How Independent Watch Brands Are Making a Comeback I Jason Lu DSH #1282

Summary

Digital Social Hour Episode Summary

Title: How Independent Watch Brands Are Making a Comeback | Jason Liu | DSH #1282
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jason Liu, Founder of 1776 Atelier
Release Date: March 30, 2025

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Introduction to Jason Liu and 1776 Atelier

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an insightful conversation with Jason Liu, the founder of 1776 Atelier, a burgeoning independent watchmaking brand based in the United States. From the outset, Jason establishes his credentials by affirming his identity as a watchmaker, a title he notes is becoming increasingly rare in the U.S. watch industry.

Jason Liu [00:35]: "I would [label myself as a watchmaker]. Unfortunately, it's a title that's disappearing in the United States."

The Decline of Independent Watchmaking in the U.S.

Jason delves into the historical context, highlighting the decline of independent watchmakers in America. He references the departure of companies like Hamilton Watchmaker and the dwindling number of truly independent U.S. watchmakers, now fewer than half a dozen.

Jason Liu [00:54]: "There are a couple of us left. There's four or five, probably call it less than half a dozen, truly independent US Watchmakers left."

He attributes this decline to the dominance of Swiss, Japanese, and Chinese watch industries, which have successfully capitalized on both fine craftsmanship and mass production.

Comparative Analysis: Swiss, Japanese, and Chinese Watch Industries

Jason provides a comparative analysis, praising the Swiss for their fine timepieces and the Japanese and Chinese for their mastery in mass production. He emphasizes the challenge for U.S. watchmakers to reclaim their former prowess.

Jason Liu [01:32]: "Swiss have done a fantastic job of making fine timepieces that people crave. The Japanese have. And as we all know, the Chinese have also done an uber good job of bringing mass production to the watch world."

Regulatory Hurdles: The "Made in USA" Label

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the stringent regulations imposed by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) concerning the "Made in USA" label. Jason explains the complexities and high costs associated with meeting the FTC's requirements, which stipulate that nearly all components must originate from the United States to qualify for the label.

Jason Liu [02:20]: "The United States Federal Trade Commission has a label. The actual language says all or virtually all content has to be of US content."

He contrasts these standards with those of the Swiss, who require 60% of their content by value to be Swiss-made, arguing that the U.S. regulations inadvertently hinder domestic watch manufacturing.

Dominance of Major Brands: Rolex and Patek Philippe

The conversation shifts to the immense market share held by major Swiss brands like Rolex, which Jason notes sold approximately 1.25 million watches in 2024, a figure that has been increasing due to enhanced production capacities.

Jason Liu [05:59]: "Rolex in 2024 I believe sold roughly 1.25 million watches. That number has gone up. They've actually increased their capacity."

He discusses the exclusivity strategies of brands like Rolex and Audemars Piguet (AP), which have cultivated a sense of mystery and scarcity, often leaving customers on long waiting lists.

Consumer Demand and the Rise of Independent Brands

Despite the dominance of established brands, Jason is optimistic about the resurgence of independent watchmakers. He observes a growing frustration among consumers who crave uniqueness and craftsmanship, paralleling the instant gratification offered by mass-produced products.

Jason Liu [09:04]: "There's a resurgence of... consumers that are fairly well educated and they can say, hey, what else is out there."

He believes that independent brands, by offering higher levels of handcraftsmanship and exclusivity, are well-positioned to attract discerning collectors seeking something beyond the mainstream offerings.

Jason Liu’s Personal Journey and the Legacy of American Watchmaking

Jason shares his personal journey into watchmaking, sparked by his admiration for vintage timepieces like the Hamilton 902 from 1925. He reflects on the golden era of American watchmaking, emphasizing the country's historical significance in producing both beautiful and highly accurate timepieces.

Jason Liu [19:04]: "So it's interesting you bring that up. So this is how I got into watchmaking. So although I'm an avid watch collector, this is a Hamilton 902. And so if you look at it, it's beautiful inside."

He laments the decline of this legacy, attributing it to the U.S. relinquishing its watchmaking capabilities and the Swiss excelling in global marketing.

Craftsmanship and Artistry at 1776 Atelier

A significant highlight of the episode is Jason's detailed showcase of 1776 Atelier's craftsmanship. He explains the meticulous process of creating a skeletonized timepiece, emphasizing the hand-cut components and the artisanal approach that sets his brand apart from mass-produced counterparts.

Jason Liu [12:16]: "We didn't use CNC for that. We cut it out with jeweler saws and files."

Jason elaborates on the challenges of manual craftsmanship, where precision is paramount, and any mistake can lead to discarding the entire piece.

Jason Liu [16:27]: "So someone actually cut this out manually."

He further discusses the balance between maintaining traditional watchmaking techniques and innovating within the constraints of modern manufacturing.

Overcoming Challenges and Future Prospects

Despite facing numerous challenges, including high production costs and regulatory hurdles, Jason remains optimistic about the future of independent watchmaking in the U.S. He highlights the supportive community and the increasing consumer appreciation for handcrafted timepieces.

Jason Liu [25:13]: "But what we've put out so far has been really, really, really well received."

He hints at future projects, including more artisanal designs and collaborations that could further elevate the status of U.S.-based watchmakers.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Sean praising Jason's dedication and the exceptional quality of 1776 Atelier's watches. Jason provides information on how listeners can explore and purchase his timepieces, encouraging a renewed interest in independent watchmaking.

Jason Liu [30:50]: "1776 Atelier.com"

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Notable Quotes:

• Jason Liu [00:35]: "I would [label myself as a watchmaker]. Unfortunately, it's a title that's disappearing in the United States."

• Jason Liu [02:20]: "The United States Federal Trade Commission has a label. The actual language says all or virtually all content has to be of US content."

• Jason Liu [05:59]: "Rolex in 2024 I believe sold roughly 1.25 million watches. That number has gone up. They've actually increased their capacity."

• Jason Liu [09:04]: "There's a resurgence of... consumers that are fairly well educated and they can say, hey, what else is out there."

• Jason Liu [12:16]: "We didn't use CNC for that. We cut it out with jeweler saws and files."

• Jason Liu [19:04]: "So it's interesting you bring that up. So this is how I got into watchmaking. So although I'm an avid watch collector, this is a Hamilton 902. And so if you look at it, it's beautiful inside."

• Jason Liu [16:27]: "So someone actually cut this out manually."

• Jason Liu [25:13]: "But what we've put out so far has been really, really, really well received."

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Key Takeaways

• Declining U.S. Independent Watchmaking: The U.S. has seen a significant decline in independent watchmakers due to the rise of Swiss, Japanese, and Chinese brands.

• Regulatory Challenges: Strict FTC regulations on the "Made in USA" label impose high costs and production hurdles for domestic watchmakers.

• Market Dominance of Major Brands: Brands like Rolex and Patek Philippe continue to dominate the market through exclusivity and robust marketing strategies.

• Resurgence of Independent Brands: There is a growing consumer demand for unique, handcrafted timepieces, paving the way for independent watchmakers to make a comeback.

• Artisanal Craftsmanship: 1776 Atelier exemplifies the blend of traditional craftsmanship with modern design, offering semi-bespoke timepieces at competitive prices.

• Future Prospects: Despite challenges, the future looks promising for U.S. independent watchmakers, with increasing consumer appreciation and potential for collaboration within the industry.

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For more information or to explore 1776 Atelier's collection, visit 1776atelier.com.

Transcript

[Jason Liu]

There's this term that is probably one of the most contentious terms in watchmaking, where people say, did you design everything from the ground up and did you manufacture everything from the ground up? I'd like to use the word that we have a manufacturer, so I am using a traditional Swiss architecture, so we're using somebody else's architecture where we manufacture those plates and bridges that are our own.

[Host]

All right, guys, we got Jason liu here today, 1776 atelier. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Jason Liu]

Hey, thank you for having me.

[Host]

Yeah. Would you label yourself as a watchmaker?

[Jason Liu]

I would.

[Host]

What a title to have. Not many people have that title.

[Jason Liu]

It's sadly titled Disappearing in the United States. It's still prevalent in some other parts of the world, but as the world becomes more digital, it's an area that's truly. It's dying.

[Host]

Right. You're the first one I've met in the US Why do you think that is? Why do you guys think you're a dying breed right now?

[Jason Liu]

Well, so in the 1950s, one of the last, the Hamilton Watchmaker Watch Watch Company left the United States. There are a couple of us left. There's four or five, probably call it less than half a dozen, truly independent US Watchmakers left. But, you know, Swiss have done a fantastic job of making fine timepieces that people crave. The Japanese have. And as we all know, the Chinese have also done uber good job of bringing mass production to the watch world. And so with the. And the US has just shed its capability, which is something I think we can do a good job to try to overcome.

[Host]

Yeah. What are the big watch brands in China? I haven't heard of those.

[Jason Liu]

Well, I think if you look. So the Swiss have a watch award called the gphg. And although I wouldn't say that many, my opinion. And there's. I'm sure there's some Chinese watch companies out there that might be shaking their fist. They say we. We're bigger than we are, but they're probably going to be more niche, almost independent watchmaking brands, but have started to gain notoriety because they've won some prestigious awards. So I think that it's up and coming. And it's a eventuality with the industrialization of China that I think is unfortunate, that I think the US Needs to play some catch up there.

[Host]

Right. So a lot of US Customers like the label made in the usa, but we were just talking earlier how it's almost impossible to have that label as a watchmaker here at an affordable price point.

[Jason Liu]

Right, Right.

[Host]

Why is that?

[Jason Liu]

So the United States Federal Trade Commission has a label. If we go into that says the actual language says all or virtually all content has to be of US content. Now if we actually say so, for me to say that, that means every component has to have US origins. Now let's just compare and contrast with other countries. So when somebody, when we flip open a Rolex or any of the other watches, I'm not going to make an allegation that one company has more or less. But the Swiss arbiter for mate in Switzerland is 60% by value. So and then Germany, England, other countries have much lower standards than the United States. And we can make the argument for the Swiss, for the Federal Trade Commission that they're just protecting companies that really do 100%. But at the same time, when we cannot buy jewels, hairsprings, balances, gears, pivots in the United States, they either have to be manufactured completely here. But for example, let's take hairspring material. That's the part that turns the balance that we call the heartbeat of a watch. Every mechanical watch has to have a hairspring, hairspring material. The minimum order quantity is roughly a little bit over a mile of hairspring material at a cost of well over a million dollars. So when I only need less than 6 inches of hairspring material, you can imagine what that does. So as to my knowledge, there's only one watchmaker in the United States that can have made in the United States stamp. The Federal Trade Commission prohibits us from using the words made in, built in, crafted to use Texas, USA or any other moniker that gives the illusion that it's made in the United States. Unless we can pass that almost impossible to meet threshold. So then we have to use assembled, which is a travesty when more than 70, I'd say 80% of our content is us.

[Host]

Wow. So they need to look into that, how to change that. Right.

[Jason Liu]

And again, it's a double edged sword when somebody that's making floor mats, for example, can use polymers and resins and say, hey, because of the industrialization of that type of chemical or that type of commodity is easier to do. But when the industry has entirely left this country, how do you bring it back? How do you bring an industry back to the United States when you're forced to use the word assembled? And the threshold for us measuring us against our peers is much higher.

[Host]

Yeah, that makes sense. So Rolex obviously has the biggest market share, right? Percentage wise? I don't know the exact number, but is that number going up or down over the next few years. You think so? Searching for the perfect job can be overwhelming. You know it's out there, you just don't know how to find it. The good news? You don't have to do it alone. Shout out to today's sponsor, Specialized Recruiting Group. Specialized Recruiting Group is here to help personalized job search support. Tailored to your skills and needs. They connect job seekers with contract and full time roles. The best part is that it's completely free for job seekers. Specialized Recruiting Group is ready to find the talent you need. Go to srgpros.com see how our recruitment specialists with the deep understanding of experience and expertise you need can find the right fit for your business. After all, you deserve to see the best candidates possible, both active and passive. Visit srgpros.com today to start your job search. If you don't see the right job listed, SRG also recruits for confidential roles. Just call a local office to learn more. Take the next step in your career [e-mail].

[Jason Liu]

Rolex is now. I watch the media. So for all the viewers out there or listeners who may criticize it, Rolex in 2024 I believe sold roughly 1.25 million watches. That number has gone up. They've actually increased their capacity.

[Host]

Geez.

[Jason Liu]

So they were the largest producer in the Swiss marketplace, I think globally by far. And they've done a. They've done a great job marketing themselves. Rolex is a fantastic marketing machine. They do, they build great timepieces that are craved.

[Host]

Yeah. 1.25 million a year is insane.

[Jason Liu]

It's insane.

[Host]

How are they making that many? That's nuts.

[Jason Liu]

So they've actually geared up to increase production because if you go into a Rolex dealer, there's the infamous. If you want your Rolex Daytona or your Rolex watch, you will wait months. It's not. And you could say, argue for Daytona. It might be one of the most desirable timepieces in the world. And it's arguably impossible to get.

[Host]

Some people have waited years.

[Jason Liu]

That's right.

[Host]

Yeah. It's nuts. I've been able to get some in Vegas, I think partially because of connections. But it.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah, you might know a person or two.

[Host]

Yeah. But sometimes, like before the podcast, I would walk in there, they wouldn't even look at me. You know what I mean? I'd pull in, they wouldn't even talk to me and the store would be empty.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. And so I think the talk in the watch world is that that's alienated some people with the difficulty of going to an ad. You don't have any inventory to sell me, and you're going to go on some sort of mysterious list. And the algorithm behind when you're who and when somebody's going to get a timepiece is, I think, one of the greatest mysteries in the watch world.

[Host]

Yeah. It's such a mystery, like you don't know what number you are. You don't even know if there is a list.

[Jason Liu]

I don't know if there is a list or have to buy 10 other pieces of jewelry or something else to get to elevate my status within that list.

[Host]

AP is even harder.

[Jason Liu]

Yes.

[Host]

AP is hard. I walked into Rashard Milley. Yeah. They didn't even put me on a list. That one's probably impossible.

[Jason Liu]

Those are the big. So AP is one of the holy trinity, right. With Patek Philippe, AP and Vacheron Constantin. And they. They occupy a big piece of the Swiss wash industry and they hold a huge portion of the revenue, but that's largely because of demand. Now, I think in 2024, we started to see a little bit of downturn in demand and hopefully things start coming back to earth a little bit.

[Host]

Yeah. Did that scare you, that downturn? It was a pretty big one, Right.

[Jason Liu]

From a watch industry perspective, for independence, it really hasn't bothered us, right?

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Jason Liu]

We, as an independent watchmaker, we kind of cater towards the few, that a lot of our buyers are collectors who said, I want something a little bit different. Right. We might have a couple of the other brands, Swiss brands, Japanese brands, in our collections, and we want something that's maybe a little bit more personal, that has a higher. Arguably a higher attention to hand craftsmanship.

[Host]

Yeah. Do you think independent brands are going to make a comeback?

[Jason Liu]

I think they are making a comeback. Right there's. Now, here's the question is, are there going to be too many of us? But right now there is a resurgence of. My personal take is there's been a lot of frustration as you go to. We named a bunch of brands where they're difficult to buy. And I think the consumer in the world, where you can Amazon something and have it show up at your door the same day is a frustration saying, I might wait months, if not years to get something. And these are same consumers that are fairly well healed and they're educated and they can say, hey, what else is out there? And as you educate yourself about timepieces, it's similar to the car world, where you start to crave something a little bit more that's not pedestrian and So I think the independents who have said, hey, I can offer a higher level of handcraftsmanship, I can offer you exclusivity. There are not 10 million of these things that are going to be made and we're gonna.

[Host]

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[Jason Liu]

That's great. And offer you something that's truly artisanal and built almost semi sometimes. All of our timepieces are semi bespoke.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jason Liu]

At a price that's sometimes a fraction of what the big brands charge.

[Host]

Yeah. And handmade, right? I'm not sure if Rolexes are fully handmade, to be honest.

[Jason Liu]

And I'm not gonna speak on behalf of the big, dangerous Swiss brand, but I do know that the level of hand craftsmanship and hand workmanship that we have is gonna be higher.

[Host]

Yeah. I know you brought. If you could show us, but we'll take B roll and put it on the camera.

[Jason Liu]

Okay.

[Host]

But could you explain what's going on here?

[Jason Liu]

Sure. So we actually. We have a timepiece for you. Do you want to start with?

[Host]

Oh, yeah, please.

[Jason Liu]

So this is a timepiece that's a gift for the show. We hope that. I look forward to having you wear these.

[Host]

Yeah, I can't wait. I'll put it on right now if it fits. My wrists are nice and skinny, so I might have to adjust it. Damn. This box is legit, too. Full wood. Wow. Look at this thing. Beautiful design on the box itself. Wow. Damn. So this is a skeleton, right?

[Jason Liu]

It's a hand. Skeletonized handpiece. So we didn't use CNC for that. We cut it out with jeweler saws and files.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's even moving in the back and everything.

[Jason Liu]

Yes, you can take it off. And it's as beautiful in the front as it is from the back. It's a push button.

[Host]

Wow, this is phenomenal. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's insane. I'll took a video and show it on the camera later, but thanks so much.

[Jason Liu]

Thank you.

[Host]

Yeah, this is.

[Jason Liu]

I'm glad you like it. So if you take a look at how that's built, we have a timepiece, a sample here, you look at the front, that's the main plate. Here's a one that's hand finished, that's hand cut out. You can see the jagged edge from us from a jeweler saw cutting that out. Wow.

[Host]

So someone actually cut this out manually.

[Jason Liu]

We cut that out manually and you can see a more finished version as we filed it and hand beveled each edge of what that looks like.

[Host]

Damn, this looks intense. This is not easy to do.

[Jason Liu]

And so as that catches the light, the little bevels that you see on that, the corners, each piece is actually cut out by hand. And why we chose to do that is that's what we view true watchmaking as. Right. It's not just a CNC machine that's using modern technology and cutting. What's missing is that level of craftsmanship. What you're buying at a certain point is what we believe is mechanical art.

[Host]

Yeah, Right.

[Jason Liu]

If we really were to distill this and half the watch world might get mad at me for saying this, but if you really want the best, most accurate timepiece, pull out your phone and look at your iPhone or your Samsung and it's going to tell you exactly synced up to the atomic time. It will be a perpetual calendar that knows leap years. It will be accurate far more than 100 years. And it's always going to be accurate. But what you're buying is mechanical artistry. Right. You're buying that piece of what we view as almost has a soul to it. There's a watchmaker, there's an artist there that spent time to put those bevels in there. Why? It's not because you can. We believe it's because you should.

[Host]

I love that. Yeah. You're basically buying art in a sense. Right. It's not just a watch.

[Jason Liu]

That's right.

[Host]

You're not using it for time. In fact, all my watches, I don't even use it for time.

[Jason Liu]

Right. It's something when you put it on it, as, you know, some people joke around, say, hey, that I don't put feelings first. Sometimes I take a very logical view towards things. But from timepieces, it's. It speaks some. When you buy a timepiece, it should somewhat speak to your soul.

[Host]

Yeah. That's Asian in you. You don't put feelings first.

[Jason Liu]

Maybe. Yeah, yeah. The autistic Asian in me, that's the tough love, man.

[Host]

My mother raised me with that logic.

[Jason Liu]

Yes. That might be part of the culture.

[Host]

Yeah. No, it is. Asians are strict. Your parents are strict, weren't they?

[Jason Liu]

They were strict, yes.

[Host]

Yeah. It's good in a sense, I think.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. It keeps us from being complete fuck ups.

[Host]

Yeah. Complete degeneracy. Then they move to America and you see the Asian Americans out here wilding out. Yeah, yeah. I've been to China a few times and.

[Jason Liu]

And they, they. But they haven't gotten here yet, so.

[Host]

Oh, China hasn't. Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

Because they're making. They. They make a lot of the. I think they make a lot of components for people. We try to minimize the. I think the only Chinese component on that right now is the clasp.

[Host]

Nice. So I love that. So how exactly is a skeleton made? Because that's probably one of the hardest models to make. Right. I'd imagine.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. So people ask. Let me answer that in an about way. So people ask, is our movement in house? So in house is this, is this term that is probably one of the most contentious terms in watchmaking where people say, did you design everything from the ground up and did you manufacture everything from the ground up? I like to use the word that we have a manufacturer movement. So I am using a traditional Swiss architecture. So we're using somebody else's architecture. We remanufactured those plates in plates and bridges that are our own. And so at that point is that I didn't reinvent the wheel by saying, oh, we're coming with our new own gear train design. I'm using somebody else's gear train design. But our components are our own. And so how did we do that is we literally took one of our main plates, drilled holes in them, and then took a jeweler's file and a jeweler saw and cut out the pieces to expose the gear train.

[Host]

That's insane.

[Jason Liu]

So. And then if you look on that timepiece, you can actually see all those cuts that you see out there are hand cut out the dial, like all.

[Host]

The ones on the outside. Everything that's so impressive. There doesn't seem like much room for error on something like this.

[Jason Liu]

You screw it up, you throw it away.

[Host]

Really? Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Liu]

I can't even when we bevel the edges. Right. So we're. There's a term called on glage where we're trying to bring in use cut the bevels, so that catches the light. It's part of fine watchmaking. But a lot of that just uses a graver. It's a engraver where we're just cutting away bits. But if you slip on that once, usually the graver is so sharp, it'll scratch the entire movement. You throw the whole thing away.

[Host]

Holy crap. What keeps this thing spinning in the back?

[Jason Liu]

So that's the hairspring that we're talking about.

[Host]

Oh, that's the hairspring. That's the most expensive thing you mentioned earlier.

[Jason Liu]

So that's a. Well, we use a Swiss hairspring for that reason. Right. That I. I didn't want to. At that timepiece. Right. There's $4,900. At that price point, I can't put a portion of a million dollar hairspring.

[Host]

1.25 million for hairspring, man.

[Jason Liu]

Yep.

[Host]

That's nuts. Hopefully a USA manufacturer starts making that for cheaper.

[Jason Liu]

They do. Right. But it's just not at the right price. Now, I think maybe there's some opportunity for maybe a bunch if US Watchmaking becomes more than a handful of us.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

There's maybe opportunities for multiple watchmakers to collaborate. I think there's a lot of opportunity when there's only less than half a dozen of us. I don't view us as competition against one another. We're just. The US Is the largest watch market in the world.

[Host]

Wow. I didn't know that.

[Jason Liu]

I think we. Don't quote me on this, but I think we will represent roughly one third of the world's watch consumerism.

[Host]

Damn.

[Jason Liu]

But. But we only occupy, I think, less than 4% of the watch industry. And that's another term I heard from somebody else. So somebody can probably chatgpt or Google me and correct me.

[Host]

Good old AI. I mean, it sounds accurate to me. I don't hear of any US Watchmakers. A lot of my friends own watches.

[Jason Liu]

There's a couple, and I really respect them. Right. So before anybody else, there's timepieces from competitors of mine that I own as part of my own collection. I respect them all wildly. And most of us are just watch nerds.

[Host]

Right.

[Jason Liu]

We love mechanical timepieces. And so if somebody makes something beautiful, I'll be the first to give them credit and give them props for it. But what we're trying to do is make it a little bit more accessible.

[Host]

What was your favorite era of watches? Because there's a new trend now of people restoring old watches. I don't know if you've seen it yes. On TikTok.

[Jason Liu]

So it's interesting you bring that up. So this is how I got into watchmaking. So although I'm an avid watch collector, this is a Hamilton 902. And so if you look at it, it's beautiful inside. And I'll let you look at that.

[Host]

So this is 100 years old.

[Jason Liu]

That was built in 1925.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Jason Liu]

So it's either 99 or 100 years old.

[Host]

Yeah. This is historic.

[Jason Liu]

It's historic, and it's in a modern case with our strap on it. But if you look at the work on that, that was built that beautifully 100 years ago.

[Host]

That's impressive.

[Jason Liu]

But if you drop it, it's not shock resistant. They're a lot less mag. A lot more prone to being magnet magnetized. But they're beautiful.

[Host]

Super beautiful. This is a clean design.

[Jason Liu]

Yes.

[Host]

I love it.

[Jason Liu]

So that you know this is from the golden era of American watchmaking. Right. If you look at back when that was made, in the mid-20s, the US was at its peak. We were the best in the world at watchmaking. At watchmaking. There was nobody better.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jason Liu]

So you think about the history. There is actually, the US Has a pretty storied and positive history in watchmaking. You figure from the 1880s during the industrial Revolution, when railroads were big, part of the expansion of the US Industrial complex, we needed watches that were accurate to keep trains from crashing into each other, to keep things on time. And so the idea of a railroad standard and pocket watches that were the most accurate became a big pervasive need as part of the industrialization of this country. And the US Was able to, where the Swiss were always good at building bespoke, highly crafted timepieces, the US Was really good, became really good at building highly crafted, beautiful timepieces, but also mass production. So you have the Waltham Watch Company, you had Hamilton, you had Elgin, and all these companies that took their turns at becoming some of the biggest watch manufacturers on the Earth, but also building some of those beautiful, accurate timepieces ever. Some of the Hamilton timepieces that went all the way through World War II were known to be the most accurate timepieces in the world.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jason Liu]

But that all disappeared when we gave up that capability. The Swiss were really good at marketing their capabilities, and we gave it up as a country.

[Host]

How much would that Hamilton watch cost if you found one on the market these days?

[Jason Liu]

Oh, actually, they're not that expensive. You look at an old Hamilton pocket watch that's fully restored, it's going to be less than $1,000.

[Host]

Really? Because that's historic. I would buy something like that just to have, you know.

[Jason Liu]

But those watches, a good fully restored piece, often less than $2,000. And it's a neat piece of history to have.

[Host]

That's not bad at all. It could probably be a decent investment. Honestly too.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. And if you look at some of these great pocket watches, there's some military grade ones, there's that they wore, they had in World War II that were used to navigate B17 bombers during the war.

[Host]

Damn.

[Jason Liu]

And so it's pretty neat. Some of them have really neat. Really neat histories.

[Host]

Yeah, there's some that were used. What was the one in space? Forget someone. Astronaut word in space.

[Jason Liu]

So Omega.

[Host]

Omega.

[Jason Liu]

Omega makes the moonwatch. And that really put. Was a big part of Omega's history.

[Host]

Right.

[Jason Liu]

So most watch collectors. I have one, a moonwatch.

[Host]

That's like a staple, right?

[Jason Liu]

It's a staple. You just have to have one. Right. And Omega did a really good job in selecting materials and in making accurate watches and really things that could stand up to the test of NASA when the others couldn't. So a lot of the watchmakers, other brands that we talked about put in their offerings, but Omega 1, that one.

[Host]

That's cool. Which mainstream watch brand are you the most impressed with, quality wise?

[Jason Liu]

So let's call what is mainstream. I love Patek. A lot of people argue how is that mainstream. I think they're a staple of the holy trinity and well deserved. Like any watch collector. I do have Rolex and they are what I call tool watches. But not in a negative sense. Is that out there. I will take anywhere, jump off a mountain with it and I know it's just gonna keep on going.

[Host]

They call it a daily, right?

[Jason Liu]

It's a daily. Yeah. And I don't. There's no reason you can't daily one of our watches. But you know what? I want to take it to the shooting range and do machine gun fire with it.

[Host]

No, not with this.

[Jason Liu]

I prefer you didn't. But it's, you know, I don't know that it will break. But I haven't tested that yet. We haven't done machine gun test. Would this survive underwater 50 meters? So it will probably a light swim.

[Host]

50 meters.

[Jason Liu]

But I wouldn't. But the idea is 50 meters. People say, well, I'm not going to dive to 50 meters. The idea is behind water resistance ratings is the case is actually we rate at. We advertise 30 meters. The case is rated at 50.

[Host]

Got it.

[Jason Liu]

And the reason is it's 50 meters of pressure in motion. So all the seals under there, when you're actually moving your arms underwater, you actually can generate more force than 50 meters.

[Host]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason Liu]

And so that's how it's rated. So you really to see truly water resistant, swimmable is 60 meters. You know, I've. Have I taken mine swimming with a rubber strap?

[Host]

Yes, that's.

[Jason Liu]

But I, but I. We do it because I know a guy who can replace it. But yeah, for warranty purposes we say 30.

[Host]

That makes sense. You got guys that could fix these everywhere yet or no.

[Jason Liu]

So because it's a proven known architecture, some of our components are proprietary. So for example, if you were to throw generic Swiss parts in it, it's not going to look the same. So even our gears, if you look at the gears, all our gears are beveled, all our gears are grained, all our gears are galvanic treated by hand in Texas.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jason Liu]

And so even if we procure the parts, by and large, most of them are then transformed in the United States. That's really why we have that claim is that about 80, 70 to 80% of our content and people say is it 70 or 80? How do you do the math on it? So we think it's some arbit subjectively somewhere there.

[Host]

Hopefully you'll be able to keep up with demand. These look pretty intense to make, man.

[Jason Liu]

It's been fantastic. It's been a fantastic ride since launch.

[Host]

Nice. When did you launch?

[Jason Liu]

We launched in December.

[Host]

We did a. Oh, so three months ago.

[Jason Liu]

About three months.

[Host]

Wow. Brand new.

[Jason Liu]

We've been doing this for about, we've been building them for about two years.

[Host]

Right.

[Jason Liu]

It takes time to come up with design.

[Host]

Right.

[Jason Liu]

We launched and we're close to sold out on some of our collections.

[Host]

Dang. Well done, man. Because this is not an easy industry.

[Jason Liu]

It's a tough industry. But you know, if what we're feel blessed is that I think we got in the right time where made or the high amount American content is something that the market generally craves. We sought a lot of feedback, both positive and negative on our designs and so we put it out. Not everything was a hit, but what we've put out so far has been really, really, really well received.

[Host]

That's smart that you were getting feedback on the designs before you made them into real products.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. Well, this was not a road without failure. I have a R and we call it the R and D box.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

It is a graveyard of parts that we tried that probably some people could say what were you thinking? And maybe my answer is I wasn't. Yeah, it looked good to us, but not too many, so.

[Host]

Well, coming up with design can't be easy. I mean, because you got to think of something that hasn't been done before, but also that people would want.

[Jason Liu]

And the fact that every single time we try something, it has a high cost. You figure every single one of those is manufactured for us.

[Host]

Right.

[Jason Liu]

And I can't just buy one. Usually if I'm begging a machine shop to make 10, 15, and then if I throw. If we decide after the first one we don't want it, we throw away 15.

[Host]

Damn. Yeah. That ain't cheap.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. And then when we put it in production. Right. We're ordering hundreds.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, what's the next step here? You're about to sell out of everything. What's next?

[Jason Liu]

So we have a. That timepiece that you got is kind of a halfway prototype. You actually, if you look on the back of that, I think it's serial 000 on the very top.

[Host]

On the top.

[Jason Liu]

On the balance bridge. One of the parts that's spinning.

[Host]

Oh, on this part. Yeah. Yeah, I see that.

[Jason Liu]

So Obviously we don't sell. 0,000 to anyone. So that one is halfway in between. There's. There's a model we're coming out. I think we're going to call it pure. And the idea is that it's going to take us a little bit more of a nod towards traditional watchmaking. So there's another timepiece I'm giving one of your colleagues, Charlie.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

And that one was one of my first timepieces. That one is serial 0,000.

[Host]

Damn.

[Jason Liu]

Of. That was my personal timepiece.

[Host]

Quadruple 0.

[Jason Liu]

Quadruple 0. That was. All the prototypes are some versions of 0, but an earlier timepiece than that. So that one's a little rougher. Finished. That one was my personal watch. That one's the one that went swimming. But those in both of those have. You'll see when you open that one. That one has. I don't want to say it's cruder, but it had more skeletonization. But this one is going to be a little bit more nod towards artisanal workmanship, where you'll see on the gears on yours that you can see the way the light reflects off. With snailing. We have a higher focus on playing with light. Look at doing watchmaking, and it's more pure form. So that's why we're calling it pure.

[Host]

Yeah, I love that. Do you have A personal favorite watch.

[Jason Liu]

So I personally wear. I'm wearing one piece right here. There's two versions here of the art or personal piece. I love the skeletons, but that was like a labor of love. We were having a lot of problems with the dials with these because they're so complex. You can take a look at this. This one's fully hand engraved.

[Host]

Wow. God damn.

[Jason Liu]

And this is another one. And this one's got even more serious engraving in it.

[Host]

Dude. Holy crap.

[Jason Liu]

And those are hand engraved by a colleague of ours in Indiana. All done by Americans.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jason Liu]

If you look at the level of engraving on that is insane.

[Host]

Dude. This is nuts.

[Jason Liu]

Days and days of engraving, so detailed. Yeah. And so we believe that is the lowest fully handed of high end watches. That's the lowest price fully engraved movement watch.

[Host]

How much is this one?

[Jason Liu]

$3,000. Dude, that's 2900.

[Host]

I haven't heard of anything close to that price.

[Jason Liu]

And so that's personally. Because of the amount of work that goes into these. Yeah, I see what goes. There's a lot of work that goes to the skeletonization of that. But I'll be honest, I don't personally have the skills to engrave like that. Not very well. You can see that and your audience will probably be able to see it on the B roll, but it's, it's, it's impressive.

[Host]

No, that thing was spinning fast.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah. And I just. So to me, that's, I. Even though the, the back of the watch is not on the front of the watch, I like sitting there sometimes and just looking at the way the light reflects on.

[Host]

Yeah. The way that was moving. Yeah. I wouldn't even wear it. I would just be looking at it. That's a beautiful piece right there.

[Jason Liu]

That's. That's why we love it.

[Host]

Yeah. For me, the skeleton AP is like my dream watch.

[Jason Liu]

It's one of my. It was on my collection.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

Now it's strange, when you become a watchmaker, you. You feel guilty wearing other people's watches.

[Host]

Plus you can make yourself. And for a fifth of the price.

[Jason Liu]

You can try. I can try. But it's not that I don't crave to wear some of my other timepieces. As a watch guy, you always, you admire other watches.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jason Liu]

You feel guilty.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. There's some cool ones. Have you seen Jacob and Co's watches? Some of those are nuts.

[Jason Liu]

The space one or the Bugatti one?

[Host]

Yeah. Like that must be insane to make. I can't imagine.

[Jason Liu]

Yeah, the price is pretty insane. You can have your, your condo and, and, and then some vacation spot or your.

[Host]

Jacob yeah, you want a house or a watch.

[Jason Liu]

That's right.

[Host]

That's where Pateks are going to now too. Some of Those are like two 300k.

[Jason Liu]

300K or even a good, even some of the base Pateks you can pick between your S class Mercedes or.

[Host]

Yeah, for real. Jason it's been awesome, man. Where could people look more into this and potentially buy one?

[Jason Liu]

1776 atelier.com A T L I check.

[Host]

Out the site, guys. I can't wait to wear this around. I'll take some photos in it. Stay tuned and I'll see you guys next time.