← Digital Social Hour
Digital Social Hour
New Simulation Theory Evidence Has Experts Shocked... | DSH #2022
00:53:23
What if reality is not as solid as we think? In this Digital Social Hour Episode, Sean Kelly sits down with Rizwan Virk at Conscious Life Expo to talk about simulation theory, AI, quantum physics, UFOs, spiritual traditions, the Mandela Effect, karma, free will, and whether life could operate more like a massive multiplayer video game. Rizwan explains why he believes the odds of us being in “base reality” may be extremely low, how AI-generated worlds are making simulation theory harder to dismiss, and why modern video games, virtual reality, and procedural generation may give us clues about how reality itself could work. The conversation covers prompt theory, NPCs, avatars, free will, past lives, near-death experiences, spiritual forgetfulness, ancient scriptures, quantum mechanics, delayed choice experiments, parallel timelines, UFOs, jinn, alien encounters, telepathy, autistic savants, karma, and the idea that everything we do may be recorded like a life review. Rizwan also b...
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- [00:00]
A
The chances that we are in base reality, meaning we're not in a simulation, are one in billions. Which means the chances we're in a simulation are billions to one. The NPC version, people can kind of freak out if they were just all NPCs. There are beings that are allowed to go back and change reality and change physical objects because they don't live in space time like the rest of us.
- [00:20]
B
Wow. Okay, guys, here at Conscious Life Expo with Rizwan. He just finished his panel, right?
- [00:33]
A
Yep.
- [00:34]
B
How'd it go?
- [00:34]
A
We did an AI panel. It was a lot of fun actually. Yeah.
- [00:37]
B
Were you all pro AI on the panel or how did it look?
- [00:39]
A
You know, I, I think everyone was pretty much using AI for something. Yeah, some people were using AI to try to channel, so it got a little weird. But overall, you know, we also talked about some of the challenges with AI. Yeah, you know, I talked about a column I wrote recently where, which is called AI Will Kill Us all and Other Myths because sometimes we think too much in science fiction terms when we're thinking about AI, but we got to think about more short to medium term things rather than Skynet.
- [01:09]
B
Yeah, well, we've been so conditioned, right, to think of AI don't like through movies and propaganda. But are you using AI to prove her in a simulation?
- [01:16]
A
Not necessarily to prove it, but to demonstrate how that could work. Because AI can now create not just realistic videos. So first of all, it can create super realistic videos. I don't know if you've ever heard of this thing called Prompt theory.
- [01:30]
B
No.
- [01:30]
A
So Prompt Theory is a new flavor of simulation theory that just kind of came out last year when Google introduced an AI engine that generated realistic videos and so people can find, you know, this video online. It was super viral last year and basically the prompt was the. That the AI characters would talk about how they're not prompts. And so you'd see these what look like actors, but it's AI generator saying we're not prompts. And you know, you'll have a woman that's a comedian saying, hey, if you're going to date and a guy is talking about the prompt theory, you know that's not going to end well. Or you know, you've got like a politician saying we are going to end the teaching of the prompt theory in our schools. We don't have time for that nonsense. And probably one of the more convincing ones is a guy, you know, in front of these mountains and he's like, look, are you telling me that all of this beautiful Grander is zeros and ones. I don't think so. And so the first time I showed that video at a conference last year, I think it was in June. People came up to me afterwards, was that really AI or was that. Were those real actors? And I told you it was AI. That was the whole point was someone put the prompt. So last year you could prompt realistic actors and videos. This year, Google just came out with Genie 3, which you can actually create immersible virtual worlds. So, like, I did a little prompt to say, I want to create, you know, a world where there's like castles on these islands and a wizard, you know, with a staff who's like, navigate. And then you navigate through those worlds and it looks amazing and you don't have to write a single line of code. And so the, the way that this relates to simulation theory is that I think AI can, can be used to generate a world that looks like an infinite world. Wow. Even if it isn't necessarily one.
- [03:11]
B
Yeah. Video games have come a long way from Sims.
- [03:14]
A
Yeah, they really have. So there was a video game in 2019, 2016, I think, called no Man's sky. And when it came out, it had 18 quintillion planets. Okay. Now, I was in the video game industry for many years, and we built games and there's no way, you know, any video game team can design that many planets. So they had to rely on code and, and patterns and procedural generation and now AI to create the world. So it's. See, it's seemingly infinite, even if it isn't. So there's two ways that AI, I think, intersects with the simulation theory. The first is this idea of being able to create virtual worlds. I've told a story before where the reason I went down this rabbit hole is. I had sold my last software company and I was playing a virtual reality ping pong. And I put on the VR headset. And of course it was big, thick headset with lots of wires.
- [04:05]
B
The Oculus?
- [04:06]
A
Yeah, it was like HTC Vive, back even before they were wireless Oculus. And I started to play this ping pong game and it was so realistic that my body forgot for a second or 30 seconds that I wasn't really playing a real game of table tennis. And I tried to put the paddle on the table and I tried to lean on the table just like this. Of course, there was no table. It was just me in an empty room, bunch of wires from the ceiling, and what we used to call a toaster on your head. So there was no mistaking. I was in VR. But the physics engine was so good that it convinced my body just for a moment about that. And I began to think, how long would it take us to create virtual worlds that were indistinguishable from physical worlds? Now, remember, this is before ChatGPT, this is before Generative AI. But I began to think through the stages of technology we would need to get to to build something like the Matrix. And then the question becomes, well, if we can build it someday, a civilization that's been around longer than us has already built something like this, probably.
- [05:02]
B
Wow.
- [05:03]
A
And we could be inside that simulation.
- [05:06]
B
Wow.
- [05:06]
A
If we cannot tell the difference. Right? So there was a guy named Nick Bostrom at Oxford who wrote a paper about this back in 2003. And he said, look, if a civilization ever builds one of these, they're going to build a million of them or a billion of them, because why not you just run another server? And so he said, there's only one physical world. There's a billion simulated worlds. And this was the logic that Elon Musk used. Actually back in 2016, same year that I was playing ping pong, he said the chances that we are in base reality, meaning we're not in a simulation, are one in billions, which means the chances we're in a simulation are billions to one. So that was what kind of pulled me in. And so I defined this theoretical point that I call the simulation point point. It's like a kind of technological singularity. Now when most people hear that term, they think super intelligent AI, they think Skynet is going to take over the world. But there are different types of technology singularities. There was a guy named Vernor Vinge. He was a sci fi writer and a computer science professor. And he kind of coined the term in this case. And then Ray Kurzweil talked about it with Transhumanism. But it really means when technology is growing exponentially and everything will be different. And so the simulation point is a kind of singularity where we can create virtual worlds that are indistinguishable from physical with AI characters that are indistinguishable from physical beings or beings controlled by avatars in the video game. And so that was kind of what got me down the road. And so AI plays a double role, AI characters or NPCs in the game. So NPC for those who don't play video games, probably your audience knows what it is, but it's a non player character, which is one of the AI characters in the game. And Then your character is called an avatar.
- [06:44]
B
Right.
- [06:44]
A
That term, by the way, comes from ancient Sanskrit. I mean, we're at the Conscious Life Expo today, so there's a lot of spiritual discussions. Most people don't know this, but an avatar avatara in Sanskrit is when a divine entity comes down into Earth and incarnates in a small human body.
- [06:59]
B
Wow.
- [06:59]
A
And so the guys at Lucasfilm were building one of the first online role playing games. This is back in the days of Commodore 64. You know, I'm old enough to remember
- [07:08]
B
I don't know that one.
- [07:09]
A
Yeah, the modem sound. So it wasn't a massively multiplayer online world.
- [07:13]
B
Got it. Got it.
- [07:13]
A
You could only have, like, five characters on the screen in one room. But it was one of the first. And they were looking for a term to call the guy on the screen that you're controlling. And they said it felt like they were taking themselves and squeezing into the phone lines and squeezing into this little character on the screen. So they borrowed the term, you know, from the spiritual traditions to call it avatar. And that stuck. So now all of our characters in video games are typically avatars, but it hints at a spiritual side. And so when I began to look at the various religions of the world, I realized they're all saying the same thing, that the physical world isn't real. And we can talk more about that if you want. And then I also looked at quantum physics, and I realized, oh, it's saying that the world isn't really physical either. It's mostly empty space, and it consists of. Of information.
- [08:00]
B
It's just light, right?
- [08:01]
A
It's just light. But there was a guy named John Wheeler, who's my favorite physicist of the 20th century. He was at Princeton with Albert Einstein. It was his student who came up with the multiverse idea. Right. And you've probably seen the superhero movie. You have the three Spider man memes kind of pointing at each other. Tom Holland, Andrew Garfield. And who's the other guy?
- [08:20]
B
Toby Maguire.
- [08:21]
A
Toby Maguire. And they said. Well, they came from a different part, the multiverse. So Wheeler came up with a phrase, and he said he was looking for this thing called matter. His entire career, he died in, like, I think, you know, late 1990s or early 2000s. So it wasn't that long ago, but he was there at the beginning of the quantum revolution. And so he was pretty old, but he said that he was looking for particles. Like, if we think of particles, we think of, like, hard objects that are stacked up next to each other, but in fact, it's mostly empty. So this table is mostly empty. So space, the atoms themselves are mostly empty space. Even the nucleus, turns out is mostly empty.
- [08:56]
B
Wow.
- [08:56]
A
And he goes at the bottom, the only thing he could find. If you think of like those Russian nested dolls.
- [09:01]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:02]
A
And the only thing he could find were a series of properties or answers to yes, no questions. So he said those are bits, like a bit is a zero or a one. They have two possible values. So he came up with this phrase it from bit. So if anything looks like an it, like this glass of water, this bottle of water, it's actually consist of bits of information. And so anyway, that's what led me to write, you know, the first edition of the Simulation hypothesis back in 2019. And it was the 20 year anniversary of the Matrix. So I released it on March 31, 2019. It was exactly on the day. And of course now it's been six years and AI has progressed. I was just, I was just projecting back then what I thought would happen. And so last year Penguin Random House asked me to write a new edition. And that's the edition that, that is out there now. Yeah.
- [09:46]
B
Who would have thought the Matrix would have so much truth in.
- [09:49]
A
Yeah, some people say it's more of a, you know, philosophy disguised as a movie or that it's more of a documentary.
- [09:55]
B
Thirty years ago they called it.
- [09:57]
A
Yeah. And you know, we did a screening of it in Boston last summer when I launched the new edition of the book at one of the theaters and I gave a little talk about the Matrix and its impact. And it's fun to see people's thinking about that know a little more seriously.
- [10:12]
B
Yeah. Wow. So there's a very good chance we are in a simulation then, based up all the stuff you just said?
- [10:16]
A
I think so. So I, I think the chances are are fairly high. And in 2019 I said it's at least 50%. Now I say it's closer to 70%. That's not a precise number though. That's more because we're getting closer and closer to the simulation point. If we can definitely get there, then it's very possible. Yeah, but also because of the quantum mechanics stuff, it just doesn't make any sense in a physical universe. Right. You've probably heard the observer effect where there's a probability wave and it collapses down. So reality is only solid once people are looking at it. So I spent years in the video game industry and the reason we can build a game like Fortnite or World of Warcraft, It's a full 3D world in there. But your computer or your phone, you don't have to render the whole thing. You only render what parts, the parts that your avatar can see. So the golden rule in quantum mechanics seems to be render only that which is observed. And the golden rule for compression and optimization in computer science is you render only that which is observed. Everything else is just information that lives out there. And that information gets rendered in a way that appears as if it's real.
- [11:27]
B
Yeah, that's fascinating. I just wonder how people would react if it was proven that we live in a simulation.
- [11:33]
A
Well, you're going to have different reactions. And this is when it's useful to talk about what I call the two different flavors of simulation theory. They're not mutually exclusive, but the NPC version where everybody is 100% AI, and then the RPG version where we are characters, our avatars inside the game. But just like Morpheus and Neo and Trinity, they existed outside of the Matrix and then they had their avatars inside the Matrix.
- [11:58]
B
Matrix.
- [11:59]
A
In the same way, in the role playing game version, the RPG version, we exist as players as well. And that's, I think, what has the link to the spiritual traditions who say that there's a soul and the soul inhabits the body. Like Rumi, you know, famous poet, he's a mystical Sufi poet, and he says that the soul puts on the body like we put on a pair of clothes or a set of garments. And the Bhagavad Gita says the same thing. It says the, the soul or the Atman puts on the body like a set of garments, and then it takes it off. Because in that tradition, you're playing the game multiple times, you're going back and forth. And so the NPC version, people can kind of freak out if they think we're just all NPCs.
- [12:42]
B
That's the whole free will debate.
- [12:44]
A
Yeah, exactly. And so how can you have free will in a system that's deterministic?
- [12:47]
B
Yeah, if everything is pre coded.
- [12:49]
A
Yeah, everything's pre coded. Now it turns out just because it's pre coded doesn't mean, you know, the outcome. So there's an idea called computational irreducibility. And what it says is even for like a cellular automata. Have you ever seen these? They're like squares and then they light up or they. There was one called the Game of Life, which is an early cellular automata. There's a guy named Stephen Wolfram who created one and basically coming complexity theory itself. Like if you've heard of chaos theory, so what Chaos Theory says is that even small changes in the initial conditions of a system can result in very divergent effects down the road. So like the butterfly effect? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the butterfly flaps its wings in Hong Kong and the New York Stock Exchange crashes. And so what it's saying is in a complex system, it's unpredictable what will happen. And even if the rules are deterministic, there's a, there was a Netflix show called the Three Body Problem a few years ago. I don't know if you saw.
- [13:51]
B
I didn't.
- [13:51]
A
It was about three body. Part of the Three body problem itself is one of these things where you have three different astronomical objects that are kind of circling each other and you don't know if they're going to get into a stable orbit or not. And there's no good way to predict it. So the only way to find out what's going to happen is to run the program. So even if there isn't free will, you still don't know what's going to happen. But now physicists like to think, well, what is free will? It's just randomness, that's what they say. I think most normal people would say, no, it's not randomness, it's I am deciding something and then I'm deciding to go to it. And in the RPG version, free will comes from outside the system. Your character, your player is controlling the avatar. So you're telling it what to do. Now the system limits your choices, perhaps. So you know you can't go every path because as a game designer we set it up so that different characters have different story arcs, different strengths and weaknesses, and different quests and achievements. But that, that is a way to account for free will because it's coming from the player, not from the code. But even if we didn't have free will, it still doesn't mean we know what's going to happen.
- [14:58]
B
That is interesting. Do you have one, you lean more towards the RPG version or the, the other version?
- [15:03]
A
Yeah, well, given that we're here at the Conscious Life Expo, I tend to lean more towards the spiritual version, the RPG version, that we're inside a video game. And because if you talk to people who've had near death experiences, for example, there are people who remember, have pre birth memories, like they remember having chosen their parents in a particular life. Well, in video games we do life selection or character selection at the beginning, right? You say, what's my race? I'm going to be an elf, I'm going to be a dwarf, a Human, dragon, whatever the case is. And then you choose your profession. I'm going to be a warrior, I'm going to be a cleric, a bard, thief. And then you choose a storyline. And so in the RPG version, it leaves it open where you have picked a set of things and a set of challenges, but you also don't know exactly what's going to happen because you still have to make choices along the way. And so I tend to lean a little more that way. But as a scholar, you know, I study all of the different aspects of simulation theory. Like I taught a class on this at Arizona State University.
- [16:06]
B
Wow.
- [16:06]
A
It was the first college level class just on the simulation hypothesis. And I called it science fiction, technology, philosophy and religion, that is.
- [16:14]
B
When was that?
- [16:15]
A
A year? It was for a couple of years. I think the last time I taught it there was like last year. Wow. And now I teach it online. So people go to my website every now and then and it's open to the public. I'll teach it like once a year online. Damn.
- [16:25]
B
That's crazy. Yeah. There are a lot of compelling cases of how we choose our own parents. We choose our, our life, right?
- [16:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So some people remember it, and then the spiritual traditions all talk about this as well. And incarnation in the spiritual traditions is often presented as a journey into forgetfulness. Okay. So you forget that you're the player. So getting back to my ping pong game, it's when you can completely forget who you were or what your plan was, and then you can enjoy the game. So the Greeks have Lethe, which is the river of forgetfulness, and you cross it when you incarnate. The Chinese have Mengpo, the goddess of forgetfulness. She brews the tea of forgetfulness. And in the Islamic traditions, they call a human insan, which means a prisoner. But a prisoner of what? It's a prisoner of another Arabic word called Nissan, which means forgetfulness. And so you have this in all of the different traditions. And I think that's a key part of how. What happens when we put on the headset. Now, it doesn't have to actually be like a headset the way we're thinking of it. I mean, the computer that would run the world would be way more advanced than anything we've thought of. It'd be more like a quantum computer. So we can think of it as a metaphor of putting on a headset, but we're really basically, basically going through this process of forgetfulness together.
- [17:46]
B
It seems by design, right, that we forget everything and then we got to relearn it?
- [17:49]
A
Yeah, we got to relearn it. In fact, I was on another podcast which is with Mayim Bialik from the Big Bang, and I was telling her about this, and she goes, yeah, we have that in the Jewish tradition, too. I said, oh, what's Kabbalah? Yeah, Kabbalah is the mister. But even in just the regular. Oh, really? And she said, we have an angel called Layla. And what happens is before you're born, you learn everything. And then Layla presses your top lips. There's a cleft there. And when she does that, you forget everything you've just learned and you're born, and now you got to relearn it. And so, again, that is a metaphor. In this case, this angel is like an NPC or a function. It doesn't mean there's one woman that goes around and touches everybody's. And in fact, what many of the religious traditions do is they will take these crazy spiritual ideas that you can't put into words, and they'll use a technology metaphor to try to describe something. Yeah, if you look at all the traditions, they have this, like the Buddha's wheel, the gates of St. Peter, right? You've got chariots, but mostly you have books. And writing is a very common one.
- [18:52]
B
So when people are born with their memories, do you think they are, in a way, hacking the simulation or what's going on with that?
- [18:59]
A
I think some people retain more of their memories. There are cases where, like, Ian Stevenson was a researcher at University of Virginia, and he found, you know, a number of children who remembered their previous existence, but they generally forgot it between ages 5 and 7. So they. They would, you know, one kid, you know, would tell his mommy, I want to go to my other home. And, like, what other home? And he said, you know, the one in Hollywood. And, you know, they just thought it was just being a kid. And then eventually they figured out the stuff he was describing. There was actually this one actor in Hollywood, because the kid said, I was in this movie. And they couldn't find any reference because he wasn't accredited actor. He just happened to be in the movie. And then at one point, they found the house that he described and the guy that he described.
- [19:43]
B
Wow.
- [19:44]
A
So I think some people have more levels of remembering, but then that's what people use DMT or they use other psychedelics or they use yogic techniques or breathing to get ourselves in an altered state. And I think that loosens our grip on reality. It's sort of like disidentifying from the. From our Avatars. And when you're. You're pulled out, you can kind of look around.
- [20:09]
B
Yeah.
- [20:10]
A
And you can see more information, and you can do things which might seem miraculous.
- [20:14]
B
Right. Yeah. I've also heard that they've maybe have more past lives, more experience. I've heard that theory as well.
- [20:19]
A
That's true. Right. Because if they've come through, I mean, there's another aspect to, like, avatars or divine entities that are. That are born or, you know, within the Buddhist traditions, they have a different term like a toku. It's like an advanced spirit who decides to come back. Right. Without forgetting. So they remember everything and, you know, they're able to control things and materialize things. There's lots of stories of yogis, for example, example, that do you know, teleportation? They appear in multiple places at once. There's a book called Autobiography of a Yogi. I don't know if you've ever read it.
- [20:53]
B
Heard of it.
- [20:54]
A
Yeah. It was by a guy named Swami Yogananda. So he came over a hundred years ago, 1920. He came from India to Boston and ended up right here in la. And he was one of the first swamis that actually lived in, you know, here in the US and he was trying to explain ancient spiritual concepts like Maya. So you've probably heard that term. It generally translates to illusion, but it's more like a kind of a carefully crafted illusion. It's one where, like, if you go to magic show, you know, the guy's not sawing that lady in half, but you kind of suspend your disbelief. And so he needed to come up with a new way to describe that to Americans, because most Americans in a karma in 1920, like, they wouldn't know those terms. And so he came up with a technology metaphor because we're a technological civilization. And he said, look, it's like a film which was new technology. The latest technology at the time was films. And he said, we were projecting onto the screen, and the characters in the movie might be suffering, but the actors don't die. And he would tell his students to look away from the screen and look at the light that's projecting now. A Couple years ago, HarperCollins, India came to me and asked me to write a book for the 75th anniversary of autobiography, Yogi, which was like Steve Jobs favorite book. And the Beatles used to hand it out all, like, the boomers and the hippie generation, they used to, like, hand out this book all the time. And in fact, I met a guy, he says, yeah, I was in Hayden Ashbury. Somebody gave me a copy of this book. I read it, I gave it to somebody else. So they really did that. But they wanted me to write about some of those lessons. And I said, are you sure? You know, I write about technology and I like to reference people like Yoga Panda.
- [22:28]
B
Yeah. Big ask.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah, it's a big ass. Like, why do you want me to write it? You know, I'm not technically even a Hindu. They wanted me to write it for Indian people, like, not even for the US and they said, no, we want you to write about it because you're doing kind of what Yogananda did. And I thought about it and I thought, yeah, if he was alive today, he would say, it's like a film. Where are the actors? We're also sitting in the audience watching the film. We have a script. Each of us does, but we can change the script. We can decide which way to go. And what does that sound like? It sounds like a massively multiplayer online role playing games. I think you would say we're in a video game type of role reality.
- [23:00]
B
Yeah. Some of those yogis lived a long time.
- [23:03]
A
Yeah. So, you know, he tells stories of a guy named Babaji who's already at least 3, 400 or 500 years old.
- [23:09]
B
Wow.
- [23:09]
A
Up in the mountains. Now, you can debate whether that's true or not, but some of the stories you can take literally. And some of the stories, I think, are meant to convey lessons to us.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah.
- [23:19]
A
About how things work in the physical world.
- [23:21]
B
Well, even in the Bible, they lived hundreds of years too.
- [23:23]
A
Yeah. They had like 900 years. Right. Some of the. When you look at their initial set of people, people through Noah, like they all lived.
- [23:29]
B
Yeah.
- [23:30]
A
I think.
- [23:30]
B
I don't know if they were tracking time the same way, but.
- [23:33]
A
Yeah, it's a good question. And we can't always take the scripture literally, but if so, in the modern world, you know, I'm in academia. And so in academia we say, well, let's dismiss all that stuff. No, that stuff is real. And then. Or you can be kind of a fundamentalist believer and say everything is exactly the way that it was in, you know, that was exactly that many days.
- [23:51]
B
Right, right.
- [23:51]
A
God created the world in six days and all of these things. Right. But in fact, there's something in the middle which says essentially they might be saying something that's true. But they had to use the terminology, the language, the technology and metaphors that people would understand at that point in time. And so if you look at Genesis, Genesis is talking about God created the world, what does he do? Let there be light. And then he goes through and creates the water, and then the land, and then the vegetation, and then he creates animals, and then finally he creates people. Now, scientists would dismiss that even a few years ago, but today we can do that. The method that God uses in the Bible is speaking. He's basically prompting the creation of a world. Right. And so when I was a kid, I used to watch Star Trek the Next Generation, and they had the holodeck, and they would program it to anything. You could say, I want it to be like Paris in 1890, know, with these nice lanterns and a bar with a woman in a red dress. And they were programming it, but they weren't doing a program. They were just talking to it. And I remember thinking as a kid, well, how are. That's not programming? Well, it turns out it is today. Most programs are going to be written with AI and prompting, but you can basically prompt and create a whole world. And so that's why I say AI may have played a role in the creation of our world itself, because it can maintain this seemingly infinite universe.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah. So maybe the ancient civilizations had some sort of AI. Who knows?
- [25:16]
A
Yeah, either or they were aware of it. I mean, certainly, if you look at, like, the ancient aliens.
- [25:20]
B
Yeah.
- [25:22]
A
Topics when. If. If they are extraterrestrial. I'm not convinced that they are, but, yeah, there's a lot of discussion on that. Right. Trump came out with his.
- [25:29]
B
The UFO files.
- [25:30]
A
UFO files. And I used to write about this with, like, NBC News and, you know, some of these other online sites. And I would say, you know, there could be something else other than aliens. No, no, no.
- [25:42]
B
Just.
- [25:42]
A
Just focus on whether it's aliens or if it's nothing at all. It's just our tech, basically. I'm like, no, there's other possibilities. They could be projecting from outside the simulation. They could be time travelers. They could be. You know, people don't understand that. So, yeah, we just want to focus in on this. So. But. But if they are extraterrestrials, it would make sense that many of them are actually AI because that's what we're going to send out first. If to leave the solar system, we'll probably send out intelligent AI that is able to scout out what's happening there. Like, if you ever watch the old Star wars movies like Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader, they sent out all these probes to all these different solar systems, and then the probes found the rebels on that ice planet called Hoth, and then they Told them, and then they decided to take the flight there. It could be something like that where the. The scouting chips are AI.
- [26:34]
B
I could see that. It's crazy how much prediction Star Trek and Star wars have made about the future.
- [26:39]
A
It's true.
- [26:40]
B
That makes me believe in time travel.
- [26:42]
A
Yeah. It's very possible that somehow they were tapping into that.
- [26:45]
B
Yeah.
- [26:45]
A
Whether it was time travel and time travel. I wrote another book on simulation called the Simulated Multiverse, and it got into this idea that there might be multiple timelines that are running at once. And I got into it because my nephews were watching the Flash on the CW and they're, like, telling me about, you know, the Flash 2 is coming from this other part of the multiverse, and he's coming back in time, Reverse Flash is coming back in time and all this stuff. And I looked into it, and I realized there is a real weirdness in quantum mechanics that allows for the past to not be as fixed, really, as we think it is.
- [27:21]
B
Whoa. So you could change the past is what you're saying.
- [27:24]
A
Well, you can select the past from multiple possibilities.
- [27:27]
B
Wow.
- [27:28]
A
So, like, if you've ever played Minecraft or farmville or any of these games which have, like, crops, right?
- [27:33]
B
Yep.
- [27:33]
A
So you're logged in, you plant the seeds. What do you do? You go away, you come back the next day, and what happens? The crops are grown, Right. Possibly. Depends how long you.
- [27:41]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:42]
A
But your computer is not sitting there every nanosecond saying, okay, the crop is a little bit bigger. It's a little bit bigger. What happens is when you log in, it basically generates the past. It says, this is what happened in the past 24 hours. Maybe there's a 10% chance that locusts came. There's a 20% chance that, you know, your neighbor stole your crops, or there's some animals that caused you problems. And how long has it been? It's been 24 hours, so let's make the crops this big. So you're essentially filling in the past. And turns out there's a. So back to John Wheeler, my favorite physicist of the 20th century. He proposed an experiment called the delayed choice experiment. And basically what the delayed choice experiment is saying is that the past may not be as fixed as we think it is. So just like earlier we said, you know, the reality comes into being when you observe it, potentially the past does too. So he described he couldn't do the experiment back then, but now people have started to do it. But he described the cosmic delayed choice experiment. So what if there's A quasar a billion light years away. And the light is coming to us. And we have telescopes here and we can measure it. And it's going to take how long? Like a billion years. Right, because a billion light years away. Yeah. And suppose there's something in the middle, like a black hole or a galaxy. There's a black hole, and the light has to go to the left or to the right of the black hole. And when we get here, the telescopes can measure which way it went. This is kind of like a cosmic version of the double slits. Right. There's two ways to go. Now, if it's right in the middle, then that decision of whether to go left or right would have had to have been made half a billion years ago, 500 million years ago. So we're talking the deep past, before humans. We're talking dinosaurs, maybe. But what the delayed choice experiment is showing us, it's not until the measurement is done today on the telescopes that the decision of whether to go left or right or to slit one or slit two is made.
- [29:36]
B
Wow. So that means time isn't linear.
- [29:38]
A
Time isn't linear. And we may be across multiple timelines. And I started to think about this because I interviewed the wife of science fiction writer Philip K. Dick. And Philip K. Dick, for those who don't know, he wrote the books behind Blade Runner, Minority Report, Total Recall and the man in the High Castle, which is a recent Amazon series. And he did a famous speech in 1977. So. And we're talking like the dawn of the computer age. And basically he said we are living in a computer programmed reality, and the only clue we have to it is when some variable has changed, some alteration occurs in our reality. We would have the sense of reliving the same events of deja vu, because reality is basically being changed. And so his wife encouraged me to look at that speech and I started to look at it. And basically what he's saying is it's possible that we are on one timeline. And he said he remembered a timeline where Germany and Japan won World War II. And that was what his book, the man in the High Castle, for those who haven't seen the series, Germany basically takes over the east side of the US And Japan takes over the west side. And so it becomes kind of like a police state. And so he came to believe that this was like a real timeline that happened. And he got all these memories of it eventually. Initially he just said fragmentary memory memories. And so that got me to investigate whether there is an out in quantum Mechanics for something like this. So I looked around and Schrodinger, who's kind of one of the founders of quantum mechanics, he talked about the famous Schrodinger's cat, which I'm sure people have heard of by now. But there was an obscure speech of his, I think it was in Caltech or something in 1940, and he said that when we collapse the probability wave, or we observe it, we are in effect choosing from one of multiple simultaneous histories. And that doesn't make sense in a linear time. But when you have a simulation, you can run multiple versions of it. In fact, you would. I mean, why else would you run simulations if you didn't want to see what would happen? Like the weather. If you want to simulate the weather, you'd say, you run it 100 times and say, okay, this is the likely outcome, but this is the best outcome we want, want. And so there's a possibility that our simulation is being run multiple times. And that basically results in the multiverse, like superheroes, because each timeline becomes like its own universe, if you will. And the problem with that theory, the multiverse theory, is that it's creating a new universe all the time. Not every second, every nanosecond or picosecond or very small. And so it's not parsimonious, it's just creating too many physical universes. But it turns out if it's simulated, then it is possible, because you don't have to do all of them. You just do the ones that make sense to you and you run them to a certain period of time.
- [32:28]
B
Interesting.
- [32:29]
A
You can prune the tree.
- [32:31]
B
It's like Dr. Strange in the Avengers.
- [32:33]
A
Yes, that's right. Was that movie.
- [32:36]
B
It was the Avengers with. Might have been the second one or something.
- [32:38]
A
But yeah, the Avengers. But he also had that movie. Film was called Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
- [32:43]
B
Oh, that one too.
- [32:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, but that. It's basically the same idea, except in a simulated universe it would make more sense because, for example, there's something called the anthropic principle, which basically says that the universe is fine tuned for life. And so there's like 12 to 15 constants, like the gravitational constant. There's a bunch of other physics ones, people can look them up, but if they were off by like 1%, then what would happen is that the planets would fly apart, the galaxies would fly apart, basically the universe would not be able to have life. And there's a whole bunch of other ones like that. And so they're like the universe is Fine tuned. We don't know why. It's probably not random. If it ended up.
- [33:26]
B
It's almost too perfectly coded.
- [33:27]
A
Yeah, it's too perfectly coded for life. Now one idea is if you have a multiverse, this is one way they get around. So it's either it's designed by someone, or you can say you have a multiverse and there's infinite numbers and then we're in one of the ones where you can have life. But again, that doesn't always make sense. Physicists love infinity. Computer scientists, we don't, because we know we only have limited resources. You know, we compress everything. We try to send information over the Internet. But basically you could discard all of the possibilities that life does not evolve in very quickly. You wouldn't need to run them infinitely an infinite number of times. And you can conserve computing power. And now we are one of the timelines that has been allowed to run forward. But who knows if this is, you know, if this timeline will continue or at some point things may, you know, get, get.
- [34:14]
B
Well, if this one ends, wouldn't we just move to another one?
- [34:17]
A
Yeah, possibly. Yeah. Well, some people remember. So what Philip K. Dick said was he remembered an alternate present and an alternate past. He said we would need to find people who remember a different alternate history. Now that was tough to do back in the day, 1970, 70s.
- [34:31]
B
Right.
- [34:32]
A
But now with the Internet, there's a lot of people. A lot of people. So there's something called the Mandela effect, right. Where people remember slightly different things. Now when I first heard about it, you know, I was coming from a science technology background. Yeah, that's just bad memory. And then somebody said, well, you know, if you were in a, if you were in a simulation and you reran it more than once, get it back to the butterfly effect, you would get slightly different versions. You may have very different versions. And then the more I looked into it, the more I realized, okay, many of these are small little one word changes, but some of them are meaningful changes, like the Bernstein bears. The Bernstein bears. So I gave a talk here at the College of Life Expo. I said, okay, how many of you remember it being Bernstein and not stain, which is what it is today? A bunch of hands shot up and I said, is anybody here Jewish? And several of them were. And they're like, yeah, I remember talking to my parents about, are these bears Jewish? Because it's spelled like a Bernstein.
- [35:22]
B
Right.
- [35:23]
A
And so they were closer to it. They might remember it better than somebody who's non Jewish. And turns out There's a whole series of these things, actually, you know, where the. The person who came up with the name the Mandela Effect, where she first started thinking about it, she's a blogger named Fiona Broom, and she was at DragonCon, which is like a Comic Con conference in Atlanta, and she was in a Star Trek panel with, like, actor. And we're talking the original Star Trek from the 60s. And this was in, like, 2008 or something. So they're all pretty old, but they're all sitting there. And if you know any Trekkers, they kind of know their stuff, right. They know their episodes.
- [35:54]
B
Right.
- [35:55]
A
And people in the audience were like, do you remember that episode? Or, you know, Captain Kirk did this, and, you know, Mr. Spock did that and Dr. McCoy did that. And the actors were like, no, we never had such an episode. And the Trekkers were like, yes, we did. We've all seen it. And so she began to wonder, okay, you know, is it possible that there is more? You know, that some of this could be real, that people are remembering a. A subset of people are remembering a different past. And so that's where the effect came from originally. And then she looked around and found that many people remembered Mandela dying in prison in the 80s. And then later, well, in our timeline, later, he got out of prison and he became president of South Africa, and it went on, and he won the Nobel Peace Prize. And again, some people say, well, you're just missing remembering this other guy, Stephen Bucho, who was another African leader. And they're like, no, we remember specifics. His wife, Winnie Mandela's wife. Winnie was speaking at the funeral. There was one blotter who was at npr, who was a journalism student. She flew to South Africa to, like, interview Nelson Mandela, and they said, he's too sick. So she flew back to the US and then she remembered him dying. Now, if you just flew there to see him, you're not going to mistake his dying for somebody else's dying.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
A
And then the worst or the most interesting are the physical ones in the Bible verses, because people take the scripture pretty seriously.
- [37:19]
B
Very seriously.
- [37:20]
A
Yeah. There are whole sites dedicated, by the way, to Bible verses that have changed. If you've ever heard of, like, the. The phrase or the verse, the lion will lie with a lamb from Isaiah. Turns out there's no such verse. It's a wolf will lie with the lamb. And yet people have, like, calendars on their walls that show a picture of a lion and lamb. And so, you know, how does this actually happen? So I began to look around and say, well, are there other. So first, again, I thought it was just a translation from Latin to English. Maybe the other guy translated to German to French.
- [37:51]
B
You approached it logically at first.
- [37:53]
A
Yeah, at first. But then people are like, no, no. I have my exact same King James Bible from when I was a kid. And I remember that phrase being there, and it's not there now. So it was the same physical object. So I began to wonder, are there other scriptures and other religions that. That have changed? And so I looked at the Quran in the Middle East. They memorized, like, word for word. They memorized the whole thing. In fact, they even have a little designation. It's not quite a priest, but like a scholar who knows every single word. And so I began to wonder if there were any changes made to it. And I found this one Sufi imam who was saying, there's a. There was a good reason to memorize it back in the day when not everybody could read. You didn't have books. But what's the reason we still do it today? And he said, there's an esoteric reason is that there are beings that are allowed to go back and change reality and change physical objects because they don't live in space time like the rest of us.
- [38:48]
B
Wow.
- [38:49]
A
But they are not allowed to change your memory. And so the esoteric reason for memorizing the scripture word for word is so that if somebody mucks with the physical object, you will still have know the scripture.
- [39:01]
B
Fascinating.
- [39:01]
A
And those beings are called the Jin.
- [39:04]
B
Okay.
- [39:04]
A
And we know that because of, you know, Aladdin and the genie. Right? Yeah, that. That's, you know, kind of a western interpretation.
- [39:11]
B
So Jin can. Can kind of morph through time.
- [39:13]
A
Yeah, they can morph through space and through time. Right. There's stories in the Bible and the Quran about Solomon controlling, you know, these beings. And how did he build the temple? He commanded these jinn to just take these giant stones because they're magical beings, kind of like the genie.
- [39:27]
B
Right.
- [39:28]
A
The three wishes thing was kind of made up later, but it's. It's. It's not actually in the original Aladdin story.
- [39:33]
B
No wishes.
- [39:34]
A
Yeah, no, you could. If you have a gin, you could.
- [39:37]
B
Oh, gin are not fun to deal with. I have a weird, weird story about it.
- [39:40]
A
Oh, really?
- [39:40]
B
Don't tell me. We had to trap one at my house.
- [39:43]
A
Really?
- [39:43]
B
Yeah. There was one in my backyard where by. We trapped it in a statue in the backyard.
- [39:47]
A
Yeah. But were you in the U.S. yeah, in.
- [39:49]
B
In Vegas.
- [39:50]
A
In Vegas. We trapped it in.
- [39:52]
B
Well, my wife did, but really?
- [39:53]
A
Yeah. It's interesting. There are stories like that that come out of jinn, and there's sort of. When I was a kid, I grew up. I was born in Pakistan, but I grew up in Michigan. You hear stories all the time, like, don't pee on the tree, because there might be a gin there that can't see. And they use it to kind of scare you. But turns out they're like real stories where people became possessed after doing stuff like that. So, like most mythology, there's some element of truth in that. And I know scholars of religion who've gone to Cairo and they've seeing people that have been possessed. And there's the whole exorcism thing in the. You know, the Catholic traditions as well. So I don't think we can discount these other types of beings being. In fact, there's some school. Religious schools in, like, the uk.
- [40:34]
B
Mystery schools, right?
- [40:35]
A
Yeah, mystery schools, but, like, Islamic schools. Talking about the gym. And they. They have one room that's dedicated for the gin that want to learn.
- [40:43]
B
Really?
- [40:43]
A
Like, what do they do in that room? Leave it empty. And I was like, really? I mean, I haven't seen one of these, but I've heard about them.
- [40:49]
B
Wow.
- [40:49]
A
Because it was a tradition from back in the day when they were first. Because, you know, people thought the jinn were real. And there's an overlap between the djinn stories and the abduction stories, too, by the way.
- [40:58]
B
Really?
- [40:59]
A
Yeah. So I don't know if you know who Whitley Strieber is.
- [41:01]
B
No.
- [41:02]
A
He wrote a book called Communion, which had kind of like the gray alien with the big eyes. Let's Most people know about that image that kind of made it really famous. And, you know, he had a. Various abduction stories. So he was telling me a story recently that would sound odd to any person who's not really looking into this. And he goes, there was a young man who met this woman, and she got pregnant. And this girlfriend, she called him over and she said, I got to tell you something. He goes, why? Because he thought maybe they're going to get married now. They're going to have a kid. And she goes, I'm not really human. I'm a gray alien. Okay. And then in front of his eyes, she turns no way into a gray alien. And then she turns back and she says, I'm going to take the baby. It wasn't a baby yet. She was pregnant. Back into, you know, the world of the gray aliens. Now, some people would say, that's just a bad breakup. She was looking for an Excuse, but when I was looking at the scholarly literature around the stories of the jinn in the medieval times, there are stories that are almost identical, right. A man would meet a Jin woman, he would get married, they would actually have kids. And then one day she would say, I'm taking the kids back into the garden Gin realm. And, you know, and then they just literally disappear at some point and nobody can find them again.
- [42:14]
B
I mean, I've heard the Grays are known to cross breed with humans, so it doesn't really surprise me.
- [42:18]
A
Yeah, like, that's. I mean, my first UFO conference I went to was like, kind of 15 years ago now, and there were lots of stories about hybrids.
- [42:26]
B
Yeah.
- [42:26]
A
There was one person, a friend of mine, she would walk around. I won't name her, but she would walk around and people would just come up to her. Are you a hybrid? I thought, that's really weird. Okay. And it would happen at, like, every conference without her, like, announcing herself. She wasn't like, a public figure.
- [42:41]
B
Wow, that's wild. That's crazy craze, man.
- [42:45]
A
But, but coming back to the. How did she change into the gray avatar? The gray, you know, alien? Well, it turns out in. In a virtual world, you can do that. You can switch your avatar and if you're projecting from outside the physical world into a virtual world. And there are stories of UFO sightings where one person can see the UFO and the person standing next to, either they see something completely different or they don't see anything at all.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah. I always wondered why. Because, like, Greer will summon them, or Bledsoe will summon a UFO and there'll be people with them, and some people can't see it.
- [43:15]
A
Some people will see and some people can't. Now, let's assume that our understanding of reality is wrong. Which, if we were in a video game, you would be rendering the scene on your computer and I would be rendering it on my computer.
- [43:26]
B
Right.
- [43:27]
A
And let's suppose we were both sitting in, you know, the field. And let's suppose you're level 30 because you been playing this game a lot longer than I am. I'm level two. And you would say, hey, look at this dragon. It's in my favorite color. And maybe my level 2 character doesn't have the seem visible dragon spell. And so on my computer, it's literally not there.
- [43:45]
B
Right.
- [43:46]
A
And so if we are all rendering a version of reality, and we do this in video games, by the way, from the server, we send down information to each client. This is how you get, like, synchronization of who shot first and all this stuff. And that's actually one of the hardest problems in video game design is to simultaneously figure out what happened first because you're dealing with different computers with different clocks. But we'll send different information down and based on that information, they will render things differently. And so with UFOs that are, you know, non physical, it's very possible that they're, they seem to be popping in and out of our reality, right?
- [44:21]
B
Yeah, they're in and out.
- [44:22]
A
Yeah, there are many stories like that. Now, how do you travel from one planet to another in a video game? You don't like, sit there and just wait till you get there. You portal, right? You just zap out you dres in one location and you go to another XYZ location and you res there. And so basically it provides a framework for things that can't be explained in other ways. And that's why I like simulation theory, because it can make the unexplainable become much more of like.
- [44:50]
B
Right. Because you can't explain teleportation with science.
- [44:52]
A
You can't. Right. And in fact, it should not be possible. You can't explain precognition. It should not be possible. Yeah, you've probably heard of the telepathy tapes and Diane Hennessy Powell is the researcher who was working with these autistic kids who were telepathic with their parents. And so she actually called me a few years before the telepathic tapes came out. And she said, I'm working with these autistic savants and they have all these abilities. And the only good explanation I can come up for is there's some kind of an information based reality and they're just looking it up in the database. And so, you know, we held a whole conference on simulation theory and autistic savants. And then, you know, more recently, there was another one of the kids, her name is Lidu. She's featured in Her Mother Dahlia does Mind side. She's here too. I think they just, they did some demonstrations and we were at a conference together and Dalia said, hey, Libby wants to tell you something. So what does she want to tell me? Because, you know, she's autistic, feel comfortable with a lot of people. And she goes, well, she says that she's in like a video game and when she communicates telepathically with her friends, it's like she's able to see them and help them. Like just in a video game you're able to see the scene. And so it's almost like this is my theory now is that if you think of, like, Ready Player One, if you've ever seen it, they not just have a helmet, they have, like a full body suit. And when you're in the full body suit, you can control everything about your avatar, like, individual fingers. Now, many of these autistic kids, they're telepathic, but they don't have fine motor skills. So it's almost like they're half in of the suit and half out of the suit, and they're trying to use a mouse to control their body while the rest of us are like, fully embodied. Like, we can do every little tiny thing. We can write all of that things, but because they're half out of the virtual reality suit, they can look around and see what's happening. They can go to other parts of. There's something called. So video game designers have something called a virtual camera, which tells you the X, Y, Z location within the game, and it also tells you what angle to take so they can spy in on their friends and see what they're doing. She's like, yeah, my friends can help me when I'm here, and I can help them because we can all kind of see each other.
- [46:59]
B
So is that astral travel or what is that?
- [47:01]
A
No, that's more like. It could be like astral travel, but in this case it's more like just viewing it while you're sitting here. So it's like disconnecting. Normally, we're locked into a first person point of view.
- [47:10]
B
Yeah, right.
- [47:10]
A
But in video games, we don't always use a first point of view. There's third person, third person looking down at your avatar. There's God view. There's different views. And so theoretically, this is more of a possible explanation is they're able to change the virtual camera to look at a different part of the game.
- [47:27]
B
Wow.
- [47:28]
A
Have you ever played CS Go or any first person?
- [47:30]
B
Yeah, I love shooters.
- [47:31]
A
Okay. So a few years ago, actually, back in 2016, same year I was playing the virtual reality, I was working with a startup, and they could take a session of csgo, which you can record and you can replay, in fact, on YouTube. Yes. Podcasts are obviously pretty big, but video game recordings are, like, some of the most fun.
- [47:50]
B
Yeah, they're huge. Streamers.
- [47:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, streamers. And even just replays. Like, when my nephew was like three years old, he said to his father, my brother, he's like, hey, I want to watch Star Wars. And my brother was like, oh, you want to watch Star the movie. He's like, no, I want to watch the man and the woman play the Star wars game. Right. But so we took a session of CS Go and we had you put on a headset. Because CS Go, you play on a flat screen, you put on a virtual reality headset. And we could go anywhere in the virtual world. So we would put you so you could literally see what it was like to shoot yourself.
- [48:18]
B
Wow.
- [48:19]
A
Right. And so you could replay it. And this really got me thinking about how do some of these paranormal abilities work? People who've had near death experiences, they report something called a life review where they say that they had to review every single moment of their life, but they had to do it from the other person's perspective.
- [48:37]
B
Holy crap.
- [48:38]
A
I know, it's crazy, right? There's a guy here who's speaking, Daniel Brinkley. Wrote a book by, called Saved by the Light. And he was struck by lightning back in the 70s and he said he had a holographic panoramic life review. And he was in the military. So he was an assassin. Literally killed people.
- [48:53]
B
I just met him. I did not know he was an assassin.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah, if you read his book. I mean, he's a good friend of mine now, so we'll talk about that. But basically he said that he had to see what it was like to, you know, for Danny and to shoot this other guy, but he was in the body of the other guy. And then this is what's interesting, he had to experience what it was like for the ripple effects on that guy's wife and kids. And so now as a scientist and engineer, I say, okay, let's suppose that's true. How would that work? So for that to be true, you would have to actually record everything, Right?
- [49:24]
B
Right.
- [49:24]
A
And then you would use something like a VR replay. Now, of course, our VR replays don't, you know, we can't feel things. We don't have emotions yet, but we can see visually. We can replay from any X, Y, Z, T where the T is for time. So we can go back to any point in time in a video game session and we can replay it from that. And then turns out the ancient scriptures all have this idea. There's the book of life in the Bible and in the Quran there's something called the scroll of deeds. Deeds, and they're supposed to be two angels. You've probably seen like the cartoons of the devil and the angel on your. So that comes from the Middle East. But in this case there are two angels. One writes down your good deeds and one writes down your bad deeds and then when you die, Judgment day is actually you reading your book. That's what they said. Look at what you have done. Look at the effects of what you have done. Now again, I don't think that means that there's a physical book and an angel, two angels with feather pens writing in Arabic or English or German, what you're doing that day. Right. It's a metaphor. It's a technology metaphor. Books are technology. It's a metaphor to say that this is being recorded and it will be replayed and you will have to deal with whatever you've done. So I think that gives us a better sense of the purpose of the game of life. Because if you know, like at the end of a football game or like a streamer might replay a session or competitive esports team. Yeah, what did I do right? What did I do wrong? Right. All of those things. So I don't think we're in CS Go or Grand Theft Auto. I think the way we measure our progress is how we treated other people and whether we accomplished the quests, some of which are very high, difficult and challenges in our life.
- [51:01]
B
So that would prove karma in a certain way then.
- [51:03]
A
Yeah, it would show you that karma is basically a database where you know as you do things. Because in the west karma is often think of thought of as you killed somebody, they kill you. But it's more than that, it's about your thoughts and the reactions that they had to you and those thoughts go in a database and then you have to experience what they experience. And so I say it's in a database and that karma becomes our quests and our achievements. Maybe multiplayer quests with certain individuals. Kind of like a raid. If you say you're going to do Tuesday night, we're all going to go on a raid together. Bring your character to this location and maybe we do that before we jump into this, the video game of life. And we plan with certain people. You know, we're going to meet you in Boston or in la and some people who've been hypnotized and remember their pre birth memories actually say there's a computer with a screen that shows these are the things I'm going to do. But if I choose not to move to Boston, if I move to Los Angeles, then there's this other timeline. So I think it provides a framework and a way to think about, you know, the physical universe and the challenges
- [52:05]
B
that we crazy perspective shift for. I think a lot of people knowing everything is recorded.
- [52:10]
A
Yeah. Because then you're going to think differently in how you treat people. But also if there are things that you're drawn back to again and again, like being a podcaster or being a writer, in my case, you know, what is it that draws you and not your siblings to do xyz? Well, maybe it's part of your life selection, right? And the tasks that you chose and the quest that you chose. And maybe the people who are having a really difficult time, maybe they're the advanced players, right? The guys who have it really easy, maybe they're just going through this the first time or second time. You know, like when. When actors win Oscars, it's usually for a character that has had a lot of suffering and it's a shift in perspective.
- [52:46]
B
Yeah, that's true. Well, vers one, this was fun. Really good episode, man. How could people watching this support you?
- [52:51]
A
Yeah, definitely. So they can get my book, the Simulation Hypothesis, pretty much anywhere. Barnes and Nobles, local stores. Then go to my website, Zen Entrepreneur. Com, which is named after my first book, I review, Entrepreneurship. They can download free chapters and then they can follow me on X Live. Stanford, like the rivers here or on inst.
- [53:09]
B
Awesome, like the city. Cool. Check them out, guys. We'll include all the links below. See you next time. Thanks for watching to the end, guys. Please comment below your thoughts on the episode if you agree. If you disagree, I'd love to hear it. I read every single comment. Means a lot to me. Thank you so much.