James Fox: Best UFO Photo? James Fox on Calvine & Cover-Ups | DSH #1531

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour

Episode: James Fox: Best UFO Photo? James Fox on Calvine & Cover-Ups | DSH #1531
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: James Fox (UFO researcher & documentarian)
Date: September 12, 2025

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Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Sean Kelly hosts acclaimed UFO documentarian James Fox for an unfiltered conversation focused on the most compelling UFO evidence, government cover-ups, crash retrieval programs, and personal experiences investigating the phenomenon worldwide. The episode zeroes in on the Calvine UFO photo—considered by Fox the best-ever UFO photograph—as well as decades of both skepticism and mounting mainstream attention. Fox brings raw insight from his investigative work, citing firsthand witnesses, whistleblowers, military encounters, and newly released high-resolution data. The tone is candid, alternating between skepticism, awe, and Fox’s clear conviction that if what he's witnessed is true, "it would be the biggest story ever."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Calvine UFO Photograph: The “Best UFO Photo Ever” (00:38–02:14)

• Fox describes the decades-long chase to uncover the Calvine UFO photo, first revealed by UK MOD official Nick Pope.
• Details: Taken in 1990 in Scotland, broad daylight, with points of reference including a military jet circling a disc-shaped craft, witnessed by two civilians.
• James Fox: “I’ve been quietly chasing this story for a long time because I never want to let anything of that… potential big story… get buried.” (01:17)

Suppression and Authenticity

• Governments globally have suppressed such photographic evidence, fearing public panic and revealing vulnerabilities.
• “By exposing what you know, you’re exposing also what you don’t know and our vulnerabilities. And that is primarily the biggest reason for secrecy.” – James Fox (03:43)

2. The Nature & Secrecy of the Phenomenon (02:29–04:08)

• Governments hide evidence not necessarily out of malice, but due to not understanding the origin or intent, and fearing to “admit” the phenomenon is real.
• The phenomenon is described as highly advanced, with objects displaying “no wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, no sound barrier, no air disturbance, no noise.” (03:10)

3. James Fox’s Journey from Skeptic to Researcher (04:11–05:28)

• Fox initially dismissed UFO claims, thinking friends had lost their minds, only to become convinced of the phenomenon after looking further into cases like Roswell.
• Quote: “I thought to myself, I’m gonna have to cut this guy loose… I approached it, I came into it not believing at all. And I was going to quickly disprove it. And then I scratched the surface. Here I am 30 plus years later, like, holy shit, this is a big story.” (04:19–05:19)

4. Investigating Major UFO Cases: From Roswell to Varginha (05:28–16:12)

• Roswell: Fox details deep dives, confirming direct testimony from military officers who handled debris.
  • “For them to mistake like a flying saucer for like a weather balloon… that just doesn’t make any sense.” (05:41)
• Varginha, Brazil, 1996: Initially dismissed by Fox, but became convinced after respected witnesses and years of investigation.
  • “Multiple trips back and forth. I was like, holy shit, this probably happened.” (15:07)
  • Notably, US personnel appeared and rapidly removed the crash evidence, reinforcing the idea of covert recovery programs. (24:16–26:21)

5. Government Crash Retrieval Programs & “Men in Black” (23:09–29:21)

• Detailed mechanisms of “waived unacknowledged special access programs” (WooSaps) allow the government to bypass oversight and swiftly recover crashed materials.
• Fox asserts Men in Black (or “men in dark suits”) are real figures tasked with recovering evidence and intimidating witnesses:
  • “Men in black, in my opinion, are absolutely real. Holy crap. I know, it’s got a lot of baggage…” (23:49)
• Examples from Australia (Westall 1966), Zimbabwe (Ariel School 1994), and more.

6. The Media, Ridicule Policy, and Recent Disclosure (16:18–21:15)

• The 1953 Robertson Panel’s recommendation: ridiculing UFO reports to manage the narrative—a policy that Fox says led to decades of suppression and shame.
  • “That policy of ridicule was adopted in 1953… and so that is why that ridicule was so strong. In fact, I was laughed at and made fun of for a very long time, like decades.” (18:11)
• Recent Congressional hearings and testimony from intelligence officials/whistleblowers have shifted public and media attitude.
  • “Most of the evidence hasn’t seen the light of day.” — Senator Harry Reid, as recounted by Fox (10:24)

7. The Challenge of Genuine Evidence in the Age of the Internet (16:12–29:21)

• Fox laments how genuine cases are drowned out by online disinformation, intentional or accidental, making discernment crucial.
• Despite smartphones, the most compelling data is held by military sensory systems, satellites, and classified programs.

8. Abduction Cases and Direct Encounters (32:13–39:09)

• Fox is cautious about abduction reports but highlights the Travis Walton case (“Fire in the Sky”) for the number of credible witnesses and the dramatic disappearance/reappearance (35:19–36:05).
• Touches on researchers like Bud Hopkins, John Mack, and the global consistency of experiencers’ descriptions—e.g., symbols drawn under hypnosis.

9. Theories of Origin: Interdimensional, Ancient, and Ongoing (37:31–41:12)

• Physicist Jacques Vallée’s work: Phenomena may be interdimensional, not just extraterrestrial; references to cave art and historical accounts support long-term presence.
  • “Wonders in the Sky” museum-type documentation is cited.

10. UFOs and Nuclear Weapons (48:08–50:30)

• One of the most astonishing findings, per former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid: “they’re disabling our nuclear weapons.” (48:08)
• Fox features interviews with launch control officers who experienced unexplained missile shutdowns—interpreted as a “clear message… it’s kind of like taking matches out of the hands of a baby.” (49:56)

11. The Ongoing Cover-Up: Intimidation, Whistleblowers, and Retrievals (53:31–59:00)

• Whistleblowers are often frightened into silence through intimidation or direct visits.
• Multiple documented cases of “men in suits” rapidly arriving on scene after incidents, confiscating evidence, and interrogating witnesses.
• Large-scale incidents like the Phoenix Lights (1997) involved mass sightings, rapid military response, and subsequent suppression.

12. Current & Future Investigations (58:56–61:38)

• Fox’s latest film “The Program” documents recent Congressional hearings, crash retrieval claims, and interviews with high-level officials.
• Documentary details are readily available online (“Moment of Contact,” “The Phenomenon,” “The Program”).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “By exposing what you know, you’re exposing also what you don’t know and our vulnerabilities. And that is primarily the biggest reason for secrecy.” — James Fox (03:43)
• On initial skepticism: “I approached it, I came into it not believing at all…Then I scratched the surface. Here I am 30 plus years later, like, holy shit, this is a big story.” (05:19)
• Senator Harry Reid: “Most of the evidence hasn’t seen the light of day.” (10:24)
• On crash retrieval secrecy: “They have these… ‘waived unacknowledged special access programs’…exempt from oversight from Congress. That’s how they hide it.” (23:09)
• On nuclear interference: “Without a moment’s hesitation, he [Reid] said, ‘they’re disabling our nuclear weapons.’” (48:08)
• From a launch control officer: “It’s kind of like taking matches out of the hands of a baby.” (49:56)
• On Men in Black: “Men in black, in my opinion, are absolutely real… The better the case, the more likely is they’re going to show up. And they show up pretty damn quickly.” (23:49 & 53:37)
• Final message: “Don’t believe me. Don’t believe anything I just said. But imagine for a second if it’s true. How big of a story would you consider that…? Suspend judgment, check it out and draw your own conclusions.” (61:42)

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Timestamped Segment Highlights

• Calvine photo & MOD cover-up (00:38–02:14)
• Why governments suppress UFO evidence (02:29–04:08)
• Fox’s origin story as skeptic (04:11–05:28)
• Roswell deep dive (technology claims, witness intimidation) (05:28–07:32)
• Brazil Varginha case & global crash retrieval operations (13:20–16:11, 24:16–26:21)
• Congressional hearings and Harry Reid interview (09:49–10:37, 48:08)
• “Men in Black” intimidation of witnesses internationally (23:49–29:21; 53:31–57:42)
• Ridicule policy and media culture (16:18–18:11)
• Abduction: Travis Walton & cross-cultural symbols (32:19–37:20)
• Jacques Vallée: alternative theories (37:31–39:09)
• Interference with nuclear weapons (48:08–50:30)
• Phoenix Lights mass sighting & cover-up (57:42–59:00)
• Upcoming projects: “The Program”, new evidence, ongoing work (58:56–61:38)
• Final thoughts: “Suspend judgment…” (61:42)

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, often humorous, and intensely curious—anchored by Fox’s experience, humility, and persistent skepticism-turned-conviction. Both host and guest resist absolute claims, emphasizing personal investigation and the power of corroborated testimony over single-source anecdotes.

Fox’s advice to listeners: absorb evidence, suspend disbelief, but draw your own conclusions—because if true, it is “the biggest story ever.”

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Further Exploration

• Films: [The Phenomenon], [Moment of Contact], [The Program]
• Key Cases: Calvine photo, Roswell, Varginha (Brazil), Phoenix Lights, Westall (Australia), Ariel School (Zimbabwe), Tehran & Belgium wave incidents

Recommended Links:

• Official podcast page for episode video/audio
• Linked documentaries as referenced in the episode

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Transcript

[James Fox]

All together. They go back. UFO gone. Travis gone. They look for him for a couple hours. First gone. He's just gone. And so they go down into town, they tell the authorities what happened. And they were like, you guys are all under arrest for homicide. Nobody believed him, obviously. They were like, we'll take lie detector tests, you know, so it makes world news. I mean, everybody's talking about. Because so many witnesses, and they're just sticking to their story.

[Interviewer]

All right, guys, got James Fox here. We're going to talk UFOs. He has the. The best photograph of a UFO captured. We'll throw it up on the screen, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah, for sure. You know, I. It's one thing when you've got, you know, there's so many things circulated online, right. And you could see something that looks like maybe perhaps it was, you know, AI generated or something. But we did a deep dive into a photograph that, quite honestly, I'd been chasing down for over 25 years is I'd heard about it through a gentleman, Nick Pope, who investigated UFOs in an official capacity for the Ministry of Defense of England. So I was like, what's the best case that you ever investigated? He's like, well, we buried it, but it happened in 1990 in Scotland. And so I'd heard about this photo, and he's like, broad daylight. There were points of reference. I mean, there was a military jet circling around it. And he was like, it was probably the best photograph ever. Five prints, two witnesses, broad daylight. So I've been quietly chasing this story for a long time because I never want to let anything of that, you know, that potential big story, you know, get buried.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I keep my sights on it, but a gentleman named David Clark in England found it. It's a long story, and I won't bore your audience with the details, but I. So that's why we have that photograph today. But I did a deep dive in my film, the program, you know, went to the location. I talked to the RAF press officer, Craig Lindsey. I talked to the lead investigator. I interviewed the Ministry of Defense guy, Nick Pope.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Who talks about it at the time, back in 1990. And. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about it today because it's considered the best photograph ever taken of a ufo. Wow.

[Interviewer]

We'll throw it up on the screen for guys watching on video. And if you're on audio, we'll have a link below. You could click to see it.

[James Fox]

Yeah. You know, people always go, oh, man, if UFOs real, there'd be a There'd be photographic evidence. I'm like, well, there is. The government has made a big effort to squash the really good photos. But I can give you examples of photos over the decades, and that's. But I consider that to be the best one.

[Interviewer]

And that's the interesting thing to me, that governments across the world are suppressing this stuff. So they all agree that they don't want this out there.

[James Fox]

Here's the problem, you know, and I ask your audience, just like, let's just forget. Let's just suspend judgment on the UAP topic and just imagine for a moment that they're real. Whether you believe they're real or you don't believe they're real, let's just say real. Okay, so you have objects of unknown origin exhibiting a technology that's light years advanced from our fastest jets. And this has been going on since the 30s, 40s, you know, and then some would say historically millennia. They fly rings around our fastest jets. They display a propulsion that is just like not jet, a fuel. They have no wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, no sound barrier, no air disturbance, no noise. We don't know who they are, where they come from, or what they want. Let's just assume that's true. They're whizzing around our airspace globally with impunity. Some say they're interacting with nuclear facilities and all that sort of stuff. That's not the type of information, no matter what government you're from, no matter what country you're from, that they want to generally disclose to the general public, for obvious reasons, because you're admitting that the phenomenon is real. It's nuts and bolts. There's also a psychic element to it. You don't know who it is. You don't know origins and intent. And there's just really nothing in it for a military force to disclose that nature of information to the general public. Because you're exposing what you. By exposing what you know, you're exposing also what you don't know and our vulnerabilities. And that is primarily the biggest reason for secrecy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you've been studying this for many years now, right?

[James Fox]

Forever. And that's a mighty long time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm 57, and I started when I was 25.

[Interviewer]

Were you sold initially, or did you need to close?

[James Fox]

Oh, my God. I was. No. So funny. Actually, that's a great question. So I had a really good friend in high school. His name is Rene Harrison. When we graduated, we were 18. We flew to Europe. We bought a car In London, we headed down south to Portugal. I mean, we were like best friends. We had just a fantastic time. Just goofed off and doing odd stuff. And when I got. And actually he flew back early cause he wasn't cut out for the international thing. He was like, man, I'm always hungry. He's like, these are such small portions over here. This is ridiculous. Anyway, so I stayed on for like another year or so. And when I came back to the States, we reconnected and he started talking about UFOs and alien spaceships that crashed at Roswell. And I'm not kidding you, man, I looked at, I looked at him and I thought to myself, I'm gonna have to cut this guy loose. And I just lost one of my best friends. It's really sad. He's clearly lost his mind. And so I approached it, I came into it not believing it at all. And I was going to quickly disprove it. And then I scratched the surface. Here I am 30 plus years later, like, holy shit, this is a big story.

[Interviewer]

So Roswell was the first one you really took a deep dive into?

[James Fox]

Yeah, I actually went to Roswell for the 50th anniversary. I met with a lot of the firsthand witnesses. I met with Jesse Marcel Jr. Who's the son of the intelligence officer Jesse Marcel, the first military officer at the debris field who handled the debris. He personally held it in his hands. I knew him, I was friends with him. You know, I met with a lot of the people. And you know, one of the things that people don't realize about Roswell because they go, oh, an alien spaceship craft, Come on, man, just, you know, go sell crazy somewhere else. Like, well, if you look into it, they're the ones that announced it to the world. The 509th Bomb Squadron at the time was the only bomb squadron in the world exclusively responsible for the deployment of atomic weapons. The Enola Gay was based there. They were an elite group of military folks. So for them to mistake like a flying saucer for like a weather balloon, which is later what they ended up saying happened. Oh, terribly sorry. What we initially thought was a flying saucer turned out to be a weather balloon. Yeah, that just doesn't make any sense. And then almost everybody that was involved in the COVID up and the photographic evidence, if you look at the press conference In July of 1947 with General Roger Ramey, Colonel Dubose and Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer Jesse Marcel, two out of the three came clean on camera and said that was, it was the initial story was true that Was. That's not. We were, we were shut down. Wow.

[Interviewer]

Do you think some technology was recovered from that one?

[James Fox]

No question. No question.

[Interviewer]

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[James Fox]

Yeah. You know, I interviewed a colonel, his name was Philip Corso and I interviewed him in that he came forward in 1997. He died like a year or two later and he. I have to start off with this is that I don't know this to be true. Obviously I wasn't there. Yeah, I wasn't in the labs. But according to him, and some say he's controversial because there were some discrepancies in his book. But according to him and a lot of people are now believing this is true, super tenacity fibers, lasers, maybe, maybe it helped advance microchips, things of this nature. But he said that this is what he told me and again I, I don't know this to be fact but he said that that was seeded unknowingly into various companies. Right. Like the military industrial complex kind of seeded this out. Yeah, like hey, what's this? Take a look at this. Could have been, could have been Russian, could have been something else. No, it didn't say but it was like he said it looked like like, like fiber optics. Looked like what turned out to be fiber optics. Looks like fishing line is what they found or felt like fishing line back in 47. And he said there were, there were no provisions on the craft that he goes. We were, we were puzzled like there was no, no provisions. The entities that were recovered again this is according to him and I heard it from him to me and he saw them. They were. Had large heads, they had the almond shaped eyes, they were spindly legs and arms about three and a half feet tall. No provisions, no reproductive organs, slits for mouths. That's what he said. And he saw them. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, because they communicate through telepathy, right?

[James Fox]

That's exactly right. Yeah. Dang.

[Interviewer]

That is crazy.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That is so nuts to Me?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's like a movie almost.

[James Fox]

I know, I know. And. And I don't expect. If anyone hasn't looked into it, I wouldn't expect them to believe it because I certainly didn't.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And. And it took me a long time, and now I've actually known more than anything else. I mean, I did a film called the Program recently that just dropped, but I also, I did a film called the Phenomenon, and then after the Phenomenon, which really was one of the first UFO documentaries to really transcend into. Out of. Outside of the UFO community and into a more mainstream audience.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I mean, we. I interviewed a former Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, who started the secret Pentagon UFO program that was on the front page of the New York Times in 2017.

[Interviewer]

Airport's named after him, right?

[James Fox]

Yes, exactly. And so I met with him. I was the only one to meet with him and get him on camera before he was diagnosed with cancer. Incredible interview. And he admitted, I sucks. So you're suggesting that the evidence that was on the front page of the New York Times is there's a lot more that hasn't seen the light of day. And he goes, long pause. This is coming from former Senate Majority Leader. I mean, he's a really powerful man. He goes, most of the Evidence hasn't seen the light of day. Yeah. And I. And that made news because it was coming from. I mean, he's a household name.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

You know, but any case after I did that, I did a film called Moment of Contact, and so it's free streaming on YouTube movies. And Moment of Contact covered a UFO, an alleged UFO crash that took place in Virginia, Brazil, in 1996. And it's funny because when I first heard about that alleged case, I was making my second UFO doc called out of the Blue with a. With a British. With a British reporter named Tim Coleman. And Tim, we. Every time I start a new project, I sort of do broad strokes of concepts of what I want to cover cases I want to go investigate.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And we were just exploring on the. On the board. And my friend Tim Coleman, and I'll remind your audience, I was making my second UFO documentary at the time, and he said, oh, mate, bloody hell. Have you heard about this case in England? I'm sorry, In Brazil, it's like this UFO crash and these live aliens are walking through the town. And I thought, I picked the wrong partner. This guy's lost his mind. I looked at him and I said, I'm not going to waste one second on that case. And I didn't and he was quite cross with me. Like, I. I refused to even look at any of the literature, any of the reporting, nothing. I was like, I'm not selling crazy out there. No, thank you. So like, I did out of the blue that I did another film, which is a two hour special for History Channel called I Know what I Saw. And then I was invited to Brazil in like 2010, maybe 2011. And I get a phone. Actually, yeah, I get a phone call from this guy named Jeff Sagansky. He used to run Sony Pictures. Very respectful guy. And he quietly and discreetly, behind the scenes, had always helped me get distribution for my movies, which at the time, you know, UFOs were really not that, you know, respected at all.

[Interviewer]

It was like a conspiracy at the time, right?

[James Fox]

Totally. And so he. But he was like, dude, I can't have my name on this, but I'm gonna help you behind the scenes. So anyway, so I had a lot of respect for him, and he was also very influential in my process, right? So I wasn't gonna say anything rude to him. So he calls me and he's like. He's like, oh, I heard you're going to Brazil. And I said, yeah. And he goes, you gotta look into that Virginia case with the UFO crash. And I went, oh, God, shit, not this guy. This guy's fucking lost his marbles too. Like, I. So I said, yeah, okay, Jeff. Yeah, sure, I'll look into that. For sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Click. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. So I arrive in Brazil with zero intention of looking into a case which I consider to be absolute garbage, like a complete and utter waste of my time. I get there and I'm in a place called Peru Ibe. And it's kind of. I think it's in the south. And anyway, it's right on the coast, and right off the coast is this island that has this snake. And it's the only island in the world that has this snake. And its venom is very poisonous and very valuable. And so we were sitting at a cafe. I just arrived, and I was with a group of individuals. And one of them was this guy who's a nuclear physicist, UFO researcher, who's the grandfather of Roswell. His name is Stanton Friedman. He passed a few years ago, but he was the most respected scientist that was pushing really hard for further transparency on UFOs. I had tremendous respect for him. He's not an idiot. Anyone can look him up. Stanton Friedman, he's a nuclear physicist. And we're all calming on this island. And the poachers apparently would go out to this island and they would. And the snakes would drop out of the trees and kill. They said it's littered with, like, dead pups. Poachers on this island. Some people would make their way back with the poison. I guess we're talking about that. And then the topic of the death of a military officer involved in capturing one of the alleged creatures in 1996 in Virginia, Brazil. And I was like, oh, God, here we go. And Stanton Friedman goes, oh, yeah, James, you haven't heard about that case? I said, well, I've heard about it. He goes, oh, yeah, that's largely considered to be the Roswell of Brazil. And I was like, God, Standard Friedman is so respectable. He's a physicist. He was like, yeah, I was around in Brazil, coincidentally, when it happened. I met a lot of the witnesses. Very compelling. You should look into it. Wow. So very reluctantly, I started looking into it. Got a couple years in.

[Interviewer]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.

[James Fox]

Multiple trips back and forth. I was like, holy shit, this probably happened. Wow. And so here I am, 15, 16 years later. I made a documentary on it. And. And I remember Joe Rogan heard about it because. And Joe Rogan, I don't think, was inviting me back on his show because he was like, I'm not going to be selling crazy on this thing. But then a couple of the guests were like, look, Joe, I know. Like, you should look at it, you know, because I tell people, like, don't let me tell you, because forget about me, right? Just listen to the witnesses. Listen to the people that we meet with that all had to bend over backwards to get to come forward. And you draw your own conclusions. And everybody who's seen it goes, holy shit, this probably happened, including Rogan. So Rogan wouldn't even look at the movie until it was told on a couple of people. And I don't blame him because I had the same reaction. Anyway, so, yeah, I'm kind of known for that case of this. It's ongoing. I just got back a little while ago, and I'm going to do an updated version of Moment of Contact that'll be released for the 30th anniversary.

[Interviewer]

I'll check that one out.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I never know what to believe with the alien stuff on social media, because I feel like there's a lot of misdirection and distractions, you know?

[James Fox]

Oh, absolutely. You got to sift through the garbage. And I hate to say this, but the vast majority, unfortunately, is, yeah, sometimes I wonder if it was deliberate. And in fact, there was a very compelling sighting back in 1952 over Washington, D.C. and it took place over two consecutive weekends in July. Anybody can Google it. It was the flyover of Washington with UFOs. It was on every newspaper headline and it was so compelling, they scrambled military jets to intercept it. These things flew rings around the jets. I mean, it was a fascinating case. It was so compelling and so in our face that they had to have a press conference. And they had a press conference with General John Stanford. And he got up and basically confessed in 1952 that, yeah, you know, I mean, it's the press conference. Look it up. John Stanford, General John Sanford, 1952 UFOs over in Washington D.C. and basically he was like, yeah, you know, extraordinary people are seeing pretty extraordinary things. And we. And it's not us. And it was a pretty big disclosure back in 1952. So the air Force didn't know what to do with the problem. So they convened a panel in early 1953 called the. I think it was the Roberson Panel. And they got together a panel of very prominent scientists and, like, how to deal with the problem. And ultimately came back to the Air Force with a report, it was headed by the CIA. And they said, well, you know, because the Air Force is like, this is a problem they don't think about. They don't look at it from the perspective of the philosophical implications of, wow, there might be indications that we're not alone. To them, there's unknown shit in the airspace that they don't have control over. It's flying rings around our fastest jets. That's a problem. And it's flying over the White House. Right. So this panel came back and the recommendation they made was, look, you know, we can't control the phenomenon, but what we could do is we can shift policy and basically say, you know, people are nuts. Just ridicule. And that policy of ridicule was adopted in 1953 by this panel, and it was the most effective. I gotta tip my hat to the Air Force. It was a very effective campaign. And so that is why that ridicule was so strong. In fact, I was laughed at and made fun of for a very long time, like decades. And just recently, we've had three congressional hearings in the last couple of years. You had the New York Times reporting on secret Pentagon UFO program. You had people that were involved with the program, like Lou Elizondo. Coming forward, going on national TV around the world actually saying, yeah, the phenomenon is real. They released tapes from Air Force cockpits, Navy cockpits, and I had members of my family from all around the world that were ridiculing the laughing friends, family members. And they were like, holy shit, James, you're not nuts. It looks like there is something to this. Like, whoa, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Must feel liberating.

[James Fox]

The second congressional hearing, this dealt with David Grush, and it was on crash retrieval. Now, remind your audience that I had just done a documentary prior to any of those congressional hearings on a crash retrieval case involving the Americans that took place in Brazil in 1996. And I'm watching a high level intelligence officer testifying to a bipartisan group of lawmakers in real time. I was watching it about a crash retrieval program, that we have bodies in our possession, hardware and spaceships of non human intelligence to a bipartisan group of lawmakers under oath. Okay, so I'm watching this. I never thought, I never thought in my own lifetime I would see this. And I sat there and it was only time. My son was like nine at the time. But I completely ignored. My son was trying to play with me. And I was like, I looked at him and I said, not now. I got to, you know, and I was glued watching the live thing and I had tears pouring down my face for the entire time because I've been laughed at, ridiculed, and made fun of for so long, I bet. And there it was, right before the whole world to see, you know, and the, and you know, you can't like the repercussions of testifying under oath to a bipartisan group law. Why in hell would he do that? Why? What? There's nothing for him to gain. Nothing. And he's saying, I provided all the details needed to verify my claims to the icig, the intelligence community, Inspector General Thomas Manheim, all the details, locations, street addresses, names of the organizations, where the hardware is, where the bodies are. He provided all that to Thomas Mannheim.

[Interviewer]

So nothing happened?

[James Fox]

Well, there's a lot of stuff happening. They just had another congressional hearing that I attended just the end of last year, and there's talks of other ones. And now David Grusch is working with members of Congress. He just got into a skiff a couple weeks ago. So they, they, so they. It's really funny, actually, because. Tell your audience. So, so David Grush goes on, on Joe Rogan right after the congressional hearings, I don't know, a couple months after the congressional hearings. Excuse me. And he's like they tried to pass legislation and they passed it in the Senate and then the House shot it down. And the legislation essentially is law, is that they have to, the companies that have these materials have to. And if there's nothing to see, just pass the legislation. We'll find out what happens. We'll see what happens. The Senate passed it. They talked about it on the floor of the Senate. Both the Senate Majority leader, I think of his name in a second. But Charles. Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer talked about it on the Democratic side. Senator Mike Rounds talked about it on the Republican side to pass this legislation. And it was shot down in the House and was shot down in the House primarily by these two guys, Mike Turner and another gentleman. But basically, if you look at where they're from, it's like, you know, Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, is in their district and Raytheon like all these, like, contractors for the, you know, and it's like, and they're like, oh, yeah, there's, that's, there's been rumors for years and this other thing. And then they shot down the legislation. It's like, well, okay, if it's true that you're telling us there's nothing to see here. Just pass it. Let's find out. But they shot it down. So it's like you don't listen to what people say. You watch what they do, Right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So you say, oh, there's nothing to it. Well, pass legislation. So that's, that's, that's still in the works. And so, yeah, but it's, but it's, it's, it's, it's coming out. It's coming out, hopefully. And it's a big, it's a big, it's a pretty big story.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. To see that one. How did the retrieval programs work? Is that for all crashes or is it specifically for UAP crashes?

[James Fox]

So I, you know, I'm, I'm trying to figure it out myself, but apparently they've got these. How they get the funding is what's called WooSaps, and it's waived unacknowledged special access programs. And they're. I think they're under the umbrella of Department of Energy. Not entirely sure, but I think they are. And it's like sort of national security and exempt from oversight from Congress. Now, I don't know if the Gang of Eight would have necessarily access or they wouldn't know about it, but they could certainly make inquiries into it. But that's how I'm told by People in the program that have been in the program, that's how they hide it. Wow.

[Interviewer]

So the men in black could be real?

[James Fox]

The men in black, in my opinion, are absolutely real. Holy crap. I know. It's got a lot of baggage. Jade. Men in black, I call them men in dark suits because I just kind of avoid that. You know, that, that, that, that, that word. Yeah, it's like. I think it's one of, kind of why they change the word ufo. I still use it.

[Interviewer]

Uap.

[James Fox]

Yeah, they call it uap. Identified Anomalous Phenomena. It was Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, but they change it to anonymous because they're coming in and out of the oceans too.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy. So they're just ready to go and there's a crash. Like they got guys on the ground everywhere.

[James Fox]

So this individual had to remain nameless. But I was talking to him because I'm again, I'm trying to figure this out. Like, I was investigating this alleged crash in Roswell. I'm sorry, Roswell. When I say the Roswell of Brazil in Virginia. And I only found out the Americans involvement after 12 years. I mean, I kind of heard that maybe that was the case. But I got really good proof when I was over there the second to the last time. And so I'm like, oh, my God. The Americans flew in. We had a photo. We had a photograph of the plane at the base. We heard that it came in to a place called. So we had like testimony about the sighting of the creature. We had the military brigade around the area where the number of people had seen this live creature. Then we had the capture, which is a couple blocks away, like an hour and a half later. Then we had the transport to a specific location. It was a hospital called Regional Hospital. Now we have testimony from there. Then we have the military officer that took it from the hospital to a place called Eza, which is a military base. And then from Eza to this place called Campinas. And then from Campinas, it went back to the United States. And so we have, we have, we have testimony from all of that now. But I didn't. I don't. I'm still trying to get. All right, so once that plane, Once that USAF plane left a place called Campinas, Brazil, and went back to the United States, the case kind of goes cold. Right. So now we're looking for that end. So if we can have some individuals coming forward, if anybody out there listening that was involved in that case, please get ahold of me. So, yeah, but that's when I started to really go, oh, these guys are the Americans have somehow some uncanny ability of communication around the world. And I found out from a gentleman that it was special Access program and that Delta Force was involved. That's what I heard that just a couple of days ago. I don't know that to be a fact, but that's what it was told to me by someone who seemed like they'd be in a position to know.

[Interviewer]

Because there's been crashes everywhere. Like, I know you investigated Australia too, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah, that was a landing. But men in black, men in dark suits showed up on that case as well. It's funny actually, because it was Westall Primary School, 1966 and it was investigated by a number of Australian researchers, James Rigney and I think Ryan something. But in any case, very compelling case. In fact, when I first heard about that case, it took place at a school, primary school in Westall and there were three hundred and sixty five children and teachers watching this thing in broad daylight around 10am at recess. And when I arrived, Shane Ryan, that's the research I wanted to throw a shout out to. When I arrived in Australia. I remember a number of researchers like, you know, some of the better witnesses, like the science teacher and a gentleman that shot a picture, took a picture of it that we've been trying for 50 years. And I remember saying, well, just get me in the room with these folks and let me see. And so we ended up getting interviews with two major witnesses. One of them was a science professor by the name of Mr. Greenwood. And Mr. Greenwood revealed to us for the first time ever on camera, I had to film him from behind. Subsequently, he went on camera with his face. A few months later, then he died. Wow. But he said, yeah, he's like, I was a science teacher because I had all these students saying, I was standing there holding his hand, scared. Mr. Greenwood, why hasn't he come forward to defend us? Like there was over 300 of us outside watching this thing and then it landed and we ran up to a number of the students, ran up to it. I interviewed a lot of them in my film the Phenomenon. And he said like a day or two later after the incident, I don't know if it was that night or the next day that he got a visit and they were like, you're going to shut the fuck up. Like, seriously, oh my God, it's really like he was scared 50 years later. And they were like, we're going to do this to you and we're going to do that to you. And they had One guy in uniform and two guys in suits. And they weren't messing around, man. But he revealed that in his twilight years and he just, he died, I don't know, a year or two later.

[Interviewer]

We're timing, huh?

[James Fox]

Well, I don't know. I don't think it was anything nefarious. I think he just got old and died. Yeah, it's part of one of the reasons why, you know. But, yeah, and then there was a gentleman who took a photograph of it in the area two days prior. A lot of times when you have a mass sighting, there's objects in and around the area for could be weeks, could be days, could be months before it chose this place to land. Same thing with rue of Zimbabwe, 1994. There were a lot of adults that saw the UFO in and around the area and then it landed at a School in 1994. So this gentleman took a photograph of what all the children described, a disc, a UFO in broad daylight. And I got him on camera for the first time in history and he too died. His name is James Gibble, but he took a fantastic photograph of a UFO just a few kilometers away. Interesting.

[Interviewer]

Has the frequency of the landings gone down now that everyone has cameras and it's so easy to take photos? Do you think there, there's less of that happening these days?

[James Fox]

You know, I, I just met with a gentleman a couple of days ago. I went to a conference in Palm Springs called Contact in the Desert. It's like I met this gentleman, sorry, I have to think for his name in a second, but he experienced a landing, allegedly with multiple witnesses, and it happened in 2007. And he was said to me in passing when I was, when I was hanging out with him, that the intelligence folks that he has met with said that it was the last well documented, like, compelling landing case in the States. Now, I don't know that to be true, but that's what he said to me. So I don't know, I'm trying to think of as you're saying this. I could tell you lots of very compelling sightings. But landings, the last alleged case that I know about because, oh, seven, that's.

[Interviewer]

When the iPhone came out, I believe around then.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, for the ipod, maybe. I don't remember.

[James Fox]

But the thing is, people always go, oh, where are the photographs? You know, I get it. But the most compelling data is the sensory systems that the military has. And there was a congressional hearing that happened, I think it was December of last year. I attended it, it was great. And there was a gentleman named Michael Shellenberger. And he was a reporter and he met with an intel guy and had a congressional hearing about it and made a publication about it. And the program is called Immaculate Constellation. And it's basically an intel person coming forward saying that that's the program name of where all the extremely high resolution 4K sensory data lies. Stuff from the satellites, Satellites, ships, drones, all that stuff that it's like the most compelling body of, of high resolution imagery of UAP that exists in the world because they're the ones with all the sensors. Now some of the stuff leaks because people go, you know, oh yeah, I've seen the Tic Tac and I've seen this and, and yeah, that. And they're like, oh, you know, the government suddenly had some sort of epiphany and decided to, you know, to be more transparent on the UFO phenomenon. I'm like, yeah, no, that's not what happened. There was a couple of intelligence officer of the Pentagon that snuck some of that data out, found a loophole and risked their freedom and walked it onto the front page of the New York Times. That's what happened. And that's why we're having the conversation today. And they all say this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the evidence that we have. Wow. That we're not releasing.

[Interviewer]

That's. That's crazy. I wonder if that will ever get released one day.

[James Fox]

Yeah, well, they're working on it right now.

[Interviewer]

There's tons of people that claim they've been abducted. I'm sure you've interviewed some of these people. Do you believe any of those stories?

[James Fox]

So. Good question. And, and this is the same, this sort of applies the same way as I feel about the UFO phenomenon in general. I've never reported. Excuse me, I've never reported on this abduct. So it's so called abduction cases. Now there's a handful of cases that I am extremely intrigued. One of them was Travis Walton. There's a movie made about it called Fire in the Sky. I've met with Travis, I've gone to the location. I featured him in a number of programs I did. One of which I think was National Geographic, silly National Geographic series that I did. It was, I'm not very proud of it, but whatever. But, but we did look into that case extensively. I became pretty good friends with him. And it happened, I think, in 1975. Travis Walton and your audience can look it up. Now. Why I find this case particularly compelling is because there were seven witnesses. Wow. And it was all lumberjacks up in the. Up in trying to think of the name of the white mountain. I'll think of it. Anyway. Snowflake, Arizona. I think it was 1975. Your audience can look it up. And they were. Had a contract with the government clearing some sort of like, you know, potentially hazardous fire trees. They do the. Clean the brush and. Yeah, and they had this contract and they were like working late that night, I don't know how late, I guess, till the sun kind of went down. And then they all packed up and it was a very remote area. And they jumped in their truck. And it was a four door truck that seated, I guess seven people. They were in the truck and they looked at what seemed like a really bright light. They thought it was maybe a fire. And so they drove towards it on these dirt roads in the mountains. And they realized like, holy shit, there's a disc hovering at treetop level. Like right there, right there. They could hit with a rock. And they stop the truck and they're all just with their mouths dropped like, what the hell is this? And Travis Walton decides to get a closer look and jumps out the truck. And he does it against the will of everybody else in the truck. And he's running towards this thing thinking it's about to take off. I'm gonna miss it. So I wanna get as close as I can. And he's getting closer and closer and closer to it. And he can hear a slight sound, like a humming, buzzing. Like it's winding up. Yeah, you know, kind of like it's getting ready to do something. And he suddenly gets a little scared and he kind of crouches down behind a log and all the people in the truck are screaming at him to get back. And he's crouching behind this log and then he's like, you know what? I better get out of here. So he jumps up as this thing is spooling up or whatever it's doing, and he gets hit by some sort of force field. And he gets thrown like a raggedy and all. And they look down and they think they're next. So they just step on the gas pedal and they left his ass and get a couple miles down the road. And the driver's like, we gotta go get Travis. We can't leave Travis. We gotta go get Travis. And the guys were like, don't. I'm not. I'm not going back there. Hell no. And he goes, well, then you stay here. Get out of the truck and stay here. They were like, I don't want to do that either. Because I'm scared. Rightfully so. So they turned the truck around all together. They go back. UFO gone. Travis gone. Whoa. So. So they go down into town. Well, they look for him for a couple hours first. Gone. He's just gone. And so they go down into town, they tell the authorities what happened. And they're like, you guys are all under arrest for homicide. Nobody believed him, obviously. They're like, we'll take lie detector tests, you know, so it makes world news. I mean, everybody's talking about. Because so many witnesses. And they're just sticking to their story, you know? And so they start this most intensive manhunt. They got dogs, helicopters, all the news is talking about it. And then five days later, Travis shows up at a phone booth on the outskirts of town.

[Interviewer]

No way.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And he's just so traumatized, he can barely talk. Wow. And to this day he's like, I went aboard the ship and I met the people and I da, da, da. And they made a movie about it called Fire in the Skies. A guy named Tracy Torme wrote the screenplay. And a very compelling case. There's Betty and Barney. Hill, New Hampshire, 1961. Very compelling case. And I've also met with some of the lead researchers, Bud Hopkins, John Mack from Harvard University, that have investigated so called alleged abduction cases. And one of the most compelling pieces of data that I've seen. And again, I don't report on these. I'm just. I mean, not really. This is not my area of expertise. Right. Yeah. And I'm just now delving into the crash retrieval stuff after all these years. This guy, Bud Hopkins, he passed, I think 10 years ago, and he was showing, he was all excited, and he was interviewing alleged witnesses, alleged abductees. Right. People that have had these experiences, they call them experiencers. And he asked them under hypnosis, draw what you see on the craft. So they're all drawing this symbol. And I was looking at. He's like, this guy's from Africa, this guy's from China, this guy's from. And they're all drawing relatively the same symbol, slightly different variation, but the same damn symbol on the craft. And that to me, was very compelling.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because they don't even know each other.

[James Fox]

None of them know each other. And he was very excited about this. Yeah. Wow.

[Interviewer]

If they could fly this fast, it's possible they could time travel. Right.

[James Fox]

So there's a guy named Jacques Vallee. He's the leading intellectual heavyweight probably within the scientific community on this phenomenon. And his theory is that they're not interplanetary, and nobody really knows. I really don't think anyone has the answers. I think there are some within the government, maybe 100 people worldwide, that maybe have a bigger picture, I'm told, because it's very compartmentalized. Like, even if you have people that are working on the hardware, they might not have any idea about the bodies or any potential communication. Who knows? So it's all sort of compartmentalized. But I'm told there's about roughly 100 people. But. But Jacques Vallee has been looking into this seriously forever. I mean, he makes me look like a newbie. And he's in his 80s now, and he's a physicist, very intelligent, and he's worked with some of the greatest. And a lot of his research has been done sort of discreetly. Panel of scientists called NIDs that was run by Bigelow, which is right here in Las Vegas. The intellectual heavyweights within the scientific community on this for a long time. And they got the contract for what turned out to be OS app. And then a tip that was on the front page of the New York Times. And he thinks that, and a lot of other scientists, too, that it's more, way more complex than just interplanetary visitation, that it could be, you know, there's some people say sort of an interdimensional aspect to it.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[James Fox]

You know, that it's not just a simple label of, hey, we're getting visitation from, you know, another star constellation or another planet or. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And it could be all the above, too. But honestly, anybody who tells you they know what's going on doesn't know what's going on, in my humble opinion, myself included.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, the interesting part is when you look at ancient texts, a lot of them mention aliens or UFOs or these hovercrafts or whatever.

[James Fox]

Jacques Vallee wrote a book called Ms. Is It Mysteries in the Sky. I'll think of it. Wonders in the Sky. And it's exactly that. It's a documentation with photographs of things dating back millennia. Right. Cave paintings, paintings, super old paintings that you just can't. It can't be anything else other than a sighting 500 years ago of a disc or entities. I remember I was investigating a case in Africa. It was very compelling case. I featured it in the program of a landing at a school in Rua, Zimbabwe. Aerial school. And the lead head professor or headmaster of the school, her name is Judy Bates, she was there at the school when it happened in 1994. And allegedly what happened was a bunch of discs landed at the school at morning break and there were a hundred people, say 66 now. There was 100 kids in the playground when it happened. All them got it. Some of them were closer, some were further away, but they all. A lot of them had face to face contact with these little entities that had the big eyes, the spindly arms, legs, and. I know it sounds crazy. And the kids were all drawing this. There was a Harvard psychiatrist by the name of Dr. John Mack, flew there just a few weeks, documented it all on camera. The children all saying primarily the same thing. And they drew what they saw, these little aliens and this. And when I was there, headmistress gave me photocopies of all these different drawings. The kids were drawing these little aliens that they saw. I'm going to call them aliens. I don't know what else to call them. But they were the quintessential, you know, the large heads and the army eyes and all that stuff. Three and a half. It's really funny. They're interviewing one kid, he's like 10, 10 or 11, and they go, well, how big was he? He goes, about my size.

[Interviewer]

They were small.

[James Fox]

Yeah, about three and a half, four feet tall. And anyway, so I got these. I got these drawings and I was. And they're amazing. You look at them, you can look them up online, you know, and. And I took them with me and I went, investigated a landing at another school. And that happened in 1966 at Westall Primary that we were talking about earlier. And. And I took these drawings there and I met with some researcher researchers, and I was showing them, like, look at this. This is the lightning that happened. And. But this is a little different. It was a close encounter of the third kind when witnesses report entities. And they were like, whoa, have you seen the Wanjina cave art? That's thousands of years old. They were like, holy shit. This looks like exactly like the cave art from the Wanjina. You know, the indigenous tribes talked about the Wanjina descending. And anyway, and I looked at that and I just couldn't believe the resemblance that there was documented on cave walls thousands of years ago. I don't know how many thousands of years ago. So, yes, to answer your question, this is nothing new, evidently, and it's been going on since the recording time.

[Interviewer]

What do you think the aliens are trying to accomplish when they do these landings in these areas? Like, do you think it's the same goal or do you think they have different missions?

[James Fox]

It's a good question. And I've speculated on that. That's all I can tell you is I've speculated on that because I don't think anyone really knows. But I have interviewed a number of military personnel from around the world that have intercepted or tried to intercept UFOs. And some of them have tried to shoot at them, some of them have successfully shot at them. I report on it in a film I did called I Know what I Saw. You could watch that for free online. And we take a very hostile position towards anything that could be seen as a threat. And I'll remind your audience, like anything that's in particularly controlled airspace, you don't identify yourself and you scrambled jets to intercept it and it's flying rings around our jets. Right. That's a national security issue.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[James Fox]

So generally we shoot first and ask questions later. So we have a very hostile approach. In fact, I interviewed this one pilot, his name is Parviz Jafari, from 1976, Tehran, Iran. He had a really compelling, I mean, it's a really good case. I featured that one in a film I did. It was a two hour special for a history channel. I know what I saw. And he, he said to me on camera, which was great. I actually reflected back on it years later and thought, wow, that was a really profound statement that I kind of missed. And he said, you know, one of my biggest regrets was that instead of trying to make peaceful contact with this thing that I was encountering in the sky in an F4 Phantom jet, I tried to shoot it down. And that turned out to be not such a good idea for him because his plane locked up and he almost died.

[Interviewer]

Dang.

[James Fox]

And so he was reflecting back on that moment in the 70s as a fighter pilot and he was like, and he was now a general, a retired general, Iranian general. And he said, why did I try to shoot it? It wasn't harming me, it wasn't threatening me in any way. But we took a very hostile approach at it. And I've also talked to other people from Peru, I think that shot at one. He said it absorbed its bullets. Big bullets. Yeah. And you know, if, if, let's just say again, let's suspend judgment. And if, if, if, if this whole phenomenon is, is happening as all these witnesses around the world are saying it's happening, and the military is taking a very hostile, hostile position towards these, these things. I don't know about you, but I'd probably land at a school with kids. And to make, if I, if my intention was to make contact, that's probably where I would do it. I mean, you know, you look into landing cases at schools, and they're prolific. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Cause they're not gonna wanna shoot when there's kids around.

[James Fox]

No. When kids are very, you know, kids aren't aggressive and hostile and armed, you know. Quite the contrary. Right. So I'm just saying that if I was the phenomenon, and I did want to establish some sort of contact, that's what I would do.

[Interviewer]

Very interesting, because they're not making the first attacks and a lot of people. Aliens, negatively.

[James Fox]

Oh.

[Interviewer]

Like they're the enemies.

[James Fox]

I. Look, you talk to any military guy, any pilot at all, you know, and they'll say, look, man, if that thing wanted to shoot me out of the sky, it would have been game over.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

That thing displayed a technology that just blew my mind. I mean, listen to David Fravor. The tic Tac Incident 2004 over off the coast of San Diego. That thing was flying rings. I mean, four. Two military jets with four people, four eyeballs, and radar, and they ended up getting it on flir. I mean, that's the. That's a really compelling case.

[Interviewer]

Was that the one the government released as or.

[James Fox]

No, that was the one that they stuck the tapes out of the Pentagon. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I wouldn't say government released. They weren't happy about that shit.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And Christopher Mellon, intelligence officer, he told me, he goes, yeah, I risked my ass to do that. He goes, granted, we found a loophole, but we. We bent the rules and we walked that out of the Pentagon and onto the front page of the New York Times. Wow.

[Interviewer]

It's almost like. It sounds like they want to help us, honestly, but we're trying to shoot down.

[James Fox]

Well, so this is interesting. That's a very good point. So I was. Sorry. I was like, probably seven years, six years into making the phenomenon insane. Right. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's a long time.

[James Fox]

I know, I know. And suddenly, you know, there's this New York Times story. I'm like, well, at the time, I was. At that particular time, I was probably five years in, maybe something like that. And it was 2017, and like, oh, holy shit. The former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid had a secret Pentagon UFO program. It's now being talked about on in the New York. Holy shit. So I had. I ceased. I was going to release the film, and all of a sudden I had this whole new development, and I. Thanks to George Knapp, who's a famous reporter here.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

He got me an interview with Senator Reid. So I said to Senator Reid, it was funny, actually, because he had like security and I mean it was very like, okay, we're going to meet at this time. I'm going to have 46 minutes. I made sure everything was ready. All you had to do is sit down, you know, boom, boom, boom, roll. And then I was like, shit, I forgot to get B roll. And I got amazing stuff on camera. But I was like, I forgot to get B roll. And he's like, okay, I got like 90 seconds, you know. So I'm walking with Reed and I thought, well, I might as well ask him a question while, you know. And it was a question that I, duh, should have asked him on camera. And I somehow just escaped me. I said, what was one of the more astonishing aspects of the phenomenon that you learned about in this program that you did for 10 years? I mean, the program was secret for 10 years.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, right.

[James Fox]

And without a moment's hesitation, he said, they're disabling our nuclear weapons. Wow. And I went, holy shit, this is coming from Senator Reid. And so I kind of like heard about specific cases in the past where I never quite put the dots together because I'm an idiot. But I was like, I pause in production, I need to go look into this. I ended up contacting a guy who was the lead researcher and I'd known him, he wrote books, UFOs and nukes. And I contacted him and he, I told him, I was like, hey, man, I just got confirmation from Senator Harry Reid on camera that there. And I again, I'd heard about some cases in the past, but this was a level of confirmation that the world has never seen. So I do an entire section with this gentleman's help. Sorry, his name escapes me right now. Probably didn't get enough sleep last night. But. So UFOs and nukes is his book. And he makes available to me a lot of the information of his lifelong study into that. And I did a 5 or 10 minute, probably a 10 minute segment specifically on UFOs and nukes with launch control officers firsthand testimony. Right?

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[James Fox]

In the film and like archival stuff and modern stuff. And it's incredible in incredible that these guys are launch remind you like the top level security clearances you need to be the launch control officer to nuclear weapons. Like this is like the most serious shit we out there. And he, one of them said to me, I'll never forget this. He's. And he's really calm and measured and you realize like why he was chosen for the job he had.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[James Fox]

Because that's the guy you want Right. Not going to freak out. Holy shit. There's UFOs. You know, you want a guy that's like. He goes, well, it's a pretty clear message to me, James. And I said, okay, what's that message? He goes, it's kind of like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. I thought, wow, that's, that's incredible. Wow.

[Interviewer]

So these aliens don't want nuclear war.

[James Fox]

Make. Make of it what you wish. But you know, he doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that is really interesting. Makes me wonder if it affects their dimension or something when a nuclear bomb goes off.

[James Fox]

Yeah, it does. It does make you wonder, doesn't it? Yeah, it does make you wonder because.

[Interviewer]

Maybe during the World War when that one went off, that's when they started coming right around then.

[James Fox]

You know, there's a guy named Jesse Michaels. He's got a podcast called American Alchemy. He was just on Joe Rogan a couple of days ago. He's a friend of mine, great guy, very smart guy. He's probably 30 and he just met. And excuse me if I get the name wrong, but his name is. And he passed right after the interview. Something. Malgrum. Mal Malm. Anyway, the episode is on American Alchemy. But he basically said just recently that there was a detonation, I think it was 1963. 62. 63. Detonation of an atomic bomb in subspace or space. And that the result of that detonation it caused a Tic Tac shaped UFO to crash that was recovered in the ocean. Whoa. Yeah. Mal Malgram. I'm so sorry to your audience that I can't remember the exact name of this gentleman. But look it up. It's American Alchemy, Jesse Michaels. You can watch the interview yourself and listen to this guy's testimony. And I had heard about it through other, like a former Senate majority, Senate Armed Service Committee gentlemen. I'll just give his first name, Kirk. And he told me about it, but then he got the amalgam, I think his name was. But anyway. Yeah. And that. Yeah. So if that's true. Absolutely. It's affecting the phenomenon. And absolutely they'd want to, you know, neutralize this stuff. I mean, there's talks of. There was a launch, I think it was Bob Jacobs, and it was 1970, 1964, Vandenberg Air Force Base. The launch of an Atlas rocket. And according to the gentleman who filmed it in an official capacity for the military, he said that there was a Atlas truck rocket traveling at several thousand miles an hour. And an object came into view. And it's all on film. According to him, he filmed it, two different camera angles, and the object flew around the dummy warhead and was shooting out of the sky. Which it did. Which it did. And that footage everyone's been talking about. Lou Elizondo, who ran the AATIP program, one of the people that ran the A TIP program. Jay Stratton was the real top dog at aatip. Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. It was all SAP before that, and I don't remember that acronym stands for similar. And Lou came forward and said that he'd seen it. And the gentleman that shot it is to this day adamantly, like, that's what I saw. We had it. And men in black came in. Men in suits came in and confiscated it.

[Interviewer]

That's nuts.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And there are so many stories about men. I could. You and I could go on till tomorrow morning, and your audience would, you know, be bored stiff. But I could go on till tomorrow morning about the stories I've heard about men in Black. I finally reported on them. I went all in on moment of contact.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You ever get whistleblowers that just stop talking to you, or do you ever face oppression? I guess.

[James Fox]

Well, so what I've learned over the years is that when somebody reaches out to you, when you reach out to somebody and they finally respond and they're interested in possibly coming forward, get them immediately. Don't even wait till the next day. There's an uncanny thing that takes place where I don't know if they get a phone call or they get cold feet or they get a visit, you're going to shut the fuck up. That happens. I know that happens because I've had it happen to me. Would show up to meet somebody, I'd drive 500 miles and show up. And it's like somebody's gotten cold feet. It's like he got a phone call as a reminder of their national security thing. Yeah. So that's absolutely real. And I've had people get cold feet, come forward legitimately, like, I really want to do this, and all of a sudden, you know, so I know it sounds crazy, man, but there's no doubt in my mind that there's an unknown government agency within the US Government that has the ability to monitor this activity globally. And they show up. And I could. If you want, I can give you a couple examples of high level. Yeah. Like, they show up, they try to get the evidence, they try to, in cases, intimidate the witnesses. The Better the case, the more likely is they're going to show up. And they show up pretty damn quickly. I'll give you a couple examples. I interviewed a general, a Belgian Air Force general, Wilfred Debra. And there was a very famous sighting over. Over. Over a year and maybe longer, that took place over Belgium. And they were a very large object. It was the size of a football field or larger, I think it was. Trying to remember the exact shape. You can look it up. Belgium, UFO wave, but at large size of a football field. And they were shooting beams of light down to the ground. They were hovering without making any sound whatsoever. And. And he said that the Air Force, the Belgian Air Force scrambled jets to intercept it. They had radar tapes of the radar of these events. And that two men from an unknown government US Agency showed up on camera. He told me all this on camera, showed up at his office, and they were like, we want recordings of those tapes. And he's kind of like thinking to himself, well, what agency are you guys from? And he said, okay, well, I'll give you copies, but I need an official inquiry. And they wouldn't do that. So I'll give you another case. The Tehran, Iran incident in the 70s with Parviz Jafari. He goes, yeah, the very next morning. And the incident took place in the middle of the night the very next morning. There were representatives from the US Government there. Wow. It's like, oh, my gosh. I'll give you another case. December 1980, Bentwaters. There was a landing at Bentwaters. It was a joint British military US Military base that had nuclear weapons. Kind of a secret that it did, but they did. They. It's out. It was 1980, and it took place over several nights, December 1980. I interviewed the Deputy Base Commander, Colonel Charles Halt, and he said that some. A plane flew in with some men from an unknown government US Agency, sanitized the evidence, talked to the witnesses, and I would say more, interrogated the witnesses, exposed them. Sodium pental. And just there were photographs taken of it by a guy named Jim Peniston and John Burroughs. And those photographs evidently never, you know, saw the light of day or didn't turn out, whatever, you know. So that happened. Phoenix Lights case. Men in Black. There was a gentleman that took a photograph of it. I interviewed former Councilwoman Frances barwood about that. March 13, 1997. I investigated that case on and off for 10 years. I got the governor to come forward, Fife Symington, for the first time in history on that case, that he too was a witness. And it was not a craft of Earth origin because of its size. He said it was about two miles across, wingtip to wingtip. And the governor of Arizona, while he was governor, saw it with his own eyes.

[Interviewer]

God.

[James Fox]

And they scrambled jets and picked it up on radar at Luke Air Force Base. Like, very compelling case. Men in Black in that case as well.

[Interviewer]

Two miles long. That's like the mothership in Star Wars.

[James Fox]

Yeah. So you had. And you had a bunch of people under the night sky try to get a glimpse of the Hale Bob comet at the time. So it was witnessed all across the state of Arizona. I mean, it was witnessed by thousands of people. I interviewed a couple, Stacy Rhodes and her daughter Emily. That said, I think they pulled their car over on Interstate 10 between Tucson and Phoenix. And they were like, if I held up a. A newspaper above my. Above my head, I couldn't have blocked this craft out. Wow. It was huge, gunmetal, black, massive, made no sound. And it also had the ability to hover really slowly, according to the witnesses. I interviewed lots of witnesses all across the state of Arizona for over 10 years, and I did. It's in. Out of the blue. It's in. I know what I saw anyway, when this thing took off, like, it would. It would change shape just a little bit, and then it would take off like warp speed and Star Trek. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy.

[James Fox]

According to the witnesses.

[Interviewer]

That's so nuts. What's the next investigation for you? I know you just released something yesterday, right?

[James Fox]

Well, yeah, so I did a film called the Program. And the Program basically encapsulates everything that's been happening in front of the scenes and behind the scenes since. The New York Times revealed the existence of a secret Pentagon UFO program. And there's been three congressional hearings since then. But there were a lot of meetings behind the scenes that were taking place with military witnesses, primarily military witnesses, fighter pilots, things of that nature. Intelligence officers. And then we had the first congressional hearings that took place. It was run by a guy named Representative Andre Carson. That was 2022. Then Tim Burchett of Tennessee along with Luna and others, had a congressional hearing in 2023. Open congressional hearing. The first one was an open congressional hearing. I remind your audience there haven't been an open. There haven't been a congressional hearings in 1966 on UFOs. Wow. So this is a big fucking deal. And then they had the 2023 with David Grush and David Fravor and Mr. Graves. Fighter pilot. Two fighter pilots and an intelligence officer. The Intelligence officer testified. Everybody testified under oath. Not just to the existence of the program, not to the. Just the existence of the UAV phenomenon, but that we have bodies and we have craft in our possession. And that was a bipartisan group of lawmakers that these guys testified to. Then we had another congressional hearing in 2024, which I attended. It was incredible. First time in my entire career. I waited 30 years for that. And where you had. Somebody was involved with the program. Lou Elizondo, who testified again under oath that we have a crash retrieval program, bodies and graft. And then you had the reporter who uncovered Immaculate, Immaculate Constellation. And that's the program that has all the high resolution data, sensory data, satellite imagery of the phenomenon.

[Interviewer]

We'll link that film below.

[James Fox]

Yeah, because people are always complaining, like, oh, why if they're real, why wouldn't there be more compelling data? I'm like, I'm screaming from the hilltops. All the intel folks are saying, it's hidden behind this wall. It's on these. And I talk about it in the program. So it's all behind the scenes. I feature the congressional hearings, interviews with people behind the scenes, interview with people that were involved, that were involved with the Legacy program, the crash retrieval stuff. It's. Yeah. So ask your audience. Go check out the program. Check out the phenomenon, the program, Moment of Contact. You can watch them all for free online. The program dropped yesterday on Amazon Prime. It was TVOD prior to that, which is transactional download where you pay for it. But now it's free on Amazon Prime.

[Interviewer]

Nice. We'll link it all below. Anything else you want to close off with here. James, thanks for coming on.

[James Fox]

Yeah. I would say one final thing is that. Don't believe me. Don't believe anything I just said. But imagine for a second if it's true. How big of a story would you consider that? Yeah, it would be the biggest story ever. So suspend judgment, check it out and draw your own conclusions.

[Interviewer]

I love it. Check out his films, guys. I'm gonna be watching them tonight. Thanks for coming on.

[James Fox]

Cool. Appreciate you having me. It.