How I Sold Out My Gum on TikTok Without Ads | Nathan & Sons DSH #765

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour – "How I Sold Out My Gum on TikTok Without Ads | Nathan & Sons DSH #765"

Release Date: September 28, 2024

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Nathan from Underbrush Gum

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly interviews Nathan, the innovative entrepreneur behind Underbrush Gum. Nathan shares his journey of disrupting the traditional gum industry by leveraging TikTok's organic reach to achieve impressive sales without significant ad expenditure.

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2. Nathan’s Journey and Motivation

Nathan begins by explaining his motivation to enter the gum industry, which he describes as "pretty competitive" (02:27). His journey started with a personal revelation after experiencing a severe toothache, leading him to reevaluate his oral care routine. This introspection propelled him into researching natural oral care solutions, ultimately inspiring the creation of a gum that not only freshens breath but also promotes dental health.

Quote:
"I had a really bad toothache one day that took me forever to actually go in and get it fixed. And I was like, oh, my God, I gotta do something else."
— Nathan (02:22)

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3. Product Differentiation: Natural Ingredients Over Synthetic

Nathan emphasizes that Underbrush Gum distinguishes itself from conventional gums by using an all-natural gum base, avoiding synthetic ingredients commonly found in other brands. He details the composition of his gum base, which includes spruce, chicle (often corrected to chicle), mastic gum, and Arabic gum.

Quote:
"Most gums use a synthetic ingredient called gum base, which is just more or less plastic and rubber. Underbrush Gum uses all natural gum base."
— Nathan (01:12)

This natural formulation not only provides a superior texture but also offers dental benefits by remineralizing teeth during chewing, a feature he notes is absent in typical xylitol-based gums.

Quote:
"It remineralizes your teeth while you chew it."
— Nathan (01:43)

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4. Oral Health Benefits and Industry Insights

The discussion delves into the shortcomings of conventional gums, particularly those containing xylitol. While xylitol is recommended by dentists for its bacterial growth inhibition properties, Nathan explains that it lacks remineralization capabilities.

Quote:
"Xylitol itself just isn't good enough. It doesn't have any remineralization properties."
— Nathan (03:30)

Nathan also touches on historical perspectives, noting that pre-modern diets low in processed sugars resulted in fewer dental issues, attributing this to natural practices like chewing tree saps.

Quote:
"A lot of these mouths have full sets of teeth and beautiful teeth. It wasn't until we started eating breads and sugars that cavities became a thing."
— Nathan (05:04)

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5. Leveraging TikTok for Marketing Success

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Nathan's unconventional marketing strategy. Without substantial investment in traditional advertising, Nathan utilized TikTok's platform to showcase his product. His initial experiments with minimal spending led to viral success, with his first video garnering 600,000 views and subsequent videos reaching up to 19 million views.

Quote:
"TikTok is a beautiful discovery platform. As long as you have an idea of how content works, you can post one video and make a life-changing move."
— Nathan (16:05)

The viral nature of his TikTok content played a pivotal role in underbrush.com selling out swiftly, highlighting the platform's potential for new businesses to achieve rapid exposure.

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6. Production Process: Handcrafted Quality

Nathan describes the meticulous process of crafting Underbrush Gum, primarily done by hand to maintain quality and consistency. Initially a labor-intensive process, he has since invested in a Z blade mixer to streamline production while retaining the artisanal touch.

Quote:
"Making it by hand in the video, I have just like a pot, and I'm just whipping it around. It takes an hour or so of sitting there, just mixing."
— Nathan (18:19)

He also mentions collaborating with chefs to perfect the flavor profile, ensuring that each batch meets his quality standards.

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7. Innovative Packaging and Design

Nathan took a unique approach to packaging, aiming for functionality and aesthetic appeal. The gum comes in a dual-compartment pack that allows for side dispensing—a feature not commonly seen in the industry.

Quote:
"I really wanted a side dispensing feature, and I wanted the packaging to look way different than any other gum packaging out there."
— Nathan (28:32)

This design not only differentiates Underbrush Gum on the shelves but also enhances user experience, making the product stand out in a saturated market.

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8. Challenges with Retail Expansion

While online sales through TikTok have been phenomenal, Nathan expresses reservations about expanding into retail. He highlights the logistical complexities, such as maintaining stock levels and adhering to stringent retailer requirements, which deter him from pursuing brick-and-mortar sales at this stage.

Quote:
"Retail is tricky too, because you've got to front the product. And packaging is a lot when you're dealing with tens of thousands of units."
— Nathan (28:15)

He prefers to focus on building his online presence before considering retail partnerships, ensuring he can meet demand without compromising quality.

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9. Addressing Common Gum Industry Criticisms

Nathan does not shy away from critiquing the traditional gum industry, particularly the use of synthetic ingredients and microplastics. He raises awareness about the environmental impact of discarded gums and the potential health risks associated with synthetic additives.

Quote:
"People are literally chewing plastic. And most people don't even know."
— Nathan (23:45)

By highlighting these issues, Nathan positions Underbrush Gum as a responsible and health-conscious alternative to mainstream options.

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10. Future Directions and Closing Thoughts

Looking ahead, Nathan aims to scale his business while maintaining the integrity and quality of his product. Although retail expansion isn't his immediate goal, he remains open to future possibilities as his production capabilities grow.

In wrapping up, Sean and Nathan briefly discuss broader topics like holistic dentistry, microplastics, and even touch upon societal issues such as vaccination and product transparency. However, the core focus remains on Nathan's entrepreneurial journey and the innovative approach behind Underbrush Gum.

Quote:
"We're gonna do that this year, I think."
— Nathan (19:51)

Nathan's story is a testament to the power of authentic marketing and a commitment to quality, offering valuable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs in the consumer goods sector.

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Where to Find Underbrush Gum:

• Website: underbrush.com
• TikTok: Nathan & Sons
• Instagram: Nathan & Sons

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Note: Timestamps correlate with relevant sections from the transcript to provide context to quotes and discussions.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Is the natural saps have like their own flavor. So the mastic, the spruce, they have kind of this herbal, piney, very subtle but enjoyable flavor that I like. So once the mint's gone, I mean, I. I still love it. And a lot of people really latch on to that unless they're a part of the crowd. We're like, no, I want it to be kick you in the face like type of bandit, which we can do.

[C]

All right, guys, got Nathan here from Underbrush Gum. Thanks for coming on, man.

[B]

Thank you, Nathan and Sons.

[C]

Nathan and Sons.

[B]

Underbrush gum's just the gum.

[C]

Got it. And we got some here.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh yeah. Check them out, guys. It's a unique twist on traditional gum. Right. Could you tell people why it's different?

[B]

Yeah. Most gums use a synthetic ingredient called gum base, which is just more or less plastic and rubber. There are a few other ingredients in there, talcum powder, stuff that most people, I think wouldn't want to chew if they knew it was in there. But this gum uses all natural gum base. It's a mix of spruce, chickle or chicle. So many people will correct me on that. Mastic gum, which is already kind of popular, Arabic gum and a few other things in there. And then on top of that, it's a functional gum as well.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Mineralizes your teeth while you chew it.

[C]

That's cool. And I noticed all your ingredients are organic or natural too.

[B]

Yeah, try to. It's hard to get some things naturally. Nano hydroxy appetite is, you know, that's man made. But you can't really find that natural form, at least not in the nano state.

[C]

And is that what makes it chewy?

[B]

No, no, that's the what makes the. It remineralize your teeth. So what makes it chewy for the most part is just all the saps, each one by itself isn't that great. But I played around for a year and a half and I finally got it to where I'm like, okay, this is chewy, just like regular gum. But it has a way better texture, at least in my opinion, than regular gum.

[C]

Yeah, I can't wait to try it. And what made you want to start your Own gum because it's a pretty competitive industry, right?

[B]

Yeah, a few things. I mean, initially it was just finding out what gum based was. You know, reading the back of a package, I wasn't sure what that was. I looked into it and I was like, oh, my God, these are kind of like, you might as well be chewing on bottle caps or rubber tires. And so I did a little diving in there. And then I actually had a really bad toothache one day that took me forever to actually go in and get it fixed. And I was like, oh, my God, I gotta do something else. I gotta change my oral care routine. So that way I never have to kind of go through this again. And so I went down the toothpaste rabbit hole. And I really like natural products. I originally was going to do like a toothpaste or like a toothpaste tablet, but I always already chewed gum. And I thought, oh, how come there's no chewing gum that kind of cleans your teeth while you chew it?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And stumbled upon that. And I just thought it would be a really cool product to. To launch in an industry that's pretty stale.

[C]

Yeah. And that's pretty unique twist. Now, what about xylitol gum could. Does that clean your teeth while you chew it?

[B]

Yeah, that's actually what most dentists will recommend. If you go to the dentist and you have cavities, they'll say, you know, normal things, brush, floss, mouthwash, but choose out all gum in your free time. And so that's one of the most promoted things. But xyle by itself just isn't good enough. It doesn't have any remineralization properties. It's just a bacterial growth inhibitor. And so it kind of stops those bad bacteria from reproducing, slows them down. But there are a lot of other ingredients in my gum that kind of enhance that.

[C]

Got it. That's exciting because I. I choose xylitol, but I still have seven cavities. Yeah, I just went to the holistic dentist, which, by the way, have you heard about these holistic dentists?

[B]

No, no.

[C]

So it's all natural dentists. So I went to one in Vegas, Shout out to a Four Seasons dental spa. So they take photos of your mouth. And then not only that, they use AI to determine how many cavities you have. And they show you on a computer.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

So I had seven cavities. And then the filling, though, is the cool part because they, they don't use PFAs in their filling because a lot of the dentist there's microplastics in the fillings for cavities. So there's all natural. It's way more expensive, but I thought that was cool.

[B]

What are they? What do they use?

[C]

I wouldn't know. I. I'll send you it after.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But they said it's basically all natural, and even if they knock you out for wisdom teeth, it's like a more natural anesthetic than the traditional one.

[B]

Cool. I like that. Yeah. Don't feel bad. The stat is, like, 90 of adults have had at least one cavity, so. Damn.

[C]

I was shocked because I actually don't eat sugar that much.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I eat a lot of fruit, so I'm thinking it might have been that.

[B]

Yeah, that could definitely be it. One thing I thought was kind of interesting is I was doing some research into, like, just burial grounds and the skulls. And it's crazy that a lot of these mouths have full sets of teeth and beautiful teeth, too. And there's a fun little rabbit hole down there where you can find out that it wasn't until, like, modern age, where we started, like, baking things and eating breads and sugars, that cavities really started to become a thing. If you go way far back, it looks like most people didn't really have that kind of issue.

[C]

Wow, that's actually crazy.

[B]

Yeah. No, I was blown away. And then the one thing that they all have in common to is they chewed tree saps. Yeah.

[C]

So that's like a natural. Just gum, right?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think it was magic.

[C]

That's crazy, though, because back then, they say the health wasn't as good, but if they don't have cavities, that's pretty interesting.

[B]

Yeah, they say that. You know, I'm still a little skeptical because we can't, like, kind of judge it the same way we do now. I mean, of course, they had a lot of infant mortality, and I feel like that really skews it. But I'm not, like, 100% convinced that people weren't just as healthy, you know, in general. I mean, a lot more things that could kill you that, you know, you didn't have antibiotics. But if you were able to live through those things and were able to be an adult. I've read a lot of studies that kind of made it seem like. Like. Okay. That we weren't that much better off and in some ways weren't. Actually not.

[C]

Wow. That's a whole mind shift if that's true, because people just assume. You look at the lifespan. Right. And it's like double what it used to be.

[B]

Yeah. You know, half the kids die, so I mean, of course it's like.

[C]

Yeah. So the numbers are screwed. That's an interesting take, actually. Well, now the lifespan's actually dropping in the recent years.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

It's like dropping by years actually. Like, I think males is down to 72 from 76, something like that.

[B]

What's your. Do you have a theory on. On why that is?

[C]

I think it's a lot of things. There's so many different ways we're being attacked right now without us even knowing. Like 5G, Wi Fi, lights, diet, 70% of diets, you know, processed food. So that's probably a huge one. Western medicine's not solving anything. It's just putting a band aid.

[B]

Yeah. Like basically everything.

[C]

Yeah. There's so many different ways. I mean, literally just breathing air depends where you're at. But that could be bad for you.

[B]

Yeah. And I was, I was looking into microplastics. Like, okay, is it possible actually remove these or reduce it and going deeply into it. You really can't. Really got microplastics in Antarctica. It's like in the air. It's like, oh, my. Wow, we're screwed.

[C]

That's just unavoidable at this point.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you know, you can do things like avoid brushing your teeth with plastic toothbrush or avoid drinking out of plastic bottles. I think the stat is 90 something percent of plastic water bottles, or at least the water contain microplastics.

[C]

Jesus.

[B]

But yeah, no, it's kind of unavoidable.

[C]

Yeah. So these don't. He just came on the pod. I asked him why this doesn't have microplastics. This juice only lasts 60 days. Plus this is a special type of plastic and it never gets exposed to sunlight. So the problem, he said, is when they're transitioning these plastic bottles to different states, it gets hot. And that's how a lot of the microplastics are getting in the water.

[B]

Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you see them outside the store. They're just sitting out in front of the store in sunlight. Yeah.

[C]

It's disgusting. And then that ends up causing disease.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And they're finding microplastics. I've had heart surgeons on. I've had people that do surgeries. They're finding it in organs. It's. It's disgusting.

[B]

Any of them have any insight on how to help get rid of it?

[C]

I don't know. I'm doing pemf mats. I don't know if that helps. Have you heard of those PEMF mats? It kind of removes all the radiation and damage from your body. I don't know if it removes microplastics. I do infrared sauna to detox. I'm doing what I can, but who knows?

[B]

How does that work? Do you notice any difference?

[C]

I just started a week ago. I mean, not really, to be honest. Maybe I need more time.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I saw that come across my feet. I was like, huh, might be worth trying.

[C]

Yeah. There's so many different things you could do, but who knows if any of it works.

[B]

Yeah, you know, yeah, totally.

[C]

But this sounds like it's pretty good for. For cavity, this gum.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people, I mean, just the reviews have been kind of insane. I think on the website we have a little over 1500 and I couldn't be more happy. I was kind of afraid launching it because I wasn't sure how I made the product to my liking and I wasn't sure if people were going to like it as much as I did, but it was just overwhelming. And so many people, anything from helping them stop smoking to going back to the dentist and saying, oh, my dentist asked me what I'm doing different because my cavity either shrunk in size or it's gone. A lot of really interesting stuff. Some things that I wasn't really thinking of. Some children with autism that have some sort of oral fixation. I've gotten a lot of people that really like the gum for that.

[C]

Really.

[B]

Which I wasn't planning on, but wow. Not complaining.

[C]

That's interesting. I didn't know you could reduce cavities too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So my seven are, are going to be gone then with this.

[B]

Maybe after. At a certain point you can't really do much of it. But, you know, you've always heard stories like, oh, I went to the dentist and they were saying, oh, what'd you do? Your cavity is gone. Now, obviously there's something that can be done to a certain extent, but after a certain point, I mean, you can't fix a black tooth. Yeah.

[C]

Did you have a lot of cavities going up?

[B]

I had a handful, definitely. You know, for sure, like most people.

[C]

You get them pulled or filled.

[B]

Filled, yeah. Probably got some PFAs in there.

[C]

Right. Did you get your wisdom teeth out?

[B]

Yeah, I did.

[C]

So now there's new studies on that. How there's infections in a lot of those. I think 80.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

And that's causing some mental health issues.

[B]

So the wisdom teeth that they Leave in the bacteria is kind of going into their bloodstream and basically.

[C]

Yeah. The ones that they take out. Yeah.

[B]

Huh. Okay. Well, I guess I'm glad I got mine removed.

[C]

Yeah, well, yeah, we'll see. I don't know. I still have mine, but they hurt.

[B]

Oh. Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah, they've been telling me to get mine out since high school.

[B]

Why don't you take it out?

[C]

Just, I don't know. I don't like being knocked out, actually. That's probably the main reason.

[B]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[C]

I'm not a fan of that.

[B]

I guess we'll know if, if you go crazy, we'll. We'll know what happened.

[C]

It's definitely hurting. Like some days I feel it.

[B]

Do you put like an oral gel on there or anything?

[C]

Huh?

[B]

No. You just tough it out.

[C]

No, it's literally sideways, like almost 90 degrees right here.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah, it's pushing on my tooth.

[B]

Yeah, I remember when mine started to do that and it was. I don't know how you're doing it. It's unbearable. Since high school.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. Chewing gum's a 50 billion dollar industry. Did you know that?

[B]

I knew it was kind of around that there were a couple different numbers floating around, but something like that.

[C]

That's so high. It's crazy. Yeah, it makes sense though, because you've got to buy it all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it's like a consumable. I used to eat five gum. You remember that brand?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There's probably some bad in there, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I looked in there.

[C]

They have.

[B]

I mean, all the gums for the most part have the same ingredients that are in store. The only thing that's different is the gum base is a little bit different. You know, make me a little more stiff or a little softer. But it's hard to tell because they don't really tell you what's in it.

[C]

Yeah, Big league chew. You remember that one?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I used to have to eat the whole thing. It had no flavor.

[B]

That's the number one. Like comment on my videos of gum that where they're basically like, screw your gum. Bigly chew for life. That's like the most liked. I leave it in there. I like watching it.

[C]

Dude. It has like five seconds of flavor. Yeah, Same with Juicy Fruit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Nothing. Why does it go away so quick?

[B]

You know, I don't know. Because when you're using synthetic ingredients, you can get around that pretty quickly. Like my gum doesn't have the longest lasting flavor. The, you know, the natural mint and organic mint, you know, like spearmint oil. It only stays flavorful for as long as that's in your mouth. But with the synthetic gums, they have nano encapsulated flavors, essentially just little micro beads. And while you chew, it breaks open more flavor.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And so you can get it. Like, most gums won't last longer than 10 minutes, even with the nano encapsulation, but they'll get pretty close some, maybe slightly after. It kind of depends on the person, but anything that's like a natural flavor gum, I mean, gone in, like, five minutes. The nice thing about my gum is the natural saps have, like, their own flavor. So the mastic, the spruce, they have kind of this herbal, piney, very subtle but enjoyable flavor that I like to chew on. So once the mint's gone, I mean, I. I still love it. And a lot of people really latch onto that, unless they're a part of the crowd. Were like, no, I want it to be kick you in the face, like, type of bandit, which we can't do.

[C]

Yeah. I looked up the most popular flavors. Do you know them? Of gum?

[B]

Of gum.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, got to be mint, cinnamon. What's after?

[C]

Good guesses. Yeah. First was spearmint. Second was peppermint.

[B]

Uhhuh.

[C]

And that's as much research as I did.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That's all you really need.

[C]

I didn't see cinnamon, but it's probably up there.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you just think. You look at the store, on the store shelves, like, they're not going to sell the least popular ones.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. What was your favorite gum growing up?

[B]

You know, I really. I hate to say this, but I really liked the Wrigley's Spearmint Wrigley's.

[C]

Oh, the green light green one, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I like the juicy Fruit, too. I never really got into, like, the big league chew.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Flavors. I'm not really, like, a huge fruit flavor person.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But growing up, I did like those the most.

[C]

Juicy fruit was good, too. Just didn't last long enough, man.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Literally five seconds. I like the pink one that rolled up. I don't know what it was called. You remember that?

[B]

Oh, the bubble tape.

[C]

Might have been bubble tape. Yeah. I would stick half of it in my mouth.

[B]

Yeah, well, you can make the flavor last longer if you just constantly put a new piece in.

[C]

That's probably why they did it that way. But I was a freak, and I would open it and break it in half and just put it in my mouth.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Same with Big League Chew. I would eat half the pack at once. Yeah, it was nuts. Dude, how did you blow up on TikTok? Because from what I've seen, you didn't even spend money on marketing to blow this brand up.

[B]

No, no, I spent very little. Maybe like $500 in the very beginning. I did. I ran some before I even had packaging in. I ran some Facebook ads just to see if it was something people even wanted or would pay for. And so I think I did like $50 a day. And I had a handful of people reach out. Hey. Or I reached out to them after they bought it and said, hey, you know, this product I don't have any packaging for, it doesn't technically exist. But if you want, I can send you some samples and you can give me some feedback. I can refund your order or I can move your order to pre order if you like it. And everyone's like, yeah, shoot me the samples. They liked it. Those people were really, really awesome because for probably a couple months after that, they allowed me to keep sending samples to them back and forth. And that was super helpful.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

But that was as far as marketing goes. That was all I really spent. And I don't even know. That was maybe more R D than marketing. But TikTok, that, I mean, that's the beautiful thing about that platform. It's just a discovery platform and so you don't have to have any followers. Oftentimes you don't even need experience. But as long as you have an idea of how content works and what makes good content, you can post one video and then make a life changing type of move as a lot of people have done.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

But yeah, no, I just posted that first video. It's just supposed to be a practice video. I said, okay, I haven't posted on Tick Tock before. I'm probably gonna have to experiment a little bit to see, you know, make sure that I'm on the money with what content works on the platform. But that first video, I was blown away when I got 600,000 views in like the first couple days of the. I had just gotten 2000 or 2500 pieces of packaging that was gone. I was super happy with 600,000. And then once it sold out, TikTok kind of throttles the video. Doesn't want to show it to anyone. Anyone, which makes sense, you know, if they're pushing TikTok shop, they don't want to show these videos if there's no product available to sell. And so in December, I Was just waiting for more packaging to come in. Still super happy. I got 600,000. And towards the end of December, I'm like, you know, it's not a million view video. Yeah. I still got some work to do, but I didn't realize that when I put it back in stock, it was just gonna start pumping again. And that video, I think, has, like, almost maybe. Yeah, 4 million.

[C]

Holy crap.

[B]

And so I got lucky with the first video. Yeah, that was. Damn.

[C]

So what was. What was the actual video, though?

[B]

It was just a video of me making the gum. And the way I shoot my videos, it's like a combination of asmr. Like, first person, the camera's strapped to my chest, and I'm just making the gum. And then I have. I speak over the video. And I just talked about. It was really simple. I just talked about what makes my gum special. What's. What are in the other gums that people chew. People kind of latched onto that. And then so that's just kind of been okay. That's my style now. And the last video I posted, which, every time I go back in stock, it still sells me out, so I haven't been able to really post any more content after that, but that one's at over 19 million.

[C]

Holy crap. Good problem to have.

[B]

Yeah. That's what everyone.

[C]

So you make this by hand?

[B]

Yeah, most. For the most part, by hand. In the very beginning, everything was by hand. The only thing that's different now is I have a big mixer. It's a Z blade mixer. And so it takes the gum base, warms it up, and then just mixes it all together. I can add ingredients because. Yeah, making it by hand in the video, if you've watched it, I have just like a pot, and I'm just whipping it around.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And even though I do, like 70x speed, I can get it down to, like, you know, seconds. It's like an hour or so of sitting there, just, wow. Mixing it and mixing it. So the. The mixer definitely helps, but it's still hand rolled, hand cut. I hired chefs to actually come help me make this because it's more of like a. You have to have a really good palette to be able to do it. There's a lot of. With natural products, there's a lot of little tweaking that has to go on. You have to taste it kind of at every single step and decide what needs to be adjusted.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

But very hard to make a consistent product. And I can see why they decided to switch to synthetic ingredients.

[C]

Yeah. I didn't know that much went into it.

[B]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have done it had I known it was gonna work.

[C]

Yeah. But it makes sense why they would switch to scale at mass.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because this probably isn't scalable with the current setup.

[B]

No, no, it's. I mean, it is to a certain extent, but not, you know, 50 billion or half of that market cap.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, but it's cool that you just didn't spend any marketing and it, you know, it could be a million dollar company.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we're. We're gonna do that this year, I think.

[C]

Holy crap. That's impressive. All from Tick Tock too. Yeah, you should try IG reels out.

[B]

I did, I did. I posted a couple. I think I kind of messed up because I haven't been on Instagram in a really long time. And way back in the day, I used to manage Instagram accounts and I remember that. Okay, you don't want to really switch to a business account until it's absolutely the right time, because, you know, they kind of want you to pay for visibility. And I forgot about that fact. Switch it to a business. And then now it's like no one really sees it. Just a few people that filter over from Tick Tock.

[C]

Have you tried YouTube shorts or. Or Twitter?

[B]

No, I'm on Twitter. I'm mostly just kind of a lurker on there.

[C]

Yeah, Twitter's a lurking platform.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I love the reading, but I've tried to like, write tweets. I'm just like, I don't want to write these long form tweets. I feel like things I have that are interesting to say are so much easier for me just to talk about and then I have to sit there and write it.

[C]

I see those top 10 lists on Twitter and like, each tweet's like 100 characters and they do like a whole list.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And everyone's. There's like the formats that go in style, then someone finds a new one and it's just like all the same. Then you see, like the same topic just destroyed over and over again. Yeah, okay. I don't even want to compete with that.

[C]

Yeah. I'll be on crypto Twitter lately, though.

[B]

Oh, yeah? How's that?

[C]

I don't know. Crypto Twitter is pretty hateful, actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Are you into crypto at all?

[B]

A little bit. I was more into it during the last run.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This one, I was like, you know what? I'm not getting sucked. I'm just gonna hold this sell When I feel like it. And I don't want to sit here and all day long, oh, here's something new. Here's something. Something new. And watch the charts. But yeah, no, I was super into it. And the last run, that was a, that was pretty awesome. That was a good time.

[C]

It was a good run up and then pure wreckage after.

[B]

What's your, what's your theory on what's going to happen moving forward?

[C]

Solana to a thousand, which would be nuts.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If that happens, I have something. I might end the podcast. No, I'm just kidding. Ethereum to 6. Not financial advice, guys. 6,000. Do Ethereum. Bitcoin.

[B]

Unless he's right.

[C]

Yeah, unless I'm right, then I take credit for it. Bitcoin to 120.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Time frame.

[C]

I was thinking this year, but now it's looking weird. And this president, it, it honestly depends on this presidency. If Biden wins. I don't think he'll hit that this year if Trump wins. I think it might.

[B]

Why do you think that?

[C]

Trump's pro crypto. He's been talking about it every day this week, how he's like about crypto.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And Biden is the opposite. So he's going to put more regulations on it. I mean there's already a ton in my opinion.

[B]

But yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna keep that in mind. I'm gonna take that financial advice.

[C]

Yeah. We'll see though. You're in Cali. That's, that's a left state, right?

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

So you're not a fan of Trump?

[B]

I wouldn't say that. Actually, I, I answering before, I thought where you were gonna say something different. I'm not left leaning and I don't even live in a left leaning town.

[C]

Oh. Yeah.

[B]

I live in a tiny town called Placerville and they still put American flags along the freeways there.

[C]

Oh, wow. So it's like the Orange county of, of where you're at.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, kind of, only much, much smaller. But going back to Trump now, I don't have any problems with Trump. I think he definitely could have done, done some things different, could have picked some better people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm very far from being a Biden Democrat.

[C]

Yeah. I mean the videos I see of that guy. He needs to hang it up, man.

[B]

Yeah. I mean the people behind him at least find us another puppet because it's not even funny to laugh at him anymore.

[C]

Yeah, no, it's like old news at this point.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like I don't even get shocked at a video now.

[B]

I used to, Yeah. I used to laugh at the gaffs and laugh at him tripping on the bike.

[C]

Just like now I just feel bad.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

There was one video you made going after this ingredient in a lot of gums called gum base. So what exactly is gum base?

[B]

So I, I talked a little bit about it earlier. It's can be a bunch of different things, but the two main ingredients are usually going to be butadyne, styrene and polyvinyl acetate, which is just plastic and rubber. But they can put any number of other ingredients in there. And most companies, they consider it a trade secret. So they can kind of get around telling you exactly what's in it. But it's going to be a combination of plastic and rubber. Usually talcum powder either in the mix or on the gum on the outside as an anti caking agent.

[C]

That's crazy. So people are literally chewing plastic.

[B]

Yeah. And most people don't even know.

[C]

And that probably goes in your bloodstream too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because saliva.

[B]

I read, I read some study that. And there aren't a whole lot of studies on this, but I read a study that said that the gum itself, the, the most damage it does is when it's actually spit out and then degrades. And that's where you get the microplastics that seep into the groundwater and then people end up drinking that.

[C]

Wow. Yeah. People be spitting their gums like in the ocean outside gets in the water.

[B]

I think it might be singap where I don't think gum is legal there for that exact.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Don't quote me on that. It may not be Singapore, but that's not.

[C]

Yeah. Some people spit theirs in the toilet, you know, definitely in the water.

[B]

Some people just swallow them.

[C]

Some. I used to do that.

[B]

I can't tell you how many people have emailed me or DM me asking can I swallow this? And at first and I was like, oh, it's just one or two people. But so many people are like, want to know if they can swallow because they have no intention of chewing it without small.

[C]

Wow. So what's the verdict? Can you.

[B]

I, I always tell them so it's biodegradable non toxic ingredients. But I never like to tell people like yeah, of course, go ahead and swallow because it's still one, a choking hazard.

[C]

Yeah. Lawsuit.

[B]

Yeah. And two, chewing gum isn't necessarily meant to be swallowed. Even though some of these saps were used medicinally. Like you would swallow some spruce SAP or some mastic SAP to help with that digestive issues. We're talking really, really small amounts.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, but I did have one crazy lady email me the other day and she was like, this gum made me so sick. And I was reading down her email, she's like, I ate two packs of it and I had the worst stomach ache and I was just like, oh my God.

[C]

Holy crap.

[B]

This wasn't a person I told. It was.

[C]

Yeah. Remember that saying that if you swat, it stayed in your body for seven years?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It might be true with, with plastics.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's a very good point.

[C]

Which is nuts.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Cuz the gum obviously leaves your body, but who knows if the plastics leave.

[B]

Yeah, we'll never know.

[C]

Yeah. Poor old lady though, man.

[B]

Yeah, no, she was, she was not happy. I had to refund her two packs.

[C]

Why is she eating two packs, man?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

It says there's 10 in each. That's like 18 oh. 18 oh much. That's 36 pieces.

[B]

On the back it says, says she.

[C]

Did that in a day.

[B]

One to three pieces you're supposed to chew, dude, per day.

[C]

Why is she eating two packs a day?

[B]

First of all, she swallowed them too.

[C]

Jesus. Non gmo. So there some gum is GMO in it. That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, well, like the, the flavorings and some of the other ingredients usually in those gums will be gmo. Yeah. Almost on, on every single pack of store bought gum on the back it says contains bioengineered ingredients.

[C]

Once you fix your supply chain and you start having inventory under control. Do you want to get into retail?

[B]

It's not really a goal of mine necessarily. I wouldn't mind it. I've had a ton of like mom and pop shops reach out, which all those people are super nice. I've just told them I'm not quite ready yet. I mean, I can't even keep my own store in stock, so I don't want to give anyone else that problem. But I wouldn't mind, wouldn't mind retail, but I don't necessarily care. I think most stuff's kind of going online anyways. And this is a better online product.

[C]

Yeah. Retail is tricky too, because you got to front the product.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like 90 days sometimes, sometimes even 180 days, depending on the store.

[B]

Yeah. And these stores are so strict. Like I, one of my employees used to work for a fulfillment facility who worked with Target. And just the story she told me of all the things that they had to go through just with dealers dealing with Target. But. Yeah, fronting all the product. Target had a gripe with something on their label, so they had to remake all their packaging to send the product in the Target and. Yeah, no, it just sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn't want to do that unless it was someone else's job to do it.

[C]

Yeah. That's rough. Yeah. You'd have to completely outsource that and not deal with the personal headaches.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the packaging is probably a lot when you're dealing with tens of thousands of units, too.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that packaging. I didn't choose the easiest packaging to do. Yeah.

[C]

This is two pieces. Yeah, I noticed that.

[B]

Yeah. So it's not.

[C]

Why'd you decide to do that?

[B]

I really wanted, like, a side dispensing feature, and I wanted the packaging to look way different than any other gum packaging out there. It just. Yeah, it just looks different. I like it. I spent a lot of time working on it.

[C]

I didn't know you could dispense out the side.

[B]

Which side you rip up. You rip that tab in the back and. Oh, this one, you can slide it up and there's another perforated square on the side.

[C]

Got it.

[B]

You can just kind of shake it out in your hand.

[C]

Wow. Yeah. You designed this yourself?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Impressive, man. Do you have a background in design?

[B]

I had a design agency type of deal. It was actually. I have a flavor and aroma company on the side that also has a design arm for companies that just happen to need that service. And it ended up being a much bigger offering than I initially intended it. But I've always loved doing packaging and. Yeah, it's just something that I. I really enjoy doing. I know that for all my products, I want to be the one kind of working on it. I do have designers that I work with that'll help me with, like, the fine details, the templating. I mainly. I mainly want to focus on just the feel of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Placement of the features.

[C]

I love it. I actually watched a documentary on 5 Gum last night preparing for this. And part of the reason they took off, I think, was their branding and packaging.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because it appealed to, like, teenagers and stuff. And I remember when I was in, I think, high school, it just took off. Everyone was chewing it.

[B]

Yeah. It's so. It's so strong now that people still, in my comments, will reference those ads, like, yeah, but does it feel like chewing five Gum? You know, they had those, like, I don't know, man. Falling through ice or something.

[C]

They say it's the. The Axe body spray. Of the gum industry.

[B]

I could totally see that.

[C]

It's a good comparison, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, really good.

[C]

Yeah. But they fell off, man. They're not. They're not the same anymore.

[B]

No.

[C]

They got too corporate, I think, because they were edgy back in the day.

[B]

Huh.

[C]

Like they were willing to appeal to a. An edgy audience.

[B]

Were they always owned by the same company or did. Were they a smaller company?

[C]

That's a good question. I'm not sure because I only watched half of the documentary so far. But that is a problem when these smaller companies sell out, Especially in the health consumer goods space.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because then they start removing all the good ingredients and making margin.

[B]

Yeah. They take. Basically switch everything up. Like people always blast Burt's bees.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I stopped using them.

[B]

Poor Bert.

[C]

Yeah. Because it used to be all natural. Right. I don't know what they use now.

[B]

But it's like seed oils now.

[C]

Yeah. Why would you put seed oil on your lips?

[B]

Gotta fry them. Yeah.

[C]

I'd buy just coconut chapstick.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Just one or two ingredients.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I used to use chapstick. And have you read the ingredients on that?

[B]

No, I haven't.

[C]

It's terrible. It's like 50 different things in there.

[B]

How can they fit that on that little.

[C]

I know, right? It's not. It's not natural, so I don't use it.

[B]

Interesting. You're not a big chapstick person. I see a lot of people doing like, tallow.

[C]

Beef tallow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. On their lips or I think on their lips.

[B]

Over their body.

[C]

I don't know if I want to kiss someone that's using beef tallow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, be a little weird on the. On the face. I could see it's like a lotion. I don't use any, like, fake lotions anymore too.

[B]

What do you use?

[C]

I actually use tallow or just coconut oil or. Yeah, anything natural. Like sunscreen. I don't use it anymore.

[B]

Yeah, Sunscreens. Garbage. I have seen a couple brands coming out with some sensory. I don't know the names, but it looks like there's kind of a push back and people are moving in the direction of creating natural sunscreens. I think they put. I don't know what they put in it.

[C]

Yeah. But there's an app called Yuka. I don't know if you've heard of it. Yuk.

[B]

That's the one where you scan it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So I go to Target just for fun and like scan all the beauty products. Most of it's trash.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, but if it's above a 90, I'll buy it. But I had to switch from native because that was in the 70s, 80s to Dr. Bronner's.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

For my body wash.

[B]

I always thought native. I don't. I never use native, but I always thought their whole thing was being healthy. I know it's aluminum free. Did they change it after they sold?

[C]

Probably because they sold the J and J. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. So I don't think they give a. About natural ingredients with all their lawsuits.

[B]

Keep the packaging and just.

[C]

Yeah. With their baby powder in their billion dollar lawsuit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That ended up causing a lot of issues for them. It's just like a business expense.

[B]

Yeah. That was the talcum powder.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everyone was using it on their babies.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Crazy. You know, kids are. If you're 1 years old in America, you have to get 40 vaccines now.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I knew it was up there. Is it just 40 or is it like 40 and some change.

[C]

You get an option for six, 40 plus. There's probably some optional ones, but yeah, 40 mandatory. Crazy.

[B]

Yeah. When I had my first kid, man, they really wanted to shoot him up. They're like, all right, we have to do this. It's like, nope, not doing that.

[C]

You could deny it.

[B]

Yeah, you can. But they put a lot of pressure on. Wow. They make you feel like you're doing something wrong. And they also kind of like, maybe not threaten, but maybe imply that your kid could be taken away from you if you don't. This was like, Holy crap. In 2021.

[C]

Oh. During the.

[B]

Yeah, the pandemic stuff was going on and they really wanted to. To get him with a Covid shot. Terrible.

[C]

As soon as he was born, they wanted to inject him.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Covid shot. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

They wanted to give him the full show.

[C]

When I was in school, I would just get them and I didn't even question it. Like, I thought it was good. But now if I have kids, definitely not for most of them, I. I probably wouldn't get them.

[B]

You know what's funny too, is I have some friends and I've seen people with kids like, same age as mine and the ones that haven't been vaccinated and the ones that are. I don't want to say I can tell the difference, but it seems like there's definitely a difference. Like cognitive skills, motor function.

[C]

At that age already, you could tell.

[B]

It seems like it.

[C]

And how old are they?

[B]

My oldest kid just turned three.

[C]

And you can already tell.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

There's because some of the kids that are his age, they don't really talk as much. They still. I have another kid, another son that's a year and a half and some of the three year olds run, when they run around, they look just like my, my one and a half year old. Like they're not as sure footed. And he talks more than some of the three year olds that I've seen.

[C]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

I mean, either way I'll take it. Either have genius babies. There is a huge difference. But maybe both risk it.

[C]

Yeah, maybe both. But that, that is very concerning. And the, the rates of autism are insane these days.

[B]

Yeah. It was like one in three kids now.

[C]

Yeah. When we were growing up, it was nothing like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like not even close.

[B]

Yeah. You had maybe like a specific class with like a couple of them in there and now it's like autism's crazy. And then also you can just kind of be on the spectrum, but you know, not like autistic. Autistic. I don't know.

[C]

Oh yeah, there's a new word for it. I know what you're talking about.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

People are flexing that I'm on the spectrum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Times are changing, man. But this was fun, man. Where can people find out the gum not sold out.

[B]

Tryunderbrush.com and you can watch videos that I post on TikTok. It's Nathan Ann Sons on Instagram. Same name. And that's it.

[C]

Perfect. We'll link below. Thanks for coming on, man.

[B]

Cool. Appreciate it.

[C]

Thanks for watching. I'm gonna try out the gum, guys. See you next time.

[A]

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