man. You ever had a blood test and check your hormones? And I was like, no. And he's like, I think you might have some low testosterone issues. Come to find out, I'm, I think I'm 30 or 31 years old with a testosterone level of 91.

[Sean]

Holy crap. That's the lowest I've ever heard.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And I mean, no wonder I was like, wanting to kill myself. You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So now my work. So now I work. I'm a managing partner of Core Medical Group that services everybody, a national clinic, and heavily in the vet veteran population as well. And, man, I can't even tell you how many. How many people don't even know how bad they feel until they feel good. So we get them on and do this really in depth, 28 panel blood test and then get them with the doc and build out a specific customized protocol based off of their symptoms and their needs.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And then bam. And then, I mean, dude, you're getting you're getting messages from them, their wife, like, thank you for giving my husband back. Thank you for giving my. And the dude's just, like, on fire.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Again. And that was what happened to me as soon as I, I. I figured that out, and I went and. And got on TRT and brought my levels back to normal. Dude. It was like my brain day, Right. My brain was on fire. It's like I knew I had clear direction. No more brain fog. I was sleeping better. I lost all the weight. I mean, I literally. Sean, when I. When I got out, I'm like 240. 10 body fat.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Huge. Like, I'm 210 now at 10. I was 240 at 10. Yeah. I was at 240 at 10. And then I went, if there's pictures of me that I love posting them. There's pictures of me in, like, I think 2016, and I'm 240 and, like, 28.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

There's never chubby. Yeah, man. And that's not me.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's when you were 91. Testosterone.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. And I was. And I'm looking at. I'm looking at me. Picture a picture of me on the beach in Greece with my kids, and I'm just like, who is this dude? And that's when things started to turn around.

[Sean]

Wow. 91, dude. That's so low.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

But again, like, I'm, you know, brain fog, can't sleep, can't recover. I mean, I'm just a wreck. And as soon as I fixed that, I was like, I knew exactly what I needed to do with my business. I knew exactly the direction. I had the time, energy, I was sleeping good, recovering in the gym. I mean, it was just life turned around.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And. And I wish. There's so much bad stigma about trt.

[Sean]

A lot.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

A lot. And it's all.

[Sean]

It's all my stance on it is because I took a blood test and I was at 520, which is kind of like.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

How old are you, though?

[Sean]

I was 26.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

26.

[Sean]

So it's a little low.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Lifestyle issues, maybe?

[Sean]

Could have been. Yeah. I wasn't exercising, Working out.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So. But no, as soon as I raised it, which. Here's my take on the trt. I think you should try to raise it naturally at first, if possible.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I got something on that, but go ahead.

[Sean]

Yeah. And then I'm not opposed to taking it if you can't do it naturally.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But, yeah, I raised it, like, 150 points, and I felt way, way better. What'd you do tongkat ali, vitamin D, magnesium, all the natural supplements.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And you're in your 20s. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of that stuff can be fixed by, like, weight loss, sun exposure.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Sauna, sleep, sauna, things like that. Real good diet. Like, a lot of the things that we're consuming have xenoestrogens in them, so they're actually caused. I don't know if you guys know this, but the perineum, what you call it, the taint, is actually shrinking in men and young.

[Sean]

Oh, really?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So the space between the anus and the. And your ball sac is actually shrinking because of the xenoestrogens and the things that parents or mothers are consuming, and they're passing that to their children.

[Sean]

So what does that mean?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It means that boys are growing up with more estrogenic properties, less testosterone, and you can see that in their bone structure. You can see that in their. In their physical capabilities. And we really do have a low testosterone epidemic because of our quality of life, our foods, the poisonous foods that we're consuming, the red dyes that they're feeding kids, sugar, etc. So it's good that you did that. But post 30 with no trauma. Post 30 with no trauma, you are. Your testosterone is going down. Part of the aging process. There's nothing you can do about it.

[Sean]

Even naturally.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

There's nothing. It's going down.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Now. Yeah. If you're fat and you eat like. Yeah. Can you improve it a little bit? Sure. Like, you lose weight and you. And you start eating good, start sleeping better, it will improve, but only to a point, because at 30 is the aging process of when that's on a decline.

[Sean]

Right. One percent a year, right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Something like that, yeah. So now you add in brain trauma, you. You add it. You add in trauma to your gonads, adrenals, lifestyle, whatever, food, and it's even getting worse. Okay. So it's not coming back up after 30. Like, other than doing a couple little things, you're still not going to get a 9. You're not going to get an optimal score, you know, at whatever that is now. So I'm glad you say you should. You should do it naturally before you're going on trt, because I have one caveat to that. It's. And it's the whole. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? So if we have a guy who is on the couch, he's overweight, lethargic, and he just has no drive to go to the gym, he has no drive to do things, he's like, he's like, me, 91. You know, he's got a testosterone score, 91. And he just can't do it. If he does go to the gym, he's sore for three weeks and he's like, dude, I went one training session and I'm like sore for three weeks. I can't even go back to the gym. Like, how are we ever going to get that guy moving?

[Sean]

Right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

But if I can get him, if I can do a blood test and get him moving, dude, he's not gonna be able to sit on the couch. He's gonna be like, I have to go do something. I have to go execute. I gotta go. Better my life. Because your brain's firing better, your. Your everything in your body is functioning better. So even though he's not doing it naturally up front, it's giving him the most the motivation, it's giving him the drive to go take care of himself.

[Sean]

Interesting. You know, so it spikes it that quickly.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Where it will give them like, dude.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Your brain will be on fire. Like, I can't sit here. I got to go do something. I go start a business. I gotta go start working. I gotta change my life.

[Sean]

I want to take. I've never heard that.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You see what I'm saying, though? So it really is. It's a case by case basis. But if a guy is so bad in a bad situation that he can't even execute on his own, well, why not give him a leg up and get, you know, he's 35 years old, 50 pounds overweight. Like, get him moving.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And then watch what everything. And then it only improves from there, you know, but if you're young and you're playing video games too much and you're eating and drinking sugar all the time. Yeah. You need to. You need to, you know, look at you reevaluate your life and your priorities.

[Sean]

Yeah. So what did you raise yours to? From 91.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So I. So I'm. I'm right around the range of 900.

[Sean]

Holy crap. Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

910X. Yeah. So we. Well over the years and I've been a managing partner of CORE with for six. Six years now, I think. So we have found that men operate the best at around 9, 900 to 1100.

[Sean]

So I got to raise mine even more then, I think.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I think you got.

[Sean]

Yeah, I'm at 650. Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, I like that line. Like, those are rookie numbers. We need to boost those numbers up.

[Sean]

I don't think I've ever been that high though. So I don't know how I'd feel.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yo, you've definitely been.

[Sean]

You think I have?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Oh, yeah. Over the year. I mean, it depends on your lifestyle and say you were like 18 years.

[Sean]

Old, so you're not the best. I was a PC gaming nerd.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Oh, really? Yeah. So then probably not. But if you were, if you were into weightlifting, maybe playing some sports, soccer, whatever. I mean, you're tall, basketball. You know what I mean? Then you probably were running around. You know, there's come. There's some kids out there in the te, like late teens, early 20s, like, pushing like 1500.

[Sean]

Damn.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Do you think it gives you a big edge in sports to have high testosterone?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Absolutely. I mean, that's the reason why people, like, you know, abuse them. Yeah. Your recovery, your ability to just work out your muscle mass, your density, all of it.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You gotta. And you gotta look at it as the reason why we die. That is part of that. It's our hormones. Because as you start, as your testosterone starts, as your hormone starts to decline, your bone density, your muscle density, it all becomes smaller, it all becomes weaker, and then eventually your organs start to shut down and fail. And that's just part of the aging process. We've got guys with core who are 85 years old still having sex.

[Sean]

What?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yes. Like good sex. 85, still having sex. Ice climbing. Like, I don't even ice climb. That shit's crazy sometimes. Yeah. 85 years old, ice climbing, surfing, living life, rock climbing, doing all kinds of stuff.

[Sean]

85, that's exciting.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Like, if I'm 85, that's the kind of life that I want to be. I don't want to be a decrepit old man. You know, and that's the reality is what they're doing is they're just optimizing their health to a point to where they have a really high quality of life. I'll say this just for everybody listening. It's not all about your testosterone score. There's a lot of other things that go into your blood work that, because you could have, say, you, you have a 600 testosterone score. You're like, okay, that's, that's okay. It's good. It's better than 91. Right? But you still feel like you sleep, like, whatever. Well, that's not all that, that number doesn't mean everything. Because your sex binding hormone goblin, which nobody ever talks about or checks, could be through the roof. And what, that, what that, what happens then when you're, when your SHPG is through the roof? What happens is it's like, you say you're a Ferrari, so you've got a high testosterone score. You're young, you had a high testosterone score. You're. You're a freaking Ferrari, but you have four flat tires. So you have a great car. You have a great car, great score. But guess what? You can't use it.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Because you have four flats. That's what that is.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So I've got to fix that. So you have access to your free testosterone and you can kind of go from there.

[Sean]

Makes sense.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yes. That's why, like, these, a lot of these online, you know, TRT mills that you never ever talked to a human being. Like it's a cookie cutter program. And that's what they, they do like a finger prick test. And then they're like, oh, your testosterone is this. And it's like you test four things.

[Sean]

And you could just get on TRT from that test.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, but the problem, but the problem is it's not customized to you. It's just like a stamp. Here you go.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And so with us, the CEO, Sidney Gordon has really always been, it's just a bit of requirement that we scale human beings. So as the company grows, we bring on more people to be patient coordinators so that you have a human being connection.

[Sean]

I like that.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Because you gotta think, man, like when somebody's dealing with this stuff, you're dealing with people's emotions, you're dealing with their lives and they have symptoms where maybe they're having sexual dysfunction. They're, you're, they're depressed. I mean, this is a very personable human being problem.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Last thing I want to do is just like put that in some form.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I want to talk to a person that, that cares about me. And they do, they like, genuinely care about your well being.

[Sean]

Agreed.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You know, and that's the reason why I think we've won over the years. I love that we continue to.

[Sean]

Yeah. So is TRT a steroid?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So trt. So this is a great thing. The difference between trt. I actually made a video about this on my channel, the trt. The difference between TRT and steroids. So steroids is. I mean, hypoth. Yes, in layman's terms, it is, but it's a bioidentical. It's a hormone that's already being produced by your body. Now when you get into abusing steroids, like, and you're talking about trend and D ball and, you know, equipoise and all these, those are steroids. Those are not things that are naturally created in your body. Right. You know, primo mastron, all this kind of stuff that those are things that are not produced naturally.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

What we're focusing on is your testosterone and your estrogen and then your overall quality of life. We might be having to give you vitamin D, we might be needing to give you some peptides, B12, et cetera, but these are all things that are already in your body that we test on a blood test and we can see where your levels are and then we can optimize around.

[Sean]

That makes sense.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I didn't know that. That's good to know though.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I guess my thing is it considered natural then?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It's what Your body's already making it naturally, but you are giving it a synthetic version of it.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

But here's the deal. Like I said before, after 30, buddy, it ain't coming back. Like you can do all the things in the world. It's not coming back.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Like it's part of being, it's part of getting older. So you just have to, you have to decide. You have to decide what quantity, what kind of quality of life that I want. Does that make sense?

[Sean]

Yeah. I could see why you said woman like it because.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

90 tests. You're not having sex.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No, you're not. So like with me personally, like I can speak from personal experience, my, everything, my, my equipment worked, but my interest in it was not there.

[Sean]

Right. Like she had to pursue you.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. And even then I was like, man.

[Sean]

Yeah. Because 90 is super low.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, it's super low for a man. You know, like we see women that are operating best somewhere between 120 and 150 or maybe 175.

[Sean]

So women were higher than you.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That's crazy.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's crazy, right?

[Sean]

Are you seeing issues with women with estrogen levels?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So women are, women are complicated. I mean, women are complicated in general, but when it comes to hormones, women are very complicated. And thank God that we have the professionals to do that. But yeah, they have a lot more a balancing of progesterone and estrogen. Plus they have a cycle that they have to deal with that also, as that month goes on, that cycle is also changing the progesterone, testosterone, estrogen. So we have some really, really smart on the medical staff that takes care of women as well. My wife's on it, so they manage my wife as well. She's 39.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

What my, my mother in law is on it. What's amazing is, you know, obviously menopause for women is what makes them turn into basically old women. Right. Well, as you're getting into like pre menopause, if you go on hormone replacement therapy, you can actually stop menopause. No way. Yes. My mother in law's in her 60. She probably hates me saying this. Hopefully she doesn't see this, but she has, still has a period.

[Sean]

What? Yeah, I thought that stops at like 40.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So if they go through menopause. Damn. So that doctor was like, hey, listen, technically you guys got to be careful because technically you could get pregnant. You know what I mean? But, but that shows like the vitality of their health. Right. If you're still having a period in your, in your early 60s, it just shows. But you can, you can kind of stave off menopause by going on hrt.

[Sean]

That's interesting. I didn't know they started aging heavily.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Once that ended, that's really what, that's really when. And that's the same thing with men. When that testosterone starts to dip.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's when our aging process starts to really, really kick in. You see, guys look really old and frail. Same thing with women. Their hair starts to thin, their bone density starts to weaken. They're just, you know, less physically fit, you know.

[Sean]

That's interesting. Yeah. I'm sure if they did a study on old men that are active, their testosterone would be pretty high.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It's higher. Yeah, absolutely. It's high. It's going to be higher. And what they've actually done, they've done studies on the, on the muscle density and the size of muscle, which is why like, you know, as you age, it's important that you lift weight to strengthen your bone density and muscle mass.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Because it's going to keep you, it's going to keep you young. Damn.

[Sean]

So I got a lift on.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Gotta lift, man.

[Sean]

I don't lift.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You gotta lift.

[Sean]

Is it that important?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You think it's that important? And I'm not saying you got to be a bodybuilder, but if you lift weights, if you do squat, bench, deadlift with some accessory stuff three times a week, if you go lift for 45 minutes three times a week, you will add, you know, years and quality of life to your, to your life.

[Sean]

Whoa. Years.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Years.

[Sean]

Holy. Yeah, and you put it like that.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Just like three, three days. And I'm not, like I said, I'm not saying, I'm not saying you got to be some fitness influencer like and looked a certain way, but just three days a week, 45 minutes of lifting will drastically Change your life over a very long period of time. So we're talking consistency. Long period of time.

[Sean]

Yeah. How often do you have to take the TRT once you're on it?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So again, you know, once you're on trt, you're on it now, you can get off of it, but you're just going to go back to what you were.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It doesn't. It's not a fix because your body is what it is. Your age, your aging process, it's going down. So it is what it is. And then.

[Sean]

Yeah, you know, but is it like a weekly thing or is it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, it's a weekly. Yeah. So. So it depends. So, like when I first started, I did one shot a week. As I got like three years into it and I got. I got to know more about it, I started splitting my dose because there's a half life cycle, so I just want to be more balanced.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So now it's like every three days, I'll take another shot. So as, as, as testosterone siponate is starting to decline, I'm taking another shot to keep it more level. Some people even do three shots a week. Subcutaneous. They use insulin needles.

[Sean]

That's a little.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's a little much for me, but. So I just do two.

[Sean]

I was never a fan of the needle part of it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You get. You really used to it. Yeah, yeah, you get really used to it.

[Sean]

You do it like in your ass, right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Ass. You can do it in your ass. You can do it in your, in your thighs. The easiest way, if you're going to self administer from this is my opinion, easiest way is you just sit down. Sit down, sit down. And you just go. You just go at an angle at the top part of your thigh and you just go right there.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Thighs, Relax. You're sitting down, everything's cool. Boom, done.

[Sean]

You don't feel it at all? No.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Doesn't take. Doesn't take much shot. You've had a shot before.

[Sean]

Yeah. I regret getting most vaccines these days, though. That's a whole nother podcast.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's a death. We'll leave that to another one. Yeah.

[Sean]

No, but now you're super active. I saw you just climb the mountain. Mount Rainier.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That was a few years ago.

[Sean]

How tall is that?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

I'll say, man. Listen, I was in special operations. I've done some things in my life that was a kick in the pants.

[Sean]

Really?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yes. And I'm 100% transparent on it. That was a really, really kick in the pants for me, man. I had to Go to a dark place right there.

[Sean]

Holy. Yeah, it was that tough.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It was tough.

[Sean]

How many days?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It was tough. We were on the mountain for four days.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Well, because you have to go to base camp and then you gotta out. You gotta. You gotta climatize. And then it's a weather call from there. But yeah, there's a. There's a YouTube video called Journey to the Top. It's on my YouTube channel that documents the whole process.

[Sean]

I gotta check that out.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So you're not climbing Everest anytime soon?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No, I think. I think my mountain climbing days are over. Maybe some. Some small fun stuff.

[Sean]

It sounds fun when you say it.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So I was actually very interested after that to go climb Everest. And I was. And I was younger and I was in the process of doing that. And that's when the. The ice fall had an avalanche and all those people died.

[Sean]

Ice fall?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So is that at Everest or a different.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It was. It was at Everest in the ice. In the. They called the ice fall. But yeah, there was actually. There's a documentary on it. They were there filming a show about Sherpas or document about Sherpas and they. And it happened while they were there. So they pivoted and this. And they filmed the documentary about. About the avalanche.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

A lot of people died. It was a really sad situation.

[Sean]

That's a terrible way.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

This actually is from a Sherpa from Nepal.

[Sean]

Oh yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That was there at the. When that happened. And this is. This was given to a friend of mine and he gave it to me because inadvertently I saved his life through my book. So he gave this to me. That's why I wear it. Because it's a reminder of you might be me doing what I do. I could be saving somebody's life and I'll never know about it. So with. Through all the. And all the negativity and all the stuff that I do, I wear this to remind myself to stay on the path.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Because you never. You never know who you might be affecting. I love that by doing what you're doing.

[Sean]

Yeah. I'm sure your book has saved lives. You. You'll never even read those people.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. And. And I say that book saved his life. He was. He was a former FBI undercover agent overseas. Got out and didn't know testosterone was low. He didn't know. Yeah. Body. Body bag. Went to a hotel in Bethesda, rent a hotel. Was going to put the body bag in the bath. Did put the body bag in the bathtub and was going to basically Kill himself. Like, zip it up and then kill himself. So it was, like, easy cleanup.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And went to go get a coffee, randomly found my book at a coffee shop, read it cover to cover, and didn't do it. No way.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Got with Cord, got his testosterone checked. It was super low. Got it fixed, saved his life. Now he's. Now he's. His name's on amphibious Spartan on. On Instagram, and he swims to raise money for charities now.

[Sean]

Incredible.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And that was impacted by you and he.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And he never. And I didn't find out for, like, three years later. And then. And then I had. I found it through. Found out through Cord. He's like, hey, do you know this guy? I'm like, no, I have no idea. He told me this story. I was like, dude, why would he ever reach out to me? So I had him on my podcast, and he told the whole story about him being undercover and everything that he did, which was a wild story. And then he gave me this, and I was like, that's a reminder. I need to. Wow, that's incredible, man.

[Sean]

So having been through everything you've gone through, and if your kid approached you wanted to join the military, what would you say?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Oh, that's a hard one, dude. I don't know. I'd have to really talk about why. I'd have to really, really talk about why, because I kind of know what's going on, and it would really be based off of why he wants to join the military, what he wants to do. And at the end of the day here, if he's 18, he's got to make his own decisions. You know what I mean? I can say, listen, I don't want you to do this, or I do want you to do it. It really is up to him. You know, it's my role at that point to guide him, not dictate his future, but as far as my own desires. That would be hard, Sean. Yeah, that would be hard because. And it really depends on the administration. Right, Right. Like, I don't think I'd really want him serving under this administration.

[Sean]

No. I heard terrible things about this one.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. Yeah. The whole Abbey Gate thing, and. And the withdrawal of Afghanistan makes me sick. And the 13 that died is unnecessary, like, completely unnecessary deaths. Young. Those young guys and. And women. It's just a tragedy that would not have happened under a different administration. So that's hard to stomach for me.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Especially with much time as I spend in Afghanistan and. And fighting that fight.

[Sean]

Did you join because of 9, 11?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No. I joined before 911.

[Sean]

Oh, before. Wow.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. I joined before 9 11. Obviously 911 was a pivotal point of. That changed my life forever. But yeah, that would be hard. That would be hard. But again it'd be. Have to be his decision and it be my. It'd be my decision to guide him based off of what he was doing.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, it'd be tough. I don't even have kids yet, but I think of these things like public school and like how I'm gonna raise them and everything.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. He'll need. So I got, I got a 22 year old, an 18 year old and then a 4. I hit the reset button. I got a 4 year old little boy. Yeah. I'm trying for one more. I'm trying to squeeze out one more kid with my wife obviously. And. But yeah, he'll never see the inside of a public classroom.

[Sean]

Hell no. No, it's changed too much.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No, it's not the same. I mean it was bad when I was a kid based off the structure, but it's even worse now.

[Sean]

It's so bad now. Like you could be a cat.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, I. I give it. I'll get a shout out to Matt Bardue in the Apogee Academy. Those guys are really doing something with school. They're flipping, they're flipping school upside down. Nice.

[Sean]

What are they doing?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

It's a. It's more, it's true education. So it's more and you have to, you have to look it up because I'm not as educated as Matt is on the subject. But it really more is about giving. Like for instance, kids. I think it's Norway somewhere over there. Sweet. Not Sweden. Finland maybe. Kids don't start school until 7 or 8.

[Sean]

What? That's late. Right?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's like.

[Sean]

Because we started up five, even preschool at four. Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So they don't start kids till seven or eight because kids are not even in a mode to learn by that. They're still playing.

[Sean]

Mmm.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

So kids just need to play.

[Sean]

There's some smart Norwegians, man. The best chess player in the world is from Norway.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Right. So we're, we have all this schooling in America. How smart are our kids?

[Sean]

Not that smart.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

No. They're being taught to memorize facts.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Memorize facts that the public school system want them to know. You know, you take a kid, you take a kid out of high school, does he know anything about credit?

[Sean]

Nope.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Mortgage processes, investing a P L. Anything that's actually going to benefit his life. He can't even remember the stuff that he Was supposed to memorize for a test. It's in and out, done.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

They have nothing. That's a tragedy.

[Sean]

It's really bad.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

But if you take a kid from one of those different classes or a different country at 18, they know some. They're smart, they're educated, truly educated. Not schooled educated.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And I think that's the difference. So what they're doing is they're really giving the. These youth the space to learn. What are you interested in? Because when you're interested in something, you will freaking dive in deep 100%. And you're like, I want to know this because I'm excited about learning this stuff.

[Sean]

Yeah, learning should be fun.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Learning's supposed to be fun.

[Sean]

But for us it wasn't.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Why were you. Yeah, why are you forcing this kid to learn about something that he's never going to use and he's not interested in all the other stuff? Comps. Yeah, we over complicate the process. It's funny, on the podcast I have with Matt Bardue talking about this subject, I'm so. We're all so programmed in the public school system that it was hard for me to ask questions.

[Sean]

Really?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, because I was like, I didn't know what questions to ask. I was like trying to think and he. And I was getting stopped and he was laughing. He's like, it's hard, right? He goes, yeah, because you're so programmed. He's like, well, what about writing in arithmetic? You know what I mean? Or what about math? And he's just laughing. He's like, it's history class. Yeah. You know, and so what they do is a very much more project based and giving the kids room to learn and teach. So like, so say a second grader might be teaching or helping a. Mentoring a first grader.

[Sean]

Wow, that's cool.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

You know, or if you're in ninth grade, you're teaching the eighth grade.

[Sean]

That's more relatable though, because you're not going to listen to a six year old.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

And what's, what's any. Anybody who knows anything about education is if you can teach it, you actually know it.

[Sean]

Right.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

If you really want to learn something, teach it to someone, go get educated on it and then have to create a lesson plan. So what? Or educate someone else on it. You know, when you can teach a subject, that's when you really know it.

[Sean]

Absolutely. What. We'll link it below. Are they everywhere in the country or just certain states right now?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

That's so. So they first started with one with Tim Kennedy in Texas. And then they slowly started to open up branches all over the United States.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah. So it's growing. It's growing.

[Sean]

It's been a blast. Where can people get the product and learn more about you, man?

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Johnny Slicks dot com. Go ahead and you can use my code, Nick. Get yourself discount and then offer me social media, Nick. Cum laude on anything.

[Sean]

We'll link below. Thanks.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

Yeah, thanks, Sean.

[Sean]

Yep. Thanks for watching, guys.

[Nick Kumalatsos]

See you next time.