Larry Hagner: The Night I Realized I Was Becoming My Father | DSH #1743

Summary

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Digital Social Hour — "Larry Hagner: The Night I Realized I Was Becoming My Father" (DSH #1743)

Podcast: Digital Social Hour
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Larry Hagner (Host of "The Dad Edge," Author, Coach)
Date: January 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Digital Social Hour features a poignant and deeply honest conversation between Sean Kelly and Larry Hagner, founder of The Dad Edge and host of a long-running podcast on fatherhood, marriage, and men's personal development. Larry shares his tumultuous upbringing, the generational cycles of fatherhood and trauma he’s worked to break, and the pivotal moment he realized he needed to become a student of “good dad” skills. This episode is rich with raw stories, actionable insights on parenting and relationships, and hopeful advice for men seeking connection, purpose, and personal growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Larry’s Upbringing and Fatherhood Journey

• Early Childhood Turmoil ([00:51]–[10:00])

  • Larry details his parents’ divorce and absence of his biological father: "I was one. And then I was about— I was four when I kind of realized I didn't have a dad." ([01:22])
  • His mother’s string of marriages/relationships, adoption by his first stepfather, and exposure to domestic abuse: "There was a lot of fighting, there was a lot of beatings." ([03:08])
  • Discovery of his biological father at age 12 by chance: “I walk right up to her, 12 years old, I'm like, hey, what's your name?... I think your husband is my dad.” ([05:14])

• Repeated Loss and the Impact on Self-Esteem

  • After briefly reconnecting with his biological father, the relationship falls apart again, causing Larry to “give up” and suffer in adolescence: “As a kid, I just kind of gave up. I gained a bunch of weight. I failed the 8th grade... I think at one point I was like, man, I'm done with fathers.” ([06:40])

• Chance Reunion and Long-Term Healing

  • As an adult, Larry runs into his biological father at Starbucks after 18 years: "I look up, and this guy comes walking in, and it's my dad. Hadn't seen him since I was 12." ([07:57])
  • They reconcile and rebuild a relationship, finally addressing the pain and reasons for the past: “It was the worst decision I ever made... I actually thought when I signed over parental rights to your adopted father, I was giving you a better shot.” ([10:11])

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2. The Birth of The Dad Edge Movement

• Turning Point — Breaking the Cycle ([16:23]–[21:26])
  • Larry confesses to failing his own promises as a new husband and father, including an emotional story about losing his temper with his 4-year-old son: “I swatted him on his butt and unfortunately he face planted...he literally just went like this, like, don't hurt me.” ([18:08])
  • "That was it. And even my wife...was like, seriously? Larry, he's four." ([18:47])
  • Out of pain and regret, he creates the “Good Dad Project” Facebook page: "That was like the surrender of the ego. What if I actually learned marriage? What if I learned communication? What if I even learned patience?" ([19:24])
  • The movement grows organically, leading to a podcast and a full-time career: “Over the past 10 years, I've gotten a front row seat to, I think, one of the best educations I've ever had.” ([21:07])

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3. Fatherhood, Marriage, and Personal Growth

• The Role of Dads and the Crisis of Fatherlessness ([22:14]–[25:11])

  • Larry highlights dire statistics: “I mean, I think it's like 82% of teenage pregnancies happen from fatherless homes. 92% of incarcerated individuals...” ([22:19])
  • Emphasizes collaborative, not fear-based, parenting: “I'm more of a fan of let's have a conversation around this and let's learn from it. Versus rule with fear.” ([23:47])

• Host Sean’s Parallel Story

  • Sean opens up about his own difficult upbringing—absent father after divorce, struggles for closure and reconciling with the past ([13:24-13:44]; [14:16-14:53]).

• Common Father Wounds and The Drive to Break Cycles

  • Both men discuss how their upbringings shaped their adulthood and relationships. “If you grew up the way you did, the way I did, I think it becomes insanely important ... it's almost like, man, I can't mess this up.” ([34:47])

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4. Learning Relationship & Parenting Skills

• Larry’s Four Core Elements for a Great Marriage: ([36:32]–[37:53])

  • Self-care ("Can't be my best for somebody else unless I'm my best")
  • Partnership (chores, roles, management)
  • Friendship ("You gotta be friends with your spouse")
  • Intimacy ("The physical part of your relationship… the things you share with nobody else")

• The Drift and How to Combat It ([37:54]–[41:46])

  • The risk of couples getting stuck in "partnership" (logistics) at the expense of friendship and intimacy.
  • The importance of male community and “raising your hand” to seek help: “The hardest thing that I've seen is the asking for the help, actually raising your hand and being like, I don't have this one figured out.” ([30:16])
  • “I think society kind of puts us in this box—if you don’t know how to be a dad or you’re struggling with it, well, you’re weak.” ([30:26])

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5. Skill-Building — Communication & Conflict Resolution

• The Conflict Resolution “Cube” Model ([46:56]–[51:47])

  • Observations: “Observations are not opinions. She has to see it the way I do, and I have to see it the way she does.”
  • Differentiating thoughts (“A sentence”) and feelings (“A word”): “A feeling is one word.”
  • Stating wants: “You have to go three layers deep of why you want it... When we are intimate, we're in lockstep, we communicate better, we're better parents.”
  • "Most people, when they argue, we are fighting for what we don't want anymore... We never usually ever say what we want." ([50:46])

• Host-Guest Relatability — Attachment Styles

  • Larry and Sean discuss avoidant and secure attachment styles, and the work needed to feel secure in relationships: “She would always have to chase me down to talk...I'm secure now. That took a ton of work.” ([45:30]–[45:47])

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6. Fatherhood in the Digital Age

• On Technology & Parenting ([25:27]–[28:13])
  • Larry introduces tools like “bark phones” for monitoring kids online: “I get alerts if there's anything bad happening. So like, text messages, anything on the Internet that he's searching.”
  • Talks openly about the importance of being a proactive parent with digital exposure: “You give them a window to the world and be like, go, have fun. I don't think that's being a helicopter parent. I think that's the same thing as hey, put your seat belt on.” ([26:18])

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7. The Loneliness Epidemic for Men

• The Lone Wolf & Rusty Relationships ([28:25]–[31:17])
  • Larry: “Most men have rusty relationships. There’s not a whole lot of depth... We don’t have a place where we can be like ‘Hey, man, I'm really struggling communicating with my wife.’”
  • The importance of building community and deeper friendships, especially for men who otherwise default to surface-level connections.

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8. Building Legacy and the Importance of Being Present

• The Trap of Overwork
  • "Don't come home with a wallet full of money in a house full of strangers." ([32:31])
  • Larry prioritizes his family even at the cost of business: “Business...just has to suffer. To quote the Godfather.” ([32:31])
• Modeling Functional Relationships
  • "I think one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids...is to see a functional relationship in action." ([44:19])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Breaking the Cycle:
  “The definition of hell is meeting the man you could have become when you’re on your deathbed.”—Larry [34:58]
• On Fatherhood:
  "Dads really make an impact." —Larry [22:41]
• On Conflict Resolution:
  “Most people, when they argue, we are fighting for what we don’t want anymore. But we never usually ever say what we want.”—Larry [50:46]
• On Learning Fatherhood:
  “That was like the surrender of the ego. I’m done trying to wing this. What if I actually learned marriage?” —Larry [19:24]
• On Technology:
  “You give them a window to the world and be like, go, have fun. I don't think that's being a helicopter parent. I think that's the same thing as hey, put your seat belt on.” —Larry [26:18]
• On Community:
  “One of the hardest things for a man to do is ... raise your hand and say, I'd really like some help.” —Larry [41:03]
• On Being Present:
  “Don't come home with a wallet full of money in a house full of strangers.” —Larry [32:31]
• On Fixing the Drift:
  “The book talks about how to disrupt that, and to really get into your marriage, to really get involved with your kids… but it starts with us first.” —Larry [40:46]
• Funny Childhood Moment:
  “My 10-year-old friend...traded his bike for a Playboy.” —Larry [27:40]

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Important Timestamps

• Larry’s Childhood Story: [00:51]–[10:00]
• Reconnecting with Biological Father: [07:57]–[11:45]
• The “Night I Realized I Was Becoming My Father” Story: [16:23]–[19:24]
• Birth of Good Dad Project/Dad Edge: [19:24]–[21:26]
• Fatherless Crisis Stats & Effects: [22:14]–[22:41]
• Parenting Approach — Collaboration vs. Fear: [23:20]
• Managing Kids and Technology: [25:27]–[28:13]
• Loneliness and Men’s Friendships: [28:25]–[31:17]
• Marriage & Relationship Skillset: [36:32]–[41:03]
• Conflict Resolution Model Explained: [46:56]–[51:47]
• Attachment Styles and Personal Growth: [45:20]–[45:47]
• Resources and Book Details: [52:33]–[54:01]

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Resources & Further Learning

• Larry’s Book: Available at thedadedge.com/legendarybook (includes two free courses if purchased direct)
• Men’s Communities: Learn more or apply at thedadedge.com/mastermind
• Conflict Resolution (The “Cube”): More info at ClearLeadership.com

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Tone & Style

The conversation is open, unfiltered, and disarmingly honest. Both Sean and Larry are candid about their pain, shortcomings, and aspirations to build better futures, creating a hopeful and relatable atmosphere for anyone struggling with similar issues.

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking the heart of the episode’s content—whether as parents, partners, or individuals grappling with their own generational stories.

Transcript

[A]

I just typed out the Good dad project. That was it. And that was, like, the surrender of the ego. That was like, I'm done trying to wing this. I'm done trying to, like, figure this out as I go. What if I learned it? What if I actually learned marriage? What if I learned communication? What if I learned connection? What if I even learned patience? Can I learn those things? Because anything that I think we're ever good at, anything, we have to learn it.

[B]

Okay, guys, got Larry here from St. Louis. We're going to talk about fatherhood today. I'm really excited about this one. It's a pretty deep topic for me, and I know it is for you. You based your whole show and life around it now. So thanks for hopping on, man.

[A]

Thanks for having me. This is an honor.

[B]

Yeah. You're 1400 episodes in. That's incredible. And it's all around fatherhood, all around.

[A]

Fatherhood, marriage, men's work, you know, pretty much all that.

[B]

Yeah. So growing up, I know your parents got split, right?

[A]

My story is kind of odd, and I'm happy to share it if you want me to go for it. Yeah. So I was. My mom and biological father were married in 71. They got married really young, 21 years old. They had me four years later in 1975. And then about nine months later, they got divorced. And I got to be honest with you, Sean, I don't know much about their divorce. All I know is it was bad. And then as soon as, like, he was gone, like, I. I have no recollection of my dad.

[B]

You were four?

[A]

No, I was one. And then I was about. I was four when I kind of realized I didn't have a dad.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So it was just me and my mom, but. But here's the funny story. I was in preschool, kindergarten age. That's kind of when the audio video kind of comes on. And I remember, like, dads coming to pick up my friends. So I knew what a dad was like. Some dads wore suits and some dads wore jeans, and I knew I didn't have one, but it didn't really bother me because I thought, actually, moms go out and find dads, so. And my mom hadn't found my dad yet. So I'll never forget this one time was five, and my mom told me. She was like, hey, I'm gonna have a friend over for dinner tonight, and I'm really excited for you to meet him. I've known him for a little bit, and I'm really excited for you to meet him and we work together. So like that was basically my mom telling me, like, I've been dating somebody I work with, it's time for you to meet. And dude, my thought right away was, oh my gosh, that's the dad. She found the dad. So this guy comes walking in my house. I'll never forget it. I'm like five years old, like 45 years ago. He's wearing a trench coat, three piece suit, double Windsor tie, mustache, feathered hair, 1979, whole nine yards.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the first question I asked this guy when I shook his hand was, are you going to be my dad? Right. And he laughs pretty much like that too. And I think my mom actually like gasped and. But they got married six months later.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I think my mom kind of took that as a sign. It's kind of like that Jerry Maguire movie, you know, like where the kid comes up and hugs Tom Cruise and she's like, oh my gosh, like, I probably should marry this guy. And that's what she did. I think she probably married him because she. The idea was good and man, I was so happy. I remember that first year, like eating dinner together and we, we went on vacation together. And then like after about a year, things got really bad. He was a big drinker, my mom was a big drinker. There was a lot of blow ups, there was a lot of fighting, there was a lot of beatings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I remember one time when I was six years old, I'll never forget this. I heard screaming in the middle of the night. I ran into my mom and dad's bedroom and I. What I saw was my dad on top of my mom, holding her down. My mom just screaming, jeez. And nothing sexual or anything like that, but just like they were fighting. And I remember going over and trying to peel his hands off of her. Like I was punching his hands and everything, couldn't get him off. He like picked me up, drug me in my room, threw me over my bed, slammed the door. I ran out again, tried to get him off her. He did it again. And then finally, I guess the neighbors heard us and called the cops. And that was one of three or four times that cops came to my house. But it was really messy and terrible. By the time I was 10, they got divorced. And right around that age I was like, wait a second. This guy came into my life at 5 and I actually have the same last name he does. So I'm adopted by him legally. And my mom then told me, she's like, well, you, you Actually have another dad out there. Like, I was married before. I had no idea.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And not that she was keeping it from me. I think she was just more or less like, I need to tell him when he's ready type of thing. And a couple years pass by, she dates. Same type of guy is very toxic, very abusive. Well, here's the crazy thing. I'm 12 years old, I go to a rec center with my friend to play basketball. And I knew my dad's name. That was all I knew. And I knew kind of what he looked like from pitchers. And I heard, I went to go get my basketball and the guy behind the counter said, here comes. I'm not going to say his last name, but here comes Mrs. So and so with the hockey payment, because my dad played hockey up there, so. And I was like, I'm sorry, what name did you say? And he said it. And I go, you said her husband plays hockey up here? And he said, yeah. And he goes, well, what's his name? And my dad's name is mine, Larry. And I go, oh my gosh, that's my dad's name. Like, that's my dad's name. I told my best friend who was with me, I was like, I think that lady's married to my dad. So she hands over the check, I like tap her on the shoulder. I walk right up to her, 12 years old, I'm like, hey, what's your name? And she looked at me like I was crazy. Like she told me, I said, are you married to a guy named Larry? And she said, yeah. And I go, I think your husband is my dad, like 12 years old. And she was like, sweetheart, are you Larry? And I said, so she knew about me? And I said, yeah. And she goes, would you like to talk to your dad? And I was like, I would love to talk to my dad.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so we went around the corner, payphone, put a quarter in. She's like, hey, I'm up here at the rec center. I just ran into your 12 year old son, he'd like to talk to you. And just handed the phone right over. And Sean, I got to be honest, I don't remember what we said. I just remember the sound of his voice and he just sounded so humbled and just shocked. But we ended up meeting and then we ended up having this relationship. He only lived three miles from us. I had no idea. So he was married to this woman. I had a two year old half brother. She was pregnant at the time and we had like six months together. And he came to, like, all my Little League games. Like, everything was awesome. Like, I saw him all the time. And then after. Towards the end, I didn't see him as much, and I felt like something was just kind of off or odd. So I remember calling him 12 years old, and I'm like, hey, you know, is everything okay? Like, I just feel like I don't. We don't see each other that much. We're not talking as much. I don't remember what words were said. I just remember that was the end of our relationship. Again.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And that one hit me hard, because.

[B]

You got a taste of it.

[A]

Yeah. And that one, I kind of. Just to be honest, like, as a kid, I just kind of gave up. I gained a bunch of weight. I failed the 8th grade. I had to do 8th grade twice. Ended up going to high school, went on to college. My mom continued to date. Got married one more time when I was 18, but it was, like, disastrous. I think, at one point in time, no kidding around, I think I was 18. Like, I just. There was so many men that kind of came through. Not that my mom was promiscuous or anything like that. I'm not saying that. But she dated, you know, she was trying to find a husband, I think. But it was always, like, these toxic dudes. And I think at one point I was like, man, I'm done with fathers. Like, I'm just done and. And fast forward to where I'm about your age. I'm about 30, married two years, first son on the way. I'm in a Starbucks. Hadn't seen my dad for 18 years. And I'm in there for a meeting, and I look up, and this guy comes walking in, and it's my dad. Hadn't seen him since I was 12. And I remember one of the friends that I was with, one of the. I worked with a group of people, and one of the. One of the women on my sales team, we were friends also. She. She knew this whole story. And she looked at me, she's like, are you okay? Like, you just look like you've seen a ghost? And I was like. I was like, you're not gonna believe this. I was like, my dad just walked in here, and she's like, what? Like the one you haven't seen since you were 12? And I was like, yeah. And she goes, where? And I go, right over there. She's like, oh, my gosh. Like, what are you gonna say? What are you gonna do? And I was like, I'm not gonna say A word to him. She's like, wait a second. You're let your dad walk out of here, you're not gonna say a word to him? I was like, yeah, that's pretty much the plan. Yeah, I'm not going to do anything. So she just got up, didn't say a word, Just got up and just sat at his table. And they started talking. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, what is about to happen? And I could read his lips. And I heard. I saw him say, where is he? And he looked all around, and we met, our eyes met. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, what is about to happen? And he got up and he sat next to me. He's like, hey. He's like, my gosh. Like, how are you? Like, are you married or you have kids? And I'm like, And I wasn't nice, but I wasn't a jerk. I was kind of in between. I was like, I'm fine. How are you? Yes, I'm married. I have one on the way. And I was just kind of like that. He's like, we, you know, we should. We should get together. And I was like. Kind of like. Was like, I'll tell you what, I slid my business card over, because at the time, it was 2005. I said, if you want to meet, you can contact me. And I didn't hear from him for, like, three days. I was like, well, I thought that was the way it was going to go down. And then I got this email from him, and it was long, and the guy just poured his heart out, and he told me that he regretted everything. If I'd give him another chance, he would love it. That was 20 years ago, and we still have a relationship to this day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And we live 20 minutes from each other. My boys know him as Grandma and Grandpa. He's still married to the same woman. Has been for 47 years. I have two younger half brothers. I make my dad sound like a bum. He's not. He's a very successful entrepreneur, A good family man. A good man just made bad decisions. But that was. That was my upbringing.

[B]

Wow, what a story. You're such a good storyteller. By the way, did you find out why he left, like, after the six months? Why he kind of stopped responding to you?

[A]

Yeah, we. After. We kind of started our relationship, I guess, over again at 30. You know, I just was like, I asked him out to dinner one night, and I think he knew, you know, a conversation was coming. And I just sat down we small talked for a while, and he looked at me and he goes, why don't you tell me why we're here? And I said, okay. I said, I have a lot of questions. He goes, I know. What do you got? He's like, I'm an open book. I'll tell you whatever you want to know. And I just said, I want to talk about this one time, and then we don't have to talk about it again. I said, but what the hell, man? Like, you left when I was a kid, twice. Like, why? And he took a deep breath, and he was like, it's the worst decision I ever made. Both, like. He said, the divorce between me and your mom was so bad. He goes, I actually thought when I signed over parental rights to your adopted father, I was actually giving you a better shot. He goes, because that killed me to do that. He goes, but I thought I was actually doing something very selfless. He goes, it was also, you know, not the bravest thing I ever did either. I have ownership in that, too. I. I could have fought harder. I didn't. He goes, and then when you were 12. He goes, it became so complicated, and it became very difficult between me and your mom, and it was causing animosity and it was causing a lot of tension just in general. He goes, and I thought I was doing this most selfless thing possible, and that is protecting my family and maybe not confusing you. Worst decision I made. And he goes, so that's it. He goes, and all I can say is, I'm. I'm so sorry, and if I had to do all over again, I would do things different, but I can't. And he apologized, we cried, we hugged, and that was it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Forgiveness.

[B]

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[A]

You know, a lot of people. That's a good point. I think a lot of people, you know, are like, man, that's, that's like rough, like how, you know, growing up like that. And I was like, you know, it was. I was like. But I don't regret it. Like, I'm very thankful for it. Like, none of this would have happened if none of that happened at the same time. Carrying a burden, like, that's got to be tough.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I'd imagine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it makes me wonder because the divorce rate's so high these days. It's crazy, all these fathers just living with similar situations right in their head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I grew up divorced. It was so rough that my dad, when it happened, he didn't see me for a year. He just disappeared for a year. I didn't know if I'd ever see him again, honestly.

[A]

And do you still have a relationship to him?

[B]

He recently passed, but, yeah, we. We mended.

[A]

You mended?

[B]

Yeah, I was like fifth grade when that happened.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I didn't see him till, I think, seventh grade then. I used to see him on weekends. But yeah, that divorce was rough for him.

[A]

I can't imagine. Well, that year for you probably had.

[B]

To be really rough too. Yeah, I was doing, like, counseling and stuff. It was. It was crazy. But now that's. That's common these days, divorces, it's like, that's not even uncommon anymore.

[A]

You were in fifth grade, so you were 10.

[B]

I was 10.

[A]

So that was the same age that my dad like. And I. I've never seen him since my, my.

[B]

Oh, the one that adopted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. And he'.

[A]

Well, legally, yeah. But he passed away about 10 years ago.

[B]

Did you feel like you wanted some closure there.

[A]

Man? That's a good. I don't know if I've ever been asked that, I guess, in a way. Yeah. You know, because it was. He. I still. He was my dad. Like, that's who I called dad. That's who I knew his dad growing up and had to do over again. Yeah, I would have loved to have some sort of closure. Like he died unexpectedly of a heart attack. Like, I think at like 60 years old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Pretty young.

[B]

That is pretty young. You Never know these days.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

That's why, for me, it's really, like, important to leave with some closure, even if it's not positive, just to, like, talk to. I try not to have any enemies, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just don't want to be living with. I saw what happened with my dad, so he grew up in a very, like, abusive household, and he never made up with his parents. So, like, that just ate at him all the time.

[A]

I'm sure it did.

[B]

And with me, he, like, loved me so much, but he didn't know how to show it, if that makes sense.

[A]

Makes total sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I didn't know if he loved me growing up, to be honest, because he just didn't know how to show it.

[A]

I think there's a lot of guys out there like that, you know, it's just. It's kind of like we call it. It's like the. It's like this. This gap, like this gorge. Right. And like, where men usually are and where they want to go, and they just. Sometimes it's just that gap in that skill of how to get there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. It's tough for us.

[B]

Yeah. I'm sure. Even with you, when you started dating, like, just that dynamic affected how you treated your wife, right?

[A]

Well, it was. I dated, like, I got into a bunch of toxic relationships, you know, and there were some good ones, too. But, like, it was almost like, I think if you're kind of brought up that way, you want to go to where you're familiar, you know, even if it. Even if it's not good. And like, I was. I gravitated towards a lot of not so hard relationships. But luckily, like, my wife, man, we've. We've known each other for almost 30 years and been married for 22, four boys. And she's my best friend. She's my ride or die. Like, it's crazy. The more time we're together, the more we actually feel like we're in love with each other. Wow. But it's also like, I mean, I get to do this work, so, like, we get to, you know, I get to know the. Know how, too, which is good.

[B]

That's incredible. Yeah. Because you hear the opposite with people in long relationships that the fire dies out, you know? But you're not having any issues with that?

[A]

No, we actually. I mean, we. Don't get me wrong, the first half of our marriage was not good, which is the whole reason I started this. I was. When I got married, I made three promises to myself, and I'll share the story too of how it even got started. I'm going to be a good husband, good communicator, good husband. I'm going to be a good dad. And I'm never going to hit my kids out of anger because I was hit a lot and I broke all three of those promises in that first 10 years. And the whole reason dad Edge even got started was because I have, I have a 19 year old, 17 year old, 11 and 9. And my 17 year old was 4. And I'll never forget this night. And this is, this is. I've told this story so many times and it still kills me. My son. One night we were packing to move and I had also, I was a medical device sales at the time. I lost my number one customer that day that made up like 60% of my territory revenue. So a ton of my paycheck was wrapped up into this. One customer lost that customer, thought I was gonna be fired. We were getting ready to move and I was like really stressed out. My wife was a stay at home mom packing up our house and I was packing up the kids playroom. My 4 year old comes down and I was about ready to take a break and I said, hey. I said I just packed up all this, all these toys. I was like, there's some toys over here. I was like, but please don't unpack anything. I'll be back, you know, in about 20 minutes. I don't know why I thought a four year old would listen to that. I mean I've been a dad for almost 20 years and I look back on that and be like, you're dumb, like you're clueless. So I come back and literally almost every toy that I packed was just scattered about and I just reacted and I turned him around, I swatted him on his butt and unfortunately he face planted, whoa. He hit the ground. And. The thing that kills me and I, I've told this story for 13 years, but it kills me every time because as soon as I did it, I knew exactly what I did. And I was like, oh my God, what I just do. And I went to go pick him up and I was like, oh my gosh, are you all right? And he turned over and he saw me coming at him and he literally just went like this, like, don't hurt me. And in that moment like really what I saw was myself because there were so many men that came in and out of my life that were father figures that had a heavy hand and I saw that look of fear in his Eyes. And that was it. And even my wife, who is one of the most amazing, most forgiving people I've ever met, was like. She was like, seriously? She's like, Larry, he's. He's 4. He's 4. And it was that night I went into my office, I was crying, open up my laptop, and I got on Facebook. Because that's what you do as an adult when you have that moment. You just go on social media and you just scroll and you try to forget about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I saw this button in the left hand corner. It said, create a page. And this is 2012. So it's kind of. Before all this got big. And I was like. So I clicked that button, and this thing pops up, says, what do you want to name your page? I just typed out the Good dad project. That was it. And that was like the surrender of the ego. That was like, I'm done trying to wing this. I'm done trying to, like, figure this out as I go. What if I learned it? What if I actually learned marriage? What if I learned communication? What if I learned connection? What if I even learned patience? Like, can I learn those things? Because anything that I think we're ever good at, anything, we have to learn it. And as soon as I did that, I started. I never did it for a following. I started just researching things, and I just put it on that page. I use that page just as more or less a journal, you know, I said, I'm going to go out and learn one new thing every day. And I did. And then all of a sudden, it just started getting a following. And I haven't, you know, never really intended it to be that. Then I started being asked to speak, and I was like, I'll never Forget, it was 350 women who asked me to speak at this church. Yeah, I was like, 350. Like, I was. I was like, what do y' all want me to talk about? Like, when they. When they hired me, they're like, we want you to talk about what it means to be a good dad. And I was like, you got the wrong guy. I'm not. I'm not a good dad. I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah. They're like, no, no. That's actually what we like about it. You're so authentic. Like, you just tear yourself down publicly on what you're learning. So I did that. And then it 2015, I started the podcast. I was just like, I really want to interview people and learn from people on their expertise. And over the past 10 years, I've gotten a front row seat to, I think, one of the best educations I've ever had. And five years ago, I went full time with this and I left a very lucrative job and I was, I was the national sales director for a medical device company making a lot. And I walked to do this full time. And I wish I would have done it two years sooner, actually. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

So you left a job that was paying way more to do this.

[A]

Yeah, at the time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, at the time.

[B]

Wow. I mean, it's, it's such a major issue now, right? You're, you're trying to solve something really massive.

[A]

Well, the thing is, is that I, I have a heart for dads. I have a huge heart for dads because I know how badly we struggle and I know how badly we struggle that we don't even say out loud. And I also know the other side of it and as well as you do what it's like to be on the receiving end of a family that doesn't really have, you know, the structure, the support, you know, and the good things that happen in a family that should. And I think if more people had more education around these topics that we teach, I, I honestly believe my, the, the world would change overnight. I really do. I think dads have that much power, you know, and in a good way.

[B]

Yeah. I mean the numbers don't lie on, on fatherless households. You've seen those studies. Yeah, it's really alarming.

[A]

They're, they're so bad. I mean, it's. All you have to do is google fatherless environment, fatherless homes and the percentage, I mean, I think it's like 82% of teenage pregnancies happen from father's homes. 92% of incarcerated individuals are come from files. It's, it's really bad. The dads make up. You know, dads really make an impact.

[B]

Yeah. When it comes to parenting, are you like collaborative with the children? Do you want to rule by fear? Like, what's the approach that you've seen work for your four kids?

[A]

I mean, I like to, I like to hit them still as much as I can. Actually, I joke with my 17 year old now because he's. Now, he's been the starting center for his high school football team and he is an absolute beast. And he outweighs me by about £40 and he could have his way with me anytime he wants. But no, it's, it's definitely, I would say, I would say 80% of it, especially my older guys, my 17, 19 year old. It's. It's really collaborative. Not fear.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't think anymore at all. There are some times where you have to have really direct conversations. Of course. But not, not fear. And especially with my little guys, I don't, I don't rule with fear anymore. I mean, there are times I think that you have to pull a lever, but it's minimal. Like minimal. Minimal. Minimal pulling a lever meaning like, hey, we need to have a serious conversation. There are serious consequences for what you did. Right. That kind of thing. But I'm more of a fan of let's have a conversation around this and let's learn from it. Versus rule with fear.

[B]

I love that. Yeah. I would say my house and my mom watches every episode so she'll see this. But it was, I'll just call it what it was. It was a fear based house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was scared of getting, you know, punished.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And yelled at and stuff like that.

[A]

Can I ask you a question about that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did that. When you grew up in a house like that, did you, did you feel safe to tell your parents like bad news or no?

[B]

Yeah. I would hide it and honestly, I would rebel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Behind the scenes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It would make me want to cause more trouble.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. I think if it was more collaborative, I, I wouldn't have been. I was a bit of a troublemaker growing up, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it does have to do with the environment I grew up in and just not having a father figure too.

[A]

See, there you go. It's like right with the stats, you know, it's like I really think the dad's like, really. And not to take anything away from moms, but dads I think really provide a ton.

[B]

Well, I had like confidence issues, identity issues. Just like being a man, I never felt like, like a guy, if that makes sense.

[A]

Total.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes total sense.

[B]

I felt pretty soft.

[A]

I did too. I think that's why I like ate my feelings away. You know, I gained a bunch of weight. But yeah, it's like, I think without that, like, I think young boys especially, especially in that age range of like 9 to 12, especially like as they get it, get through puberty. Because they're not necessarily a boy yet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not necessarily a man yet. And things are, it's confusing. There's a lot of things that happen.

[B]

In those few years, especially these days with phones and just the access to information and ideas being put into these young kids heads.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

It's. It's the wild west out there.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

I'm sure you didn't give phones to your kids till they were a certain age, right?

[A]

No. Yeah. So like I'm not the most popular dad when it comes to that one. Yeah, we, we recently, I think my, they were 14. My two older ones, my 12 year old does have a phone, but it's, it's, it's called a bark phone. So he, yeah, bark phone. It's a bark phone is. It's, it's very limited on what he can do. And I get alerts if there's anything bad happening. So like text messages, anything on the Internet that he's searching. Email, like literally anything. It's actually quite entertaining.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you get to kind of see through text messages. You get a real flavor for their friends.

[B]

That is very interesting. So some people would, would see this clip and say that's like a bit of a helicopter parent. I'm sure you've been called that.

[A]

I haven't been called that, but here's my belief. With, with social, with, with any device that accesses the Internet. I mean, we wear seat belts when we get in the car. We have our kids put on a helmet when they're on a bike. Right. Or on a skateboard or scooter. You give them a window to the world and be like, go, have fun. I don't think that's being a helicopter parent. I think that's the same thing as hey, put your seat belt on. And I think, because here's the thing, boys now see porn at 8 years old.

[B]

That's the average on Instagram.

[A]

It's crazy. It's everywhere, right? So like, I want to know when these. I want to be proactive with every conversation and everything that they're going to see or experience. And I want to, I want to be in front of that versus behind it. I just had a conversation with my 12 year old right before I came here actually. And we were having the talk and he asked me, he goes, I was like, he's like, why do we talk about this? And I go, do you not want to talk about it? He goes, no, no. He goes, I do. He goes, but sometimes it's weird. I would go, yeah, of course it's weird. I was like, guess what? It's weird for me too. I was like, but here's the thing. You're either going to learn from me, you're either going to learn from the Internet or your friends. And out of those three things, I'd rather you just Learn it from me, wouldn't you? And he goes, yeah, I think I would.

[B]

I love that. Yeah. Eight is young, though. I can't believe that.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God, it's nuts, man.

[B]

I feel like it used to be like 15, 16.

[A]

Yeah. And we had to like, I mean, I'm older than you, so like, I'll never forget, like magazine dude. I had. I had a 10 year old friend of mine trade his bike for a Playboy.

[B]

What?

[A]

And we were like, what are you gonna tell your parents when you get home with no bike? So, I don't know, I'll figure it out.

[B]

I was like, damn. They were that expensive, the magazines?

[A]

No, he just, he buddy of his, like, one of his friend, One of our friends, grabbed one from his dad's stash and he's like, here, I'll give you this if you give me your bike. It was like a mongoose, like, it was a nice bike. And he handed it over. I was like, oh, my gosh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's nuts.

[B]

But, yeah, these days you just be scrolling on any social media platform. It's pretty much porn. Yeah, it's nuts everywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the average kid, I don't think can control themselves.

[A]

No, no, not at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there's a lot of grown men that can't control facts.

[B]

I did see you talk about the loneliness problem too. I wanted to cover that. 70 of men are lonely.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So we call that the lone wolf. Right, Men. So I don't know if you've ever. If you've ever interviewed Steven Mansfield or. Nobody is. He wrote a book called Mansfield's Book of Manly Men. And if there's anybody, he's about, I guess about 60 years old. And he's been doing men's work for a long time, but he talks about how grown men, it's. It's kind of this stage where we graduate college, you know, we get a job, and then we get engaged, we get married, and then suddenly, like, our friends, like our social circle kind of goes away physically. We're surrounded by people all day long. But what Mansfield says in his book is most men have rusty relationships. And when I had him on my podcast, I was like, what do you mean by that? He's like, well, there's really. No, there's not a whole lot of depth. He goes. If you think about it, you know, we go to. If you're hanging out with your college buddies, you know, when you're older, you're talking about college probably, or you're talking about politics or you're talking about sports or whatever. Very rarely do men have a place where they can be like, you know, hey, man, like, I'm really struggling, like, communicating my wife, or I'm really struggling with, like, intimacy with my wife. Like, we're just, we're just like two ships that are just spinning in different orbits, you know, we don't have conversations like that. Like, we talk. Every conversation we have can be answered with, fine, good, Busy, you know, that's it. How are the kids? Oh, they're busy. How's work? Oh, it's crazy busy, you know. How are you? Oh, I'm fine. How's your wife? Oh, she's good. And then we kind of move on to just the more shallow things. Yeah, a lot of guys out there. What, what I have noticed from 10 years of doing this work and coaching men for that long is men really want to have deeper conversations. You know, they want to be better. They want to have information that's going to make their families better, it's going to make their, their lives better.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think they want to, but they just don't know how to. Right.

[A]

The hardest thing that I've seen is the asking for the help, actually raising your hand and being like, I don't have this one figured out. Because I think society kind of puts us in this box of like, if you don't know how to be a dad or you're struggling with it, well, you're weak. And if you don't know how to be married or you know how to be a husband, well, then you just don't know women or you don't know this. It's just, it's all these labels. And the funny thing is, is, you know, we just talked to Jake Shields out here, right? The funny thing about that is, like, that guy has been doing MMA for years. Right. I mean, can you imagine, like, if Jake Shields got in the ring with somebody and never did any training, like, ever, he'd get pummeled. Right. But that's what happens to us when we get married. Like, we have all this different information and all this different education. Like, I have a four year degree in sports med, but I didn't know how to communicate with my wife until you start to learn these things. So the good news about all of this though, is they're all skills and we can all learn them. But yeah, the, the network of men is lonely.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. And that's what you've built a community, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's A. Is it online? Do you do meetups? How does that work?

[A]

So we. We've had a community now for nine years, and we have two different ones. We have one for career guys, so it's called the Alliance. And then we have what's called the. The dad Edge business boardroom. That's for our business owners. What we found was, is that we separated those two because we found that the business owners, as you know, there's a lot of emotion, there's a lot of physical. There's a lot of mental energy that goes into building a business, meeting people, leading customers. I'm not saying it's better or worse than a career. It's just you. Most men feel the heaviness of being a business owner, and then what usually happens is they're out there building a business. They come home and there's a lot more going on. Right. There's a lot more things that they have to handle. They don't want to leave their marriage on the table. They don't want to leave the connection with their kids on the table. The same thing with a career guy. But usually what we have found is business owners are just, quite frankly, stretched more thin than. Than career guys. So that's why we separated.

[B]

I agree. I mean, they're working 18 hours a day.

[A]

Yeah, right? Tons.

[B]

I had on a billionaire, and I asked like, do you even go to your kids sports games? He's like, no.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I was thinking like, damn. Is that because you need to be somewhat present for your kids? Right.

[A]

My thing is, is don't come home with a wallet full of money in a house full of strangers. You know, some. Sometimes business just has to suffer. To quote the Godfather. Right? Yeah, it really does. I mean, truth be told, I know we rescheduled this show because I didn't want to miss one of my kids things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there are just some times, and I got to be honest, like, I was like, I hate to pass up this opportunity to go on, you know, this podcast with you. At the same time, I. I'm not going to miss this.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, and I'm. And then business and this. If this doesn't get rescheduled, it's just going to have to suffer. I'm not going to give that up. So I think that, that, that needs to be a priority.

[B]

A core memory for me is at my soccer games. Usually I. Maybe my mom would be there, but my dad was never there, really. You know what I mean? So that. That just, like, sticks out to me. And then the one Time he did go, he had a seizure at one of my soccer games, so they had to cancel the whole. The whole game.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah. So that's just like a memory of mine, you know? Yeah, he. He struggled with some drug stuff and alcoholism. It was. It was rough. He had a lot of demons. He was fighting.

[A]

Man, you and I are cut from this.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

No, that's just like a core memory. Yeah, he had a lot of issues, man.

[A]

Wow. Wow. Did your mom ever get remarried?

[B]

So she never got remarried, but she's with someone now for, like, seven years, so pretty much, I guess.

[A]

Do you guys get along pretty well?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's a lawyer. We're cool. But, like, you, she brought a lot of guys in and out over the years, and. And every time I get my hopes up of, like, this guy could maybe move in, be my dad, stepdad, or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it would just end.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, dating stuff these days, it is tough.

[A]

It was tough back then, too. Yeah. But that was. Your experience. Was same as mine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think you kind of get up to a point where you're like, wow. Like, I just.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I think it's the trust factor, really?

[B]

For sure. Yeah. But, yeah, now I'm trying to be proactive. You know, I'm getting married. I want to be a really good father when I have kids, so I'm interviewing guys like you. All these therapists or dating coaches. Just getting ready, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm excited for that chapter of my life.

[A]

That's good, man.

[B]

It's important for me, you know, growing up the way I did, to be a really good father.

[A]

You know, I think that if you grew up the way you did, the way I did, I think it becomes insanely important.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, it's almost like, man, I can't. I can't mess this up.

[B]

And the cycle, Right?

[A]

And the cycle. Yeah. You know, there's a quote that I put in the book called the Definition of hell is meeting the man that you could have become when you're on your deathbed. I. I believe that's a Napoleon Hill quote, but that one really resonates, and I think it really creates urgency for guys like you and I, you know, who kind of grew up that way, and we're just like, this ain't happened on my watch. Like, it's going to be different.

[B]

Yeah. I want to give it everything I have on my deathbed because I saw, you know, with my father and my grandfather, I feel like There were some unanswered questions for both of them, you know, when. When they passed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which.

[A]

Yeah. Closure, right.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's important. So you got four kids. So how old were you on the first kid? 30.

[A]

I was 30. Wow.

[B]

So I'll be probably about the same age. That's pretty crazy, man. Very similar life.

[A]

I know. Even. Even the courtship with you and your fiance is so similar to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jessica and I.

[B]

And you said. So the first half was rough, you said of the marriage. The first 15 years.

[A]

The first. I mean, dating. Oh, my gosh, when we dated, it was. It was really rough. Yeah. Because I was. We were really trying to figure it out. I mean, we were in our early 20s. I met her when she was 18. I was 21. And yeah, we. We took some lumps, you know, big time. And plus rookie relationships. I think there's one other thing here that's kind of unsaid based on what you just said, is that I think it's really important for men to do growth, you know, and, and to really understand what it takes to be married. But I also think on the flip side, women. My wife has done a ton of work with it too. So, like, the combined work that we've done together, I think is really solidify a relationship.

[B]

What type of work was she doing?

[A]

So we. We've done a ton of work on, like, so Communication.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Connection, believe it or not. I know this sounds kind of crazy, but one of the things that we've really worked on is our friendship. Because if you really think about it, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, your. Your spouse is your friend, right? And she's my best friend. And I think what. There's. What I put in the book, there's four elements to a great marriage. The one is the self care, right? So that's. We're both individuals. We need self care. I can't be my best for somebody else unless I'm my best. Right. Same goes for her. And she realizes that too. The next one is partnership. Partnership is like the not so sexy stuff. That's the chores, the roles, the bills, you know, the managerial stuff, managing the kids schedules. And I'll come back to that one here in a second. Then there's friendship, right. Which you got to be friends with your spouse. And the last one is intimacy. And that's obviously the physical part of your relationship. Those are the things you share with nobody else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But what usually happens to married couples is they get stuck in that partnership loop. And that part and that's all the conversations they have is like those high level managerial conversations. You know, it's like X's and O's, Right. They forget about their date nights. They forget about, you know, intimate talks. They. They. They even kind of push the friendship a little bit, sometimes to the side. And then we wonder why we don't get the intimacy that we want. And a lot of it just has to do with the fact that we haven't done those four things that we need to do.

[B]

Yeah. You call that the drift, right?

[A]

The drift, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I think I've definitely been there, you know? Yeah, definitely been there. Because the first five years I'm working to, like, build up some. Some liquid capital.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I have a family, kids in a house and all that. So I'm working my ass off, and then we're just stuck in that drift.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're not doing activities outside of work, right?

[A]

Yeah. It's like. It's like the wash, rinse, repeat. It's like the Groundhog Day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every day feels like the same.

[B]

The same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Come home late. Don't even ask her how her day was.

[A]

Just right.

[B]

Focused on the work.

[A]

I have a story around that if you want to hear it. When I first got started doing this work, I had this great mentor of mine, and he said, and this was 2015, he's like, if you're going to do a podcast, he goes, you need to have an avatar. I was like, I didn't know what avatar was. I was like, what does that mean? He goes, you need to write in detail who you're speaking to, what problems they have and how you're helping them. And I was like, well, that's me. I have all these problems. He goes, yeah, but you kind of want to picture somebody you're talking to. So, Lance, I'll explain my avatar and I'll explain the drift. So Lance is my avatar. Like, he's the guy that I created. He's the guy that I talk to when I'm on the podcast. He's the guy that I write the book to. He's basically like your best friend type of thing. He's 38. He has three kids under 10, married to a woman named Kate, and they had a courtship for about five years. And for the past 10 years, ever since they started having kids, he's noticed changes. He goes to a job every day that he doesn't really like. 82. I think it's 82% of men don't really like what they do.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so he goes to a job that he feels kind of stuck in, sort of trapped. She's a stay at home mom, so he doesn't feel like he can really do anything else. So he feels pretty unfulfilled from a career standpoint. Comes home after eight to 10 hours of that, it's chaos. Three kids under 10. Desperately wants to connect with his kids, but also has problems with patience. Tries to connect with Kate, just doesn't. It just never really feels like they're connecting and they're just drifting and they're just talking, like about the high level things. And he goes to bed every night and he's like, I thought there was more. Isn't there more? I just don't feel like I'm completely fulfilled. I know there's more, but he just keeps going on. But here's the trickiest, most sinister thing, in my opinion. It's the men that we surround ourselves with. Because in Lance's world, he's got these rusty relationships. And anytime he opens up and talks about it, they're like, dude, you've been married for 10 years. You're not gonna have sex anymore. You've got three kids. Like, come on, man, get over it. And he's like. And no one likes what they do. Just keep doing it. Just forget it. And so Lance just hangs it up and he's like, well, I guess this is life and I'll just keep going. But all the while, he's happy, he's content to some degree, but he's also pretty miserable to some degree. But he just keeps going. The book talks about how to disrupt that, you know, and to really, really get into your marriage, to really get involved with your kids and. But it actually starts with us first.

[B]

What do you mean by that?

[A]

So, like, for instance, I. One of the hardest things for a man to do is if you're a guy like Lance, you don't want to raise your hand and say, I'd really like some help to connect with Kate better. A lot of us don't want to even say that kind of stuff out loud. We don't even want to talk in detail about what's going on in our marriages.

[B]

We're like, ashamed, right?

[A]

We're ashamed. It's like, well, it's. It's a ding on me, like, if I. If my marriage isn't on point. But as soon as you get Lance to say, you know what? No more, no more line in the sand, I'm done living this way, I'm gonna go get help and that. I'm not saying therapy or anything like that, but I'm gonna go figure this out. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna listen to podcasts, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read some books. Maybe I'll get into community around other like minded men. And I'm going to start to learn this stuff through conversation and through skill. Then he starts to implement these things. Then he starts to see his marriage start to change. Then he starts to see the connection with his kids start to change. Then his life starts to feel like he wanted it to feel. I'm not saying there's no bad days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the bad days are a lot less.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So the first step is basically admitting that there's. There's an issue. Right.

[A]

So that, for a guy like that, that is the hardest thing. But, but I also, I also say this as soon as you raise your hand. Like, the scariest thing is being like, I don't know all about this. I don't have this figured out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But as soon as you're like, I'm ready to learn. There is a, there's something that I think happens to a guy in his heart and in his mind where he was like, all right, that wasn't so hard. Let's go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they start to go. And, man, I mean, I've seen guys turn marriages around that I, that I thought I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't know if this guy has a prayer. Turn marriages around, turn. Kids haven't spoken to some of these guys for 10 years.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Some they, they turn their relationship around. I mean, I'm just like, this is awesome.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. 10 years the kids haven't spoken to.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, they're. I've. I've had a client like that.

[B]

That's nuts. Wow. There's a quote I pulled. I don't know if this is from your. Your show or your book. Married first, father second. Was that something you said?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Could you elaborate on that?

[A]

Sure. So, you know, I think that's a. When we say marriage first, parents second, I think a lot of people take certain statements for extreme. Right. And I'm not saying like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry you have a broken arm, but. And you need to go to the er, but me and mom have a date night, so you're just gonna have to suffer until you're back. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is once we start having kids, you know, just take a regular married Couple. What most married couples will do is they will slide their marriage on that back burner and the kids now have the front burner, and which rightfully so in those first few years. I mean, that kid is totally dependent on you. But then they never get back to being a couple. They're just parents. Right. So all the attention goes on the kids, which in actuality, I don't think that that's necessarily a great thing for the kids because I think one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids. I'm speaking to the right man right now. Think about this for a second. If your parents and my parents were like, you know what? We're going to make a killer marriage here. We're. We're going to make this marriage work and we're going to be functional, we're going to be happy, and we're going to learn the skills to do it. I'm going to fulfill your needs, you're going to fulfill my needs, and it's going to be awesome. Awesome. But we don't do that. I think as soon as a couple makes that decision, I think the family is set up for better success. Because where do we learn functional relationships? Like you and I. Right. Like, I, I completely tripped over this for over a decade. But when we have our marriage on point, our kids get a front row seat to a functional relationship that actually is working.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I think will give them a better probability of things working. And even my 12 year old, you know, I've asked him, I'm like, because my wife and I, one of our goals is to gross them out every day.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

We try to gross them out every day. But we've even asked our kids, we're like, what does it feel like for you when you see mom and dad love each other? Because my wife and I, man, we, we love each other like heavily. Right. And my 12 year old says, it feels warm, it feels cozy, it feels comfortable in here, it feels good. And I think that's his way of saying it feels really safe, which is one of a kid's three needs, is to feel safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When parents are locked lockstep, I think that makes kids feel safe and feel good. And plus, they get to see a functional relationship.

[B]

That's beautiful. Yeah. My fiance grew up in an environment like that. So she has a secure attachment style.

[A]

My gosh.

[B]

And she's been trying to get me from my avoidant attachment style and, oh, my God. To her lane.

[A]

You know, I, I'm just saying that because that Jessica came my Wife came from the exact same.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Your fiance did. And I was you and like. So, yeah, it's like, it's, it's fascinating. She's very secure. I was very avoidant.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's like she would always have to chase me down to talk. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Were you able to transition to secure? Are you still avoiding?

[A]

No, I'm, I'm secure now.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

That took a ton of work.

[B]

I'm still working on it. It's been years. I don't what worked for you in regards to that transition.

[A]

So I think, I think you have, I think a couple of things. I think you have to make a decision of. I'm going to face things head on and the consequences are going to be what they're going to be. Right. Because I think we approach a lot of different scenarios or relationships with expectation and agenda. Right. So it's like I have to operate within this way for like survival in this relationship. But I will say this, as soon as you make that decision of like, no, I'm just, I am going to make sure that I'm the one tackling problems, initiating conversations. I do think things get better. But I will say this. I think there's one thing that couples could really, really get better at, and that's conflict resolution. Because one of the things that didn't make me feel very secure is conflict resolution. Had no idea how to do it. So you just fight with raw emotion. You know, she's saying one thing, I'm saying another, and then I just, I would just walk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now we know how to resolve, you know, and we, and we know how to get conflict resolution now.

[B]

I love that. What's the process for that?

[A]

So we learned a skill and I, I always have to say who we learned it from. It's this skill called the cube. It's. We learned it from an organization called Clear Leadership. If you go to clearleadership.com you'll see all their stuff. But this skill that they taught us was gold. It's. But it's observations, thoughts, feelings and wants. So it's in that process. So an observation. So, like I can give you a total example if you want. So this was about three years ago. Jess and I have a great intimate life. Like no complaints there. We're pretty active, I would say at least two or three times a week. And even after all this time, we went through a couple years ago into like a three month thing where we were only about once a month. And I got kind of like irritated with that, like Most men do it, right? So how I would normally handle that is I would either go quiet, you know, walk, or just not say anything at all. Just avoid it. Or I would talk to her like this. I would say, hey, so what's going on with us lately? Like, I feel like we're not. We're not intimate lately. Like, every time if I initiate, you're not like, what's going on? Like, are you just like, I don't understand. And then she'd be like, well, no, it's not. And then we would just fight. You know, it was like raw emotion. Now I'll just kind of take it through step by step. We used to fight about that topic constantly, but now. So, like, how I handled that one was the observation has to be what she sees and I see equally. Right? So observations are not opinions. She has to see it the way I do, and I have to see it the way she does. So like me saying, we've only been intimate once a month for the past three months. Would she agree to that? Yeah, she would, because she knows that too. So I'd say, hey, I've noticed over the past few months, we've only been intimate, like, once a month.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's like, yeah. And I was like, so here are my thoughts. And I always try to. Thoughts and feelings are different. And by the way, you'll probably never unhear this or unsee this because people get this wrong all the time. People say this all the time. I feel like I really like that shirt. Right. That's not a feeling. That's a thought. Right. Thought as a sentence. And a feeling is a word. So I could say something like, I really like your shirt. And when I see that shirt, I feel happy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right. So. So a feeling is one word. So what I would do, what I did in that scenario is I would say, hey, you know, here are my thoughts around that. My thoughts are, we're both probably really exhausted. Like, the kids activities are a lot. By the time we get to bed at night, it's. We're exhausted. Here's the other thought that I have. The other thought that I have is, maybe you're not attracted to me anymore. You know, it's like, or maybe you've just had the same guy for so long, and maybe I'm just boring.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I try to, you know, I always try to throw in a thought to make the person laugh because it was true. Right? It's very true. And I say, but all kidding aside, you know, I'm a little Concerned. And then the wants are. You have to go three layers deep of why you want it. I can't just say, I just want to be with you. Because say, you know, what I truly want is I'd love to be intimate with you like we used to be, you know, a few times a week. Because when we are intimate, like, man, we're in lockstep. We communicate better.

[B]

We're better.

[A]

We're even more patient parents. Like, we're just. We're just better, right? And she's like, I want that too. But here's the crazy thing. If you don't use a conflict resolution skill like that, and by the way, you probably won't ever unsee this either. Most people, when they argue, we are fighting for what we don't want anymore. But we never usually ever say what we want. Like, we're just fighting for what we don't want. Isn't that true? So that makes as much sense as doing this where you go to Starbucks and the woman says, hey, what can I get you? And you're like, the last time I was here, you gave me an almond milk latte. I did not like that. She'd probably look at you and be like, okay, what do you want? Right? But that's one of the biggest things that we miss in conflict resolution, is just stating what we want. But most importantly, on a deep level, why do we want that? Right? So I don't. I don't say to Jessica, I just want you just because I tell her I want. I want this. Because we communicate better. We're better parents. We're more connected. Like, it's. Our relationship is just better, right? And usually, here's what I've found. When you state what you want, a lot of the times, not all the time, that other person usually wants that too.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is such a cool model. And then what's after the one? Is that the last step?

[A]

No. So that's. That's really, like, the launching pad for then a conversation, right? Because when we barrel in with, like, I just don't understand why we're not having sex anymore. Like, why not? Like, are you tired? Like, are you tired of me? Are you bored of me? Like, what's going on? That's gonna do nothing but raise those defenses, right? And I'm stating what I don't want anymore, which is, like, I don't want. We have right now. And I've never been clear about what I do. One, but as soon as I share that, then we can have a more fruitful conversation. She's on the offense. We're set up for a better conversation.

[B]

That's great. Yeah. I'm sure you run into a lot of guys dealing with, like, sexless marriages or.

[A]

Oh, my. Yeah, a lot.

[B]

Not having sex enough.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it just naturally, I guess the sex drive goes down as we age too, right?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

No, I'm 50.

[A]

I could. I could still go every day, I think.

[B]

I think maybe it's different for men.

[A]

Yeah, probably. Yeah.

[B]

But after a couple kids, I'm sure they're chilling a little more than normal.

[A]

I. I don't. My wife and I, man, it's like we, We. We actually do it more now than before.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which is great.

[B]

You're giving me something to look forward to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I. I talked to a lot of older guys and they're like, yeah, once a month. That's pretty normal.

[A]

I couldn't even imagine. Yeah, I couldn't.

[B]

That's not a lot.

[A]

No.

[B]

Dude, this is great. Is the book out yet?

[A]

Yeah, the book came out on September 16th and so it's on Amazon now. I do have one other way for people to buy it if they want. I did a pre order. I did a pre order campaign. I didn't really think much was going to come of it, but it became massive. We sold a ton of books.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I think a lot of people wanted the bonuses that came with it, though. So if your audience goes to thedadege.com legendarybook, they can buy it from me if they want, but they get two courses with it. So I have a course that's called Creating more patience. It's 45 minutes. It teaches men six skills on how to be more patient with their kids and just life in general. And then I have another course called Creating Extraordinary marriage. And there's 11 skills in there around communication, conflict resolution, intimacy, learning your wife's three needs, which is being seen, heard, and safe, you know, and understanding how to fulfill those. But I'm giving those two courses for free as long as people buy the book there. And I'll probably keep that page up until the end of the year.

[B]

Wow. Beautiful. We'll link that in the video and we'll link your podcast. Anything else you want to include?

[A]

No, I think that's probably about it.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Actually, there is one more thing. If. If any guys, you know, are out there, you know, if you're. If you're a business owner, you know, especially, we have a heart for our business owners big time. If they go to the dad edge.com forward slash mastermind. They'll see those two pathways for the alliance and for the boardroom. But, yeah, if they want to apply, if they want to get in conversations and learn these skills that we're talking about, that's the best way to do it.

[B]

Amazing. We'll link that well as well. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. Hope you enjoy Vegas.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.