Inside Reality TV's Fake World: Former Star Tells All | John Ferguson DSH #990

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Inside Reality TV's Fake World: Former Star Tells All | John Ferguson | DSH #990

Release Date: December 18, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly

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Introduction

In episode #990 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an enlightening conversation with John Ferguson, a former reality TV star and advocate for the little people community. John delves into his personal experiences with reality television, his journey of self-acceptance, and the challenges and triumphs of living as a little person in today’s society.

Early Life and Personal Challenges

Height and Growth [01:20 – 03:12]

John Ferguson opens up about his height, standing at four foot one inches. He recounts the pivotal moment at age eight when he stopped growing, a revelation that profoundly impacted his childhood. John shares:

"When I stopped growing and all my friends like really started growing and they were hitting their growth spurts, I had to look myself in the mirror and realize I am an inch lower than 4 foot 2." ([02:29])

This realization shattered his dreams of playing hockey professionally, particularly in the NHL, and forced him to confront societal expectations and personal aspirations.

Overcoming Adversity [02:30 – 05:30]

John discusses the five-year period following his growth cessation, highlighting his struggle to accept his stature amidst a society that often values height. He emphasizes the importance of leveraging one’s unique attributes to foster happiness and bring joy to others:

"I realized everyone's unique in their own way. You can either be upset with how you are or accept who you are and use it to your advantage." ([02:49])

Reality Television and Media Representation

Reality TV Experiences [00:30 – 05:30, 11:00 – 13:00, 30:10 – 44:00]

John provides a candid critique of reality television, revealing the often scripted and manipulated nature of such shows. Recalling his time on Little People Big World, he shares a humorous anecdote about being asked to re-enter the house as if he were a new arrival:

"They hit me up and said, can you re-enter the house as if you just arrived? I already slept there... My sheets were all over the place because I was already sleeping there. They actually aired it as well, so it's funny." ([00:30])

He further elaborates on the lack of authentic representation for little people in mainstream media, criticizing the limited and stereotypical roles often assigned to them. John expresses concern over the diminishing opportunities for little people in acting as the industry becomes more politically correct:

"As we move into this more politically correct world, little people will not get any acting roles." ([08:35])

Genetics and Family Life

Understanding Dwarfism [05:30 – 07:03]

John delves into the genetic aspects of dwarfism, explaining its hereditary nature and the probabilities associated with offspring. He highlights the emotional toll of potentially losing a child due to genetic factors:

"If I were to reproduce with an average height person, then it's a 50, 50 shot if it's little or average height. And then if I were to reproduce with another little person, 50% chance it's small, 25% chance it won't even live." ([06:53])

This revelation underscores the complexities and emotional burdens that families of little people may face.

Personal Relationships and Social Dynamics

Dating and Social Interactions [07:11 – 25:34]

John shares his perspectives on dating, expressing a preference for taller women whom he admires. He humorously addresses the social dynamics he encounters, such as being approached frequently in social settings and the challenges of maintaining personal boundaries:

"I see a lot of watches, see a lot of crotches. I also see a lot of booty." ([03:22])

Furthermore, he touches upon the stigma and misconceptions little people face in social interactions, advocating for greater acceptance and understanding.

Participation in The Amazing Race Canada

Reality Competition Experience [17:34 – 21:38]

John recounts his exhilarating experience on The Amazing Race Canada, where he was eliminated in the fourth episode. He describes the physical and mental challenges of the race, including managing without personal belongings and enduring intense physical exertion:

"The Amazing Race really made me realize who I am... It was physically taxing but such an incredible experience." ([17:54])

His participation not only enhanced his self-awareness but also solidified his commitment to advocating for the little people community.

Conventions and Community Building

Little People of America Convention [13:09 – 15:17]

John highlights the significance of the Little People of America (LPA) conventions, describing them as pivotal events for socializing, networking, and fostering a sense of community among little people:

"It's like a giant orgy. Lots of alcohol, lots of sex, lots of sports. Which is fun because it's a literal, level-headed playing field." ([13:09])

He emphasizes the importance of these gatherings in providing support, friendship, and opportunities for personal growth.

Content Creation and Advocacy

Building a Brand [37:02 – 38:12]

Transitioning to his career, John discusses his ventures into content creation and social media. He underscores the importance of authenticity and uniqueness in standing out amid a saturated digital landscape:

"We are small, so I have that to my advantage already, so that's unique in its own way." ([37:02])

John advocates for upcoming creators to pursue their passions genuinely, rather than following trends for superficial reasons.

Health and Lifestyle

Health Implications and Lifestyle Choices [30:25 – 32:04]

Addressing health concerns, John touches upon the unique challenges little people face, including higher risks of obesity and related complications due to anatomical differences:

"Obesity is a massive issue. Once you get heavy, our legs aren't strong enough to really hold all that weight." ([31:00])

He shares his personal strategies for maintaining health, such as intermittent fasting and mindful eating, while balancing an active lifestyle.

Language and Respect

Terminology and Respect [28:12 – 30:33]

John discusses the evolving language surrounding little people, advocating for respectful terminology and educating others on preferred terms:

"I would inform people if they ever say it, not to use it, but it's one of those words where a lot of people just aren't informed." ([28:32])

He emphasizes the importance of sensitivity and awareness in fostering a respectful and inclusive society.

Final Thoughts and Advice

Acceptance and Positivity [42:18 – 43:18]

In his closing remarks, John imparts heartfelt advice on self-acceptance and embracing one’s uniqueness:

"If you're struggling to accept who you are, accept who you are. We're all unique in our own ways." ([42:18])

He encourages listeners to leverage their unique traits to bring joy to others and to reject negativity, highlighting the profound impact of positivity on personal and communal well-being.

Predictions and Farewell [43:18 – 43:54]

John concludes the episode by sharing his predictions for an upcoming game, expressing enthusiasm and support for fellow participants. He extends gratitude to Sean Kelly and reiterates his commitment to uplifting the little people community.

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Key Takeaways

• Reality TV Manipulation: Reality shows often do not reflect true reality, with scripted scenarios undermining authenticity.

• Self-Acceptance: Embracing one's unique traits is crucial for personal happiness and societal contribution.

• Representation Matters: Authentic representation of little people in media is limited and often stereotypical, necessitating greater advocacy and inclusion.

• Community Support: Events like LPA conventions play a vital role in fostering community, support, and personal growth among little people.

• Health Challenges: Little people face unique health challenges that require tailored approaches to wellness and lifestyle.

• Respectful Language: Using respectful and informed terminology fosters a more inclusive and understanding society.

Notable Quotes

• "I realized everyone’s unique in their own way. You can either be upset with how you are or accept who you are and use it to your advantage." — John Ferguson ([02:49])

• "Reality TV is all lie. It was only scripted." — John Ferguson ([11:54])

• "If you're struggling to accept who you are, accept who you are. We're all unique in our own ways." — John Ferguson ([42:18])

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Conclusion

Sean Kelly’s interview with John Ferguson offers a profound exploration of the realities faced by little people, both in personal life and within the broader societal context. John's candid discussions shed light on the importance of self-acceptance, authentic representation, and community support, providing valuable insights and inspiration for listeners.

For more episodes featuring inspiring conversations with industry experts, entrepreneurs, and celebrities, subscribe to Digital Social Hour on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It'S actually crazy to see that reality shows are not reality at all. I was actually at their house for three days and after three days they hit me up and said, can you re enter the house as if you just arrived? And I already slept there. Walk in again. And I was like, oh, wow, this house is beautiful. I never expected anything like it. And my sheets were all over the place because I was already sleeping there. They actually aired it as well, so it was funny.

[A]

All right, guys, shortest guest I've ever had on. John Ferguson. Thanks for coming on, man.

[B]

I had no idea how tall you were. You made me feel even shorter than I already am.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It is an absolute honor to be on here, Sean.

[A]

Dude, it's a pleasure. I can't wait to get to know your world, dude. You're the first little person I've ever talked to.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I hope I'm the best little person and the most unforgettable one you ever speak.

[A]

I love it, man. So what's your height?

[B]

Four foot one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've always claimed I was four foot two until I got humble and then I realized I am an inch lower than 4 foot 2.

[A]

You think you shrunk or.

[B]

I think I might have just worn the. I grew up wearing vans and I have such big soles, so I think once I switched over to the other sneakers I wear, I lost an inch. Wow. Yeah.

[A]

So when did you stop growing?

[B]

When I was about eight years old. It was hard as well because I played hockey because I'm Canadian. And when I stopped growing and all my friends like really started growing and they were hitting their growth spurts and everything, and my mom was like, hey, John, like, you are not going to get any taller. And then there was hitting in hockey when I was about 13. And that's when it really hit me, like, hey, John. I had to look myself in the mirror, hey, John, you're no longer going to get any taller and all your friends are going to keep growing. You're little for the rest of your life. And that was like a huge, hard hitting moment for me when I realized I couldn't play sports. I always wanted to play hockey growing up and End up in the NHL and realizing I was small and coming to terms with that was the hardest thing ever in my entire life.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But it took about five years of like growing up after the age of 13 when I realized I can leverage my height to really put smiles on everyone's faces. And I realized everyone's unique in their own way. And you can either be upset with how you are or. Or you could really accept who you are and use it to your advantage. And that's what I've done now.

[A]

I love that, man.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So you said you were eight years old when you stopped.

[B]

Eight years old when I stopped growing. And I was about 4 foot 1, massive head. Though the head never stopped growing. The head I think is still growing.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Feel like Megamind out here. But no, I stopped growing at about 8. But I'm really, I'm really happy I stopped growing because I wouldn't change the fact that I'm small for anything.

[A]

You wouldn't change it? You got offered to be six foot, bro.

[B]

Unless I'm making the NBA and making those like, nice, like $40 million contract, I'm happy at four foot one.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I see a lot of things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I see a lot of watches, see a lot of crotches. I also see a lot of booty.

[A]

Yeah, you got that angle, right.

[B]

It's not a bad life, especially here in Vegas too, right? Lots of booty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of watches.

[A]

Yeah. You're eye level with the booty.

[B]

Yes. But also with crotch. Oh, so it's like a win lose situation.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But that's also why I'm a sneaker head, because I can see sneakers so well. So never crease your shoes and bring them over in front of me.

[A]

That's a pet peeve. Yours.

[B]

I can really see them close.

[A]

The creases.

[B]

The creases, yeah.

[A]

Some people don't take care of their shoes.

[B]

No. But at least they wear them. They don't like the people who wear like high or have high end shoes and never wear them.

[A]

Right. That didn't make sense to me because if you're going to spend thousands on a shoe just to put it in.

[B]

Your office if like Win has some nice shoes and he wears them. Yeah, I know that. So there you go.

[A]

There we go. Blake Wynn. Shout out to Blake.

[B]

Shout out to Blake Wynn. We're actually gonna see him tonight.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

In the celebrity.

[A]

I'm excited to see you play, man. You said you played a little bit, so.

[B]

Dude, I play all the time. And guess what? When I'm sitting, I'm the same height usually as everyone else. I don't know about Howard, but I have the same size torso, just smaller limbs and quite a large head.

[A]

I love it. Did they put you at Dwight Howard's table?

[B]

No, they didn't. I think I'm playing with. I actually don't know who I'm playing.

[A]

Ooh, you didn't study the field.

[B]

I'm excited. No, no, dude. I'm just hopping in. Just gonna improvise it, but I'm ready to play. I'm so ready to play.

[A]

Let's do it, dude. So is this a genetic thing? How does it work?

[B]

So my whole family's average height.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I have no one else in my family who is little. I think it's one of the. I think it's the 24th chromosome. I think it was like my father's semen or something that made me short, but. But I have 1 in 40,000 where my mom and dad are average height and they add a little person. However, me, since I'm already a little person. If I were to reproduce with an average height person, then it's a 50, 50 shot if it's little or average height like you. And then if I were to reproduce with another little person, 50% chance it's small, 25% chance it's.

[A]

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[B]

H-E-L-P.comDSH Little but then another 25% chance that it won't even live.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So it's crazy.

[A]

That's high.

[B]

It's crazy. I've. I've actually got a lot of couples who are each small who unfortunately have lost their child.

[A]

So that's terrible. I didn't know. It's 25%.

[B]

Yeah, dude. It's a large percentage. It freaks me out. But if I do ever have a kid, I've always told myself, I've told my family, I will adopt.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense because you've met hundreds of little people, so they probably share that sentiment too, that they're scared about having kids.

[B]

It's a huge fear. But also, you know, maybe at the celebrity poker tour, I might find an average one. Then it's just a 50, 50 shot.

[A]

Who do tend to gravitate towards about like five.

[B]

Five women.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like just around that like range of like not too short, but not too tall.

[A]

Okay. You like a taller woman?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

I like to look up to my women.

[A]

Older or younger?

[B]

Older. Oh, dude. I like like the 40 year old range.

[A]

You like the MILFs, which is actually.

[B]

Great because there's the LSU USC game this weekend in Vegas and it is an older crowd. It's all like the alumni and there's a lot of older moms here.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I really nice. It's my happy place.

[A]

Yeah. That's cool, dude. I know you're getting into acting. Have you met Peter Dinklage yet?

[B]

I have not. And that's one person I really want to meet. I would say he is the most famous little person other. I guess we man is also up there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would love to meet Peter. He is a huge role model. Well, he's not like physically huge, but he's. He's a very big role model for all the other fellow little people. He's a great entertainer, a great actor. So I would love to meet him.

[A]

He was my favorite character. One of my favorites in Game of Thrones.

[B]

Him and Jamie freaking show.

[A]

Oh, he did.

[B]

He made. He was making like 20 a season at one. What? Bro, he crushed it.

[A]

He's set for life.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Eight seasons, dude.

[B]

Yeah. And he's hopping in a lot of movies now and everything. So, wow.

[A]

I've seen him speak on acting roles for little people, and there's not many.

[B]

No, there's not. There's not. And it'll only become harder because a lot of the production companies are afraid to offend and everything as really had with that whole politically correct world, it's only. It'll only end up more politically correct, and then it'll be even harder for the little people to get roles.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Usually we would end up, let's be honest, in the holiday roles like the elves, the leprechauns, whatever it is. And now, as we move into this more politically correct world, little people will not get any acting roles.

[A]

I saw that with Snow White recently, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all just average hype. People who they ended up hiring.

[A]

What did you think about that whole incident?

[B]

I think it was a little bit aggressive for Peter to bring that up because he's already set for life. And there are little people who are just solely actors, and this is their shot to make a solid rack of money. And now, after Peter said that and he has the platform where if he says something where it's mean that they're making fun of us, you just screwed over seven little people at least, who will now be unemployed and lose an opportunity to make a whole lot of money.

[A]

Wow. So you actually disagreed with Peter's thing a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. Fox News actually reached out to me and wanted me to speak on it in a segment, but I really didn't feel, like, super sad on explaining it.

[A]

So I don't know about the mainstream media.

[B]

Also, like, dude, I held up. I was on one segment with someone on Fox News. His name is Jesse Waters.

[A]

I think I heard of him.

[B]

And he was speaking on pranks because I created this one Uber Eats prank, where the Uber driver or whatever ended up grabbing me. And they brought it up. They're like, were you assaulted? And it was live on Fox. And I was like, oh, God. Well, I'm afraid of freaking. I'm afraid of the live media now.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, they'll spin the story however they want. They just did it with Kamala's interview.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know which network that was, but apparently was a 41 minute interview.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they only show, like, seven minutes or something.

[B]

Dude. The media is becoming, like a powerhouse of just lies. It's crazy. Yeah. It is only Fox. It's all.

[A]

All of them.

[B]

All the channels are equally just.

[A]

They're pushing their agendas.

[B]

Absolutely. Whatever they want to do, they will spin it into the perfect way that they wanted.

[A]

Yeah, that's Nazi. Were you on the show, the little People show?

[B]

I was on Little People Big World. Yeah. Yeah, I was on a couple episodes. It's actually crazy to see that reality shows are not reality at all. I was actually at their house for three days, and after three days, they hit me up and said, can you reenter the house as if you just arrived? And I already slept there for 48 hours. And I had to grab my suitcase, walk in again. And I was like, oh, wow, this house is beautiful. I never expected anything like it. And then they brought me up into the room I was sleeping at, and my sheets were all over the place because I was already sleeping there and I was young. Like, I wasn't making the sheets. After I woke up, I was like, oh, wow, this is a great room. It was a mess and I felt so bad.

[A]

That's hilarious.

[B]

They actually aired it as well, so it's funny.

[A]

Funny, yeah. Reality tv, you never know.

[B]

It's all lie.

[A]

You think so?

[B]

It's great. Well, a lot of it's real, but, like, a lot of the arguments and everything, it's funny to see that. Like, what do you see on TV that is real anymore? Yeah, it's hard to even see it, even, like, vlogging on YouTube. Like, half of it's scripted.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As well.

[A]

I. I still remember that show as a kid. For some reason, it's just implanted in my brain.

[B]

They went to in like 15 seasons.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Zach Roloff, like, this son was small. He ended up becoming a great guy, though. Like, he's a close friend of mine for a childhood celebrity, quote unquote. He ended up being a great guy. That's father now of three.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

He. He has an average high wife. So he has three little people kids.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So he had that 50. 50 shot three times. Three times.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

The odds of that are 1 in whatever, 0.5.

[A]

I think it's 1 cubed, 1 in 16 chance or something.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Small chance.

[A]

Yeah. I still remember that show. How do you feel like they portrayed you guys? Like, do you.

[B]

Oh, they crush it. It was good. It was for a charity fundraiser or whatever, so it was good.

[A]

Yes. You like this?

[B]

I really liked it. Yeah, it was awesome. And he has a great family as well.

[A]

Nice. And then there's. There's conferences, which I want to make it out to. One of these.

[B]

Yeah, dude. So it's called the Little people of America. The first one I ever went to was in 2008 in Seattle. It happens all over America and it's a new city every year. And essentially it's one week at the end of June where a bunch of little people from all over the US but also a lot of the Canadians fly in. So I fly in with a lot of my Canadian friends. And it's just one week of sports, but also a lot of socializing and let's be honest, a lot of sex.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Little people. It's a huge orgy. It's the greatest week ever for little people.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

It's the greatest week of the year. And it's just a big convention of a bunch of little people. We all get together and it's all ages as well. It's like all the way from like a month old to 80 years old. And it's great for all ages because obviously the young ones, it's a great opportunity for them to like, really realize who they are and I guess come to terms with the fact that they're small, they can meet other little people. It's great for the average height parents who meet other average height parents who already have a son who's older, and then they can like, ask questions about like, hey, how hard was it raising a little person? Blah, blah, blah. But then for us, like when we're like around the age of like 15 to 20, 28 or whatever, it's. It's like a hammered sex fest.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

With a bunch of little people for one week.

[A]

Just a giant orgy.

[B]

Giant orgy. Lots of alcohol, lots of sex, lots of sports. Which is fun because it's like a literal, level headed playing field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a lot of fun.

[A]

That's cool. You said earlier you love sports.

[B]

Love sports, man. Love basketball, love hockey.

[A]

We're gonna have to play basketball together.

[B]

I don't think I'll ever play basketball. I'll watch you play, but, like, I'd rather not break my ankles and your knee might hit me in the head. You might hold off and play basketball.

[A]

Where do you rank with the little people? Are you one of the more.

[B]

Oh, dude, I suck. I'm not. Oh, you're not good. It's so ironic. I love sports. I love working out. I love fitness. Dude, I'm not athletic. I'm not coordinated, I don't think.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

But you used to play hockey.

[B]

I know, but I stopped at like 11 and then I skateboarded. I love to do that.

[A]

You went through that phase?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, she was the emo phase, right? Yeah. Yeah. I wore like, all, like, you know, like the Zoomies and all that stuff. I love skateboarding. I love watching sports. I love playing it. I'm just. I'm not that athletic. And also, I always have a hangover during that whole week because all the sports happen early in the morning, so it's hard.

[A]

So you're drinking a lot?

[B]

A lot. But then I had, like, four months off ahead of that, so I always quit drinking for the first two quarters of the year because I know the little people convention will be wild. And then also this summer as well.

[A]

You go hard in the summer?

[B]

Yeah, but I'm not gonna be drinking during the celebrity poker tour.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I'm ready. You'd be on alert, dude. I'm alert.

[A]

Guys, if you're betting on this match, you might have to.

[B]

I didn't know you could actually bet. Yeah, my friend's brother just put money on me. I'm like, dude, this is real.

[A]

What were your odds?

[B]

Plus 6,000. I think I have worse odds than the Huktua girl.

[A]

They must not have known you used to play.

[B]

They never played before.

[A]

Yeah, they must not have known your background.

[B]

No.

[A]

I might throw 100 on you. Dude.

[B]

Dude, splash.

[A]

Little 6,000. That's.

[B]

That's with you.

[A]

That's 60k, right? Or is that 6k? I don't know the math on that, but damn. Let's go, baby.

[B]

No, dude, I'm excited. I'm so excited. Is this the first one you'll be watching live?

[A]

Yeah, I played in the last one. I got like, 40th. It was my. So I wore sunglasses and no one told me, but you could see my cards. What, through the lens?

[B]

How are you not going to. I would. I would let you know.

[A]

You would have told me, right?

[B]

I swear to God.

[A]

Because people were laughing at my table and I didn't know why.

[B]

Oh, that's so shitty.

[A]

Yeah, so they saw my cards.

[B]

That's so funny. Wait, so how long were you in for? Like half an hour, three hours. Okay. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I got wrecked. Yeah.

[B]

How does it usually flow? Is it like a. A lot of all ins off the.

[A]

Bat, or is it just like someone gets out in the first two minutes every time?

[B]

How many. How many are there? There's like 80 players.

[A]

Dude, you got nine tables out there. Yes. You got to take it slow, dude.

[B]

I'll take it slow.

[A]

Yeah. You got two lives, though.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

One bullet if you bust.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah. So you went on the Amazing Race Canada?

[B]

I did. I Just did that. We filmed it from the middle of April to the middle of May.

[A]

And it's not out yet?

[B]

No, no, it already aired. I think they're on the last episode, but I was eliminated on the fourth episode. There's 11 episodes. And I will tell everybody it was the greatest experience of my whole life.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The Amazing Race really made me realize who I am. And I had no phone, no connection with the outside world. I had no tv. I read books. I haven't read books since like freaking middle school. I got to read books. It really helped me realize what I want to do in life. And I kind of had like a philosopher esque, eye opening realization that I want to start creating a lot more things that relate with what I want to do and who I really want to, like, represent. I want to do more for the little people community. I feel like there's so many minorities now play the victim and all that. And I'm like, dude, the little people actually do go through a lot of things, like a lot of stereotypes. We are one of the last underrepresented groups of quote, unquote, minorities. Even though I hate even using that word, that hardly get any good representation in the mainstream media. So I realized during the race, without a connection with the real world. So I had so much time to think that I want to do more for them and I also want to expand my brand where I never say no to an opportunity. That's why when you reached out, you're like, hey, do you want to hop on the pond? I'm like, heck yeah, I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you should never say no to any opportunity. But for the actual race, however, that was physical challenges. I bet it looks intense, dude. I totally believe walking into it because as we mentioned earlier that reality TV is all scripted. The Amazing Race caked my ass, man. Physically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like every day. It was like you had a backpack and they weren't lying. They will not hold on to any of your stuff. So you have all your clothes, all your food, everything. You're running. You got a pack light and dude, you're running. You. You don't have a car or anything. You're running like miles. It was so cool because at the end of it, dude, I was shredded. This is the best shape I've ever been in. I wasn't drinking or anything. It was such a cool experience. However, when they reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to be on it, I had this plan of obviously bringing on a partner who was small. Cause I thought that would Be so cool. I ended up bringing on an average friend who was freaking huge like you, and that was the greatest decision I made because it was physically taxing.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And my partner did a lot of the challenges that were, like.

[A]

She would have been at a disadvantage with two of you. You.

[B]

Dude, we will. We would have been out in the first lap. But, dude, it was. It was such an incredible experience. I recommend everyone who would ever want to do it apply to the Amazing Race. I think they have it everywhere. They have an Asia one, Australia, obviously.

[A]

They have the U.S. i didn't know they had Canada. That's interesting, Dude.

[B]

The Canadian one's on their 11th season.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I think the US one's on, like, their 30s, dude.

[A]

They're crushing it, bro.

[B]

You. You have to be on it. I'm down with those freaking legs, bro. You could. You could really.

[A]

I gotta put them to use. Yeah. I want to go on Survivor. Would you ever go on Survivor?

[B]

I would do it. Yeah. It would be cool. I would have. On any of the shows after the Amazing Race experience, I would do it all. Like, it's so cool. And do you. You're flying around for free, right? Like, there's nothing better than not having to worry about, like, grabbing flights.

[A]

And they cover your hotels to.

[B]

Everything's covered. Like, you don't walk into it with a wallet. Like, you don't even have your. All you have is your driver's license.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

They hold on to everything else.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah. So I don't even have a credit card.

[A]

So you don't have a phone.

[B]

But for some reason, they fed me a lot of protein bars, and that made me fart a lot. So the Amazing Race made my fart smell so bad. And now I weirdly have an addiction to protein bars.

[A]

And you still are eating them.

[B]

Dude, last night I ate them in Vegas. I went to cvs. I got, like, four Quest protein bars.

[A]

Oh, the cookies and cream one.

[B]

Yeah. I microwaved them.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. But, dude, my farts in the morning are atrocious.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I let it all out this morning because I didn't really want to fart on the podcast. I feel like that'd be rude. I just met you in person. Obviously, I met you before online. But, dude, if I fart in front of Sean, really kill me.

[A]

I feel like the first impression. Don't want to really do that.

[B]

Don't want to fart.

[A]

Yeah. Why do you microwave them?

[B]

It's like a soft, like.

[A]

Oh, so it melts a little.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

I love Those things.

[A]

I used to pound those in high school.

[B]

They're so good.

[A]

Are they still as good as high school?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, I love protein bars.

[A]

Sometimes I eat food that I used to like, and it's. It's not good.

[B]

I mean, a lot healthier, though. Like, I eat salad every day and all that. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, but if you have a lot. Yeah, but I do about 1100 calories a day. Oh, that's it? Yeah, dude, I don't actually eat a lot.

[A]

I burn 3,000 a day.

[B]

I could see that with your freaking big body, dude. Yeah, it's not freaking right. So I have to eat like you're in shape.

[A]

I'm in decent shape.

[B]

Is it hard? So is it. Are you at a point then where you, like, you don't want to eat more, but you have to.

[A]

I intermittent fast like you.

[B]

So that.

[A]

The problem with that, though, is you feel great during the day, but then you got to eat a lot in your last two meals. Yeah, so I have to eat, like, heavy meals.

[B]

I try to quit eating at least three hours before I fall asleep, or else I feel, like, groggy in the morning.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You ever have that?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Dude. Wait, so what's, like, your main meal?

[A]

Like, it varies. Like, when I go to buffets, I eat 12 plates. I'll get a little bit of everything, but, you know, chicken, steak, mashed potatoes, broccoli.

[B]

Dude, we should go to catch.

[A]

Catch is nice.

[B]

Catch up a catch and just eat 3,000 calories each.

[A]

You think you could do that?

[B]

I want to do an oyster challenge where I eat 40 oysters in one minute.

[A]

Whoa. But that sounds hard because you have to suck them out. That part takes a while.

[B]

I'm a sucker.

[A]

If they just laid them out, maybe. And then you could use a straw.

[B]

And I wouldn't do any hot sauce or anything. Like, anything holding me back. Just raw cha, cha, cha.

[A]

I need some sauce in my oysters, bro. Dude, they're too oystery for me.

[B]

I love seafood. It's, like, my thing. I get a whole other world. I was a sea creature.

[A]

I thought I was a pirate in my past life because I'm good at navigating.

[B]

Ah. Is okay.

[A]

Yeah. I really not stuff.

[B]

That's. That's crazy. I don't know what I would be in my past life, I think I was an NBA player, I swear. Yeah, I really do think I was, like, a crazy athlete in my past life where I had this insane NBA career. That's why I Ended up small in my second life. They're like, all right, punished you. You had a really good, like you were too tall. Living in the tall world, have fun at forefoot. And I took advantage of it. Now I literally get to make people smile every day because I'm small.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Obviously there's a few other things I have to add on to it, but being small has given me the greatest platform ever to make people smile.

[A]

I love it, love it. What's the mindset overall of small people though?

[B]

Because you met so many, everyone I think is happy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which is so cool. I think what's so cool about being a little person is we're one of the only minorities where you walk up to us and you're not afraid. You honestly gravitate towards us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you want to meet us. I'm not saying there's any other minorities specifically that like you're afraid of or you're a little bit shy or you're just not really wanting to see them or meet them, but little people specifically do. You don't see a little person. You don't see a little person on the street and go, I do not want to walk up to that guy. When you're at the club, you want to go walk up to that little person. That's why it's so cool to be a little person, because you already have the advantage when you're meeting people.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Everybody wants to meet you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's hard though at the bar because then everyone wants to buy you shots. Dude, I don't need a lot.

[A]

You only need three, right?

[B]

Dude, yeah. Three shots and bye bye. Especially when I'm intermittent fasting. Like I'm like 91 pounds. Like I do not need a lot of liquor, which is good though, because it's cheap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then that's a whole other thing. Everyone thinks because I'm small my clothing is cheap. Well, guess what? I have a big booty, but I have short limbs. So there I have to get adult sized pants because of my big booty, but I have to hem them and all that. So it's even more expensive for me to buy pants than you.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Because I'm grabbing the same price pants, but then I'm also having to hire somebody to hem the bottom.

[A]

Wow, that's annoying. So you gotta stop doing squats then.

[B]

Uh huh. No, no. It's like if you're a little person with achondroplasia, that's like the specific type I have. Yeah, you just have a big Booty.

[A]

Damn. So there's specific types within the little people community.

[B]

I have a wagon. That's why I'm excited to see Blac Chyna tonight. Cause her and I can bond over that. How? We have big booties.

[A]

Yeah, you got to twerk together.

[B]

Oh my God. We should twerk on the table.

[A]

I'd be fire. You gotta do something.

[B]

All that twerk.

[A]

Let's do it. What are the other types?

[B]

There's acromess, Amelia of. Dude, I can't even pronounce them, but there's a heck of a lot of them. I think there's over 200.

[A]

What?

[B]

The other one is a hypochondriloplasia. That's like one of the main ones. That's when you're about like 4, 6, so like, you're right around the cutoff, which is 410 and hypo. Like you have like longer limbs. You look a little more normal. I don't like using that word, obviously, but you do look a little more regular. And a lot of them end up in the Paralympics.

[A]

Right.

[B]

For swimming.

[A]

Oh, got it. So you could have entered the Paralympics?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I can't swim, dude. You throw me in the damn water swimming stuff. I'm very heavy up top.

[A]

I can't float, dude. Yeah, I sink.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I literally can't float.

[B]

If you ever, like, hate me, just throw me in water. Bye.

[A]

Wait, so if you're four, nine and a half.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a little person?

[B]

Well, like, it's like a whole genetic thing, but like, technically they just claim if you're under 410, you're. You're good.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's like an over under thing in sports.

[A]

What's the shortest adult you've seen?

[B]

Probably two foot. Super rare. Super rare form of dwarfism.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, he looked up to me for sure.

[A]

Damn. Yeah, Twos is.

[B]

But he was so happy. It's so cool to see everyone just happy with who they are. And that's such an issue in today's world where everyone just wants to play the victim. Everyone wants to be upset with who they are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Except who the heck you are, man. You only have one life at the end of the day, like, accept who you are, come to terms with what you have, whether it's some physical disadvantage, some mental disadvantage. At the end of the day. Dude, in this world, if everybody was the same, this world would be so boring.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Everybody is unique in their own way. So leverage that, Take that to your advantage and Just accept who you are.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

And move on with life because you can't change it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I did, dude. I accepted that I was little, and I realized because I'm little, now I get to put smiles on millions of freaking faces. And how cool is that? I love my life.

[A]

You're representing guys amazingly, man.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

When I go on social media, sometimes I see people talking about the M word and they look really pissed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that a big deal?

[B]

The word midget? Yeah. It is, like, frowned upon. I wouldn't ever use it, obviously. I will inform people if they ever say it, not to use it, but it's one of those words where a lot of people just aren't informed. Like, they're not using it in a negative way. So I rather just not come off aggressively when someone says it. And I would rather just say, hey, it's not really a word that people like to say a lot, so they don't like to be called that. And then they're like, oh, I'm so sorry. A lot of people just simply. They don't know what the cause.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is fine. Which is fair. I don't like the comparison, though, with the other words. Like, they. A lot of. A lot of little people in my community compare it with, like, a race derogatory word, and I'm like, oh, really? It's not. Let's not make that embarrassing, because we didn't go through oppression. A lot of other things.

[A]

So when was that shift with the M word? Because when I was growing up as a kid.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like people used the word. Yeah, it was a midget. But right now it's little person. And I love that word. I think it's. It's fine. But the issue is. I think it was around the 2000s, where it was like, let's just.

[A]

I wonder what caused it, because it's like, we used to use the R word, right?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. And I think it was just all those words. They were like, every single, like, minority group was like, all right, what word are we gonna cancel out? And everyone decided to remove the word that everyone uses, which is hard, but. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It was weird to me. I don't know. It didn't make sense.

[B]

Everyone wants to play the victim.

[A]

Yeah. Like, one day was fine, and then. Yeah. Next day, you're the worst guy in the world.

[B]

I'm, like, afraid. And, like, in, like, five years, what will the next word be? We can't use.

[A]

Yeah. For real.

[B]

Did you Just call me a human.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What the heck? You know, human.

[A]

That's.

[B]

I'm an organism. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Is there any, like, other health implications.

[B]

Other than the height, other than having a massive wiener? No, there's a few other issues. Obviously, your limbs will get pretty sore, especially if you overeat. There's a lot. It's super easy to overeat as a little person because we have the same, like, appetite, I guess. Like, we have the same size torso, but there's not enough room for the food to go.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And a lot of little people end up overeating. And obesity is a massive issue. Really, the issue with obesity with little people is once you get heavy, our legs aren't strong enough to really hold all that weight. So then it becomes a big cluster f. Wow. I didn't know that a lot of us ended up in scooters at 40, which is why I ended up intermittent fasting because I got so anxious. But I kind of take things to, like, a little bit too far. And then I, like, really quit eating for a while, and then I've been eating a lot more. A lot of protein bars and everything. But I also eat healthy as well. But, yeah, there's a lot of other implications. A lot of limb issues where, like, you need surgery or whatnot. But other than that, I think it's just the same issues as everyone else. You know, you get those random, you know, health issues, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Besides that. The fact that we're just happy with who we are, that's all that matters.

[A]

There's issues with really tall people, too.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Every inch past five, 10, you lose a year on average.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Damn. So Howard, who won't meet, like, poor.

[A]

Howard's gonna have some years off his life. But if you think about it, like, what super tall guy do you know that lived long?

[B]

Holy cow.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

They drop pretty early.

[B]

This is early in the morning for eye openers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, that's crazy.

[A]

I used to think about it.

[B]

I didn't look that up after this.

[A]

No, look it up. It may be a change, but I remember I saw a study about it years ago.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had no idea.

[A]

I'm 6'six so I don't know why.

[B]

I have a weird feeling you're gonna live to, like, you're, like, 120.

[A]

I'm pretty healthy.

[B]

But you are healthy. Like, you're over there having a big spring of water out of a glass.

[A]

Yeah, I drink out of glass. I might Modify my kids. Genetics.

[B]

Okay. Wait, are you having kids?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How old are you?

[A]

27.

[B]

Oh, we're like. Are you in 97?

[A]

Yeah, 97.

[B]

Me too. November 6th. Oh, nice, nice.

[A]

Class of 2015, baby.

[B]

Yes, baby.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

You went to university?

[A]

Yeah. I didn't make it.

[B]

What's all the way through?

[A]

Rutgers.

[B]

I think you did very well for yourself without university.

[A]

Yeah. These days you don't really need it as much as you used to.

[B]

YouTube's fine for YouTube.

[A]

University, baby.

[B]

Dude, it's crazy. You can spend 40 grand a year in university or you could go to YouTube for free. Yeah, you just have to watch like a five second ad.

[A]

I pay for YouTube Red.

[B]

Okay, so you do like five dollar five a month? Yeah, I could do 40 grand a year and have to walk to all your classes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you don't even like, choose what you learn, essentially. Nope. University, I think is. It's a lot like the R word and the M word where it's like, let's just keep it to the past. Let's find something else.

[A]

Absolutely. Did you go?

[B]

I did, I did. But you know what? University for me, I went for finance, which has helped me a lot in my life. The greatest thing that I got out of university was really accepting who I was. But also I made so many videos online at university, which made me realize I want to do this as a career. I want to make content as a. As a career. So university helped me with that. So I wouldn't regret heading to university.

[A]

It was nice.

[B]

Greatest four years of my life. It wasn't the greatest thing in my life because that was the amazing Race. But yeah, I loved university. It was fun.

[A]

Was there any other little people at your university?

[B]

There's a couple.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

What's weird about little people? When you see them in public and you don't know them, they either, like, look over you. They either look over at you and provide you with that, like, head nod. Yeah. What's up? Yeah. Yeah. We're each short. We don't even need to say it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or they'll like, see that you're also small and they'll be like, oh. And they'll like, like hide. I'm like, we're clearly each short. Like, you're gonna lease wink at me or something. Damn.

[A]

So that happened to you? Someone just saw you.

[B]

Someone else went to the same university. It was a Canadian one, so it was like a lot smaller. And they didn't even want to, like, have anything to do with me.

[A]

What I Feel like I'd want to bond.

[B]

Dude, at least provide me a wink, right? Hey, like, I'm small, too.

[A]

Yeah, because who else can relate to your problems?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Exactly. We can relate, baby.

[A]

Maybe he's just too ashamed.

[B]

It was a girl. Oh, it's a girl. Yeah. And I just.

[A]

Oh, so she could have had a crush on you then.

[B]

You know, maybe she was playing with me. She could have been answering my question. Over to you. I don't think I'm ever gonna have kids.

[A]

What? But you said you wanted a dock.

[B]

I do. I want to be a single father.

[A]

Oh, so you don't even. Can you do that?

[B]

Yeah, I think as a single father, maybe.

[A]

I didn't know.

[B]

I don't even know.

[A]

Yeah, I don't even know.

[B]

So now there's two things after this podcast look up. One is the average age of someone over 5, 10, how long they last. And number two is, can you adopt as a single father?

[A]

So why single, though?

[B]

I just don't think a wife could handle me.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're that wild?

[B]

So not like, wild. I'm just, like, impatient, you know? Like, I like to leave the house, like, on time and stuff. I like to do whatever I want to do when I want to do it. Like, even hanging out with my mom now, she, like, rips my hair apart. It's like. John, slow down. I'm like. I'm just, like, super hyper.

[A]

So do you think that's, like, OCD or something?

[B]

I think it comes with creating content. I swear I wasn't ever like that. Like, I was always late to everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then five years in the social media creation side, it turned me into just, like, this hyper animal where I just want to get stuff done. Like, I want to always be working, if that makes any.

[A]

I'm like that, too.

[B]

So, yeah, like, after this, I plan on going to the shops in Vegas, grabbing Kim Kardashian skims, wearing them throughout the strip, my small friend.

[A]

That's hilarious.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You always think of clever videos.

[B]

I love just making random stuff where, like, you just. You don't see that every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

So, yeah, that's what you have to do, because too many people copy each.

[B]

Other and everyone's doing the same stuff laid out. Obviously, I'm small, so I have that to my advantage already, so that's unique in its own way. But then I want to take it to a whole new level.

[A]

Yeah, no, I love that, dude. Because too many people just follow a trend and it's like, it is crazy.

[B]

Like, you see so many of the same videos now.

[A]

So many.

[B]

It's so crazy. Like, you've been creating for so long. I know that because I think our first message was like, four years ago. But, dude, in the last four years that Corona as well, created so many new content creators. And everyone's creating now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it used to be. I want to be an NBA player, I want to be an actor, I want to be a firefighter. Now the kids want to become a creator online. Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

It's a whole new world.

[A]

Do you advise upcoming kids to really dive into content creation?

[B]

I think if you truly have a passion for it, yes. But I wouldn't force it. Yeah, I would never force working on something that you don't actually want to do, but you want to do it for the wrong reasons.

[A]

Facts.

[B]

Like, I do. There's nothing I love more than walking on the street and someone walking up and being like, hey, yeah, you really made me smile, dude. That's fucking cool.

[A]

Absolutely feeling.

[B]

How the hell did I do that? You know what I mean? Like, obviously the. The money and the fact that you have to make a living from this, but the fact that we can make people smile and entertain people is such a blessing. Yeah, I love it.

[A]

Do you see little people struggling to get jobs?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But it is helping with this whole, like, new world of politically correctness where we are hired now for. Unfortunately, I don't want to say the wrong reasons, but because we're small, so.

[A]

They have to hire certain amount.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dei, right.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So it is hard, obviously, physical labor. I don't see us in construction that often or police officers. That would be an easy way to run away from. But in, like, finance and all, like, those jobs, like office jobs, is, I think, great opportunities for us. But there are a lot of creators, though, who are small. A lot of them are on that one platform where you remove your clothes. Oh, they make.

[A]

I heard about one of them, that one girl that makes like a million a month.

[B]

Erica.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, dude. All my friends, like, who are. Who are average height, always hit me up about her. Like, dude, yo, hit her up. I'm like, yo, no.

[A]

Has she been in those orgies at the conferences?

[B]

No, she likes to average, I guess. Ah. Like, not just average, I guess, like big average.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Like Howard, guys.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I haven't been on her of. But it sounds like you have.

[B]

Oh, no, but I've been sent a lot of her videos. You ever see my Hidden requests on Instagram. It's like, concerning really people, are you an in red or, hey, like, here's a video of little people without clothes on.

[A]

Damn. I can't believe you could just send that to someone on Instagram.

[B]

I know. And I'm also like, well, no, like, it warns you. It's like, hey, do you want to see this? And I'm sorry, if I see that. I'm freaking going, like, yeah, I'm curious. Pop up. I'm like, damn, I'm in the airport right now. Someone else can probably see my phone. But, yeah, she's crushing it. You make a lot of money as a little person. You just remove your clothes and you upload it. I haven't done it yet.

[A]

Have you considered it?

[B]

I'm not at that point yet, but.

[A]

You know, if times are tough, I'm.

[B]

Fully fine with nudity. Like, you can. I will show my. Whatever to everybody. I just. My grandma, I just don't know if she'd be happy with being naked online.

[A]

I feel that.

[B]

Yeah, family life want to hurt her.

[A]

Yeah, family life might be impacted by that decision.

[B]

So I'm gonna keep my. Keep my hammer in. In my pants. Yeah.

[A]

I guess you could blur your face or, you know, not sure.

[B]

It would be so easy to just know.

[A]

Yeah, there's not many people with your bill.

[B]

That's the thing with. The issue with being a little person is I couldn't rob a bank.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because even if I put on a mask, like, the shape, like, the silhouette of us, it's quite obvious what it is.

[A]

That's how I feel too.

[B]

And, dude, there's like. You just say, how many little people flew into that city today? Or, like, are from that city? Then there's like, what, like 40 of us? And then, dude, after that.

[A]

If that's that.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

Well, you're in Toronto, so maybe there is 40.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can't rob a bank on top of that. Like, let's be honest, our legs aren't that large.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So running away was not really an option.

[A]

Have you ever ran a mile?

[B]

Yeah. In four hours. It was a great four hours. I was exhausted.

[A]

How old were you when you met your first little person?

[B]

That's a really good question. I was three years old. Oh, yeah. So before, no clue. I was even, like, small at that point. I was like, I got small. Yeah.

[A]

And you remember this?

[B]

Yeah, not really, like, vividly. But then when I was 8 years old, that's when I, like, really made close friends with another little Person who grew up half an hour from me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we played a lot of hockey. We watched a lot of hockey. We did. I was really into wrestling for some reason, like the fake one or whatever. And then we really connected. It's so good for little people to grow up with another little person friend.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's why those conventions that happen every year are so crucial.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And especially bringing your little person kid to those events at a young age. Super crucial.

[A]

Yeah. I love that, dude. Well, John, it's been a blast. Anything else you want to close off with? Any predictions for tonight's game?

[B]

Well, first I want to tell the audience, dude, if you're struggling to accept who you are, if you have any issues with your life, physically or mentally, accept who you are. No matter what you are, who you are, you can't really change it. Just keep on moving on. We're all unique in our own ways. If everybody was the same in this world, this world would be a boring place. And that's why it's so exciting, because everyone is different in their own way. Accept who you are and love everybody. Because guess what? Hate literally brings you nowhere. Well, actually, there are, like, a lot of celebrities, like, from just hating, but besides, that hate will bring you nowhere in life also. Sean, it was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. You are one of the hardest working people I've ever not met because this is the first time actually physically meeting you. But I've been following you for so long. So thank you so much for having me on. My prediction for tonight's game is I truly think that Ashley Nassera is gonna win this thing.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, she's smart. I love Ashley Nassera. She is such a great person. But she's also from Jersey, so she has that, like, year from there as well. Right. That, like, super grinding mindset. I just feel like she's in it to win it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she. She's a good trash talk. Super nice girl, but she's also a good trash talker. Ashton to Sarah is my prediction to win this thing.

[A]

I'll keep an eye on her. I'll see you at the final table though, right, dude?

[B]

Yes, you will. I promise you.

[A]

Let's do it. Thanks so much.

[B]

Love you. Sorry I had to, like, hop off your chair. I know you have a long reach, but I definitely don't.

[A]

We made it happen. Thanks, guys.

[B]

Thank you, guys.

[A]

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