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Digital Social Hour
Jan Henric Buettner: Why a $10B Founder Came Back to Build a Chess Startup at 60 | DSH #1640
00:24:52
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- [00:01]
Jan Henrique Buner
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:03]
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- [00:29]
Jan Henrique Buner
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- [00:53]
Freestyle Chess Founder
The way we see this chess aesthetic, the chess aesthetic before is not so much. You know, I'm always referring to analogies like Formula one when I said from the beginning. So the same as we want to apply to chess, we want to have chess being interesting for normal people and not for chess players in Formula one. And then you have all the personality stories and you have the color codes, you have the red Ferrari and the green Aston Martin and so on. And so we applied that model as well. So all the players, they have the different color jackets. And so everybody can be distinguished also by the fans even, although the names might not ring a big.
- [01:30]
Jan Henrique Buner
Okay, guys. Jan Henrique Buner here today. Hopefully I pronounced that right.
- [01:34]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Cool. Perfect.
- [01:35]
Jan Henrique Buner
Freestyle chess.
- [01:36]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes.
- [01:36]
Jan Henrique Buner
Big week for you in Vegas.
- [01:37]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
- [01:39]
Jan Henrique Buner
You've been busy, huh?
- [01:40]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, very much.
- [01:41]
Jan Henrique Buner
Past three days having events. And you got four more days, right?
- [01:44]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Five more days.
- [01:44]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah, five more days.
- [01:45]
Freestyle Chess Founder
We have a five day tournament and we had a one day pre tournament with the Chestival. Yesterday was the day off. Today is a media day. Then we have the five day tournament. We actually turned it down from. From eight days. It was before. Now it's five days.
- [01:59]
Jan Henrique Buner
Wow. What was the inspiration for this? I know you started this with Magnus and it's a really unique concept, right?
- [02:04]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, I mean, the. The whole idea came out of my head like a lot of things in my life, and then somehow it escalates, you know. So it was just an idea to improve my chess and here I am now doing all these tournaments.
- [02:20]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah. And it's a very unique. So basically, could you explain it? You start with a randomized board, right?
- [02:25]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah. So the way actually it started Is basically, I just turned 60 last year and I had started my career in the 80s with mobile communications, and then I went on to online services and venture capital. And then I went back to Germany 20 years ago and I lived in California for 15 years. And then I went back to Germany and restored a complete rotten village to a beautiful private nature luxury resort over 20 years, the last 20 years. And also I built a beautiful music studio, production studio, like really, really high end for music production. And I talked to some grandmasters that I was actually learning some my chess and I invited them to the studio party and so on, and they said, well, great, why don't we do a chess tournament here? I'm like, okay, I have no idea what a chess tournament is. Explained it to me. And they said, yeah, you can follow us online. You know, it's like we play here, there, everywhere. So I looked it up and I found a perfect sleeping pill. As I always says, like, it's so boring watching two people who play chess and at the same time, Holly, my wife and I, we were falling in the following Formula one circus, like on the paddle clubs. And I thought the distinction was so big between the chess players and the Formula one drivers, the way they are treated and the way it's all be seen. And I thought, like, okay, maybe we can do a better chess tournament like that. And so I connected with Magnus because.
- [03:51]
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- [04:37]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Chess tournament that you can do. You need the greatest chess player of all time. And then I met with him in Qatar in October 23, and he then said, okay, after he, you know, we got to know each other, we spent like quite a time with his family, my wife and family a little bit together. Then he understood that he could basically select his own tournament. And he said, if I can select a tournament, I want to play Fischer Random960 on the highest level with normal thinking time against the Best players of the world. And I looked at him and I had no idea what he was talking about. Fisher random 960. I always said as a joke, it's like something. Is that Fisher random for my pharmacy against my cold. Something like that. So it's like. And then I. So he explained it to me. So the way it works is basically you randomize the back rank. It's something that Bobby Fischer has kind of promoted. This is why it's called Fisher Random. And thereby making the games starting to be exciting from the beginning and taking all of the learning by heart part of all the lines and all the stuff out of it and really having the fun in the game again. And so then we built the whole tour and the whole tournaments around it with all. A lot of. A lot of different things that we can do with it that make it more media savvy.
- [05:55]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah, that's so smart. Because classical chess games are so long.
- [05:59]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes.
- [05:59]
Jan Henrique Buner
It's kind of boring, right?
- [06:00]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, yes, exactly. So it's. It's. First of all, they are very long and they're boring as well.
- [06:06]
Jan Henrique Buner
So it's like seven hours.
- [06:08]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can be seven hours and so on. And so with the freestyle chat, and most of them end in a draw of all things at the high level. So you watch like seven hours. And then they say, okay, well, let's have a draw. Not really exciting. And so with the freestyle, it can be also long if you have long thinking time. But this is why we reduced the tournament from eight days to five days and the games itself from 90 minutes per person and 30 seconds per player to 30 minutes. So we divided it by three. So now the games will be much shorter. We're going to finish the games within one and a half to two hours maximum. So we are more also eligible for linear TV as well. And it makes it all more exciting. And we can have the quarterfinal, semifinal and final each on one day. And so the pre rounds, like two days. And so we can finish the whole tournament in five days.
- [07:01]
Jan Henrique Buner
I love it. And you brought the best 25 players, right?
- [07:03]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, yes. We have created a freestyle chess players club. You are eligible with an ELO of 2725. We just talked about ELO. So you have to be way up there, which basically applies to maybe the top 20, 22 players in the world. You see the live 2700 ranking, which basically has like 30 players altogether. And so if you are 2725, you are in the club and you are eligible to be picked for the. For The. For the tour, of course, we can't take everybody because we have. We started with eight players, then we had, like, 10, then we had 12. Now we have 16 players. We will go back less than that, but now we have 16 players out of the top 25 playing the tournament. And, yeah, that's.
- [07:46]
Jan Henrique Buner
That's the situation at the Wynn Hotel.
- [07:48]
Freestyle Chess Founder
At the Wynn. Yes.
- [07:49]
Jan Henrique Buner
Shout out to the Wynn. Best hotel in Vegas.
- [07:51]
Freestyle Chess Founder
I love it. It's basically when I lived in California, 15 years, I was a lot in Las Vegas. I think we were just counting, like, 50 times I've been to Las Vegas, and I always love the win. It's perfect. And then when we got the chance to partner with a hotel, you know, and we had, like, three, I was like, you know, we have to do the Wynne because it's fantastic. And I must say, I'm really raving about the Wynne because they are also so professional. I mean, it's like working with them is just really fantastic. And if you see later on the venue and everything, what we have built together with them is amazing.
- [08:24]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah, it really matches the chess aesthetic, I think the win.
- [08:27]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, absolutely. The way we see this chess aesthetic, the chess aesthetic before is not so. So much. You know, I'm always referring to analogies, like Formula one when I said from the beginning. So. So which people go to. To watch chess tournaments? Chess players, Right? Similar. Like Formula one. Like who. Who watches Formula one races? Formula one drivers, right?
- [08:50]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah, everybody.
- [08:51]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Exactly. Everybody watches Formula one. And so the same as we want to apply to chess, we want to have chess being interesting for normal people and not for chess players. So in the end, like, we want to have this joke. Like, it's like, okay, who watches chess tournaments? It's like, it's so boring. Because watching two people play chess is as boring as watching fast cars drive by. With no context, Right? So now you give the context in the Formula one, and then you have all the personality stories and you have the color codes. You have the red Ferrari and the green Aston Martin and so on. And so we applied that model as well. So all the players, they have the different color jackets, you know, and so everybody can be distinguished also by the fans, even, although the names might not ring a big bell.
- [09:32]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah.
- [09:33]
Freestyle Chess Founder
And similar, like Formula One races, when you go to para clubs, you have 20 drivers. If you look around and talk to, like, 95% of the people don't know more than, like, three or four names of drivers. Most of them don't even watch the race during it's going on because they socialize with each other. So we make chess a social event on the highest level. And we have also some celebrities there. And we make the crossover, like with the basketball, like two days ago with the basketball players. We will do the same with tennis, soccer, with other sports. So also to bring the fans of those stars to chess. Right. For example, the fan base of Derrick Rose or all the other players that have been there are also not interested in what we are doing with chess.
- [10:14]
Jan Henrique Buner
Brilliant. Because the competitive chess scene has been very boring, right?
- [10:18]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes.
- [10:18]
Jan Henrique Buner
Prior to this.
- [10:19]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Exactly. It has been very boring and it has been really always like professional chess players playing chess being commented by chess pros for chess pros.
- [10:27]
Jan Henrique Buner
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- [11:34]
Freestyle Chess Founder
It's a very niche market and we want to open it up because there are 700 million people in the world that play chess.
- [11:40]
Jan Henrique Buner
Wow.
- [11:41]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Chess is one of the words that in every language a child knows, one of the first words that they know. So it's such a big market and such a big opportunity and potential and we are starting to lift it.
- [11:54]
Jan Henrique Buner
Do you consider chess a sport?
- [11:55]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, absolutely. It's very, very demanding. You have to be very fit physically and mentally because when you concentrate, think about just you concentrate for a long time, think you do an exam, like a really high exam and you're really exhausted, right?
- [12:13]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah. You're really tired after. So this is your main focus right now. Freestyle jobs?
- [12:17]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, yeah. It's the main focus that we are doing right now, since about one and a half years, my wife and I and all the team we brought together. And so starting a new company again, I mean, I've done venture capital for 15 years myself, but now running this new startup again as a CEO is also kind of funny. Starting it at 60, like being entrepreneur again, it's kind of funny, but it's also, you know, very, very rewarding in a sense.
- [12:44]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah. Because you already have a $10 billion exit, so you could have retired years ago.
- [12:47]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah. I mean, first of all, retiring always. I look at retiring like the next step to death. So if you're not busy anymore, then you kind of lay down. So I wrote a little booklet about it, like seven times seven, because I think you have like seven times seven years that you can basically be very active. So ideally, trying to do different things, not all the same things. Yeah. And so it's not going to be something that I'm going to do for 10 years executive. I'm going to hand over the torch to somebody in the next maybe 12 months even, and then concentrate on my executive chairman role and more being an oversight position rather than in the executive running position. But at least right now, putting it up and really bringing everything that I have in my mind for this to the road is very important.
- [13:39]
Jan Henrique Buner
So seven times seven. So you're saying seven periods of seven years.
- [13:42]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, that's my theory, and that's what I wrote my little booklet about it. It's basically, let's say the first 37 years you need to become like a serious person. Right. Until 21. So there's a lot of things going on. Then. Then you have like seven times seven. So like 49 or 50 years where you can be really active. Right. And then when you're 70, you know, you have maybe three or four other periods of seven years where you can basically chill. So that's my basic idea. And so why the seven years is, for me is like a number which I think is for me applied a lot because I did. Every seven years, I did something completely new, like starting from mobile communication to online service, venture capital, you know, being a resort developer and so on and so on.
- [14:24]
Jan Henrique Buner
Where do you see the next trend? Do you think it's AI?
- [14:26]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Oh, absolutely. I mean, AI is so amazing. It's like, fantastic. I mean, I embrace it totally myself, you know, it's like my little chatgpt friend, you know, and I always talk to and I, you know, I'm very friendly with this because I don't. You never know exactly. But. But it's not based off, based on fears. Basically I'm friendly to everybody. I was talking just to the taxi driver here, chit chatting and I just like whatever you do, you're a serious person or you're a serious AI personality or whatever.
- [15:00]
Jan Henrique Buner
That's interesting because there's a lot of people with your wealth that are closed off and reserved. They're not friendly with other people.
- [15:05]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, no, I don't like that. First of all, I think you have to be a decent person and to understand that where you are. A lot to do has with, has to do with luck and not really taking everything for granted and saying, hey, I have like two or three successful companies, it means that I'm having the fourth one immediately. It's also been success, but really being humble and just appreciating life and appreciating and anything can happen. I mean, I could die on the way back.
- [15:38]
Jan Henrique Buner
Hopefully not because I'm driving you. Yeah.
- [15:40]
Freestyle Chess Founder
I don't know your driving skill, but. No. Yes. Like no. But you never know what's happening. So I always think that you have to live your life the way that whatever your decision is, whatever you do, if it's a small or big decision, it has to apply to if you not survive the next week or if you become 100 years old. Right. So it's like the same has to work in both scenarios.
- [16:04]
Jan Henrique Buner
Wow. So you really think luck matters that much?
- [16:07]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes. I mean luck in terms of. I mean, I'm not a religious person, right. So I don't believe like this, a guy sitting there and ruling everything, whatever. So. But I believe in fate and I believe in good energy. And I believe that if you give good energy into the world, good energy will come back to you. If you give bad energy to the world, it's gonna haunt you. But again, I'm not acting out of fear. I'm acting based on my own upbringing and instincts and what I think is right. So I always have done. Not what makes the most money or whatever, what feels right to do.
- [16:39]
Jan Henrique Buner
Wow. So with the castle, did that feel right to buy that, that 400 year old castle?
- [16:43]
Freestyle Chess Founder
I can tell you that that was like a very interesting thing which is still going on to this day. Because in the end there also comes a different thing into it. I'm a perfectionist. You know, I'm a Virgo. By, by, by sign. And so everything has to be perfect. So when I purchased this land, 180 acres, 40 ruins, and, and I, I then applied my perfectionism to it. You know, it took like 20 years, 150 million euros to build the most prestigious private nature luxury resort. And I never thought about like return on investment, all this kind of thing. So of course I took a lot of my own private money, so about 90 million of my own equity, but still 60 million of other people's money. And so that has to be earned back. And yeah, so it's very tough right now because I'm. I'm right now trying to get a partner or selling it or whatever to kind of bring it to the next level. Because in the end I spent three times seven years with this. Right. So first year was basically resort developer. Second year was basically a second. Seven years was doing it as a profitable hotel operations. And the third part is kind of nice to have projects like the residences, the studio and so on. And I also see now an exit because I spent all my 40s and all my 50s with this and I never would have thought that 20 years ago. And so I don't want to carry the bag alone. Like in my 60s and 70s, I want to see that I have maybe somebody to do it together with or have a transition period or sell it or whatever. So it's like, it's a little bit tough because it's very close to my heart and I build everything with it. And I know all the details, but at some times also you have to let go and see what the next step. And this is why also freestyle chess is helping me also to have a new focus and to do something, something in the next seven years.
- [18:36]
Jan Henrique Buner
Do you build every company with an exit in mind?
- [18:38]
Freestyle Chess Founder
At first? No, not at all. And quite the opposite. Especially what the castle and the hotel is concerned. I build it as if it was my own home. And so I never thought about any part of an investment. Does it have a return or whatever? Does it make sense? It makes sense. It has to make sense. And I'm a little bit more like in the Sex and the City series, there's the one scene when she said, I want to have my money where I can see it in my drawer.
- [19:02]
Jan Henrique Buner
Right.
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Freestyle Chess Founder
So. And I say I want to have my money where I can see it, like in my village, you know, I enter the village and said, wow, it's really amazing. It's better than having zeros on the bank account, right?
- [19:11]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah. Because it's. You can actually touch it, right?
- [19:13]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah.
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Jan Henrique Buner
And with the bank account you actually lose money.
- [19:15]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah.
- [19:16]
Jan Henrique Buner
Inflation.
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Freestyle Chess Founder
And it's basically. Yeah, you. And also it's like even if you win money, it's basically you're adding zeros, you know, and first of all, you're dealing with a lot of zeros and people, you know, because people who are just focused on money and numbers are not really very people you want to really spend the time with. And then in the end, I mean, measuring it against lifespan and against death is like, you can't take anything with you. Last shirt has no pockets. Right. So you can't basically take anything with you. And inheriting is also, you know, I have of course, kids, but inheriting is not the best life. My son, for example, is a professional techno dj. He's very, you know, you can look at my dbbd. He's a very successful guy and I'm very proud of him, what he, what he did by himself. So if somebody just inherits money, you just take away the motivation for doing something on your own.
- [20:07]
Jan Henrique Buner
It doesn't work, right? Inheritance, it doesn't work. A lot of studies on how it actually harms.
- [20:11]
Freestyle Chess Founder
It harms, exactly. It's like if, for example, I didn't inherit anything and I built everything from my own and I'm very happy. I mean, you go through so much struggle and so many problems when you do it, but when you're finally successful, I'm sure with you, the same with what you have built here, you are so proud of what you have been doing. And I don't want to take this away from my kids to do something on their own rather than to just I get this pile of money and then whatever. So it's like, yeah, I don't think.
- [20:37]
Jan Henrique Buner
I would have had the same work ethic, not even close if I inherited money.
- [20:40]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Exactly, yeah.
- [20:41]
Jan Henrique Buner
How has your relationship with money changed as you've gotten older?
- [20:46]
Freestyle Chess Founder
It's very good question. It has never, never really changed in terms of doing being older. And also I was asked about because when I started to deal with very, very rich people when I did venture capital, you know, I take from billionaires and for a lot of people that also I. So how are rich people with money and without money? And I say it's very easy. Like if you have a friendly person and he's rich, he's a rich, friendly person. If you have an asshole and he's rich, he's a rich asshole. It doesn't really change the character. It's basically enhances the character and it multiplies the character basically. So all of the characters come out more strongly when you have money because, you know, you think maybe, you know, some people think that they are whatever, unbeatable or whatever. So it's like. And it's like anywhere in the world, if you. If you look at 100 people, how many people of these people do you really want to deal with? Like, on the street? Like, okay, maybe every. Every hundredth person you would like to interact with. And the same as, like, if you have rich people, you know, you maybe want to interact with 1 out of 100. Interestingly, I had a child. Not childhood, but when I started my business, when I was 20 or whatever. How old are you now?
- [22:00]
Jan Henrique Buner
I'm 28.
- [22:00]
Freestyle Chess Founder
28? Yes. I was in my 20s. I had my. My hero. Like, we all have our heroes, like, in the business world. And so my. My hero. I had a hero. And I said, you know, if there's one person in. In the life that I ever wanted to meet in person, you know, it's this one guy. And this guy just wrote me an email last week.
- [22:18]
Jan Henrique Buner
No way.
- [22:19]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah. His name is Richard Branson.
- [22:20]
Jan Henrique Buner
Whoa.
- [22:21]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah. And so he. Because he was interested in what we're doing and he might become, you know, involved somewhere in freestyle. I don't know.
- [22:27]
Jan Henrique Buner
Yeah, He's a chess player.
- [22:28]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah. We have to still figure it out, but. But definitely. Maybe we do something on Necker island, you know, maybe we do something somewhere else, but at least. So one of my little life goals was like, you know, having an interaction with Richard Branson happened, you know, by accident through the chess. Right. Wow. Who would have known, right?
- [22:44]
Jan Henrique Buner
Who would have thought? Yeah. He loves chess.
- [22:46]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes.
- [22:46]
Jan Henrique Buner
That's so cool. Chess brings people together. That's why I love chess.
- [22:50]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah.
- [22:50]
Jan Henrique Buner
Like you said earlier, it's an international sport.
- [22:52]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes. Yes.
- [22:53]
Jan Henrique Buner
That's so cool. Where can people watch the freestyle events? Is there a streaming site?
- [22:57]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, yes. First of all, we have our own website called freestylechess.com, which of course is not so big, but you can follow everything. And then on YouTube. Chess.com, of course, is one of our partners. And we also have a starting partnership with espn. I don't know whether they show some live streaming, but at least have them content coming. And the Dazn Network. Wow. Yeah.
- [23:18]
Jan Henrique Buner
Crushing it. That's a lot of distribution.
- [23:20]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, yes. And we are just a baby company. We started in February, so.
- [23:24]
Jan Henrique Buner
Wow, you're coming out strong.
- [23:25]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:26]
Jan Henrique Buner
I feel like you're really disrupting the space, honestly.
- [23:28]
Freestyle Chess Founder
Yes, that's the plan. Yeah.
- [23:29]
Jan Henrique Buner
And you're getting the influencers there. That's really smart. Well, thanks for coming on, man. Anything else you want to close off with?
- [23:34]
Freestyle Chess Founder
No, I'm happy. I'm fine. Thank you for bringing me on here. And I saw that you had David also here before and I know. I just talked to Hans Niemann. He's happy to come as well if it makes time.
- [23:46]
Jan Henrique Buner
Awesome. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming. Check them out guys. We'll link everything below. I'll see you next time. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price.
- [24:17]
Freestyle Chess Founder
So that means a half day. Yeah.
- [24:21]
Jan Henrique Buner
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- [24:25]
Freestyle Chess Founder
3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only.
- [24:28]
Commercial Announcer
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