Most Artists Can’t Do What LaRussell Did... | Larussell | DSH #1908

Summary

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Digital Social Hour – Ep. “Most Artists Can’t Do What LaRussell Did...” | LaRussell | DSH #1908 (April 9, 2026)

Episode Overview

Host Sean Kelly welcomes LaRussell, an independent Bay Area hip-hop artist and entrepreneur, for a candid and energetic conversation. The pair delve into LaRussell’s unique path as an artist, his innovative hustle outside mainstream music channels, the realities of independence in the industry, building organic communities, and what it really takes behind the scenes—both creatively and in business.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Creative Process: Spirituality, Flow, and Speed

• LaRussell describes his creative process as highly intuitive and spiritual.
  • “It is very spiritual. Like, the universe really gives. Sometimes I'll write and I don't even realize what I'm writing until I go hear it back later. And it's like, damn…It just comes through. You feel me? It is like a channel opening.” (00:00, 12:25)
  • Almost all his songs are written and recorded in about 15 minutes, highlighting the organic, non-forced nature of his music creation. (11:46)

Work Ethic, Drive, & Roots

• LaRussell’s relentless work ethic:
  • 40 albums released since 2018, sometimes seven in a year. (01:14)
  • “Are you playing the quantity game?” Host asks. LaRussell: “No, I'm just playing the love game. I just enjoy what I do. If I make something I love, I share it.” (01:31)
  • Despite outward success, he doesn’t feel he’s “made it” yet: “Everyone in my family isn't retired and able to just do what they desire. So. No, not yet. I'm successful, though. I'm very successful.” (03:12-03:23)

Background & Upbringing

• Inspired by his father’s hustle and his own experience growing up in Vallejo, CA, LaRussell emphasizes hands-on business acumen and direct experience in his rise. (08:15)
• “I know how to market and I know how to promote and I know how to go, go get the money...to sell and flip whatever.” (08:15)
• Host and guest bond over immigrant-parent hustle mentalities and building work ethic from family examples. (03:53-04:09)

Navigating the Music Industry’s Evolution

• Music has democratized: “Anybody’s game” now with new tools and platforms. (01:55)
• Compares this shift to the NBA hypothetically allowing anyone in if they go viral for a shot—even if they didn’t follow the ‘traditional’ path. (01:55)
• Most artists, he claims, can’t or won’t do what he did due to the sheer investment of time, knowledge, and money:
  • “Most artists can't do what I did. It's too much work. It's too much effort. It's too much knowledge. It's too much investment. They won't do it.” (00:00, 22:05)
• Major label system remains dominant because most artists aren’t prepared to handle all aspects of independence. (22:05-23:18)

Monetization & Beyond Music

• LaRussell has excelled at monetizing his art outside traditional music sales—especially through backyard shows, in-person events, merch, and creative hustles.
  • “I've been really great at monetizing myself outside of music.” (07:58)
  • “I sell everything…basketballs. I sell microphones. I'm about to get into home goods…toilet paper, paper towels, and forks and spoons and plates and just all the shit you use.” (29:08)
• He views artistry as just one pillar—also focusing on community events, festivals, and branded goods. (29:08-29:42)

Business Structure & Investment

• LaRussell manages his business as a collective, not a traditional label (“Good Company”), emphasizing mutual benefit rather than control: “We don't sign artists, we just help people. Anything we work on, we'll get royalties in, but we don't own anyone's shit or sign anyone.” (21:35-21:51)
• Large financial investments: Sometimes $100k+ a month just to operate, with big event months hitting $250k or more. (24:01-25:01)

Touring & Community-Building

• Prefers regional “stop dates” to traditional touring—spends time embedding within local communities, especially “underdog” cities.
  • “A lot of artists can only tour major markets, right. I skip major markets sometimes and go straight to the def cities, you feel me? That no one else goes to. And then I build a lifetime fan.” (16:42)
• Highlights the difference in audience support between oversaturated (“bougie”) markets like LA and underserved cities that deeply appreciate artists’ presence. (17:16)

Relationship with Technology & AI

• Uses AI for marketing, routing, and operational tasks—but never for the music itself. (10:43)
  • “I don't use any AI for music…it's a manual process for me.” (10:43-11:06)

In-Person Impact vs. Social Metrics

• Social media numbers can be misleading; the real impact happens in person.
  • “I have 2 million followers on Instagram, but...there's like 10 million, 20 million people who know me. I go to every city I want and people see me from the airport till when I go back home. You feel me?” (14:08-14:47)
• “That's why I tell people to do in person events too...That builds a lot of impact for you.” (15:15)

Artist Collaborations and Manifestation

• Has collaborated with big names (Lil Jon, Busta Rhymes, Snoop Dogg, Wiz Khalifa), but does not maintain a “dream list”; he takes opportunities as they come. (28:30-28:44)
• Only specific goal left is to work with Charlie Wilson. (28:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative flow:
  “Every song anyone has ever heard from me has been made in like 15 minutes.” (11:46, LaRussell)

• On independence:
  "Most artists can't do what I did. It's too much work. It's too much effort. It's too much knowledge. It's too much investment. They won't do it." (00:00, repeated at 22:05, LaRussell)

• On fame vs. financial independence:
  "Fame is in—if fame didn't help you make money, it would be at the bottom for me." (17:52, LaRussell)

• On the hustle:
  “I sell everything. I sell basketballs. I sell microphone. I sell everything. I'm actually about to get into, like, home goods.” (29:08, LaRussell)

• On community building:
  “That's how we build up touring as artists and just your presence. But like, I'm an artist who really got this big off in real life experience. People see me and touch me and. And know I'm. I'm there.” (15:25, LaRussell)

• On investing in his career:
  “I've seen you say on another show, you spent hundreds of thousands in a month.”
  LaRussell: “Once on this, 100 every month.” (24:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• LaRussell’s creative process & spiritual flow — 00:00, 12:07, 12:25
• Rising as an independent artist — 01:01, 01:14, 03:12, 03:26
• Music industry’s open access & changes since 2018 — 01:47, 01:55
• Influence of upbringing and hustle mentality — 03:53, 08:15
• Monetizing beyond music (shows, merch, festivals) — 07:58, 08:15, 29:08
• Touring and city-building — 16:04, 16:42
• AI and keeping the creative process human — 10:43, 11:06
• Real vs. online influence, building in-person community — 14:08, 15:12, 15:38
• On money and business investment — 24:01, 25:01, 25:12
• LaRussell’s business structure (“Good Company”) — 21:27, 21:35
• Festival economics and upfront losses — 25:22, 26:46
• Future collaborations and dream goals — 28:05, 28:11, 28:30

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LaRussell’s Tone and Ethos

LaRussell’s language is authentic, direct, sometimes gritty, but always passionate and focused on self-driven growth. He is candid about the cost (in effort, money, and knowledge) of forging his path as an independent artist and community builder.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode of Digital Social Hour provides a rare, unfiltered look at the true grind, mindset, and business smarts required to stand out and create longevity in the modern music industry—straight from one of its emerging innovators. Listeners leave with a sense of how much goes on behind the scenes, and how embracing both the hustle and artistry can redefine an artist’s relationship to community and success.

Transcript

[A]

It is very spiritual. Like, the universe really gives. Sometimes I'll write and I don't even realize what I'm writing until I go hear it back later. And it's like, damn. And that shit really can't. It just comes through. You feel me? It is like a channel opening. Most artists can't do what I did. It's too much work. It's too much effort. It's too much knowledge. It's too much investment. They won't do it. That's why if you look on a chart of all the top songs, you know, these are major label artists who are getting royalty deals. If fame didn't help you make money, it would be at the bottom for me.

[B]

All right, guys, we got La Russell on the pod today out there in the Bay Area. Represent. What's up, my man?

[A]

Yes, sir. I'm.

[B]

Well, what's new in your world? You perform in the backyard last night?

[A]

No, we actually had a session yesterday, though. We been doing this series where we bring in other artists. So we've had Lil John and Montel Jordan. Yesterday we had a independent artist named a niece. That's really dope.

[B]

Nice. Yeah, you do a lot of collabs. All right.

[A]

Yeah. Now, you know, I. I got 40 albums, and most of it is no collaboration. So now I've been in the era of. Of spreading it.

[B]

God damn. 40 albums? That's got to be. That's got to be up there.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I mean, 40, geez, that's like, what, two, three a year?

[A]

Nah, I've done seven in a year. I got four albums, and I didn't start until 2018.

[B]

Okay, so you're. Are you playing the quantity game? Because I'm doing that too. With pods?

[A]

No, I'm just playing the love game. I just enjoy what I do. If I make something I love, I share it.

[B]

Okay, so no pressure. You're just. You're just vibing.

[A]

Yeah, I'm just. I'm just flowing.

[B]

Yeah. Cuz I know sometimes artists feel pressure to drop shit. Right?

[A]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a new era.

[B]

Yeah. How has it changed since 18? Like, has it been drastic or gradual? Like, what's the music industry looking like these days?

[A]

I mean, there's a lot more tools now, so I think it changed completely because anybody. It's anybody's game. Like, imagine if the NBA opened up to the world and you didn't really have to, like, go to college or play superbly in high school. If you could just get into the league, if you went viral. For a shot you made online, you know, so that how it's changed?

[B]

Well, NBA is kind of heading that way now. All the best players are European, right? Yeah.

[A]

I mean, but they're still good.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's facts. You'll still.

[A]

They still have to be good.

[B]

You're a Warriors fan, aren't you?

[A]

I don't even really watch sports, but yeah, I'm from the turf. You feel me? So I'm a fan of the turf.

[B]

Damn, no sports. Come on.

[A]

Yeah, I play a lot. I just don't. I don't really have time to like, sit down and watch.

[B]

I feel I don't watch full games anymore. Actually. When I was a kid, I used to watch a ton, but yeah, I just watch.

[A]

Yeah, I'll see highlights and shit on the phone, but I haven't watched the game in forever.

[B]

Yeah, Seriously. Just locked in. You're grinding all day.

[A]

Yeah, I'm hustling.

[B]

You still got the same drive?

[A]

Yeah, more. More. Even though.

[B]

Even though you made it, you got more.

[A]

I haven't made it yet. I got far more now, you know, I'm getting closer to making it, but I haven't made it yet.

[B]

You wouldn't say you made it yet.

[A]

No, I wouldn't say so. You know, everyone in my family isn't retired and able to just do what they desire. So. No, not yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm successful, though. I'm very successful.

[B]

So that's the main goal for you? Retire the fam.

[A]

Yeah. Myself, my family, my. My key, you know, I just, I just. Once everybody is able to like, y' all good, like, you don't have to do nothing. Go do something that you love to do so you could be successful at it then. Then we made it.

[B]

Respect. Respect. Yeah, I can't. I can't relate to that, but I can respect it, you know? You know, I grew up and my mom, she was already making it, I guess, so I don't have to retire her, but I can respect that. Dude, that's cool.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. No different. Where'd you grow up?

[B]

Grew up in Jersey, middle class. But I will say that she was an immigrant. Came here from China with 20 bucks. Became a self made millionaire through a 9 to 5 job. So I got my work. Yeah. Yeah. I got my work ethic through her, you know, So I owe her a lot.

[A]

Incredible. And you're like, she still taught you to work. Like you didn't. You didn't grow up spoiled and you still wanted to build your own thing. Yeah.

[B]

All the odds were Stacked against me because I grew up only child, so a lot of only childs end up screwed up. I grew up in a nice white neighborhood with a lot of Asian people, so I could have got complacent, but I think that immigrant mentality saved me, honestly.

[A]

Yeah, you know, you could have turned out white.

[B]

Yeah, I could have turned out white. I, I saw how my, my 10 year reunion was last week, so I seen how a lot of people turned out. Did you go to your high school reunion?

[A]

I did it. I didn't. Mine was a few years back and I didn't get to go.

[B]

Why didn't you go?

[A]

I didn't really have a desire and I was really still grinding then. I damn near made it at that point too. But yeah, I just didn't, I didn't have a deep desire to go. I didn't really. I graduated from a continuation school, you know, like high school. I didn't really do super well and shit. I didn't care. Already knew what I wanted to do in a way, so I didn't give it much, you know, I didn't apply myself much in school.

[B]

Okay, so you probably had a lot of people like doubting you earlier on then.

[A]

Nah, not really. Just because I was always hella smart, like with me and they knew I was really smart. I was always ahead. I just didn't care, you feel me? Like I did. I didn't have the desire to do anything regarding that.

[B]

Well, there's different types of smart, right? That's the key. I feel like book smart is. It ranks pretty low on my list of intelligence, to be honest.

[A]

I'm really book smart though, you know, like really, really good at math, really good at writing, everything. I just, I just didn't care, you know. I'm very intelligent in every aspect. I just didn't care for that shit.

[B]

Yeah, I guess when I say book smart, I meant more like the school type of smart, like memorizing shit. But I do agree that reading ACT books is good, you know. But I, I, I sucked at school too. I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs didn't give a about school. I feel like school is just effort, right?

[A]

For certain. For certain.

[B]

So you knew early on you wanted to do music though. Like what age would you say?

[A]

I started writing at like 7. But I didn't, I didn't have like I want to do music, you know, I was recording and doing it as a hobby and fun. And then in high school I kind of start battling and, and I never, I didn't have the intention of like, imma do music, but kinda, you know, like, I just enjoyed it so much. I didn't want to do nothing else, but I wasn't doing it in a way of like, I'm going to make it and get signed and become famous. I just, it was just the only thing I really enjoyed doing.

[B]

Okay. I got to say, just looking from the outside in, in the music industry, it's got to be one of the hardest spaces to, to make a living off of. Just off sheer numbers and how many people try to do it right.

[A]

For certain, you got to do so much and invest so much before you could make any money that a lot of people give up.

[B]

Yeah, I think podcasts are similar. Not a lot of people can make money off them. But once you kind of break into it, it becomes lucrative, right?

[A]

Hell yeah. Especially if you play the volume game like you're saying, you know, if you can get your shit to the point like I did when I first started doing interviews, I started breaking and I was like putting together my content schedule and I told my homie, I was like, I'm going to do seven interviews. So I'll have a clip to post every day of the week from one of these interviews. And out of seven, you know, if I do an interview for an hour, I'm gonna walk away with at least seven to eight clips. So that was 56 pieces from seven interviews. And you know, once you start being in that algorithm and people see you all the time, you're just gone. You. You'll start. You know, I've been really great at monetizing myself outside of music.

[B]

I think that's where your main strength is. Because when I was researching you, like, you seem to be able to monetize backyard shows, all sorts of stuff that other artists aren't even attempting. Right. They're just trying to monetize off their music.

[A]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

Where did you get that business savviness from?

[A]

I. I just watched my pops hustle my whole life and sell any and everything he could sell and flip, whatever he could flip. And I think it's just natural to me, you know, being on a roll with him early and seeing that and seeing him communicate and talk to people, it came really, really natural to me. Like I'm a. I know how to market and I know how to promote and I know how to go, go get the money. You know, outside of the, the slow

[B]

way facts, I think I got it from my dad too. He sold books on Amazon and ebay. We would go to Book sales. I would dumpster dive for books at the library. And it just taught me how to hustle, you know.

[A]

Buying.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Father figure is important, right? For certain, yes sir. Are you still doing 15, 18 shows a month right now?

[A]

It depends on the month. Like October was a really heavy month. We probably did like 14 and 15.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

Like I usually try to close the end of the year. I try to keep lighter. But from January to about October it's usually like eight minimum, you know.

[B]

That's nuts, man. You don't get burnt out.

[A]

I think, I think being, being tired is a product of running fast, you know, like you, you supposed to like when you. It's like a nascar. Like they got to stop and change them tires because how fast they going. So I don't look at it as burnout. It's just like it's natural when you move in. How we move and hustle and how we hustle.

[B]

I agree. People ask me if I get burnt out because I work 80 hours a week. But I honestly don't like unless I'm like really stressed. But other than that, yeah, I don't really exactly. Yeah, like our work is lit. Like I have a blast talking to people all day, you know, man, we

[A]

did like All Star weekend came to the bay earlier this year and I was booked for everything one of the days. I had about four shows in the day and probably like three or four interview. Like it was just, you know, those from Friday to Sunday every day was Damn near a 24 hour day. Like we leave hella early and we're not getting back till late and gotta get right back up and go back to it. And it was one of those, you know, testaments of like, do you want this? How bad do you want it? And a lot of people can't take that. But for me it's like I thrive in this. Like this is what, you know, I do what I love for a living.

[B]

Absolutely. That's the way to do it, man. How much AI are you using right now with the music creating process? Are you using any.

[A]

I don't use any AI for music. Wow. Yeah. I use AI for like building decks and creating like marketing ideas or content mapping or tour routing. But I don't, I don't use it for music like the music, you know, we create.

[B]

So you don't think you ever will or you think just right now it's not where you want it to be?

[A]

I don't think I personally will because I enjoy like make like we just made some Shit yesterday and I had hella. I kept hearing shit in my head and I'm like. I told them. I'm like, hold the mic. I'm a stump. Like, instead of using the kick, I'm a stump. You know, shit like that is, like. That's what I like to do. You feel me? Like, it's a manual process for me.

[B]

I'm very fascinated how different artists have different creative processes. And then you'll hear stories of someone came up with a song in two minutes on a napkin and it goes viral. Like, has that happened for you? Where, like, just comes to you and then it blows up out of nowhere?

[A]

Generally, every. Every song anyone has ever heard from me has been made in like 15 minutes.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, I don't. I. I haven't spent more than that on much. You know, that's usually how my go, like, versus hooks. Everything. Like, it's. That's it.

[B]

That's so nice to me, dude, because I'm such a planner, like, for interviews. Like, I'm taking. I'm watching your interviews and taking notes. So, like that. That's just wild to me. It's. Hear that?

[A]

Yeah, it really flows, you know, I don't force music, so when. When I'm in that zone, it just comes.

[B]

It's almost like you're channeling or. So I don't know if you're spiritual at all, but. Yeah, that's really interesting.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Damn. So you kind of just get the. Do you write it down or you go straight Lil Wayne and just try to memorize?

[A]

Yeah, I'll write. No, I'll write it in my phone. But it comes to me. Like, it is very spiritual. Like, the universe really gives. Sometimes I'll write shit and I don't even realize what I'm writing until I go hear it back later. And it's like, damn, you feel me? Like, some songs I listen to now that I did years ago, that I'm like, damn, that shit really can't. It just comes through. You feel me? It is like a channel opening.

[B]

Who was on your. Did you get your Spotify report yesterday?

[A]

I did. I don't. I don't even think I've seen everyone posting it, but I haven't even went to, like, Pete, you haven't seen who

[B]

you listen to the most this year.

[A]

Yeah, I haven't. I don't. I don't even. I wouldn't even think about that one. I thought you were talking about the artist one. I really don't even see the listener report. I don't really like, bro, I don't even get to do that. You feel me? Like, I really be in flow. If I am listening to some, it's usually my damn.

[B]

So you don't, you don't get any inspiration from outside artists?

[A]

Very, very seldom. I don't. I don't listen to enough music anymore. Like, my inspo comes from shit that I used to listen to coming up. But, like, as far as new shit is very, very seldom. I'll catch something now. Like, I'd be living in a bubble.

[B]

Wow, that's very interesting to me because I feel like a lot of people are trying to copy each other, you know what I mean?

[A]

And, you know, that's why I feel like that shit helps. You know, I'm very inspired by myself and, you know, my previous. The. The people that I previously listened to and came up on. But as far as new shit, you know, something has to go really viral for it to get to me or the homies got to bring it to me.

[B]

Wow, that's very interesting. Do you ever get caught up in the numbers? Like how many plays a song gets or anything like that?

[A]

Not anymore. You know, starting off, of course, because, you know, you. You want to see results for your work. But now I understand, like, the numbers. The numbers aren't even really reflective of what's happening in real life. You know, they're so minute, you know, so, I mean, they're to be celebrated. It's like it's. It's all more than zero. But in terms of overall what this is, it's not reflective. Like, I have 2 million followers on Instagram, but in the world, there's like 10 million, 20 million people who know me. I go to every city I want and people see me from the airport till when I go back home. You feel me?

[B]

100.

[A]

Be reflective.

[B]

No, I agree with that because I know people with millions on TikTok, but they don't have that in person poll. You know what I mean? Like, you won't even recognize there's some

[A]

people who are like 10 times bigger than me online. But if we walk down the same street, people would stop me far more. And I literally lived it. So the numbers just, they're not accurate enough to make a big deal out of them anymore.

[B]

That's why I tell people to do in person events too. Like, I host events in every major city in the country. Because you have to.

[A]

Yeah, if you could in real life.

[B]

Yeah, if you could gather a couple hundred people in. In major cities, you know, that that builds A lot of impact for you?

[A]

Hell yeah. In real life. I mean, that's how we build up touring as artists and just your presence. But like, I'm an artist who really got this big off in real life experience. People see me and touch me and. And know I'm. I'm there.

[B]

Yeah. When. When's the next tour? You got one planned

[A]

next? I don't really tour in the traditional way. I do a lot of stop dates because I like to come home. But next year we're, you know, all throughout the year, we're doing different regions and different pieces. So I take like a week out of each month to like go hit outer places. But while I'm home, I'm just hitting everything local.

[B]

Which cities do you like? Other than San Fran, obviously.

[A]

Like external or locally, I guess to

[B]

be at again, sports inspired at to perform at Seattle.

[A]

Seattle is one of my favorites. Brooklyn's one of my favorites.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Omaha is one of my favorites.

[B]

These are very interesting cities. I did not expect those. Seattle, Brooklyn, Detroit, dc,

[A]

Atlanta.

[B]

I thought you were gonna say la. New York City, Miami.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I love LA too. You know, that's home. That's basically home as well.

[B]

You seem like underground, like underdog type of guy.

[A]

Yeah, you know, like we really built in city. Like Omaha, Nebraska is one of my homes. Like, that's a city that adopted me early. I went and did a show there years ago and they just, they championed me and it helped us build. You know, a lot of artists can only tour major markets, right. I skip major markets sometimes and go straight to the def cities, you feel me? That no one else goes to. And then I build a lifetime fan.

[B]

Smart. So you found a gap in the market where these cities still want to. These underground cities still want to have good music, right?

[A]

Hell yeah. And they don't get nothing. They're deprived. So their support is way different. You know, when you la, everyone's more bougie because everyone goes there. They can see a concert every day of the week. You know, certain cities, they can only see a concert so often of an artist that they really want to see.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So them like the support is far deeper than the major markets.

[B]

Yeah. When you think of the stuff that comes with being an artist, like the fame, the money and all that, like, where does that prioritize for you? Where do you rank all that?

[A]

Fame is like in the middle of the barometer of like, does fame? Fame is in. If fame didn't help you make money, it would be at the bottom for me. You know, like, I, I, I, I'm grateful, but I don't enjoy what fame brings and breathes within everyone. But I also do because I'm a benefactor of my fame. You know, when it, when it in my favorites in my favor, but other, other than that, you know, it's in the middle.

[B]

I agree. I think, you know, I. You got to give up some of your personal life for fame, but I think overall it, it outweighs it. As long as you can monetize the fame. If you're famous and you're not making money, then what's the point, right?

[A]

Yeah. And. But that's the tough thing about fame. The beautiful thing is also the curse of it. The beaut. The beautiful part is you're never not famous, so you always have a chance to monetize it. Like, like there's artists who were big in the 90s who still get to tour and do shows and interviews, because that fame never leaves. The curse of it is if you become unsuccessful in a crackhead, now you're a famous crackhead, and everyone's watching you and taking pictures and, you know, now you're like the famous guy who didn't become nothing, you know, and never leaves you Facts.

[B]

There is a resurgence of that nostalgic music even in Vegas. There's a festival you probably heard of when we were young. Yeah, yeah. They're bringing back all the old hits. And these guys are getting paid, you

[A]

know, Bro, they're getting the bat, you know, I've been working with Low John a lot lately, and he was telling me, he's like, bro, I'm making more money now than I've ever made. And back then I was the biggest producer in the world.

[B]

Damn. That's crazy for him to say that. Wow. Yeah, he does a lot of stuff in Vegas. Little John.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah. Would you ever do a residency or something like that? Or is that too much? Too much? You don't do.

[A]

I do residencies now. I haven't done one in Vegas, but I go to different cities and around the region and I'll stay for a week and just, Just build, you know, that community. I'll be in the community. I'll do interviews and fill in with all the platforms and shit. So that's something that we do.

[B]

I feel that. I feel you have a pod, too. So how does that play into all the, all this? Like, do you put a lot of focus into your pod?

[A]

Not a ton of focus. You know, when, when, when something comes that we really want to put on, like it's called Free Game. Started with me and my partner and it was us just sharing, like all the business gyms, all the deals we've done, marketing, just everything we've learned, we share and now we utilize it. We allow people to send in questions like specifically like, how do you do your pub? How do you do this? And we'll answer specific questions that people need to thrive as artists. And then every now and then, like when, when a friend of ours come, that's larger. Like we just know the product and twista and anise and you know, we'll get them on there. But it's not a. A hyper priority to me. It's just some. It's another branch on our tree.

[B]

Yeah. More of a side thing. Well, respect for doing that because it must be tough to navigate as an up and coming artist. You get so many different opinions online, right, man?

[A]

Tons.

[B]

And I feel like what worked for you, you know, time moves so fast. It might not work these days. So you got to constantly be getting new advice, right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. What we built is so organic and special that the principles will work in 50 years, because they worked 50 years before. Now really, you know, our is really rooted in organic building. Being in the community, touching people, being real, being human. Those are things that work. Forever was working for me is what once worked for too short and E40 as well.

[B]

Wow, that's interesting. Yes. You're talking about your company. Good company, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's your label. How many artists are part of that right now?

[A]

It's not a label, it's just a collect. Like, we don't sign artists, we just help people.

[B]

Oh, so you don't take a cut or anything?

[A]

Yeah, like. Well, anything that we work on, we'll get royalties in. But we don't own anyone's shit or sign anyone. Like we. We just work on things and help build shit.

[B]

Okay, that's cool. Yeah. It seems like labels have to adapt, right, and become more collaborative like that in the future.

[A]

I mean, they don't have to, you know, because people need them still.

[B]

You think people still need them as much as they did they? Like when you were starting as much?

[A]

No, but still. Yes, very much so. Like, there's only. Most artists can't do what I did. It's too much work, it's too much effort, it's too much knowledge, it's too much investment. They won't do it. That's why if you look on a chart of all the top songs, you know, these Are major label artists who are getting royalty deals still, even though they. They have the ability to be independent, they won't take that because it's too much work to do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There's viral clips of, like, Snoop Doggs saying how much he makes off those charts, and the label gets most of it. I'm sure you've seen that clip.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'd rather make. Me personally, I'd rather make a little less, but have full 100% creative control,

[A]

you know, but that's the thing. Like, some artists don't make a little less. They make a lot less than if they were with a major label. You feel me? So it depends on what kind of artist you are. Like, some of these artists, if they went independent, they would make a lot less, and some would make a lot more. It just depends on what kind of artist you are. But most artists who come out the major label system, it's very difficult for them to be independent because they never had to do the work it takes to build that. The label did it for them, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So they're basically just making your. They're trying to make your life easier, basically.

[A]

Right, yeah, that. And that's their goal, you feel me? To make your life easier, to make it. Make the business more profitable.

[B]

And I'm sure you've been offered from all sorts of labels. Like, it's not something you're interested in, Tom.

[A]

I mean, I'm not. Earlier in my career, I was uninterested. I've never been uninterested. The deals just didn't align, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because you were willing to put in the work. That. That's the main disagreement.

[A]

And I was willing to spend my own money, so it was really hard to, like, impress me with the magic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I've seen you say on another show, you spent hundreds of thousands in a month.

[A]

Once on this, 100 every month.

[B]

Yeah, I saw you say 250 in one month.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's a lot, bro.

[A]

It's been more than that on months, dude. Film me. It's more than that.

[B]

What's the biggest expense there, exactly?

[A]

Like, in general or months. And it changes month to month. You know, if there's a month where moving a lot and doing a lot of big things, Festivals, shows, like, I'm throwing, I'm booking people, like, you know, I've had months where I've thrown, you know, four of my own shows plus two big festivals, et cetera. Like some of these artists, you know, to throw A festival independently is hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, a quarter million minimum sometimes. So really just, it depends on what the month is. You know, just living for me, I, I live in a compound with, with team and staff and crew and I throw all of my own events. So just on a standard, you know, I'm. I'm spending a hundred thousand dollars to just like operate and be. No matter what.

[B]

Jeez. Damn. I didn't know you were rolling with a deep team like that. That's crazy. Is it true?

[A]

Yes. On a big show day, I could have upwards of 40 people just on my side of the staff.

[B]

Holy crap. That's nuts. Is it true most festivals lose money? Most music festivals?

[A]

Yeah, I would say so. I would say so. I mean, there, it's just like artists festivals are like artists. You know, most artists are like in the red and building until you can get into the green and it's just, it's tough to get there.

[B]

Yeah, that's, that's a. Interesting business model. I'm all about profit, personally. Like, I don't know if I'm spending so much money on a festival and it's losing money. It's just interesting that they keep throwing them.

[A]

It's losing money until it's not, and then it's always making money, you know, like, you have to, you have to build something for it to be profitable. Nothing just starts off. It's not like, you know, selling a dime bag even that, you know, if you buy weed, you gotta buy at this price and now you have to resell it at double or triple to make your money. Or sometimes, you know, not even that. You. You only get $2 off of it. And that's what it looks like. That's what every business looks like.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah. EDC out here crushes it every year,

[A]

but when they started, they didn't crush it every year, you know? Yeah, that's just the process of it. And, and every time you do it, you get better, you learn. And sometimes I'll take losses, knowing I'm going to take the loss, but knowing I'm going to build the data for me to do it better on the next one.

[B]

That makes sense. What's the most amount of people you've had at one of your events?

[A]

It depends. Like we do free shit and then we do paid shit. Free shit has been. I mean, I've. I've looked down, there's been upwards of 10,000 cheese. Hey, paid probably like 5, 45, 5.

[B]

That's still insane. 5, 000 paying people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. Was a lot of money spent on advertising or was it all word of mouth?

[A]

Advertising, artists, you know, marketing, promo, production, you know, but yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot goes into ads, but really it's like the artist fees and the production fees that. That really eat everything.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's going to be. With the rise of AI, I personally think events are going to be something people gravitate towards to. In the future, just to feel human connection, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And that's. That's why we're able to do shows all year long. And I'm. I'm always in front of people, you know, my. I don't, not ever, not sell tickets.

[B]

Have you collabed with everyone you've wanted to at this point?

[A]

Hell, nah. I'm still new, so. You know, some people still ain't. They ain't hip yet.

[B]

All right. You got a list? You big on, like, manifesting and like, doing that?

[A]

I don't really have a list. You know, the only person who I'm like, I really, really want to work with is Charlie Wilson.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Other than that, you know, I don't really have a list.

[B]

Damn. When I started the show, I wrote a list of. They call it like a dream. Hunter. Hunter people. Hunter names.

[A]

Fire.

[B]

Yeah, I'm at, like, I think I'm around 30 or so. Got Elon on there, a bunch of big names.

[A]

But Fire.

[B]

One day, you know, you've had on some big people, bro. I was peeping your YouTube.

[A]

Yeah. Snoop Dogg and Lil John and Wiz. Like. And that's the thing, you know, I never. I never intentionally manifested. I've always been like, whatever comes to me is for me, you know? Busta Rhymes, T Pains, and they just came. They just. They just came.

[B]

Well, I'm. I'm the believer. Like, if you're just putting out good value, like, it'll come back to you, you know?

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like these, it's. These people aren't gonna just knock on your door. Like, you got to provide some value.

[A]

Yeah. You gotta do something special that makes them want to be a part of it. Every collaboration I've had from people that were way bigger than me has been them seeing what I'm doing and wanting in.

[B]

That's dope. You sell the hoodies you're wearing. You sell merch.

[A]

I sell everything.

[B]

You are hustler, bro.

[A]

Sell everything. I sell basketballs. I sell microphone. I sell everything. I'm actually about to get into, like, home goods. Like, I'm about to start selling toilet paper and paper towels and. And forks and spoons and plates and just all the. You use in your daily life. That deodorant, soap, like everything that you use in your daily life that you walk through Target and get where if you seen some, like your favorite artist with a brand, you would just buy it because you got to buy soap anyway.

[B]

Yeah. Damn. You're like shock out here, putting your. Your name on everything.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You sell basketballs too? So we gotta play then.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

You nice.

[A]

Come on. I'm nice at everything.

[B]

I love the confidence, bro. I love it. You gotta be confident, though. It's important. It's very important. But nah, I' ma see you play. I haven't met too many good podcasters of basketball, but you're not even a podcast.

[A]

Yeah, we play hella pickleball, too. Tennis? What? Frisbee, whatever.

[B]

You competitive then? Yeah, that's the way to do it. Well, man, we'll link your. What else you got? Any. Any current projects or anything exciting right now?

[A]

Right now? I'm working. I got this Little John album coming. Super bowl is coming to the Bay next year.

[B]

I might come out.

[A]

Oh, five. Yeah, we're gonna be here. We're gonna be all over for that. You know, it's in the Bay, and I'm one of the big artists in the Bay, so we're going to be outside and I got this really special project with Little John we dropping around that time that's just like, gonna be big for the region. So that's. That's a big staple coming.

[B]

Fire. So you really place a lot of importance on representing San Francisco.

[A]

I'm from Vallejo, but the Bay Area in general.

[B]

Yeah, the Bay. Yeah. Yeah. You're the face of it now, right? You got the next. The baton.

[A]

Damn near.

[B]

Let's go, baby. Well, we'll link your show, your pod, your merch, all that stuff, man. Dude, thanks for your time.

[A]

Love. Gratitude, brother.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Peace, Fire.

[B]

Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot to me if you could please leave a review on Apple. That helps us climb the charts, it helps us get way more guests, and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.