Neal Tricarico: Autistic Teens Are 30% More Likely to Die by Suicide | DSH #1759

Summary

Digital Social Hour, Episode #1759

Neal Tricarico: Autistic Teens Are 30% More Likely to Die by Suicide
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Neal Tricarico (Endurant Movement)
Date: January 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and unfiltered episode, Sean Kelly welcomes Neal Tricarico, founder of the Endurant Movement—a nonprofit born from Neal’s experience losing his son, Anthony, to suicide. The conversation unpacks the often-overlooked mental health struggles faced by autistic teens, systemic failures, and the urgent need for community-driven, stigma-breaking approaches. Neal shares his story of tragedy turned into purpose, exploring his family’s journey through grief, systemic gaps, and the emergence of the Endurant Movement, all while highlighting the necessity for authentic support, awareness, and post-traumatic growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin of the Endurant Movement (01:20–05:42)

• Neal introduces the Endurant Movement, rooted in the loss of his son, Anthony, who was diagnosed with high-functioning autism and died by suicide.
• The Movement aims to fill the critical gaps in support for autistic teens and their families, shifting emphasis from mere awareness to action and authentic connection.

Quote:
"When we learned kids between 12 and 18 on the autism spectrum are 30% more likely to take their own lives... that, coupled with Anthony's friends saying, 'If this could happen to him, it could happen to any of us,' we realized a call to something much greater." — Neal (03:41)

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2. The Systemic Gaps in Autism and Mental Health Care (00:00–01:20; 08:40–10:21)

• Autism service providers often lack training to address mental health risks, directing families to mental health professionals who are unequipped for autistic clients.
• Neal details how mental health systems lacked tailored protocols for autism, sometimes worsening Anthony’s isolation and feelings of helplessness.

Quote:
"Autism service providers are aware just how at risk these kids are, but they don't have any training to help them on the mental health side... On the mental health side, they were like, 'Oh, we don't have any special protocols.' And many things that happened in that space actually contributed to his isolation." — Neal (00:00; 08:40)

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3. The Prevalence and Changing Awareness of Autism (06:23–07:44)

• Discussion on the dramatic increase in autism diagnoses in recent years and shifting societal attitudes.
• Early diagnosis can be a double-edged sword—access to support, but also labeling and stigma.

Quote:
"I was fascinated at the time about the percentage of kids in his immediate group that also were on the spectrum... But no one ever shared with us this possibility of suicide in this group." — Neal (07:08; 07:44)

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4. The COVID Effect & Compounding Risk Factors (12:42–13:46)

• Isolation during COVID-19 exacerbated Anthony’s depression, removing his primary social and coping activities like fishing.
• For autistic male teens, especially post-pandemic, risk of suicide can surpass 60%.

Quote:
"For him and others on the spectrum... that's when Anthony was diagnosed officially with depression... So between COVID, the teenage boy, and this particular diagnosis, that percentage is shocking." — Neal (12:42; 13:46)

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5. The Masking Phenomenon: Thriving on the Outside, Hurting Within (21:18–23:10)

• Anthony achieved high grades, martial arts success, and entrepreneurship, while masking his true challenges.
• The effort to ‘pass as normal’ is often invisible and comes at great personal cost.

Quote:
"Friends, parents, teachers—everyone's like 'Oh my gosh, this kid is thriving.' But it was so hard for us because we knew it was at such a tremendous cost. That camouflaging, that masking to fit in sadly ultimately broke him." — Neal (21:53; 23:10)

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6. Identity, Authenticity, and Belonging (24:16–28:18)

• Discussion about whether emotional skills are learnable and if fitting in is always the right goal.
• Both Sean and Neal reflect on their own masking, identity struggles, and the power of authenticity.

Quote:
"Is it ultimately better to appear to be emotionally connected, or might it be better to appear as you are in your most authentic, real way? That emotion isn't a part of your makeup, and other things are." — Neal (24:16)

• Neal stresses helping teens "find their tribe, their superpowers, and their superheroes," reframing autism as difference, not disorder.

Quote:
"If we say 'autism spectrum disorder,' we're labeling these kids... The work they're doing, the therapy, is to become normal. It's so profound... what's working is taking that D out, calling it a difference." — Neal (16:02)

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7. Breaking Stigma & Rewriting the Narrative (18:39–19:59)

• Both discuss the need to stop shaming and start celebrating neurodiversity, emphasizing how many successful figures are on the spectrum.

Quote:
"We should stop shaming autism and start embracing those superpowers... They don't want to see their autistic friends die, but they also don't want to see their friends body-shamed or shamed for their orientation or differences." — Neal (18:47; 19:59)

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8. Harnessing Community & Spirituality in Grief (30:21–36:05)

• Neal recounts the profound support received from community events (prayer circles of all beliefs) after Anthony’s passing.
• He credits spiritual guidance (from medium Jessenia and Tony Robbins' mentorship) with helping transmute grief into mission.

Quote:
"All these beliefs, what was received by Anthony, Samara, my family, and me was pure love and light... across all beliefs, it was love, deep connection, and community that was critical." — Neal (32:32)

• Tony Robbins’ message:
  "If your eyes and hearts are open, you're being called to something greater. There's a greater lesson here." — Recounted by Neal (33:44)

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9. From Trauma to Growth: Post-Traumatic Growth (43:53–50:35)

• Neal introduces the concept of post-traumatic growth: choosing to seek meaning and purpose in trauma rather than remaining in suffering.
• He reflects on his deepened capacity for both pain and joy since Anthony’s loss, and describes efforts to help others do the same.

Quote:
"If the purpose is greater than the pain, you will take action. So post-traumatic growth is making a decision that there's some reason that this trauma had for me... If you don't find the purpose, you're going to stay in suffering. When you do, the opportunity for growth is extraordinary." — Neal (44:08; 47:51)

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10. The Vision: Teen Voices, Media, and Connection (41:08–42:36)

• The Endurant Movement is launching "Teen Voices," a podcast platform for teens to support, interview one another, and amplify voices on issues like body shaming, bullying, and identity.
• Neal highlights the healing and therapeutic aspects of podcasting and sharing stories, vowing to create more such opportunities.

Quote:
"We got a donation from Tony Robbins... to build this studio where teens can start shooting their episodes. It's in our garage... But if there's an opportunity for them to hear from you and see how you're doing it, it would mean so much to these kids." — Neal (41:08)

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11. How to Support the Endurant Movement (51:33–53:21)

• Donations and, even more importantly, spreading awareness and subscribing to "The Endurance Show" are the best ways to help.
• Teen-led content drops soon, and the movement is being featured by Apple and Spotify for Suicide Awareness Month.

Quote:
"What's most helpful is awareness... To subscribe to our show, if the content resonates, to leave a review... Awareness is the cure. The more that we can get these stories out and impact and save lives, the rest will take care of itself." — Neal (51:39; 52:45)

- Website: [endurantmovement.org](https://endurantmovement.org)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On systemic failure:
  “Autism service providers are aware just how at risk these kids are, but they don't have any training to help them on the mental health side... Many things that happened for him actually contributed to his isolation.” — Neal (00:00; 08:40)

• On the risk statistic:
  “Kids, especially between 12 and 18 who are on the autism spectrum, are 30% more likely to take their own lives. This group is the highest percentage of completion.” — Neal (03:41; 11:11)

• On reframing autism:
  “We should stop shaming autism and start embracing those superpowers.” — Neal (18:47)

• On finding meaning in loss:
  “If the purpose is greater than the pain, you will take action.” — Neal (44:08)

• Sean’s vulnerable share:
  "I used to host parties myself... trying to fit in, trying to please people. Kids would mess up my house with no regard. And it just made me feel even worse, honestly." — Sean (28:22)

• On post-traumatic growth:
  “Post traumatic growth is a real thing. I’m living it and it’s part of our mission... If we stay on this side of suffering, you know, it’s a tragedy.” — Neal (47:51)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:20 — Neal introduces Endurant Movement's origin
• 08:40 — The failings of service providers for autistic teens
• 12:42 — COVID’s specific impact on Anthony’s mental health
• 18:39 — Discussion on shaming vs. embracing autism
• 21:18 — Anthony's masking and the hidden cost of appearing 'normal'
• 24:16 — Is emotional connection learnable or is authenticity more important?
• 30:21 — Neal recounts the community’s response after Anthony’s attempt and passing
• 43:53 — Post-traumatic growth vs. post-traumatic stress
• 51:33 — How listeners can support Endurant Movement and The Endurance Show

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Episode Tone & Closing Thoughts

Personal, raw, and hopeful—this conversation blends heartbreaking loss with an inspiring commitment to cultural change. Neal’s vulnerable storytelling and Sean’s own openness underscore the need for deeper understanding, connection, and action within and beyond the autism community.

Call to Action:
Subscribe to The Endurance Show, spread the word, and support endurantmovement.org to shift awareness, save lives, and empower young people to share their voices.

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Transcript

[Neil]

Autism service providers are aware just how at risk these kids are, but they don't have any training to help them on the mental health side. So they send us over to the mental health side. When you come over to the mental health side, those providers share. Hey, you know, because we would share with them. Hey, Anthony's on the spectrum and this was a two year journey for us. Anthony was wildly aware of this as a real possibility for him. But each time we would mention autism or high functioning autism, they were like, oh, well, we don't have any special protocols. And in fact, many of the things that happened for him in that space actually contributed to his isolation, to his helplessness. We've only come to learn about after.

[Sean]

Okay, guys, very special guest today. Very special episode. It's going to hit pretty deep with a lot of you guys. We got Neil from the Endurant movement. Thanks for. Did you drive or fly out today?

[Neil]

I drove out.

[Sean]

Thanks for the drive, man.

[Neil]

Yeah, you bet.

[Sean]

Five hour drive, right?

[Neil]

Yeah, five hours. Happy to be here.

[Sean]

San Diego, that's where home is.

[Neil]

That's where home is. Yes.

[Sean]

You've been there for a while.

[Neil]

I've been there for 20 years.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

Yeah, it feels like the sweet spot of the universe to be on that coast and just, you know, blessed for the climate and the people there. It's a pretty, pretty special spot.

[Sean]

Nice. So for those that don't know the endurance movement, I think we should start there. Right? Could you explain what that's about?

[Neil]

Yeah. So the endurant movement was born out of the tragic loss of our son Anthony. Anthony was bright, brilliant, seemingly thriving. But Anthony also suffered from or was diagnosed with high functioning autism. And sadly, about a year ago he took his life. And born out of that loss. Even speaking about it elicits. It takes my breath away. I want to be in the corner in the fetal position. But something magical came from that loss. A profound purpose, if you will, and a desire of movement, some action within us that my wife and I realized amidst this deep pain there was a stronger calling or a greater purpose to help others. And through that the endurance movement was founded. It was born out of the profound love we experienced from our community. The cheering on, if you will, of how important it was for us to share our story and how it was helping so many people and also to. To honor Anthony. Anthony was aware of his ideations and there was a two year journey for us where we were trying to save his life. And sadly, what we came to realize after is that kids, especially between 12 and 18 who are on the autism spectrum are 30% more likely to take their own lives. Yeah. And so from that came this, this, this pull. Right when I say the purpose is greater than the pain, we could easily be in the corner in the fetal position suffering. But when we learned that, and that coupled with Anthony's friends saying, gosh, if this could happen to him, it could happen to any of us, we realized a call to something much greater. And what we found was, as an extension of the movement is that these teens really need our help. What they're sharing with us is that what we're doing for them is not working. So that, that being having some expert come into high schools and delivering a 45 minute presentation across a PowerPoint deck of what to look for in your friends and then what to tell your parents and then leaving isn't working. What they're asking for are safe spaces where they can support each other in their healing and growth. And also for voices. So as I've shared, we've launched the Endurance show to spread awareness for these life saving opportunities. And what we've come to realize is that they have their voices. So since we're a newer organization, we're pivoting and growing like crazy and excited to share, we're launching the teen Voices component of the Endurance show where teens themselves are will be interviewing one another, interviewing experts on topics that are most relevant to them. Teen mental health, body shaming, bullying, sexual orientation, diversity, growing up in a household where it's not okay to cry. So anyways, long story short, the Endurant movement is born out of our son Anthony's story and my wife and I and our family and our daughter and answering that call to something greater. But its intention, through the 501 C3, it's a nonprofit, is to create this movement that will ultimately lead, be led by teens and other families as we look to, to help people through the same journey, hopefully through awareness of saving lives and in the event that lives are lost, to help people transmute that deep pain into growth that we can actually grow from loss. We could easily experience, you know, post traumatic stress disorder and be paralyzed by our grief and suffering. Or we can make a decision that something is greater. There might be a greater calling out of this. And if we're able to open our hearts and our eyes to the possibility, we could grow in the most beautiful and profound ways.

[Sean]

First of all, thanks for what you do, man. Very brave of you. And on our intro call, I shared what happened with my father. You know, my father had they called the Asperger's pretty similar to autism, right?

[Neil]

Yeah, that was actually that. That was the diagnosis. That was Anthony's diagnosis. For some reason, it's gotten confusing now to put it in on the spectrum where it's a part of everything else. But, yes, I can. Really.

[Sean]

Got diagnosed at 60, and then, you know, he took his own life. So we share that bond.

[Neil]

And.

[Sean]

And I think it's really important because now I have a lot of friends that are having kids, and I would say a majority of them are getting diagnosed with autism. More than 50%. Isn't that crazy?

[Neil]

It is so crazy.

[Sean]

It's really alarming. So this is going to be a major issue.

[Neil]

It is. It is. Yeah, it is. It is so alarming. And the prevalence of the diagnosis is so much greater because certainly back when I was growing up, there was an even diagnosis, and then there was diagnosis, you know, 20 some years ago with Asperger's. Now people are finding the courage and strength to. To say, hey, I may be a bit different. Let me find out what's going on.

[Sean]

Yeah. I was on the phone with my mother yesterday, and she grew up in China. I was asking her, hey, did people grow up with autism around you? She said she couldn't remember a single kid. Like, I asked her, did people have acne? She said, no, there's just all these health issues now. It's really weird.

[Neil]

It is. You know, it is. And it's. It's fascinating that you say like, over 50%, because interestingly enough, you know, I remember back, I hadn't thought about this, but, you know, when Anthony was born, we met other parents, whether it be through birthing classes or, you know, playgroups, if you will. And I was fascinated at the time about the percentage of kids in his immediate group that also were on the spectrum. Yeah.

[Sean]

My sample size is small. Granted, maybe 10 friends, but over five of them have already diagnosed. And I'm talking babies, like, not even, like, fully grown yet. And they're already noticing it in babies, you know.

[Neil]

Yeah. It's so very hard. And I'm also grateful to hear that they're recognizing it early, because that's one thing that was helpful for us, was that Anthony was diagnosed around 6 years old. And so the services and everything that we had were extremely helpful, and in some ways, they were anticipatory and that they shared. You know, Anthony may have a difficulty making friends. He may be susceptible to bullying, and in our case, fortunately, I think because of his ability to learn how to live In a society that thought differently than him, he was able to camouflage and mask that. So he had a tremendous group of friends. I wasn't bullied, but one of the things that hurts my heart and my wife's heart is that no one ever shared with us this possibility of suicide in this group.

[Sean]

And they were talking with each other about it.

[Neil]

Yeah, I mean, so they, you know, when. When Anthony went to the autism center for services, he would go four days a week, and then once or twice a month, they would meet with my wife and me and talk about how he was progressing and things to anticipate. But they never mentioned this statistic. Yeah, we only learned about it after. And so what was hard was in reaching back out to these centers is. It is the elephant in the room, if you will. Autism service providers are aware just how at risk these kids are, but they don't have any training to help them on the mental health side. So they send us over to the mental health side. When you come over to the mental health side, those providers share. Hey, you know, because we would share with them, hey, Anthony's on the spectrum. I mean, this was a two year journey for us. Anthony was wildly aware of. This is a real possibility for him. But each time we would mention autism or high functioning autism, they were like, oh, well, we don't have any special protocols. And in fact, many of the things that happened for him in that space actually contributed to his isolation, to his helplessness. We've only come to learn about after.

[Sean]

Because they were probably putting him on medication, right?

[Neil]

Yeah. And he was super resistant to that. We supported him in it. In his case, when he was on that medication, it actually increased his ideation.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Was it antidepressants?

[Neil]

I think so. I mean, it was only a few days we were. He was actually so uncomfortable in the institution or facility, if you will.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

That beforehand, while he was begging us to have him go because he needed that kind of help, then he was begging us to. To take him out. He didn't like the rooms with no windows, all the. The light, the medication. Also in the support groups, other kids were giving him ideas. So we're not here to like, to really blame or point fingers, but to point out, you know, two important gaps as it relates to autism. There's this huge gap. The. The statistics are undeniable. They're doing great things in Europe about it. And in addition to the 30% more likelihood, this group is the highest percentage of completion, meaning they're not doing it for attention. They're Doing it with their black and white thinking to, to complete.

[Sean]

That's a 12 to 18 group you're talking.

[Neil]

Yeah, that's a 12 to 18 group.

[Sean]

Is that males?

[Neil]

Males statistically are higher. What's scary is if you take teenage males ASD diagnosis and Covid Anthony was more than 60% likely to do this.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Neil]

Yeah, it's crushing to think about after.

[Sean]

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[Neil]

Yeah, yeah, Covid. So Covid, for him and others on the spectrum, that that's when Anthony was diagnosed officially with depression.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Neil]

So when Covid hit and he could no longer be out and about with his friends, playing free fishing, seeing them, interacting with them, he fell into a deep depression. It's very difficult to get him out of bed. Fishing is something he shared with his buddies and I shared with him. But it's very difficult to convince a high functioning autistic child that it's okay to go past the police tape to go fishing. Right. They're very rules oriented.

[Sean]

So it's, it's like they handled it the worst.

[Neil]

The worst, right. So eventually we were able to convince him like, hey, we're not going to get in trouble, let's go fishing and stuff. But yeah, between Covid, the teenage boy and this particular diagnosis, it's that, that has so much to do with, with the pull like that. That percentage is shocking.

[Sean]

I see so many similarities. My father, he was big on fishing and he couldn't do that during the pandemic. In Jersey, pretty liberal state. And also he was in a psych ward right before he took his life. And he was never the same after that. The withdrawal from the medication got him shaking and just in his own head.

[Neil]

You know, I. I do. When you say, I know I'm. You know, I'm so. I'm so sorry. And it's. It's something that. That I've come to understand, stays with folks. I mean, you said your dad was 60. Like that, that. That perseverance of those ideas in their heads, if you will, just. Just continues. And. And we want and need to be able to help them. And Anthony's situation was very similar. I could remember walking out of the mental health facility and to just see him take in the fresh air and the trees and feel this relief and saying, I never want to do that again. And my wife and I quietly had hoped like maybe in some way he was, like, scared straight or was like, I don't want to do this. But what he also said to us that was very scary was he said, you know, I'm. I'm never going to share about this with you guys again. There's no help for me. And that. That. That scared us tremendously. Even over the next, you know, 10, 11 months or a year between that experience and him ultimately taking his life, we were able to communicate about it with him. And it was so important to him that we used the word that we. Stigmatism. I know it. It sucks for these capabilities where we want to spread awareness that we can't say the word. But it was important to him that we broke the stigma around suicide. This mission is born from his experience, but also there was a profound helplessness. It sounds maybe similar to your father's story where, like, there is no help for me. Where do I fit in?

[Sean]

A lot of isolation, man. Yeah. We're social creatures, right?

[Neil]

Yes.

[Sean]

We don't have people to talk to. I've been through it, too. I've been depressed, diagnosed anxiety, all that. And when I look back at that time period, I was by myself. I didn't have anyone around me. You know, I didn't have anyone to talk to. Yeah.

[Neil]

I'm so grateful you've brought us on and that you're, you know, sharing vulnerably about your story, too. So one of the things that we've come to learn, Sean, is through some. Some work and some experts that we've been blessed to interact with since then, and Primarily this psychologist, Dr. Gupta, is there's no. There's not. There's nothing really profound. We need to do what. What he and others are doing that we found that's working is just sitting these kids down and helping them understand they're not their diagnosis. Even the word disorder. So if we say autism spectrum disorder, were labeling these kids as having a disorder, right? And so immediately, by telling them they have a disorder now that the work that they're doing, the therapy is to become normal. And it. It hurts my heart so much because after Anthony's passed, we found journals. I have autism. I'm different. What's wrong with me? I have a disorder. And we just not. Not flippantly, but we. We. That's what they called it, Autism spectrum disorder. So we use the word to. We used asd. We proliferated that. But what they're finding out is really working is taking that D out. Just saying, hey, you have something called autism, and it's a difference. So our eyes are both brown. But, you know, someone I just met from here is blue eyes, right? So we have brown eyes. We have blue eyes. Helping these kids understand that there's just a uniqueness and a difference and also to embrace that difference. So when we can help them find their tribe, their superpowers, and their superheroes, extraordinary things can happen. You know, so for me, I grew up in the 80s. I loved sports. You know, Keith Hernandez was my hero. You know, other generations that may be sports people or rock stars, but what they're helping these kids understand is what's their superpower, right? Their unique gifts that we all have. And they're super bright and intelligence. They have gifts who are their tribes, where they can fit in, and those gifts resonate and who are their superheroes? So in many cases for these kids, it's like Elon Musk, right? High functioning autistic. I mean, just wildly successful. But it. But it's so profound. So there's not like, oh, we need to do millions of dollars of research, or we just need to help these kids embrace their differences, find their superheroes, find their tribe, and then help them through this very risky period so that they can thrive as adults, much like many of the most successful people we can think of do, many of whom are on the spectrum.

[Sean]

Many, many top CEOs, top athletes, top professionals. That's why I think we should rewrite the narrative around shaming autism.

[Neil]

Yes.

[Sean]

I think it should be seen as a power these days.

[Neil]

Man, I don't know. You've got 4K cameras here. Maybe it picks up these goosebumps. But yeah, you know, and you Know this. This difference is near and dear to. To me because it happened to us, but as the mission of endurance. By the way, endurance means capable of overcoming extreme adversity and hardship. And it also has a little meaning to us as well because it has ant in it. And ant was Anthony's nickname. That's how he was known. But. But we. We agree we should stop shaming autism and embracing those superpowers. But then also, as we've understood from these other kids, they don't want to see their autistic friends die, but they don't also want to see their friends body shamed or shamed because of their, you know, orientation or differences or their upbringing. And so, yeah, man, I think that's what this is really grounded about, is helping these teens who know what to do to. To transcend from shaving shaming to not only acceptance, but appreciation, acknowledgment of those gifts and superpowers, for sure.

[Sean]

Yeah. So I got diagnosed at 27. With it, I can't even think. But if I got diagnosed at 7 or even 17, my life would have looked a lot different, I think. Yeah, it would have put me in the special classes. I would have been shamed. I would have been bullied. Yeah. So part of me is kind of grateful in a way that it happened so late, because I think if it happened earlier, it would have been a very different life.

[Neil]

And I agree. I mean, just generally speaking and not trying to know, be, Be flippant. I'm a firm believer in all of us have our. Our. Our journeys to arrive where we have. And when. When I think about your story and your impact on such a wide scale at such a young age. Absolutely right. And you had to overcome some adversity or struggle to transformation to make that happen. And I think that there. There are opportunities for these kids with this diagnosis to grow and thrive in a way that's not separate in shaming, again, dropping that disorder, integrating them, because, yeah, they're beloved. Anthony's friends are beside themselves. Like, if this could happen to Anthony, it could happen to anyone. They're just shocked.

[Sean]

Did his friends have it too, or what was the friend group?

[Neil]

So, yeah, great question. I mean, most of Anthony's friend group did not. It was. I mean, like I said early on, when he was a baby, that initial friend group did. And one of the things that's really fascinating about Anthony's story is how hard he worked to learn the skills to fit in into an emotional world when he was an unemotional person. So I would say the majority of his friend group were not diagnosed. Um, or, excuse me, did, did not, did not have the diagnosis. And, and most of them didn't even know he did.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

That's how well he hit it. Well, he hit it really, really well. And for us, that's what was most confusing because here you have this kid with a 4.6 grade point average. 4.6. Multiple AP classes, thrived in martial arts, was a black belt, took on challenges. He was in a, a, A boot camp. What's the, what's the word I'm looking for? Navy SEAL style boot camp. That was for 16 to 18 year olds. And I think he convinced them to let him do it, even though he was 15, something like that. And he was the youngest person to ever complete this.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

He was doing Spartans. He was an entrepreneur. He melted and sold fishing lures. When that wasn't profitable, he turned to merch. We found these different accounts that he was selling stuff. He also had a job at a local restaurant. So from the outside world, everyone's like, oh, my gosh, this, this kid is thriving. Friends, parents, teachers. But it was so hard for us because we knew it was at such a tremendous cost that camouflaging, that masking to fit in sadly ultimately broke him.

[Sean]

Wow. Yeah. That emotional aspect of autism, do you think that's learnable? Because that's something I've struggled with myself.

[Neil]

Great question. How to interact with others and in an emotional world is learnable through my observation, not through my experience. But what, what is also interesting to me is, is at what cost and is it really better? And I maybe pose this back as a question to you because, you know, I don't know, because I didn't live his life and it was such a struggle for me. But I guess the question that comes from it for me, is it. Is it ultimately better to appear to be emotionally connected or might it be better to. To appear as you are in your most authentic, real way? That emotion isn't a part of your makeup and other things are.

[Sean]

Wow, what a great question.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know.

[Neil]

Yeah, my gut is the latter.

[Sean]

Yeah, I gotta really think about that. Yeah, I, I love authenticity myself. So when someone's faking it a little too much, I find that inauthentic.

[Neil]

Yeah, me, me too. And that's what I love about you and your show. And I think it's a really interesting question we should explore with you and others like you, because I've seen the impact of how hard he masked. I mean, he took his Life now I wonder if he got through this critical period, might that help him in later years? But in some ways it's not being true to yourself. Yeah, right. We want to transcend doing, I mean like we, we want to transcend like trying to fit in to, to being acknowledged and accepted. So as, as I sit here, but not living in your shoes or his shoes, my opinion would be that, that, that we should be authentic and those of us that, that are emotional and are looking for that emotional connection should look to accept where people, how and where they are and try and find that connection point. And as we're sharing this, it makes me think about just how hard it was to connect with Anthony because being vulnerable and real is, I'm a very, he's authentic too, but a very emotional person. So I was trying to impart or ingrain that emotional connection. Whereas in hindsight I maybe could have done a better job of letting that go and trying to find what was his juice.

[Sean]

Right. Because you live in empathy. Maybe he never had that capability. Right.

[Neil]

Yes.

[Sean]

That's certain levels of autism. Some of them are even nonverbal. Some can't process emotions.

[Neil]

That's right. And that's what's tricky about the breadth of the spectrum. Right. It's like I have people ask me like, well, how are non verbals 30% more likely to take their own lives than the high functioning? And it's, it's, it's, it's both helpful and confusing that the spectrum's so broad.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, myself, I'll speak on myself. I know about your son, but I grew up with a lot of identity issues. You know what I mean?

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I was constantly trying to please people. I wasn't being my authentic self because I was scared to. Yeah. But now at 28, I could finally say I'm authentic, like I'm doing whatever I want and there's no shame anymore, man.

[Neil]

Brings me so much joy to hear that and also so much hope, like if we can help these kids at risk, the 30% of them. Right. I mean, so a third in that range to, to thrive through that period and get to that place you have will be profound because I know with certainty Anthony struggled with identity all through his journey, always trying to fit in and magically he was fitting in. But what was fascinating when I, when I think about it, I think about some, some parties he had. He was very social and he would, he would have parties and get togethers in high school, even though his, his experimentation with, you know, drinking or cannabis was, was Very short. He found he didn't like how it altered his thinking. But he would host these parties and just love the connection and everything, but. But sometimes I would peek outside and watch him, and I could see him struggling, and I. The words that come to mind is like, in an identity chase. And always like, who am I going to be? What am I going to do? And he would talk to me about that a lot. Like, we should do a podcast together. We got to get this word out and help people. That was going to be his senior project. So so much of the vision and mission is us carrying that forward through him for him, but it's. It's helping these kids understand it's okay to not have an identity and explore who you are over the years. I mean, you. You found it at 28. I'm. You know, I've been thrust into an entirely new identity, so maybe it's taking some of that pressure off in those early years.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's so relatable, man. I used to host parties myself, you know.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Trying to fit in, trying to please people. Kids would mess up my house with no regard. And it just made me feel even worse, honestly. Crazy.

[Neil]

Yeah, it is. And it really hits home. I'm grateful that you've shared that with me. It's. It's hard because, you know, I. I've been able to transcend sort of my regret, but it's not to. To fall back. It's just human to fall back into it. But I've learned so much and met so many people, and just my human nature is. Gosh, I wish I knew that then.

[Sean]

Right.

[Neil]

But I. And that. That call. That call, if we want to explore that at all, that. That. That call to something greater that opened up from this is so profound that there's an opportunity to. To impact so many more lives. It's. It's a tremendous personal cost, but a greater impact if. For saving multiple lives.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

And it. It happened to cost one, albeit, you know, our son.

[Sean]

Yeah. My fault. I didn't mean that as. As an attack on you.

[Neil]

No, no, no. And please, no, no. No fault whatsoever. I would have wanted to say, but maybe didn't come across as. I'm. I'm grateful for those reminders because it both puts me in the shoes of the parents who are going through it now, who we can help, and also that this happening to me is. I mean, let's be very clear. I would trade it all to have him back. And this happening the moment that our lives changed and the path that we're on more is a far greater impact and meaning than what I was doing before. And lives are at risk and to be saved. So no fault. It's a reminder and encouragement that we really are on the right track. So thank you.

[Sean]

I love that. I did want to bring up Jesenia, which is how we met, and she's. Change my life. Change your life.

[Neil]

Yes.

[Sean]

Provided me so much closure with what happened to my father. I'm sure she did the same for you.

[Neil]

Yeah. So we're talking about Justinia, a common friend of ours, and she was somebody that. That I'm grateful that I was introduced to early on to make some spiritual sense of this. And I'd love to go back, if I might, just a moment sooner and then come back to Jaseni, if it's all right, because I think this context is important. But from Anthony's attempt to his ultimate passing was about nine weeks. You know, Anthony had a coping mechanism when he was really down and struggling to go outside and get some fresh air. And on this particular night, that's what he shared with us. And unfortunately, on this particular night, that was the first time he made a different decision. It didn't come back. Sadly, he hung himself. And when first responders found him, they were able to revive him, but his brain injuries were so significant that he was in a. In a coma for nine weeks. But two. Two things happened that really catapulted all this and then ultimately led to Justinia was number one is a client of mine, Susan McGinnis, who runs this core mastermind. She asked if she could host a All faiths welcome prayer circle to send love and light to Anthony. This was the third night at the hospital. We said yes, we were willing to do whatever it took. Some 75 people showed up from that, from different faiths, different beliefs, all pouring their love into Anthony and into us. And I think that's the first time we got out of the fetal position. Kind of said, okay, we're open to this. And then what happened from there is each Sunday for nine weeks and someone new stepped up and led this. All faiths welcome prayer circle. So whether Jesus died on the cross so that Anthony could. In the Buddhist tradition, we believe X so that Anthony could. The Zohar explains this, or in my non faith belief, I believe this. But what was powerful is across all these beliefs, what was received by Anthony Samara, my family and me was pure love and light. So all the. All the friction, all the polarity, all the things that used to exist through people's interpretation of religion. It was almost like we transcended that to what it really actually was, was love, deep connection and profound connection and community that was critical. Then the second thing that happened is I am, you know, grateful. In my previous life, I worked a number of years with. With Tony Robbins on his executive team. I was his executive leader for business sales, and I'm part of what he would call his chosen family. And on the second or third night, he reached out and sent my wife and me an audio. And, you know, he acknowledged what was going on and. But he implored us, and I'll remember it. He said something to the effect of Neil and Samara. I know it's very difficult to feel or think about this now, but if you open your heart and you open your eyes, you're being called to something greater should you choose. There's a greater lesson here.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

If your eyes and hearts are open, you're going to make new friends, join new cohorts, find new mentors, reconnect with old mentors, but people are going to show up in your life that are going to become part of this journey. And at first, when we got over, like, oh, that. That's so Tony. You know, we're struggling over here. Our son is hanging out by a thread. It was almost like this shockwave went through us. The next moment we were outside the hospital, this woman came up from out of nowhere who is one of Anthony's friends, moms. And she said, hey, I'm so glad to run across you. And I hope this doesn't sound strange, but you guys, like, if you open your eyes, there's angels all around you here on Earth that want to show up and help.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

So that. That's been our. Our journey. I mean, even up to this moment. New friend, new cohort, new way to share this journey. So literally, we've just had to keep showing up. So that gets us to Jessenia, where things really changed. And my wife and I are so grateful that the spiritual mediumship work that Justinia has done and help us to. To understand that this is, in fact, a greater mission, a soul's mission to hear and experience through Anthony himself. Mom and dad, you guys are capable of this. You're chosen. It's a small amount of pain that you, too, can endure for a much larger and greater impact. That that whole confluence of community into spirituality has put us into this almost in between portal. You know, we're certainly not in heaven, but we're not here on Earth. We're. I feel the Connection. I feel our hearts and souls connected through this. I feel a larger mission at play in this, and I just thank spirit, God, universe, whatever you want to call it. Every day, just sending a. You know, other than my immediate family has had the most profound impact on our ability to. To alchemize this. This pain and to stay on this side of suffering so that we might impact lives.

[Sean]

Wow. I mean, you already are. I don't think it's my anymore. You probably have hundreds of people like that you're affecting already, right, man.

[Neil]

Yes. You know, it's, It's. I don't. I don't know why I'm reluctant to admit because, like, sometimes it just feels like, you know, hey, every. Just grieving, trying to share our story. But yes, hundreds have reached out, dozens have reached out personally about specific things we've said or shared that impacted a conversation with their child.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

Some of which were in crisis and. Or attempt mode. Yeah.

[Sean]

So those guys will go on to have families like the Butterfly effect, you know?

[Neil]

Yes. Without question. So I'm glad that. I don't know, maybe I'll put a stake in the sand and stop talking about in the, in the future. Lives are actually.

[Sean]

Yeah. You're living it right now. And the feedback from this one's going to be amazing. I get messages every day myself, and it's like. Reminds me why I'm doing this, you know, because it's easy to get lost in the sauce of social media. But when you see the impact, especially when people come up to you in person, like, that's when it really hits me.

[Neil]

Yes, man, yes. Gosh, yes. And all of what you said there is true, too. Sometimes with social media and the. How it polarizes or. Or certain things that, that we need or throttled sort of gets me down. But it's, It's. It's folks like you that, that remind me, like there's. And. And one of your interviews, this guy shared it as well. It's like, damn it, we. We have to. We have to play this game. Yeah. And. And so that, that, that really resonated with me. Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna play the game until I can take it to a place where we can change the rules of the game and create a new game.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

And that's really what I see you're doing, man. And I, And I honor you and I'm borrowing a lot of confidence from what I see you doing.

[Sean]

Thank you. Thank you, man. How did you meet your Sonia? Was it through a mutual friend?

[Neil]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was. I mean, just like Tony said, I met this person, Mateen, who, who I had this session with, to understand that my, my superpowers are the transmission of love and wisdom, that I should step into a more public experience of that public speaking, getting on shows, podcasts, which I was petrified about, but, but on some level struck me as like, oh, that, that, that feels right. So I've been stepping into it, and after my session with him, he's like, hey, I want to introduce you to a friend of mine, Justinia. She has this gift that she does for parents who have lost a child. And that's when I had that, that first reading.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

Yeah. And, and when it, yeah, it was very, it was some part like explaining and understanding the peace that Anthony was at, which gave me a lot of peace, and also his journey and the fears that I had about loss through suicide. But it was only a small portion of that. The rest of it was like this, this call to this, this soul mission and this alignment that we contracted in some way for this greater impact that just struck me in a very vertical way. And yeah, can compelled me into action. And I didn't know what action to take. But what was so beautiful about having our hearts cracked wide open was that all of the next right actions just show up. The only time there's friction is when I get into my head or think that I have to do something or create something for more of an impact.

[Sean]

The logical brain takes.

[Neil]

The logical brain takes over. So I'm doing everything I possibly can to keep this heart open, keep these eyes open, and just stay open and connected.

[Sean]

I love that. Yeah, my thoughts used to control me. I would lay a bed at night and just go crazy, like, thinking I'm like, not enough, you know? Now I just, I try to live in flow state. I, I, I recognize the thoughts now. I try not to, like, let my thoughts control me.

[Neil]

You're going to have such an impact on, on these teens growing up. I know so much of what you're doing or my observation of what you're doing is on a, a larger scale. But for, for kids and teens to, to hear about that from you. We're not, we're not trying to change that, but it's kind of like, oh, me too. And then the rest of your story is like, and, and here's what, here's what's possible. Here's what's become of it.

[Sean]

Oh, yeah, it hits very deep for me because I had a lot of issues as a Teen, you know, mentally, physically, a lot of identity issues. Even my body, I wasn't confident in my, my physical appearance. So when I get asked to speak at schools, I do it for free. Like I don't even charge because I know it's going to go on to have some big impact. Even if it's just like 20 kids in a classroom like my old high school teachers will come out, ask me to speak. And I love it, you know, because you're very vulnerable, like mindset wise at those ages. Your brain's still developing until 26.

[Neil]

Well, man, we, we would love to, to have you. I know you get to, to San Diego from time to time, but it would mean so much to these kids to, to hear from you.

[Sean]

I'd love to.

[Neil]

And also we're super grateful we got a, a donation from Tony Robbins. Actually a match to, to, to build this studio which we're actually building as we speak, so the teens can start that's shooting their episodes. It's in our garage. But it's also like a place where we can have teens and then it also be virtual. But yeah, if there's an opportunity for them to hear from you and then also how you're doing it because it's cool. Instead of like telling them, oh, social media is bad or, or stay off your phones or whatever. Like, you know, they're misunderstood around that. We as parents didn't have that. So, so yes, of course, those, those better days of playing until the streetlights went off and not being on our phones. Yeah, yeah. But I mean that, that's, that's the world we grew up in.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

These kids also see these, these platforms and opportunities as ways to connect and we want to embrace that aspect and help them with that. That's, that's our, our biggest focus in the coming weeks is, is really getting their stories out there.

[Sean]

I love that. I think every middle school and high school should have a podcast studio. I know that's a hot take. But my favorite memories that I have are me and my dad on YouTube, our old videos on like a Blurry Logic Logitech webcam. It's me and him singing songs and just talking about life.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So to have those memories, like, it means a lot.

[Neil]

I'm so glad you shared that. And then of course for me growing up in the 80s and 90s, my favorite class was I, I forget the name of what it was, but it was like media. And so it was like a set like this with like a news anchor desk and, and we were shooting Stuff that of course is produced on vhs, but the kids want to be in it doing the acting. So. Man. So much good. Not. Not food for thought. Food for action.

[Sean]

Yeah. That was my. One of my favorite classes too. Media.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah. It's. It's like a podcast. Seems like a form of therapy. I tell people you really get a lot off your chest.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Feels great.

[Neil]

Thank you for acknowledging that. Sometimes I think selfishly, like for me personally, all of what we're doing. Yes. It's. It's the greater mission and it's also large part self preservation for me. Man.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

You know what I mean? I mean otherwise I'm sitting in bed thinking of all the things I could have done and what I would have done differently and having these conversations that I've been blessed to have and meet the people along this journey has been self preserving.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah. No, you've been through a lot. It's. I try not to live in the past, but when you deal with so much trauma, it's tough, right?

[Neil]

Yes.

[Sean]

You know, it's almost inevitable you're going to have those thoughts pop up and what if moments. Yeah.

[Neil]

And I think you're, you're, you're doing something and I'm borrowing the confidence from you and I think it's an important concept. I'd never learned of this concept called post traumatic growth. Are you familiar with it?

[Sean]

No. What is.

[Neil]

Well, so it's really building off of what you've said. So we've had these stories of trauma in our past and what I've also come to realize is even though I was blessed with little to no adversity for 49 and a half years, the world is faced with challenges and traumas every day. I think my story is unimaginable. Parents worst nightmare. I promise you there, there are stories that I've come to learn of that are. That'll take you to your knees worse. But so we've got trauma. Right. And then. So multiple things can happen. Two things can happen from trauma. One is we can move into post traumatic stress disorder. So we stay in the trauma and if we put ourselves into situation where, where we're. Where that, that is amplified. So empathy is important. But for, for example. Right. So you have post traumatic stress disorder that we're most familiar with. When soldiers come back from war and all that they've faced in, in my world, what post Traumatic stress disorder looks like is. Is suffering. So we could easily be in the corner suffering. This is every bit of a parent's worst nightmare. So initially we started to go to support groups and counseling, but mostly these support groups. So parents of the loss of a child or parents of loss of a child by suicide. And what was very interesting is, on the one hand, while we felt a deep connection to the people in this group, no one wants to be in this club, yet only the people in the club can truly understand what we're all going through. But what we found by and large was that people were staying in their pain and suffering, so they were sharing the trauma, reliving the trauma, and then dozens, if not hundreds of people commenting on it online, reinforcing that. So we stay in suffering, and it's understandable. But what post traumatic growth says is, now, wait a minute, all of that is true, but what are the possibilities and opportunities to grow, grow from it? So to take this pain and trauma and to transmute that pain, alchemize it into purpose. And this is something that I learned from Jenia that has really struck with me. Again, if the purpose is greater than the pain, you will take action. So post traumatic growth is making a decision that there's some reason that this trauma had for me. And if my heart is open and my eyes are open to discovering that purpose, if I can find that purpose, I will, I will be compelled into action. You don't even have to think or take action, but if you don't find the purpose, you're going to stay in suffering. When you do find the purpose, the opportunity for growth is extraordinary. So here's. Here's what I'll share with you without going too far, but I don't know how it shows up on the camera, but I'm someone who's who. Who loves to pull every aspect of fun, joy, life out of an experience. I am a positive mofo. I love life. I love experiences. I love interacting with other human beings in every possible way. So that's this, like, so awesome life is amazing. But until I lost Anthony, my experience of. Of pain, my baseline was here.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Neil]

I mean, my parents separated for a couple of years in high school. I lost my best friend to cancer when I was 34. I've had hard times, but believe you me, the sum total of my adversity of 49 and a half years doesn't total losing Anthony. So now my threshold for pain is all the way over here. But thank God, thank universe, my desire for this joy, pleasure, connection didn't go away.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

So what it's created is this breadth of possibility, of experience. I can connect with the deepest level of trauma. And pain that would take your breath away and have you in the fetal position. And through the experiences that I've had, opening my heart, connecting with humans in this other way, this spiritual way. So true is the opposite, the antithesis of trauma is this most profound, indescribable joy and connection that I never felt before this trauma. But to do it, you have to make a decision that says there is some purpose in this. And what that's created for me is not that I'm going to get over grief, that there's grief, has some period, is that all of this is true. I'm going to carry this inexplicable, unimaginable pain and trauma and have the capacity for the most unbelievable connection, love and growth possible. And a man, Dr. Richard Tedeschi, coined this phenomenon some 30 years ago, was so grateful to, to interview him about this. But post traumatic growth is a real thing. I'm living it and it's, it's a part of our mission because everything we're going to do to help these teams is going to have a huge impact. And some teens and families will be lost in this opportunity to grow and contribute from such trauma exists within all of us. And I want to help the world and especially men who have grown up in this space where you have to be strong, you have to appear in a certain way to let all that BS go and live in a most vulnerable, raw and real way that others can connect with so they can experience the profundity of this loss. I mean, like I said earlier, I would trade it all, all of it in a heartbeat to have Anthony back. But the level of depth in relationships, the connections that I'm having with people now, the, the, the extraordinary places it's taken my marriage to is unimaginable. So, so too is the difficulty in the marriage. But that, that's what I'm saying is like there's this huge, wildly rich life, but if we stay on this side of suffering, you know, it's a tragedy because I know with certainty when I see Anthony again, it's going to feel like a moment hasn't passed. So why would I net waste the next 30 to 35 years that I may have wallowing in that suffering when I can have so much impact and when that moment comes, be celebrating with him.

[Sean]

Wow, that is so deep. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, but that's, that resonates so much because post traumatic growth, I'm going to start using that. But so many of the most successful people I know have been through some deep trauma.

[Neil]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sean]

Even Tony.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know.

[Neil]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You look into his story, it's like, damn, I could have easily went the other way.

[Neil]

Absolutely right. And that's. It's that journey, that struggle to transformation. And some of us may be blessed to. To seek and find it. And other of us may be blessed to. To be hit so hard with us, we're knocked to the floor. But what are we going to do? How are we going to step up from that? What. What meaning are we going to place on it? That. That I'm a victim and that I'm going to suffer, which is understandable. But I don't think our loved ones want to discuss that when we arrive. Or are we going to look for something greater that may be there that could transform our lives and the rest of the time that we have here so we could celebrate with them and potentially impact so many others?

[Sean]

I love it. How could people watching this support you support the charity and come out? Do you have events?

[Neil]

Yeah. Yeah. So events is going to be a big part of what we're doing. The biggest thing that could really support us right now is, is the awareness. We are a 513C, so donations are tremendously helpful. That's on our website, endurantmovement.org but what's most helpful is, is playing this game. Someone implored us to. To get out and launch the Endurance Show. So we're on, you know, we're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, much like yours, we. We launched last Wednesday. The first two episodes are Endurance, our origin story. The next two drop today. But the, the point that I'm getting at is many of the things that you're saying to subscribe to our show, if the content resonates with you, to leave a review every other week is my wife and I interviewing experts like you are. And then starting in October, then every other week is the Teen Voices. So starting with a teen who lost her mom in this way and then her. Her dad a short time later.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Neil]

These teens are going to be doing this every other week. So Apple and Spotify reached out unsolicited that they want to feature us this month for Suicide Awareness Month. But since we're a new show and we don't have a lot of following, they're like, imploring us to get some followers. Yeah. So that's my long way of saying that that more than anything would be most helpful because the, the money will enable us to build a staff like we've started to do. But more importantly, awareness is the cure. And the more that we can get these stories out and impact and save lives, the rest will take care of itself.

[Sean]

Beautiful. We'll link it below and I'll see you in San Diego in a few weeks.

[Neil]

Thank you, man. That would mean a lot.

[Sean]

Yeah. Thanks for coming on.

[Neil]

I really appreciate you.

[Sean]

Thanks for your time. Yup, check them out, guys. Check out the charity and check out his podcast. I'll see you next time. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.