Morgue: The Hidden Side of Consciousness Nobody Explains | DSH #1722

Summary

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Digital Social Hour - Episode DSH #1722

Guest: Morgue
Host: Sean Kelly
Title: Morgue: The Hidden Side of Consciousness Nobody Explains
Date: December 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Morgue—a performer, philosopher, and self-described disseminator of “hidden knowledge”—in a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation with host Sean Kelly. They explore Morgue’s journey away from Christianity into the study of esoteric traditions, quantum mechanics, and the fundamental nature of consciousness. The dialogue covers ancient Gnostic texts, the psychological and mathematical nature of reality, dream symbolism, magic and ritual, the pitfalls of institutionalized religion and education, as well as Morgue’s viral mission to awaken higher consciousness worldwide. The show flows candidly, with Morgue connecting ancient wisdom to modern scientific concepts, and discussing the role of personal responsibility in spiritual awakening.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Morgue’s Mission: Making Higher Consciousness Viral

• Morgue’s goal is to “wake the world the hell up” by making secret/ancient knowledge publicly accessible and understood.

  “One of the main things that I’m trying to do is make higher consciousness go viral.” — Morgue (00:00)

• He considers the popularity of his platforms (700k+ on YouTube, 1.8M on Facebook) as evidence of the masses searching for deeper meaning.

  “It’s growing really fast. I mean, the whole idea here is to make hidden knowledge and enlightenment go viral.” — Morgue (00:49)

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Personal Journey: From Christianity to Self-Transformation

• Early doubts about Christianity: At age 13, Morgue began questioning his faith due to biblical atrocities and contradictions.

  “There’s all of these inconsistencies that don’t square away with a supposedly all loving God... that’s what really started to get me questioning.” — Morgue (01:41)

• Transitioned from Christianity towards “an atheistic agnostic mindset,” then rediscovered non-material dimensions through quantum mechanics, philosophy, and psychedelics.

• Art and philosophy, especially figures like Nietzsche and Descartes, played crucial roles in this shift.

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Gnosticism, Ancient Texts, and Heretical Knowledge

• Gnosticism as self-knowledge: Gnostic Christianity promoted becoming “a Christ” rather than worshipping Christ.

  “Gnosis means knowledge… their gospels paint a completely different picture… when you understand this information, you are no longer a Christian, you are Christ.” — Morgue (03:51)

• Core Gnostic idea: Reality emanates from a singularity/light, paralleling quantum physics concepts of matter as condensed or “frozen light.”

  “Matter is essentially frozen light whose vibration has been lowered; as such, it starts to become matter.” — Morgue (05:11)

• Gnostics cast the biblical God as an evil “shadow” being (“Yaldabaoth”), whose purpose is to keep humanity ignorant—a mythological, psychological explanation for humanity’s spiritual malaise.

  “They called him Yaldabaoth… basically means a blind fool. They were not fans of the God of the Old Testament.” — Morgue (08:26)

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The Nature of Reality: Mathematics, Holograms, Consciousness

• Reality is not purely material; it is a mathematically structured mind projecting a holographic simulation, a “collective dream.”

  “Reality is a mind of light expressed as mathematics that is projecting itself holographically. It projects this dream world to understand what it is, to realize and come to the knowledge that it is God through us.” — Morgue (05:40, 06:20)

• Everything is explainable by mathematics on an objective level, but subjective experience (like love) transcends equations.

  “The actual subjective feeling, that's a completely different area of knowledge. That got more experiential.” — Morgue (07:07)

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Psychological & Societal Insights

• On why people accept dogma: Most people prefer external authority to personal freedom because “with freedom comes anxiety.”

  “Most people would rather have a book or a God or some figure tell them what to do because it takes a lot of anxiety away.” — Morgue (11:17)

• Cult accusations: Morgue is often labeled as running a cult, but he counters:

  “If it is a cult, it’s a cult of reason. We're a cult that says to think for yourself. So we'd be like the worst cult ever.” — Morgue (12:41)

• Modern institutions as brainwashing: He criticizes religious indoctrination and the public school system—both designed, he argues, to produce compliant, uncritical thinkers.

  “We're all born into a cult, like the cult of culture… stories so crazy they can only get people to believe them through brainwashing.” — Morgue (11:54)
  “Just indoctrination… our school systems are basically designed not to create free thinkers, but to create soldiers, workers, and consumers.” — Morgue (37:05)

• Economic system as a trap: Modern capitalism drains people, distracting them from inner exploration.

  “We’re trapped in this rat race, unable to connect to our true selves because we're so fucking tired.” — Morgue (38:02)

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Consciousness, AI, and the Soul

• AI cannot become conscious: Morgue distinguishes between physical processes and true consciousness, suggesting the latter is intrinsic to non-material “minds” or “souls.”

  “I do not believe that AI itself can become conscious because it's actually a logical impossibility. Just like a brain cannot become conscious.” — Morgue (16:17)

• Reincarnation and immortal souls: Morgue defends the logical necessity of ongoing existence, likening the soul to patterns of energy or mathematical frequencies that constantly transform and evolve, like “a Rubik's cube trying to solve itself.”

  “Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed… we are as eternal souls, systems of energy that are constantly transforming and evolving.” — Morgue (18:50)

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Multiverse Theory, Dimensions, and Evolution

• Skeptical of multiverse theory: Views mainstream scientific interpretations as attempts to avoid deeper metaphysical implications of quantum mechanics.

  “Scientists try and propose multiverse theory… because quantum mechanics says reality is not physical, but mainstream science does not like that.” — Morgue (20:50)

• Believes in the existence of other dimensions, not infinite parallel universes, and posits a purposeful, teleological evolution towards higher forms of existence and consciousness.

  “I believe we evolve beyond this [humankind]… form a network able from its frequency to generate its own dimension, its own reality.” — Morgue (24:07)

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Psychedelics, Dreams, and the Subconscious

• Distinguishes between simply experiencing phenomena through psychedelics and actually understanding their metaphysical structures through study and logic.

  “The psychedelics definitely allowed me to experience that, but the studying is what allowed me to understand what it really said.” — Morgue (24:34)

• Dream analysis is fundamental—drawing heavily from Carl Jung—who was inspired by Gnostic mythology and saw myths as projections of the collective psyche.

  “You can essentially study these ancient mythologies the same way you would do dream analysis.” — Morgue (27:50)

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Magic, Ritual, and the Occult

• Ritual as psychological technology: Magic and occult rituals work by engaging and programming the unconscious/subconscious through symbolism—not literally invoking external beings.

  “What you're essentially doing is powerful psychology. The unconscious mind doesn't communicate with language. It communicates through symbolism.” — Morgue (41:23)

• Demons and archetypes: In magic, demons and angels are symbolic stand-ins for aspects or complexes within the psyche (mirrored by modern modalities like Internal Family Systems therapy).

  “These demonic symbols or demons aren't actually demons. They're archetypes in the mind that you can use to access those [parts of yourself].” — Morgue (44:05)
  “Modern psychology is doing demonic invocation without even knowing it. It's the same thing.” — Morgue (45:49)

• Negative connotations for demons mainly stem from Christianity, which took a hostile stance toward any spiritual symbols outside its own narrow pantheon.

  “Christianity really started to take control and see anything that wasn't part of the monotheistic God as evil.” — Morgue (44:10)

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Secret Societies, Mystery Schools, and Suppressed Knowledge

• Secret societies once kept knowledge hidden out of necessity, but secrecy today is mostly “elitism bullshit.”

  “Today it’s just elitism bullshit. Like, it doesn’t need to be that way.” — Morgue (48:10)

• Supports publicizing esoteric wisdom: “If you are truly someone who's involved with secrets, your job is to tell everyone the secret… But only certain people are going to really hear what it is that you're saying.” — Morgue (48:18)

• Mystery schools and societies, from the Pythagoreans to Kabbalah, used mathematical and symbolic systems as maps of the psyche—a recurring motif across many cultures and traditions.

  “Reality stems from a mind that is expressing itself in different modalities.” — Morgue (52:50)

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

1. On the Purpose of His Content (00:00, 29:15)

"One of the main things that I'm trying to do is make higher consciousness go viral… what I'm essentially doing is making this ancient knowledge that the church literally killed to keep secret go viral and reach millions." — Morgue

2. On Cognitive Freedom (12:41)

"If it is a cult, it's a cult of reason. We're a cult that says to think for yourself. So we'd be like the worst cult ever." — Morgue

3. On Reality’s Nature (06:20)

"Reality is a mind of light expressed as mathematics that is projecting itself holographically... a mind that is self organizing itself to understand itself better." — Morgue

4. On Religious Trauma (32:30)

"It's actually known as Religious Trauma Syndrome, which can mimic the effects of PTSD and CPTSD. Extremely damaging… to teach a child that they are fundamentally dirty rotten sinners and they're going to literally burn for eternity." — Morgue

5. On Magic and Psychology (41:23, 44:05)

"What you're essentially doing is powerful psychology. The unconscious mind doesn't communicate with language. It communicates through symbolism… these demonic symbols or demons aren't actually demons. They're archetypes in the mind."

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Notable Timestamps

• [00:00] — Morgue’s Mission: Spreading higher consciousness
• [01:41] — Leaving Christianity, the early questioning
• [03:51] — Gnosticism and ancient secret knowledge
• [06:20] — Reality as mathematics and holography
• [08:26] — The Gnostic take: an “evil God” and metaphysical enslavement
• [12:41] — Addressing “cult” accusations
• [14:08] — Bridging psychology, philosophy, mathematics, and the occult
• [16:17] — Consciousness, AI, and the impossibility of machine self-awareness
• [18:50] — The logic of reincarnation and souls as energy systems
• [20:50] — Critique of multiverse theory
• [24:34] — Psychedelics, subjective experience, and rational understanding
• [27:50] — Gnosticism, Carl Jung, and dream analysis
• [32:30] — Psychological impacts of religious trauma
• [37:05] — Problems with traditional schooling systems
• [44:05] — Magic, ritual, and demonic archetypes
• [48:18] — The real “secret” of secret societies
• [52:50] — Mystery schools, Pythagoras, Kabbalah, and the mathematics of reality

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Final Segment: Sword Swallowing as Symbolism

• Morgue demonstrates sword swallowing as a live expression of philosophical transformation—the destruction of the old self and creation of the new.

  “My stunt work is an expression of my philosophy, so I swallow swords to represent, like, the destruction of the old self and the creation of the new self.” — Morgue (36:16)

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Conclusion

This episode presents a deep, passionate, and integrative conversation where Morgue challenges religious, scientific, and educational dogmas—advocating for a paradigm that unites the rational, the mathematical, the mystical, the psychological, and the symbolic. He encourages listeners to think for themselves, question inherited narratives, deeply analyze their dreams and experiences, and ultimately discover their own divinity. The conversation is dense with references and practical examples, making ancient knowledge lucid and relevant for a modern audience.

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Transcript

[A]

One of the main things that I'm trying to do is make higher consciousness go viral.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To wake the world the hell up because it's been asleep for so long. And what I'm essentially doing is making this ancient knowledge that the church literally killed to keep secret go viral and reach millions. And people are really resonating with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And starting to understand that there's way more to reality than they thought.

[B]

All right, guys, at the beautiful Spotify Studios out here in Los Angeles with a very interesting guest, Very fun guest today. His name is Morg. You might have seen him, whether he's swallowing a sword or summoning something up. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

Hey, yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, you do some very interesting work. And I know you've built a brand around this, you know. 700,000 on YouTube, right?

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

That's impressive.

[A]

700,000 on YouTube, 1.8 million on Facebook Live of. It's growing really fast. I mean, the whole idea here is to make hidden knowledge and enlightenment go viral.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think that that's just a testament to how many people want this information, how much it's needed.

[B]

Yeah. So when you started the channel, were you still a Christian? Because I know you had a big transition. Right.

[A]

So when I first started the channel, I was already not a Christian. I started to leave Christianity. I began to leave Christianity around when I was 13, but I didn't fully remove myself from that mindset until I was maybe like, 17, 18.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I started to transition away from Christianity and promote a message of self creation and self transformation, which eventually led me to, like, studying ancient heretical texts. Quantum physics, mathematics, philosophy, things like that.

[B]

So you started questioning it at 13? That's pretty young.

[A]

Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, what really started making me question is just all the atrocities in the Bible. I mean, there's genocides. God literally accepts a burnt virgin sacrifice. There's all of these inconsistencies that don't square away with a supposedly all loving God. And that's what really started to get me questioning. Art is also something that made me start questioning. I was taught that, you know, certain types of music was evil, but I saw it as expression. And I would see these performers who were supposed to be, oh, satanic or something, but really they were expressing themselves, which is completely different from Christian worship music, which is all about subservience and submission.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And so that coupled with my study of, like, philosophy and things like that is what moved me away From Christianity more towards like an atheistic agnostic mindset. But then I started studying quantum physics and also dabbling with psychedelics, which then made me realize there's way more to reality than just the material world.

[B]

I have such a similar experience.

[A]

Oh really?

[B]

That's interesting. Almost parallel, like I grew up going to church. Christian.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, up until, yeah, up until about you, Middle school, I'd say. Then I was like, I mainly just didn't like being there. Yeah, it wasn't really me just questioning it at the, at the time.

[A]

You just felt like you didn't belong, didn't fit in.

[B]

Yeah, it didn't feel like I was resonating with it. Yeah, I like didn't look forward to going to church.

[A]

Yeah, I got you.

[B]

And then I. Yeah, I was probably atheist agnostic for high school, college and then now I believe in something.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, very similar.

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't know what to label it exactly, but I believe in something for sure.

[A]

Yeah, that's very cool.

[B]

Like, I think numerology is really interesting. Astrology, like there's definitely a spiritual side.

[A]

To me that's great.

[B]

That I'm still exploring.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. So for you though, you started studying ancient texts.

[A]

So I originally started studying philosophy like Frederick Nietzsche, Rene Descartes, moved to quantum mechanics and then from there started studying ancient heretical, forbidden knowledge societies, the occult, etc. Because I saw a parallel, I saw what, what's being said in these ancient philosophies and in modern quantum mechanics pair together very well, just in different language.

[B]

So you could see a similarity with math and these ancient texts?

[A]

Oh yeah, absolutely. Like there are some of these, I mean the ancient texts that I really get into and I talk about a lot on my channel is from a thought known as Gnosticism, which is a strain of heretical Christianity. So the Gnostics were Christians, but the, the word Gnostic comes from Gnosis, which means knowledge. So they were the Christians that professed to have the secret knowledge of Jesus. And so all of their books were omitted from the Bible. And it paints a completely different picture of what we consider like orthodox Christianity today, such as that we are here to basically not worship Christ, but become a Christ. Like one of their gospels literally says, when you understand this information, you are no longer a Christian, you are Christ. So it's this information that's really about self knowledge and self transformation. But a lot of it also ties into what we're understanding in modern physics as well, because they describe reality as being composed of basically a Singularity of light that's expressing itself in various states of matter, which is essentially what quantum mechanics says today in terms of the wave function and in terms of light condensation as matters. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Holy crap. So we're all just light basically?

[A]

Essentially, yes. It's been said that you can think of matter as frozen light. Matter is essentially frozen matter is light whose vibration has been lowered. As such, it starts to become matter.

[B]

Interesting. So we are not I guess technically physical beings.

[A]

Well, sure. Like it depends on how you like how science classically defines physical. Yeah, no, we are more of a. It's more similar to having like a collective dream.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah. So really it's like a blend of. You know, there are some people who say, oh, reality is a hologram simulation theory. Right? Yeah. And some people say reality, simulation. Some people say reality is a dream. The reason why is because it's actually all these things at the same time. It's a hologram, it's a simulation in a dream. Because reality is a mind of light expressed as mathematics that is projecting itself holographically. So it's essentially this mind that is self organizing itself to understand itself better. And it basically projects this dream world and inserts itself into this dream world to understand what it is, to realize and come to the knowledge that it is God through us.

[B]

Fascinating.

[A]

Yeah. And this is really like, this is like Hegelian philosophy too. This is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This has been around for a long time, this information. Yeah.

[B]

So do you think we'll get to the point where people will be able to explain everything in the universe through math and like they'll be able to predict the future and all that?

[A]

I don't think that they will be able. I think it would be possible in theory, but not in practice. And I think that everything objectively, objectively is explainable by mathematics, like in anything about the objective nature of reality. But if you want to, for example, explore the feeling of love, you could write down the equation for the process. But the actual subjective feeling, that's a completely different area of knowledge. That got more experiential.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Cuz love isn't subjective or it's not. I know what you're trying to say though.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. When it comes to. There's just like how reality works on like a mechanical level and then what it's like to be it, to feel it. And that's one reason why that this mind expresses itself as a dream world. Because even if it can know itself, it wants to feel itself, it wants to know what it's like to be in all these different basic iterations of itself.

[B]

What do you think causes that? Do you think it's the subconscious first conscious mind just battling.

[A]

You mean the. At the very. Like, how reality exists at all?

[B]

Or I guess, like humans just naturally want to experience these feelings, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think all of us have this inner pole that there is something more, that there's something beyond, that there's something other that we have this purpose that we can't really put our finger on. And it's because we live in a world that's full of constant distraction and ignorance that's really pulling us away from what is meaningful.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We have all these things. Like, we are both the most connected we've ever been through social media, but also the most disconnected we've ever been. Like, a true, like, soulful level. And so the idea here is that we are really having this experience where we've been blinded to what we actually are. And that's what all these ancient Gnostic texts say as well. They looked at the God of the Bible is actually being an evil being.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So the Secret Book of John describes this as the highest God, is a mind of light. The God of the Bible is a lesser shadow expression of that mind. If reality is like a dream, it would be like a nightmare, basically. And so this being, they called it Yaldabaot, had different names for it, Samael, Saclas, which basically means, like blind fool. They were not fans of the God of the Old Testament because they saw him as evil. Yeah, because he's, you know, commanding murder and genocide and accepting sacrifice and all this. And so they basically believed that God and his angels were evil. They called them archons, which means rulers. And their job is basically to keep humanity in darkness, in ignorance, in distraction from realizing what they really are. They created humans basically as. As slaves, according to Gnostic mythology, for. To trap souls of light within matter. Now, I take a very psychological interpretation of this. I don't believe that that literally happened, but I believe that it expresses a fundamental truth in a mythological way.

[B]

I mean, if you look at how that theory's played out with modern Christianity now, it's, oh, absolutely turning out to be true.

[A]

Oh, certainly the modern Gnostics or the ancient Gnostics would say that Christianity is a false light, that Christianity is basically a satanic religion.

[B]

Yeah. Can you believe how big it's gone?

[A]

Oh, it's insane. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's absolutely huge. And the amount of, you know, destruction and murder it's caused throughout, you know, history is just unbelievable. They really. It's a very effective control mechanism.

[B]

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[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's. It's such a good system because, you know, people always talk about freedom and whatnot, but most people don't want to be free, even if they say that, because to be free means you're responsible. With freedom comes anxiety. You have to make choices for yourself. You have to be responsible for the choices you make. Most people would rather have a book or a God or some figure tell them what to do because it takes a lot of anxiety away. So people don't really, like.

[B]

Do you think that's why they're. They're gravitating towards it?

[A]

I think that that's one of the many reasons. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Wow. I would have never thought about that angle. I think a lot of people just. Just don't question it to begin with. You know, they grow up in a family around it. And.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, we're all born into a cult, like the cult of culture. And so regardless of what denomination we're born into or whatever, we. We tend to believe whatever we were taught, whatever we were grown up with. And it takes a very strong mind to begin to question that initial programming because they get you before your rational functions have totally developed. You don't really develop your ability to reason till you're 24. And so these. These stories are so crazy that they can only get people to believe them through brainwashing. Right, yeah.

[B]

And you mentioned the word cult. When I was preparing for this episode using AI tools, they were mentioning you were accused of leading a cult.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I get that all the time.

[B]

Is that even, like an insult to you? Like, how do you interpret that?

[A]

I mean, I honestly don't care. People can call whatever I want, whatever they want. And the idea here is essentially like, if it is a cult, it's a cult of reason. We're a cult that says to think for yourself. So we'd be like the worst cult ever, because it's like, think for yourself and question everything.

[B]

Well, that's dangerous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, look what happened to Tate.

[A]

Oh, I don't.

[B]

Andrew Tate.

[A]

Oh, I'm not too familiar.

[B]

Oh, you're not? Well, basically, people that inspire a generation of free thinkers get targeted.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, because that's too powerful.

[A]

I'm. I'm not too familiar. From what I've seen of Andrew Tate, I'm not a fan. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, I guess there's a lot you could dislike about them, too. But I think the bottom line is, like, when you inspire a generation to think freely, it could be seen as dangerous to opposing forces.

[A]

I think freedom of thought is always seen as dangerous. Now, that being said, there are a lot of individuals that I don't agree with, and I think that can be very, very harmful, especially when people are looking for. Because there's a lot of people who are upset with how the way the world is now, and they're looking for anyone who's about change, even if that change is ultimately bad, they'll just latch onto it. Right, right. Like, even if it's like. Like the joker. Right. They're going to cause chaos, but, oh, it's different. So we're going to go towards that. And essentially this is a version of the shadow. Like, in psychology, these aspects of ourselves have been repressed and we're looking for a way to release them. And any way that we can release it, we will find it, even if it's not in a. In a healthy way or a healthy modality.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is fascinating. So you know psychology too?

[A]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of this stuff is heavily rooted in psychology.

[B]

You're well versed in a lot of advanced topics.

[A]

Well, thanks. I appreciate that. I mean, I think the idea is to be well rounded because all these things connect and all of these different systems, whether it's psychology, mathematics, philosophy, ancient Knowledge are talking about the same thing, just with different language.

[B]

Yeah. And what's great is you finding these connections between those things because a lot of people specialize in one lane, whether it's psychology or ancient text. But you're able to kind of bridge the gaps, right?

[A]

Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think that that's, you know, one thing I really try and do with my channel is bring together information that's usually like, scattered across all different places into one cohesive area so people have access to it. I think that that's the problem right now is that this information is out there. Anyone can find it, but it's, it's scattered across multiple disciplines and it's often in such complicated jargon that it's hard.

[B]

To understand when you're researching topics these days. Are you using any AI?

[A]

I mean, I'm not opposed to using AI. I definitely, if I, if I do use AI, I definitely, like, check it to make sure that everything is, is, you know, correct, because it does get things wrong sometimes. But I'm not opposed to AI. I think that like any, any technology, it's how you use it. Right. You know, it's like a. I think it can be dangerous, and I think it can also be helpful. It depends how it's used. Just like a knife, you can use it to cut bread or you can use it to stab someone.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

And just like social media, just like the Internet, all of these things, I think aren't inherently bad, good or bad. It depends how they're being used. Now, that being said, I'm very skeptical about the people who are in charge of creating AI because I think that a lot of them are for self interest rather than the interest of the people. In, like a healthy society, people, they want to make money, basically.

[B]

They want to make money. They want to replace a lot of jobs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which could be scary for society.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Very scary. Oh, could end up like Terminator scary.

[A]

It certainly could. I have no issue with AI if it were done in a benevolent way to, you know, lower the work week, increase health care, you know, create better conditions. But it's going to be used to make money at the expense of, you know, whoever, you know, they don't care who's on the chopping block, unfortunately.

[B]

Yeah. They're calling it what singularity? I believe when it develops a consciousness. Do you think something like AI could develop a consciousness in your eyes?

[A]

So that's really, that's a really interesting question. So when it comes to AI developing consciousness, I do not believe that AI can become conscious. But I don't believe that a brain can become conscious either. So I believe that we are not our bodies, not our brains, that we are eternal minds. What you could possibly call a soul if you wanted to, but a system of mathematical frequencies essentially. Right. Like not this airy woo woo idea, but like well defined mathematical system that is trying to understand itself. And so I believe that the US as a soul or a mind uses the brain as an interface to be able to connect to this body like an avatar, to be able to explore this world as if we were in it, but we're not actually. So the reason why I mentioned that with regard to AI is I do not believe the AI itself can become conscious because it's actually a logical impossibility. Just like a brain cannot become conscious. It's, it's. It's a logical impossibility. This is known as the hard problem of consciousness. However, I do think that it is potentially possible that a soul or a mind could at some point interface with an AI in the same way that we interface with bodies now. So I believe in reincarnation, for example.

[B]

Yes, so.

[A]

So I believe that it's possible that through creating AI we are creating like the next iteration of ourselves without knowing it. Then we could possibly incarnate or localize later through this technology in some way.

[B]

Yeah, that's basically what the, the guys that are trying to achieve immortality are trying to pull off. They're trying to transfer their soul or their consciousness to another.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Body.

[A]

From what I understand about like this transhumanism thing from, from what I've studied about it, is that they're more like trying to copy the brain pattern really. Yeah, that's that, you know, perhaps you've heard something different than I. I think.

[B]

There'S different types, but yeah. Oh, I've seen that too actually.

[A]

Okay, interesting. Yeah, yeah. I would much more follow the camp.

[B]

Billy Carson, for example, is trying to transfer his consciousness to a machine.

[A]

Oh, interesting. I'd be curious. Like, I think that there are some interpretations of that that could be possible and some interpretations that couldn't. Usually what I see is if you're trying to transfer conscious, I would like to like understand how he defines consciousness. Right. Like, like what?

[B]

Everyone defines it differently. Some people don't believe in the soul.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So like if you ask a psychologist or a doctor or a physicist or philosopher what consciousness is, they're all going to give you a different answer.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, you said you believe in reincarnation earlier. So do I. Was There something specific. Remember studying that really made you compelled to believe in it.

[A]

Yeah. So like I said, I studied a lot of mathematics and philosophy and I basically believe that when you look at this stuff rationally and you get down to the basics of like what reality is, what existence is, I think that it is a logical impossibility for us not to exist. I think that non existence is impossible. And so energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. So I believe that we are as eternal souls, systems of frequency patterns, system, systems of energy that are constantly transforming and evolving, but can never be destroyed. Like you can never destroy a soul or create a soul, but you can engage in its evolution, its transformation. Almost like a Rubik's cube trying to solve itself.

[B]

Yeah. So would that mean there's the same amount of souls like forever then in your eyes?

[A]

That's also a really good question. So I think that that is an open question. I think it's possible there are a finite amount of souls. An infinite amount of souls, or infinite in potential, finite in actuality. So my position is that it's infinite in potential, finite in actuality. Meaning at any given time there are a finite number of souls, but there could be more, but it doesn't actually ever get to infinity.

[B]

So that's like a backup in case more souls are needed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you can think of it that way. Yeah. Sort of like a, like a, like a, you know, if you've, you know, ever used Photoshop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And let's say you put it, put, put down a circle and then you add another layer with a circle on top of it and another layer with a circle on top of it. And you do like, let's say you do that a thousand times. So you have a bunch of circles stacked on top of each other. But if you had someone come in the room and say how many circles are there? They go, oh, there's one circle. Right. But as soon as you like move it, so difference occurs. Oh, well, now there's two. And then you move another one. Now, oh, now there's three.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So I believe that souls are kind of like that, where it could be like infinite in potential. But as they differentiate and make themselves unique, they actualize in, in a, in a particularized fashion.

[B]

So that being said, do you believe in infinite universes? Like there's many going on at the same time?

[A]

No. So I'm actually very opposed to multiverse theory.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because so multiverse theory actually stems from the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. And the reason why I'm Not a big fan of multiverse theory. It has a lot of logical problems. But my main, the main thing that I don't like about it is that scientists try and propose multiverse theory as a way to Basically, quantum mechanics says that reality is not physical, but mainstream science does not like that. Right now I have a really. So I'm obviously a huge proponent of science when it comes to technology, medicine, etc. But when it comes to like understanding the nature of reality, they're scientists, not philosophers. And so I studied quantum mechanics for many years. When you go and learn quantum mechanics, they will teach you, let's say the Schrodinger equation, but they won't teach you what Schrodinger said about reality, which is that this is a dream and consciousness is derivative from matter. Matter. They teach you about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, but they won't teach you that Heisenberg said that matter does not exist and this is a mathematical reality. They'll teach you about the Planck constant, but they won't teach you that Planck said that matter does not exist and this reality is mind and the mind is the matrix of all matter. And these are the literal founders of quantum mechanics saying this stuff. And they don't teach you that stuff.

[B]

So that's intentional.

[A]

I think that it is not like this conspiracy. I think it's just the current, I think that the current scientific paradigm just really wants their view of reality. They're just brainwashed like everyone else, right? Like, you know, you have Christianity that brainwashes you into believing that there's one true God and you're going to hell. And then you have modern empirical science, materialism, which teaches you matter is the only thing that exists. We're all random accidents and that's all there is. So many worlds. Interpretation basically looks at quantum mechanics and there's a problem in quantum mechanics known as the measurement problem. And this has to do with superposition, basically. Long story short, there's this very big problem in quantum mechanics. Now if you say reality is immaterial, not material, that problem doesn't exist. But empirical science doesn't, doesn't like that. So what they try to do is in superposition, basically a particle can take any position. And so they propose that, oh, there is a new universe for every single position the particle could take, essentially. So this gets rid of having there to be a immaterial reality by proposing an infinite number of material realities. So a lot of people like to point to multiverse and think it's this kind of like open minded Spiritual thing, when it's actually not. It comes from trying to say reality is material because you're introducing an infinity of material universes. Now, I do believe that there are other dimensions, so which would be something.

[B]

Like a finite amount or infinite.

[A]

Finite. Okay, finite. So I believe that multiverse is basically like there's a bunch of universes that are similar to ours, but slightly different.

[B]

Mandela effect.

[A]

Yeah. Copy, copy, copy, copies. This idea of there being another domain or another dimension is. I believe that when. I believe we're all in a process of evolution, purposeful evolution, teleological evolution. And I believe that obviously humanity is not the final stage. I believe that we evolve beyond this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we get to a point where we no longer require bodies and we just exist as complexes of energy that forms form a network. And I believe this network that we form is able from its frequency, to generate its own dimension, its own reality.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. So I believe that there are other domains, interdimensional beings, etcetera, that are able to exist in these other domains that.

[B]

Interested through your psychedelic experiences, Is that how you came to that conclusion?

[A]

You know, I would say actually more so. My studies of philosophy, logic, mathematics. Yeah, the psychedelics definitely allowed me to experience that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the studying is what allowed me to understand what it really said. Because you can have these experiences and you can interpret it like, if you like, I've experienced the white light of the source, but someone else might be like, oh, that's God. Or, you know, any. Any of these other. Oh, that's nirvana or whatever. But understanding what it truly is, which is the fundamental basis waves of reality that are basically the building blocks of existence, you can actually get a handle on what things actually are.

[B]

Yeah. That always fascinated me with psychedelics because you'll see some people saying they saw God.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But was that your subconscious just projecting an image of God?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I believe that people did experience God. I just don't think a lot of people know what God is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So when you say God, it's like. Well, what do you mean? Right. Like a bearded man in the clouds.

[B]

That's what. Yeah. Christians.

[A]

Yeah. Or do you believe that, like, I do, that we are all God expressing itself in different ways? Yeah.

[B]

So you believe every single human. Or is. Are you all living things God?

[A]

Oh, everything. I think everything is an expression of divinity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm at various levels of. Of evolution.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, there's a difference between us and Iraq.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

But ultimately, everything is from the same source, the same essence, one creator. The same light. Interesting. Yeah. I mean I wouldn't call it a creator, but like, not in like a monotheistic sort of way. But there is one. One source of energy.

[B]

Yeah. So like trees, rocks, everything.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. All of it. It's just like this. When you go to sleep and dream, it seems like you're in a world that's out there, but it's a really a world built from your internal mental patterning. So it seems like it's out there. It seems like the dream chair is over there, but it's not. It's all in your mind. Likewise everything. This reality seems like it's out there, but it's really happening inside here. All of it is a. Is a projection of our internal.

[B]

Yeah, I've always really been fascinated by dreams. Have you done a lot of studying in the dream world?

[A]

I have actually. I think that understanding how to do dream analysis is super important.

[B]

Agreed. Everyone should learn that.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

So much symbolism and meaning in your dreams.

[A]

Oh absolutely. Dream analysis is incredibly important. Are you familiar with like Carl Jung at all?

[B]

I've heard of him.

[A]

Carl Jung is fantastic. He's a student of Freud, one of the most influential psychologists ever. He was, if you ever heard like introvert, extrovert. He coined those terms. He's the one that popularized like the shadow self and shadow work and all that. That's all Carl Jung. And he was actually obsessed with the Gnostics. What I talked about earlier, he even wore a Gnostic ring. One of the codices that were found in nag Hammadi in 1945 are actually named after Carl Jung. The young codices. So Carl Jung saw essentially like the myths of the Gnostics of this like evil God that creates a fake reality that we're then trapped in and have to realize that we're God, etc. He saw that as like in the same way you analyze dreams, he saw it as like a, a projection of the consciousness of the time. So you can essentially study these ancient mythologies the same way you would do dream analysis. That's essentially how he, how he looked at it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That guy was ahead of his time, man.

[A]

Oh absolutely.

[B]

To invent all of that.

[A]

Oh, he was, he, he's a genius. Monumental genius.

[B]

Yeah. I always thought it was interesting how the brightest minds and the like most significant scientists all lived in the same era. Have you noticed that?

[A]

That is interesting. You know, that's, that's nothing that I've never really thought about that. But yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like when you think about it, it's Very interesting. And then today there doesn't seem to be that. That boom in science.

[A]

I would agree with that for sure. It seems like there really is a lack of intellectual exploration in a unique way.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder if that's by design or if it's just the way things go, you know?

[A]

You know, I think it really is a product of the way that our world is set up right now is that everything is such a distraction.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Everything from, from religion to money to politics to, to even, like I said, scientific materialism that tells you you're nothing but dead matter dirt. You're worthless. Like, everything's telling you you're worthless. Like, science is like, oh, you're nothing but a random accent. Religion is like, oh, you're dirty rotten sinner. And you know, the, the economic system is like, oh, you're just a number. Your, your value is almost how much money you make or whatever. Everything is so, so degrading and so distracting that we don't really have the time to be able to look within. But I do think that a really way powerful way to combat that is the power of virality on social media. And that's one of the main things that I'm trying to do, is make higher consciousness go viral.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To wake the world the hell up because it's been asleep for so long. And what I'm essentially doing is making this ancient knowledge that the church literally killed to keep secret go viral and reach millions. And people are really resonating with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And starting to understand that there's way more to reality than they thought.

[B]

Yeah. You're blowing up right now. So you think the Church intentionally was killing people? Oh, because of this information?

[A]

Oh, sure. Wow. Oh, 100 they. There was inquisitions, Crusades. There's a group of Christians called the Cathars in the medieval period, and they launched a crusade against them and absolutely wiped them out. Holy crap. And the Cathars were extremely interesting in that, like the Gnostics, they believed that this world was created by Satan and they believed that Satan essentially tricked the world into believing that he was God and used the Bible to do that.

[B]

I've actually heard that.

[A]

Yeah. It's very interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they hated the cross because they saw that they were Christians, so they loved Jesus. Jesus, but they hated the cross because they're like, this is what killed our teacher. And so they would, they would smash crosses whenever they would see them because they were like, why? You know, it's like if your dad got killed with a noose hanging A little noose around your neck. It's like, why would you. Why would you do that? So the. The Catholic Church absolutely wiped them out, launched a crusade, and the Inquisition was actually primarily started to root out the Cathar heresy. Yeah. So fascinating. Oh, yeah, they were. Churches hated all this.

[B]

Jeez. Yeah. I've actually heard from Billy Carson. I don't know if this is true, but the Vatican has a lot of ancient texts that they're not letting people get access to.

[A]

Yeah. I do know that. I'm not exactly too sure about, you know, I don't know what's there or to the degree, but I'm sure that there's a lot of stuff in there that would be very interesting to see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did you uncover these texts? I'm sure they were banned or hard to access some of them. Right. These ancient texts.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, they're actually not that hard to access because they were like. They were discovered in 1945, buried near the tombs of Egypt. Whoa. And so they were buried for, like, 1600 years because the church was trying to eradicate all these texts. And someone at the time gathered together these ancient texts, put them in a jar, buried it in the tombs of Egypt, and then almost 2,000 years later, someone dug it up not that long ago in 1945. And so that's where we get, like, the secret Book of John, the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Thomas, the first Apocalypse of James, which is Jesus's brother. All of these incredible texts that are more or less all saying the same thing. The. The point is to realize your divinity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like in one of the texts, the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says, when you drink from my mouth, I will become you and you will become me, and the secret things will be revealed to you. Meaning when you understand what I'm saying, I become you, you become me, you become a Christ effectively, and you understand what reality is. He says, you achieve. You achieve immortality and you're able to rule over the universe.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Meaning you realize that your soul is immortal, you're not a body, and that you are part of the one infinite source that generated all existence. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Growing up as a Christian, I really feared death.

[A]

Oh, death or hell, I guess hell. But, yeah, I was terrified.

[B]

In my eyes, I thought it was death because I was doing bad things, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I thought I was going down that route.

[A]

Oh, for sure. I mean, I was terrified. I think it's extremely psychologically traumatizing for a child. It's Actually known as rts, Religious Trauma Syndrome, which can mimic the effects of PTSD and cptsd. Wow. Extremely damaging. And you can have, like, a lot of mental issues from, from trying to rip yourself away from such a psychologically traumatizing. People don't realize, like, how bad it is to teach a child that they are fundamentally dirty rotten sinners and they're going to literally burn for eternity unless they do everything that this invisible being that can read their mind says that, you know, follow that. Exactly. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. When you put it that way, does sound pretty extreme.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, we're so used to it. We hear it every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's wild.

[B]

Yeah. And I've had, like, former Mormons on the show, and it's really tough for them, too.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Mormonism is even more harsh.

[B]

Yeah. There's levels to it.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely, man.

[B]

It's nuts. But I'm glad you wake people up, man. I'm sure you get inspiring messages every day about lives you're changing, so.

[A]

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm always happy to, happy to see when people say, you know, that I've got them thinking in new ways and. Yeah, and I think that's the main thing is, like, look, I don't want people to believe what I'm saying. I want people to understand, like, why I'm saying it so they can come to the conclusions themselves.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if someone just goes, oh, Morg said it, so I'm gonna believe it doesn't do anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The whole point is like, to get, to get people to start thinking, which is so hard. But once you do it, you unlock. People don't realize that, you know, it's like working out. If you want to build a muscle, you have to work out every day. Yeah. You can reach higher levels of consciousness. You can. You just have to, you do have to put in the work.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think that's been measured, that you can achieve higher levels of consciousness in a scientific setting, or is it kind of subjective?

[A]

Well, I mean, it's. It's inherently subjective because it's consciousness. And so science has never been able to engage with true subjective consciousness because it's literally outside their realm. That deals with objective, measurable.

[B]

Right. Because science can't even prove a soul exists yet. Right?

[A]

No, it's completely outside the realm of what they are able to do. Right. So that's, that's in the realm of philosophy, where you get to metaphysics.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Which is really interesting because science Denies metaphysics. Right. They say, oh, metaphysics is false. But it's really funny because they really don't understand metaphysics enough because they. They claim reality is material. Right. That's actually a metaphysical claim. Anytime that you claim reality is something, that's a claim of metaphysics. So if you say reality is material, that's a metaphysical claim. If you say reality is immaterial, that's a metaphysical claim. Doesn't matter. As soon as you say reality is this or that, that's a metaphysical claim. So they're making metaphysical claims while saying metaphysics doesn't exist, which just shows that that's just not that area. It's like if you're someone who's an amazing chef, you wouldn't go to them to have surgery. Because just because they're a good chef doesn't mean they're a good surgeon. So an amazing scientist might not know anything about philosophy, the mind, the soul, etc.

[B]

Yeah. That's why, going back to earlier, it's good that you know a little bit of everything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You can take the principles from everything.

[A]

Yeah, I think that that's so important when I really try to get people to understand. There's this story called the Five Blind Men and the Elephant. It's about these five blind guys. They've never seen an elephant before. They've never heard about an elephant before, but there's an elephant there, so obviously they can't see it. So they all start feeling the elephant to figure out what it is. Someone feels the leg and goes, oh, an elephant is like a tree. Someone feels the side and goes, no, it's. It's like a wall. Someone feels the tail and goes like. No, it's like a rope. Someone feels the trunk and goes, no, it's like a snake. Someone feels the ear and goes, no, it's like a blanket. And so all these people are arguing about, no, the elephant is this, the elephant that. Really, the elephant is all these things. You just have to have the overarching perspective to understand that.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And so whether you're dealing with science or the occult or quantum physics or philosophy or psychology, it's all just different parts of the elephant.

[B]

Yeah. Or if you're sword swallowing, that helps too, right?

[A]

Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, like, honestly, my. My stunt work is an expression of my philosophy, so I swallow swords to represent, like, the destruction of the old self and the creation of the new self.

[B]

Wow. So you do it with symbolism behind it.

[A]

Oh, 100. Yeah, they're all. They're all very like, symbolic, ritualistic. Nice.

[B]

Who taught you how to do that?

[A]

I'm all self taught.

[B]

Really? Yeah. Because you think something like that you would really want a good instructor.

[A]

I mean, that would be the ideal. But I've been self taught my entire life. I mean, I was homeschooled. So I. I'm self taught in every. Every particular.

[B]

Everyone leaning towards that route when I have kids.

[A]

You know, I think that it's a better route than public school. I'm. I don't like the curriculum I was raised in because it was a strict Christian curriculum. I was taught that the earth was 6,000 years old, that humans hung out with dinosaurs, so that I wasn't a fan of. But yeah, the public school systems are pretty toxic.

[B]

Yeah. It's just indoctrination. Right.

[A]

Oh, brain. It's brainwashing.

[B]

Yeah, Straight brainwashing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

History. His story.

[A]

Oh, yo. It's totally. It's totally brainwashing. From. Yes, exactly. A patriarchal perspective. Just. And our school system is based on the Prussian model of schooling, which is the factory model, which means that our school systems are basically designed not to create free thinkers, but to create soldiers, workers and consumers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

And that's how I was. I was just. I was on the route to be that if I didn't drop out, I probably would have went the 9 to 5 route, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's what they drive into you every day from day one. So.

[B]

Because living in a capitalistic society, you really fear about making a living as you get older and being able to sustain yourself and your family when all that.

[A]

That's, you know, such the emphasis is just on money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It really puts you in a. In a system where it's rigged against you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Especially these days.

[A]

Oh, it's totally right.

[B]

God, it's hard to make a living these days.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of these kids are coming out in debt and it's. It's awful.

[A]

It's awful. I mean, I think one of the major things that we have in this world that's an issue is, is that everything comes down to money. And so we're trapped in this rat race, unable to connect to our true selves. Because we're so fucking tired. Yeah. Because from working all day we barely get home. And what do you feel like doing? Just, oh my God, I'm going to put on Netflix. And then. Because that's all I have the energy for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you're just, you're. And that's by design, for sure. Yeah.

[B]

I'm very fascinated with how ancient civilizations operated if money was this important.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I'm not too familiar with that. But what I do know is that in ancient Greece they put a huge importance on free thinking and critical thinking. Like one of the first things they taught you in ancient Greece was rhetoric so that you could tell when someone like a politician was trying to influence you.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. The first thing they taught you was how to point out spot logical fallacies, how to think logically for the very specific reason, because basically like, hey, there are these guys who are going to try and to play on your emotions and use fallacies to try and convince you. So the first thing they taught you was how to spot this. You'll only get taught that today if you take it as like in a college course.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is fascinating though. I'd love to be in a community of, of people that operated like that.

[A]

Wouldn't that be great?

[B]

It'd be so cool.

[A]

I mean, like, our world can be anything we want it to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just a shithole because, you know, we have a shitty system. It doesn't have to be that way.

[B]

It's because right now I walk around pretty guarded. If I'm being honest, people are trying to take advantage of me. I'm sure you deal with this to having followers on social media, you know.

[A]

Oh yeah. I mean, so I was actually, actually was on a few seasons of a TV show for a while and I was kind of like in the Hollywood space. And I really had a moment to decide, well, am I going to continue going in Hollywood or am I going to work on like my YouTube channel, my philosophy and my books and all that. And I chose that because the Hollywood world is just so fake and everyone wants to make you into a product that's just. They just want to want to make you into something safe, something sellable. And it's very soul destroying.

[B]

Yeah, they dehumanize you, right?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

That's why you see a lot of people in Hollywood get lost.

[A]

Oh, totally.

[B]

Go down dark rabbit holes.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You really do lose when you're just treated as a product. It's very dehumanizing.

[B]

Well, respect, because I know the, the path you chose is much more difficult probably.

[A]

I appreciate that. I mean, I'm really happy with it. I think it's a lot more.

[B]

I think it's paying off now. But yeah, yeah, for me, same thing. Like I could have went down that route of, you know, Nine to five, Making a lot of money or whatever. Yeah. For a good reputable company. But I wouldn't be fulfilled.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Right. It's like if you look down the road and you have all this money, but you don't feel fulfilled, what's no point? No point.

[B]

Even if you had a billion dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're not filled. It's a waste in my eyes.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I did want to talk about the summoning rituals because a lot of people hear that and get scared. Right. But I'd be very curious your perspective on summoning rituals.

[A]

Yeah. So when it comes to summoning. Right. So one thing that I do study is magic in the occult. And in magic in the occult, you can do rituals with demons or angels, invocations, evocations, etc. And right off the bat, that can sound kind of either scary or crazy. One of the two, scary or crazy. And the idea here is that what you're essentially doing is powerful psychology. Because the unconscious mind doesn't communicate with language. It communicates through symbolism.

[B]

When you say unconscious, is that subconscious?

[A]

It's essentially the same thing as subconscious. Yeah. You can use them interchangeably. So subconscious, unconscious. Yeah, Some people make a differentiation, but it's, it's. It's unnecessary. Same thing. So in the unconscious is. Is like the vat. What we have in consciousness is just a tiny little piece of who we are, what we are. Underneath it all is a vast reservoir of patterns of energy. Essentially, in psychological terms, they'd be called archetypes and complexes that are interacting and influencing our behavior. And so in terms of magic, what you're essentially doing is learning how to communicate with your unconscious by understanding symbolism. So when you understand symbolism and you work in a ritualistic space, that's something that your unconscious mind can understand. So it's basically like you're hacking your unconscious and these symbols are like the code to do that.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So it's, it's psychology. What you're doing is you're going into your mind, you're rooting into the unconscious, and you're programming certain aspects there. And so when you're working with, let's say, angels and demons, these are symbols. They're not literal angels and demons like they're described in the Bible.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But what they are are symbols that you can use to access different structures in your mind. So I'll give you an example. Like, in like, there's the idea of, like, demonic evocation, where you will do a ritual, call forth a Demon. Have a dialogue with that demon and speak with it, talk with it, ask what it wants. Things.

[B]

Yeah. Like a Ouija board.

[A]

No, I mean, you could use. But you. It. There are many different ways to do it. Like, what's typically done is Solomonic magic, which is. If you've ever heard of the Ars Goetia.

[B]

I haven't.

[A]

The Ars Goetia is essentially a grimoire of Solomonic magic with basically like a list of 72 demons.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That you can contact.

[B]

So that's within everyone's subconscious. These 72 demons?

[A]

Yes, essentially. Now, not those specific. Yes, more or less. That is. That is right now. The thing is, though, is that it's not that those literal demons are in your mind, but those are the. The symbols that you use to contact what it. What it corresponds to.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So just like cat is in a cat, but you can use cat to refer to a cat. It's kind of like that. So these demonic symbols or demons aren't actually demons. They're archetypes in the mind that you can use to. To access those, to like, hone in, to like, tune into that certain area of the mind.

[B]

And where did the negative connotation for demons come into play? Is that because of Christianity?

[A]

I mean, Christianity definitely had a huge negative comment connotation. You had this concept in Greece called, like the diamond, which is essentially like a guide. Yeah. But yeah, Christianity really started to take control and see anything that wasn't part of the monotheistic God as. As evil.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But so when you do, like a demonic evocation, this is very similar to, let's say there's a modern psychological system called ifs, which is internal family systems.

[B]

Yeah, I heard of it.

[A]

Yeah, it's great. And so essentially what you do is, is it basically posits that all of us are. Has disassociative identity disorder to some degree. Wow. We all have these multiple fighting personalities within ourselves. And you can understand this by, like, if you ever did something stupid and then you're like, oh, I'm so sorry, that's not me. That's not who I am. I don't know what came over me. That's an example of a part of you taking over. This would be analogous to demon possession. But it's not literally demon possession. It's a part of the psyche that's becoming activated and taking over and controlling. So in ifs, what you do is. It's called unblending. You access that part of you and you project it out in front of you as an Image as a form, and you have a dialogue with it. You give it a. You give it a name, you talk to it, you ask what it wants, and then you redirect its energy. It's like, look, I know that you're causing me to drink when I'm in pain, but look, that's not helping. Let's transfer that energy into something more productive. This is the exact same thing as demonic evocation, where you're evoking a demon and you're saying, hey, look, there's these problems in my life. We need to reorganize stuff. We need to get this energy moving in a more positive direction. So modern psychology is doing demonic invocation without even knowing it. It's the same thing.

[B]

Damn. Very fascinating.

[A]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah, I guess. Which of these 72 do you know when to talk to and all that? Like, does it just call out to you?

[A]

So I think that that's like, a very personal thing because it's subjective, right? So it's not about objective reality. It's. It's subjective. So it's what? So basically, like, you could work with, let's say, if you wanted to work with, like, your ego. Yeah, that's usually Satan. Like, Satan is usually representative of the ego. Interesting, because it's like, oh, I am God. There is no other. I am the high and mighty. Whereas the ego says, I'm the only self, but really you're the higher self. Your ego is just a tiny little part of you. And so, like, Satan would be typically a symbol for the ego. But here's the thing you don't. Like, there's this secret society called the Typhonian Order, and they actually use the HP Lovecraft mythos. So they all do rituals, but with Lovecraftian entities, which clearly, he. He's a fiction writer. He just made them up. Yeah, but that's the point. It doesn't matter. Like, you could use Satan, or you could use Darth Vader, or you could use Sauron. It's not that these things. It's that these things represent, like, all, like, Satan, Darth Vader, and Sauron. I think you kind of get like, a feeling they all represent something similar.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They don't exist. But there's this energy pattern that you can. When you think of it, you, you know, put that. Put that image in your mind. It. You. You can access it. Yeah.

[B]

That's really cool. I know you've done a lot of research into secret societies. Are they still as prevalent as they were back in. Back in the day?

[A]

I think that they're definitely dying out because modern, in, in modern terms, you know, with like the virality of the Internet and everything like that, secrecy isn't something that spreads very well. So I think that a lot of them are struggling, but I do think that some very powerful secret societies do exist. And I think that that is very true. I think that there are some very dangerous ones and I think that there are some. Some decent ones. I am. Oh, I always tell people always be skeptical of secret societies because I'm not saying they're all bad, but just if you join a system where secrecy is so heavily emphasized, it just opens up an environment that is. Has the possibility of there being manipulation, coercion, no accountability. So it's just very dangerous. So. And there's no need for it. So like back in the day, secrecy was because you had to do this or you'd be killed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it made sense. Today it's just elitism bullshit. Like, it doesn't need to be that way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. When I think of secret, I think of like cult.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Like a negative cult.

[A]

Yeah. And, and so that's kind of what my information I'm trying to do here is like bring the secrets out into the open. Like, they don't need to be the true secrets. Right. Are. Because if you, if you are truly someone who's involved with secrets, what your job is, is to tell everyone the secret. Right. But it be. But it's still a secret because not everyone can understand it. That's why Jesus said for those with the eyes to see and the ears to hear, because there are some, like, you can shout it from the rooftops, but only certain people are going to really hear what it is that you're saying. So secrets are secret when done in the right way. Not because you're trying to hide it, but because you're trying to tell everybody.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You're in a very interesting spot because you've learned a lot about just life. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So.

[B]

And now you want to distill that information.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, my goal really is. I mean, I just look at so much potential that people have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just say, oh, I want people to become the best versions of themselves that they can be. And then this, everything else is like pitted against them. Their whole life, religion, culture, family, whatever, everything is just so. So against your ability to, to thrive. Right. And it doesn't need to be that way. And I want people to realize that they have the power to be whatever they Want to be.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Family was a tough one for me. I always felt like the outlier. Always. Yeah.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

You know, yeah. I'm sure you can relate.

[A]

Do you think a lot of that was the. From the religious upbringing or just first.

[B]

Yeah. But also the educational upbringing. I feel like a lot of parents, or at least our generation's parents, valued school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Public education.

[A]

Yeah. I certainly can agree where I felt like an outlier. For sure.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. So I wanted to rebel against the school system. So that was always a big fight, especially in an Asian household. But I feel like my generation's waking up to that.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

You know, slowly but surely. I think colleges are going to be struggling in the next 10 to 15 years. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You could see attendance rates already going down, application rates are going down, even to the Ivy Leagues.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's interesting.

[B]

You're starting to see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, dude, it's pretty much a scam. You're in like 200k of debt.

[A]

Well, I mean, it's pretty ridiculous. And you just get like a paper you can put on the wall because.

[B]

No one will ever ask you for.

[A]

Like, I studied, you know, like I said, philosophy, quantum mechanics and physics and all that, but I would just literally order school textbooks and just go through them myself. You can do that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's like, there's lectures posted online from like school, campus, YouTube University. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. And it's just as long as you have the will to actually do it, it's just as good. Yeah, yeah. Or if not better.

[B]

Yeah. I'd rather learn on my own, at my own pace. I'm not, you know, being hold back by the other classmates because I like to learn fast. I watch stuff on 2x speed.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You know, freak with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm training my body 1x.

[A]

There's no time for that.

[B]

Hell no. I'm training my mind right now on audible to do 3X. I'm slowly working my way up to 3X.

[A]

That's pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got a friend that does 4x.

[A]

Really? Yeah. I'll do that if I'm like reviewing a video, but like to actually absorb the information. That's impressive.

[B]

If he absorbs it, it's. Yeah, it's impressive. Yeah, for sure. Okay, what else we got here? Mystery schools. Very fascinating topics. So do you think those actually still exist or do you think that was something in the past?

[A]

Yeah. So mystery school is essentially synonymous with secret Society, they're pretty much the same thing. So I think that mystery schools were very prevalent in the past. There was the Eleusinian mysteries, the Dionysian mysteries, the Pythagoras, Pythagorean mysteries. I mean, so a lot of people don't know this, but Pythagoras had his own secret society. Really most people just know him as the triangle guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he basically, Pythagoras said he was almost like the first simulation theory guy because he said all reality is math. Reality is math, like code expressing itself. He said all is number, number rules the universe. And so he started this secret society where you had to take a vow of silence for, I believe, five years. You couldn't say a word for five years to even be let in. And then they would teach you the secrets of mathematics. And one of the symbols that they worshiped was a symbol called the Tetraktis, which is essentially this, this triangle that has numbers cascading down, starting with 1, then 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6, etc. And essentially their belief that reality starts from a unity and then mathematically unfolds itself into a multiplicity. And that's the world we live in today. And you see this everywhere, like the same, you know, whether it's Pythagoras or the Gnostics or Kabbalah or Hinduism, all of these systems are saying the same thing, that reality stems from a mind that is expressing itself in different modalities to be able to understand what it is.

[B]

Yeah, I had a Kabbalah expert on that one. Resonated with me. Actually.

[A]

Kabbalah is very interesting. Yeah, I study Kabbalah as well. Kabbalah is very heavy in the occult and mathematics, or not mathematics, but the occult and secret societies, like most secret societies, are going to be heavily based on Kabbalah because basically what Kabbalah is like, the tree of life diagram, the tree of life diagram is again, it's a symbolic system that's a map of the psyche. So you have this tree of life diagram with a different Sephiroth and on, on the different Sephiroth are assigned things like God names and angels and planets, etc. But these are all symbols. And so when you want to access a different, a certain part of your psyche, like if you want to access divinity, then you would, you would go to the symbolism associated with Katera, the crown. If you wanted to associate justice, you would go to Gevura, which is justice, severity, willpower, etc, so it's essentially giving you a set of symbols to allow your mind to hone in and focus on the aspect of your life that you want to cultivate and then tell your unconscious, work with me on this thing.

[B]

Very fascinating. Well, Morgue, this was great. I think we'll end off with a little sword demonstration.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds good, my friend.

[B]

Before you do that, where can people find you?

[A]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You can find me on Morgue Official. M O R G U E Official. On pretty much all platforms. YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all that.

[B]

Awesome. And stay tuned, guys. We're gonna do something cool here.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We're all right.

[A]

Ready for this?

[B]

Yeah, let's do it.

[A]

All right, here we go.

[B]

Oh, my God. This thing's long. No way. Dude. Got the whole thing. Oh, my God. Dude, good job. Wow.

[A]

Nice, man.

[B]

How long is this thing?

[A]

I never mentioned it.

[B]

Wow. Check them out, guys. Morgue Official. Peace. Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting. And here's the episode.