Jake Rattlesnake;. Why Free Speech Feels Impossible Outside the U.S. | DSH #1818

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour — Jake Rattlesnake: Why Free Speech Feels Impossible Outside the U.S. | DSH #1818

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jake ("Jake Rattlesnake") of Rattlesnake TV
Date: February 8, 2026
Duration: ~45 minutes (excluding intros, ads, outros)

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, Sean Kelly sits down with Jake Rattlesnake—a provocative Australian commentator and host of Rattlesnake TV—for a candid and controversial conversation. The discussion spans Jake’s move from Australia to the U.S., the limitations on free speech outside America, immigration crises in the West, Islam’s impact on European societies, gender roles and dating dynamics, his personal journey from atheism to Christianity, and the philosophical debate over free will versus destiny.

The tone is unfiltered, often combative, and deeply reflective, particularly about cultural issues and personal beliefs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jake’s Move from Australia to the U.S.

• Motivation for Relocating:
  • Jake describes challenges doing a U.S.-focused online show from Australia (e.g., time zones, scheduling guests, lack of “base” community, and restrictive culture).
  • “If you're a basketball player, you want to go to America and play in the NBA; you don't want to stay in the NBL.” (04:12)
• Interest in Texas: Planning a move to Dallas, Texas for a more vibrant conservative and Christian community.

2. Feminism, Dating, and Cultural Differences

• Claims Australian society is extremely “feminized,” making it hard for him to connect with women who align with his values.
  • “The feminism, it's in the water that you drink, in the air that you breathe... Australia is way worse [than the U.S.].” (04:45)
• Believes U.S. has more robust Christian and conservative communities, fostering openness for his worldview.

3. Free Speech and Censorship in Australia and Beyond

• Jake asserts that holding anti-abortion or conservative views in Australia brings extreme social repercussions and risk of being “destroyed” for speaking out (06:15–06:30).
• He distances himself from certain anti-immigration protests, claiming some are “astroturfed” and funded by nefarious entities (06:31–07:13).

4. Immigration Issues in the West

• Europe as ‘Ground Zero’ for Social Tension:
  • Describes Ireland, Austria, and especially Vienna as overrun by “military-aged men” from non-Western societies (07:30–09:48).
  • Recalls personal experiences of seeing desecrated churches and “no accountability.”
• Cites Violent Incidents:
  • “This is just one example, there was a huge riot in Ireland because... a 10 year old girl was abducted and raped in a migrant facility.” (08:11)
• Comparison to Latin America:
  • Jake and Sean discuss how travel vloggers require more security in modern Europe than in Latin America due to crime and social tension (10:11–10:33).

5. Islam and the Left—An Ideological Analysis

• Islamification of Europe:
  • Argues Muslim immigration is an existential threat to Western culture and values, especially in Europe.
  • “The spread of Islam is hugely, hugely concerning... the left-wing governments... are the ones who enable them all to come over.” (13:00–13:57)
• Left-Wing Politics as a Vector:
  • Left-liberal parties in European countries inadvertently facilitate the rise of illiberal religious conservatism (13:20–15:03).
• Mehdi Hasan Controversy:
  • Repeats claims, “Mehdi Hasan is on tape... saying he believes that anybody who is not a Muslim is like cattle... These people are basically animals to him.” (15:03–15:54)
• Warning for America:
  • “Americans sleep on the Muslim threat a little bit. In Europe, it's so in your face.” (16:01)

6. Historical Perspective: Christianity, Islam, and Conflict

• Draws connections between historical European conflicts with Muslim empires (the Crusades, Ottoman conquest, etc.) and modern demographic changes (16:13–17:54).
• “The Ottoman Empire could only have dreamed of having this many Muslim military-age men in Europe. It would be their wet dream to see what has happened today.” (17:16)

7. Debate Culture and Intellectual Rigor

• Jake advocates for debate as the best way to test and refine beliefs:
  • “If your belief can stand the test of a ruthless attack from many angles, then you might be onto something.” (27:45–28:42)
• He credits his conversion to Christianity largely to debating and logically challenging his own positions.

8. Personal Journey: From Atheism to Christianity

• Grew up Catholic but became a “Reddit atheist.”
• COVID-19 lockdowns and perceived 'evil' in society led him to reconsider a purely materialist worldview:
  • “If evil does exist, then is there an opposite?... obviously that would be God for a religious person.” (20:35–21:49)
• Adopts Christianity for logical, rather than emotional, reasons.
• Finds Christianity uniquely grounded in “love as a governing factor of our life” (22:39–24:14).

9. Philosophy: Good, Evil, and the Nature of Belief

• Debates the “God of the gaps” concept as a rational explanation for phenomena materialism can’t explain (27:11–27:45).
• The hosts reflect that beliefs are rarely original and are instead “like making a sandwich” from ingredients provided by others (28:58).

10. Gender Dynamics, Attraction, and Social Hierarchies

• Jake discusses evolutionary psychology, female attraction to the “Beauty and the Beast” archetype, and “sneaky fucker strategies” in humans and nature (30:46–35:52).
• Argues that men need to be strong, competent, and establish boundaries to be respected.
  • “Don't listen to any of that garbage societal programming... about becoming more feminized because a lot of guys get sucked into that trap.” (36:00)

11. Destiny vs. Free Will, Morality, and the Structure of Reality

• Engages in a philosophical discussion on whether humans have free will or are predetermined (41:12–44:21).
• Jake sides with free will, refuting Calvinist determinism with the argument that time is not linear for God:
  • “God is outside of time. He's outside of space, he's outside of material.” (43:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Feminism and Dating:

  “The feminism, it's in the water that you drink, in the air that you breathe. And I thought, that's so true.” – Jake (04:45)

• On Immigration in Europe:

  “Ireland is one of the worst in the entire European continent…hundreds and thousands of migrants just being shipped in regularly by all of these NGOs.” – Jake (07:44)

• On Islam and the West:

  “The spread of Islam is hugely, hugely concerning… anybody who knows anything about Islam knows that they're not exactly liberals… but the liberals are the ones who enable them all to come over.” – Jake (13:03)

• Historical Reflection:

  “Right now…the Ottoman Empire could only have dreamed of having this many Muslim military-age Muslim men in Europe.” – Jake (17:16)

• Testing Beliefs:

  “If your belief can stand the test of a ruthless attack from many angles, then you might be onto something.” – Jake (28:42)

• Nature of Thought:

  “It's kind of like making a sandwich. All the ingredients are there…But I didn't actually make any of the ingredients.” – Jake (28:58)

• God and Love:

  “Logically it has to be a loving God, because if it was a capricious God, well, then everything would be run on…hate and fear…but it doesn't seem to me as though that's the way that the world runs. It seems to me…the world runs on love.” – Jake (22:39)

• On Gender and Dating:

  “Women respect men who have boundaries. Women who respect men who stand for something, who are ambitious and also who can tell them no.” – Jake (36:48)

• Final Thought:

  “Check out Rattlesnake TV…We do a lot of live streams when I'm not traveling, the Extravaganza with myself and Andrew Wilson…It's been great to meet you, man. I really, really enjoy what you're doing here.” – Jake (44:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jake on Immigration & Islam in Europe: 07:19–13:57
• Mehdi Hasan Critique: 15:03–15:54
• Comparison of U.S. (NBA) vs. Australia (NBL): 04:11
• Personal Journey to Christianity: 20:35–24:14
• Debate as Self-Discovery Tool: 27:11–28:42
• Evolutionary Psychology & “Beauty and the Beast” Archetype: 30:46–35:52
• Destiny vs Free Will: 41:12–44:21
• Outro/Promotion: 44:49–45:09

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Tone & Style

The episode is direct, polemical, occasionally conspiratorial, and highly philosophical. Both Sean and Jake keep the conversation rapid, covering a wide range of controversial social, political, and metaphysical ideas, blending personal anecdote with grand historical and cultural critique.

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This summary offers a comprehensive, organized guide to the episode's core discussions, valuable for anyone who hasn't listened but wants to understand the breadth and tenor of the conversation.

Transcript

[A]

Mehdi Hasan is on tape years ago saying he believes that anybody who is not a Muslim is like cattle. Yeah. He's on tape saying this. And this is no joke. These people are basically animals to him. You don't have to treat animals with any respect. You don't have to tell animals the truth. All you have to do is just treat them with whatever you need to do to have your ends met. So he goes to the UK and he is, you know, this huge journalist in the uk, you know, lambasting the right wing and very pro immigration and he drives forward that agenda. And now where does he live? Now he lives in America and he's doing the same thing and he' at the left wing protest saying how great immigration is and how Trump's a fascist. This guy is a Muslim subverter. He is a porn for Islamic immigration into the West.

[B]

All right, guys, we got Jake of Rattlesnake TV here all the way from Australia, man. Literally just flew in now. You must be exhausted.

[A]

Yeah, I've just done like a 24 hour flight, but we'll see how we go. I just have one of Ric Flair's energy drinks.

[B]

Yeah, let's go.

[A]

We should be.

[B]

I'm taking that flight next week, so I'm excited, man.

[A]

I'm going to give you a whole itinerary list. You said you don't have many places?

[B]

Just the zoo, Steve Irwin Zoo. That's it.

[A]

Yeah. Get that out of the way. The zoo, and then I'll give you the real stuff.

[B]

I need good food. I need good stuff.

[A]

You want to go to the mountain towns as well? You want to go see some of the beautiful mountains, the beach towns? Yeah, I got you, bro.

[B]

But you're ready to leave, huh? You're ready to move out here?

[A]

I think so, man. I think so. I've been doing it over the last few months from Oz, and it's me and Andrew have our extravaganza show, which is four times a week, right. And it's at 7am for me, so normally I like to have a good morning routine and everything. So that can be a bit difficult. But then obviously just lining up times with guests and everything to do virtual is really hard. And I want to create a studio like this.

[B]

Yeah, dude, you should. That would be awesome. What cities are you looking at if you potentially move out here?

[A]

Probably go to Dallas.

[B]

Dallas? Yeah. Texas is solid. How did you and Andrew Wilson get close and how did you start the show and build that relationship?

[A]

So I actually saw him. I don't know if you've ever seen the debate that he did with Matt Dillahunty back in the day.

[B]

Older one. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was the. This sort of real. That was his sort of launchpad, that debate. He was doing heaps of stuff before then, but I'd never seen his work. But then I see this debate with Matt Dillahunty where he gets out there and he just rips this guy's worldview apart in the opening statement. And I mean this was just brutal. And by the end of it you can see Matt Dillahunty getting really scared and nervous and looking at the moderator and texting the moderator and basically just looking for a way out. And so it gets to Matt Dillahunty and he basically says, well, he was mean to me and he was attacking me personally. Which he wasn't really. He was attacking his arguments and a part of that is you. And then he just bailed out and he said, I'm not going to do this debate. And I was just like, wow. So I made a video on it and I said, you know, I can understand some people might not think that the way that he communicates is overly tasteful. I don't really care about that. Tell me in the comments why you think he's wrong. No one could tell me. Then I reached out to Andrew and I was like, do you want to come on the channel? So then it wasn't like a combative interview, but I was, I was sort of prodding him about his worldview because I was definitely less. I was, I was more moderate at that stage. And then he radicalized me.

[B]

I was you over?

[A]

Yeah, he did. I was more moderate, moderate at that stage. And then when I spoke to him, it just made more logical sense to me. And a lot of the Christians that I'd sort of interacted with, I liked their message. Fundamentally we have a lot in common, but I found a lot of them very intimate, ineffectual if I'm honest. And a lot of them were very like doing a lot of tone policing and a lot of self glazing and it just seemed like very performative. It didn't really seem very authentic. But then with guys like Andrew and Jim Bob and Jay Dyer, we can have a beer, you know, together we can have a good time, but we can, we also have a very similar worldview and it's not so like taking, taking yourself so seriously. And I think people just relate to that a lot more.

[B]

That makes a lot of sense. You, you had a pretty established Channel before you interviewed him?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think I was already up at like, maybe 600,000.

[B]

Wow, that's impressive for Australia. That must be massive, right?

[A]

Yeah, definitely be one of the bigger ones. I mean, you've got myself, you've got Isaac Butterfield, if you know him. He's a. He's a comedian who sort of commentates on social. Social things. You've got a guy called Friendly Geordies who has a big political page, but then otherwise there's not really much out there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I think the US is definitely the next step for you, man.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's like, I like to compare it to playing NBA versus in the nbl. Like, if you're a basketball player, you want to go to America and play in the NBA, you don't want to stay in the nbl. So, I mean, I already sort of, sort of play in the NBA myself, but I just need to actually move over here. But then it's the whole visa situation, which is really difficult.

[B]

Yeah. You got to find a wife, man.

[A]

That's it, man. If anyone knows anyone, if anyone knows a good Christian girl under 25, send it my way.

[B]

What's dating been like? Have you attempted international relationships or do you date, for the most part, girls that live in Australia?

[A]

I can't date Australian girls.

[B]

Oh, you can't?

[A]

Yeah, because. And there would be some good ones out there, but it's just, you know, one of the things that Andrew told me, which was quite funny in our first interview, was he was like, man, the feminism, it's in the water that you drink, in the air that you breathe. And I thought, that's so true.

[B]

It's that bad in Australia.

[A]

It's that bad, man. I thought the US was the us Australia is way worse. You serious? Yeah, Australia is way worse. The thing is, the US has a big Christian base still. Like, there's a lot of Christians in the us. You're still a very Christian country. You can go to a lot of places and they've got these big conservative communities and lots of Christians and people sort of think the same way as you do. Like, when I come over here, I. I'm like, it's like a breath. Breath of fresh air to me to be like, oh, yes, I get to go hang out with my base friends.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But in Australia, if you tell somebody that you're anti abortion, like, I am, they'll look at you like you've just said that you want to genocide women or something.

[B]

Holy crap. Has it been like that your Whole life or is that a newer movement?

[A]

Well, I mean, I've. I, like I said, I was more moderate in my early 20s and everything. But then I think as you go down the logic tree and as you sort of go down and take this worldview to its logical extent, there's only, you know, you can only hold off on these arguments for so long and they're very controversial and everything. But if you're looking for the truth, then that's an argument for me that there's just. There's no justification for being pro abortion from a secular worldview or a Christian worldview. But anyways, arguments like this and having a worldview like this, people think you're some sort of a schnazi or something like that.

[B]

So do you feel like you can fully speak out over there or do you feel like there's repercussions when you talk about certain topics?

[A]

Oh, there's repercussions, yeah.

[B]

Are they even after people over there?

[A]

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, for sure. Crap.

[B]

Because I know Canada does that, but I never heard Australia doing that.

[A]

Yeah, man, they'll destroy your life over there.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Yeah, it's bad.

[B]

So have you been like Shadow Band or Demon?

[A]

Well, the thing is, I'm in this weird space where I commentate a lot on American politics. I don't get that involved in Australian politics. I don't really get involved with these marches and everything. There's a lot of big protests that have been happening in Australia in terms of anti immigration marches, and I'm all for it and everything. However, I do know that there is. It can be a little bit astroturfed. There is a few nefarious bits of funding going on behind the scenes and all that sort of stuff.

[B]

So there always is, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm sort of keeping it at arm's length, if you will. But I'm in this weird space where I'm not really, like, I'm big enough to be to. For them to care about, but not big enough in the Australian scene for them to really go after me like that.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's very fascinating. It seems like a lot of countries are having an immigration issue right now.

[A]

Man, it's crazy. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I thought it was just us and then I read other countries dealing with it on the news and I'm like, this is everywhere.

[A]

Europe is, is absolutely horrible.

[B]

Yeah. You just went there, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was that like, man?

[A]

If you're, what's your, what's your cultural background?

[B]

I'm Half Irish, half Chinese, half Irish. Yeah, I've been to Ireland, been a UK Actually. No, I haven't been in the uk. I flew in there. I heard it's bad out there though.

[A]

Ireland's one of the worst.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, Ireland is, yeah. Wow.

[A]

Yeah, Ireland, they've got hundreds and thousands of migrants just being shipped in regularly by all of these NGOs and everything. So they're accepting Ireland is one of the worst in the entire. In the entire European continent. Because have you seen recently, they've had massive protests at. And I'm not sure how much I can say on this in terms of words and everything. If you guys have to beep things.

[B]

Out, we might beat the cursing, but okay.

[A]

Well, there was recently, this is just one example, there was a huge riot in Ireland because there was a little girl who was in the like a government care in one of these government agencies and she was abducted and raped at a migrant facility. So they have all these facilities where they keep the migrants, whether they're nice hotels or whatever else. And these migrants all just stay there and they're allowed to go wander around throughout the day, all on taxpayer dollars. A 10 year old girl was brought into one of these facilities, abducted, raped in the facility. And then the Irish people just started losing their minds about it, I mean, as you would. And started riding, started just doing all kinds of things. But this seems like a monthly occurrence now.

[B]

That's terrible.

[A]

I just went to Austria and went to Vienna. You know, Vienna is like the height of European culture. When you think, when you think about, you know, classical music and when you think about, you know, sophistication and high society, you think Vienna, Mozart, Beethoven, Strauss, you know, it was just crazy because I went out of the old town into just a normal suburb and the churches that I went to, this one church called the Church of St. Anthony, there's a video of me doing it and it's just completely and utterly desecrated the whole way around with graffiti. Yeah, that is awful, man. It was terrible. And this is a place, it's called. I can't remember what, I can't remember what the suburbs called, but it's completely Islamified. You barely see any Austrian people there whatsoever. And these Muslims are just all around the church, using it as basically a recreational area.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Yeah. And then I posted that video. It got millions of views on tik, on Twitter and on Instagram. And I heard all these Muslims coping about it, making videos, saying I'm some sort of like a Zionist of shill. And it's like, man, like, there's no accountability.

[B]

That's terrible, man. It's a shame because when I was in high school and college here, I always looked forward to doing like a Europe tour when I was older and could afford it. And now it seems like it's kind of dangerous.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

If I want to hit like a bunch of countries in Europe, you got to move really smart.

[A]

Yeah, man. Yeah. So there's a YouTuber called Kurt Kaz. I'm sure you know Kurt Kaz and he does, you know, Latin America. He's been to all different places. He goes to Nicaragua and Guatemala and Colombia and Venezuela and doesn't have any security. But then when he went to Europe, when he went to Brussels, when he went to Paris and these places, he has to get security.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it makes sense to me because I've been around Latin America as well. I've been around, like, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, all these places, and you can move pretty good. But then when you get to Europe and when you go to the Islamified parts of London and the Islamified parts of Vienna as well, you don't get families coming over there. You get military aged men coming over. So these are the. You can imagine who's coming over on the boats for economic opportunities. Not children. It's not women, it's men. Because oftentimes these guys come from Arabic societies which have high, high rates of polygamy, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they have a big underclass of men who have no access to women. So like Donald Trump once said, they're not sending their best, they're not sending their best. But yeah. So you get a lot of these guys, military age men who are coming over to these countries and just reaping all of the social benefits, social welfare. And they see these white girls with their legs out and they're like. Essentially they think of those girls as whores. Right. Because in their country and where they're from, that's. That's just not allowed. You know, they have burkas and everything. So they come to a European country and they see a Swedish girl who's.

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[A]

I mean, we could go deeper into that as well if you wanted to, but. But in Islamic culture, that's essentially the spoils of war.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So do you see the spread of Islam as a major threat to the West?

[A]

Major threat, Major threat. In America, not so much. But I do think they have to be very careful. When you look at places like Dearborn, Michigan and when you look at places like, is it Minnesota where the, the Somalian guy is running for office? And Dearborn, Michigan is New York City too, right?

[B]

With Mamdani.

[A]

Yep. So what happened in the UK was that the left wing, the conservatives in the UK have been pretty bad with this too. But the left wing governments are terrible for this. Guys like Tony Blair, the Labour Party, the Labor governments, they're very pro immigration, they're very pro eu. So the way that European Union works is that they've got a European Parliament and you can elect representatives from your country to go to Brussels, which is where the European Union meetings are. And, and then they make decisions on behalf of Europe from Brussels. So you get a few representatives, but then you have to compete with all of the other representatives. So you basically lose your sovereignty when you're a part of the European Union. So then the European Union will try and tell England or will try and tell Poland or will try and tell these other countries. Well, you have to take X amount of Muslims or you have to pay this amount of money. And the Hungarians, they said, well, we'll just pay the money. But they try to do the same thing with England as well. And so this is one of the reasons why England did Brexit or they tried to leave the European Union even though it's been reasonably ineffectual. But I mean, the spread of. Back to your question though. The spread of Islam is hugely, hugely concerning because what happens is they will go in and they will use the left wing governments to get them all in. But I mean, anybody who knows anything about Islam knows that they're not exactly liberals. You know, they're not exactly liberals the way that they think, but the liberals are the ones who enable them all to come over. And then you've got guys like Mehdi Hasan. I know you know Mehdi Hasan. Mehdi Hasan is on tape years ago saying he believes that anybody who is not a Muslim is like cattle.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, he's on tape saying this. And this is no joke. These people are basically animals to him. You don't have to treat animals with any respect. You don't have to tell animals the truth. All you have to do is just treat them with whatever you need to do to have your ends met. So he goes to the UK and he is this huge journalist in the uk, lambasting the right wing and he's very pro immigration and he drives forward that agenda. And now it is. He lived, now he lives in America and he's doing the same thing. And he's at the left wing protest saying how great immigration is and how Trump's a fascist. This guy is a Muslim subverter. He is a, a, he is a pawn for the Islamic immigration, for Islamic immigration into the West. And he works for Al Jazeera, who is like a Qatari media company. I mean, it goes deep, man. Yeah.

[B]

I have seen Qatar funding certain people, though, right? Yeah, yeah. It is a little concerning if. Especially if these people are living in America.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I think Americans sleep on the Muslim threat a little bit. In Europe, it's so in your face. Yeah. But they do have to be careful in America too. I mean.

[B]

Well, if they take over Europe, I mean, they're coming after us next, let's be honest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

North America will be the next target.

[A]

Yeah. I think that we're going to see a big civil strife in our lifetime. I think that we're going to see a huge civil strife because if you look back at the history of Europe, it's a series of conquests and then reconquests between Christians and Muslims. So you had the Ottomans who invaded. You have Islamic caliphates who came in and invaded Europe and, and they'd taken over parts of Northern Africa, like Algeria and Morocco and these places and Spain and Portugal. And then after years and years and years of Islamic aggression, that's when the Crusades started. That's when they decided that they had to do something about it and push these Muslims back. Right. And then you look into the you know, the Battle of Vienna, for example, that's another one you look into, like, Battle of Budapest. I was just there and I was. And I was, you know, looking at all of the history of how the Ottomans came and conquered Budapest and they occupied Budapest for a long time. And then eventually the Holy League had to get together, which is the Polish and the Hungarian Empire, and even the Greeks and Italians, they got together and they were like, listen, we have to do this for Christendom, you know, put our differences aside. We have to repel this Islamic invasion for Christendom. So there's a lot of historical context there. And right now we're at the stage where the Ottoman Empire could only have dreamed of having this many Muslim military age Muslim men in Europe. It would be their wet dream to see what has happened today.

[B]

There's what, 2 billion of them now?

[A]

Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't. Two billion, I think, in total. But I mean, just the amount of men in Europe, living in Europe, that's. That those are assets.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If you think about it, because the way that Muslims view the world is you have Muslim areas and then you have combat zones. Right. So you have Muslim places that are run by Muslims, these different places in the Middle east, and then you have combat zones. And, you know, don't really say this as much, but that's just the way it is with them. Wow. And, you know, when they go to a different place, this is not like you or I being an expat to a different country and being like, oh, yeah, we're going to go and move to, um, let's say we're going to go to move to Germany. We're probably going to, you know, eat the, the German food and we'll probably, you know, drink the German wine and, you know, we'll be expats. They don't view it that way. Yeah, they view it as like a slow conquest. Because ultimately, fundamentally what they believe is that Allah is the truth and they believe that Muhammad was the last prophet and then this is the last hope for the world. So if they go and they spread Islam around the world, they are doing the work of Allah.

[B]

That is so crazy to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they really think that way when they move somewhere new?

[A]

Of course they do. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they're playing the long game, huh?

[A]

Oh, yeah, big time.

[B]

That is really interesting. Have you, I know you're into debates. Have you debated any Islam yet?

[A]

No, I haven't debated any Muslims. I mean, I wouldn't. I don't think I'd be well enough versed on their theology to really debate them and get into the nuances. But in terms of what's better for society, Christianity or Islam? Yeah, I would love to debate that. That would be.

[B]

I'll try to set that up for you.

[A]

Yeah, for sure, man.

[B]

Next time you're here. I've been doing a lot of religious debates. It's very interesting to me. Yeah, you've been Christian your whole life.

[A]

I haven't. I was only. Well, I mean, I was born and baptized a Catholic and I went to the Catholic school, but I'm not sure about like your background, but a lot of people have a similar story where they, you know, they grow up and they do the Our Fathers and all these sorts of things and it's just kind of meaningless to you. Yeah, but then you get older and then Covid is what really red pilled me about this stuff because I was a big atheist before that. In my early 20s, I was one of those Reddit atheists, like, oh, you believe in a sky daddy and stuff? And I worked at the Salvation army, so I worked at a Christian organization for a few years. And I would always make fun of them and always be like, you know, you believe this guy walked on water? You believe he came back from the dead. And none of them had an answer for me, so I thought that I was too smart. And then the COVID stuff happened and I started to perceive what I could only describe as evil going on. When I started to look into the structures of it and what was really happening, and especially the herd mentality. And you sort of started to realize, I know it's kind of a bit corny at this stage, but you sort of started to realize how totalitarian regimes can come to power because everybody just follows and people are so malleable, they're like sheep on a mass scale. It's like that mass formation psychosis. So I started to see all of that and I'm starting to think, wow, that's evil. But do I believe in evil? What is evil? You know, if I'm an atheist and if I'm a materialist and if I just believe that everything is just like material and if I all I am is just a complex series of atoms and neutrons and proteins, and if I lift my arm like this, it's only because of the complex process. It's not because I have a governing faculty, it's just the process. So if I really believe that and what is evil, I can't put my finger on evil, I can't put it under a microscope. So I'm talking about something that's purely metaphysical right now. So if evil does exist, then is there an opposite? And if there is an opposite, then what is that? And obviously the typically that would be God for a religious person. And a few people I really knew and respected started to come into my life and sort of talk to me about Christianity, which was new. A guy that I really respected, his name Steven Shivera, he's a historian. I asked him, what do you think is the most important thing for a young man to try and do, to live like a meaningful life? And he said, just look into the life of Jesus Christ and follow it. And I was a bit taken aback because I was like, you're like a smart guy and you believe in, believe in that stuff. And then so I started to go.

[B]

Down the path and what was it like? You read the Bible, you started going to church again?

[A]

No, I've come to it purely through logic.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, so that's the really interesting part about it. I think that there are a lot of very sophisticated logical arguments for God first of all, and also for Christianity as well. So like I said before, I think materialism is absurd on its face because materialism, it posits that we are just material, you know, that we are literally just material. And there are a lot of things that you just can't explain from materialism. You can't explain consciousness from materialism. Right. You can't explain love from materialism or any of these things. You'd have to say, well, that's just like a chemical reaction. That's unsatisfactory for me consciousness, as much as atheists will try. You can't explain consciousness through materialism.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

You can't explain out of body experiences. So there are a lot of things that I find very convincing. And also Christianity is based on this. And I go through my own little rabbit hole sometimes. I probably need to run these by an actual theologian. But also Christianity is based upon the notion that love is like a, is the governing factor of, of our life. Right. Everything is sort of run on this notion of love in a sense, okay, Jesus loves you. And it's like we have to love each other as, as we want to be treated, treat each other as we want to be treated, Love your neighbor, love your enemy, etc, and when you really think about that, it's like if there is a God, say we can just sort of grant the presupposition that there is a God. You Then have to ask yourself, well, is that God a loving God, or is that God a vengeful, malicious, capricious God? Well, I think that logically it has to be a loving God, because if it was a capricious God, well, then everything would be run on the same sort of principles on hate and on fear and all these things. But it doesn't seem to me as though that's the way that the world runs. It seems to me as the world runs on love. Like, we have to love our children for them to be fruitful and multiply. We have to love our neighbor. We have to, you know, and if we do love our enemy, that's the ultimate way in which the world, like you imagine if everybody really, truly tried to show love for their enemy or forgives their enemy, can you imagine how much that would change things?

[B]

Like, I almost can't even picture that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Honestly.

[A]

Yeah. Just like that's the hardest thing you can possibly do if you've ever really fucking hated. Hated someone. Yeah.

[B]

That's why when I saw Erica Kirk Forgive the Murderer, I was tear. I was brought tear to my eyes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't see that often where people can do that.

[A]

Yeah. And like, you know, if. I'm sure everyone has had things that have happened to them that are so up in their life and they think they can't be a God because that's just too, like, why would God allow that to happen to me? Why would God allow that to happen to my brother, my mom, whatever. It's a strong argument, man. Like, we have to really wrestle with those, with those arguments. But is the answer malice? Is the answer revenge? Because where does that get us? If everything is based on a cycle of malice and revenge, where will that get us? Yeah, have a look at the 20th century and have a look at what the communists did and you'll see where that gets you. We'll see where that gets you.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Resentment and malice gets you.

[B]

Yeah. Do you believe in some sort of form of karma? I know that's not really a Christian thing, but, like, do you believe, like, when you do good, you'll get good back?

[A]

I've always found this an interesting idea, karma, because I think that karma is sort of logically makes sense to me. I don't think it has to be some sort of like a Hindu principle. I think that if you're a good person, if you treat people well, then that will come back to you. I mean, I've never. I've never met anybody who's honest, hard working Diligent, caring, respectful, who doesn't have a pretty good life unless they're incredibly unlucky, you know, but even generally, those people tend to handle hard times.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Pretty well as well. But I. But whenever I see people who are, you know, dishonest and who are just, you know, trying to hurt other people and trying to step on as many heads as possible, those people don't maintain good relationships. Those people don't have a very good spiritual life. Those people generally tend to go from place to place to place and can't, can't really stick with a friendship group or, or something like that. So the whole idea of karma to me has always made sense in like a, in like a logical way rather than a spiritual principle, if that makes sense.

[B]

Same here. Yeah. Even though I don't tie myself to Hinduism, I feel like karma just makes sense to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've noticed it in my own life and with other people too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It could be my reticular activating system just picking up on it though. You never know because we're so biased as humans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're constantly looking for validation on our beliefs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So to be objective is a really tough thing these days.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

You know what I mean? So many people are just going to focus on what they already believe in.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think so, man. You see that a lot these days.

[B]

That's why I like debates though, because debates, you see both sides. If you come in as a viewer with an open mind, you can really learn a lot.

[A]

I feel like, man, I could not agree more. You asked me before how I got to Christianity and that was probably the main way debate. I've never had any sort of a real spiritual. I've had some things with prayer that have been very. That have sort of like, you know, blown my hair back a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But logic has been the thing that's really gotten me to this and even I think that the God of the gaps is a really good argument. So the God of the God of the gaps argument. People make fun of this a lot, but there are so many things that we can't explain. Like we were talking about before, like consciousness and, and there's so many things that we just cannot explain. But if you put God, if you accept that there is a God that exists, then so many things, so many more things just like make make sense. So anyways, there's that. But what was the question gap of the gods?

[B]

Oh, it was debate, format, debating.

[A]

So I'm very like, you know, logic brained. Like this. So I started to look into it and just really try and have an objective look into it. And like, what do I. What do I believe? And then just ruthlessly attack what you believe in. That's the best way to do it. Because if your belief can stand the test of a ruthless attack from many angles, then you might be onto something. It's probably going to be bullshit at the end of the day. You might be onto something. Right. If you can do that to yourself, though, that's a really good skill to have. Great skill. So if you can have a thought and be like, I believe X. All right. And then if you can. And I do this to myself all the time. I'm in a habit now, after spending enough time with Andrew, where I'll just be in the shower and I'll just. I'll a thought and I'll be like, what do I think about this idea? And then I'll start attacking it from every single different angle and trying to rip that thought apart. And if it stands the test of that, then I'm like, okay, I might be onto something here. I might be able to apply this.

[B]

Yeah. He just told me before we filmed all of my beliefs are not true, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Objectively.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I mean, philosophy is for the most part.

[B]

Yeah. Like, all these beliefs, when you really think about it, came from somewhere else or someone else. They're not your actual beliefs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. You didn't create these.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Now, I got asked that the other day by Jesse Lee Peterson. He goes to me, do you make your own thoughts? And I was like, it's like kind of like making a sandwich. All the ingredients are there and I can use the different ingredients and make myself a sandwich. It might be a shit sandwich. It might be a pretty tasty sandwich. But I didn't actually make any of the ingredients there. I bought them from the shop.

[B]

They've done studies on the where thoughts come from and like, what percentage of it is conscious for subconscious. And I believe a majority. Subconscious thoughts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which people don't know where that comes from.

[A]

Yeah. Makes total sense.

[B]

Crazy, right? So, like, I think it was close to 90% of our thoughts are subconscious.

[A]

Yeah, that makes total sense.

[B]

So we're not really in control of our thoughts at all.

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever, like, looked into some of the work, some of the more mystical work that I've looked into of like Carl Jung and the archetypes of the unconscious mind and this heard of thing? Yeah. So you have archetypes, which is. And like Disney Movies are based upon a lot of these archetypes, which is just sort of these like narrative structures and ideas that we just fundamentally understand. It's almost like it's written into the story, into the DNA. And some of the archetypes might be the benevolent king versus the evil tyrant. And you see this play out in Lion King, for example. This is why people love Mufasa so much, because Mufasa is a benevolent king, he is a leader, he's a patriarch, but everyone really respects him because he's got the best interests of the tribe in mind. And he's tough. You wouldn't want to fuck with Mufasa, but at the same time he has a, he has a tender and gentle side as well. With, with his son. With Simba.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he cares. But then you've got Scar who is the evil dictator. And Scar is very sort of narcissistic and he's very self serving and he's. He'll stab you in the back in a second. And what happens to Pride Rock? Pride Rock falls apart under Scar. So I think a lot of these archetypes, even the Beauty and the Beast archetype is a super interesting one. Like. So you know the movie the Beauty and the Beast, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, the idea here is that it's the feminine, submissive sort of woman who tames the beast. And this is actually something that plays out a lot within female attraction. And it gets really dark but curious. So have you ever seen how females, they love what you'd call like, like fairy porn?

[B]

Fairy porn. Is that like the reading porn?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So it's like things like Twilight. Well, they did. There's this book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts. Right. And it's basically a bunch of Google engineers. They got together and they were studying the Google searches of, of, of people. And there's like a billion different Google searches. And they went into the deepest and darkest fantasies of women. What were women searching when they went on pornographic sites and some of the main things that came up was vampire, werewolf, billionaire, pirate and surgeon.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. And so they're like, what the hell? Like what's going on here? But then you think about it for a second. What's the most popular book with females over the past 10 years?

[B]

Is it Twilight?

[A]

That would be one of them for sure. The females, 50 shades of gray.

[B]

50 shades of gray?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. What is 50 shades of gray? It's like this billionaire who's like this erratic, crazy sort of character who, who is like this, this like beast to the Outside world. And then this timid, like, beauty comes in and she tames him. And then she gets to see a different side of him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's another movie that's extremely popular with women called 365. And it's an Italian mobster who's like a mobster and a killer. And this guy goes and kills, captures this woman and get. Takes her hostage for a whole entire year. And the whole movie is basically the sexual tension between them building up until they eventually fuck on a boat. Wow. Women love this movie. This woman was literally captured, but this Italian mobster boss is just like a sucker for her. And then there's Twilight as well. Why is she attracted to this vampire? Well, it all goes back to this archetype. And there's something about what women really like, which is the beauty and the beast archetype. They like the beast who can be tamed and civilized, but only by them. So I think a lot of men would do well to actually understand this and not to be a beast in the sense that you're like, violent and erratic and everything. But if you are, for example, somebody who's super ambitious with your career and you're out there, you're conquering the world, you don't want to always be like that around your woman. You want to on us on a quiet Sunday morning. You want to sort of let the veil slip maybe for a second, then get up and go to go to the gym.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's a very interesting concept.

[A]

I think women have this deep, deep attraction to men who are a beast in their own right, but who can also be loving and gentle. But they only. They get to almost like they've tamed the beast.

[B]

Right. Only they see that side of them. Very fascinating. Yeah. Nice. Guys finish last, right?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Classic quote.

[A]

But so true. Yep. They're useful idiots, man. Have you ever heard of a saying called sneaky fucker strategy?

[B]

No, what is that?

[A]

This is interesting. So you've got. And this. This is not me being crass. This is actually a zoological term. So the sneaky fucker strategy is basically with pufferfish and a few other different animals, what happens is you've got the alpha and the beta sort of phenotypes of the fish. And so the alpha phenotypes are the ones who get all of the females and they do all of the mating. And then the beta ones who can't compete in the masculine hierarchy, what they actually do is they sort of start to look like the females. They'll try and actually Disguise themselves as the females to try and bypass the male gatekeepers and get away into the crowd so that they can then get away from the alphas and then try and mate with the females when the alphas aren't looking. And I think that this exact thing happens with feminine, male, feminist, nice guys in the human race.

[B]

Yeah. They get bypassed.

[A]

Right. Well, the thing is they are trying to game the system. So obviously there's a masculine hierarchy and that what at the very top of that masculine hierarchy is guys who are big, strong, competent leaders who are admired by other men and who are wanted by other women. Wealthy, right? Yeah, exactly, wealthy, exactly. That's the sort of the Hercules. And then at the bottom of the hierarchy you got, you have guys who are little, short, feminine, their temperament, not very ambitious, a little bit useless, not very competent.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So you can either spend your whole entire life trying to compete in that masculine hierarchy and trying to get to the top or at least get, get it up as high as you can, or you can be a sneaky fucker and you can grow your hair out long and you can wear the colorful tie dye shirts and you can go to the raves and you can wear pink and then you can dance with all the girls and try and deceive them into sleeping with you in some sort of like a drunken, drug stooped house. And you see a lot of this, these male feminists who try and look like the women whenever you see these guys with the long hair and who wear like the tight singlets and you know, just look very feminine in their temperament. I, I truly think that is just a mating strategy.

[B]

Really. Yeah, yeah. They're playing the short term game. But I'm always about being the best version of yourself.

[A]

100.

[B]

You got to play the long game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially these days.

[A]

And even if you do get, they let you sleep with them or whatever. When a woman is pregnant, she's looking for a man who's about his business. Right. You know, and she's going to lose respect for you real quick if she's depending on you for protection and for provision and you're, oh, I don't feel like going to work today, I stubbed my toe. Or I just want to have a mental health day or something like that. Yeah. Don't listen to any of that garbage societal programming that's going on there about, about becoming more feminized because a lot of guys get sucked into that trap 100% sure.

[B]

Back in the day.

[A]

Oh yeah, man, it's brutal. It's Brutal. I have to. They get sucked into this trap and then they become useful idiots for the feminist conditioning. Like the women won't actually respect you. Women respect men who have boundaries. Women who respect men who stand for something, who are ambitious and also who can tell them no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who can tell them shut up if they need to be quiet.

[B]

But you got to have some leverage first to get to that position. Right. You got to make some money. You got to be doing some sort of valuable thing for the relationship.

[A]

You got to be a good horse for them to put their money on.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Because it's hard to have that stance when you're broke.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You got no leverage at that point.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Maybe your looks, but that's fleeting.

[A]

Yeah, looks is one thing, but like, like I said before, you know, it's when, when she's. When she's six months pregnant and she's looking at you to hold things down because she, she doesn't really want to stand up. She just wants to sit there with her belly in. Be pregnant, which is what she should have to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just to be chilling during that time. Then you better be able to hold it down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, 100.

[B]

You want kids?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Yeah, same here.

[A]

Hopefully lots.

[B]

When I was atheist, I didn't.

[A]

Yeah, I was questioning it too.

[B]

I was atheist for like 10 years, I'd say.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Middle school, high school, and a little bit after.

[A]

How old are you?

[B]

I'm 28.

[A]

28? Yeah. I'm 30.

[B]

Yeah. I would say right before the pod is when I started questioning stuff. Similar time period to you.

[A]

And where are you at now?

[B]

I wouldn't tie myself to a religion, but I'm spiritual.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I believe in the creator.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And is there anything that makes sense to you in regards to the nature of that creator?

[B]

Well, I believe in. I have a weird belief actually. Like I believe in things from multiple religions, so I believe in reincarnation. I believe in past lives, believe in a creator, karma. So I kind of just study a bunch of different religions and take what I like.

[A]

Do you ever find any of them logically contradicting themselves?

[B]

If I dug into it deep enough, I'm sure I would. But I haven't done what you've done when it comes to research.

[A]

Yeah. Well, if you ever want any references or anything, then just let me know for sure. I think especially one of the things that is pretty red pilling in this regard is looking into the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's the time that really got me really the fact that there's actually a lot of evidence for it.

[B]

Do you believe it actually happened?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that actually I did.

[B]

See articles about they found some scarf or whatever.

[A]

What, the Shroud of Turin?

[B]

Yeah, they found.

[A]

Crazy. Yeah, yeah. The Shroud of Turin is insane. Like, you know, they thought that they debunked it. I think in the 90s they got a little bit of it and they tried to carbon date it and they said, oh, this is from like the 15th century, this is a hoax. But then they realized that they had actually gotten the wrong part because it was burnt. The place where it was, was burnt down a couple of hundred years ago. And so they got the wrong part and then they did it again recently and they got a different part of the shroud and it goes exactly back to the time when Jesus was killed.

[B]

Wow. Right.

[A]

And all of the. Unlike the blood soaked shroud, it's like a. I think it's something like a 3D negative or something. I can't remember exactly what the term for it is, but basically I'm a bit retarded when it comes to this technological stuff. But basically the only way in which that could have happened is if. Is if at the moment, at that very moment there was an extreme blast. Like we actually couldn't recreate the shroud today with all of our modern technology. Yeah, There had to be an extreme blast, like a massive blast to make that. And then they've done like a 4D imaging of it. Now they've recreated it in 4D imaging. You actually see Jesus lying there. It's crazy.

[B]

That is fascinating.

[A]

Yeah. And there's just so many, so many things like that. And it's eventually after a while you just think to yourself, you can keep on denying it or you can get on your knees and, and you can start praying and see. And see if God opens the door.

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I denied, I would say I'm open. I used to pray and I did used to see results from it. But that, to me, I didn't know if that was God or just manifestation, you know what I mean? Because I would pray when like I had a stomach ache and then it would go away.

[A]

Well, I think that manifestation has to be God, because manifestation. If, whenever I see people talking about manifestation, manifestation, I think to myself, well, that you're, you're implying that there's an order to the world. Because if, if manifestation is, I think and then I get, or I think and I grow rich, these sorts of things. They all do make sense. But that would, that would imply that there's order. And actually that's a presupposition that if you don't believe in God, you really can't have. Because atheists, for example, just believe that everything is chaos, right? That there is no actual structure and order to the world. So if there's no structure in order to the world and we're just a cosmic accident and we come from a big bang and everything's just, you know, then. Then why would there be metaphysical concepts that are ordered and structured? Why would I be able to abstract? Why would there be abstractions that can create order? Abstractions aren't even real in the atheist worldview. That would mean that there is a metaphysical reality.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Where do you stand on the destiny versus free will debate?

[A]

Destiny versus free will.

[B]

Do you believe as humans we have full free will or do you believe we are destined to like, do you think you're destined to be here right now?

[A]

No, I think that we have free will.

[C]

100.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, nothing's predetermined. Death, all that.

[A]

We're gonna die. Yeah, I mean, we're all gonna die, but I don't think it's necessarily predetermined. I do think. I do believe in divine intervention, but I don't believe. So you've got the. With Christians, you've got a few different sort of, sort of ideas here. And this is actually really hard to wrestle with. These are very deep and interesting philosophical ideas. With the Sam Harris argument that doesn't make sense. Sam Harris's argument about the moral landscape doesn't make sense because he's basically trying to create a. He's trying to create an objective morality through atheism. Right. But, you know, like, it, it doesn't make sense because Sam Harris is ultimately a materialist. And with a materialist, you can't create good and bad, good and evil, and these sort of abstractions because he just believes in materialism.

[B]

So he doesn't believe in duality.

[A]

He doesn't believe. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He believes that we're just material. He doesn't believe we have a soul. Any sort of, like, proper governing factor.

[B]

Yeah, I believe we have a soul. Yeah, definitely.

[A]

So. So his idea is that we, we have no free will because we are just chemical beings, right? Just proteins and neurons, etc. So nothing we do is actually us doing it. So then how can you create objective morality? How can. If I was to lean over there and punch you in the face. Well, it's Just my atoms. It's just the chemical reaction. I didn't do anything wrong, according to Sam Harris. But then he's trying to say that things can be good or bad and objectively evil, and it makes no sense. There isn't a moral landscape if you're just thinking the way he thinks. It's just all chaos. But with Christians it's a little bit different. So you've got the Calvinist idea. And what the Calvinists think is that we don't have free will, that everything is predetermined. And it's a very strong philosophical argument that's very hard to actually contend with because they believe that if God is all powerful and all knowing, if they would ask you, as a Christian, do you believe that God is all powerful and all knowing? Well, yeah. Well, then he would have obviously known that you were going to sin before you sinned. He would have known what you were going to do before you were born. So then he's actually condemned you when he, when you were born, he actually condemned you to hell and he condemned certain people to heaven. We have no free will because God is all knowing and all powerful. But then I think the, the other argument against that is that actually God doesn't operate on the same sort of linear time trajectory as we do. So he's not saying, all right, it's, you know, November 2025. That's not the way that God thinks. God is. God is outside of time. He's outside of space, he's outside of material.

[B]

I've heard that argument where time isn't linear.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

So I actually buy into that too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So time is a construct.

[B]

Yeah. Because this calendar was man made.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It wasn't the same calendar they used in the past.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So time is a construct, like, just like so many things that we know are. But it's an interesting debate and it's very interesting when you look at it through the Calvinists and the orthodox, because that's a, that's a hard one to wrestle with.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know where I stand on it because I work so hard. Like, I feel like I want to believe that we have free will and like I earned everything I have in my life. But I do hear this destiny argument all the time.

[A]

Yeah, I, I don't think so. I don't think that anyone's destined to be a child. Child. No.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I didn't know we'd get so philosophical on this. I thought we were going to talk politics. Man it's cool that you've done all this research. You know your history very well. Yeah, this is really cool, man. Anything else you want to close off with here?

[A]

Promote Just Rattlesnake tv. We do a lot of live streams when I'm not traveling. I'll do five or six times a week, the Extravaganza with myself and Andrew Wilson and then Rob Knorr. A lot of the time as well is on there. We do that 5pm Eastern, Monday to Thursday Eastern time. And it's been great to meet you, man. I really, really enjoy what you're doing here.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for setting this up. We're about to have a fun debate here now, so stay tuned. Guys, Andrew Wilson versus Coach Craig Adams. I look forward to doing more stuff with you in the future, Jake. Yeah, have a good one. Check out the links, guys. I'll see you next time.

[C]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

[B]

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.