Irfan Peci: Caught Between Two Worlds: A Spy’s Dangerous Mission | DSH #1489

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode #1489
Guest: Irfan Peci | Host: Sean Kelly
Aired: August 13, 2025
Episode Title: "Irfan Peci: Caught Between Two Worlds: A Spy’s Dangerous Mission"

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Overview

In this gripping episode of Digital Social Hour, Sean Kelly sits with Irfan Peci, a former radical Islamist turned intelligence informant, to unpack his extraordinary journey—from a teenage religious seeker in Germany, through radicalization and arrest, to a secret life working undercover for German intelligence. Peci exposes the psychological and moral complexities of extremism, the inner workings of counterterrorism, and personal redemption. The conversation is raw, intense, and incredibly honest about the dangers, regrets, and transformation that defined Irfan's life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Path to Radicalization

• Background: Irfan, born in Serbia and raised in Germany, describes an ordinary childhood, later marked by deep religious curiosity.
  • Quote: “And then with 14, 15, I was interested in religion and searching for truth... I start to read the Quran and everything.” [01:21]
• Escalation: Introduced to radical Islam by local mentors, who initially taught religious practices before shifting to political jihad.
  • Quote: “Later it starts with politics and a jihad. To fight holy war is a duty for every Muslim. And at that time, to be honest, I like it.” [02:12]
• Intentions vs. Actions: Irfan stresses his motivation wasn’t evil—he wanted to be “a good Muslim” and followed what he believed to be religious duty, even embracing violence.
  • Quote: “If it means that I have to kill non-believers or go to war, I will go to war.” [02:36]

2. Arrest and Life in Isolation

• Internet Propaganda and Arrest: Irfan was tracked by German intelligence due to his radical online activity, before he could join foreign fighters in Afghanistan.
  • Quote: “They observed me for one year... My intention was to go to Afghanistan to fight.” [03:15]
• Survival: His arrest arguably saved his life—almost all his peers died in drone strikes or ended up in prison.
  • Quote: “13 are dead... most of them through CIA drone attacks.” [03:58]
• High Security Prison: Spent a year alone in isolation at age 19, leading to deep reflection.
  • Quote: “I was 23, sometimes 24 hours alone in isolation... And I was there for one year.” [04:30]
• Turning Point: Isolation prompted critical thinking and a rejection of violence.
  • Quote: “In jail... after six months in isolation. I say I don’t want that anymore. When they release me, I will start a new life.” [06:01]

3. Recruitment by German Intelligence and Undercover Work

• Offer to Inform: Upon his release, German intelligence approached Irfan due to his connections and knowledge of radical circles.
  • Quote: “They say, look, that's good... But why you don't start to work for us? Because you know, a lot of dangerous guys.” [06:22]
• Motivations for Cooperation: Driven by guilt and a desire to make amends; he saw it as a chance to “give something back” to Germany.
  • Quote: “I feel kind of guilty... I saw that like an opportunity to do something good.” [06:38, 07:39]
• Berlin Operations: Sent as an undercover agent among Berlin’s radical Islamist networks.
  • Quote: “Berlin was the hotspot of jihadis... I go back in as something like an undercover agent.” [08:05–08:42]

4. Preventing Terrorist Attacks

• Thwarting Plots: Helped prevent at least one terrorist attack in Berlin by outing a plotter before action.
  • Quote: “And we did a lot of good, important things... I was able to prevent one terrorist attack.” [08:47–09:04]
• Pre-emptive Identification: Helped stop 20–25 potential fighters from leaving for jihad, identifying suspicious behaviors.
  • Quote: “I think we prevent around 20, 25 people, radical Islamists to go to war and to kill people.” [11:48–12:02]
• Techniques: Shared examples—catching a would-be fighter pretending to “go secular” to elude authorities.

5. Psychological Toll and Close Calls

• Stress and Burnout: Undercover work was immensely stressful and dangerous, eventually leading to burnout.
  • Quote: “I have a burnout because it was stressful. 24 hours stressful... if this will be revealed, then I’m done. They will kill me.” [12:42–13:08]
• Life-Threatening Situations: Narrowly escaped discovery when extracting data from a target’s laptop; a group of armed radicals unexpectedly visited his apartment shortly after.
  • Quote: “I have his laptop. And I was sitting with him, smiling, talking, and I take all the data... then after two, three hours, somebody’s knocking on my door... they came in... and I forget that my laptop is open with all the information...” [13:19–15:40]

6. Reflections, Politics, and the Future

• Current Life: No longer working for intelligence; identifies as a conservative, feels ostracized in Germany’s leftist media/political landscape.
  • Quote: “Today I’m more a conservative right wing guy. Germany is very leftist.” [16:30]
• Media and Legacy: Hopeful for a film adaptation of his life story but acknowledges the cultural and financial barriers in Europe.
  • Quote: “But I hope someday maybe American will see that and can make a Hollywood movie or something... it will be a great movie.” [17:10]
• YouTube and Outreach: Runs a German-language YouTube channel addressing his experiences and beliefs, plans to do more in English.
  • Quote: “I have a YouTube channel...you can activate English subtitles...in the future I will do more more content in English.” [17:28]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If they would not arrest me, I would go with the other guys and then I will be dead and I will be killed or I would kill other people.”
  — Irfan Peci, 04:47
• “I feel guilty and responsible. And I saw that, like an opportunity to do something good...because Germany give us all.”
  — Irfan Peci, 06:38–07:39
• “There was two, three situation. It was very, very close.”
  — Irfan Peci, 13:09
• “I was dying in this moment. I was really dying... Because if they saw that, everything would be clear. Why should I take private pictures and data from his laptop?”
  — Irfan Peci, 15:49
• “They need to make a movie from your life.”
  — Sean Kelly, 16:14

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Irfan’s Early Path and Radicalization – [01:21–03:01]
• Arrest and Isolation Reflections – [03:14–05:05]
• Decision to Cooperate with Intelligence – [06:01–07:39]
• Undercover Experiences and Prevented Attack – [08:42–11:47]
• Life-Threatening Undercover Moment – [13:08–15:49]
• Political Commentary and Future Aspirations – [16:17–17:28]

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For More:

• Follow Irfan Peci on YouTube (mostly German-language; English subtitles/streams available).
• Episode captures the nuance of radicalization and the long road to redemption—an unforgettable, harrowing look into the hidden battles of one man caught between two worlds.

Transcript

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[Irfan Petsi]

I mean, it was not easy. I was in as a, as a terrorist, as a member of a terrorist organization. I was 23, sometimes 24 hours alone in isolation.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

And it was really hard with 19 years. I was 19 at that time in a high security prison. And I was there for one year. Jeez. Alone. Foreign.

[Sean Kelly]

Student Action Summit. Last interview of the trip. We got Irfan one of the craziest stories I've ever heard. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Irfan Petsi]

Thank you.

[Sean Kelly]

Could you please explain your story for people that don't know who you are and what you went through?

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, my name is Irfan. I'm 36 and born in Serbia, grew up in Germany. And yeah, the crazy on my story is that I was a radical Muslim and today I'm a Christian. And yeah, how it starts, I grew up like a normal, normal kid. And then with, with 14, 15, I was interested in religion and searching for truth. And because I'm born, I was a born Muslim, I start to read the Quran and everything. And then I met some heretical Muslims and they saw that I'm interested in religion. And then they explained me first the religion and.

Normal stuff like how to pray, how to fast and these things. And then later it starts with politics and a jihad. To fight holy war is a duty for every Muslim. And at that time, to be honest, I like it. And I don't have a bad intention to be an evil person or something, but I want to be a good Muslim. And that's why I was not thinking is it good or bad? I was only interested is that my duty as a Muslim? Did I have to do that as a Muslim? Then I will do it right? And if it means that I have to kill non believers or go to war, I will go to war. And that was my intention. And thank God I was arrested before that.

[Sean Kelly]

That means how did you get arrested? How did they find you?

[Irfan Petsi]

They find me because I do a lot of propaganda on, on the Internet and through my IP address. I don't know exactly how, but was.

[Sean Kelly]

This in Germany or.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, it was in Germany. They observed me for one year or something. The German, like FBI, they have me on their list. And my intention was to go to Afghanistan to fight. To fight in jihad. And I was with a group of 10, 15 people. And I do a lot of propaganda, radical propaganda, and they. And when they see that I want to go to war, they arrest me before.

[Sean Kelly]

Yeah.

[Irfan Petsi]

And thank God, because that was really good.

[Sean Kelly]

That might have saved your life.

[Irfan Petsi]

That saved my life because all the other guys from. 15 people.

13 are dead.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah. Through. Most of them. Through CIA drone attacks.

[Sean Kelly]

Holy crap.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah. And one. One or two comes back and they were, I don't know, eight, nine years in prison.

[Sean Kelly]

Jeez.

[Irfan Petsi]

And I can be really lucky. I mean, it was not easy. I was in. In a j. In jail, like an. As a. As a terrorist. As a member of a terrorist organization. I was 23, sometimes 24 hours alone in isolation.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

And it was really hard with 19 years. I was 19 at that time, in a high security prison in southern southern Germany. And I was there for one year.

[Sean Kelly]

Jeez.

[Irfan Petsi]

Alone in isolation, isolation, totally alone.

But when I look back, it was really good because, yeah, if not, if they would not arrest me, I would go with the other guys and then I will be dead and I will be killed or I would kill other people. And that's why.

I'm lucky and happy that they arrest me before.

[Sean Kelly]

Right. And then they arrested you and then they ended up recruiting you. Right?

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah. That was after jail. I was released after one year and they asked me, or before I was. When I was in jail, I change. I start to think critical of everything. Is that what God wants from me? To kill people, to go to war and everything? And because I was alone. And I start to think a lot and to read books and everything. And then something in my mind changed. And then I say, in jail, it was already in jail. After six months in isolation. I say, I don't want that anymore. When they release me, I will start a new life, start work.

I want to have a family, kids, wife, totally regularly, normal life. And then I was released after one year. And then they came in, The German intelligence came to me and they asked me, what are your plans, what you want to do? I say, I want a normal life.

You know, I'm not a danger anymore. I'm done with it. And they say, look, that's. That's good, that's good. But why you don't start to work for us? Because you know, a lot of dangerous guys. And you're very, very good connected in whole Europe.

[Sean Kelly]

Right.

[Irfan Petsi]

Because I'm originally from the Balkans and I know a lot of radical people there, radical networks in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Balkans. And they offer me to work for them. And I think about that and I did it on the end because I feel like responsible because I radicalized other people, other young Muslims. And I feel like that. Yeah, I feel kind of guilty. Feel guilty? Yeah. Guilty and responsible. And I saw that, like an opportunity to do something good, to do something good for Germany, for the people, for the security, because Germany give us all. We go to Germany when the balkan war started. 91. And then we flew to Germany as refugees. And I have a beautiful life. I had a beautiful life there. And Germany gave us everything.

[Sean Kelly]

All right, guys, Sean Kelly here, host of the Digital Social hour podcast, just filmed 33amazing episodes at Student Action Summit. Shout out to Code Health, you know, sponsor of these episodes. But also I took them before filming. Each day felt amazing. Just filmed 20 episodes straight and I'm not even tired, honestly. Much like this, where it's just based off, you know, the code, the codes that are in the saline solution. Code Health has been awesome. Feel the drop and go code yourself.

[Irfan Petsi]

And I was. That was one of the reason why I said, I'm so unthankful the country that give us everything. And I, on the end, I was radicalized and want to harm the country and harm the people. And then I see that as an opportunity to give something back, to do something good. And then I agreed. And they sent me to Berlin because Berlin was the hotspot of jihadis, of radical Islamists. And then I go back instead of.

To step out to say, look, I'm done. I go back.

And as something like an undercover agent. And then I was among them collecting information. And we did a lot of good, important things. For example, I was able to prevent one terrorist attack.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah.

[Sean Kelly]

Then where was that attack up?

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, it was a young Turkish guy, he's dead. He was in prison after that and then goes to Syria, fight in jihad. And then he died in fighting Assad regime. And he was in contact with a high ranking terrorist in Afghanistan. And he recruited him and say, look, we want to do a terrorist attack in Berlin. Yeah. And he was thinking that I will help him. And I was the wrong guy. He trusted and he trusted me and say, look, I get order from this guy in Afghanistan. And he say, you can come to Afghanistan, but you will be a normal soldier if you do if you want to do a good thing, an important thing, then don't come to Afghanistan. You can kill lot more unbelievers in Berlin if you do a terrorist attack then here.

[Sean Kelly]

Right.

[Irfan Petsi]

And yeah, and then.

I was working with my intelligence. I had like an intelligence officer and I told him everything. And then we make a plan when we. How and when we will arrest him. Because that's the difficult thing that he don't realize that the information comes from me. Right. And that's really complicated and difficult to use this information, but in the same time to protect me as an informant.

[Sean Kelly]

Right.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah. And the other things was we stopped a lot of people. For example, I saw this guy. He's preparing, he want to go to Afghanistan. He's collecting money, he's shaving his beard.

Drinking alcohol, going to clubs so that the police and intelligence think that he's not radical anymore. And.

I identify such people and say, look, this guy, I'm pretty sure he want to go. And then we make a plan to take his passport, to arrest him because of other things, so that he's not able to go and to kill American soldiers. Because, you know, Americans, they were the enemy, number one. Right. I mean, yeah, every unbeliever is an enemy, but they were there. They were very motivated to. To especially to kill American soldiers and generally NATO soldiers.

[Sean Kelly]

Yeah.

[Irfan Petsi]

And that was the other thing. A lot of what we do, and I think we prevent around 20, 25 people, radical Islamists to go to war and to kill people.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

And in this time, I saw how important that I'm doing.

[Sean Kelly]

Well done. So. So what years were you part of Al Qaeda? Five years, you said?

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, I was radicalized with 16 and then I was like till 19. This three, four years. I was part of, of. Of radical Islamist networks, Al Qaeda and others. And then I was arrested and then I started to work for intelligence.

[Sean Kelly]

How long have. Are you still with the intelligence now or did you.

[Irfan Petsi]

No, no, I'm not with anymore. I worked for them around two years.

[Sean Kelly]

Okay.

[Irfan Petsi]

And yeah, on the end I had. I have a burnout because it was stressful. 24 hours stressful. It was because I was all the time in danger. I have to be careful what I'm saying. And I know if they know who I am, what I, what I do, if, if they, if this will be revealed, then I'm done. You're dead. They will kill me.

[Sean Kelly]

Did that almost happen to.

[Irfan Petsi]

There was two, three situation. It was very, very close.

[Sean Kelly]

Wow.

[Irfan Petsi]

For example, I can give you one story.

They say Tunisian guy They say he's very interested and we need information. We need some pictures, what he has, what we think that he has on his laptop. You need to find a way to get this pictures to get this data from his laptop. And I was thinking, how I can do that. He will not give me his laptop and say, here's my laptop. And then I was visiting him, and then I say, look, I need some stuff from the Internet. I have my stick with me. Can I use only quick two minutes. Can I use your laptop? I need something. And he said, yeah, sure you can. And then he was sitting in front of me like you and I had his laptop. And I was sitting with him, smiling, talking, and I take all the data what I can from his laptop. And he was in front of me and I say, and then, I mean, I was not sure, is that enough? But I take so, so much I can. And then I give him the laptop back. And I was going home and put the stick on my laptop looking. What is that? Okay, I think I have the pictures. And then on the same day, on the evening my laptop was open. You saw all the pictures. And then after two, three hours, somebody's knocking on my door. And I was thinking it's the neighbor or somebody. And then I opened the door and then he stands in front of me with four other guys.

[Sean Kelly]

No way.

[Irfan Petsi]

And most of them had weapons, like knives or something with them. And I was totally surprised, surprised because I was thinking it's a neighbor or somebody. And then they're coming in and I forget that my laptop is open with all the information with his, with the pictures and everything. And then they coming, they coming in my living room. And I have a small apartment at that time. And then I saw the desk with my laptop open. And then I'm going there, close closely, quick close the laptop. And it was coincidence that they came and closing my laptop and I was dying in this moment. I was really dying. You have to be a very, very.

[Sean Kelly]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

[Irfan Petsi]

Thank you. A good actor.

[Sean Kelly]

Yeah. Your heart was probably racing.

[Irfan Petsi]

My heart was racing. I mean, you didn't saw that, but I think they did. I didn't saw. They didn't recognize that. But I was dying. I was dying. Because if they saw that, everything would be clear. Why should I take private pictures and data from his laptop?

[Sean Kelly]

Yeah, you can't talk your way.

[Irfan Petsi]

It would be 100% sure. And there was, I mean, I can't defend myself but there were four or five guys with knives and everything they would. They would kill me.

[Sean Kelly]

Damn, that's crazy man. They need to make a movie from your life.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, I. I have an offer to movie and I think that would be a good movie. Yeah but you know in this times it's very important. It's very difficult to make such movie because.

[Sean Kelly]

Expensive.

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah, it's expensive and today I'm more a conservative right wing guy. Germany is very leftist.

[Sean Kelly]

How are they?

[Irfan Petsi]

Yeah. And this cultural.

[Sean Kelly]

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[Irfan Petsi]

In this area you only have or 90% are leftists and they don't like me. But I hope someday maybe American will see that and can make a Hollywood movie or something. I think it will be a great movie.

[Sean Kelly]

It will be. Where can people follow you and support you, man?

[Irfan Petsi]

I have a YouTube channel. My name Irfan Petsi I have a YouTube channel. 90% of my stuff is in German but you have this, you can activate this English subtitles and I have some live streams with Apple State profit I won in English and in future I will do more. I think I will do more, more more content at English I have to exercise a little bit so that my English is a little bit better and so that I can do live streams with English. But yeah, that's my channel.

[Sean Kelly]

Well, thanks for your time man.

[Irfan Petsi]

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Sean Kelly]

Can't wait to do another interview with you. Thanks for coming. Check them out guys.

[Irfan Petsi]

Sam.