John Taffer Says The American Dream Is Breaking... | DSH #1972

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour #1972

Episode: John Taffer Says The American Dream Is Breaking...
Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: John Taffer, hospitality veteran, TV host (“Bar Rescue”), entrepreneur

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Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation between Sean Kelly and John Taffer, known for his brutally honest approach on “Bar Rescue.” The discussion delves into the challenges of the hospitality industry, generational shifts in social behavior, the evolving American Dream, technology in the bar and restaurant scene, and the mindset shifts necessary for personal and business growth. Taffer shares his philosophy on accountability, memorable experiences from Bar Rescue, and his entrepreneurial journey, all peppered with actionable advice and bold opinions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Changing Bar & Hospitality Industry

• Pandemic’s Lasting Impact on Socialization

  • The pandemic disrupted the "minor leagues" of social interaction (like coffee shops & student unions), delaying the transition of young people into bar culture.
  • Taffer predicts that this generation is “about four to five years behind” in developing social habits centered on bars, but a rebound is coming.
    • “There’s one thing that we all need as human beings. It’s not a drink, but it’s social interaction." (02:29)

• Shifts in Bar and Restaurant Trends

  • Despite perceptions, bar sales have increased (~4% this year). Premiumization is more common: fewer drinks, but higher quality and price.

  • Health trends (like GLP-1 medications) and social shifts influence decreased alcohol consumption and smaller appetites when eating out, but Taffer sees these as part of a larger, cyclical pattern.

    “There’s a lot of factors contributing. I don’t always buy the health excuse in and of itself. I think there has to be other things layered onto it as well.” (04:40)

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The Vegas and National Bar Scene

• Taffer has seen landmark Vegas bars close and cites social media backlash against resort fees, parking costs, and overpricing as hindering tourism recovery.

  “Even if you can afford it, some of it gets a little unprincipled... That doesn’t mean I want to be taken advantage of.” (08:42)

• New York is hailed as the “number one bar city” due to its neighborhood-centric, diverse bar culture, in contrast to the West Coast’s focus on nightclubs.

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AI and Technology in Hospitality

• Taffer is open to AI bartenders and tech but only when it enhances customer experience:

  “If the customer likes AI bartenders, I’m in. It’s up to you, not me.” (13:14)

  • He advocates for adding personality and social features into AI experiences to encourage engagement, e.g., custom cocktails guests can share.
• Cautions against removing human connection:

  “I’ve been very hesitant to put AI between me and the customer. Brands are going to diminish in brand equity, connectivity disappears... He or she who creates the best reactions wins. AI is not going to do that for me.” (13:18–14:47)

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The Restaurant Business: Strategy & Expansion

• Taffer’s own Taffer’s Tavern runs a much higher percentage of beverage sales (50–55%) than standard casual restaurants (15–20%), boosting profitability.

• Cautiously expands into new cities (recently Orlando), avoids anti-business environments like California due to costs and regulatory burdens.

  “There's 49 other states. Why go to a place that's not business friendly?” (16:09)

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Mindset, Excuses, and the American Dream

• Excuses as the Core of Failure

  • After interviewing 120+ failing bar owners, Taffer realized none blamed themselves—a key insight that fueled his book Don't BS Yourself.

    “Excuses are the common denominator of failure because they prevent change, they prevent growth, they prevent everything positive about us.” (31:50)

  • Taffer lists common excuses: fear, scarcity, circumstance, resources. He pushes people to take personal responsibility as the lever for change.

• Economic and Cultural Shifts

  • Increasing small business costs, minimum wage spikes, and regulatory hurdles are eroding affordability for entrepreneurs and individuals.
  • Taffer is concerned about rising barriers to home ownership for young people—a core of the “American Dream”—and traces this to deeper structural issues, not just generational laziness.

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Life, Career, and Balance

• Taffer put career first in his 20s and 30s (only married at 35), credits this for his achievements and flexibility—advises young people to do the same.

  “I sort of discourage somebody from getting married at least below 25, 26...without having some of that in your belt.” (19:59)

• Now emphasizes balance and the importance of quality of life, taking longer vacations, and prioritizing family as he gets older.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Bar Rescue’s Emotional Highs

  • Taffer recalls impactful interventions, such as a couple on the brink of divorce saved by a televised confrontation—"the ones that impact me are the ones with these family dynamics." (23:20–26:43)
  • “Sometimes we all need that stiff kick in the butt, you know what I mean?...They’re good people in a bad place.” (26:46)
  • Drives home that the real focus isn’t on rescuing a bar, but rescuing people.

• Understanding Human Motivation

  • Cites his background in anthropology, continuously reads people for their "primal motivations"—are they givers or takers, respectful or not?

    “The truth is always before the but, never after.” (27:12)

• On Respect and Leadership

  • Abhors disrespect, especially towards employees, and uses tough love to force a moment of realization.

    “If they do that, I take their dignity away and I take it away in front of the employees and I say to them, how do you feel now that I did it to you?” (28:15)

• On Time Management

  • Bar Rescue’s rapid turnarounds are a masterclass in focusing on what matters—design, decisions, execution—done in just four days.

    “Time is money. So the power of time is a very big lesson for me in Bar Rescue.” (36:41)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “You never do something because of an excuse. You only don't do something because of an excuse.” — John Taffer (00:00)
• “There’s one thing that we all need as human beings. It’s not a drink, but it’s social interaction.” — John Taffer (02:29)
• “If the customer likes AI bartenders, I’m in. It’s up to you, not me.” — John Taffer (13:14)
• “He or she who creates the best reactions wins. AI is not going to do that for me... Connecting with people in that type of a way, that's when the magic really happens in a bar.” — John Taffer (14:02)
• “Excuses are the common denominator of failure because they prevent change, they prevent growth, they prevent everything positive about us.” — John Taffer (31:50)
• “The truth is always before the but, never after.” — John Taffer (27:12)
• “If I can change the way you think, I can't help but change what you do. That's why I'm so aggressive.” — John Taffer (28:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:47 – Opening insights, Taffer’s philosophy on accountability, intro to the episode
• 02:12–05:08 – How pandemic, health trends, and social shifts have transformed bar/restaurant culture
• 06:18–09:05 – Bar/restaurant profitability, the Vegas squeeze, and social media’s role in consumer sentiment
• 13:14–17:19 – AI in hospitality, maintaining human connection, obstacles to entrepreneurship
• 23:20–31:45 – “Bar Rescue” stories, family dynamics, changing the way people view failure and excuses
• 36:41–37:35 – The value of time in business, stories of resourcefulness
• 37:50–39:22 – Taffer’s new ventures (brown butter bourbon), future plans

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Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a rich, provocative look into the bar/restaurant world and beyond, with John Taffer’s no-nonsense, deeply human approach at its core. He champions radical accountability, decries the creeping cost and regulatory burdens on entrepreneurs, and fiercely defends the dignity of people behind bars—not just as workers, but as families and dreamers. In the end, Taffer’s message is clear: excuses kill growth, human connection is non-negotiable, and reclaiming the American Dream starts with personal ownership and action.

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For more:

• John Taffer’s book: Don’t BS Yourself: Crush the Excuses That Are Holding You Back
• Taffer’s new product: Taffer’s Brown Butter Bourbon (available in select states)

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[End of summary]

Transcript

[John Taffer]

What if you woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror and said, I'm failing because of me? Then you would change, wouldn't you? If you say I'm failing because of the Euro and Greece, you have no reason to change. That excuse changes everything. Excuses paralyze. You never do something because of an excuse. You only don't do something because of an excuse unless you're standing on a cliff. You really don't have anything to be scared of in business. And if you look at life, anything more than five years ago, you don't regret it anyway. Sapphire is bs. There's nothing if you look back on your life five years ago, Sean, that you really regret.

[Sean]

Okay, guys, got John Taffer on the show today. Very special guest. I've seen a lot of his episodes. Very honored to have him on 10 seasons now. Congrats, John. That's incredible. Just launched the 10th season a couple months ago, and I'm sure you're busier more than ever. Thanks for coming on, man. I know you travel a lot. I saw on the makeshift podcast, when you film, you're filming four days each, shoot 40 episodes a season. How's that been this year? Have you been traveling a lot?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, you know, and it's. Unfortunately, I don't get to go to Paris, France. You know, I don't get to go to New York. So typically, we're not in the most glamorous of places when we shoot, but, yeah, unfortunately, every episode's a week on the road, Know, with travel time, et cetera. So years ago, we used to do 40, 45 episodes a year. That's on a road, 40 weeks a year, Sean. I mean, that's. That. That's taxing. Even if you love the work, being on a road that much sort of sucks. This year, we. We didn't do that many, so we did about 20. So it's a lot, a lot easier.

[Sean]

Do you have any say in the locations, or is that kind of all random for you?

[John Taffer]

Well, I approved the cities, but I have no involvement in the casting reels or anything to do with any of the individual bars. I don't want to know anything. I want to show up completely blind, and I don't want to be ahead of the audience ever. That's why I think I've been on TV 15 years, Sean, is because I'm painstakingly honest when I go about this.

[Sean]

That's what you're known for, man. Have you done any trips to Vegas, Any of the bars out here?

[John Taffer]

Sure. I was just In Vegas a few weeks ago. Champagnes, unfortunately. Which was that historic one, maybe? The mob bar that I did in an episode years ago just closed, unfortunately.

[Sean]

Oh, that's a shame. I know that's a trend in the business right now. My generation's not drinking. Right. How have you been adapting with all that?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, and I think about that a lot, Sean. You know, how is that happening? And I get that some of it is health concerns, but, you know, I blame the pandemic a little bit. And let me explain to you what I mean. Starbucks, coffee shops, those social environments are the minor league to bars. When you're 18, 19, 20, those are the places you go. Student unions, even to hang out with your friends. There's a table in front of you, there's drinks in front of you. You socialize. It's the minor leagues of the bar business. Then when you turn 21, you take that social need that you have, that interaction that you've enjoyed all these years, and you just move it to a bar environment. None of that happened during the pandemic. The minor leagues, if you will, didn't really happen. So I think the current generation, in my view, is about four to five years behind. And I believe the drinking will catch up. Because, you know, Sean, there's one thing that we all need as human beings. It's not a drink, but it's social interaction. And it isn't cool when we sit home staring at screens all day long and, you know, as we go out and as we interact, I think people get hooked to that again. So I blame some of that on the pandemic, and I think that's going to sort of bounce back.

[Sean]

Yeah. So you think there'll be a resurgence in bars and people getting together again in the future?

[John Taffer]

Yeah. Interestingly, bar sales are up about 4% this year. So it, you know, the industry isn't struggling. What's happened is a shift to more premiumization. So you might only have one drink, but you're going to have a really cool drink or you're going to have a premium drink. You might spend a little more on that one drink rather than buying three. So there's a premiumization sort of happening and some other shifts. GLP1 medications play a part, Sean. You know, people are eating less. Sometimes you don't want to go out and spend $70 on a meal if you know you're only going to eat half of it. So. So I think there's a lot of factors contributing.

[Sean]

Peptides are the number One most searched term in the world right now. These are what, appetizer peptides, GLB1 peptides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are it. It does seem like there's a big shift into health, right? So I don't know if that's kind of impacting alcohol as well.

[John Taffer]

Oh, I think it is. You know, I. I think it's sort of a trifecta. I think that each of these things are having a combined impact. I think that's why the drop is so much. You know, Sean, I remember years ago, 10, 12 years ago, when red meat was the enemy. Oh, man. Don't eat red meat. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That year in the restaurant business, red meat sales went up 6%. So I don't always buy the health excuse in and of itself. I think there has to be other things layered onto it as well.

[Sean]

Right now, you've been doing this a long time. Has there ever been, like, a bar recession or a really big downswing in your career in. In bars?

[John Taffer]

Not really. Not really. I think, you know, the. The. The pandemic was really, of course, the ultimate in that regard. But, you know, the business comes and goes a little. The restaurant industry has had more sways in it over the years in the bar industry. Has.

[Sean]

Yeah. And I know you got your own restaurant now. What's happened? Like, it's in Atlanta, I believe.

[John Taffer]

Yeah, we have three now in Atlanta.

[Sean]

Wow, that's impressive. Thank you. I know that's a tough industry, though, right? But you've got a lot of experience.

[John Taffer]

Obviously, it is a tough industry. And, you know, you got to be smart. You got to build it for the customer in every conceivable way. And I'm lucky because I'm Taffer. I'm a beverage brand. So my restaurant runs about 50 to 55% beverage sales, whereas the average casual restaurant might run 15 to 18% beverage sales. And since beverages are your highest profit product, Sean, that adds a lot to my bottom line and to the viability of our concept. But that's unique to my brand. There's really only one brand, really, that's in that beverage space. If you think about it, there's a lot of chefs out there, but there's not a lot of people in the beverage space.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's unheard of. So for bars, what's the typical breakdown with food and beverage sales? Is it more like an 8020 split?

[John Taffer]

Typically, yes. Like the Fridays of the world, you know, the Buffalo Wild Wings of the world. All those would be even the Mortons and the Ruth. Chris's tend to win run about 80, 20.

[Sean]

Wow. 80, 20. The. The food is 20, correct?

[John Taffer]

No, the food is 80.

[Sean]

Oh, the food is 80.

[John Taffer]

Yeah. Beverage sales are about 20 of a typical restaurant or less.

[Sean]

Got it. And that's their biggest margin item, right?

[John Taffer]

It is your biggest margin item. Again, that's why TAFAS has an advantage, because we sell more beverages than other people do.

[Sean]

Nice. Why'd you wait so long to start, if I may ask? Because you could have started this a while ago, right?

[John Taffer]

I could have, yeah. I've been very hesitant to do it. The timing had to be right. The concept had to be just right. I think the market had to be right. And I got to tell you, Sean, my timing sucked because I was building the first one and the pandemic hit. So the first one we built was in Alpharetta, Georgia. It took me over a year to build it. Every time somebody got sick, we had to stop construction for three weeks. It was a fricking nightmare. But we got it open. Now five years later. Of course, it's a great success and we're very proud of it, so it's worth it.

[Sean]

Got plans to scale to other cities. Are you going to keep it in atl?

[John Taffer]

No, we just opened in Orlando. And, you know, we're looking at other areas in the country to expand right now.

[Sean]

Yeah, what's. I'm in Vegas. I'm always curious how things are going here. What's your favorite bar in Vegas?

[John Taffer]

Oh, boy. You know, I got. I got a. A few of them. I like Bravo. You know, Lavo was sort of fun. If you're going to be on the

[Sean]

strip of the Super Bowl a couple years ago is great.

[John Taffer]

Yeah, it's a great bar. But, you know, Vegas is experiencing its own challenges right now, too, as you know, living here. You know, I lived there for 15 years, so.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, we. We have a big downswing going on here right now. What do you think of that? Do you think Vegas will be able to recover from this?

[John Taffer]

You know, what I worry about is, you know, if you go on social media, it's ugly. You know, $26 bottles of water, you know, resort taxes, $40 to park. $40 in resort taxes. It costs more than a damn room. So when you go on social media, it's a little ugly. And I think that's going to have to sort of filter itself through before I think we start to see the shift back. I'm worried about the summer for sure in Ben.

[Sean]

I agree. I. No matter how wealthy I Get like I just paid 55 for valet yesterday at MGN. It's just like that stuff annoys people, you know?

[John Taffer]

Well, some of it, even if you can afford it, some of it, it gets a little unprincipled, if you will. You know, you feel like I got the money, but that doesn't mean I want to be taken advantage of. That's just not reasonable. Think about the guy who checks in the excalibur. Sean pays $39 for a room rate and his breakfast cost him 60 bucks. It makes no sense.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. I love seeing those posts where they post their water bottle purchases or if you take a snap from the the fridge in the room, it's like 30 bucks. Yep. Crazy. Trying to nickel and dime. Yep. You said on Brobaul that you believe New York City is the number one bar city in the country.

[John Taffer]

I just think New York is a great bar town. You know, there's a great neighborhood bar almost on every block in New York. And it's very unique. Each block almost has its own marketplace in New York. It's a very unique place. When I think of other cities that have great bars, you know, they tend to be places like, but they're not quantitatively as much as New York. Cleveland is a cool city for bars. Detroit can be a cool city for bars. You know, some of these midwestern Chicago, some of these Midwestern cities can do great too. The west coast is not a great bar place. I mean, Los Angeles is not a bar town. Really. Even Vegas. When you think about all the great places in Vegas, they're nightclubs, you know. No, no. Great bars come to mind. And. And I'm hoping to change that in Vegas. Let's be real.

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[Sean]

I could think of is Chandelier Bar. Have you been to that one?

[John Taffer]

Yes, in Cosmo.

[Sean]

Yeah, that one's beautiful but.

[John Taffer]

Yeah, but still it's in, it's, it's a bar in a casino, you know, you know, it's, it's not its own, you know, four walls bar environment. We're famous for nightclubs but we're not famous for bars yet.

[Sean]

Yeah, we got a couple AI bartenders here. Have you seen those yet? They make the drinks for you.

[John Taffer]

Yeah, very cool. You know what's cool about them? If they do it right, Sean, Imagine you put your own recipe in on your phone. You name it. Sean's cocktail. Now when all your friends come, they can order Sean's cocktail. So you become the cross pollination vehicle by saying, well, when you're there, try my cocktail. So it creates a whole social interaction element and I think that's the next phase where they need to bring these AI bartenders is to allow you to get famous and see if your cocktail will sell as compared to mine. And there's a lot of fun that could be had with it, I think in the next generation of it.

[Sean]

That's actually brilliant. I'm surprised you have that take because I, I thought you would be against them, honestly. But that's, that's a very interesting take. I didn't think of that.

[John Taffer]

You know, it's interesting. I've, I've been approached by a few of them to partner, you know, and promote and, etc and you know, I don't like the, the, the ones I'm going to say it, but hear me out before you make a face at me. I don't like the ones without personality. I believe that a robotic bartender can have a screen, can have some type of a personality. If it's a sports bar, he can be a sports dude, he can be a comical. We can add personality too in these AI systems. And that's where I'd like to see it go. But you know what, guys? I'm not against AI. I'm not for AI. I'm for successful bars. And if you. The customer likes AI bartenders, I'm in. It's up to you, not me.

[Sean]

Yeah. Have you incorporated AI with any of your businesses yet?

[John Taffer]

We have AI in the restaurants big time, but it's more in the back of the house. I've been very hesitant to put AI between me and the customer. You know, I feel once we do that, brands are going to diminish in brand equity, connectivity disappears. You know, for many, many years as a consultant, I would teach, you know, the science of reaction management. And I believe that we're not doing a podcast now. Sean, you're creating reactions. The podcast is not the product. The reactions are the product. If the podcast doesn't create the reactions, what the hell's the point? You're not going to be successful. So I understand that the plate of food in a restaurant is not the product. It's how you react to it is what the product is. Service is the same thing. I connect with you while we provide service. We don't play music, we play reactions. We achieve it through music. We don't do designs. We create reactions. We achieve it through designs. And I suggest you don't do podcasts. You create reactions, you achieve it through podcasts. So I am very big on understanding the power of reactions and that in my business, he or she who creates the best reactions wins. AI is not going to do that for me. Connectivity does that for me. Eye to eye, belly to belly. Connecting with people in that type of a way, that's when the magic really happens in a bar. And I worry when we start putting AI between us and the customer that that connectivity disappears and it all becomes about who has the cheaper cocktail.

[Sean]

Right. That's some of the best advice I've ever heard. But you're right, because as business owners, we try to save on certain costs, but you got to think bigger picture. Right. I went to a Korean barbecue the other day and I got sat down by an AI robot, but there's no personal connection there with. With the waiter, you know?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, yeah. So you agree with me. You want to look in somebody's eyes. So I want a human being to make recommendations to you, be excited about the men you talk, connect with you. And. And everything in the back is as AI and as automated as we can have it, of course, because that provides great consistency in my business for Product creation is, when you have it all automated in those ways, it's consistent as hell, which is great.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Is there still 80% of restaurants failing in the first five years? Is that still an accurate stock?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, you know, it's a pretty good statistic. I haven't tracked it lately. It might be a little greater now with the inflationary impacts. And, you know, I have so many friends that have opened restaurants in places like New York and they're telling me the only guy making money there is a landlord. I mean, you know, the occupancy cost, the trash pickup cost, the utility costs, food costs, beverage costs, labor cost. Look at California, the minimum wage. Look at what it did to California. You know, companies that have been in existence 50 years, restaurants closed because of that. So I think that, you know, it's a more challenging time today, for sure. Yeah.

[Sean]

You publicly said you would never open up a bar in California, right?

[John Taffer]

No, I would not. It's just too anti business friendly. It's a shame because I love it. I lived there for many, many years. I lived in Los Angeles. I freaking love the place. But it's so business unfriendly. There's 49 other states. Why go to a place that's business friendly? You don't have to go to a place that's not business friendly. And look, they're paying the price. Look at what's happening economically with the, the mass exodus, if you will.

[Sean]

Yeah, they lost Tesla, they lost a lot of billionaires, a lot of billion dollar companies. Yeah.

[John Taffer]

I don't understand why a government wouldn't want to be business friendly. You know, when I look at the political environment today and we talk all about affordability, if we don't make businesses affordable, how do we make individuals lives affordable? It starts with business affordability. When you go to the grocery store, when you go to get a haircut, when you go to buy clothes, whatever, it starts with that. So I think that the government is a little off track. I'd like to see us focus on business affordability, small business affordability. And of course that trickles down to everything we buy every day. So, you know, those are the things that are challenging business today is that the affordability in the business world is sometimes even more challenging than it is in our world.

[Sean]

Sean, do you think it's harder now to start a business than it was when you were getting started?

[John Taffer]

Yes and no. You know, I think that the current administration. Look, I'm an independent. I'm. I don't. We. I think the current administration did A couple of things for small business that are really powerful. One, they put a lot of money in the SBA loans, so that's really funded now. So you really do have good access to SBA loans now, which wasn't the case years ago, so that's really cool. The other thing is, it used to be that if you bought a stove or a piece of equipment for your studio, you'd have to write that off, the deduction of it over five years or more time. Now you can write it off the first year that you buy it. So if you buy a piece of equipment for 50 grand, you can write off the 50 grand this year. So the availability of money and the acceleration of depreciations and those types of things. Yeah. Can provide a pretty good environment for opening a business today. But, you know, cost of goods is higher, labor cost is higher, so you have to balance it all. But all in all, I do think it's a good time to enter a small business right now.

[Sean]

Yeah, I. I try to not make excuses. I try to have accountability. I see these posts online where it's like, baby boomers got to be able to afford a house, and it was much easier for them, only the husband had to work, and now it's hard to buy a house. But I'm all about just taking action and doing what you can in the current environment.

[John Taffer]

Right. Yeah. You know, look, the Average person makes 5% more each year, you know, on a payroll, if you. If you're lucky, sometimes three, sometimes two. You know, the only way to step out of that box is to really start to create some type of an entrepreneurial activity in your life. Many people can do it while they still have that job. Right. To figure out how to create that model. And there's so many opportunities today, as, you know, we see them buzz by online all the time to do that. But, you know, one of my big disappointments in the current environment is just what you just said. People's inability to buy a home when they're young. I think that's very, very important and key to the American dream. So it's something that needs to be fixed and.

[Sean]

Yeah. How long did it take you to get your first house? How old were you?

[John Taffer]

Ooh, I was about 30.

[Sean]

Okay, so you were living with.

[John Taffer]

You know, when I was young, Sean, I worked in a hotel business, and I was a hotel general manager, so they would send me to a bigger hotel, and I did really good, so they'd send me to a bigger hotel. And so very, very many times I Lived in the suites in those hotels for years. So I didn't have a residence when I was bouncing around in a hotel business.

[Sean]

Sweet life of Zak Okoty. It reminds me of that show. Those kids just lived in a hotel their whole life. Yeah, must have been nice. But that, that experience, traveling the world at a young age must have been pretty valuable for you, right?

[John Taffer]

Oh, it was great. You know, I didn't get married Till I was 35 and you know, I put my career way ahead and I'm not certain I would be as successful as I am today if I didn't do that, Sean. I didn't have to worry about a child, I didn't have to worry about a wife. I could move to the next opportunity. I could go anywhere at any time. I was opportun, opportunity driven. You know, it got me ahead quicker. It accelerated I think my growth in experience because I could learn all these things along the way as well as income. So, you know, I'm not, I don't, I sort of discourage somebody for getting married at least below 25, 26 today without having some of that in your belt.

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[Sean]

Let's go. I agree. I just got married at 28 and similar to you, career was number one for most of my twenties. Where does it rank for you? Now that you're, you're married and established, is it still number one?

[John Taffer]

No. You know, I gotta tell you, I'm learning to balance that better, Sean, and it's not easy. But I'm a little older than you, buddy, so I've had a little more experience trying to do it. It's not easy, you know, it isn't but what I've learned now is. Let me give you an example. April 25th, I'm going on my boat to the Bahamas for six weeks.

[Sean]

Wow.

[John Taffer]

I would have never done that a couple years ago. This is a bucket lister for me. So now I got Starlink and I got my phones and I got all that stuff, of course. But I would have never done that years ago. So I'm getting better at it. And you just got married, so you don't have any children yet, right?

[Sean]

Not yet.

[John Taffer]

Yeah. Not yet. Well, that's a game changer. It's hard to travel and do that as well. But I'm getting better at it. And I think your generation, and I blame some of the pandemic on this as well. I think it caused your generation to think a lot more about quality of life when the pandemic challenged it so much. And I think it challenged your generation to see what is important. What is important to me. What is important to me. And career wasn't it then? It was quality of life, going places, traveling. So I think that your generation is doing a far better job of managing that balance than previous generations. Maybe time's a bit too much.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I think there's that part of it. I also think social media's gotten so powerful, you see the other side of it where people are just doom scrolling on their phone eight hours a day. So you gotta have really had a lot of discipline. I feel like in today's era. Right. There's a lot of distractions.

[John Taffer]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Sean]

That's what I feel like. Separates people. Yep. Going back to the show, though, I know that's, you know, what you're known for these days. Which, which location do you think about the most? Is there a specific story from the 10 seasons that you still think about a lot?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. The, the ones that impact me are the ones with these family dynamics. You know, there was one episode years ago with a couple from Colombia, it was Edith and Juan Pablo. And, you know, when I show up at bar rescue, I get no briefing. They put me in a makeup chair. They give me 60 seconds. You know, Sean and John are in business together. Sean lost his house already. John's about to lose his house. They're in debt 400 grand. They have enough money to make it two more months. That's all I want to know until I go in. So. So when, when I went into this one, the, the producer tells me, you know, well, John, the problem is that the guy doesn't Come home at night. And his wife, they've been married for years. His wife, you know, is very upset. She thinks he's cheating on her. Said, okay, let the wife come in the van and do recon with me. So the wife gets in the van, she's got a gift bag with her. And she gets in the van. I said, what's the gift bag? I thought it was for me. She goes, oh, it's my 14th wedding anniversary. I said, really? So is that for your husband? She goes, yes. I said, what did you get him? She goes, divorce papers in the bag. So now we watch recon with the screen. Sean, you're going to like this story. And a girl walks up to her husband and says, are you married? And he says, there's no ring on this finger. She's watching. The veins are coming out of her neck. She's getting very upset. She's like, she's watching her husband engage and do this. So now I look at her, I say, edith, I'm here with you. This is your chance to end this. You need to walk in there and your husband needs to understand this is a new day. You will not tolerate this anymore. Anymore. Are you good to do that? And I'll be right behind you. She goes, yes. She walks in, punches him in the mouth, throws a drink in his face and rips his shirt off. Four days later and I, for this episode, I wish you could watch it. After talking to me about for this episode, Sean, I beat the hell out of this guy for four days. I did not like him as a man, you know what I mean? And I let him know. So four days later, I'm sitting with the two of them and she tears up the divorce papers. They put their wedding bands back on. He hugs me, kisses my cheek, says to me, john, you're the father I've never had. Boy, did I need that kick in the butt. Four months later, I get an email, they're having a baby. Those are the episodes that matter to me. You know, there was another one, Characters which became Moonrunners. There was son and daughter were crying. They're working for their parents. Everybody was hysterical crying. They were failing. This family was in a mess. And I fixed a bar. And now they have three locations. And you know, they're dear friends of mine. And when I can fix a family, Sean, wow, is that powerful, man. That's the stuff that matters more to me, you know, and some of the stories are just so disgusting. For example, this season, there's a guy living in his parents basement 50 years old, Sean, living in his parents basement, blew 400,000 of his money. Now he blew 400,000 of their retirement money. And his parents house is on the line. And his parents are like close to 80 years old. They have nothing. He wiped them out now. And this guy keeps spending 20, 30, 40 grand a month more of their money. So now I walk in and I realize this isn't about a bar. I got to save his parents house somehow. That's why bar rescue is so intense to me. I don't see the bar, I see the people.

[Sean]

It's like you're Dr. Phil on some of these episodes.

[John Taffer]

You know, it's funny, my crew calls me Dr. John after some of them when I walk off the sets. Yeah, I mean, I've helped some marriages, I've really helped some people. Sometimes we all need that stiff kick in the butt, you know what I mean? And that wake up because often I say this, they're good people in a bad place. I got to get them out of that place. And sometimes that takes a jolt.

[Sean]

Yeah, I would say, like understanding people, that's got to be one of your. Your biggest strengths, right?

[John Taffer]

It is. When I was in college, I took cultural anthropology classes, was my minor. And, you know, the study of primates and the activity of primates and primate communities and their socialization. We're not so different than them, Sean. You know, you and I are first, primal. If I said something to you that was insulting, you're going to land in a primal place. Either you're going to land defensive or you're going to land aggressive. That's primal. Then the words happen after that. You know, the facial expressions, your anger, all that happens after we land primally. So I always study people and what is their primal motivation? Are they good or are they bad? Are they givers or are they takers? Are they respectful? Are they disrespectful? Where do they land before they say but and make it seem better than they are? You know, I don't like you, Sean, but you know, I think you're a good guy. And Bubba, it's the but you got to watch out for. Because the truth is always before the but never after.

[Sean]

Absolutely. How do you deal with disrespect? What's the. What's the approach there?

[John Taffer]

Oh, I disrespect them more than they disrespect me. You know, I think people who disrespect need to understand how it feels. And you've seen me do this. I hate it when employees Dignity is taken away. I despise that. Now I'll scream at people in Bar Rescue. It's a different world, obviously, but how dare you take the dignity away from an employee? So if they do that, I take their dignity away and I take it away in front of the employees and I say to them, how do you feel now that I did it to you? Sometimes that's a jolt. That can change the way they behave. You know, it's interesting. If I tell you to do this and do that and don't do this and don't do that, you might listen, you might not. But if I can change the way you think, I can't help but change what you do. That's why I'm so aggressive. I need to change the way they think, Sean. I need them to evaluate their own decisions, their own thought processes. I need them to not like themselves every once in a while. And, you know, that's when change and that's when greatness happens. It's a challenge for me, but I've been doing Bar Rescue 15 years on 283 episodes. It's unbelievable to me when I watch TV, how does a guy do this a hundred times? I don't understand how anybody could do it that long. When I look in their eyes, Sean, it's just me and them. It's like the first time I've ever done it. This person's in trouble and I'm like their last chance. And I take that really seriously, man. And the reason why I'm a maniac is I'm only there for four days. If you did a 60 day project in four days, you'd be a maniac too.

[Sean]

Yeah. You do it a lot in those four days. You're pretty much revamping their whole business, right?

[John Taffer]

Yeah. And them.

[Sean]

Yeah. I think. I think it's so effective because they tie that memory to an emotion. So like when you're screaming at them, they're never going to forget that. And it's like a visceral response, right?

[John Taffer]

Yes. And, you know, sometimes you appeal to their pride. Sometimes you appeal to fear. You know, sometimes you appeal to their fear of failure. What happens when this place closes? What are your neighbors going to say then? What are your kids going to say to you when you. When you failed you, the door is locked, the place is closed. What are they going to say to you then? Or it's the other way around. You know, think of how proud your kids will be of you when this place reopens. So you got to figure out where it is with each of them and back to that primal thing again with each other. You got to figure out with each person where is the right place to land? Is it fear? Is it pride? Is it just knowledge? Sometimes I say to them, you know, what is it? Are you ignorant or lazy? It's one of the two. I got to figure out which one it is. Yeah.

[Sean]

When it comes to fear, that, that's an interesting one because a lot of workplace environments, you know, the employees fear their boss. A lot of children fear their parents. What do you think of that? I feel like it's an older style approach. Right. What do you think of that?

[John Taffer]

Oh, yeah. I don't want my employees to fear me. I don't want that at all. I want them to fear failure, not each other. I want them to be prideful of success. That's what I'm focused on. Why are they failing and what can I do to jog them? So if making them scared of failure is going to make them fight harder for success, I'm in. If making them envision themselves as wonderful successes with their children and wife adoring them, if that's where they need to be, I'll put them there. Whatever gets them to move and become motivated, I have to do. But remember, these people have been failing a long time, so they're stuck in a pattern, Sean. That's why I sort of got to jolt them out of it, if you will. Quiet conversation won't get them there.

[Sean]

Do you see commonalities with all these failures? Is it mimic mindset? Is it the people around them? What do you think's the number one thing there?

[John Taffer]

Yeah, I'll tell you an interesting story, and I talk about this in my speeches. When I was shooting my 100. You're going to like this a lot. When I was shooting my 120th episode in Detroit, I walked up to the owner and I said, why are you failing? Now I ask every owner on bar rescue, why are they failing? Sometimes it makes the cut, Sean, sometimes it doesn't. So I asked this woman why she's failing. And she looked at me and she said, john, I'm failing because of the euro in Greece. This isn't suburban Detroit. Now there's a little bit of a Greek community there, but nothing that significant. And I asked her again, really, why Euro and Greece? I went back to my hotel room that night and I realized, holy. Can I curse? Holy shit. I just found a common denominator of failure. I had done 120 episodes. I had asked 120 owners, why they were failing. And not one time did they say, I'm failing because of me. Were the decisions that I made. This is powerful in every single case, Sean. They blame the government, the economy, the competition, their employees, everybody but themselves. So I go back to my room. I wrote my second book, my best seller. Don't BS yourself. Cut the excuses that are holding you back. And I realized, think about this. What is the definition of an excuse? I did something I shouldn't have. I got an excuse. I didn't do something I should have. I got an excuse. I fell short of my goals. I got an excuse, right? I acted like a fool. I got an excuse. I cuddle up in that excuse. Like a baby in the morning, I wake up. I blame the excuse. I have no reason to change. What if you woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror and said, I'm failing because of me, Then you would change, wouldn't you? If you say I'm failing because of the euro and Greece, you have no reason to change. That excuse changes everything. Excuses paralyze. You never do something because of an excuse. You only don't do something because of an excuse. So it paralyzes us. It freezes us. So I realize, okay, excuses are the common denominator of failure because they prevent change, they prevent growth, they prevent everything positive about us. They prevent you challenging yourself to be better, which is powerful, man. So I said, okay, what are the most powerful excuses that we use? Fear. I don't want to do that. I'm scared of that. Well, if you're scared, then you shouldn't be in business because you can't do risk management. You can't do anything and assess anything reasonably if you're scared. So that's BS Unless you're standing on a cliff, you really don't have anything to be scared of in business. And if you look at life, anything more than five years ago, you don't regret it anyway. So fear is bs. There's nothing if you look back on your life five years ago, Sean, that you really regret. You might have regretted it then, you don't regret it now. So let's stop being so scared of these things. The second one is scarcity. You know, I don't have the resources to do this. You tell that to Steven Jobs. Tell that to Gates. You know, that's just ridiculous. The next one is circumstance. Oh, I can't succeed in the circumstance. Look at Clarence Bird's eye. You know the story of Clarence Bird's eye? So he, he, he created frozen foods. He's up in Alaska fishing. He caught too many fish, so he hung him outside. It was 40 below zero the next day. He cooked the fish. He said, holy, this is delicious. I can freeze fish and cook it. Weeks later, he invented frozen foods. Bird's eye frozen foods. We've all heard of that brand problem. Nobody in America had a freezer. That didn't stop him. So circumstance can't be an excuse not to succeed. We're in whatever circumstance we're in, Sean, you know, affordability, pandemic, whatever the hell we're going, it is what it is. So we can't use that as an excuse. The next one I love is resources, you know, money. We didn't have the money to do that or so these are all the excuses that I identify that hold us back, you know, and, and when we eliminate those excuses from our lives and hold ourselves accountable in that mirror every morning, that's when magic happens. So, yes, the most powerful lesson in my life from bar rescue is that one, that excuse lesson, the second most powerful one, if I can go off for a moment, is time. It's time. I show up with no knowledge. I do recon after recon. I put the employees in vans in the park lot, you might know. And I designed the bar that night. So I have a little demographic report, a little psychographic report. I design it that night. Day two, while we're doing stress tests and, and training, I'm signing off on the wallpapers, the barstools, the technology. By the end of the second day, everything is ordered, the recipes are in the logos. At this, everything is done. So I do it in two days and I challenge my industry. What the hell takes you guys so long? Months to come in with a new menu. And time is money. So the power of time is a very big lesson for me in bar rescue.

[Sean]

Yeah, they've done studies on deadlines, and no matter how far back you set it, people always wait till the day before. Right. Time is a very fascinating concept. It is, it is.

[John Taffer]

And when we can manage it better, our lives can change.

[Sean]

Absolutely. And I love what you said about resources. My favorite stat on that is the number of self made millionaires. I think it's 88% of millionaires are self made. So. So when people use money as an excuse, I don't really align with that.

[John Taffer]

Yeah, One more story. Henry Ford sister's husband, name was John King. And Henry Ford fired John King because he didn't like him. He was a lazy bum and he says to his sister, I'm firing your husband. But here's the deal. I'm going to give him a truck and all the wood scraps at the end of the assembly line. Let him go make a living for himself. So he takes the wood scraps in the truck, he compresses them in a charcoal briquette briquettes and creates Kingsford charcoal briquettes. D a multi, multi millionaire.

[Sean]

Wow. St you know your history, man. I could tell you've done a lot. I love stories like that.

[John Taffer]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's impressive. What's next for you, man? I know season 10's wrapping up in the next couple months. You said you're taking a six week vacation. What's after that?

[John Taffer]

Oh, boy. You know, Taff's Brown butter Bourbon is the most exciting thing in my life now. I'm really excited about it. It's. I never thought I would be in the bourbon business. I'm walking through my restaurant in alpharett and after 283 episodes of Bar Recipe shot, I'm always looking for new ideas.

[Sean]

Right.

[John Taffer]

For drinks. So my cook was cooking brown butter. So I took the brown butter, poured it in a sous vide cooking bag, filled it with whiskey, put it in a, in a boiling water, excuse me for four hours, moved it into the walking, scooped the butter off the top, poured it through a coffee filter, and brown butter bourbon was born. So I put it in a cocktail in my Taffer's Tavern restaurants called the Campfire. We sell a thousand campfires a month. The most successful cocktail I've ever had. So we said we had to bottle it, so we did. And now we're in Nevada, Massachusetts, Georgia, and soon Florida. So I'm very focused on doing bottle signings and promoting and I love watching people taste it. It's so cool to have a product and think as I'm sitting home tonight, hundreds of people reading in my restaurants, drinking my bourbon, watching my television show. It's an incredibly rewarding and gratifying feeling. You know, I'm so appreciative for it all.

[Sean]

Yeah, I can't wait to try that. You said it's in a bottle. I'll send you a bottle. Awesome. Yeah. I love brown butter and bourbon. I'm not the biggest fan, but the two together, it might be enough for me to try it.

[John Taffer]

I bet you. Yeah. You got to send me a note after you do.

[Sean]

Okay, I will. Well, John, it's been an honor, man. We'll link everything below. Thanks for your time today. My pleasure.

[John Taffer]

Sean.

[Sean]

You're a great interviewer. A lot of fun, boy. I'll talk to you anytime, buddy. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

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