Naima Troutt: Why Gen Z Doesn’t Want to Be Politicians. | DSH #1651

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode #1651

Guest: Naima Troutt

Host: Sean Kelly

Date: December 1, 2025

Main Theme:
Why Gen Z doesn’t want to be politicians – a candid exploration with Naima Troutt into generational attitudes toward politics, the state of contemporary political debate, social media influence, and the complexities of public discourse.

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Episode Overview

Host Sean Kelly sits down with debater and commentator Naima Troutt to discuss the lack of political ambition among Gen Z, her experiences with high-profile debates, her political philosophy, and the tension between political engagement and personal safety. The conversation ranges from personal anecdotes and reflections on internet culture, to sharp critiques of American politics, parties, and public figures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Online Debates and Personal Boundaries

• Naima’s Debate Hustle:
  • Naima shares her fast-paced life: two jobs, school, debating weekly, fitness goals, and training to be a yoga instructor.
  • "Yeah, it's mostly just not sleeping." (01:08 – Naima)
• Streaming and Privacy:
  • Naima resists becoming a full-time streamer, citing the need to maintain a boundary between her public and private self.
  • "When I'm in my home, that's my safe space... I don't want to blur those lines." (01:25–01:39 – Naima)

2. Gen Z and Political Engagement

• Why Gen Z Avoids Office:
  • Naima expresses skepticism about pursuing political office, believing real power and candor exist outside of electoral politics.
  • "I don't think there's really any power in it... I think that you are beholden to whoever is spending the most money on your campaign. I think that you can't really be as open and honest as, like, I can be sitting on a podcast." (18:17 – Naima)
• Consultancy Over Candidacy:
  • Naima would rather be a commentator or consultant to keep her voice authentic and her life less scrutinized.

3. Cynicism Toward the Political System

• Influence of Money:
  • Political officeholders, especially newcomers, are compromised by donor pressures.
• Concerns About Family and Privacy:
  • She highlights the intense and unrelenting media scrutiny faced by politicians’ families.
  • "Any right to privacy. You know, like, at least we can turn off the cameras, but for them, it's... there's no off." (19:31 – Naima)

4. Reflections on Political Figures and Past Elections

• Views on Current Leadership:
  • Naima critiques Trump’s second term (16:27), dismissing it as "not at all productive or beneficial to the American people."
  • She recounts government shutdowns and frivolous renovations: "It feels honestly so disrespectful to watch him do so many things that are flagrant wastes of American tax dollars while simultaneously the government is not functioning." (17:13 – Naima)
• Kamala Harris & Democrat Strategy:
  • She expresses dissatisfaction with the DNC’s handling of nominations, believing Kamala Harris was ill-prepared and unsupported as a candidate.
  • "It was a complete failure on the part of the dnc. And to me, it's like, we already saw this very popular white woman lose to Trump. Why would you try a less popular black woman?... Now is not the moment to push the most ideologically progressive agenda, at least on a presidential level." (20:51 – Naima)

5. Party Divisions and Leadership Fragility

• Democrats:
  • "Democrats fight too much. There's way too much infighting in terms of, like, progressive vs. liberal." (22:51 – Naima)
• Republicans:
  • "On the right, it kind of feels like the party is just, like, whatever Trump says we're gonna do...if Trump fucks up, now you all have to spend so much time defending this one person." (22:34–23:17 – Naima)
  • Questions if consolidating ideological power is ever truly wise.

6. Online Radicalization & White Supremacy

• Nick Fuentes and the Far Right:
  • Naima discusses the dangers of platforming extremists and the intimidation she feels from aggressive online fanbases (09:36–10:36, 12:26).
  • "When your fan base is so aggressive, I don't really feel like I can be honest with you about how I feel about your beliefs, because I have to protect my own safety." (09:36 – Naima)
• White Replacement Theory:
  • "If the birth rate of white people is going down, how can you blame that on other races? ...That sounds like a you problem." (13:03–13:15 – Naima)
  • On immigration: "We've very much branded ourselves as a country that is welcoming to immigrants. And then as soon as we get here, we're like, wait, no more. And that's...just fucking unfair." (14:25–14:49 – Naima)

7. The Mechanics and Pitfalls of Debating

• Debate Tactics:
  • Naima criticizes debaters who focus on definitions rather than substantive issues, claiming it’s a tactic to avoid substantive positions.
  • “It just feels like a way to...not have to actually defend your beliefs and your values and apply them to a real world setting.” (07:47 – Naima)
• “Whatever” Show & Format Woes:
  • Too many debate participants (“20 is too many people,” 27:14), and physical disadvantages in old debate formats.
  • “I very specifically wanted to come in to talk about abortion, but I never got [to the chair].” (26:34 – Naima)
  • New format: raise your hand; director picks you.

8. Personal Safety and Being a Public Figure

• Stalking and Threats:
  • Naima expresses serious concerns about being doxxed and her lack of self-defense skills, especially as a small woman in the spotlight (28:10–28:18).
• Guns and Gun Control:
  • She supports personal gun ownership for self-defense but is against assault weapons for civilians:
  • "If you’re like a very tiny person who could never defend themselves physically... you should probably have a gun." (28:31 – Naima)
  • She fears gun laws would be enforced disproportionately against minorities.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the reality for immigrants:

  • “If you really don't want immigrants, you gotta, like, look at North Korea. Like, you gotta work on your branding.” (00:00, 14:25 – Naima)

• On youth voting rights:

  • “You can have a child at 18...you are effectively an adult in this country. So why should you be treated like a child when you legally are not seen as one?” (05:47 – Naima)

• On debating Andrew Wilson:

  • “He wants to argue the definition of words for hours... I could debate about like a current event issue for four hours. I don't want to debate on the definition of the word for four hours.” (06:41–07:13 – Naima)

• On the futility of running for office:

  • “I don't think there's really any power in it, to be honest with you... I would rather be a consultant, if that makes more sense.” (18:17 – Naima)

• On party polarization:

  • “On the right, it kind of feels like the party is just, like, whatever Trump says we're gonna do.” (22:34 – Naima)
  • “Democrats fight too much...” (22:51 – Naima)

• On gun legislation:

  • “I’m not pro-gun in a general sense... but if you’re like a very tiny person who could never defend themselves physically... you should probably have a gun.” (28:31 – Naima)

• On personal safety:

  • “I have zero, zero self-defense skills.” (28:18 – Naima)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] Immigration branding & hypocrisy
  • Naima’s North Korea analogy on immigration branding
• [01:25–01:39] Healthy boundaries with streaming
• [05:47] Youth adult rights vs. voting
• [07:47] Vocabulary debates as avoidance
• [14:25–14:49] American immigration messaging
• [16:27] Trump administration critique
• [18:17] Why Gen Z isn’t running for office
• [20:51] DNC, Kamala Harris, and political pragmatism
• [22:34–23:17] Party consolidation pitfalls
• [26:34] Debate format frustrations
• [28:31] Nuanced stance on guns & personal protection

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Episode Tone

Conversational and candid. Naima oscillates between humor ("It's giving skill issue," 13:24), blunt honesty, and measured critique. Both her and Sean balance personal reflections with political analysis, making the episode approachable and forthright.

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Summary Takeaways

This episode delves into Gen Z’s rejection of traditional politics, not because of disengagement, but due to the belief that real impact happens through commentary and activism, not office. Naima Troutt insightfully dissects the limitations and dangers of seeking public office, the state of political parties, and the risks public intellectuals (particularly women and minorities) face both online and offline. Her forthright style sheds light on why so many in her generation choose to influence culture and policy from the sidelines rather than from within the system.

Transcript

[Naima]

If you really don't want immigrants, you gotta, like, look at North Korea. Like, you gotta work on your branding. I'm just saying, like, nobody's trying to move to North Korea because they made it very clear they don't want people. Yeah, but you're pitching yourself as a country that is welcoming and accepting the immigrants, and then as soon as they get here, you turn around and do the exact opposite.

[Brian]

All right, guys, here at Spotify Studios LA with Naima. Let's go. She's coming off a fiery debate with Andrew Wilson. I think it's at a million views already.

[Naima]

Is it something like that on his or on mine?

[Brian]

On the. It was on whatever, right?

[Naima]

Yeah, it was on whatever.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Naima]

Pretty insane, Brian.

[Brian]

And your first one with him got a lot of views, too.

[Naima]

Yeah, yeah, that one was kind of. That one was funny. The pickle jar was hilarious.

[Brian]

Yeah, that was viral.

[Naima]

Yeah, that was really.

[Brian]

You should have brought it again. You should have brought another one.

[Naima]

I was thinking about it and I've been working out too. Like, I've been on my fitness grind. I'm training to be a yoga instructor.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah?

[Naima]

Yeah. I'll have my certification and, like, a month. Wow. Yeah.

[Brian]

You do a lot, man. You got two jobs too much. You're debating at least once a week. You're going on huge shows.

[Naima]

Yeah. Your student still in school?

[Brian]

How are you doing this? You must not be sleeping.

[Naima]

Yeah, it's mostly just not sleeping.

[Brian]

Jeez.

[Naima]

Honestly. Yeah. No. And everyone's like, why don't you go live? Or I'm like, girl, when and where?

[Brian]

Oh, you're doing the live debates, too?

[Naima]

No, I mean, people always want me to go live on Tik Tok, and I'm just like, dude, no, I can't add anymore.

[Brian]

Yeah. Some people are live there, like, eight hours a day. I'm like, bro, I know.

[Naima]

I don't really understand. See, I would. I don't think I could ever be a streamer because I just can't do that. Yeah. Like, when I'm in my home, that's my safe space.

[Brian]

You know, streamers. You're, like, not yourself also.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I feel like you're. Yeah. You're putting on a Persona and it's hard to maintain.

[Naima]

Yeah. And there is a difference between, you know, how you're acting when you're on camera and how you're acting when you're just, like, in the privacy of your home. Yeah, I don't want to blur those lines.

[Brian]

Yeah, for sure. Would you ever do a campus debate? Like, Set up how Charlie used to do.

[Naima]

You know what?

[Brian]

No, you wouldn't.

[Naima]

Well, look how that ended for Charlie. I'm gonna. I think I would pass. Yeah. I mean, I do appreciate the idea of involving younger people in politics. I think it's important to get involved in politics. I got involved in politics from a very young age, but I wasn't debating adults as a child. I was debating other kids, you know, And I think I've gotten. Hold on. Is my phone.

[Brian]

Someone's phone is ringing.

[Naima]

Is my phone. Who is calling me and why? Oh, it's my mother.

[Brian]

You want to take it? We could cut this out if you want.

[Naima]

Yeah, actually, I'll take it.

[Brian]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Naima]

Hey, Mama Mommy. I'm on a podcast right now at Spotify headquarters. Can I call you back? Love you too. Okay, bye.

[Brian]

Yeah, my phone only rings with my mom when my mom calls.

[Naima]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Brian]

She's the only one that gets through.

[Naima]

Yeah, no, if I don't answer my parents calls, they're like, ah, they freak out. Yeah, the FBI, they gotcha.

[Brian]

Were they helicopter parents growing up for you?

[Naima]

No. Well, not really. I think my parents are like, they're like corporate hippies.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

You know, they weren't really helicoptery, but they are very concerned about my safety. Especially, like I'm 95 pounds, you know, living across the country, like, debating people who just got assassinated. So, you know, they're, they, they get their anxieties about.

[Brian]

Yeah, that's a big change from growing up in Jersey in the suburbs.

[Naima]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. No, so I was in Brooklyn for most of my, like, childhood, and then I moved to Jersey, like high school. So that was a huge shift too. Yeah.

[Brian]

Would you like more Brooklyn or Jersey?

[Naima]

Brooklyn.

[Brian]

Really?

[Naima]

Yeah. I mean, I kind of like the balance, though, because New Jersey is beautiful and it was nice to be able to, like, walk my dog all over my neighborhood and it doesn't smell like urine, you know, Like, I, I, I, I appreciate the suburbs. It, they grew on me as I got older.

[Brian]

I feel that.

[Naima]

But at first I was like, man, this place. Yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah. New York's about to change, right? With mom Donnie over there.

[Naima]

Now, I know. I don't, I mean, I get, I get nervous. I'm rooting for him so hard, but my fear is that he's going to do one thing wr. Everyone's gonna be like, aha. See, socialism is dumb. It doesn't work.

[Brian]

That's gonna happen regardless. I feel like I know with him.

[Naima]

But I really, I think the free buses he's definitely gonna get done because I don't think I've ever paid for a bus in New York in my entire life.

[Brian]

So you just hopped on there.

[Naima]

Yeah. So I don't think that would be a huge transition, but I'm hoping that. I know Tom Denapoli. I think he's. He might be the New York State Comptroller, but I know they're like, yeah, the budget's in the pooper.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

So I'm hoping that he can reallocate some funds.

[Brian]

Well, Mamdani just met with Trump. It seemed to have gone better than people thought.

[Naima]

That was hilarious, right?

[Brian]

They thought it was going to be a back and forth the way Trump.

[Naima]

Was glazing him so hard.

[Brian]

Yeah. I was surprised. It makes me wonder if Trump, like, low key respects him.

[Naima]

Yeah. I don't know why he just chose him, like, out of all the people. Yeah, like, no, I like you.

[Brian]

Because he said he was going to oppose him before he got elected or.

[Naima]

Yeah, no, like, before he got elected, he was not a momdani stand. And then he met him and he was like, wait, yes.

[Brian]

He won him over, I guess. I don't know what he said in there.

[Naima]

I don't know what he could have possibly said or done.

[Brian]

Does it make you nervous that he made a deal with him?

[Naima]

I don't know. I don't think Mamdani would have made a deal with Trump. I mean, it would have just killed his. You know, his base is very leftist and progressive. So I think, like, out the bat, the first thing you do as newly elected mayor is to make a deal with Trump.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

I think politically that would be. I feel that kind of suicidal.

[Brian]

The voter breakdown from Amdani, when you look at the. The gender and the age percentages, pretty nuts, right?

[Naima]

I didn't see it.

[Brian]

Oh, you didn't see it?

[Naima]

No.

[Brian]

He basically got a lot of female voters, especially Gen Z and Millennial.

[Naima]

That tracks.

[Brian]

Yeah, a lot. Like 80 plus percent.

[Naima]

Yeah, that tracks. That track.

[Brian]

That makes sense.

[Naima]

We were big fans. He's also so cute. I don't. I don't think that's hurting him. Yeah. Like I will say, what do you.

[Brian]

Think of Andrew Wilson saying the voting age should be raised? Do you agree with that?

[Naima]

No, that's stupid. I mean, you can. That's my thing. It's like, you can have a child at 18, you can adopt a child at 18. Like, you can legally own a gun in certain states. Like, you know, like, you can drive, you can go to jail, you're tried as an adult, you know, you are effectively an adult in this country. You know, you can have sex with any other adult, you know, so why should you be treated like a child when you legally are not seen as one?

[Brian]

Yeah. You know, I think his stance is. The brain is still forming, but I don't know.

[Naima]

Well, his brain is still forming, so he got a lot of nerve.

[Brian]

Oh, man. Your last debate with him, I. I got to be honest, I gave up an hour in.

[Naima]

It was exhausting. I wish I could have.

[Brian]

Yeah. How long did that go?

[Naima]

I. It was like. It was like. It was like five hours. It was so long.

[Brian]

Did you expect it to be long?

[Naima]

I think it was four. Yeah.

[Brian]

That's crazy.

[Naima]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I expected it to be that long. They had scheduled it for that and they were thinking about going over, but I had to go home and feed my cats.

[Brian]

I don't blame you.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Four hours in a heated debate like that.

[Naima]

Yeah, it was really exhausting. And my boyfriend came to the last. My first debate with Andrew Wilson. He couldn't come to this one cause he was out of town. So it was like, I'm like going by myself to Santa Barbara to beat this fucking guy. For four hours. Yeah, no, it was definitely. It's a lot. I think Andrew, my biggest thing with him is that he just like, he wants to argue the definition of words for hours. Because I could debate about like a current event issue for four hours. I don't want to debate on the definition of the word. Right. For four hours. You know, like that's where at one point I just googled it and I was like, can we just go with this?

[Brian]

I saw that it was like definition debates just from a viewer experience. It's not enjoyable.

[Naima]

It's not enjoyable from a participant experience. At least for me. I guess he likes them, but for me it's not enjoyable. And it also kind of seems like a cop out because it's like you're going to debate these definitions in a way so that you don't have to promote an actual opinion.

[Brian]

Right.

[Naima]

You know, and then if we agree on a definition, you can say, aha, I won the debate because I got you to agree to my definition of a word. But like, we can agree on the definition of a word and still have very different opinions on, you know, the subject at hand.

[Brian]

100%.

[Naima]

Yeah. It just feels like a way to, like, not have to actually defend your beliefs and your values and apply them to a real world setting.

[Brian]

And then going into a setting where like, he Kind of has the home field advantage on the whatever show. Does that, like, play into the. Into your mind at all?

[Naima]

Not really. I mean, I will say I think Brian is really, really professional and very fun to work with. Like, he's super chill. You know, they're very. They've been very accommodating to me. Like, corresponding with them has been a lot better than, you know, working with people like Tim Pool. I don't know what the fuck happened with that. It's like that whole thing could have been resolved with, like, two dms. So why wouldn't you tell me you got Myron? I would have come.

[Brian]

Like, I think the problem is when you have too many people in between, just communication gets lost. You should be texting Tim or his assistant directly. Like.

[Naima]

Yeah, it felt like it was a. It felt like a lack of communication. And I got like, three different producers are emailing me and it's like, dude, like, I'm just so confused. I don't know what's going on. And I'm getting offered a better job opportunity somewhere that's much more convenient. I'm just not going to take this.

[Brian]

I'm sure in the future work, I'll see. You want to debate Myron, though? That's someone you would challenge.

[Naima]

I would definitely debate Myron. He called me a bimbo. We have to talk. Really? Yeah, he tweeted. He was like, this bimbo needs to shut the fuck up. That was like a year ago.

[Brian]

Which clip was it about?

[Naima]

I don't know. Probably one where I was yelling at somebody. I think it might have been the Nick Fuentes clip.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Naima]

The one about Aiden.

[Brian]

Well, they're friends, so he might have been defending Nick.

[Naima]

Yeah, I'm sure it was.

[Brian]

You know.

[Naima]

Yeah. I don't even think I came for Nick that hard. I don't think I've ever come for Nick crazy hard.

[Brian]

I haven't seen you say anything too bad about Nick.

[Naima]

No, I mean. Oh, oh, yeah. You got to cut out the part where I said he was gay in the last video.

[Brian]

Oh, really? Yeah, it was about that.

[Naima]

No, no, no, no. That's the thing I was saying. I was asking you to cut out, but I forgot what it was.

[Brian]

Oh, got it, got it. Okay.

[Naima]

And then also this. Now I got you.

[Brian]

Oh, his audience would come for you if that.

[Naima]

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. I can't have any grip or hate. Please cut that out. I don't want to die.

[Brian]

And those guys are everywhere now.

[Naima]

Well, see, I mean, that's the main thing is I just don't want to get doxed. Like, I have a lot of thoughts about Nick Fuentes, but, like, when we talk about political censorship, it's like, when your fan base is so aggressive, I don't really feel like I can be honest with you about how I feel about your beliefs, because I have to protect my own safety.

[Brian]

I feel that. No, I respect that. I've been at the gym, and one of them will come up to me. I'll be, like, at the airport in a random city. Like, they are everywhere.

[Naima]

I got, like, surprised by a groiper on a Jubilee video.

[Brian]

They had one on Jubilee.

[Naima]

The last middle ground I did with Parker. One of the topics was Nick Fuentes. And you know how the Tucker Carlson interview. And I kind of brought out how this was, like, brought up how this was going to be an issue on the right with having to figure out whether or not you ideologically align yourself as a party with someone who is a white supremacist. Because in my opinion, if you're inviting them into very prominent conservative spaces, that's basically saying, like, I support you, you know, in a sense. So you guys, as a party, have to decide if you are willing to support Nick Fuentes or not and what that means for you.

[Brian]

Right.

[Naima]

And this guy was like, well, maybe they agreed. And I was like, well, wait a second. And then he went on this whole rant about how European countries are superior and that there are real points to be made in white supremacy. And he was also dressed exactly like Nick Fuentes. Like, he was like, temu Nick Fuentes. Like, he was very clearly aligned with some white supremacist beliefs. I don't know if he personally identifies as a griper, but I'm pretty sure Jubilee ended up cutting that part out of the video.

[Brian]

Interesting.

[Naima]

Yeah. And I think that their whole thing was that they didn't want to platform him, but I was like, well, you already did, so you might as well include the part about the fact that he's a fucking white supremacist.

[Brian]

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[Naima]

I mean, on Twitter? Yes. In other spaces, somewhat, but not as much. I think that, I mean, I think that it's kind of permeated society for a very long time. I don't think that this is like a new phenomenon. I just think that, you know, it existed before a digital space and now we're seeing, you know, kind of white. Yeah. How white supremacy transitions into a digital space and they've, you know, been able to use it as a tool. Really.

[Brian]

Yeah. It sits an interesting argument. They're basically saying the number of white people is going down in America. Right. And they're worried about it.

[Naima]

Yeah. The white replacement theory. I mean, that's silly.

[Brian]

Yeah. Race never really impacted who I choose to be friends with.

[Naima]

It's. I mean, it shouldn't. And it's also like, if the birth rate of white people is going down, how can you blame that on other races?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

Like, what are you saying?

[Brian]

Well, everyone's rate's going down. I think theirs is just going down exponentially more.

[Naima]

Yeah. I mean, and that's, you know, unfortunate for you, I guess, but I don't really understand what that has to do with black people. Yeah, like, that sounds like a you problem.

[Brian]

They'll always find a way to.

[Naima]

Yeah, it's giving skill issue. But, you know, I mean. Yeah, it is weird that, you know, white replacement the is kind of you're blaming people for trying to replace you. We're not trying to replace you. We're just trying to exist in. I think that the issue too, especially I hear this argument a lot when it comes to immigration and you know, I get that, but I get people who are nervous about the amount of immigrants who are coming into this country. But at the same time, we have kind of pitched it, our country as being the land of opportunity.

[Brian]

We have. That's why my parents came.

[Naima]

Yes. Exactly. Bring me your poor, your huddled masses. Like, we've very much branded ourselves as a country that is welcoming to immigran immigrants. And then as soon as we get here, we're like, wait, no more. And that's. That's not really fair.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah. My parents are both immigrants.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Mom came here with 20 bucks, and look at what they built, you know?

[Naima]

Exactly. And those are always the stories that we promote. So, of course, someone living in a country in which they don't really feel like they've been able to be valued and be productive, you know, would want to come here.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

For. To find that opportunity. So, you know, like, if you really don't want immigrants, you got to, like, look at North Korea. Like, you got to work on your branding. I'm just saying, like, nobody's trying to move to North Korea because they made it very clear they don't want people. Yeah, but you're pitching yourself as a country that is welcoming. Welcoming and accepting the immigrants, and then as soon as they get here, you turn around and do the exact opposite. That, to me, is just fucking unfair.

[Brian]

And now some people on the right. I know Myron has spoken about, like, an immigration pause. Like, no one gets in for, like, a certain amount of time. Have you seen that?

[Naima]

No, I haven't seen that. I mean, I think that's somewhat of a ridiculous idea, just because sometimes, you know, families don't immigrate at the same time. Like, I've had friends who, like, have had elder relatives who stayed behind, and now it's like, you need to come because you're getting sick and we need to care for you.

[Brian]

Right.

[Naima]

So if you pause that, you're basically separating families and making it impossible for them to connect when it could be a very serious issue. And there's a real need for them to connect.

[Brian]

You know, Has Trump done better or worse than you thought he was going to do?

[Naima]

So far, he did exactly as well as I thought he was going to do, which is very poorly.

[Brian]

Pretty much anything you've liked that he's done so far.

[Naima]

You know, I was really rooting for him to get rid of daylight savings time, and he didn't even do that. I'm trying to think if there's anything that. Oh, I thought it was really funny when he was just like, yeah, I'm not going to heaven.

[Brian]

He said that.

[Naima]

Yes.

[Brian]

I didn't see that.

[Naima]

I made a whole bucket. I lip sync to it. He was like, yeah, I don't think I'm going to make it to Heaven. I might be in heaven right now as I fly on Air Force the One.

[Brian]

Wow. I didn't know he said that.

[Naima]

I'm going to get to heaven. He like, openly admitted he's not going to heaven. He openly admitted he was like, yeah, Zoran, I'm a fascist. You can say it. He's just been hella reckless.

[Brian]

Jeez.

[Naima]

He's just owning it, which is another fear of mine. It's like the fact that you're owning the fact that you're a fascist, the fact that you know you're not going to heaven, but you haven't done anything to change your behavior. Like, to me, that's just like, yeah, I'm a fucked up person. I know that. And I don't give a shit.

[Brian]

Yeah. What about his first term? You think he's doing better than that or worse?

[Naima]

I would say definitely. I think that they're getting more done because they had that break in the middle to really plan out Project 2025. But what they're getting done, I don't think has been at all productive or beneficial to the American people as a whole. I mean, the amount of National Guard troops that have been deployed all over the country, massive waste of money, by the way.

[Brian]

It's expensive, right?

[Naima]

Like hundreds of millions of dollars to do that.

[Brian]

That's a lot.

[Naima]

Yeah. Meanwhile, I mean, the government shutdown. Horrific. A mess. Meanwhile, while all of these government employees are going on unpaid leave, are furloughed because of this government shutdown, you're redesigning the east wing. Is it the East Wing or the West Wing?

[Brian]

I know what you're talking about. I don't know which one.

[Naima]

Yeah, but you're renovating the White House.

[Brian]

A nine figure renovation.

[Naima]

Like, your name is on the fucking deed. Like, dude, what the fuck? It's just it. It feels honestly so disrespectful to watch him do so many things that are flagrant wastes of American tax dollars while simultaneously the government is not functioning. That is what a government shutdown is. It is not functioning.

[Brian]

Yeah. Did you see the framed photos in the hall?

[Naima]

No.

[Brian]

Of the presidents. Oh, you didn't see this?

[Naima]

What did he do?

[Brian]

So there's a photo of every president, like just their face. And then for Biden's, they put a pen and paper. They didn't put his face on it.

[Naima]

Wow.

[Brian]

Yeah, we'll throw up an image on the screen.

[Naima]

That's just so catty. That's like such a bitch move.

[Brian]

Yeah, they don't like each other.

[Naima]

I mean, I get It. But there's tons of presidents who don't like each other, but you still have to have that basic respect for the office. It commands respect. I mean, it's not an easy job. Whether or not you agree with your predecessor does not mean that their service to this country shouldn't be honored.

[Brian]

Yeah. I know you're young and you probably haven't thought about it too much, but would you ever run for, like, a political position?

[Naima]

Hell, no.

[Brian]

No.

[Naima]

I don't think there's really any power in it, to be honest with you. I mean. Well, no, that's not true. I think there is power in it, but I think that you are beholden to, you know, whoever is spending the most money on your campaign. I think that you can't really be as open and honest as, like, I can be sitting on a podcast. I would rather be a consultant, if that makes more sense.

[Brian]

It's way more. Less stressful, I'd say, too.

[Naima]

It's less stressful, or it can be. Yeah, it's less stressful. But it's also, you know, I feel like I kind of want to provide clarity and commentary on things that are happening. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. I mean, if I thought that it was going to be an effective way to bring positive change to this country, I would definitely reconsider and revisit it. But right now, I think I'm. I'm honestly, I agree with Tucker Carlson. I think the power is in the pundit.

[Brian]

Never thought you'd agree with Tucker Carlson.

[Naima]

Well, I mean, Tucker Carlson won't run for, like, similar reasons.

[Brian]

He has way more power right now. Look what happened to Dan Bongino. Bongino, however you pronounce it.

[Naima]

Yeah, no, exactly. That's what I'm saying. And I also think that, you know, you're held at an insane level of scrutiny as well as your family.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah.

[Naima]

And I don't know if I would like to raise a family in that environment. You know, I think that's difficult for the kids of politicians.

[Brian]

Yeah. You're pretty much giving up your. Your personal life.

[Naima]

Yeah. Any right to privacy. You know, like, at least we can turn off the cameras, but for them, it's. There's no off. And I think that would be really hard for, you know, a family to have to deal with.

[Brian]

For sure.

[Naima]

Want to be a kid of a politician.

[Brian]

Did you read Kamala's book?

[Naima]

No, I didn't read.

[Brian]

Really?

[Naima]

No.

[Brian]

You didn't feel compelled to read it? I mean, no, I got it on Audible I started it, and I. I wasn't feeling it.

[Naima]

I don't know. You know, I like Kamala Harris, but I do feel a little bit salty at the Democratic Party for not holding a legitimate primary, you know, And I feel like. I mean, I feel like Kamala was honestly handicapped because she never got to run a full campaign. Yeah. A lot of people didn't really knew who she was and what she stood for, truly, other than being the vp, which wasn't really enough. And I think Biden should have stepped down much, much sooner. I think that it was, like, a complete failure on the part of the dnc. And to me, it's like, we already saw this very popular white woman lose to Trump. Why would you try a less popular black woman? Like, I mean, I'm a black woman. Me and Kamala are the same color. But I know that right now, up against Trump, we just want it to be somebody else.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

Like, now is not the moment to push the most ideologically progressive agenda, at least on a presidential level, you know?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

Like, I would have rather someone who. I think, like, I would have rather literally anyone but Trump, to be honest.

[Brian]

Biden was too old.

[Naima]

I think Biden was too old. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think that the choices in nominees, like, just Kamala, did not have enough support on the left to be a smart choice as a candidate. And she's a woman and she's black.

[Brian]

Yeah. You know, she had a lot going against her.

[Naima]

She had a lot going against her, and I think that we should have been more realistic about that as a party. Be.

[Brian]

I'm very curious who your next one will be.

[Naima]

I. I think. I think it's gonna. I think it's gonna be.

[Brian]

I think that's what they're saying.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

New Semin aoc.

[Naima]

I wouldn't be surprised. I would not be surprised.

[Brian]

That'd be pretty formidable, I think, against Fans.

[Naima]

So you think Fans is gonna be the next.

[Brian]

I mean, he's definitely the net. He's gonna at least run, right?

[Naima]

Really?

[Brian]

Who else would it be?

[Naima]

I don't know. He's just been, like, dogged by the Internet so much. I.

[Brian]

Probably with the Palantir stuff.

[Naima]

With the what?

[Brian]

With the Palantir stuff, right?

[Naima]

Oh, no, I'm just talking about the memes. Stupid face. I feel like. I feel like he's lost a lot of. Like, I don't see him having any real gravitas, really.

[Brian]

Wow.

[Naima]

I mean, all the memes of him.

[Brian]

Like, well, he'll have the funding no matter what.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

He's got the crypto bros behind him.

[Naima]

But, I mean, at a certain point, you do have to get the votes.

[Brian]

That's true.

[Naima]

Is he popular enough?

[Brian]

I just don't know who else on the right it would be then, you know.

[Naima]

Yeah, that's true. Marjorie Taylor. Great.

[Brian]

Oh, God. She just announced her resignation.

[Naima]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

Honestly, can't beef with the big guy.

[Naima]

But see, that's again, talking about, like, how the entire party is kind of tangled up in Trump, you know?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

That, that to me is such a huge handicap for the Conservative Party. I mean, I think it goes both ways. Like right now, I think that we have two, like, directly opposing issues. I feel like Democrats fight too much. There's way too much infighting in terms of, like, progressive versus liberal.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

Like, we're all one party. We all carry some very similar ideals and values, and I do think that we should try and find more unity in that. But then on the right, it kind of feels like the party is just like whatever Trump says we're gonna do. And it's become a very singular party that just stands to defend anything that Trump does, which is a handicap of yourself. Because then again, if Trump fucks up now, you all have to spend so much time defending this one person.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

There's no room for criticism within the party, which I would be afraid of, to be honest with you. I don't think that consolidating political power, especially on an ideological level, is smart to do.

[Brian]

It's getting harder to defend him, though.

[Naima]

It's getting a lot harder to defend him. And are more conservatives going to start disagreeing with Trump?

[Brian]

You're starting to see it, I think.

[Naima]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's time. It's about damn time.

[Brian]

Even Alex Jones is like, what the hell?

[Naima]

It's too much, you know, too much.

[Brian]

The Marjorie thing put him over the edge. He was, like, really spooked by it.

[Naima]

It's a mess. I mean, it's a mess. Like, it, it. It's a cluster. Like watching it. It's sad for you.

[Brian]

Yeah. You know, I truly think if he doesn't release the files, he's going to lose a lot of people on the right.

[Naima]

I mean, well, it's like kind of a catch 22, cuz if he releases him and he's in them, he's.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

And if he doesn't release them, it's almost an admission of guilt.

[Brian]

Yeah. I wonder how they're gonna play it. There's so many allegedly people in it. I'm very Curious who actually is in it.

[Naima]

Yeah, well, because if you don't, if you, if you really. If you don't release the files, then I, I, as a person and a human in the world, I'm just going to assume you're not releasing them because you did something right that you don't naturally.

[Brian]

I feel like.

[Naima]

Yeah, yeah. It's like kind of the only logical conclusion. Yeah, yeah. No, it is scary. But even, like, debating in that middle ground, like, I could see division between CJ and the team.

[Brian]

Who was that other guy?

[Naima]

I have no idea.

[Brian]

I've never seen him before.

[Naima]

I don't think he's very popular. He was struggling to, like, finish sentences in the debate. I don't think he has a lot of experience in this world.

[Brian]

I could tell you three, You, Parker, and CJ kind of overpowered him.

[Naima]

I felt really bad for cj Honestly.

[Brian]

It was two on one.

[Naima]

It was a two on one. Because that guy was not helpful at all. He would just pipe up to be like. And I think the helmets are problems. It's like, that's not enough.

[Brian]

Yeah. If I was cj, I would have been like, what the hell, dude?

[Naima]

No, it was, it was really unfair. Like me and Parker. It was a softball debate.

[Brian]

And Parker has a lot of debate experience, too. He's on live, like, eight hours a day.

[Naima]

Yeah, he's really fun to debate with. I will say Parker, Adam Khan and Adam Mockler. I've done my middle grounds with them and I love debating with all of them. They were really good.

[Brian]

Yeah, Adam's a really good debater. Who's the most impressive debater on the right that you see?

[Naima]

Who's the most impressive debater? I honestly, I mean, I think out of all the debates I've done, I would say Ben Shapiro.

[Brian]

Really?

[Naima]

Out of the base, I've done.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Naima]

I would say Ben Shapiro, by far.

[Brian]

I used to watch a lot of his stuff. I haven't been too much into it lately.

[Naima]

Yeah, well, I mean, it gets a little sticky with the.

[Brian]

Yeah, big topic. He's lost a lot of support. I gotta chill on that. I got banned.

[Naima]

Everyone knows what we're talking about. Yes.

[Brian]

No, in terms of pure debate, though, I would put him up there.

[Naima]

Yeah, I think he was really strong. I mean, that was the only debate that I was like, damn. I. I for sure just lost this debate.

[Brian]

Really?

[Naima]

Yeah. No. Well, I think that a lot. I'm very hard on my.

[Brian]

What was the topic of that one?

[Naima]

I forget. But at one point. Oh. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I forgot.

[Brian]

Feminism.

[Naima]

No, there was a topic on abortion, but I never got to speak for that one.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Naima]

I could not run to the chair fast enough. And that haunts me.

[Brian]

What do you think of that format? Because you could be.

[Naima]

Because of.

[Brian]

Oh, they did.

[Naima]

Because of us being like, can we please stop running to the chair?

[Brian]

I was going to say. Because if you're the most knowledgeable on that specific topic about abortion and someone beats you to the chair, which is exactly what happened, then it makes you all look bad if they lose.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know what I mean?

[Naima]

Well, I mean, they did. They. All the people who got to the chair, I think did a good job, but I was just very frustrated because I very specifically wanted to come in to talk about abortion, but I never got.

[Brian]

And you're like, 95 pounds. You're short. Someone like me could take two steps and get to the chair before you.

[Naima]

And that. And I was wearing heels, and that is what happened. And that was actually in that first clip with Charlie Kirk, when I made that, like, face, like, looking hella mad. It was because of that. I was fucking sick of running to the goddamn.

[Brian]

So what did they change it to now?

[Naima]

Well, now it's like, if you want to go up for a topic, you raise your hand, the director picks you, and then they fake it.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah. But what if the director.

[Naima]

So it doesn't pick you. Yeah. So either way.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Do you feel like 20 is too many people?

[Naima]

Honestly? Yeah. I would probably do it with less people.

[Brian]

That's what I'm thinking.

[Naima]

There's like a three every episode who are kind of just there to say some goofy.

[Brian]

Yeah, get a clip.

[Naima]

Yeah. So I would do less people.

[Brian]

I think maybe 10. 10?

[Naima]

Honestly, 10 v1 would be cool.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

Or like 10 to 15.

[Brian]

Yeah. Because how do you get your word out with 20?

[Naima]

Yeah. And then everyone gets to go for, like, two claims. Yeah, like, that's how I feel. It would be fair. Like, everyone gets two claims, you know, so you get a first try, then if you kind of strike out on that one, you still get a second opportunity.

[Brian]

That'd be dope.

[Naima]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I'd love to see you as the one on one of the episodes. Would you ever do that?

[Naima]

I don't know. I mean, I would if they asked me, but I don't know what topic I would do.

[Brian]

Feminism.

[Naima]

Oh, I guess they probably would make me do feminine.

[Brian]

Yeah, that'd be a good one.

[Naima]

Oh, I guess they probably would want me to do that.

[Brian]

If you're watching this jubilee, I Mean.

[Naima]

That would be wild being the surrounded in a surrounding.

[Brian]

You verse 20 guys that are anti feminist.

[Naima]

That would be the security needs to be tight as up in here.

[Brian]

Yeah, you would need security on that one.

[Naima]

Yeah, no, I do think about that a lot. Just like personal safety.

[Brian]

Yeah, I don't blame you.

[Naima]

I have zero, zero self defense skills. Yeah, I would be super.

[Brian]

And in la you can't really own a gun. It's hard.

[Naima]

I know. Actually that might be. I probably. That might be probably my most conservative take. Oh yeah, I want a gun.

[Brian]

Oh, so you're pro gun.

[Naima]

I'm not pro gun in like a general sense. Like I don't really see the need for people to have automatic rifles. Yeah, like to me the main justifications for guns are recreational use, like hunting and for safety, for personal safety. If you're like a very tiny person who could never defend themselves physically again against the majority of the population, like you should probably have a gun. Right? No history of mental health. You should have a gun.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Naima]

But I think that my issue is just like, I don't know why we need military grade assault rifles, like as a society.

[Brian]

Yeah, that's pretty extreme.

[Naima]

It's too extreme. And it's what all of the school shooters use to kill people. It's like, okay, so if all of these people who are using guns incorrectly are using the exact same gun, you could just get rid of that one. You can start there, you know. Yeah, you could also what I think would be kind of cool is if there were gun ranges specifically for those military grade weaponry and it just stays there. So if you're an individual who, you know, enjoys recreational gun use and you want to use those kind of weaponry, maybe you don't need to own it, but there's ways for you to use it in a safe environment that's controlled, you know?

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah. I have a similar take. I mean growing up in New Jersey in a middle class family, I never felt like I needed one. So I was just privileged to grow up in that environment. But now that I'm in the public spotlight, I just got married. When I have kids, I sleep better at night. Owning a gun. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Naima]

I, you know, I think it would be cool to have one. And my boyfriend's a veteran, so it's like gun safety would be a very big priority in our house. Also, I have a cat that's a gremlin. She would accidentally shoot someone. Oh yeah, she would totally do that. I would not put it past her. But yeah, no, I don't. And also historically, when we see gun use actually being policed and like legitimate gun reform, one of the main examples of that was against the Black Panthers. So my fear is that if we have more strict gun laws, they are going to be unequally or disproportionately policed onto minority groups, you know, and it's going to become another method of policing minority groups. Yes. And, you know, contributing to the pipeline from, you know, the school to prison pipeline and mass incarceration instead of, you know, to keep children safe, which is my goal for gun reform.

[Brian]

Right. Makes sense. Well, guys, this should be releasing around the time you drop your show, so that's crazy. Yeah, we'll put that in the video. Congrats on becoming a podcaster now.

[Naima]

Thank you.

[Brian]

Crazy.

[Naima]

You can stop debating crazy.

[Brian]

One more semester college and then you're full time podcaster, huh?

[Naima]

Ah, that's a wild thought.

[Brian]

Let's go.

[Naima]

I guess technically.

[Brian]

Well, I'll be here if you need advice. I've been in the game for three years.

[Naima]

Learned a lot. Yes, I will.

[Brian]

So just text me if you need anything. But thanks for coming on again.

[Naima]

I appreciate it.

[Brian]

Check her out, guys. Check out her show. Peace.

[Naima]

Bye.

[Brian]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.