I Dropped Out… And It Changed Everything | Warren Smith | DSH #1913

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary

"I Dropped Out… And It Changed Everything" | Warren Smith | DSH #1913

Published: April 12, 2026
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Warren Smith (Content creator, former teacher, filmmaker)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Sean Kelly welcomes Warren Smith, a content creator recently recognized with a shout-out from President Trump, to discuss his journey from teaching to internet prominence, the pragmatic realities of social media success, the fractures within right-wing politics, the impact of postmodernism in higher education and media, and the logic of critical thinking. The conversation traverses Warren’s personal story of risk and resilience, sharp cultural critique, and practical advice for content creators and thinkers—all woven through with anecdotes about the modern American landscape.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Warren’s Transition: From Teaching to Social Media

• Journey to Content Creation ([01:16]–[02:20])

  • Warren began content creation while still teaching, leveraging his background in filmmaking.
  • He committed to content full-time when an unexpected ‘door opened’ (a burst in online engagement) and his school distanced themselves from him.
  • Quote: “It would have been foolish to not at least just see where it would take me.” (Warren, [01:41])
  • The initial phase was financially unstable; he struggled to match his modest teaching salary (~$3,000/month).

• Financial Anxiety & Growth ([02:20]–[03:04])

  • For six months, Warren wasn’t sure he could sustain himself through content.
  • Both he and Sean shared initial struggles earning enough from their online ventures.

• Leveraging Skills for New Media ([03:26]–[04:13])

  • Teaching’s early end times gave Warren space to develop scripts and screenwriting projects.
  • Prior experience with camera equipment and storytelling gave him a head start.

2. Debate, Conflict, and Political Content

• Entertainment & “Verbal Chess” ([04:23]–[05:58])

  • Warren analyzes debates more than debates himself—what interests him most is the underlying dynamics.
  • Conflict, he notes, is not inherently negative and is key to engagement, both in storytelling and online content.
  • Quote: “The central law of narrative is that conflict drives story... Conflict’s not a bad thing.” (Warren, [04:48])
  • Media figures like Piers Morgan use engineered conflict for engagement (“almost the Jerry Springer of politics”).

• Current Political Fractures ([06:15]–[09:18])

  • Discussion of right-wing divisions: war with Iran, infighting within MAGA, influence of Turning Point, Fuentes, Candace Owens, and others.
  • Warren is cautious about firm public stances on sensitive geopolitical events.
  • Quote: “If it’s the best move, it is your responsibility to take it… but we don’t know the full game.” (Warren, [07:09])
  • Observations on how political groups remain divided and on persistent impeachment talk.

3. Trump’s Second Term & Policy Opinions

• Immigration & Tariffs ([10:47]–[12:57])

  • Smith and Kelly discuss Trump’s immigration actions and the impact of tariffs on the US economy.
  • Warren provides historical perspective: pre-16th Amendment, tariffs comprised 60% of federal revenue.
  • Quote: “Tariffs accounted for like 60% of the government’s revenue... until the 16th amendment.” (Warren, [11:08])

• Taxation Frustrations ([12:20]–[13:15])

  • Warren laments his effective 30% income tax, even as a teacher: “I paid 30% of my income... as soon as you get above a certain threshold.”
  • Both advocate for lower, possibly zero, income tax if possible.

4. The Higher Education Problem

• Dysfunction of Modern Colleges ([14:16]–[19:09])
  • Both host and guest dropped out of college; Sean left Rutgers after failing required pre-calc for marketing.
  • Warren critiques required curricula unrelated to degrees and the ideological drift in higher-ed.
  • Postmodernism’s prevalence: “You are literally being told that there are no objective standards... everything is open for interpretation.” (Warren, [15:56])
  • Questioning whether college actually delivers economic value for today’s students.

5. The Broken Film Industry and Unions

• Union Rules, Rising Costs, and IP Recycling ([22:03]–[27:19])

  • Warren is pessimistic about filmmaking: union practices and forced equality measures lead to inflated costs and deter innovation.
  • Example: Writers Guild mandates five writers if not done solo—artificial, not organic, needs.
  • Quote: “Anytime you artificially manipulate these processes... it will implode given enough time.” (Warren, [23:22])
  • Hollywood’s risk aversion leads to endless remakes, recycled IP, and a lack of originality.

• Cultural Changes: Postmodernism ([27:19]–[29:10])

  • Postmodern relativism weakens storytelling by rejecting archetypes and objective standards, prioritizing constructed social values.
  • Warren traces this cultural drift to the 1960s’ intellectual movements and their enduring impact on today’s academic and administrative class.

6. Education: DEI, Tenure, and International Enrollment

• Ideological Capture in Academia ([30:03]–[33:00])

  • Tenure encourages stagnancy; post-protest environments push DEI and subjective evaluation.
  • Students accused faculty of racism, forcing the administration to prioritize “lived experiences” over objective standards.

• Internationalization of U.S. Colleges ([33:54]–[36:19])

  • Warren observes that his graduate program was overwhelmingly (70%) Chinese international students, attracted for their higher tuition.
  • Debates whether public universities should prioritize citizens, especially when reliant on taxpayer funds.

7. Self-Directed Learning, Critical Thinking & Warren’s Next Steps

• Alternatives to College ([36:38]–[38:13])

  • For creative/entrepreneurial careers, targeted online workshops and direct experience beat $60,000/year degrees.
  • Colleges profit from “professional study” courses open to non-students for a fraction of degree cost.

• Critical Thinking Book ([38:20]–[44:27])

  • Warren previews his upcoming book: A Mind of Your Own: Unlocking the Power of Critical Thinking (coming August).
  • Stresses the importance of logic, narrative law, and thinking several steps ahead—skills gleaned from debate and filmmaking.
  • Quote: “There’s nothing more powerful than being grounded in... the logic.” (Warren, [42:12])

• Debate as Verbal Chess ([40:46]–[41:37])

  • On interviewing/debating controversial figures: “The best debaters... They are looking... very closely in those first minutes to figure out what is this interaction going to look like.”

• Mastering Emotional Stability in Debate ([42:40]–[43:40])

  • True confidence and composure come from accumulated life experience, not acting: “You’ve got to become it before you can be it.” (Warren, [42:48])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Taxes: “I paid 30% of my income... as soon as you get above a certain threshold.” (Warren Smith, [12:20])
• On Conflict & Engagement: "The central law of narrative is that conflict drives story... It’s the same for engagement and everything." (Warren Smith, [04:48])
• On College: “You are literally being told that there are no objective standards... everything is open for interpretation.” (Warren Smith, [15:56])
• On Unions: “Anytime you artificially manipulate these processes... it will implode given enough time.” (Warren Smith, [23:22])
• On Critical Thinking: “There’s nothing more powerful than being grounded in... the logic.” (Warren Smith, [42:12])
• On Debate Style: “Keep it about the logic and not the person.” (Warren Smith, [41:49])
• On Emotional Control: “You’ve got to become it before you can be it.” (Warren Smith, [42:48])

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Suggested Timestamps

• [01:16] – Warren's pivot to content and the risks of leaving teaching
• [04:48] – The centrality of conflict in narrative and debate
• [07:09] – The challenges of forming political opinions without full information
• [12:20] – Warren’s reflections on tax burdens
• [15:56] – Postmodernism and the loss of objective standards in education
• [23:22] – How union rules sabotage the film industry from within
• [27:19] – The rise of postmodernism in storytelling and academia
• [33:54] – The influx of international students and its implications
• [38:20] – Warren’s upcoming book and the art of critical thinking
• [42:12] – Logic as the key to being “unstoppable” in debate
• [42:48] – Becoming emotionally resilient through life experience

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Tone & Style Assessment

The episode is frank, direct, and analytical, marked by Warren’s pragmatic storytelling, willingness to critique entrenched systems, and Sean’s curiosity and shared entrepreneurial perspective. The tone alternates between candid self-reflection and critical examination of broader cultural dynamics, always anchored by a focus on logic, narrative, and personal development.

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Conclusion

Listeners will emerge with a nuanced understanding of Warren Smith’s journey from educator to viral commentator, the underlying mechanics of today’s online debate spaces, the structural problems hollowing out higher education and Hollywood, and the vital importance of logic and critical thinking. The conversation is wide-ranging but thematically focused, offering both personal inspiration and incisive cultural critique.

Transcript

[Warren Smith]

That's crazy. I paid 30% of my income. I don't even want to know what the number is. But yeah, as soon as you get above like a certain threshold, it gets to kicks into 30%. It's crazy to think about what the economy looked like prior to 1916. It was unconstitutional to have direct taxes.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, guys, here with Warren Smith Today, the man just got shouted out by President Trump. Caught it Catching him at a good time. What's up, Warren?

[Warren Smith]

Hey, how are you? Thanks for having me.

[Podcast Host]

Congrats on that shout out by Trump. Was that pretty unexpected for you?

[Warren Smith]

It was unexpected, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I saw your reaction video to the State of the Union address and it's crazy to see that get to his desk. Do you know how that happened?

[Warren Smith]

I have no idea. It was probably when it was just his staff. I doubt he saw it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's nuts. Well, congrats. I know you've been doing a lot of content lately. This is your full time thing now. I saw your appearance on Crowder as well and thought it was a really good episode. So it's cool to see you blowing up, man. Did you expect taken off on social media like this?

[Warren Smith]

No, did not. No.

[Podcast Host]

Seems like a whole different world than your previous life, right?

[Warren Smith]

Yes, it is very different.

[Podcast Host]

Did you have a methodical plan? Like was this all planned out after you left your job, your teaching job, or got fired?

[Warren Smith]

No, it was an opportunity presented itself and I had. I was already really interested in content. My background was in filmmaking and producing and so I had always been doing that. But. And then suddenly that there was some fuel to it. This door kind of opens and it would have been foolish to not at least just see where it would take me.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Warren Smith]

And that's kind of what inevitably snowballed and caused them, I think, to get rid of me. And then it was like, well, I going to do my best. And it was scary for a while because I was like at that point I had like 50,000 less than 50,000 subscribers. So that was not financially viable. Right. And so it was definitely for like six months. I was. It was very nerve wracking.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. So for six months you didn't know if it would work, basically?

[Warren Smith]

No, no, it was looking back on it. I don't know. It's crazy to look back on like what was I going to do financially? I mean, I was just trying to. Trying to make what I was as a teacher, which was very low already. I was getting paid like after deductions in health insurance and all that was. It was three. About $3,000 a month, like, you're supposed to be. I was. Your paycheck says, oh, you're going to get 50,000 around a little bit less, but it's. What's in your bank account is actually like 3,000amonth. So I was like, if I can just make 3,000amonth, I'll be doing what I was doing, so I shouldn't panic. But even that was like, I don't know how I'm going to make 3,000amonth.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, that's tough on social media, to be honest. I think my first six months of the podcast, I lost, like, a hundred grand. I wasn't making three grand a month. It's really hard to get to that level for some reason, you know?

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, it is very difficult to grow.

[Podcast Host]

So you were living off 3k a month. Like, was that even covering your mortgage, your food, all your expenses?

[Warren Smith]

I mean, it was covering it, but at the end of the year, you don't really have much in the bank. You're not saving anything. It's. So I was always kind of like, I've got to. I can't do this my whole life. You know, it's a great job. And it. One of the perks of that job teaching is that it allows you. I mean, you're out of school at, like, 2 or 3, so it allows you a lot of opportunity and time to try and find some other endeavor. So I was always, like, screenwriting and. Yeah. Writing basically and working on projects. And so it kind of inevitably, when that door did open, I had the infrastructure in place, all this camera stuff. I mean, I was already doing all that, so I was very fortunate in that regard.

[Podcast Host]

And were you watching a lot of political content after work as well?

[Warren Smith]

I really enjoy, like, the people that I've been talking to and those shows like Crowder and stuff. Like, I had been watching their stuff for a long time, so it is surreal to get to talk to them.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Crowder's been around for a while, and now you're getting more into debates, it seems like. Was. Was that something you kind of decided on doing more of?

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. Honestly, I don't consider myself a debater. A lot of the content is analyzing debates. I mean, it's what interests me is the most is the verbal chess game, the underlying dynamics. And often that becomes really apparent in debate. So it makes for good content.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Warren Smith]

Like, when I first started doing this in this, I set up this space with another teacher, the music teacher, and he would sit off camera and we would just have conversations. But conflict, the central law of narrative is that conflict drives story. It's the same for engagement and everything. If there's no conflict. And conflict's not a bad thing. We think of conflict as a negative, but it just means like the hero's journey. The hero has to have obstacles there. There needs to be some. There's. Otherwise, there's no dynamic. And so he would sit there and we would. And he had a very different point of view. And I never thought of it as debates. I still don't like with Brian. I guess those are debates, but I wouldn't. I've never thought of myself as a debater, a formal debater at all.

[Podcast Host]

I would say it's branched into more entertainment like Piers Morgan style. It comes to debating these days. That's how it seems to get a lot of views, you know,

[Warren Smith]

like in general on YouTube, that kind of show.

[Podcast Host]

You mean like when it comes to these political debates that I see clips of or whatever, it seems like, like Pierce Morgan, his clips where people are just screaming or they're.

[Warren Smith]

Well, his producers know that rule inside and out.

[Podcast Host]

They're.

[Warren Smith]

They take conflict drives engagement kind of to another level, almost the Jerry Springer of politics, in a way. It's. They. They capitalize on that. They understand. That's why they assemble their panels in order to have conflict. Otherwise, like they know what they're doing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. 100. Speaking of politics, have. Have you given your stance on the whole war with Iran yet? Are you kind of still in the research phase it up?

[Warren Smith]

I mean, for me, I was talking to Crowder a bit about this. It's a very complex issue, and it's difficult for me to have a conclusive stance given that I don't know what the actual classified information is or what the plan is. And I understand there's a lot of criticism that's valid. I totally get that right now. If I had to summarize it, I'm probably leaning as towards as a move on the chessboard. They were presented this move of opportunity. I mean, it is pretty remarkable to be able to take out the head honcho in the first day and then all the subsequent leaders in the second, third day, it could spiral into something else. But if you were to present us like we can do this move and accomplish this thing within a few days, granted, it might become something more than that. I could understand the argument where it's like, if you're the president or in government, it's your responsibility to make these decisions, whether if it's the right move on the chessboard. If it's the best move, it is your responsibility to take it. And a lot of people are going to look at it from all these different perspectives and be like, but I don't know the full game. And it's like, yep, we don't. We don't. It's difficult to.

[Podcast Host]

We might not ever know.

[Warren Smith]

Right. Well, not the classified fully, but I'm sure more will come to light. Like Hindsight will become 2020. I think that's kind of part of their strategy is they understand like that we don't have to. It gets frustrating for us. I understand as the aud. The people, but they don't have to explain it. In a way they're just kind of acting and letting the. Hopefully it'll be the. They let the results speak and then it becomes clear to us like. But they are talk. They are laying it out. It seems like Marco Rubio is breaking it down. It's. It makes sense what, what he's saying. I understand the criticism the, though.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it, it does seem like we'll have to wait and see on that one. It does seem to be dividing the base right now, the MAGA base, either way. Have you been seeing that on social media?

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, it's to be. Yeah, it's definitely going to for sure.

[Podcast Host]

It seems like the right's very fractured right now with all the issues going on with the files, with. With Turning Point, with this war. So I want to see how things play out.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's where I've noticed on Twitter, though, like, Fuentes is kind of leading an arm. Candace is leading her. Her arm. Turning Points got their own thing. But right now it does seem really divided. Would you agree with that?

[Warren Smith]

Yes. Yeah. In terms of. There's a lot of disagreement. You know, it would be divide. It's divided in the sense of people that are actually like against people that voted for Trump and now they're. I guess. I guess that would be Fuentes. I haven't looked at his recent comments, but if they're actively like he should be impeached, maybe Dave Smith, that kind of. Yeah, there's a. Definitely a divide in perspectives.

[Podcast Host]

Trump did say he believes if the midterms are lost, he will. They will try to impeach him. Do you think that's going to happen?

[Warren Smith]

The midterms are lost? I mean, I think they're always going to try and impeach him, regardless. Yeah. If they have the power to impeach him, they'll definitely. They'll follow through. On it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. How have you felt overall about his second term so far? I know there's a lot of different factors, but his approval, yeah, there's definitely mistakes.

[Warren Smith]

I think there's definitely things I look at, I'm like, oh man, I wish you hadn't said that. This could have been handled better. But overall, I, I, what would the alternative be? I don't regret because I voted for him. And so given that binary decision, I do think it was the best move on the chessboard at that time.

[Podcast Host]

Same.

[Warren Smith]

There's a lot of good that's, yeah, there's a lot of good that's come out of it.

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[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

Let's go. Yeah, he did well with immigration. Right. With the border and that was the main.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. Bringing it down to. It's not completely zero. I mean from my understanding looking at the fact checks from NPR and whatnot. But it's, that's, it's the most secure border probably in my lifetime.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, probably with mine too. Yeah. What about the tariffs? You think he did well with those?

[Warren Smith]

The tariffs are really interesting. I've been researching that a bit more and it's, it's crazy to think about what the economy looked like prior to 8 or to 1916. Tariffs accounted for like 60% of the government's revenue. Excise taxes and tariffs.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Warren Smith]

Was how the government funded themselves and until the 16th amendment around 1915. Something in there when it was before that point it was unconstitutional to have direct taxes on personal income and we forget that. And I do think that there is this because everyone has forgot it. They look at the side, they, they look at what he's proposing and it does sound Alien to us. And it is going to be a bumpy road, but I think that he is striving for like radically, ideally bringing down income taxes. And it's a, it's just such a fundamental restructuring. It is going to be radical.

[Podcast Host]

I hope he pulls that off, man. I'm in Nevada. No state income tax, but obviously federal is still pretty high. Yeah, I'm spoiled over here, man. Oh, you didn't know that?

[Warren Smith]

No. That's crazy. I paid 30% of my income.

[Podcast Host]

What? Holy crap. That's hot.

[Warren Smith]

Because of. Yeah, because the, the income bracket I fall into now. It's. But even as a teacher, it was still pretty high. I mean, I was, I was paying probably like $10,000 maybe probably less than that a year now. I don't even want to know what the number is, but yeah, as soon as you get above like a certain threshold, it gets to kicks into 30%.

[Podcast Host]

Oh my God. That's insane. That's insanity. So what would an ideal rate be for you, you think? What percentage would you ideal?

[Warren Smith]

Zero. I mean, like, I don't know what the number it would need to be to be actually sustainable financially for the government, but as low as possible would be great.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I think everyone agrees on that. I hope that taxes are too high. I hope everyone agrees on that. I'm not sure with liberals.

[Warren Smith]

Well, it seems the people that are like, absolutely. That are strongly against the concept of tariffs. They are, they're kind of arguing for taxation in, in a way it's like, like what is the alternative model? It would be increasing some form of tariffs and doing this restructuring.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, we'll see. And if the economy doesn't do well, Trump will get the blame and then they'll figure out a way to blame the tariffs. And it's just a never ending cycle. Right. They'll always find a reason to blame them.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. And I think Trump just does not care because he's not up for reelection. I think that's one of the reasons that he's not too worried is about optics like he was in his first term.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. What do you see as the, the biggest issues right now that people should be focusing on? A lot of people have different answers. Some people say AI, some people say getting Israel out of politics. But what do you think people should be focusing on?

[Warren Smith]

Well, I mean, my personal preferences are around the college structure in higher education. That's a big one. I wouldn't say it's like. That's a good question.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's a deep one, but I mean Coming from your background, that answer makes sense too, because you got to experience that system firsthand.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, just the way it plays out. It's just. Oh.

[Podcast Host]

I lasted five months at college. I went to Rutgers in Jersey.

[Warren Smith]

Where were you studying?

[Podcast Host]

Very woke. I tried to get in for business and marketing, but I couldn't. You had to pass pre calculus for some reason.

[Warren Smith]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

Which is really dumb. Yeah. So I couldn't pass that class, so I ended up dropping out and starting a business.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, that's crazy. Me neither. I don't have a mind for mathematics. I'm really interested by mathematics. I wish I could. That's crazy that they would require that for the.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, there's a lot of silly things like that for various programs where you have to pass a certain class that isn't related at all to that, to what you care about to get in. Makes no sense at all. But I did not have a good experience just in college system, very liberal campus in Jersey. So hopefully they could fix that for sure. I agree with you on that.

[Warren Smith]

I don't know how they're going to fix it though.

[Podcast Host]

You don't think it's possible in our lifetime?

[Warren Smith]

I mean, it's possible, but I don't see. I don't see anytime soon it happening.

[Podcast Host]

What would have to happen? Is it the donations from certain groups influence.

[Warren Smith]

It would have to be the ideological component around postmodernism, which people, many people don't even know what postmodernism is. It just seeps through. Like Jordan Peterson was right, that that is at the core of so much like. So in graduate school, for example. Okay, Warren, you're required to take modern art. Well, how could postmodernism even seep into modern art? But here you are literally being told that there are no objective standards, objective truths. There's no. Everything is open for interpretation. The banana peel nailed to the wall is equally as beautiful as the statue. David. And that's actually an ideology ties into a much larger ideology. And so it. It literally is the driving force. I mean, we're just looking at one component of it, right? Objective truth and all that. But it's just this. You are valid and affirming one's state where you are now rather than pursuing another standard, you know, so would.

[Podcast Host]

Would the solution for now be to. If you have kids, for example, to send them to an alternative learning system, private school or something else.

[Warren Smith]

If you could afford it. If you can. Honestly, like my experience, because I. In public schools, the. If the ideology is. I'm more concerned about the college Level with the ideology seeping in because there's no defense, there's no parents to push back. It's different in that way. In high schools, if it gets that crazy, there's usually some course of action. Yeah, it's bad, but. So you don't necessarily need to go to private school. It's the question around college. It's really, do you need it?

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Warren Smith]

And it's just tough because our entire business market has structured around this. Oh, you have the credential or not? So the incentive is there. It's very frustrating.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I wish I knew more stats on if it was worth it for more people or not. For me personally and all the people I know, they. They don't value college at all, to be honest. Like literally at all. All the entrepreneurs I know, they either dropped out or graduated reluctantly and they're doing just fine. But I'm also in a bubble, which I realized. So I know that's not the norm for 99% of people, but I'd love to see some stats on if college actually helped a majority of people, you know, get better jobs, make more money.

[Warren Smith]

I suspect the majority would be no. But it's going to also depend on what discipline or area you're trying to go into. Like as an entrepreneur, what would you study in college exactly? There's certain things you can study. Yeah. But a lot of this, honestly, it's. It's. You're studying other things and there. It's just kind of noise.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Warren Smith]

I think what would you study as an entrepreneur? I mean, how to structure LLCs and get. Let's just like. But you can learn all that or study it and you can learn it in a very short period of time. Like the bones of it. Like with filmmaking, which my background is in, like I teach a film class that's very. I mean, I think we. It's five classes really. Like four informational. The last one is the workshop and in those four sessions there are three hours each. We can cover pretty much everything you need to know. Like the bones or the bare bones of filmmaking. And. And I try to go in also as to the business aspect, the business side of it, which is entrepreneurial and talk about how to. The pitfalls of distribution and how to get through these negotiations and not get ripped off. So there's certain. Those kind of things are very helpful to learn. But many of these disciplines are just not the hard. I don't even know what the word. The hard business practices. It's just theory, which is fun and flowery. And but it's not, it's just, it's not worth the money you're paying for it.

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That's SelectQuote.com DSH Agreed. I also think a lot of it's outdated. Like I was going for marketing for example. I do remember in one of the classes they were talking about running ads in newspapers and radio and I was

[Warren Smith]

like laughing and it's the same with filmmaking because we're talking about like prints and ads for marketing your movie and it's just complete. It's all social media now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Warren Smith]

And the distributor is not even going to be. They don't have the capacity usually to crank out the social media because social media doesn't work that way. It's very dependent upon like your profile. It has different weight. It's just absolutely everything has changed.

[Podcast Host]

Are you still optimistic about the future of the filmmaking industry? Do you see AI disrupting that space a lot?

[Warren Smith]

I mean it'll disrupt. I'm very not optimist. I'm the opposite of optimistic when it comes to the film industry. Primarily because it is structured around antiquated systems with the unions which self sabotage drive up production costs which decreases the amount number of productions. Like right now is the hardest time it's ever been to make a living in the film industry. If you're working camera or crew which is a gig to Gig economy, which is why I went to graduate school. After doing that for a while, I realized this is. I don't want to do this my whole life. And I realized just, it can be chaos and there's just not much security. And also academia appealed to me in other ways, but there's so many flaws to it and so many foolish business practices that you're not allowed to question. It's the perfect metaphor, in a way, for the same pattern playing out in so many other areas in life where I cannot get through to people in the union because they are shoulder to shoulder. No, I'm in this tribe, and you're not allowed to question it. It's very strange. And I'm like, well, would you like to have a debate and. Or a conversation about it? They won't do it. I'm just. Yeah, it was really after. After the strikes, I tried to. I made a video about it and it really pissed people off. Like on. I was very small still, but it was when I was building this, and I remember that distinctly because it was just so nonsensical to me. I was like, don't you guys see, like, you're driving up the production costs? Like the demands that you are making, for example, to write a movie if one person writes it. Okay, fine, yeah, so, Warren, you can go write it. But if you want to have two people. No, you can't have two people. You have to have five. There's a mandated five writers to now write it. It's one or five. It's not what the actual process demands. And anytime you. You artificially manipulate these processes and it's just like equity. And you try and force through a structure that's not organically or what it actually needs to be. It's not driven by necessity. It will implode given enough time. That's my theory.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. I did not know all that was going on. Yeah, I remember those strikes during, I think, the pandemic, but I never followed up to see what happened afterwards. So what ended up happening with those strike writer strikes? Right?

[Warren Smith]

They just. Yeah, they lock arms and they push through demands just similar to equality of outcome that is not going to occur naturally or on its own. Because that. And if. If you have to force through an outcome that's not going to otherwise occur, you're. Something is off. You really need to look at that. Because the question you need to answer is, why would this not occur otherwise? Why do we have to force this through? Why do. Why do we have to force through five writers for this Movie it's or in representation in. Well, you need this many representations of this many races to qualify for these awards. You find it all through the business practices. And then when you question it, the response you get is this is how. Even when you question foolish business practices like, well, why do we have to. Like only the people in the props union are able to pick up the pencil because that is a prop. But I have to wait for the guy to come on radio, walk down and move the pencil when I'm right here. And I could do it. Yeah, but you're not in that union. You're in Grip and Electric, whatever it is. And if you question that process, you know, you don't understand where. And this is how it's always been done. This is the industry standard. And you're going to find that regardless of what industry you're in, you'll come across that in some capacity. And that's why I think what fostered my interest in kind of critical thinking but questioning the industry standard the way it always is, because you will find over and over again these practices that don't make sense. They're not rational and people just do it anyways.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And you could see it in the quality of the films now in Hollywood, everything just feels like the same. Everything's so predictable. It's almost like they're following a script.

[Warren Smith]

Right? Yeah. And this goes back to that idea of postmodernism, how it has infected this. Because in postmodernism there are no eternal archetypes are solely the result of what we have been conditioned to value. According to them. It's the opposite view that these archetypes resonate with something deeply ingrained within us. It's already there. It's not a social construct. Postmodernism, everything is a social construct or all our, all our values. And that has just that dynamic has a radical impact on narrative structure. The Snow White, for example, they think that they can now mold it and manipulate it to whatever they want and have it because it has equal value if we say it does.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Warren Smith]

And then you combine that with. Because production costs are rising, they are less likely to take gambles on original ip. So they just keep doubling down on pre established IP for business reasons.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. How long have we been in this post modernism era, in your opinion?

[Warren Smith]

It's a good question. I probably. I did not notice it until arriving at graduate school, but it was. Which was 2016, but it was law. It had to have been before then. But I wasn't paying attention to. Was just the way it was, I never thought to question it. And then once you do start to question it, it's the response that causes you to really see it because you're not allowed to question it. It's. It's the response that's the tell. But it had to have been, I mean, in years leading up to 2016.

[Podcast Host]

2016, yeah. I remember that was when I was in high school. That was like peak cancel culture years around then.

[Warren Smith]

I believe some would argue that it was like the 60s was the turning point that led into this. And there's something to be said for that, because it was that, like my parents generation, they were coming of age in the 60s, and what was happening in the 60s with the Vietnam War and this radical view, this radical change in perspective that did lead to postmodernism came out of France and the intellectual movement. But those are the people, when I talk to them, that are most in lockstep with this worldview. It's that generation that were high school in the 60s experienced. Yeah. And so there's something there that. Because then they're the ones running the administrations at the colleges and they were. They're. They're starting to phase out, but they were in control for a very long time. And that's when things have gotten really bad.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Yeah. I don't see a way out. I think it's ingrained everywhere in culture and in films and universities. I could see why people are living off grid and building bunkers now.

[Warren Smith]

We would have to get rid of tenure as well. It's just a really bad business model. It's another one like we were just talking about unions. You, who wouldn't want to never be able to get fired. And I understand the sentiment behind tenure meaning you can't get rid of professors. It's meant for them to be able to push the boundaries of their disciplines because that's where innovation is supposed to occur. But what you see, and I've literally have witnessed this over and over again, is you have antiquated professors who don't know what the new technology is and how these practices are changing like you were just talking about. And they're just kind of checked out and they're just going through the motions to get a paycheck. They don't have a reason to care or be pushing the boundaries in a way. So it kind of backfires. It's just not a. And again, it's like forcing through something that would not naturally occur. It's artificially forcing through something.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I wonder what the alternative would be to tenure. Because I know a lot of teachers that get paid more every year. They stay on. So they want to be working as long as possible. Right.

[Warren Smith]

It would be like any other business where if you do a good job, you get paid more. And we want this professor because their reputation, they've published or whatever.

[Podcast Host]

And yeah.

[Warren Smith]

And the students are really engaged and their numbers are high and they actually yield results. They're doing research, whatnot. But like, why is that not enough? And then the tenured. It's like there's only so many tenured spots available each year. And then you add on DEI and Equity and it's. And now certain people are being prioritized and people think that's a myth. It's not. It really does occur.

[Podcast Host]

Did you have to deal with any of that, the DEI stuff when you were teaching?

[Warren Smith]

Yes. So when I first I was graduate student, I was assigned my first class at Emerson to teach screenwriting with undergrads. There was a. In the weeks leading up to it, I was scheduled to start teaching. There's a protest. There's at Emerson College, one of the most left leaning colleges in the world. The students marched into the faculty meeting with placards demanding again, demanding an outcome changes, claiming that Emerson is racist. And they were able to force through the demands and then they were able to terrorize, essentially get the administrators and teachers to feel intimidated and to cower and see to their demands.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Warren Smith]

That's what they did. Yeah. And then we. And I was taking it so to finish that. So I was about to teach and the teacher who was kind of mentoring me in and giving me the class to teach just before the protest, she was like, yeah, Warren, remember, hold the students to account if they don't show up. Just be fair. Give them the grade they deserve. The protest happens. She got named by one of the students as being racist, which is this. And after the protest, she's so coward. She's like, yeah, you remember what I was saying, Warren? I forgot. Compassion. It's really important to factor in their lived experiences because she had been telling me about the student who wasn't showing up to class, wasn't doing any work. She was using that as an example when she was having that first conversation saying, I have this student who isn't showing up. Now I'm going to fail them. You need to do the same thing. Flash forward after the protest, you remember that student I was using as an example? I was so wrong because that student sat down and explained to me how difficult it is to Be black at Emerson.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Warren Smith]

And I was like, so they never show up to class. They don't do anything. But it's so hard to be black at Emerson. So you're not giving them a failing grade, like. And that's how it played.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. That is nuts. So they started making a lot of DEI hires right after that.

[Warren Smith]

No. Already they were doing DEI Hars. There was already a. So an office of Social justice, Literally the Social Justice Center.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Warren Smith]

An office where people are paid a lot of money to do whatever social justice center people do. And that was already in the works and before the protests.

[Podcast Host]

So these kids are saying that's how

[Warren Smith]

the students got to that point where they literally thought they were oppressed. Like, the teachers they're hiring are encouraging this and feeding it and teaching it. And they look around, they see the social. The Social justice center. They see these events held about microaggressions.

[Podcast Host]

Microaggressions. I haven't heard that word in a while. Yeah. It just blows my mind because these students are paying tens of thousands a year in tuition, some of them even more. And they're not getting the highest quality teachers. They're doing it to themselves, though, based off what you're saying.

[Warren Smith]

With that. Yeah, well, the. With the highest quality teachers. I see what you mean. Yes, but. And the well d. In graduate school, I would say, like, 70% of the graduate students in my program were directly from China because they pay more.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Warren Smith]

And no one believes me when I say that. They're like, that can't be real. It was like, literally, I was taking a directing class. Show up to the first class. Every single student was Chinese except me. All right, group up. It's going to be doing these directing exercises you're going to be doing. You're going to be acting out these scenes, and they're all speaking Mandarin. And I was like, I can't. How am I supposed to do this? And I dropped the class because I was like, this is not going to work. And she got real. The teacher got really upset at me for. Not really upset, but there's always that. Yeah. She wasn't happy.

[Podcast Host]

I don't blame you. I mean, if I can't understand what everyone's saying, why would I be there? Wow. I didn't know that was an issue. I did. I know that China does send a lot of people over here for universities, but 70% is insane.

[Warren Smith]

That would be my estimation. I don't have the exact number. From my experience, what I saw, but it was interesting because it Was that was the graduate school undergrad. It was different undergrad. It was less. But it was interesting to note that there were so many in the graduate program. Not quite sure why. The graduate level versus undergrad.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that is interesting. I mean, even if it was 30, 40, 50%, it's still insane. But 70 is crazy.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. Like, why one country? Why is it. I get that China's massive, but like, I. Now and then you would meet a student from another country, like, who was here to study, but it was very strange.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think they should cap the certain countries from, like, attending? Like, do you think it should be a certain amount of students allowed in?

[Warren Smith]

I think you can make a strong case that you can have certain positions for foreign exchange students or students coming over to. But yes, students in your country need colleges to go to. So I think it would be reasonable to say, like, you need to be a. A citizen to be able to attend our universities that are state funded because Emerson is getting taxpayer funds to run. So it's Harvard. So are all these schools, they're getting

[Podcast Host]

some interesting funds, not just from the federal funding. Yeah. That's a whole nother podcast. Yeah. It's a shame, man, because growing up, I really wanted to get into an Ivy League and learn from the best, but now that's not even a thought I have for my future kids. You know, that's where I'm at right now.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. I mean, it just depends what they want to do. I wish I had a better answer because people ask that and it. But it really does depend if you want to go into the sciences, STEM or whatnot. I would give a very different response versus if you want to be a filmmaker. Like, I would not waste money.

[Podcast Host]

Right, right.

[Warren Smith]

It's a. That's. It's a whole. I wouldn't encourage my. A kid to be trying to go into Hollywood today. It's just a failing business model.

[Podcast Host]

But yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. When I say that, I mean in terms of business and entrepreneurship.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, entrepreneurship. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, just go. Go do it. I mean, there's a workshop.

[Podcast Host]

There's so much good information on YouTube or courses you could buy for one tenth of the price. You know what I mean? Like buying. Buying a filmmaking course from you and then starting a podcast like that to me is a better option.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, yeah. And it's weird too, because these colleges, like Emerson offers these professional study courses that anyone can take. You don't have to be a student at Emerson and they offer them online so it's not taking up physical real estate and the teachers can run them from their houses and there's no cap on how many they can run. So I wonder. So other colleges must be doing this and I wonder how many programs do they have running like this? It's just a cash cow for them because the teacher doesn't get the income, they just get a flat fee. And I mean it doesn't cost that much to take. It might cost like 400, 500 bucks for a five week session. There is something to be said for that though because like you just said, you would probably prefer to do something like that. Targeting what you need to learn versus $60,000 a year program.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, absolutely. What, what's next for you? Any debates coming up? Any. Anything you're investigating right now?

[Warren Smith]

I've got a book coming out in August.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, August. About the education system or.

[Warren Smith]

No, about. It's called A mind of your own Unlocking the power of critical thinking. And it's really the lessons that have to help that it's how I do what I do for lack of a better way to express it. But the lessons that have been most impactful for me, even from what I've learned about filmmaking and the laws of narrative and in debate. The idea is that we're constantly in these verbal chess games every day, whether you realize it or not, and applying game theory to that. Things get really interesting. And working with actors, I've learned the importance of non verbal communication and how acting is really not about the words the script is. They're just the tools that we use. The boat floating on the surface, good actors, it's everything beyond the words that differentiate good actors. And that's something that applies to every day and learning the patterns and anticipating the next move. Like we were at the beginning of this conversation, we were talking about is this the right move with Iran? And I don't know the answer, but it's like figuring out what the best move on the chessboard is. And you have to have the wisdom to be able to identify where you're trying to go, determining your goal and yes, epistemology and debate the lessons. Like. Because I've gotten the chance to talk to some of the best debaters working today.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you have. I saw your six hour debate with destiny. I saw that one.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. I mean I've sat down like Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson Crowder, Nick Fuentes, Dave Rubin. It's just, it's crazy. And so I, and I learn a bit from each and then I would reflect on it. And sometimes they are verbal chess games more so than the other ones. Like they. That conflict is higher. Like with Nick. It's. I wouldn't say there's conflict with Nick Fontes, but you're in a chess game whether you. It looks like it or not. And then after it, I think about what were the moves made and I would literally write about it and apply those lessons. It's fun to write.

[Podcast Host]

So, yeah, I can relate to that. When I had Nick on, it did feel like a bit of a dance. He came in person to Vegas and he's very guarded because of how he's been treated, I think. And you got to kind of get his guard down. Right. That was my strategy going into that interview. Were you taking a similar approach?

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, I take it. I get what you mean. Yeah, he's going to be guarded and you can. This is. And the best debaters will do this too. They are looking. They're watching you very closely in those first minutes to figure out what is this interaction going to look like. They're trying to gauge is this person pulling like the Piers Morgan. We saw that interaction where you're trying to win at all costs and prove that my opponent is some caricature or something bad. And that's your goal. And we all do this subconsciously. When you meet someone, when your co workers, you're trying to figure out what the game is that they're playing. So, yeah, he's watching you like a hawk. But if that is genuine and if you are genuine in that it can be. You can disarm that quickly and move into something deeper.

[Podcast Host]

That's always been my goal with the show. I have on both sides of any issue. I try not to have any gotcha moments or anything like that. So I think people have been pretty comfortable. And yeah, that's just been.

[Warren Smith]

I welcome it. You know, like, there's nothing wrong with pointing out logical flaws, but keep it about the logic and not the person. Right.

[Podcast Host]

That's the difference.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah. Like Pierce made the mistake of making it about the person and not the logic. And that's why Fuentus came out on top in that interaction. And I told Pierce that to his face.

[Podcast Host]

I love that. I love how honest you are because you argue based off logic, so it's hard to.

[Warren Smith]

That's how you become unstoppable in that space. Like there's nothing more powerful than being grounded in. In the logic. Because the.

[Podcast Host]

And you.

[Warren Smith]

If there is an audience watching because the odd like archetypes the audience, the logic resonates with them. Even if they don't even know it. They will feel it.

[Podcast Host]

I agree.

[Warren Smith]

They won't miss it. So you've got to try and get as close to that logic foundation as you can.

[Podcast Host]

How did you get to that point? Because, like, you're controlling your emotions. Like, how do you not get fired up when someone like Brian Shapiro attacks you or something like that?

[Warren Smith]

Like, yeah, it. So I'm like 38 now, and it's been through life experiences, leads to demeanor. I summarize it. It's like you've got to. You've got to become it before you can be it. And that's all these life experiences. And I used to be very different. But it's not an act. It's not. It's. It's got to be real. And that's just your demeanor. Like it's. You're not thinking about it at all.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, subconscious.

[Warren Smith]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. It. It forges that subconscious to where. And if you are genuinely have that foundation, if you genuinely have become it and now you can be it, you won't be shaken by someone trying to take you down because you've had. You've been through that so many times and you know it's going to happen so many times again. And it's nothing to be afraid of because you have the logic on your side.

[Podcast Host]

Right. That's how I felt about Charlie Kirk and Steven Crowder. When they debate, they never get riled up.

[Warren Smith]

They're so grounded in the logic. Yeah. And Charlie did that very, very well. Because it's all about thinking it through before it happens. Having that mental model, it's not like recounting a story. It's like what separates liars from people telling the truth. The liar's trying to remember a script. Yes. You're trying to recount, like the facts of your. But the mental model becomes so deeply ingrained with you. If you've actually thought it through over the courses of years and interactions, it becomes forged. It's just there. And it's the logic. It's there. You don't have to remember it like a story.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Well, cool. Can't wait to read your book, man. I'll definitely check it out. Will it be on audible too?

[Warren Smith]

I don't know. You know, like the po. It's available for pre order. They want me to start promoting it like this week to try and get pre orders up so that they can get like Barnes and Nobles and things. So I. I don't. I know. They want to get it out as far as they can, but we'll see.

[Podcast Host]

I would recommend it just because it seems like it's heading more towards audio these days, but I know it's kind of.

[Warren Smith]

I imagine they probably are. I'll ask him though.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but anything else you want to close off with here, Warren? I appreciate your time.

[Warren Smith]

Nope. No worries, man. No, it's. I just. I'm just going day by day, man. I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I love it. Well, I. I'll be brewing for you, man. Good luck with future endeavors. And guys, we'll link his stuff in the description so check him out and I'll see you guys next time. Thanks for watching all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot. Please click here if you want to watch the next episode and please subscribe to the show. It helps us get more guests and helps grow the brand.