Inside the World of Crime Scene Cleaning | Matt Montague DSH #1357

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour

Episode: Inside the World of Crime Scene Cleaning | Matt Montague DSH #1357

Air Date: April 29, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Matt Montague (Owner, leading crime scene cleaning company CA/NV/AZ/TX)

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Episode Overview

This episode plunges listeners into the raw, emotionally charged, and often dark world of crime scene cleaning. Host Sean Kelly sits down with Matt Montague, owner of the largest independent crime scene cleanup company in California, Nevada, and Arizona, to discuss the realities and psychological impact of a profession most people only glimpse through crime dramas. Over the course of an hour, Matt shares unfiltered stories, insights into trauma and mental health, the challenges of running such a business, and the human side of death that most never see.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Getting Started in Crime Scene Cleanup

• Company History & Growth

  • Matt started the business in 2010, which took years to build up. ("I kind of faked it till I made it." – Matt, 01:08)
  • Now averages about one job per day, spanning homicides, suicides, natural deaths, accidents, homeless encampments, etc.

• Nature of Work

  • Most people mistakenly assume it's all about violent crimes, but natural deaths and decomposition are a huge part ("People forget about the natural deaths… older person…deceased for two weeks, the neighbors are like, what’s that smell?" – Matt, 02:05)
  • Environmental factors (heat, burial, illness) significantly affect decomposition and cleanup complexity.

Most Gruesome & Memorable Scenes

• Dealing With Decomp & Sensory Trauma

  • "You never get used to the maggots... the smell for me, it still to this day sometimes it'll gag me." (Matt, 03:18)
  • Smell, not the visuals, remains the hardest part for Matt.

• Notorious Scene Example

  • Matt recounts a meth-induced homicide in Texas where a man, in psychosis, mutilated and cannibalized his own mother ("He cut his mother... eating her liver while he masturbated." – Matt, 08:08).
  • Such scenes are not uncommon, and the psychological impact can be severe for clean-up workers.

• Serial Killers & Hidden Crimes

  • Matt’s company has been called after multiple serial killer cases, including a man in California serving human meat from a taco cart ("They test the meat and it's human meat...it's multiple people." – Matt, 11:24)
  • Claims the public is only aware of "12% of what really happens" due to underreporting by authorities and news (12:02).

Psychological Toll and Employee Turnover

• Occupational Trauma

  • Average employee lasts 7 years before leaving due to psychological strain and PTSD ("We have an average of maybe seven years that people work for us, and… PTSD starts to come in." – Matt, 04:40)

• Gender & Job Performance

  • Matt believes women outperform men as technicians due to stronger nurturing instincts and resilience to gore ("Women make better technicians than men because they can handle more of the gruesome and the nonsense." – Matt, 09:12)

Common Deaths & Insurance Realities

• Types of Cleanups

  • Besides violent crime, many scenes involve tragic accidents, overdoses, and medical conditions (e.g., esophageal varices from alcoholism that cause people to die vomiting blood in the bathroom, 18:11).
  • Burned bodies present extreme challenges due to pervasive stench ("Comes through that suit and it gets on you like a fog." – Matt, 19:30).

• Insurance and Payment

  • Most jobs are covered by homeowner’s insurance, but coverage is declining as carriers exclude biohazard work due to high costs (14:42).
  • Only qualified, state-listed companies can perform cleanups; attrition and regulation changes have reduced the number of qualified businesses.

• Responsibility After Police Leave

  • Once law enforcement and coroner remove bodies, the traumatic residue—blood, fluids, body parts—is left behind for families to confront unless they call a professional (14:00).

Encountering Death & Mortality

• Firsthand Experience With Death

  • Matt insists direct exposure changes one’s perspective on life: "You see a lot of death, man... it's going to happen to all of us. That's the one thing that... is guaranteed." (22:20)

• Child Deaths

  • The most traumatic cleanups, for Matt, are those involving children: "That I think I struggle with the most because I'm a father... seeing kids... it is the worst thing of my job." (22:47–26:22)
  • Memorable tragic case: a child killed by a malfunctioning elevator in a wealthy home because of a $75 part not replaced (24:09).

Spirituality & Death's Aftermath

• Supernatural Experiences
  • Matt claims to have witnessed unexplained phenomena at crime scenes, possibly residual "energy" after violent deaths ("Something will turn on just out of nowhere... Just freaky, that probably shouldn’t be happening." – 20:19)
  • Both he and Sean discuss personal beliefs about afterlife, life 'replays,' and the possibility of spirits remaining at death sites.

Mental Health & Seeking Help

• Matt's Struggles

  • Developed anxiety and PTSD, leading to quitting drinking and smoking cold turkey ("My anxiety from this job just put me through the roof." – 33:20)
  • Lauds breathing techniques and therapy; has not tried psychedelics but is curious after hearing positive stories.

• Coping Mechanisms

  • Physical health suffers due to work demands; some cleans take days to weeks and workers must endure extreme heat in full hazmat gear (35:15).
  • Sean and Matt discuss the importance—but difficulty—of separating work trauma from personal life.

Business Realities & Ethics

• Industry Trends

  • Many companies drop out due to licensing, insurance, and burnout. Competition is slim among serious practitioners (16:40).

• Exit Strategies

  • Matt’s children have no interest in inheriting the business; he plans to sell in the future, possibly to a national giant (Aftermath), though insurance companies dislike such big firms for overbilling (47:01).

• Client Interactions

  • Family grief sometimes spills into Matt’s work, resulting in confrontational or emotional exchanges and even bad reviews.
  • He’s learned to value only the opinions of people he respects and not dwell on inevitable negative feedback (41:22).

Hidden Deaths in Hospitality & Public Spaces

• Las Vegas & Hotels

  • Hotel and casino deaths are covered up: "Anything else? You’re never going to hear about it. Multiple times a week. Overdoses, suicides, a lot." (49:38)
  • Companies must use unmarked vehicles and plain clothes to avoid alarming the public.

• Airports

  • Deaths in airports are similarly hushed up; overdoses are common (51:31).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Psychological Toll:
  "I think we have an average of maybe seven years that people work for us. And then it gets to the point where they’re like, ‘Okay, enough’s enough.’ They need to move on, right? Because PTSD starts to come in." — Matt (04:40)

• On The Sights and Smells:
  "You never get used to the maggots. Either you can see it but you can't smell it, or you can smell it and can't see it...for me, it still to this day, sometimes it'll gag me." — Matt (03:18)

• On Child Deaths:
  "That I think I struggle with the most because I'm a father... seeing kids... is the worst thing of my job." — Matt (22:47)

• On The Hidden Side of Society:
  "You only hear 12% of really what happens in your area anywhere... they’re not telling you everything." — Matt (11:52, 12:02)

• On the Toughest Scene:
  "He cut his mother from her neck down to the top of her vagina... and then was eating her liver while he masturbated." — Matt (08:08)

• On Working in Silence:
  "In Vegas, everybody thinks that Vegas is, like, crazy, but remember, Vegas sweeps everything under the rug... anything else? You’re never going to hear about it." — Matt (49:05)

• Advice on Business and Reviews:
  "What do I care? Those people do not make your life. Everybody else who knows you and knows who you are... they don’t care. And he’s right." — Matt, quoting his son (41:22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:08 – Faking it until making it in the industry
• 03:18–03:45 – Sensory trauma: sight vs. smell
• 07:05 – The daily confrontation with death and rare survivals
• 08:08 – Most disturbing crime scene story (Texas, cannibalism)
• 11:24 – Serial killer serving human meat in tacos
• 14:00 – Responsibility for cleaning after authorities leave
• 18:11–18:44 – Esophageal varices deaths and bloody handprints
• 19:30 – Burned bodies and stench permeation
• 20:19-20:34 – Paranormal experiences at scenes
• 22:47–26:24 – The trauma of child deaths
• 29:24-30:15 – Employee reactions, passing out on scenes
• 31:18–34:42 – Matt's battles with PTSD, anxiety, quitting substances
• 35:15–36:13 – Physically demanding cleanups; duration, heat, exhaustion
• 41:22 – Learning to value select opinions, letting go of bad reviews
• 47:01 – Aftermath & industry consolidation, insurance company conflicts
• 49:05–50:25 – Vegas hotel cover-ups, operating in secrecy
• 51:28–51:48 – Hidden deaths in airports
• 53:23 – Where to find Matt and his "Dying to See Me" podcast

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Tone & Language

The conversation is informal, at times graphic and darkly humorous, reflecting the grim reality of death-related occupations. Both Sean and Matt maintain blunt authenticity, refusing to sugarcoat the subject matter. Matt’s candor about trauma, business, and mortality stands out, while Sean interjects with curiosity and genuine engagement.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at a crucial yet hidden industry—one that faces unimaginable horrors so others don't have to. Matt Montague and Sean Kelly tackle both the human and business side of death, from dealing with unspeakable trauma to the surprising logistical, legal, and ethical challenges of cleaning up what society often pretends not to see. The episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the realities behind crime scenes, the cost of trauma work, and the often-unseen infrastructure that holds a society together after tragedy.

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Where to Find Matt:
Instagram / Podcast: @dyingtoseeme
Spotify & YouTube: "Dying To See Me"

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Transcript

[Matt]

Is where somebody who has drank most of their life gets varicose veins on their esophagus. And eventually these varicose veins, depending on your heartburn or what you eat, will burst.

[Podcast Host]

Gee.

[Matt]

And there's nothing you can do. You're going to bleed out. And every single time we do this, there's bloody handprints on the bathroom sink like this.

[Podcast Host]

All right, guys, Got an interesting one for you guys today. A crime scene cleaner. Matt, thanks for coming on today, man.

[Matt]

Problem? No problem.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So the largest crime scene company in Cali, Vegas and Arizona, right?

[Matt]

Yeah. Number one in California. Number one in Vegas. Number one in Arizona, and I think like number four in Texas.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. That's impressive that you're able to do that many markets at the same time.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Because obviously you're stuck in one location, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, mostly the California, but we do fly and go to other, other spots to get them going. They're not franchise, they're just hours.

[Podcast Host]

How long did it take to build.

[Matt]

This thing up, man? 2010, I believe we started. Okay, so it's been, it's been a while.

[Podcast Host]

15 years.

[Matt]

15.

[Podcast Host]

Did it take off right away?

[Matt]

No, no, you know, I, I mean, I kind of faked it till I made it. You know, I think everybody does that. And you do your first one and you bill it and you, you think, oh, man, this is, there's no way this is going to happen or this. And, and then, you know, you get your first one and then your second one comes, and then it's always, man, I, you know, I hope to do one a month. And then it goes from, man, I hope to do one every other week, you know, and then it just. Now it's every day something is happening.

[Podcast Host]

Dance. You have one a day right now.

[Matt]

That's about average.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Matt]

But remember, there's more than just a homicide or a suicide. There's people that die. Natural causes. People that die of natural causes in, in public areas.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

Homeless encampments. There's. There's stillborn where there's could be just blood everywhere. There's car accidents there. I mean, there's just so many things that can happen.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

When, When I say I clean homicides and suicides, everybody thinks, oh, but they, they forget about the, the, the natural deaths that happen, too, or the decomps that happen. You know, where there's an older person who doesn't have family member that checks on them or they don't check on them as much as they should check on them. And then next thing you know, They've been deceased for two weeks and there's a smell coming out and the. And the neighbors are like, what's that smell? Why are there flies everywhere?

[Podcast Host]

What's the oldest body you've seen? Decomposed.

[Matt]

Probably a couple months. Damn. And it depends on what is the heat indexed? You know, is it hot outside, cool outside? You know, ones that are buried, usually, they tend to stay more. Ground is moist and cold and. And so it, it keeps, you know, preserves the body. But, you know, if you're in. In heat, I mean, it can start to liquefy within hours.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

So start to really, really be bad in the summertime. It's especially out here in Vega.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

Oh my God.

[Podcast Host]

That's when you get the maggots.

[Matt]

The heat. Yeah, the heat and the maggots are just the flies and. Yeah, it's bad.

[Podcast Host]

Did that freak you out the first time you saw those maggots?

[Matt]

Yeah, you know, you never get used to the maggots, you know, either. Either you can see it but you can't smell it, or you can smell it and can't see it. That's usually the trade off, right? I can see it, no problem. I can eat there. I don't have any issues. But the smell, for me, it. It still to this day, sometimes it'll gag me.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

It'll make me throw up. Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I've never smelled maggots before.

[Matt]

It's so bad. It's like. Yeah, it's like garbage truck juice. Like, it's like, it's bad.

[Podcast Host]

That's nasty.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And when does the body start getting those on average?

[Matt]

You know, like I said, it depends on the heat index. It depends on how long have they been gone. It depends on what was going on in their body. Are they sick? Do they have any type of other illness going on? Cancer, such. Were they diabetic? Did they drink? You know, there's a sweet smell to a diabetic that has been in like ketoacidosis, for example, going to diabetic coma, that smell is a sweet. Because her blood sugar is just through the roof. So the smell of that, and then you mix that with death and it's almost like a sweet. Like a sweet. It's bad. Geez, it's pretty bad.

[Podcast Host]

This, this line of work must really desensitize you, right?

[Matt]

I mean, to a point. I. I think we have an average of maybe seven years that people work for us. And then it gets to the point where they're like, okay, enough's enough. They they need to move on, right? Because you know PTSD starts to come in because you all.

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[Podcast Host]

Go anywhere without it.

[Matt]

You see is death. It's not like we see a good story. A good story for us is one person lived and just a few other died right or or one died and few other live. But there's always going to be a death with us. It's very rare that we do get these suicides where somebody will shoot themselves under the neck and blow the front of their face off and they'll live, but for. Not for long. I mean, eventually that just adds to the problems, you know, for them, and then they. They end up killing themselves in another way. Jeez. You know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I'm sure you've seen some really gruesome scenes.

[Matt]

Really gruesome, man.

[Podcast Host]

What's the one that freaked you out the most?

[Matt]

I think that.

I mean, there's so many, but I think one of the ones that we ever did was we were training in Texas, and this guy had been up on methamphetamines for a long time, and I. And he cut his mother from her neck down to the top of her vagina.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God.

[Matt]

And then took, like, tree cutters and cut her rib cage open and then was eating her liver while he masturbated.

[Podcast Host]

What?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane. Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God.

[Matt]

And then. So they arrest him. He. He had been high on meth so long that he just didn't know what he was doing. And so a couple days go by, and he detoxes, and. And. And he keeps asking for his mother. Hey, where's my mom? Let me get a phone call. I want to get bailed out. And.

Apparently, from what I hear, he found out what he did through another inmate or something, and he hung himself down. Killed himself.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. He couldn't live with it.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, you know, who. Who does that to their mother, right? No matter what kind of relationship you have, eating her liver while you masturbate is pretty savage.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, that's insane.

[Matt]

Pretty savage, man.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Yeah. You probably got people quitting when they see something like that. Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean, it's not for the faint of heart. That's for sure. That's for sure. We have. Women.

Actually make better technicians than men because they can handle more of the gruesome and the nonsense.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, I would have assumed the opposite.

[Matt]

No, no, no, no. I mean, women are nurturers. This is what they do. They're. They're mothers. They're. They can clean and throw up right where we're like, you know, anytime that there's anything like that. So. No, they. They make the best. They do. They make the.

[Podcast Host]

That's interesting.

[Matt]

And every time I get a. Application or somebody who talks to me on my podcast or whatever about it, usually the women are 90% more interested than the men. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Matt]

Yeah. You know, they like all that crime novel and.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, they love that stuff. The true crime.

[Matt]

Yeah. Flows through their veins.

[Podcast Host]

I, I'm not into it as much.

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[Matt]

I mean, I live it so like, I don't really. It's not like I watch it, but I, I mean you just see a lot of death, man. Yeah, the death is just so. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

[Podcast Host]

Have you ever had a clean up after a serial killer spree or something?

[Matt]

Yes, multiple times. Multiple times. Yeah, there's.

Yeah, there was a guy that was cutting people up. From what we understand they were. He was cutting them up and serving them in like a taco cart.

[Podcast Host]

Oh my gosh.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane. So, so that was in Cali.

[Matt]

Yeah. Parked on the side of the road and then serving these up and people were getting sick and going to the hospital and just throwing up and. Holy crap. And they test the meat and it's, it's human meat and they're like, you know, and it's multiple people, not just one. And it's all in, in, in one area and then apparently he goes to another area and so they, they've labeled him definitely a serial killer.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane.

[Matt]

Just nuts. So. Which you only hear.

12% of really what happens in your area anywhere, even Vegas or, or, or Los Angeles or, you know, they're not telling you everything.

[Podcast Host]

Not even close.

[Matt]

No, no. Because there'd be pandemonium with everybody be like, what? Like, I didn't know this. I didn't. You know how many times somebody will tell me I didn't know that. I'm, I didn't know this. Yeah, man, it's like it's there or they'll put it out as.

Very minute at the bottom of the page type, you know?

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

Like out of sight, out of mind.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, they'll hide it. When I was in college there was a few deaths and yeah, they hit. They hid them pretty much.

[Matt]

A lot of suicides or odds.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, some Adderall stuff, some drug over odds.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

But they, they hit it.

[Matt]

Yeah, drug o. These are real stinky too.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Matt]

Yeah. So I don't know if it's the body trying to push out the. Whatever it has taken in, you know, but yeah, it's.

[Podcast Host]

Are you in a Hazmat suit when you show up?

[Matt]

Oh yeah, we're in a full Tyvek suit. Respirator. Depending on, depending on what, what scene it is. You know, sometimes we'll have a self contained breathing apparatus like, like, like a scuba tank almost comes in. Sometimes we'll have people call them gas masks, but they'll have cartridges on. Sometimes we'll have a disposable. It just depends on what is happening. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane, man.

[Matt]

It's gnarly.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. But it's needed because if no one was doing this, you know.

[Matt]

Yeah. So. So I. The phone calls that I get that aren't from an agency would be like, hey man, the corners left, the police left, the firemen left and there's a pile of blood or brains or teeth or fingernails or whatever. And they just said, yeah, we'll see you later. I mean that, that's really is. Happens every scene. Police, police and firemen are there for an emergency. Emergency's done, body's gone, everybody's out. They're not there to be a molly maid service. They're not there to clean it up.

[Podcast Host]

Right. They just got to remove the body.

[Matt]

Just remove it and, and whatever is smaller than two fists is left. So like I said, fingers, eyeballs, teeth, blood, guts, intestines, all that is left. So you can't just pick it up and throw it away because there's airborne pathogens, there's bloodborne pathogens, there's all kind. You don't know what this person died of. There's so much things that you can get sick from, but they leave it. So then we have to come in and you know, we bill the homeowner's insurance, which covers it. Usually 90% of of our work is insurance work. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

So if you pass away in your house, the homeowner's insurance has to cover that, correct?

[Matt]

Yep, yep. It's built into your, your Policy, it'd be like a flood or like, like if your house floods, your homeowner's insurance covers it, it falls under that umbrella except for it would be a bloodborne pathogen. Now what they're starting to do is exclude that.

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[Matt]

Out on. Policies because it can be very expensive for us to come in and clean up Biohazard. It's not like water, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, there's not many people that could do what you do.

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean there's only a few companies. You know, I think in California you have to be on what they call a crime scene practitioners list to do this. And there was like.

600 numbers on there, but they just revised the list and I think it's down to like 250 actual companies.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. They got rid of a lot. I wonder what happened.

[Matt]

Well, companies that just don't do it on a regular, they don't keep up the certifications, they don't keep up the insurances, they don't keep up a lot, you know, so they end up finding something else that's more lucrative in, in the field, you know, and they, they stick to that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And your county, Louisiana county, there's a lot of deaths every day, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, it's like, I think it's like 12, 1266 deaths a day, I believe.

[Podcast Host]

Which is crazy when you think about it.

[Matt]

266 people a day. Now that's stillbirths, that's hospital deaths, car accidents, homicides, suicides. That could be people that die in homeless encampments. These are terrorist attacks. These are just all generic into death. So however somebody could die. Industrial accidents. We did, I think a week ago. We had a guy die on a freeway. A concrete mover ran over his leg and it ran it up so high that they couldn't get a tourniquet onto it right away. And he just.

[Podcast Host]

Oh my gosh. Sounds terrible.

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean, you know, you know you're dying. There's nothing that can, that can save you at that point.

[Podcast Host]

That's nuts. You just got to accept it. Right?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

There's another death that we do.

That is where somebody who has drank most of their life gets varicose veins on their esophagus. And eventually these varicose veins, depending on your heartburn or what you eat, will burst.

[Podcast Host]

Geez.

[Matt]

And there's nothing you can do. You're going to bleed out. And every single time we do this, there's bloody handprints on the bathroom sink like this. And they're looking into the mirror like, and they're as they're throwing up blood because it's, it's just constant blood. You're. You're bleeding out. You, like you hit a main artery, but you're bleeding out through your mouth or your rectum.

[Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Matt]

Just coming out. So they look in the mirror and it's like, I know I'm dying. And they just look at themselves. And then finally they go, but everyone I've been to have bloody handprints like that.

[Podcast Host]

Like, dude.

[Matt]

Holy.

[Podcast Host]

That's got to be one of the worst ways to go out.

[Matt]

I think so. Cuz you're suffocating on your own blood and you're drowning and you're, and you're bleeding to death.

[Podcast Host]

It's like a slow, like painful death, right?

[Matt]

Oh, I, I think drowning or burning man. Burning is.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, burning's got to hurt the most.

[Matt]

I'd imagine it's got to be on the top 10.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, have you had any bodies burnt?

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, that smells pretty, pretty intense.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I bet.

[Matt]

Gets in your, in your hair, even through the suits. You know, you'll. Sometimes you have to, you have to take your clothes off in your garage.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

There's times that I've, I've had it in my clothes and I've taken them off in my garage and it'll start to make My garage smell. I just throw them away.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

I just gotta get new.

[Podcast Host]

It's that strong?

[Matt]

It's that bad.

[Podcast Host]

Burning flesh.

[Matt]

Burning flesh and even some dead bodies.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Even sometimes it just, it comes through that suit and it, it gets on you like a fog. Like you'll have to wash your ha. And you have to, it's, it gets in your eyebrows. It's, it's miserable. Jeez, the stench is just so bad. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I wonder how morgs and funeral homes deal with the smell.

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean they, they, they, they have a powder that you can use. We use tea bags or coffee grounds in our, in our masks. But it's still, you're gonna, it just, it's kind of like putting a Glade plug in. Right. It's, it's gonna mask the smell a little bit. But you're still gonna smell it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Damn.

[Podcast Host]

That's nuts, man. Do you believe in the spiritual side of things too? Like ghosts and spirits?

[Matt]

Yeah, I, I, Yeah, man. I believe that I've been, I, I believe I've been on scenes where.

Funky has kind of happened. You know, like something will turn on just out of nowhere or you know, one of our machines will just turn off and turn on and turn off and turn on and just freaky. That probably shouldn't be happening.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because if you're at a murder scene or a crime scene, there's probably some high energy going on there. Right?

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah. You gotta figure. Well, by the time we get there is.

12 to 24 hours after it's happened. But you have to figure 12 to 24 hours before that there was just, just massive crazy.

Fight, let's just say in there.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

You know, so some of that energy could still be there. You believe in.

[Podcast Host]

I do, yeah.

[Matt]

I believe in ghost spirits.

[Podcast Host]

I don't know what to call it, but yeah, whatever. Like people have different labels.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I think there's another realm. Sure. Where when you die, you know, you're still kind of there.

[Matt]

Yeah. They say it's a seven minute once you die. I've heard this from, from many people that when you die there's like a seven minute. We'll just call it a replay. I don't know if it's looking over your life. Looking over, maybe looking over your life, maybe looking over at your loved ones. I don't know. But there's seven minutes of just like, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. But no, I've heard that from near death experiences. There's a book on it. Yeah. Where like a thousand people all Reported that?

[Matt]

No.

[Podcast Host]

A life replay.

[Matt]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting, right?

[Matt]

I mean, imagine you're just your whole life, like, just. But is it a mind fuck? Like. Like you did this wrong, so. And now you're dead. You can't fix it. It'd be a.

[Podcast Host]

That would suck. Right?

[Matt]

It'd be miserable.

[Podcast Host]

Dying with regrets. That's why I try. Even though I'm, you know, fairly young, I still try to live with no regrets.

[Matt]

I mean, you have to live your life like it's your last day. You. You have to. And it doesn't mean you have to go out and, and do blow and, and, and Right. Like it not like nothing craz.

You know, we're not promised tomorrow. I have seen a lot of death and it's going to happen to all of us. That's the one thing that, you know is guaranteed in life, is death.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And you, you need to, you need to be prepared when it's your time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because you've probably seen some young people pass away.

[Matt]

I mean, that's the part of me that, that I think I struggle with the most because I'm a father.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And seeing kids get up is just got to be the.

[Podcast Host]

Probably the worst because they're so innocent.

[Matt]

Yeah. There's no, there's no. What. What did they do? What. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. I just don't. I just don't. I just don't. It's. It's a deal.

[Podcast Host]

Man, that would be hard. I can't even pitch a young boy or girl just seeing that.

[Matt]

Yeah, we, we did a house in Calabasas, Hidden Hills, which is in the Calabasas area, but where a lot of predominant people live. I think, I think the Kardashians live in, in Hidden Hills and, and, and a few other people. Anyway, we did a, we did a house in, in Hidden Hills and they had an elevator in there. It went up three stories, up and down. Elevators have. It's a safety switch in there and basically when the doors open, it stops the elevator and then that way the doors can shut and nothing gets caught up top. Nothing gets caught on the bottom.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And this, this safety switch that was like 75 bucks went out. So. Safety switch goes out and it's like 75 bucks. And they're like, no, we'll just, we'll just do this, do that, whatever it is. So we, we go and hear these two little legs sticking out because this, this, this elevator had come down, smashed this kid.

[Podcast Host]

Oh my gosh.

[Matt]

Killed this kid. Like $75. You live in a, probably a 6, 7 million dollar home. That's crazy. Like you have an elevator in your home, you can afford 75. Right. I mean nuts. So, so.

Now the parents who will probably not survive their marriage. Right? Because I think it's like 89% of people that have a child died end up getting divorced.

[Podcast Host]

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's a crazy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, because they probably blame each other, right?

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, you blame and you never get over that. Right. And then here's another thing. The other children will always be affected because the child that died is always going to be here. But on this pedestal where these other children don't really get the, I mean they still get love from their parents, but not like, not the same focus that you know where a living person is. And they take, I think the parents then take for granted the kids that are still living. Because everybody wants to know why, why, why did they go what happened? And you focus so much on that and everybody does it. Right. It happens even in a breakup, like what the fuck did I do? What do we, what, what, what, what, what? And you focus on that. You know, a couple months go by, you're okay with the death of a child. I mean that could go on for a long time. Go on for a lifetime.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, most, I'd say most people probably can't recover from something like that.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, and, and they never fully recover and they, I don't think they're ever going to be the same either.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know, it's. Something with them is going to change.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That would mess me up, dude.

[Matt]

Yeah. Can you imagine? I mean, how old are you?

[Podcast Host]

28.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I'm about to have kids soon, get married this year.

[Matt]

Can you imagine? Like it'd be gnarly, dude. Like just, you're like, man, it's, it's, it's a, it's a. That's one of the worst. It is the worst thing of, of my job is to, is to see a child or.

Any type of person under the age of 18. Not that when you hit 18, it's like it's better, but I think it.

You cope a little bit better. You, you know, from my standpoint, I can cope better with an 18 year old than I can a 10 year old.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because they've lived some life. It's, it's not like.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Like 10, you haven't lived at all. Really.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean you, yeah. You haven't done much. You haven't done much. You know, and I think people take that for granted. You know, so there, you know, everybody is so worried about this and that and this and that. You know, do what makes you happy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Because you're not promised tomorrow.

[Podcast Host]

No. 100%. Yeah. Time flies, man.

[Matt]

Dude, I mean, I mean, think about it. 10 years ago you were 18.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Just out of high school. Right. And now you're doing all this in just 10 short.

[Podcast Host]

I know. My reunion is this year. 10 year reunion. I can't believe it.

[Matt]

I mean, it's crazy, right?

[Podcast Host]

I got so many memories from high school. It feels like yesterday.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Matt]

And I'm sure you're just like, what the buck? Like, how did it even become this? And now like you said, you're about to have kids and marriage and you're about to be 30 and next thing you know you're going to be 40 and 50. You're like, where did this go? Yeah. You know, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have done that. Even me, who lives like that. I, I mean, I do. I live my life.

Is, is day by day as possible and like it. No regrets. But there's even times where I'm like, man, I'm be 50 this year. Like, what happened?

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

Where am I at?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Like, holy crazy.

[Matt]

Yeah, man.

[Podcast Host]

Has your view on death changed since starting this line of work?

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean, in, in the beginning I was just more of a.

I was more of a. This is a paycheck, let's get it going. I would eat at the scene because.

[Podcast Host]

That'S crazy to me.

[Matt]

I could care less. And now I think it's like, oh, dude, I see so much. In fact, I've. I've gotten to the point now where I try not to go to scenes anymore because it has. I think, I think I got some PTSD from it.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, you definitely have. There's no way you don't.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's just, it's with my head quite a bit, so I, I try to stay away from it. I have a, a good business partner this, that when I started the company. He came on shortly after and, and you know, worked out a little deal and he. And David is. He's an amazing dude and he, he takes care of a lot of that, knowing what I have to go through.

And so because of that, you know, I, I owe a lot to David too, because without David, he. I don't think we'd be doing as, as well as we are either, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And I buy little smaller companies that you know, when they pop up, I try to buy them. And, you know, people that. That, that. That have some coming, but they're not. They're not doing as the volume that we're doing, you know, because a lot of people think they can do this business. A lot of. A lot of people, they can do. They can do this job. And then they get there and they hold their first eyeball, and it sets into reality. I've had people faint, grow up, pass out, you know, and I'm out of shape. I don't want to be carrying you like a firefighter. And then I'm out of breath, and I'm. I'm discombobulated, and I'm having to drink water, and I'm irritated. I'm like, this sucks. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. You actually had someone, like, pass out?

[Matt]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. One of my first. First jobs is guy walks in and he's like, I could do it. I've seen this in the streets and that in the streets. We get in there and he starts doing this, and I'm like, don't you pass out. I swear. Because he's a big dude. And he did. He passed out. Dragging him and dragging him. And I'm out of breath, and I get outside and I'm throwing up because I'm out of breath. And you're in the suits, so. In the suits. It's 22 degrees hotter in the suits.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Matt]

Yeah. And you're sweating and you have a respirator on, so you're not getting as much oxygen either. I mean, it's. It's miserable.

[Podcast Host]

Jeez. I see. Must have been something else for him, street guy, to throw up like that or pass out like that.

[Matt]

And then. And then you're. You're. You're. You know, your deodorant starts to wear off, so now you're musty and you're in the suit, and you're just. You're like, dude, enough. Dude, like, enough, you know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So I don't think that scene was that bad. It was a. It was a homicide or it was a. This guy tried to kill his wife, and she ended up living, and he ended up shooting and killing himself and just blood everywhere.

[Podcast Host]

He had chased her all over, and he shot himself.

[Matt]

Shot himself? Yeah. Yeah, he was. He was a. He was a cop, too. Geez. He's a correctional officer. And they. He smoked himself.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God.

[Matt]

After. After shooting his old lady.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think your PTSD was a compilation of all the scenes or was it specific ones that really.

[Matt]

I Just think it was a. A compilation of everything, man. I mean, you see all this and these kids and this and that, and you're like, dude, you know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And. And you know, there's other too. There's, there's, there's my natural life that happens. You know what I'm saying? So you got natural life going on, right? Plus all this other shit. So. So yeah, it's. It's compilation, but I think that the scenes are for sure. Did it.

[Podcast Host]

Have you found any methods on kind of healing that or helping in any way?

Psychedelics. Have you tried those?

[Matt]

So I'm sober, I don't drink. I don't. I don't do any drugs. I don't do any of that because I like to be in control.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But a lot of people have been telling me that I need to micro dose mushrooms.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that it is.

[Matt]

Does wonders for ptsd. And actually.

A buddy of mine, Billy, that used to work for the ufc, him and Dana swear by, you know, microdosing for PTSD really, really does help. But I'm nervous that I'm in a bad trip and.

[Podcast Host]

You can't have a bad trip on a microdose.

[Matt]

No, no, for sure.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, I've never heard of it. I've met hundreds of people that have microdose. I. Microdose. You could probably have like weird feelings. But if in order to have a bad trip, you have to be hallucina training, you have to be on a full dose.

[Matt]

So micro dosing is just a small dose and.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So what does it do?

[Podcast Host]

You're taking 1/10 of an actual dose.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

So you still get like a little like. It's hard to explain, but you're not seeing anything, you're not hallucinating.

[Matt]

So what is exactly does it do then?

[Podcast Host]

Just rewires your brain? I don't know the exact science behind it, to be honest. There's more better people that can explain that.

[Matt]

Do you feel like what you take it for, whatever it is, that it helps? That specific.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I take it for productivity and if I need like just inspiration.

[Matt]

Gotcha.

[Podcast Host]

So I'll take it like maybe once a month.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

I know some people take it every day, some people take it once a week. Not they're dealing with more major issues like ptsd, anxiety, depression. So.

[Matt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I have done a full dose too, and that pretty much cured my mental issues.

[Matt]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

In Amsterdam, where it's legal. Yeah.

[Matt]

No.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So you went to Amsterdam.

[Podcast Host]

That wasn't the main intention. We were just there. I Was young, stupid, and. Yeah, you could walk in and buy it.

[Matt]

Sure, sure.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. But it helped a lot with my mental health. No, I don't have any anxiety anymore, actually.

[Matt]

Yeah, that, I mean, I, I, that's why I quit drinking and everything else, because my anxiety from this job is just put me through the roof.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, I bet.

[Matt]

You know, where I'm just, like, on edge.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Drinking probably makes it way worse.

[Matt]

Oh, it's so bad. Yeah, it's so bad. And then, you know, my, my, my younger brother was killed.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

Murdered. So I had that going on. You know, my relationship with my mother wasn't the greatest. My relationship with baby mothers weren't the greatest. I mean, it just, it was fucking piling up. I know. Then I started doing this job, and the next thing you know, I'm fucking everybody that even looks at me in a different way. I think they're, fuck, they want to kill me. You know what I mean? Like, it's just weird.

[Podcast Host]

So you were paranoid?

[Matt]

Paranoid for sure. Well, not, yeah, something like that, but more anxiety. Just fucking heart palpitations. Just like, fuck, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm to die. And I was going to the hospital and they're like, dude, there's nothing wrong with you. What the is wrong with. Yeah, your heart's fine. Like, you need to chill, man. And, and so I went to therapist and I, I did this and I did that, and I quit drinking and smoking on the same day, cold turkey. No meetings, no nothing. And that helped.

By 80%, to be honest with you. Um, you know, and then I was able to start slow breathing in through my nose, out through my mouth, counting.

So I got it pretty well under control at this point. But it's not like, it's not perfect, I can tell you that. It's. It's still. There's still. But I would definitely try microdosing if. But it just makes me nervous.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I could feel that. There's a lot of relation with physical health and mental health, too.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So if your physical, like, health is terrible, like, there's a good chance your mental health.

[Matt]

Yeah, I eat like, I eat horrible.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So that probably I'm also, when you're at a crime scene, it's not like you can just bring your lunch. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

It's.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because it takes a full day to clean up. Right.

[Matt]

Oh, it could take weeks to clean.

[Podcast Host]

Weeks.

[Matt]

Weeks.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Matt]

Weeks.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

It depends. It's. So you can only. Per OSHA regulations, you can only be in these suits for.

Depending on the temperature outside. But, but the longest you want to be in those suits is 50 hours or 50 minutes.

[Podcast Host]

So go.

[Matt]

So, so you have to come out of the suits, you have to hydrate, you have to take a 15 minute break. You got to cool down, let the body make sure everything is good. You don't want your kidneys to start failing. Right. And so the hotter it is outside, the less time you can be in the suits. So at variables, in the wintertime, you stay a little bit longer. We usually do about an hour in the suits, but in the, in the summertime, 30 to 45 minutes.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. Yeah, it's like a sauna in there.

[Matt]

Yeah. And then you got these latex gloves on and they're doubled up, right? And we got booties on and you know, you'll peel your gloves off and it's just, it's just a full glass of water coming out.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. You're sweating that much.

[Matt]

Oh, you're sweating bad.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

Bad, bad. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I wonder if they can invent something more efficient. But it'd be tough.

[Matt]

It'd be tough, man. Those latex gloves are, they're, they're so bad. They're so bad.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Matt]

I mean, you sweat and the suit doesn't make, you know, because we put them underneath. And then it's taped up. And it's taped up, so there's no way of air getting in at all. Damn. And then you have this respirator and it slows down your breathing. And so it's, it's tough. Jeez. It is tough.

[Podcast Host]

You mentioned agencies earlier. So you're getting calls from agencies to clean these up sometimes.

[Matt]

So each county is different, right? So LA county, it is against the law for any agency to give you.

Work. And the reason is, is that, let's say the coroner's office says, here you go, this is who we recommend. And we do something that is unethical or we do something that is.

Not up to par, whatever mistakes happen. Right. Y la county corner does not want to be responsible for what a private company does. It's cover your ass. Right? We get it. So in those types of counties, they will hand them a paper with a list of five, five different companies on there and they'll go, here's a list of companies that we known throughout. Or you can look on the, on the, on the California crime scene practitioner list and go from there. And then they'll pick and choose.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, got it.

[Matt]

You know, depending on your SEO and where you're at, you know, Google is your. Your best bet. People use Google a lot. Word of mouth is also, you know, pretty good.

So Yelp, which sounds crazy that people go on Yelp, but they do.

[Podcast Host]

They go on Yelp for this. That's crazy. I go on Yelp for restaurant reviews.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, they go. They go on Yelp and. And they leave. I mean.

Every business has. Every business in the world has good reviews and bad reviews. Everyone.

[Podcast Host]

Facts.

[Matt]

Just some are. Have more. I have a really good. I think it's 4.9, which is probably the highest you can get. I got one or two bad reviews.

[Podcast Host]

You can't please everyone.

[Matt]

No. And remember, a loved one just died, so you're not in your right state of mind. There might be things that I've told you and you have just missed it.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

And then you're like, I don't remember you saying that. Well, listen, I've been doing this a long time. I'm not going to lie to you. This is what it is. You know? But, yeah, there. I mean, you know, and then there's times that we. I got a bad review from a guy that. His.

Wife was killed by her boyfriend.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

So. So it was his wife. They were. They were estranged. So it was. His wife was dating a new guy. And the. And the. And the guy beat her with a hammer in front of his kids.

[Podcast Host]

What?

[Matt]

And the guy was a pedophile.

So the. The other. The husband said, can I ask you a question? And I said, sure. He goes, you know, am I a bad father for allowing my kids to be around that guy? And I said, you do not want me to answer that question. Let's just move on to, you know, what we're doing here. No, no, I need to hear this. Are you a father? I am. Okay. At the time, I was married. Are you married? Yes. Okay. What would you have done? I said, I would never allow a child molester to be around my kids.

[Podcast Host]

So he was on the list, like the child defender list?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And he knew that, and he knew it.

[Matt]

So I said. So he says, so you're saying it's my fault? And I go, you asked me a question. I'm telling you this. I would never allow that. And fuck you. Fuck your kids. I hope. I hope this happens to you. I mean, just lost this shit. And I go, well, again. And he's just. Just jamming at me and jabbing at me and fuck your kids. And I can't. I'll kill them, too. I mean, just. And I said, it's no wonder that your old lady got beat by a pedophile, just, you know, just to dig it in. So I got a bad review for that, and I'll accept that. You know, I shouldn't have said that.

[Podcast Host]

But it got personal with that.

[Matt]

Yeah. You start threatening my kids, what do you think is gonna happen? Right. You poke the bear so many times, it's gonna happen. Everybody has a breaking point. You do, too. I mean, you're the most mellow probably.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, I got a point.

[Matt]

Yeah, but you got a point, too, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Somebody keeps poking and poking you.

[Podcast Host]

It's hard to get me angry, though. I'll say that.

[Matt]

But you. But you have.

[Podcast Host]

I do have a tippy point. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. If you threaten someone I really care about.

[Matt]

Sure. Right. You said you're about to get married. Somebody threatens your. Your fiance, you're gonna lose. You lose your, like, you know, at that point, you go into. It doesn't matter how big they are, how bad they are.

[Podcast Host]

Firefly.

[Matt]

Yeah. You're gonna do what you have to do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know, and. Or die trying. Right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So bad reviews aren't avoidable. I used to stress over them, but I did, too. You literally can't please everyone. You could have the best service or product.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You just can't do it, man.

[Matt]

And, you know, somebody. Somebody gave me some advice one time, and.

He says, it's actually my son. My son is 23 years old. He's got a master's degree in psychology. And he says to me, dad, look, you're so worried about these two bad reviews like you want to. Because I asked him, should I go back and. And. And. And say my side of it? And he's like, for what? Like, for what? All you're doing is rehashing it. These are years ago. You're just rehashing it. And you're rehashing old wounds for them, too. Leave it alone. And so since he told me that, he's like, what do you care? Like, what do you care? Those people do not make your life. Everybody else who knows you and knows who you are and the kind of man you are and the kind of father you are, they don't care. And he's right.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

What do I care? So I live by that.

[Podcast Host]

I love that. Yeah. I really only value opinions of people I respect or care about.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, I'll listen to them. I think it's important to listen to. I think it's important to listen to everybody's side of opinion because there's things that, you know, learning every day is important.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

When you stop learning and you think you're a know it all, that's. That can become.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You know, I see that battle with a lot of successful people with their ego.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, you think because you've made 3, 4, 5, 6, $10 million, that you can stop learning. I've seen people lose 10, $20 million. I mean, big athlete, look at them same. Right. Just lose millions and you go, how in the did you lose? You know what I mean? Like, it beneath. It's. It's. It boggles my mind, but it also boggles my mind how somebody could be a heroin addict. But it happens, you know? So, yeah, I get it.

[Podcast Host]

I guess it used to really boggle my mind when I see people lose money like that, but now that I'm getting closer and actually hearing their perspective on the podcast, it's like, yeah, that could happen. Almost anyone. You know, a divorce here or there, and then a bad financial investment, you know, you get wrecked.

[Matt]

One bad financial investment is. Can ruin you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I've lost. So I've lost my money twice now, and I'm only 28, so it's like, damn, I got some. I'm glad I got that perspective because some people that never happens to until they're like 40 and they got kids.

[Matt]

But you needed that, right?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, I needed it.

[Matt]

You need.

[Podcast Host]

I was making millions and cocky.

[Matt]

Right, Right.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And just thought you were just untouchable.

[Podcast Host]

Untouchable.

[Matt]

And then you lost it.

[Podcast Host]

You're like, yeah, and I lost it because of my own mistake. That's the thing. It wasn't like I randomly lost it. It was my fault. So you got to take accountability for it, too.

[Matt]

And, and do you. Do. Do you. Did you. You feel like you learned from that?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah. I'm so careful with what I invest in now. I just made some really stupid investments. I got really emotional with some of them and. Nah, you can't do that.

[Matt]

I'm glad you said it, because that was. That's the biggest thing, is there's no emotion in an investment.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Take. You have to take the emotion out of it.

[Podcast Host]

You have to.

[Matt]

If you don't, you're.

[Podcast Host]

You're. Yeah. And that's why I keep friendships and investments separate now.

[Matt]

It's mandatory.

[Podcast Host]

I've lost some friends. So.

[Matt]

I mean.

My son and I, we had this conversation, and he would say to me, why do you loan this person 50 bucks when you know they're not going to pay you back? I said, because that Person will duck and dodge me for 50 bucks forever. And I never have to worry about this person asking me again for it was worth. For me, it was worth to lose the 50 bucks. Right? Because you kind of know where people are. Because I've had people come to me and want me to invest in this hair brain thing and I'm like, no. Oh, you're different because now you've made money and you're, you're, you know, oh, money's changed you. And it's like, no, motherfucker, I just don't want to invest in that. Like that's crazy. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, if it's that great of an idea, draw me up a business proposal. Let me read it. Well, why. I'm just telling you. No, no, do it right. This is what a bank would want to see if you were going to go in, right. And ask for a loan. And they. And it's like, but you're not a bank. Well, then why are you asking me for a loan, you know, or invest in and you know, one of your hair brain, you know, whatab burgers.

[Podcast Host]

So, yeah, they never drop the plan once you ask for it.

[Matt]

I've never had, I've, I've never had a person when I say, hey man, draw it up. Let's do it. Let's check it out. Never had. Never with a business plan. Never. Not one time. But if you're not willing to put in the weeks and hours and days that it takes to drop a business proposal, what the. Do I want to get into business with you?

[Podcast Host]

Facts.

[Matt]

Long term business. Out of here.

[Podcast Host]

You plan on transferring this to your son one day? Are you gonna sell it before then?

[Matt]

He doesn't want it.

[Podcast Host]

Why?

[Matt]

None of my kids want.

[Podcast Host]

Did you ask them why?

[Matt]

I've asked every one of them and they're just not into any of it. They don't want any part of the death.

They just don't want it. So I'll probably end up selling it as a whole or piecing out each office.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But I'd like to sell it as a whole one day, you know, eventually.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Or David can take it.

[Podcast Host]

Is there like a big nationwide company that does this, that would buy this?

[Matt]

Yeah. So Aftermath is the biggest. They're the Walmart of this.

The issue is, is that they are not well liked with the insurance companies because of their billing practices.

They throw a lot of red flags. In fact, I have been asked multiple times by insurance companies to review their bills.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Matt]

Yeah. And they Pay me to do that.

[Podcast Host]

So they just overinflate numbers or big time. Damn.

[Matt]

Big time.

[Podcast Host]

That's not cool.

[Matt]

I mean, I think they feel like. Because insurance is big money, right?

[Podcast Host]

That's true, too. Yeah. It's both sides of the story, right?

[Matt]

Yeah. But, you know, you got to look at it, right? Insurance is. Is a scam.

[Podcast Host]

Pretty much, yeah. The more I get older, the more.

[Matt]

I realize the minute that you try to use your homeowner's insurance, it's a act of Congress to get something done.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You got to fight for it.

[Matt]

But they want their payment, you know, and then you have a somebody die in your home, which is like, usually not. Not the fault of your own.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Matt]

And then it's like, it's. It's jumping through hoops to get these people.

[Podcast Host]

I had to fight when my car got broken into.

[Matt]

Yeah, right.

[Podcast Host]

With lemonade.

[Matt]

Talking about, you know, a window and a few whatever personal items you had in there. Whatever. And they. They don't want to do it. They don't pay for it.

[Podcast Host]

They actually. Dude, they're starting to do this. They stalk your social media. Isn't that crazy?

[Matt]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So my car got broken into.

[Matt]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

They were stalking my social media to see if I was using the car for business because it was personal insurance. Personal commercial insurance. So they found. I posted one time I was transporting, like, sports cards in my car.

[Matt]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

So I didn't get the full claim because of that. Isn't that crazy?

[Matt]

I think that they are going to. In. So in California, a lot of insurance companies have moved out of California and stopped covering anybody or anything. In California.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. After the fires. Right.

[Matt]

Even before the fires, they, they just pretty much told them, now you take us to court.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And then they're, you know, you're wrapped up in court for four or five years before you get anything. Meanwhile, the property's empty, your personal property's gone. You have nothing.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. So that's probably making your. Your job really hard, right?

[Matt]

I mean. Yeah, it. You know. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Because Cali's your biggest market, right?

[Matt]

Cali's my number one market for sure. Damn sure. You know, Vegas, everybody thinks that Vegas is, like.

Crazy, but remember, Vegas sweeps everything under the rug, right? Like where LA county gets 12%, you guys probably get 6 if you're lucky. All the people that die in hotels, we sign nine NDAs, right. We. We can't discuss the. Any hotel that anybody dies in at any time that is not national news. Like, you know, the, the. The Route 66 or Route 91. Like, of course that was televised. Anything else? You're never going to hear about it.

[Podcast Host]

I've never seen a single news article about a Vegas hotel death.

[Matt]

Of course not.

[Podcast Host]

And I know it's happening.

[Matt]

And multiple times a week. Yeah, there's a lot of overdoses, suicides. A lot.

[Podcast Host]

That's why they removed balconies. People were jumping off.

[Matt]

That's right. Because what they do is people are like, well, this is my last hoorah. I'm gonna go to Vegas and get some blow and some hookers and then I'm gonna. I'm gonna check out. Happens all the time.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Matt]

But they don't. They. You'll never hear about it.

[Podcast Host]

Never.

[Matt]

No. No, because then it. Then it. It deters people from coming to the hotel.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It ruins business.

[Matt]

Death is bad. Nobody wants to. Nobody wants to know, you know, if somebody died, drowned in your pool, this, that. Nope.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Close that whole floor off. Get a company in there, get it back to normal before you even know.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. They'll close the whole floor.

[Matt]

Well, maybe a section, but Yeah. I don't want anybody on there.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

While we're on there, they'll close it all down. They want us to come in, all plane vehicles, pull around the back because most of our trucks have crime scene cleaner across.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah, you got to remove that.

[Matt]

Flashing lights. Well, we have. We have vehicles that are just plain for that reason.

[Podcast Host]

And you can't even wear shirts or.

[Matt]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

And you come at night time when everyone's sleeping.

[Matt]

Depends. But yeah, I mean, we'll come in. In regular, regular clothes and you know, we're one up service elevators and. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. How do you take the body down without people seeing?

[Matt]

No, we don't touch the body.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you don't corner. Oh, God. Corner.

[Matt]

Touch the body. We just take the parts or the. The remnants of what was left.

[Podcast Host]

Got it?

[Matt]

Yeah. So we take it down. We have a. Like a 96 gallon trash can. Right. That you put out in front of your yard. We have those. And they're red, which equals biohazard. Take those down service elevators where nobody else is. And. Oh yeah, they. They're not gonna. They're not gonna take a. That's nuts. And you know what else does that too, is airports do that a lot.

[Podcast Host]

Really? People die at airports.

[Matt]

People die in airports all the time.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Matt]

OD's a lot.

[Podcast Host]

I did not expect that. OGs at airports. I wonder why they're doing it at the airport.

[Matt]

I think people get anxiety or, you know, and able to Fly. They need to. Whatever it is. I. I'm just guessing, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I don't like to fly, but I have to. I have to take a. Anti anxiety medication. Really like freaks me out.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. Especially these days. Right?

[Matt]

Yeah. Right. I mean, what was there, 82 crashes since 2025 started? 82.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Matt]

That's like the. The most in FAA history.

[Podcast Host]

And I hate to say it, but I feel like it's only going to.

[Matt]

Get worse because I mean, These planes are 30 years old, right. They're being maintained as well. They're, you know, look, look at the job market, right? Where kids these days don't give a right about what they do. What makes it any different? Building airplanes or.

[Podcast Host]

Well, they rushed a lot of them building cars, right? Even the newer ones. I'm not even like faithful in those.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, the private jets, right? All that, you think, oh, private jet. Way safer. Technically it's not. Yeah, actually kind of worse.

[Podcast Host]

I try to drive everywhere. I just drove the Sedona, it was like five hours. But I'd rather do that than fly there.

[Matt]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, you can do it at your own pace. You could just. Just chill, enjoy the ride, you know, depending on who you're with.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Facts, all that matters.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, it's been. Been fun where people watch you watch your podcast and keep up with you, man.

[Matt]

Yeah, dying to see me is my Instagram and my podcast. I kind of quit doing shows for about six months. I had. My mom passed away. I had just a bunch of life happening. But I just got my studio built. I was talking to you about it. Yeah, it's my own studio. I own the property. I own everything. So now I don't have to jump around because it's. It's a lot. But yeah, dying to see me on Instagram and Spotify and YouTube and all that stuff. You can find me on there. And yeah, we'll have to get you to come on there. I'm going to be out here too, doing some filming.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we'll line it up, man. Thanks for coming on today. That was fun.

[Matt]

Thanks for having me.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, check them out, guys. Check out the pod. See you guys next time.

[Matt]

Later.