Jeff Staple: Why Clout Culture Is a Dead End | DSH #1715

Summary

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Digital Social Hour: Jeff Staple – Why Clout Culture Is a Dead End

Episode DSH #1715 | December 28, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jeff Staple (designer, entrepreneur, founder of Staple Pigeon)

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this candid episode, host Sean Kelly sits down with legendary streetwear designer and entrepreneur Jeff Staple at ComplexCon. The conversation dives into the evolution of collaboration in fashion, Jeff's perspective on clout culture and authenticity, the growing role of AI, the future of digital and physical fashion, and why brick-and-mortar experiences are due for a comeback. Staple offers unfiltered insight into how creators, brands, and consumers can navigate a rapidly digitizing world—while keeping real passion at the center.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authenticity vs. Clout Culture

• Jeff warns about chasing "relevancy" and clout over true passion. He emphasizes building from personal interests rather than just following trends.

  • “I think when you start asking yourself that, you're in trouble, you should just be like, yo, what am I into? And let me figure out a way to take my interest and turn it into something that everybody's gonna like.” – Jeff Staple (00:00; 11:38)

• Observes how social media now nudges users toward trending audio or content, making people question if they should cater to algorithms over authenticity.

  • “How about just use music that you like? It's so weird to have somebody be like, use these songs...because they're trending.” – Jeff Staple (12:00)

• On the double-edged sword of creating an iconic product (like the Nike SB Pigeon Dunk):

  • “It's a blessing to have a shoe that's on the Mount Rushmore of sneaker culture...it is also a gift and a curse though, because...everything else...will be compared to that.” (09:56)

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2. The Realities & Evolution of Collaboration

• Collaborations are organic, often take 18-24 months because of mutual schedules, product development, and logistics.

  • “The goal is actually how do you minimize them and be more selective...Because we have like damn near 15 to 30 different collabs a year.” (01:29)

  • On timing and authenticity:
    “The more forced and timed they are, inevitably they're a little bit less authentic...collaboration should be organic.” (02:50)

• Success in product launches is relative—a sell-out with no resale can be just as noteworthy as a hyped release.

  • "Sometimes I'll do a collab, it sells out. But there's none on resale, which...means that everyone who bought it is wearing it." (03:38)

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3. AI in the Creative Process

• Jeff discusses using AI for research and administration, but not (yet) for art. He’s even developed his own "Jeff Staple AI" for advice and inspiration.

  • “I've created a monster now...it's too fucking good. Like, it knows dude. It knows, like, my dog's name, my wife's name. Like, it knows everything.” (04:57)

• Recognizes AI's objectivity as an antidote to the artist’s insecurity:

  • “It's got no ego...my ego comes into play, but also my imposter syndrome...AI doesn't have those feelings, so it just spits out the most logically good idea.” (05:36)

• Predicts AI and augmented/virtual reality will fundamentally change culture and fashion.

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4. Digital Collectibles & the Future of Fashion

• Foresees digital fashion enabled by AR wearables due to environmental concerns and technological advancement.

  • “I could see a future...where everyone's just wearing a white T-shirt and, like, khakis, but everyone's looking at you through these optics, you know, these AR optics...” (14:56)

  • “Your wardrobe, you have no closet. You just have white tees...But when you go, it's literally like the NFT world, but in real life...” (15:31)

• On the environmental toll of clothing:
  “Clothing and shoes are the top two, like, killers...they're the top [contributors to landfill].” (16:11)

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5. The Enduring Value of In-Person Experiences

• Despite digital trends, Staple is bullish on physical retail. He announces new flagship stores in NYC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and LA.

  • “Brick and mortar retail stores. Going back to stores. Old school store.” (17:12)

  • On why real-world contact will become luxury:
    “How do I validate this is real? You go to a fucking store and you shake someone's hand...the new luxury would be that I met a real friend at a real place. Because everything else will just be AR, VR, AI.” (17:44)

• The increased value of genuine, face-to-face connection as digital content becomes less trustworthy and more synthetic.

  • “When I do an event now, kids afterwards are, like, almost in tears because of the ethereal experience...like, dude, this event was...I met two people. Like, they're my homies...” (19:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative longevity:
  “It's not that I wake up and I'm like, how do I stay relevant? Like, I think when you start asking yourself that, you're in trouble.” – Jeff Staple (11:38)

• On the message vs. the medium:
  “If you have a strong message, the medium...is the speaker...two years from now, it won't be Instagram...but as long as you have a strong message, whatever speaker you plug into, your message will be heard.” (13:19)

• On the anxiety of creative work:
  "Fear is a big factor. And artists, fear and insecurities...deep down, they're, like, scared that nobody will like their shit. That's the bane of every artist.” (06:11)

• On brick-and-mortar's new relevance:
  “The new luxury would be that I met a real friend at a real place. Because everything else will just be AR, VR, AI...everything will just be digitized.” (17:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• On passion vs. relevancy: 00:00, 11:38, 12:00
• Collaboration strategies & launches: 01:29, 02:50, 03:38
• AI in creative process: 04:25, 04:57, 05:36, 06:03
• Digital fashion and AR future: 14:41, 15:31
• Retail comeback & in-person connection: 17:12, 17:44, 19:04

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in balancing innovation with authenticity, as Jeff Staple critiques the perils of chasing clout culture and algorithmic validation while encouraging creators to stay rooted in real interests and human connection. His predictions about digital fashion, the resurgence of physical stores, and the transformative power of AI are both bold and pragmatic, offering a toolkit for navigating a rapidly evolving creative economy.

Find Jeff Staple:

• Instagram: @jeffstaple
• Brand: @staplepigeon

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Transcript

[Jeff Staple]

I think when you start asking yourself that, you're in trouble, you should just be like, yo, what am I into? And let me figure out a way to take my interest and turn it into something that everybody's gonna like. Similar to F1. You know, I've been into F1 for like, five, seven years now, and now it's becoming a thing. But I've been able to pivot my work and my passion into this thing that we're about to launch.

[Interviewer]

Now, I like that way of thinking because a lot of my generation, millennials.

[Podcast Host]

Gen Z, thought about relevancy.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Views, clout, or whatever you want to call it.

[Interviewer]

And that's their main priority. All right, guys, got Jeff Staple here today. Day two of Complex Con. He just finished playing poker.

[Jeff Staple]

I did. I went way further in the four day poker tournament than I thought. Finished 15th out of, like, over 300.

[Interviewer]

Damn.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You play a lot of poker?

[Jeff Staple]

I haven't played a tournament in like 10 years, but I play cash games. Yeah. But I was surprised that I went this far because, like, tournaments and cash games are totally different strategy. So anyway, we made it. We're here.

[Interviewer]

We're here, baby.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

Fashionably late. Yes. For five minutes or so.

[Interviewer]

No, not for this. I meant for complex.

[Jeff Staple]

Very late. Yeah. Hours late. But that.

[Interviewer]

You don't have a booth here this year?

[Jeff Staple]

No. Chill. I find when I roam and I'm amongst, like, the people, it's better. Yeah. Than like, only a select handful of people can get into a booth and meet me. I just like to roam around a little. Yes.

[Interviewer]

You don't like the exclusive waiting in line type of vibe?

[Jeff Staple]

I know there's a place for it, but I just feel like it's better for me to just interact with people out in the open. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You still looking to take on new collaborations and projects these days?

[Jeff Staple]

Please. Always.

[Interviewer]

Always.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the. The goal is actually how do you minimize them and be more selective about them? Right. Yeah, yeah. Because we have like damn near 15 to 30 different collabs a year. Holy crap. So it's like, how do we get it down so that it's like the right 12 or 10 instead, you know, that's like two to three a month.

[Interviewer]

It is.

[Jeff Staple]

Oh, yeah. It's every other week, basically.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That is nuts. And is it all these shoes or is there different.

[Jeff Staple]

No, all different stuff. Events, clothing, shoes. Sometimes it's like we just did an album with, like, this amazing jazz artist, so. Yeah. There's just so many projects and the Thing is, is like, when you work on a collab, you don't exactly know when it's gonna drop, when you start it. So they're like an ever evolving timeline. Sometimes you get these traffic jams where it's like, oh, shit, but can I curse on this?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jeff Staple]

Like you get like three collabs dropping in the same week and it gets really hectic.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. So that must be tough not knowing when it's going to drop because fashion's.

[Jeff Staple]

Evolving so quickly, right? Yeah. So you know the season, but you don't know. I wouldn't even say you know the month. Like, you know the season, you might know the month, but the week, forget it. Like it's average every day. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because you guys have probably had some great ideas and concepts, but the timing of the release is a little off, right?

[Jeff Staple]

Yes. Because you got to remember the other side is also a collaborative partner. So they have their own agenda, schedule, yada, yada, yada.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Jeff Staple]

So it's like, yeah, you got to just make sure that the planets are aligning. And sometimes we'll be talking collab with somebody. And we've been talking about doing it for months, if not years, but we haven't even gotten off the finish, like the starting blocks, you know, but we want to do it, but, like, we just flat. Yeah, one day. One day we will. We will. So to me, that's good. Like, collaboration should be organic. You know, the more forced and timed they are, inevitably they're a little bit less authentic because you're running up against the clock and all that stuff. Yeah, that's just me. I don't know, maybe I'm doing it wrong.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you've done a lot of successful releases, so it's hard to argue against you when it comes to stuff like that. Have you noticed anything, like, similar with your most successful launches?

[Jeff Staple]

Good questions. I don't even know what's a successful launch anymore, to be honest. Relative, I guess. Right? Yeah. I mean, like, sometimes they sell really well, Sometimes they sell out, you know, sometimes you. You know, some people say, like, oh, high resale, like a mark of a really good collaboration. But then sometimes I'll do a collab, it sells out. But there's none on resale, which actually means that everyone who bought it is wearing it and not reselling it. So that, to me, is also very, very successful.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Jeff Staple]

So it's all relative, you know, so sometimes I just do it for the love too. Sometimes you work with like a new up and coming artist that you know Won't sell out, but you do it because you want to big up the next generation and support, you know? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that makes sense. How much AI are you using?

[Jeff Staple]

A lot.

[Interviewer]

A lot.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah. Not for art yet, but for information, research, administrative stuff. You know, A funny thing is, I actually have my own AI. I had a. I had a team build a Jeff Staple AI with the intention that, like, for all the people that say, like, yo, I want to get a cup of coffee with you, Jeff, Can I pick your brain for five minutes? Like, I wanted to create an AI so that I can't do it, but you could talk to the AI and get almost the same thing. They did such a good job at it, and not only did they do a good job at it, but it's ever evolving and growing.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Jeff Staple]

That. So I. I've been privately testing out this AI, and it's too fucking good. Like, it knows, dude. It knows, like, my dog's name, my wife's name. Like, it knows everything. And I'm like, we cannot release this AI AI into the world because it'll be like, steal. It'll be in my bed before, you know, but, you know, holy fr. It knows everything, dude.

[Interviewer]

How is it pulling that information?

[Jeff Staple]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

It's just.

[Jeff Staple]

I've created a monster now, but it's. It's locked down. It's only for me, but I use it a lot when I need to just think outside of my own box. And it's. It's almost 99% really insightful.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is good for that initial thought process.

[Jeff Staple]

You know what? You know, what I just realized now is good about AI? It's got no ego. And with just Staple, the artist ponders shit and brainstorm shit, my ego comes into play, but also my imposter syndrome inferiority. Like, is this good enough? Is this not good enough? AI doesn't have those feelings, so it just spits out the most logically good idea. Right. Based on hods and numbers. But it's not about, like, what will your fans think? Like, it'll never think that way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

So in that way, it's very pragmatic. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's purely objective, Right? Yeah. Whereas ego, I guess when you have a successful mod, you think you can redo it. Right.

[Jeff Staple]

Fear is a big factor. And artists, fear and insecurities. I mean, everyone here is, like, you know, posturing, and they're doing their thing or do it, but deep down, they're, like, scared that nobody will like their shit. That's the. That's the bane of every artist. Exactly. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I think we're all hiding that part of us, right?

[Jeff Staple]

A little bit. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think it's always there. But I.

[Jeff Staple]

To be honest, the fans, I don't.

[Interviewer]

Know if they want to see you.

[Jeff Staple]

Crying in the corner. Right. Facts. They'd rather see you doing your thing. So it's important to keep up the. The bravado, I think, in. In this environment.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Now, being in Vegas, I got to ask about F1 Vegas. You're doing a special project with MGM.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes, the MGM Group. Now. Nice. So that's Bellagio, Aria, Cosmo park, mgm, vmgm. Wow. All the hotel groups. Yeah. So I'm curating a whole. I don't want to reveal too much right now, but let's just say I'm curating a whole motorsport inspired collection by me with some exclusive product for them as well that we're going to launch during F1 Vegas.

[Interviewer]

Dude, that's incredible.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes, it is.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Congratulations.

[Jeff Staple]

Shops in all of those hotels too.

[Interviewer]

Wow. So that's one of your bigger partnerships.

[Jeff Staple]

The crazy thing is it's not even one of the bigger ones, but I'm very out of it. Wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I've got some companies here.

[Jeff Staple]

Nike Trucks. I mean. Yeah. Pretty much anyone. I think the reason why I don't say it's big is because it's so short. It's just for like that in, you know, just every weekend.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

[Jeff Staple]

I mean, we do projects that are like, you know, years long.

[Interviewer]

You know what I mean?

[Jeff Staple]

This was actually like a quick hit. Wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So some of your projects actually take years, huh?

[Jeff Staple]

Oh, most of them. Wow. Most of them take one and a half to two years. Holy crap. Yeah. Shoes. Shoes take two years to make, you.

[Interviewer]

Know, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

Two years to make it. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

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[Jeff Staple]

So when a shoe came out at Complex Khan this year, it's been in discussion for at least 18 months. 18 to 20 pounds. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Why is it so long?

[Jeff Staple]

I guess supply chain logistics, tariffs, manufacturing overseas. It takes 90 days to ship something from China to America into a store on a boat. You can, you can overnight it, of course, on FedEx, but then the cost of the shoe becomes astronomically high.

[Interviewer]

You know, you would lose money.

[Jeff Staple]

Exactly. Yeah. So you got to plan ahead. Okay. 90 days on a boat, 60 days off. Sample one, sample two. You got to give the designers time to, like, revise shit too. Right. So you should at least allow for like three to five rounds of, like, samples. Each round is like 30 to 60 days.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

So, you know, then you got the design time, you got marketing. So you add all these things together. Before you know it, it's very easily like, wow, this is 18 months and every project.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That is nuts. Yeah. Do you have a shoe design you're most proud of?

[Jeff Staple]

I mean, it's got to be the pigeon dunk, you know, like, it's. It's the thing. It's very. It's a blessing to have a shoe that's on the Mount Rushmore of sneaker Vulture.

[Interviewer]

You know what I mean?

[Jeff Staple]

So I'm very, very proud of that. It is also a gift in the curse, though, because you make something that's so incredible and means so much to the culture that inevitably everything else by the public will be, like, compared to that. Yeah. It's almost like if a. If a rapper came out with like an all time incredible legendary album, every song and album after that will be compared to that, you know, so it.

[Interviewer]

Is a double leg sword. But it's.

[Jeff Staple]

I'm overall very blessed that, like, that.

[Interviewer]

Shoe, the Nike SB pigeon dunk is one of the grails.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, you've done so well at staying relevant because a lot of artists or whatever, designers get known for one thing.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But you've just repeatedly have had success since it.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah, yeah. I don't want to say staying relevant. I think it's just finding passion. Yeah. You know, I think that's what it is. Like, just recently. Artifact. I don't know if you know what.

[Interviewer]

Nft.

[Jeff Staple]

NFT has been in the news a lot recently because Benoit, one of the founders, passed away.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I didn't know.

[Jeff Staple]

Rest in peace. Yeah. But, you know, there's been a lot of sort of like, unarchiving of that information. And, you know, when they. When we released the Meta Pigeon dunk, which was the first digital, the physical sneaker with them, that was so dope and revolutionary. And that was like 25 years after the original pigeon bone. Wow. You know, so it is fun, but that comes from curiosity. Like, I'm just curious about new things. Yeah. It's not that I wake up and I'm like, how do I stay relevant? Like, I think when you start asking yourself that, you're in trouble, like, you should just be like, yo, what am I into? And let me figure out a way to take my interest and turn it into something that everybody's going to like. Similar to F1. You know, I've been into F1 for, like, five, seven years now, and now it's becoming a thing. But I've been able to pivot my work and my passion into this thing.

[Interviewer]

That we're about to launch now. Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I like that way, I think, because a lot of my generation, millennials, Gen Z's, they care a lot about relevancy.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Views, cloud, or whatever you want to call it. And that's their main priority.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yep. They put it over money sometimes.

[Jeff Staple]

Absolutely. I see this thing that's happening on Instagram right now where, like, it says, you'll get a notification and it'll say, use music that your followers will like. Have you seen this prompt? Like, it'll be like, try these songs that are trending and that your followers will like. Right. To add to your posts. And I looked at that and I was like, how about just use music that you like? It's so weird to have somebody be like, use these songs. Yeah. Because they're trending.

[Interviewer]

Trending audio.

[Jeff Staple]

And I listen, I'm like, but I don't like these songs. But I can see how if you're a young person, the dilemma might be, like, should I use this song that I don't like, doesn't represent me, but will get me followers, or should I use music that I passionately love but.

[Interviewer]

That won't get me followers?

[Jeff Staple]

And that's a conundrum that I think a lot of young people go, that's just one example that happens in every aspect of their lives. But that's Just one glaring example that I saw on ig.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it is interesting, man. Having started doing this before. Really social media started right before the Internet. Before the Internet.

[Jeff Staple]

I started it in 97. I had a. I had a landline.

[Interviewer]

Phone number on my business when I was born.

[Jeff Staple]

97. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

We're 28.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Nice.

[Jeff Staple]

28.

[Interviewer]

97. Wow.

[Jeff Staple]

So I have T shirts that are.

[Interviewer]

The same age as you, if you still have them.

[Jeff Staple]

I guess.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it must be crazy to see the. The shift to social media now. It's almost like you need it, right?

[Jeff Staple]

I don't mind the shift. Doesn't bother me because whether it was social media or E commerce or Twitter or MySpace or NFTs or Web3, whatever it is, to me, if you have a strong message, the medium that we're talking about, whether it's social media, whatever is the speaker. You understand?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

It's like what you plug your message into. So I guarantee you, two years from now, it won't be Instagram, it'll be something else. It won't be TikTok, it'll be something else. But as long as you have a strong message, whatever speaker you plug into, your message will be heard.

[Interviewer]

God.

[Jeff Staple]

But a lot of people, it's only about the speaker and there's no message that they're plugging into. So as you've seen, when the algorithm dies or when TikTok goes dark, everyone freaks the fuck out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

But I'm just like, that's cool. I'll just go back to print or whatever. Was like, it'll work, you know, because my message is like, crystal clear.

[Interviewer]

That's a very cool way of thinking. Basically, there'll always be a platform.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah, right. Yep. Just plug into that new speaker, guys.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people put all their eggs in one basket and then they freak out when they get banned or something.

[Jeff Staple]

Exactly. Or when they change the algo. And you're just like, why did my likes drop? It's like, shit. I understand. That's a scary feeling. But, like, you should think about what you actually represent when there's nothing attached.

[Interviewer]

To you, you know? Are you still bullish on digital. Digital collectibles? Because, like, I buy shoes on Fortnite.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like, I dropped real money on that. So I think it's still pretty viable, right?

[Jeff Staple]

Highly. Highly. In fact, I could see a future where, because of the environmental impact of making shit. You know what I mean? Landfills, waste. I think there's a possible future. You know what you gotta. The other thing you Gotta factor in is what's happening with wearables.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

You've seen meta glasses, you've seen how they're evolving. The new Samsung, like Apple Vision Killer. Have you seen that device? It's so sick. Half the price of Apple Vision, but like twice as good. Really. So it's gonna get better and better, right? That sort of VR augmented reality shit. You couple that with the environmental impact. I personally see a future where everyone's just wearing a white T shirt and, like, khakis, but everyone's looking at you through these optics, you know, these AR optics, and they get to see what style you are virtually.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Jeff Staple]

So your wardrobe, your cloth, you have no closet. You just have white tees. Be real comfortable. But when you go, it's literally like the. The NFT like world. But in real life, because of the merging of. Of optics that are improving, it's going to be in your contact lenses. Eventually you're not even going to need glasses. Yeah. And then the environment is just going to be like, yo, we can't make any more. Like, every landfill is filled. We have the Mount Everest of landfills now. Stop making. It's all happening here now. Holy crap. That's my prediction. In our lifetime. In our lifetime. I think in our lifetime.

[Interviewer]

So maybe our kids or grandkids.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes, our kids in the next 50 years, I think. Wow.

[Interviewer]

So is that landfill issue really a big issue right now? Yeah. I didn't know that.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah. And. And clothing and shoes are the top two, like, killers of it, you know? Like, they're the top.

[Interviewer]

I had a guest recently. They said we throw out like 80 pounds of clothes a year or something on average.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

A household.

[Jeff Staple]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

Pretty. Pretty crazy. £80. Damn. That is nuts. White shirts and khakis and every.

[Jeff Staple]

And your style is still your style because of air.

[Interviewer]

So you'll have to buy the shirt digitally, you're saying?

[Jeff Staple]

Yes. Everything will be skins, just like for. Yeah, Fortnite. Exactly. Wow. It's kind of dope too, right? Yeah. I don't know if you could change multiple times a day. You could be like, at one o', clock, I want to look like this and just flip your style and at two o', clock, change it up.

[Interviewer]

It would make it easy to wake up and just put on the same act every day.

[Jeff Staple]

Mark Zuckerberg style. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe he already knew that was the future. Yeah.

[Jeff Staple]

All those tech guys, they wear a uniform, they don't change. Yeah. I think they know.

[Interviewer]

Well, it takes a lot of brain power to the video, but style. Yeah. But Style. Yep. Man, this was awesome. What's the next projects? Anything you want to announce here?

[Jeff Staple]

I have a new revolutionary announcement. Let's hear it. Speaking of new tech, brick and mortar retail stores. Going back to stores. Old school store.

[Interviewer]

You think they'll come back?

[Jeff Staple]

Yes, absolutely. And so we're built. We just opened New York City six months ago. Our flagship at 21 Mercer street, the original site of Nike Lab. We're now opening Shanghai. Actually, I'm going to Shanghai tomorrow to go open the Shanghai store. We have Hong Kong coming, la coming. I really am bullish on brick and mortar retail. How come?

[Interviewer]

Because everyone's going the other way on that. Right.

[Jeff Staple]

I think that. Okay, here's the thing. When you, when you talk about AI, right? When you look at social media now and you see something crazy, don't you question whether this is AI or not, Right? You're like, wait, is this real? This is not real. AI in the sense that it's been on social media is not even 12 months old. It's like eight months old from like, you know, Sora. And what you're seeing now. Imagine what AI is going to be like in three years. It's going to be indiscernible. You won't trust anything that you see on a screen. Whether it's on your big screen, little screen, iPad, or watch, whatever. You're not going to trust it because your brain is going to be like, programmed to think this is fake. First, how do I validate this is real? You go to a fucking store and you shake someone's hand and then that feeling of like, yo, I met a real dude, I shook a real hand. We are now in contact is going to be, in my prediction, the new luxury. Wow. Fuck Hermes. Fuck Louis Vuitton. Not really fuck them. I love them. I just mean that, like, the new luxury would be that I met a real friend at a real place. Because everything else will just be AR VR AI. Like, everything will just be digitized.

[Interviewer]

Damn.

[Jeff Staple]

So I think places for people to connect are going to be so important.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I do agree on that. You're heading to China. There's AI, robots, companion robots there already.

[Jeff Staple]

Yes. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, but I'm already seeing it. Like, this is not even a wild prediction. When I do an event now, kids afterwards are like, almost in tears because of the ethereal experience that they just had that's foreign to them. Like, dude, this event was. You don't even know, man. I met two people. Like, they're my homies. I'm Like, I'm like, yes, like, from where? When I was born, I was like, yeah, this is, like, normal. And I'm just trying to introduce this palette to people now of like, yo, come out and meet real people. And it feels really exclusive. It feels really insider. It's dope. I. I love being able to share that with people.

[Interviewer]

I love it, man.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

While you're going towards retail, while everyone.

[Jeff Staple]

Else is running away, this. You need both. I'm just. I'm. I'm not shutting down my E commerce or my socials, but I do think that, like, what we're going to do with our retail space is going to be really cool. And you know, how else I know is an indicator. So many companies and brands are using us as our retail platform to do events and activations out of because they know the way that we can connect with people. You can't do it with buying digital ads or, like, you know, doing sponsored posts.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's not work anymore. No, it doesn't.

[Jeff Staple]

I remember New Year's or them now. Right.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. No, I don't. When a podcast plays an ad, I just skip it.

[Jeff Staple]

Exactly. Yeah. When you see a post and it says hashtag ad and you're just like.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, scroll right past it.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think events inside of stores, like retail shopping, is.

[Jeff Staple]

Is a good move too. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Culture Kings does a great job about. Yes, they do. Yeah. Shout out.

[Jeff Staple]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Jeff. Where could people find you find your.

[Jeff Staple]

Store and everything at Jeff Staple. That's where you can find all the latest and greatest of what I'm doing at Staple, Pigeon is the brand and yeah, just keep following us, man.

[Interviewer]

Awesome. Thanks for your time, man.

[Jeff Staple]

Thank you too. Yeah. Great.

[Interviewer]

See you guys.

[Podcast Host]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like, like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

[Jeff Staple]

Thank you.