← Digital Social Hour
Digital Social Hour
North Korean Survivor Reveals Disturbing Horror Stories | Cheol Ryu | DSH #1869
00:58:08
He escaped North Korea twice — and survived things most people can’t even imagine. In this Digital Social Hour episode, Sean Kelly sits down with Cheol Ryu from Charles North Korea to talk about growing up under the North Korean regime, losing his mother to starvation, surviving prison labor, escaping across the border, and eventually building a new life in America. Cheol Ryu shares what life is really like inside North Korea — from public executions and total surveillance to food shortages, propaganda, prison camps, and the risks of trying to escape. He also explains how he made it to the U.S., why he continues speaking out, and what people still don’t understand about North Korea today. Chapters 00:00 Secret phone surveillance and a near-death escape 00:29 Meet Charles, who escaped North Korea twice 01:17 Life inside North Korea and brutal punishment 02:42 Losing his mother to starvation 03:35 His first escape to China 07:54 Arrest, prison, and forced labor 11:29 Surviving on ...
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- [00:02]
Sean
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Charles
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- [01:32]
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Charles
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Charles
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- [03:01]
Charles
takes a screenshot of the home screen like randomly and he saves that screenshot into a folder that the user does not have access to. Only the government has access to. I knew I was dead either way. Either he would shoot me. I saw dry vomit on the road and I was just so hungry that I got on my hands and knees and began pitting the rice out of the dry vomit. Wow. Yeah.
- [03:29]
Sean
Okay, guys, Ch Ryu here Today, really crazy story. We're going to dive into this, but this man escaped North Korea not just once, but twice. So we're going to talk about that and what, what, what else you working on now? So thanks for coming on, man.
- [03:42]
Charles
Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor. Yeah. I've seen all your stuff and a lot of cool people on this show. So I'm really excited to share my story on here and also raise awareness of what's happening in North Korea.
- [03:52]
Sean
Of course.
- [03:53]
Charles
Yeah.
- [03:53]
Sean
And first time in Vegas. So welcome to Vegas.
- [03:55]
Charles
Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been really fun. Doing a lot of fun things. Vegas. Vegas Y things. I guess. Yeah.
- [04:02]
Sean
Not the best weather for your first time. I know.
- [04:04]
Charles
Yeah. It's been like rainy and it's been. It's been windy. So. Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:08]
Sean
Picked an interesting day to come. But let's dive into your story, man. So for those that don't know, because I think my channel is a younger audience, I'm not sure if they've seen your stuff. Could you explain what happened?
- [04:17]
Charles
Yeah, yeah. So just for those who don't know about North Korea, just for a context. So in North Korea you will go to, you know, prison for life or get executed in worst case, just for watching South Korean dramas.
- [04:31]
Sean
Wow.
- [04:31]
Charles
Right?
- [04:32]
Sean
So Squid Game.
- [04:33]
Charles
Yeah. If you were to watch Squid Game, like you can't get you. You can't get killed.
- [04:36]
Sean
Wow.
- [04:36]
Charles
For just watching South Korean drama and by having. Just holding a Bible in North Korea. Right. You. Not just you, but your three generations, your family will be punished. Yeah.
- [04:49]
Sean
So your kids and your grandkids.
- [04:51]
Charles
Yes, your kids and your grandkids. So whenever people ask me that, there's a really good book that I like to reference people to. It's called escape from Camp 14. It's a book written by a North Korean defector who was born and raised in the political prison camp where three generations of your family goes to. Right. So he was born in that prison camp because of their parents. Parents committed crime. Right. And then. And he was born inside of that cell. So I like to reference that book a lot because it's like, it shows how brutal the North Korean regime can be. Right. And yeah. So with that context. So I was born and raised in North Korea under a Chinese father and a North Korean mother. And when I turned five, my dad abandoned me and my mom, and he left to China, and he did not come back and lost my mother when I was 11 from starvation.
- [05:55]
Sean
Wow.
- [05:56]
Charles
And from then on, you know, I basically needed to figure out how to live alone sometimes, you know, begging for food on the street and battling starvation and freezing winter weather. And when I was 14, my half brother. So my dad. So I was born out of wedlock, so my dad was married, but. But he cheated on his wife and had me, and he already had children. And my half brother came to find me when I was living in Sarai Won with my aunt for a little bit.
- [06:29]
Sean
Is that in China or is that in North Korea?
- [06:31]
Charles
That's in North Korea. Yeah. Yeah, that's in North Korea. And then my half brother eventually helped me to escape North Korea for the first time when I was 14. So it happened. Like, I did not know for the first time that I was escaping North Korea. Like, I. I thought that, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go to China. I'm gonna go live with my dad. Right. And that's what I was told. Meanwhile, there are guards with guns, like, watching, like, people, like. Like, if they're trying to escape, like, they will shoot.
- [07:03]
Sean
Of course.
- [07:04]
Charles
Right. There are people watching, and I'm just a child who's, like, pretending to be taking a bath on the river. And when, you know, when everybody's were, you own thing, I swam across the Yalu river that divides North Korea and China. And I got to my father's. I got. Because my father was waiting for me on the other side.
- [07:24]
Sean
Yeah.
- [07:25]
Charles
And we got into a taxi cab, and then we drove off. And I lived. I lived with my dad for about nine months in China. And as you may guess, right, life in China was so much better than North Korea. And it's kind of, in a way, it's really, for me personally, like, you know, how, you know, Americans, you know, I'm American too, but by the way, I got my citizenship. Oh, congrats. Thank you so much. Yeah. And we talk about, like, China. Like, I hear that China doesn't have freedom. You know, China is, like, very strict. Like, a lot of it is true, right? That China does, like, they. They have, like, a strict rules and whatnot. But as a North Korean who came to China and experiencing that for that kind of freedom for the first time, it was like, free to me. Like, it was like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. Like, I wouldn't. I'm not getting punished for watching South Korean drama. Like, I can watch whatever I want. Like, I can say whatever I want. Well, of course not. Whatever I want. Right. But one of the example was that while when I was in China, like, I went to, like, the Korean restaurant, right? And then these people were talking about Kim Jong Il, right? Which is the, like, the previous dictator of North Korea, and how he was fat.
- [08:41]
Sean
Yeah.
- [08:41]
Charles
And that he was a pig. Right. That really shocked me because, like, growing up in North Korea, all I was taught was like, they are some sort of God. Right. There are people like, literally, like, these people, like Kim did these people turn pine cone into a grenade? Right. And that's how they defeated the Japanese. And Kim Il Sung was the grandfather. Grandfather of the current dictator. He can manipulate the earth in a way. Like, literally, like earthbenders.
- [09:17]
Sean
Yeah.
- [09:18]
Charles
They're like the avatar. Literally, like, that's what I was taught. Wow. And hearing that, like, oh, yeah, he's a pig. I was like, am I supposed to be here? Like, am I supposed to be in this place right now hearing this? Right. That was really, really shocking. And life was. Life was great. I loved every moment of my life in China because, you know, like, all the fancy lights, you know, I grew up with black and white tv, you know, but going to, like, arcade rooms, you know, PC cafes and. And playing video games and. And watching, like, all these kind of South. South Korean dramas, like, blew my mind. But, you know, unfortunately, Chinese government does not recognize North Koreans as refugees. So they captured me. So somebody in my neighborhood reported me to the authorities, and then they. Yeah, and then they reported me. The Chinese police came, and then they Arrested us, and they deported us back to North Korea.
- [10:16]
Sean
Oh, your dad, too?
- [10:17]
Charles
No, not my dad, but my dad had a girlfriend who escaped North Korea as well. So we're all living. So it's a total of, like, five of us. So me, my dad, and then my dad's girlfriend and her two daughters who escaped North Korea, too.
- [10:33]
Sean
Wow.
- [10:34]
Charles
So all of us are living together. And we all got arrested, besides my dad, because he's a Chinese guy and he had a passport. So we were like, oh, that's fine. And to be honest, you know, I was really mad at my dad because he could have stood up and said, this is my son. You know, I want to protect him. But he didn't do that. He's like, oh, he was pretty scared, I guess.
- [10:55]
Sean
Wow.
- [10:55]
Charles
So he just let us just capture and send back. And I was 15. I was terrified. Right. And when I. When I got deported back to North Korea, I ended up in this small cell because in the prison or the interrogation prison, there is no enough. Not enough cells. So I stayed in the interrogation room. And, you know, I could hear people screaming on the other side of the other side of the rooms. Like, either side rooms. Like, my leg is broken. Please stop. Like, I'm bleeding. Please stop. You know, and that's when it hit me. It's like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be, like, I'm gonna be okay here. Right? And, yeah, they, you know, they interrogated me, of course, like I was a child. So they did not beat me as hard as, you know, the other. Other, like, inmates or other North Korean defectors. But I still got hit, and I still got interrogated for, you know, days and weeks. Mainly they wanted me to confess that I was trying to defect to South Korea. Right. So I know you're trying to defect to South Korea. I know you're trying to go to South Korea. Right. And I told him, no, I did not. I just escaped North Korea to be with my dad. I had no intention of escaping to South Korea, so please understand. And, you know, they. They understood. And after interrogating me for days and, you know, literally beating me for weeks, they sent me to a North Korean defectors detention center, where I was forced to work up to 12 hours every day. Wow. Right. So. And the detention center, I was only allowed to eat 150 kernels of corn per day. So there is a job for people counting those. Job counting those corns. 50 per meal.
- [12:48]
Sean
Wow.
- [12:49]
Charles
And we weren't provided with pillows or blankets, nothing like that. Like, I got Captured. Like, I went to the prison, I usually call it. It's like a un. UN identifies it as North Korean Defectors Detention center, but it's much, much worse. It's like a labor camp. It's like a prison camp.
- [13:14]
Sean
Yeah.
- [13:16]
Charles
I wore the same clothes that I got captured with and went to the prison camp. I worked in that clothes. I slept in that clothes. They did not give us a change of clothing. The working condition is horrible. The living condition is horrible. I was malnourished, and at one point, we were marching in our rows to our work site and I saw dry vomit on the road. And I was just so hungry that I got on my hands and knees and began picking the rice out of the dry vomit. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I didn't stop eating the vomited rice until literally the beating from the guards were too unbearable because, like, you need to move. We need to go. Like, what the heck are you doing? Right? Because I'm hungry. Like, I picked out a corn out of my own poop and I ate like live mice in farming places because I was hungry. I was malnourished.
- [14:10]
Sean
Wow.
- [14:11]
Charles
And eventually, nine months later, I was released. And again, the worst part, at night, they would force us to recite the rules of the camp, Right? There are many rules, and you had to memorize them. If you misquoted even one of them, they would force you to stand all night reciting the rules until work began the next morning. Oh, my God. Yeah. So it was on one of those nights that I vowed, I will not die here and I will escape North Korea again. Because those guards would come into our cells and tell us straight to our face, you can escape North Korea again. We cannot stop you. But don't get caught. If you get caught, you'll be treated worth less than a bug.
- [14:53]
Sean
Wow. So the guards felt bad for you,
- [14:55]
Charles
but they did not feel bad about us. It's about, like. It's not. The torture itself is not about. It's both trying to break. They cannot stop all of us, Right. They cannot stop us from escaping, but the moment we get caught, they will try to break us both mentally and physically. Right. That's why they are feeding us 150 kernels of corn per day. Right. And that's why they. They don't allow us to sleep. That's why they don't allow us to. Yeah. So, yeah, after that, I was released. After nine months, I was released because I could not even stand up or even lift my arm. Yeah. I was so malnourished. That I was worthless worker. And they basically sent me back to my half brother's house, right. And I was 16 at the time. And after getting released, I got to my half brother's house and my half brother, you know, he. I spent many months trying to regain my strength. But, you know, at some point I needed to support myself. So I began working at a coal mine where I was paid only in rice. So 30 kilograms of rice per month, right. And six days a week I would enter the, you know, dark and damp tunnels of the mine. And there were many other boys who are working in the coal mine as well. You know, we would push a thousand pound steel co cart miles into the mountain. Wow. Then we'll crowd down the smaller tunnels with empty sacks and only return once they're full. Right. And the work in the coal mine was very dangerous. There were cave ins, people losing limbs, and even sometimes lives. And I cannot help thinking that that's gonna be me one day, you know. And, you know, I thought to myself, like, I need to escape. Like, I need to get out of here. It's gonna be the same death. Either I die here or either dying trying to escape North Korea again, Right. And I knew how hard escaping North Korea would be without any money or food. And if I had been caught, like, this is it for me, right? It's my second time escaping and I'm gonna be adult pretty soon.
- [17:28]
Sean
Yeah.
- [17:29]
Charles
But to me, working in that dark coal mine every single day until you might turn to lose a limp or die, right? So the working in that escaping North Korea is far worse than dying here. So one morning I stole five flashlights in the coal mine and I sold that and I used that money to survive for the next three months.
- [17:55]
Sean
Wow.
- [17:56]
Charles
And on a humid day in August, I saw a train come to stop and people were exiting out of the train cars. So in North Korea, there are power outages, like, happening all the time, you know. And even if there is no power outages, the train conductor turn off the train. If there is like some party going on, he would turn off the train, tells people, oh, there is a power outage. He goes to party, like weddings, for example. He would drink, he would eat, and he would just take a, you know, nap, like, or sleep, whatever. And they eventually come back and says, oh, the power came back up, so we can move now. But yeah, the power outage is a real thing in North Korea. So if you were to look at a picture that is taken out from the outer space with a telescope. Telescope.
- [18:42]
Sean
Satellite.
- [18:43]
Charles
Satellite, yeah, satellite. Images that you can see. South Korea is literally, like, littered with light. Whereas North Korea, just like a few different places, like Chunyang, Hamung, like a. The oldest are kind of big cities.
- [18:56]
Sean
What causes so many outages there, you think?
- [18:59]
Charles
I think it's just that it just don't have, like, enough technologies to build dams, you know, and like a make electric city. So it's just. Yeah, they don't have enough technologies and they don't have enough resources. They're just focused too much on. I. Yeah, well, I don't know because, like, it's not a proven fact, but it's just my personal opinion and it's personal experience. But yeah, I think it's the. It's the resources that they lack.
- [19:26]
Sean
Interesting.
- [19:26]
Charles
Yeah.
- [19:27]
Sean
Because there's theories they have nuclear weapons, but if they can't even have electricity, that's the problem.
- [19:31]
Charles
Oh, yeah, right. Because I mean, that's the. I mean, as a North Korean person, as a North Korean defector, and as a North Korean peep, like in the people who lives there, at least from, like. At least like where I'm from. Right. If you were to get like, two hours of electricity like, every, like every week, like, that would be great.
- [19:49]
Sean
Wow.
- [19:50]
Charles
Yeah. And there is no such thing as, like, street lamps. Right. There is no such thing as paid. Well, there are, like, of course, like in Pyongyang, if you were to look at it, there are street lamps, the road is paved and nice apartments and buildings, like, all around the places in Pyongyang. But where I'm from, like, you know, I'm from, like, you know, Tangjingun is like a very small town.
- [20:12]
Sean
Yeah.
- [20:13]
Charles
That's where my, you know, my dad was nothing. That's no street lamps, no paved roads. You know, during the winter and the springs, like, it gets all muddy. Rains. Yeah.
- [20:25]
Sean
So you can't even drive at night.
- [20:27]
Charles
Nobody owned cars.
- [20:28]
Sean
Oh, no one owned cars.
- [20:29]
Charles
Like, sure. People who are in Pyongyang, they can own cars. Like government officials, they can own cars. But it's a dictatorship. It's a. Like, you are not allowed. Like, you're not personally allowed to own anything. Wow. So
- [20:44]
Sean
even real estate. Can you own a house there?
- [20:47]
Charles
It is provided for you by the government. By the regime. Yeah. So you're not allowed to buy or sell anything.
- [20:55]
Sean
Wow.
- [20:55]
Charles
So that's my understanding. And also that's, you know, I mean, that's my understanding of, like, the North Korean, the totalitarian. Because North Korea is. Right. Communist and North Korea is socialist country. Right. It's their own Version of juche ideology. Right. Self reliance juche. So, yeah. And then the power outage happened and people were exiting out of the train cars. So I mingled, I joined the line, and when the park came back up and I realized that the train was going from Pyongyang, which is the capital, to Hyesan, which is the border town that divides North Korea and China. And I saw that and I was like, I need to get in that train. So when the. When the power came back up, people were boarding the trains. So I was like, I gotta get on that. And I joined the line and the train guard asked me for my papers and documents. Because in North Korea, there are checkpoints on all major roads and it would be impossible for you to travel. Because for me, I did not have, you know, travel documents or enough money to buy the train tickets. And especially this train because it was going to the border town. If you were to get caught without proper documents, you will be punished severely. Because this is going to the border town. It tells you it's an attempted escape. Right. And of course, the guards on the train with AK47 checking everything. Yeah. So when I got on that train, because I lied to the train guards and saying my mother was on the train and that she already had the tickets and documents, and when I get on there, I'll bring her to you. Right. And the train girl's like, okay. He nodded and he let me on. And you know, for the next two days, I hit on the train.
- [22:49]
Sean
It was a two day ride.
- [22:50]
Charles
Yeah. So if. Right. It was South Korea. Well, not to South Korea. From one end of Korea to the other end of Korea. Right. So from Baekdu. So it's. Baekdu is the very top of North Korea. Hala is the very bottom of Korea. When you think of a pentaslop. Right. It probably would take no less than eight hours to just drive from one end to the another end because both Korea combined, it's still smaller than half of California. Right. So yeah. But for me, it took two days because there are power outages, train stops almost very regular, very frequently. And sometimes the train is going slower than you just walking.
- [23:41]
Sean
Wow.
- [23:41]
Charles
Right. And all. All the. Meanwhile, the guards are checking your plane tickets, the train tickets and documents. So I would have to climb out of the window and, you know, and hide on the top of the train to avoid the guards. Right. And sometimes I have to hide in the hitch between the two cars to avoid the guards. And if I was caught in that train, then, yeah, I'll be Sent to the, you know, the labor camp, and eventually I'll probably starve to die. And thankfully, I did not get sent to the labor camp. I. At the end of two days, we reached the. The border town. And then I come to the border town. I reached the river. And then around like 3pm I walked into a river that divides North Korea and China. And I hid in the tall grass for many hours, waiting for the darkness. And when I finally thought it was safe, I slowly, quietly waded into the water. And then I, you know, I slowly walked in, and in the middle of the river, I slipped on a rock and I let out a gasp.
- [24:52]
Sean
Oh, God.
- [24:52]
Charles
Yeah. And then immediately a flood of light was on my back, and I heard a gar screaming at me. Right? It's like, it means like, pastor, come back here or I will shoot. Right. And I mean, I knew I was dead either way. Right. Either he would shoot me or I would obey and return to the shore, only to be shipped off to a labor camp and eventually die.
- [25:23]
Sean
Yeah.
- [25:25]
Charles
And I, you know, I was like, I don't care. Like, I just go ahead, shoot me. And I decided not to turn back. And I kept wetted ahead, and, you know, the guards kept screaming at me, but, you know, he fortunately never pulled the trigger. Wow.
- [25:41]
Sean
You think it's because you were a kid?
- [25:43]
Charles
You know, and I have. I have multiple theories. Right. So first of all, I'm Christian. Yeah. So I believe that God had hand on me at the time. And I recently also, I recently learned that North Korean military fires three bullets each year.
- [26:04]
Sean
Oh, that's it.
- [26:05]
Charles
Right? That's it.
- [26:06]
Sean
That's nothing.
- [26:07]
Charles
I know. Three bullets each year because they don't have enough resources to do so. They don't have enough resources to make bullets.
- [26:14]
Sean
Wow.
- [26:14]
Charles
Three bullets each North Korean soldier. And of course, like, it depends on, like, where. It depends on, like, like which military you are. Right, of course. Like border guards or people like Kim Jong Il's bodyguard, for example. They will shoot, right? All the time, Right. But regular North Korean militaries, they, like, they carry almost like empty AK47 with, you know, no bullets in them.
- [26:37]
Sean
Wow.
- [26:40]
Charles
And then my. And also, you know, and I, you know, I. I feel like I'm hearing the guards who are screaming at me like, he was also a kid, you know, because in North Korea, you go to military when you're 17. For now it's 12 years, but back then it was 10 years. Right. So you go to military when you are 17 and you come out when you're 27.
- [27:02]
Sean
Wow.
- [27:02]
Charles
For 10 years mandatory service.
- [27:04]
Sean
Holy crap.
- [27:04]
Charles
So, yeah, so, you know, I also heard that, like, this person who's screaming at me, it was not like, you know, heavy, like, you know, deep voice. It's much more high pitched, like a, like a scream. So those are, those are my theories. But, you know, fortunately, he did not pull the trigger. And if he did, you know, I probably won't be here. Interesting, right? So thankfully, you know, I kept wet at hat, and then five minutes later, you know, I was dripping wet. But, you know, finally back in China, I walked in China for three days without any proper meal or, you know, water. My North Korean quality shoe fell apart because I was walking so much and my feet got blisters and it popped and it started bleeding. So I could not walk anymore. So I collapsed and I, you know, I was ready to die and I started crying and I started regretting the decision that I made to escape North Korea, because if I were to be in the coal mine right now, I would have food in my stomach and I would have roof over my head. Why did I escape North Korea to face this kind of fate? And frankly, I was curious, like, why am I the only one who's going through this kind of struggle? And I blamed everybody. And I was sad, I was crying and I prayed. Because when I first escaped. When I first escaped North Korea, a South Korean pastor came to my house and he taught me how to pray. And he gave me a Gospel of Matthew, a tiny Bible. And, you know, I didn't care about it so much. Like, I did not know what Christianity was. I did not know what, what God was, you know, because North Korea portrayed like they talked about, yeah, Christianity, they talked about, like pastors, they talked about churches. But they demonize like, they demonize like other religions, right? At least that's how I was taught when I was in North Korea. So I did not really care about it much. But I still read the Gospel of Matthew because each time this pastor come to my house, he would ask me, like, how many pages of this book did you read? And I was like, oh, yeah, I've read like two to three. He'll give me Chinese yen based on how many. How many pages I've read. So I usually tell people that he bribed me into the kingdom, you know, so, you know, I'm glad he did. And that's how I learned about Christianity. And when I was going through the labor camps, the North Korean defectors detention centers, and when I was going to the coal mine, escaping again, like, you Know those journeys, I, you know, I constantly prayed and you know, asking God for, you know, wisdom and help. And then at the end of three days journey, you know, my shoe fell apart, my feet got blisters, it, my blisters. And he popped and he started bleeding. I could not walk anymore. I'm hungry, I'm dehydrated, I'm exhausted and I kneel down And I started crying and regretting everything. And then I prayed, God, please don't let me die like this. And maybe it was a miracle or maybe I was just really lucky or I don't know what it was. But sometime later, a Chinese guy drives motorcycle middle of nowhere, has no business whatsoever doing like middle of nowhere. He shows up, he comes to me and he stares at me for a while think like, trying to think of like what should I do, right? And then he offers me bread and water. And then he picks me up, he puts me, puts me on his motorcycle. And then we drove to his house for, for many hours. And then he gives me medication for my feedback. He feeds me, give me clothing, gives me money. Next morning he connects me to a South Korean pastor who eventually helped me to get to my dad's house. Wow. And then I got on a bus and I came to my dad's house and I knocked on my dad's door, right? I knocked on it. And he opens the door, he flips out, right? He grabs the belt and he started beating me. He asked me, did you kill a person in North Korea? Because it doesn't make sense to him, right? Like 17 year old kid risking his life crossing the international border. And it's not just like going to a neighbor's house, right? I told my dad, no, I was hungry. I want, I missed you and I wanted to be with you, right? And my dad was like, all right, fine. And he took me in and you know, I was terrified. You know, even though I came to China and even though I'm like, okay, now I'm safe, like from like starvation, but I wasn't safe, right? Because I was in a constant fear of being captured and sent back to North Korea, right? And if I were to get captured here and sent back to North Korea, there is no mercy for me because it's a second time and I would have no life. You know, it was, it was terrifying. It was, you know, I could not go out during the daytime. I would only go out like in the super early in the morning or super late at night. I was afraid of just looking at police officers. Even when after coming to America, like, I was terrified of the police, you know, because, like, Chinese police and ptsd. Yeah, PTSD and whatnot. But my dad was like, you know what? If you're. If you're going to stay here, like, you have no life? Like, you know, it's like, eventually you're going to get captured and you're going to be sent back to North Korea. You're going to die anyway. So go to South Korea. Dying, trying to escape China and go to South Korea. So he introduced me to a broker who smuggles North Korean refugees out from China to Southeast Asia. And from Southeast Asia, they go to Thailand. And in Thailand, there is an international refugee camp. So in the international refugee camp, I apply for a political asylum to United Nation. And then United Nation accepted me, and they sent me to California back in 2012.
- [33:38]
Sean
Wow.
- [33:38]
Charles
Yeah. So I came to conquer, which is. It's in NorCal without speaking any English, and I enrolled in high school the next day. No English. And, you know, it's like world history. Like, what is that? Algebra? Like, what is that? Because I dropped out of school when I was nine in North Korea to nurse my mom. But, you know, I worked hard. I graduated high school within three years.
- [34:05]
Sean
Wow.
- [34:06]
Charles
And I worked at Panda Express. I worked at Subway. I worked at sushi restaurants, and I, you know, drove Uber Lyft. I worked as a driving instructor for about six months. Scariest. Scariest time of my life. It was terrifying. You know, good thing that I had separate breaks. Yeah. And, you know, eventually I also went to coding bootcamp, and I learned how to code, and now I. I work as a software engineer for a small school.
- [34:40]
Sean
Incredible.
- [34:40]
Charles
And. Yeah.
- [34:41]
Sean
American dream, man.
- [34:42]
Charles
American dream. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I can dream. So I guess that's kind of like the. The shortest amount of time that I spend telling my story.
- [34:51]
Sean
No. Well done.
- [34:52]
Charles
If you have any questions, please.
- [34:54]
Sean
So interesting. Wow. You picked a good state to come to California.
- [34:57]
Charles
Yeah, it's. It's been. It's been very. Yeah. Very nice. Like, I've. I. I tell. I tell to tell. I say that to people. Like, I'm truly blessed. Yeah. You know, and. And, like, people say, oh, you have a outgoing, you know, like, smiling personality, even, you know, going through all that kind of stuff, you know? You know, I say that.
- [35:18]
Announcer
Yeah.
- [35:18]
Charles
Because I. I have a reason to smile.
- [35:22]
Sean
Yeah.
- [35:22]
Charles
Like, I've. I've been given so many chances, and now I'm here.
- [35:26]
Sean
Beautiful.
- [35:26]
Charles
You know, and land of opportunity. I'm like, you know, land of opportunity. And. And when you Decide to do something here. Like, if you work hard enough and if you believe it enough, you can achieve it. Like, look at me, I cannot speak a word of English. When I come to America right now, I'm a senior system architect for a small company, and I have a YouTube channel and just dream big and achieve it.
- [35:48]
Sean
Yeah, yeah, your YouTube, it gets a lot of views, man. Well done.
- [35:51]
Charles
Thank you.
- [35:52]
Sean
That's how I found you.
- [35:53]
Charles
Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.
- [35:55]
Sean
It was some tier list video you made about North Korea propaganda.
- [35:58]
Charles
Yeah. North Korea skipping North Korea. And yeah, I've made a couple of those and it's been popping up. And I'm grateful that I get those kind of opportunities to share my story and what's happening in North Korea, too. And here's a really interesting bit too. Like, I tell the people that, yeah, my story is very unique, but it's not uncommon. You know, like, one out of thousands of others, you know, end in tragedy.
- [36:26]
Sean
Wow.
- [36:27]
Charles
Other North Korean defector stories end in tragedy. And my story is just a story now. But there are still people in North Korea right now, right at this moment, who still struggles to survive because the food insecurity is so severe. Right, sure. The famine is not happening anymore. There's no, you know, from 1990 to early 2000s, the United Nation approximate that millions, like anywhere between 600,000 to like 2 million people were starved to death. Wow. Right. Yeah. Because of the famine. And. And you know, the Russia, the Soviet Union collapsed and two massive floods because of that. North Korea, when it's the massive famine where Kim Jong Il just like, shook it off us, like, oh, yeah, it's just a temporary food shortage. No problem, no biggie. And yeah, millions of people starved to death. Like, my mom used to tell me that. Yeah. Like, when she go out to the street, there's just like dead bodies everywhere. Like, even the hospital, they have a special room to put in dead people. Right. It's like a. It's like a dead people's room, but the room was just so full of dead bodies that they. They couldn't put it in there anymore. So they just, like, pile it up in front of the hospital.
- [37:39]
Sean
That's crazy.
- [37:40]
Charles
Yeah. And. And, well, that doesn't happen anymore. Right. Things got a little better, but there are still severe food insecurities in North Korea. Like, my mom, like, I lost my mom to starvation.
- [37:51]
Sean
Yeah.
- [37:52]
Charles
She. She died when I was 11. And, you know, I remember she's still saying, like, well, if I could eat a goat, like, I would get up and dance, you know? Because she was just so hungry and.
- [38:00]
Sean
Wow.
- [38:02]
Charles
But, yeah, you know, my story is just a story. There are 25 million people who's going through something very similar to what I went through.
- [38:10]
Sean
That's a lot.
- [38:10]
Charles
Yeah, 25 million people.
- [38:12]
Sean
So most people are unhappy there.
- [38:15]
Charles
It's a totalitarian regime. Right. It's a totalitarian, like a. Like a dictatorship country. Right. And you have no opinion. You don't get to choose. There is no freedom of movement. There are no freedom of speech. There are no freedom of information, religion. Like, nothing. If you were to say bad things. If you were to, like, right now. What. I'm. I'm still not used to it, but I can talk crap about government all I want. Like. Like Trump, like Obama. And one of the. One of the joke, you know, here in America is like, oh, something happens. Like, thanks, Obama. Right? And we talk about, you know, Joe Biden all the time and Trump all the time. If you were to do that in North Korea, not just you, but your entire three generations of your family will get wiped out.
- [39:02]
Sean
That's insane. You know, they'll take you out for.
- [39:05]
Charles
Oh, absolutely, yeah. If you just say publicly executed. Publicly executed for saying things like that.
- [39:13]
Sean
If you call them fat, you'll get publicly executed.
- [39:16]
Charles
Yeah, yeah. If you. If you call them, you're fat. Or. Or if, like, that is the highest crime, the treason that you can commit is to talk bad. Any bad. You know, as a tourist, when you go into North Korea, you can't even take a photo of the statue in a wrong angle.
- [39:39]
Sean
Really?
- [39:39]
Charles
A weird angle. Wow. That's illegal. They ask you to delete it. Right. And you know what happened to Otto Warmbier, right?
- [39:46]
Sean
Who?
- [39:47]
Charles
Otto Warmbier. He's an American student who went into North Korea back in 2017, and he was sentenced to, like, 14 years in the labor camp, and he was tortured, and he was sent back home basically in a coma. And unfortunately, two days later, he. A day later, after coming. Coming back home, he passed away.
- [40:04]
Sean
Wow.
- [40:06]
Charles
But. But anyway, so. So, yeah, he took a photo.
- [40:09]
Sean
Like, what will happen?
- [40:10]
Charles
So he. He. North Korean regime claims that he took. Took down a poster. I don't know what happened. Like, I wasn't there. I don't know, but I was just seeing what, you know, kind of things are surfacing online. And I saw, like, people, like, they were saying that, oh, yeah, Otto Warmbier took down a poster, propaganda poster. And that's like a big crime in North Korea, right? It's like, you're not allowed to do that, but he did that anyways, but I don't know.
- [40:32]
Sean
Yeah.
- [40:32]
Charles
Like if he really did it or something happened. But yeah, he was sent back home brain dead and he passed away.
- [40:38]
Sean
That's terrible. Do you know if the North Korean government's still after you or.
- [40:44]
Charles
I don't know.
- [40:45]
Sean
I mean, it's been a while, right?
- [40:47]
Charles
It's been a while. What are they going to do? I'm an American citizen.
- [40:50]
Sean
Right. They can't touch you here.
- [40:52]
Charles
Yeah, yeah, they can't touch me here. I'm safe. But you know, I. I will never stop sharing my story and I'll never stop trying to raise awareness of what's happening in old Korea, what happened to my mom and what happened to, you know, my friends back in North Korea. And, you know, because I want. I want the freedom for them.
- [41:15]
Sean
Yeah.
- [41:15]
Charles
And like, I still think about those kind of things where, like, I go back to a free North Korea and, you know, I think about it all the time. It's like I meet my friends and, you know, I, I'm like, in my mind I'm trying to like, convince them of like my life in America. It's like they don't believe me.
- [41:32]
Sean
Yeah.
- [41:33]
Charles
Because like, how can that be true? Like, you're crazy.
- [41:36]
Sean
They're brainwashed, right?
- [41:37]
Charles
They're propaganda. Yeah, propaganda and those kind of things.
- [41:40]
Sean
So, like, they don't have cell phones over there, right?
- [41:42]
Charles
Nope. There's no Internet. I mean, there is Internet, right. Nowadays they do have cell phones, but not average North Koreans annual salary is anywhere between US$800 to US$1200 annual annual salary. Meanwhile, the cell phone cost about US$1400.
- [42:06]
Sean
Wow.
- [42:06]
Charles
Right.
- [42:07]
Sean
So you don't work a whole year.
- [42:08]
Charles
It's, it's, it's for extremely low. Like it's for rich people only. Right, Right. For, for regular people, they can't even dream of owning a phone. Right. And even though there is a cell phone, like in that cell phone, it's just like so heavily controlled. There is no Google. There is no Internet. They cannot access anything. There is no social media. There is no Netflix. There is nothing. And the cell phone itself takes a screenshot of the home screen randomly and it saves that screenshot into a folder that the user does not have access. No way. Only the government has access to. So they can see what you are looking at and then, you know, they can punish you for it. That's crazy. So heavy, heavy, heavy monitoring system. And again, like, that's only for the rich people, Right. Because normal people really can't afford that.
- [43:05]
Sean
Yeah.
- [43:06]
Charles
And no Internet access, although there is intranet, right? So within like the, the libraries or within like certain areas of, of North Korea. Yeah, you can have intranet.
- [43:19]
Sean
And how do they talk about Americans over there?
- [43:21]
Charles
Oh, well, I mean, the reason why North Korea suffers, right? Because this is the way I was taught when I was in North Korea. The reason why North Korea suffers, the reason why we are so poor, the reason why we have to make so many bullets instead of candies and food is to defend ourselves from Americans, right? Because America is always trying to invade North Korea. And they have invaded North Korea with South Korea. I'm talking about the forgotten war, which is the, you know, June 20, June, June 25, the Korean War that lasted three years, right? North Korea invaded South Korea, but they twisted that and told us that, yeah, America invaded North Korea. They started the Korean War, right? So we have to defend ourselves. And that's why we're trying to. Trying so hard to, you know, defend ourselves. And there are war museums everywhere. You know, like as a kid, you know how we go to like field trips to different, different places and instead of going to like the, instead of going to like those kind of field trips, we went to like the war museums and we get to see like how like North Korean regime demonizing Americans, right? Americans of like how bad they are. Even the drawings themselves, like looks like a werewolf with a long nose, like a facial hairs. I'm ugly. But when I first came to America, like those are beautiful people. So yeah, North Korea demonizes Americans. It's all America's fault that we're struggling, that we, the reason why we are like this is because America. Yeah. And we have to, at least when I was in North Korea, we have to liberate South Korea from Americans.
- [45:16]
Sean
Wow.
- [45:17]
Charles
So they demonize it. They. They hit America. Yeah. And for example, right? So like this is like a North Korean archba, right? There are, like there are evil, like there are 25 evil American tanks. And then one brave North Korean tanks comes in and destroys five of those evil American tanks. How many evil American tanks are remaining, right? So every single subject in North Korea, right, has to contain something of like hating America, loving Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung and dying for the regime, right? Even like the, like the, the language itself has like the war heroes, the stories of war heroes, how they died and even pes. We have these mannequins of evil Americans and we have a stick and just run as fast as you can and try to hit those American bastards with the baseball bat or wooden Sticks and art and craft. We learned to draw. How can we shoot down these American planes, things like that. So, yeah, America is well hated by North Korea.
- [46:32]
Sean
Wow. If we wanted to take over there, it'd be so easy.
- [46:35]
Charles
Probably it won't. It wouldn't be so easy, really. The reason is because Russia and China is involved. Right. So that's gonna. That's the only reason why North Korea still exists, really, is because of just my opinion. That's my personal opinion. Russia and China, because Russia is big.
- [46:55]
Sean
Yeah. So they would go to war for
- [46:56]
Charles
North Korea, you think? I think so, yeah. I mean, like the, Like, I'm not. I'm not such an expert, so I can't speak for that. But. But my personal opinion is that the Russia, you know, wants the power of like, you know, like. Yes. So because of, you know, the political dynamics between China, Russia, and also the economic interest of Japan and America. Yeah. Russia wouldn't let. Russia and China wouldn't let North Korea fall or. So that means South Korea is becoming even more bigger. Right. And that means, like, yeah, South Korea can have more land and more natural resources and becoming more rich, and South Korea is an ally, you know, with America.
- [47:40]
Sean
Right.
- [47:40]
Charles
Therefore, if North Korea becomes like some. Some like, sort of like, like a, like a South Korea, then that means United States is a big influence in North Korea. Right. So this is my personal opinion. So definitely. Yes. It's going to be hard. I don't think that. I don't think that's gonna happen.
- [47:59]
Sean
Okay. Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know they had powerful allies.
- [48:02]
Charles
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, also, Kim Jong un sent, you know, 10, 000 soldiers. I think it's in the. In the. More than that, soldiers to the Ukraine.
- [48:10]
Sean
Ukraine, right. Yeah, Yeah. A lot of them died, right?
- [48:12]
Charles
Yeah, absolutely. They're not trained soldiers. They're just. They're just like, in Korea, like, they're just a sacrifice.
- [48:24]
Sean
Wow.
- [48:25]
Charles
You know, there's a sacrifice to Kim Jong Un's like, you know, greed because they, Each one of them got like, like 1500 US dollars to send to, like, you know, because they. Russia paid for those soldiers. Right. To Kim Jong Un. And those money just went to the family. Yeah. No, no, not to the family. Kim Jong Un, What? He just.
- [48:45]
Sean
Oh, he kept it all.
- [48:46]
Charles
He kept it all. Yeah.
- [48:47]
Sean
Wow.
- [48:48]
Charles
So. So that's. And again, like, soldiers who came to Russia, right, they got exposed to Internet. Right. They were exposed to the Internet. They learned a lot of things.
- [49:00]
Sean
So they found out all the propaganda and Probably.
- [49:04]
Charles
Right. And a lot of them died, and also a lot of, like, a few of them returned. Right. And you've seen, like, the soldiers, like, hugging, like, Kim Jong Un, hugging those soldiers and visiting all those memorials and whatnot. Like, I. That's all for a show.
- [49:19]
Sean
Yeah.
- [49:20]
Charles
And even the soldiers, like, I have. I have a. My personal, you know, doubt that those soldiers can never live a normal life because they will be constantly watched by North Korean regime because they have been exposed to the Internet, the truth. Right. Outside of North Korea. So they will be constantly watched by the North Korean regime, and they will be discouraged from sharing those kind of stories that they have learned outside of North Korea. Right. Because that wouldn't be good for North Korean regime.
- [49:51]
Sean
That's terrible.
- [49:52]
Charles
Yeah.
- [49:52]
Sean
What if you marry someone from another race? Are you allowed to move out of North Korea?
- [49:56]
Charles
No, no. Inter. Inter. International marriage is not allowed.
- [49:59]
Sean
Wow.
- [50:00]
Charles
There's no marriage. You can't date. So you know how the tourism happens, right? So you can go into tourism. Like tour guides. Like, first of all, like, people who gets to work in. That is like, my, you know, my. From, like, what I know, right? From what I know and from my experience, like, tour guides are selected. They're highly trained, Right. Highly trained, highly brainwashed, like, ultra uber loyal to the regime. Right. Those kind of people are selected to be the tour guides of North Korea. And the tourism comes in, and they are only allowed to interact with a few people that actually, like, few people who the government assigns to. Right. So you're not allowed to meet the locals. Therefore, there is no opportunity for North Korean people to marry, like, international people, because they're blocked. Right. Think about North Korea as, like, prison without a wall. Like, prison without actual bars. Right? And that's why North Korea is known as Hermit Kingdom, because, like, there's no freedom inside. It's, like, trapped. Yeah. So no intern. International marriage. No. Like, regular people doesn't even know. Like, passport. Like, what do we need it for? Like, a wallet or do you carry wallet? Why do you carry wallet? Like, you don't even have money. Like, you don't even. Like, you can't even go anywhere.
- [51:28]
Sean
Jeez.
- [51:29]
Charles
Right? So, yeah, at least that's, like, my town, and at least, like, that's how I grew up.
- [51:34]
Sean
Yeah. I can't believe people go there as tourists. Why would you want to go there?
- [51:37]
Charles
I have no idea. Like, I, I, you know, some people, right? Some people say that. Yeah. Like, North Korea is great.
- [51:46]
Sean
Dennis Rodman. Yeah. Dennis Rodman. I don't know what he's doing.
- [51:50]
Charles
And I mean, you know, like, I've. I've encountered so many people like recently who's going into Pyongyang and they say, oh, this looks normal. Nothing looks fake. Nothing looks staged, bro. Because you are actually going into a North Korea where the entire city is set up to show foreigners and inside of. No, like to brainwash people who are inside of North Korea and outside of North Korea. Right. Kim Jong Un stole like North Korea, like North Korean regime stole $6 billion worth of cryptocurrency. And where do you think those money went to? Wow. Right? So those money went to building this lavish things like lavish resort that, you know, Kim Jong Un built for the foreigners, for the people, hospitals. That's crazy. It's. It's all for the show.
- [52:42]
Sean
Yeah. I was just gonna ask if you
- [52:43]
Charles
were to go into those kind of buildings or the hospitals. There's. I. I bet you, I. I bet 100 on it that there's no running water. Electricity goes out all the time. There is no elevator. You have to walk stairs. And there's like a. It blocked with like a wooden. Like a plank. Just out of order, you know. So North Korean regime focuses a lot on their image, right? Of like, oh, we have churches, right? So in Pyongyang, we have churches. And people can practice many different religions. And when North Korean people gets caught with Bible, three generations will get wiped out by North Korean regime.
- [53:23]
Sean
Even if they're not born yet. Or do they have to be already born?
- [53:29]
Charles
Shin Dong Hyuk, for example, he wasn't born. So Shin Dong Hyo, the guy who was the escape from chem 14, he wasn't born yet. He was born inside of the camp. Chem 14. Right. He wasn't born when the parents committed crime. Like, he wasn't even conceived when. When the. His parents committed a crime.
- [53:53]
Sean
And he was there his whole life.
- [53:54]
Charles
Yeah. He was there his entire 20, 23 years of his life. Yeah. I'm not gonna spoil so much book for you, but the only reason why he escaped those prison is because he never tasted a meat before. And he wanted to taste what meat tasted like.
- [54:09]
Sean
Wow.
- [54:09]
Charles
So that's why he risked his life and you know. Okay, one part I'm gonna spoil. Sorry, sorry. The book readers. But because of the electric fences, right? He escaped with like multiple different people. And then he actually, the. The first guy got caught on the electric wire. And like his body was barbecuing the first guy.
- [54:36]
Sean
Wow.
- [54:36]
Charles
And he had to actually climb over the guy who's like electrifying the burning body. Yeah. Like smelling this. Yeah. Anyway, so. So, yeah, he wasn't born, like, he wasn't born at the time. Right. But because North Korea has this, like, bad blood, right. They call it the songbun. Right. Which means, like, it's like a caste system. Like, songbun is, like, based on who you are, based on, like, you know. Yes. Songbun. It's like, it works like a caste system and. Yeah. So three generations of your family will be punished.
- [55:12]
Sean
That's nuts.
- [55:12]
Charles
Yeah.
- [55:13]
Sean
What happens after Kim Jong Un? Because he's getting older now, right?
- [55:15]
Charles
Yeah. I mean, his. His health is declining. You know, I mean, that man just visibly looks unwell.
- [55:22]
Sean
Yeah. Does he have kids?
- [55:24]
Charles
He. Like, he has one daughter. That's, you know, we know, like, at least. Like, what we know is that he has a daughter. One daughter. But I wouldn't be surprised if he kind of kept a son, you know, somewhere or maybe like, when he dies, like, you know, some other random person comes up and, like, oh, you know, I'm the, you know, close descendant of Kim Jong Un and things like that. Or maybe his sister can take over, but I'm not really sure. Yeah. Because, like, that's. Yeah. At least what I'm thinking is that somebody looks alike Kim Jong Un, or even, like a Kim Jong Un's family or descendant of somebody would try to take over.
- [56:00]
Sean
So not much will change.
- [56:02]
Charles
Not much will change. That's at least what I'm thinking. But also, North Korea, there is, like, a huge skeptic skepticism that, like, Korea. North Korea, at least, you know, is. Is very, like, sexist, you know, country and patriotical. Right. Patriarchal. Like a patriarch. Men are the patriarch of the household. And I'm not really sure how North Korean people will perceive, like, either Kim Jong Un's sister or his daughter taking over North Korea. Like, I'm just personally thinking that. Oh, like, is that the. Like the. Like a weak link of the chain? Like, is it finally gonna break? You know, people rise up and, like, we cannot deal with this anymore.
- [56:47]
Sean
I mean, you see that here in America, too.
- [56:49]
Charles
Yeah.
- [56:51]
Sean
Not as bad, but.
- [56:52]
Charles
Yeah, I. I don't know anything about that. But at least, like, North Korea. Right? Like, people, like, they have a potential to realize. It's like. Like we have been brainwashed.
- [57:07]
Sean
Yeah.
- [57:08]
Charles
And. And at least that we can see it in the South Korean dramas or, like, a foreign medias that are coming in. And that's why Kim Jong Un is, like, so heavy on blocking those media. And that's why he's punishing it with death. Right. Like, if you watch South Korean dramas, you are going to be sent to a political prison camp for life or death in the worst case. That's crazy.
- [57:35]
Sean
When. When people escape, do most of them go to South Korea?
- [57:38]
Charles
Yeah, yeah, they go to South Korea because the same culture, some language benefit is great. They get housings, they get education for free. They get money.
- [57:48]
Sean
Really?
- [57:48]
Charles
So, yeah, a lot of them choose to go to South Korea. Korea. But for me, I. I didn't go to South Korea because I couldn't go to South Korea because of my dad, who was Chinese. Therefore, South Korean government was like, oh, we'd love to help you, but we cannot change the law. Like, Chinese people aren't. Chinese descendants aren't accepted as refugees in South Korea.
- [58:09]
Sean
Really?
- [58:10]
Charles
And they're like, yeah, we'll send you back to China. And I was like, no, if I go to China, I'm going to get killed. Please don't just kill me here. And then they're like, yeah, we cannot help you. So I talked to UN and then I explained my situation. It's like, that sucks, bro. And then they. They helped me to come to America.
- [58:28]
Sean
I think America's even better.
- [58:29]
Charles
I know, right? I'm blessed. Like, I'm sitting here with you. Like, maybe, like, if. If somebody, you know, somebody told me, like, when I was in North Korea, hey, Charles, So, you know, 13 years later, you're gonna go to America and you're gonna be sitting in front of, like, this really famous guy, you know, and telling you about your story. I was like, who are you and why are you here? Like, you're crazy.
- [58:48]
Sean
Yeah. You know, but that's awesome.
- [58:50]
Charles
Things are possible.
- [58:51]
Sean
Well, thanks for sharing your story. I think it's gonna help a lot of people. What are you working on next? Where can people find you and keep up with you?
- [58:57]
Charles
Oh, yeah. So I have a YouTube channel called Charles North Korea. And I also have, you know, Instagram and Facebook and TikTok as well. So, Charles, North Korea, you can find me there. Awesome. And yeah, I, you know, I try to be the voice for voiceless North Korean people by sharing my story and also have other North Korean defectors on the channel get to share their story. Right. Like, I try to tell people that when you look at North Korea, North Korea is like a big puzzle with a lot of different pieces missing. Each of us, like north as meaning North Korean defectors bring in these different puzzle pieces to actually make a full picture. Right. And each of us have very unique stories because even Within North Korea, we cannot travel. There's no freedom of movement and there is no freedom of information. So we don't really know what's going on. The opposite of North Korea's. Right. And all of these different North Korean defectors coming in with their story and we get to see what's actually happening in North Korea. Right. It's not like North Korean regime will give us, like, reports of like, each end of the year. It's like, oh, this is what happened, what happened this year in North Korea. Right. It's nothing like that. It's like, yeah, North Korean people's testimonies. And that's why it's so important for us to share our stories.
- [60:14]
Sean
Absolutely. Thanks for doing what you do, man.
- [60:16]
Charles
Thank you, Sean.
- [60:16]
Sean
Yeah, thanks for coming on. Check him out, guys, and message him if you need some advice.
- [60:21]
Charles
Yes. Yeah, please. If you have any questions. I do this thing called Ask a North Korean on the, on the street. I have this big sign and then I, you know, I ask people. I ask people to ask me questions. So, yeah, so if you have any questions about North Korea or if, if even if you want to, you know, help North Korean people, please do message me because I'm actually working on a non profit, nice 501c3, where I want to give North Korean defectors an opportunity in America. So please do message me. That'd be great.
- [60:50]
Sean
Awesome. Check them out, guys.
- [60:51]
Charles
Peace. Thank you.
- [60:53]
Sean
Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. Means a lot to me. If you could please leave a review on Apple that helps us climb the charts. It helps us get way more guests and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me, me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.
- [61:09]
Charles
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- [62:36]
Charles
Fantastic.
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Sean
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Charles
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Charles
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Sean
I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
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Sean
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