Peter Roth: Why Cold Calling Is Stronger Than Ever in 2025 | DSH #1650

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour - Peter Roth: Why Cold Calling Is Stronger Than Ever in 2025 (DSH #1650)

Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Peter Roth (Call Center Owner & Sales Expert)

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode of Digital Social Hour, Sean Kelly sits down with Peter Roth, a veteran entrepreneur and call center owner. Together, they dive deep into the present and future of cold calling and sales outreach, confronting misconceptions, regulatory changes, the impact of AI, and the timeless value of relationships in business. The episode is laced with candid stories, actionable insights for entrepreneurs, and reflections on risk and resilience in sales and investment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Value of Relationships and Value-based Selling

• Relationships as a Core Business Principle

  • Peter repeatedly emphasizes relationships:

    "Relationships are number one. If you go through life where the relationship is the most important thing, the money will always follow suit." (00:59, 11:01)

  • Providing value that exceeds price is the underpinning of any successful sale.
  • When you can make a client more than you charge them, your business becomes indispensable.

• Selling Ethically and Successfully

  • Sean and Peter agree that overcomplicating sales is a common pitfall, especially for younger entrepreneurs who may be "chasing money":

    "A sale is like, if value exceeds price, a sale is made." - Peter (01:17, 11:43)
    "Because your numbers will talk for themselves, your history will speak. But people focus on the wrong things, I think." - Sean (01:22, 11:48)

The State of Cold Calling in 2025

• AI-Driven Landscape & Regulation

  • Regulatory bodies (TCPA, FCC) banned AI for cold calling in early 2024, reserving its use only for opt-in situations:

    "TCPA banned that in February of 2024. Wow. You can't use AI for cold calling." - Peter (02:43)

  • Roth points out the ban has actually revitalized human cold calling by filtering out automated "junk" calls, making real outreach more effective:

    "It's actually stronger than ever now... AI actually kind of solidified a place in the world for cold calling." - Peter (04:00)

• Strategic, Targeted Outreach Is Essential

  • High-volume cold calling (up to 100,000 calls/day) is only cost-effective when approached "surgically"—targeting the right prospects, not spam-blasting the masses.
  • Data, good leads, skilled agents, and the right software are critical.

    "You should always take the surgical approach… If you’re a roofer or whatever business you’re in, think, or talk to ChatGPT." - Peter (05:40–06:21)

• Cold Email: Still Thriving and Cost-Effective

  • Sean shares personal success generating six figures a month through cold emails (using tools like Instantly, Apollo, and ListKit IO):

    “I could go to any major city and get 500 people in a room. No paid ads, all cold email.” - Sean (07:47)

  • Roth agrees on the importance of combining channels and high-quality data.

The Evolution of Lead Generation and Sales

• Back to Basics: The Comeback of "Old School" Tactics
  • As digital marketing becomes saturated and distrusted, there's a strong resurgence in traditional media (TV, radio, mailers) and direct outreach:

    "That's why mailers are now working again. People are like, ‘Oh, I haven't received a mailer in a long time…’" - Peter (15:38)

• Call Centers Remain Resilient
  • Despite digital trends and naysayers, call centers persist due to their ability to build trust and enable high-value conversations.

    "I totally disagree… [call centers are] a huge opportunity, I think, for companies." - Peter (16:17)

Home Services & Industry Insights

• Home Services ("Boring" Businesses) Are AI-Resistant
  • Sectors like HVAC, roofing, and plumbing are relatively safe from automation and AI disruption because they require skilled, in-person labor:

    "Home services are about as shielded as I suppose any industry can be." - Peter (22:25)

• Repeat Revenue Models vs. One-and-Done
  • HVAC enjoys repeat business due to ongoing servicing needs, but Roth warns this can lead to complacency.
  • Compare to roofing/solar, where “hustler” mentality is necessary due to one-off sales.
• Fundraising and Charities as a New Avenue for Cold Outreach
  • Roth spots growing opportunities in helping nonprofits and charities with professional cold calling, leveraging their strong lead lists and operational discipline.

Personal Stories, Investments, and Resilience

• Business Wisdom: Stay Focused, Say No

  • Roth shares how, with maturity, he has become more selective and laser-focused on ventures with real seven-figure potential.
  • He turns down attractive offers to stay aligned with core strengths.

• Investment Philosophy

  • Roth and Sean warn against chasing quick wins in investing (‘home runs’), highlighting lessons from personal losses in crypto and sports cards.
  • Best returns come from investing in yourself and your business:

    "You're never going to get a better return on your investment than... Think of you." - Peter (41:02) "Just keep putting money into you." - Sean (41:17)

• Failure as a Rite of Passage

  • Both recount significant failures (Sean’s crypto and sports cards crashes, Peter’s “catastrophic” business loss), crediting them as pivotal to later success.

    "I came back 10 times more successful from that one event." - Peter (47:36) "I've never met an entrepreneur that didn't have some similar story…" - Sean (48:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI and Cold Calling:
  "If they were to legalize [AI cold calling], your phone... cell phone tires will be on fire. You know, there'd be so many calls coming." - Peter Roth (03:30)
• On Modern Marketing:
  "Now we're seeing a big resurgence in traditional media coming back… Because that's what happens when you ignore something for a long time." - Peter Roth (15:07)
• On Resilience:
  "I had that realization and I’m super thankful. And I came back, I came back 10 times more successful from that one event than I ever would have." - Peter Roth (47:36)
• On Where to Invest:
  "Nothing will ever out produce yourself… Focus on yourself as your primary source of income, and then everything else is just wealth preservation." - Peter Roth (43:00)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:59 / 11:01 / 11:37 – The primacy of relationships and core sales philosophy
• 02:43 / 04:00 / 04:12 – Legislation banning AI cold calls and its impact on the industry
• 05:40 – The importance of strategic, targeted outreach ("surgical" vs. "shotgun" approach)
• 07:47–08:30 – Cold email strategies; building events and podcast guest lists without ads
• 13:18–16:03 – Solar’s reputation problem; rebirth of traditional marketing channels
• 16:17 – Defense of call centers as an outreach method
• 17:42–20:35 – Client retention vs. one-time sales in home services
• 22:25 – AI disruption in various industries; home services as a stronghold
• 41:00–43:15 – Best ROI: investing in yourself and your business
• 44:00–46:11 – Stories of losing money in risky asset classes and the importance of learning from loss
• 47:36 – Rebounding from catastrophic business failure
• 49:09 / 49:57–51:10 – Lessons from starting a business during recessions; cycles of economic challenge

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Final Takeaways & Practical Advice

• For Entrepreneurs: Focus on relationships and real value; avoid shiny object syndrome; prioritize selectivity with collaborations and investments.
• For Sales Pros: Cold calling is alive and thriving as long as it is targeted and offers real value. Combine cold calls with emails and leverage high-quality data.
• For Investors: Never gamble with what you can't afford to lose. Your best investment will always be in personal growth and your own ventures.
• For Business Owners: Prepare for economic downturns by playing the "long game," continually investing in yourself, and rooting your business in resilient, "boring" fundamentals.

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Where to Find Peter Roth

Peter helps companies in home services and beyond build effective call centers and sales outreach. To learn more or work with Peter, reach him via [his Instagram as linked in the show notes].

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A candid, motivating episode showing that old-school approaches—done right—are not only relevant but essential in today's crowded, AI-infused business landscape.

Transcript

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[Peter Roth]

I always say the same thing. Relationships are number one. If you go through life where the relationship is the most important thing, the money will always follow suit. Yeah, people will throw money at you if you bring them more. How hard is that? If I make you more than I charge you, you'll never stop giving me money.

[Host]

So just provide a good value.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, there you go.

[Host]

Try to get a service.

[Peter Roth]

That's the basis.

[Host]

People overthink it.

[Peter Roth]

That's the basis of a sale. Sale is like value exceeds price. A sale is made. That's it.

[Host]

Yeah. If you can help people make more money, it's always the easiest thing to sell. Right. Because your numbers will talk for themselves, your history will speak. But people focus on the wrong things. I think.

[Peter Roth]

Well, I think when you're younger, you generally tend to do that. Right. Because you need the money real bad. Maybe it is coming from a place of privilege and, or just maybe accomplishment where when you're younger, you don't have the fortune of being there yet necessarily. And so you're still. You have to put food on the table. And desperate people do desperate things and unfortunately, they're generally not good. And so when you resort to desperate measures, then we all know where that leads you. So then you get to the point in your life where you've already built those relationships and you're not chasing money anymore because you're already living somewhat comfortably. Now you can really just focus on the core value of what makes you a good human, which is just being a Good goddamn human. Just don't be a. Yeah.

[Host]

All right, guys, back in the studio. We got Peter Roth here today. He owns a call center. So we're going to talk about cold calling and what's new in the call center business. Man, how's it going?

[Peter Roth]

I'm doing really good, man. How about you?

[Host]

Yeah. Your team take a lot of calls today?

[Peter Roth]

Probably 50 or 100,000, I'm guessing.

[Host]

Damn. Not many.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

Holy crap. So it's volume.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, when we've got probably. I don't even. I lost count. Hundreds of. Of agents now spread out throughout our call centers.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

You haven't replaced them with AI yet.

[Peter Roth]

You can't.

[Host]

Oh, legally?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, you legally can.

[Host]

Oh, I didn't know they already operate.

[Peter Roth]

In some third world country.

[Host]

I didn't know they already introduced legislator on that.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, yeah. TCPA banned that in February of 2024. Wow. You can't use AI to. For cold calling.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Roth]

You can use it like once you've got. Once you got opt in. Yeah, it's like if someone already, you know, agreed to get your messaging or whatever.

[Host]

Yeah, that.

[Peter Roth]

That's cool.

[Host]

You can.

[Peter Roth]

You and you should do that then. I'm pro AI, by the way. I'm not like anti. I'm super pro. But yeah, you just can't use it for, like, cold calling and stuff like that.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. If you want people out there, like, you know, army of. An army of phone calls going out there booking appointments for whatever business you're in. Yeah, you're still. You're stuck with humans.

[Host]

It's.

[Peter Roth]

And it's a good thing.

[Host]

I feel like some of the voicemails I get are. Are from AI, though.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I bet. No, I'm. People are flagrantly breaking laws every day. I mean, I don't think there's anything new. I'm not shocking anybody with that. Right. But like, yeah, that happens all the time. But yeah, I mean, FCC is cracking down on it hard.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Well, they have to because it's. You know, I mean, I joke about this on every podcast I ever go on, but it's like, if they were to legalize that your phone right now, would there be, like, smoke coming? Cell phone tires will be on fire. You know, there'd be so many calls coming.

[Host]

Dude, I will never sign up for a business funding offer ever again. I get 10 voicemails a day.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, yeah. And you can't get off of it.

[Host]

You can't even when you block them, they got a new number.

[Peter Roth]

It doesn't they call from a different number of time. It makes no difference.

[Host]

Cuz you could buy a number for what, like super cheap?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. They'll find that one too.

[Host]

Yeah, they're just cycling through them, right?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Crazy.

[Peter Roth]

But no, that's a really good thing that they banned AI because a lot of people, like a common misconception is that people think like, you know, it's cold calling dead, you know, and that's a huge misconception because it's actually stronger than ever now.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

Because of AI. AI actually kind of like solidified a place in the world for cold calling. Because. Because they've banned AI, it means now they're reducing the amount of junk and noise that's coming through to your phone. Because if they were to open it up, well then could you imagine the amount of garbage. Oh my God, just enough garbage you get now. Right. Could you imagine the sheer amount of garbage you'd get then?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Right. So like, because they took those measures and have blocked that garbage and that noise from coming through now, it leaves room for like legitimate companies to actually stall cold call homeowners and businesses or whatever and actually present them with legitimate offer. So if you're in that type of business, good for you. You can actually still operate because there is still room in the world for, for legitimate, you know, honest cold calling.

[Host]

It's a great point because I probably take an hour a day in my email just sending shit to spam or deleting.

[Peter Roth]

Don't even, don't. You're giving me like PTSD cleaning my email every morning.

[Host]

I get like at least 50.

[Peter Roth]

That's the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning because like I have to like reduce stress, anxiety. So the first thing I do is get rid of all the junk.

[Host]

Yeah, same here with the same. Yeah, it's not. So I hope, my point being is I hope calls don't get to that point ever.

[Peter Roth]

Well, that's. And that's what, that's my point. Right. Is like, as long as they don't change, which I don't see why they would, then there is still a place in this world, or at least in this country.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Honest businesses to keep, to keep that method of outreach.

[Host]

Yeah. So is the cold calling, because you mentioned you're doing like 100,000 calls a day, is that pretty strategic outreach or are you just going for, for the masses on that?

[Peter Roth]

No, no, it's always strategic. I mean, you can, I guess theoretically take the shotgun approach, but we're far more surgical than that. And as anyone should be. Like, if anyone is listening to this right now and they're contemplating, like, hey, maybe I want to build my own call center. I mean, you should try. That's always a good idea. But, yes, you should always take, like, the more surgical approach. Just, you know, blasting, just, you know, doing the whole, like, you know, throwing and see what sticks to the wall methodology. It can work, but you'll burn through a lot of money real fast.

[Host]

Yes.

[Peter Roth]

I mean, data ain't cheap. Not that phone numbers aren't free. Agents aren't free. You know, software isn't free.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Everything costs money. So, yeah, yeah, you'll. You'll burn through your budget real fast.

[Host]

Are you buying, like, dataless a lot? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Same here.

[Peter Roth]

But you have to be really, like I said, you got to be surgical. Like, you have to be careful and thoughtful. It's like, who am I going to reach out to? I'm just going to call everybody in the city of Las Vegas or Denver or wherever. You're like, don't just call everybody, like, be. Be thoughtful. Like, so if you're a roofer or whatever, like, whatever business you're in, think, you know, or talk to Chat GPT. Right. Like, you don't. You don't even need me. Talk to Chat GPT and, like, ask it, like, you know, who should I be filtering for? Like, what type of homeowners should I be calling or whatever your audience is.

[Host]

Yeah, I might have to try the cold calls. Cold emails work really well for me.

[Peter Roth]

Do they really?

[Host]

Yeah, I'm generating six figures a month just off cold email.

[Peter Roth]

That's outstanding. I love to hear that. And it's. And it's legal, so.

[Host]

I mean, it's legal. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Why the hell not? But you just need good quality.

[Host]

You need good leads.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, you need good leads and you need people who know how to do it. Right.

[Host]

Good closers.

[Peter Roth]

You need good closers, but you also need, like, people who can run the software for you. I'm assuming you don't do it yourself. Right?

[Host]

You got. I know how to do it, but yeah, I got people helping me. There's like. There's actually pretty cheap software these days we use instantly.

[Peter Roth]

Instantly.

[Host]

Yeah, for sure. Does instantly do calls or. No.

[Peter Roth]

No.

[Host]

Oh, they don't. So that's a separate software. Yeah, they're good for email, though. They even warm up your emails so you don't go to spam. You know, I've seen that. Yeah. So shout out to them. They don't even sponsor. I just genuinely find value in their service.

[Peter Roth]

That's good. Yeah, we were going to look into that and I don't know why I didn't, but now you kind of got me.

[Host]

I mean, you're doing calls, you might as well do emails.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, it's way more, you know, cost effective.

[Host]

Oh, way cheaper. Yeah. You could buy a good email list for like a couple hundred bucks. I don't know how much phone numbers cost, but.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a, that's a great idea.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And what are you selling through that?

[Host]

Like, so I have in person events so I can fill up. It's really cool. Like I could go to any major city and get 500 people in a room. No paid ads, all cold email.

[Peter Roth]

That's really.

[Host]

Yeah, I've done it 20 times. A lot of people can't even fill up an event in their own town. But like I can go to Miami, I could go to New York, Louisiana, Texas.

[Peter Roth]

And it's your own event.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Doing your own event.

[Host]

Yeah. No sponsors, all self funded. No. No speakers.

[Peter Roth]

That's really smart.

[Host]

Yeah, so I, I do that for cold email sometimes I'll do it for the podcast if I'm in a certain city. So if I'm filming in like Miami, I'll email entrepreneurs that are making 10 mil plus a year in revenue to come on the show. So I'll send that blast out, get fill up guests for three days straight, you know, in and out.

[Peter Roth]

That's so smart.

[Host]

Yeah, that's. You could get really targeted with it. You could do job titles, revenue, the number of employees.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, we tinker around with like Apollo and stuff like that.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, Apollo's decent. I use that one too.

[Peter Roth]

What else do you do?

[Host]

The best list 1. I don't know if they sell them. I think they do sell numbers. Is list Kit IO because they triple verify their leads.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

They've. And I test like open rates and stuff. I've tested Apollo instantly. We're getting really nerdy right now. Yeah, Barely anyone's gonna understand. But it's fine, it's fine. I love nerding out. And list kit has the best open rates.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, that's great. Yeah. Okay. You'll have to. We have to.

[Host]

We'll talk out there. Yeah, sure.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

But what's the main offer you're pushing now? I'm sure you got a ton of good stories selling cold call offers.

[Peter Roth]

You know, I don't. Well, the funny thing is like now I'm So targeted now, you know, maybe just because I was about to say I'm 49, but that ended like three days ago.

[Host]

50. Damn.

[Peter Roth]

RIP 40s.

[Host]

You're in Vegas.

[Peter Roth]

So RIP 40s. Yeah, yeah, they just turned 50. So no, now I'm like super, you know, back to the surgical reference. Now I'm really surgical with what I do. I used to have shiny object syndrome. I think like every other. Every guy, every entrepreneur has shiny objects. And I've had to. I've had to. Maybe it's maybe watching too much horosi or something. Like, like really, really just retargeting and just really focusing on the thing that I do best now. And so I turn down offers all the time. You know, I've got people who come, you know, to me with really, really great business ideas, but I literally have to just reject.

[Host]

I'm the same way. Because if it's not going to bring in seven figures, I mean, why dedicate the time and effort?

[Peter Roth]

Totally, totally, totally agree with you. You. If it doesn't have that potential, then why even waste a single minute? You know, I. I look at everything like I look at as a marriage now pretty much. So for every relationship, every business venture, everything has to have like basically a 100 year lifespan.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So, yeah, same thing. But yeah. So now I don't do crazy offers. I don't do crazy anything. I just do one thing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Just, you know, I talk to companies who can see the benefit of, you know, having a call center built out for them and can get their sales reps into homes or in, you know, in meetings with company owners or whoever they want to be talking to.

[Host]

Got it. Yeah. I think holding mail would crush for you, dude.

[Peter Roth]

Probably.

[Host]

I think you can land a lot of clients because you already have the track record, which is the tough part. You built the business out. You got proven companies you've worked with. Y. You know, that's the hard part. The email part's easy.

[Peter Roth]

Yep, yep, you're absolutely right.

[Host]

Yeah, definitely run that up. So you basically approach these companies and you help them build a call center so they could sell their services more.

[Peter Roth]

I don't even approach them. They come to me word of mouth. Some would, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mostly just word. Oh, and you know, talking to guys like you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

You know, so I mean, thankfully now I'm in a place where I don't really have to do too much advertising really anymore. I do very, very little of it. So now, you know, most people just kind of tend to find me through the usual Channels and through reputation and through treating people right and, you know, not screwing up too bad here. You know, just. You know, just treat people right and be committed to their success. You know, I always say the same thing. Relationships are number one. Right. Like, if you go through life where the relationship is the most important thing, the money will always follow suit. Yeah, right. People will throw money at you if you bring them more money. Right. How hard is that? All right. If I make you more than I charge you, you'll never stop giving me money.

[Host]

Yeah. So just provide a good value.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, there you go.

[Host]

Try to get a service.

[Peter Roth]

That's the basis.

[Host]

People overthink it.

[Peter Roth]

That's the basis of a sale. A sale is like, if value exceeds price, a sale is made.

[Host]

Yep, that's it. Yeah. If you can help people make more money, it's always the easiest thing to sell. Yeah. Right. Because your numbers will talk for themselves. Your. Your history will speak. Yeah, I agree, but people focus on the wrong things, I think.

[Peter Roth]

Well, I think when you're younger, you generally tend to do that. Right. Because you need the money real bad. And, you know, I think maybe this comes from a place of. I don't want to say privilege, but maybe that's the best way to put it. But, like, maybe it is coming from a place of privilege and. Or just maybe accomplishment, where when you're younger, you don't have the fortune of being there yet, necessarily. And so you're still. You have to put food on the table. And desperate people do desperate things, and unfortunately, they're generally not good.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

And so when you resort to desperate measures, then we all know where that leads you. So then you get to the point in your life where you've already built those relationships and you're not chasing money anymore because you're already living somewhat comfortably now. You can really just focus on the core value of what makes you a good human, which is just being a good goddamn human. Just don't be a dick. Right. And everything will be basically fine for sure.

[Host]

When did this start taking off for you? Have you been in the call center industry for a while?

[Peter Roth]

Not selling them the way that I do now? So I got into the call center space kind of by accident. I sort of fell into it because I was running a sales. A large sales organization in the world of solar. Rip Solar.

[Host]

Yeah, that was. That was a bubble, huh?

[Peter Roth]

I mean, it's. It's still there, but it's. It's definitely. It's. It's.

[Host]

There's only so many roofs in the Roofs in the world, right?

[Peter Roth]

Well, no, there's. Well the funny thing is that's not the problem. It's not, it's not the market.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Peter Roth]

Problem? It's the, it's the value. It's the, it's the percept. I was on stage in Austin last week and I was talking to a room full of people and I go, you know how many people here, it was a home services based event and I said, how many people by show of hands here are in solar? And quite a few people. And so they raised their hand. I was like, so you guys will know exactly what I mean when I say this. But I go, if I was standing, if I was sitting in a room full 100 random people, not business owners, just random people. And I, it was kind of one of those free flowing, conscious. What's that term where you just, I say a word and then you say word back. What's that? You know what I mean?

[Host]

I know what you're talking about.

[Peter Roth]

Right. So if I said the word solar, there's a really strong chance about a third of you people in this audience right now would be like, solar is a scam. Right. It's like a third of the audience would yell back now if I did the same thing and I just said air conditioning, ain't no one going to be like air conditioning.

[Host]

No, I know a single. Right.

[Peter Roth]

There's your problem, there's your problem with your industry right there.

[Host]

The bias.

[Peter Roth]

You guys, you guys screwed it for yourselves. Now you get the delaying it, you.

[Host]

Know, because they over promised like, oh.

[Peter Roth]

They did all kinds of, There was all kinds of scammy going on.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So I mean I could talk about it for all day, but there was all kinds of scammy going on. So I, I still do work with a lot of solar companies, just not as many anymore. So now I work, you know, I love home services. That's just kind of an industry that I sort of fell into by.

[Host]

Roofing's a good one.

[Peter Roth]

Roofing is great. I like H Vac. H Vac is my favorite maybe because I'm partial to. Because I used to own an H Vac company for a long time. Also a crazy story. But so, you know, now these companies just kind of find me, you know, because I talk to a lot of them on a daily basis and they all want to be in more homes and they all want to talk to more homeowners and they all want more business and they all don't think about call centers. Yeah, this is kind of a new thing.

[Host]

Yeah. It's not like the sexy lead gen method. Right. They want to be, they want to be running ads and doing like. Yeah, videos.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Everyone still thinks about digital media, you know, is their primary source of marketing, which is great. I'm not, I'm not anti digital, anti digital marketing. I'm all for it too. But like, I think that's, you know, like now we're seeing a big resurgence in, in traditional media coming back, you know, tv, radio, mailers, all that kind of stuff. Because that's what happens when you ignore something for a long time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

It starts working again because it's, it's no longer saturated with a bunch of scammy offers. So now it becomes once again revived with energy and is now now a viable resource.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So that's why mailers are now working again because people are like actually open and like, oh, I haven't received a mailer in a long time. Let me actually open this one.

[Host]

You know, I do open a lot of mailers actually.

[Peter Roth]

Isn't that interesting? But 20 years ago you probably didn't know. 15, 20 years ago you would, you know, it was piled up because that's what all everyone did.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. They're getting good at making them appealing too.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. But now the equivalent is Facebook ads.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Right now that's the equivalent of a mailer. So it's like, isn't that interesting how the tables have turned, learned?

[Host]

Yeah. Right.

[Peter Roth]

Like now it's Facebook ads because those are super saturated and with a ton of scammy offers. So now people aren't paying attention to that. So now they're back to the old school stuff.

[Host]

Call centers have been trued and tested, I feel like, for sure, you know, for a long time.

[Peter Roth]

Right? For sure.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

They'll never even, you know, like Ryan Panetta. Love you, by the way. Even like Ryan Panetta's like anti call centers and I'd love to, I'll chat with you one day, you know, but he's, you know, he thinks it's a dying art, you know, he thinks it's a dying channel. And I, you know, totally disagree. But yeah, there's, there's, there's a huge opportunity, I think, for companies, you know, or it's actually, you know, we work with like fundraiser, you know, like a lot of fundraisers and charities and stuff like that. And that's a huge new area that we're about to crank into, is kind of the whole charity side of thing and fundraising smart. Because it's the same Thing. Right. It's just.

[Host]

They need more donors.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

Just cold outreach.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And again, they're not used to it. So once what was old is now new again. So now there's a huge opportunity in that space.

[Host]

That's smart. And they got massive lead lists too, I bet.

[Peter Roth]

And they're really good at that kind of stuff. They already. Oh, yeah, they already have that.

[Host]

Dude, I donated, wants to, like save the children. Not to put them on blast, but I got a mailer. I get texts, I get emails. Yeah. Like once a week at least.

[Peter Roth]

Isn't it interesting how good of a business they run, though? Can you imagine, like, if most businesses ran a business like that where everything was so methodical and so well thought through. Through, like as soon as someone became a client or a donor or whatever that they immediately became enrolled in this chain of events.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And isn't that interesting how so, how amazingly skilled they are at it, even though they're technically not for profit.

[Host]

Yeah, it is very. You got to appreciate that because it's hard to gain a client, but to keep them, you know, of course it's even harder.

[Peter Roth]

Of course.

[Host]

Yeah. So you want to make them happy and to do that over decades is.

[Peter Roth]

And that's. It's interesting you brought that up, the whole thing, because that's what I'm seeing, like, in the H Vac space. I don't want to keep, you know, drooling about H Vac, but, like, that's one thing that I noticed about H Vac, where those guys tend to ride on their laurels a lot because H Vac is a little bit unique as opposed to like a lot of other business types, even just. Even within the home services space. So, like, anyone who's watching this stuff, like you're in roofing or you're in solar or business like that, where it's a. Where your lifetime value of your client is kind of like a one and done thing. Pay attention because you're probably are going to agree with me on this that you always are struggling because you always need a new client like you. You always need to replace your clients with a new one because as soon as they buy from you, they're done.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

They've already made their once in a lifetime purchase from you. Because how many roofs are you going to buy in your life?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

How many times are you going to get solar in your life? Right. It's a one and done shout out.

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[Host]

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[Host]

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[Sponsor Voice 2]

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[Host]

Feel as good as they look.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

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[Peter Roth]

H Vac companies are like that. They have a very large pipeline of existing clients whose always breaks. Smart. Right. So for them it's easy. In other words, they're also kind of a spoiled because they don't really have to go out and get new, drum up new business all the time because they could theoretically just survive on their existing book of business.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

But therein lies the problem because then.

[Host]

They get lazy, they get complacent.

[Peter Roth]

They get complacent?

[Host]

Yeah, because you got to replace your unit every 10 years and you probably have to repair it like five times. Right. In between.

[Peter Roth]

But that's what's so interesting about like the solar guys and the roofing guys is they're hustlers. You know, they got that hustler mentality because they have to, because it's a one and done thing. So they got to go get a new customer every damn day if they want to. They want to eat. So they bring a unique skill set to the table. Whereas, like these H Vac guys tend to get a little bit complacent. And so I like opening up their eyes. I like showing them like, hey, I'm, I'm glad you guys are doing well. I mean, good for you. Kudos. But like, do you realize how much money you're leaving? Yeah, like how much more business you could be doing?

[Host]

Damn.

[Peter Roth]

If you just adopted this different mentality of like sink or swim.

[Host]

Yeah, you're making me want to get in the H Vac business.

[Peter Roth]

It's, it's, it's a really good.

[Host]

I think with the rise of AI it's heading back towards brick and mortar, like blue collar work.

[Peter Roth]

You know, I was talking with Bradley about this very same subject exactly one month ago. That was literally the nature of most of our podcasts.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Peter Roth]

About how, like, AI is obviously taking over most of the world, but how it's also protecting and kind of sheltering certain corners of it, which very. You go back and you read the comments on our podcast was all sorts of people just blasting and going, what are you talking about? In China, there's a robot for this and a robot for that. And yes, you know, Flamer guy on. I get it. I. I agree with you. There are, of course, robots that can do all kinds of stuff, but, like, let's also be realistic about this sort of thing. Like, you know, when is it realistic? When a robot will come into your house and replace a complex machine, like an H VAC system? Like, 20 years, bare minimum. I mean, who knows? Yeah, who knows? It may be with the rise of, like, actual autonomous robots, like, fully autonomous robots. Fine, I'll give it to you then. But you know what? When that happens, we're all right. Like, we're all. We're not gonna be having this conversation. We're gonna be having a very different kind of a conversation from a bunker.

[Host]

I mean, I'm already preparing, and I think podcasts will be one of the last to go, but I still think it's a threat because I'm listening to AI Joe Rogan episodes with him interviewing dead people, and it's damn good. It's nuts. Like, most people cannot tell. That's AI.

[Peter Roth]

I know, it's creepy.

[Host]

Yeah, it's creepy for sure. I get videos every day now. When I'm scrolling, I have to literally zoom in. It's not good now.

[Peter Roth]

And that's today. Like, what's even six months or a year from now? That's it. You won't be able to do anything. You won't be able to differentiate at all. But, yeah, that's. But the point of this conversation is, like, home services are, you know, about as shielded as I suppose any industry can be.

[Host]

Yeah. Compared to other stuff, I'd say they're. Yeah, they're sitting well. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I mean, lawyers, for sure.

[Host]

Oh, they're done.

[Peter Roth]

Scary.

[Host]

No, they're done. I talk to lawyers at least weekly about this, and they don't hire paralegals anymore.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

They just use AI.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, but what about. What. It's coming. I mean, like, Jesus, how many. How many things have I gone to for chat? Gbd? How many Things have you you gone to.

[Host]

I just put my blood work in yesterday. I mean I'm getting health advice now, so I don't need doctors. I get legal advice now. Yeah, I. I would only need a lawyer if I have to go to actual trial, I think pretty much. You know what I mean? Otherwise I think I'm pretty good.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, pretty. I agree with you. So yeah, home services companies I think are in a unique position where like I said, until we have fully autonomous robots, which I don't think is going to be anytime in the near next. Probably not in the next. Least for another 20 years or so.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

But yeah, so I mean here we are.

[Host]

Drivers are done. There's already in Vegas. They're spreading everywhere now. These self driving cars.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, my first. Who just like Wayo.

[Host]

Yeah. And Luke is another one.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

It's like the square one. I don't know if you've seen that one. Yeah, yeah. Drivers are done.

[Peter Roth]

That's. It's like one of my most watched Tik Tok videos.

[Host]

Oh really?

[Peter Roth]

Me getting into a wayo.

[Host]

Yeah, I got in one in San Fran and I. It was weird.

[Peter Roth]

It was super weird.

[Host]

It was weird.

[Peter Roth]

But I was a little nervous.

[Host]

I'm like, yeah, that's the future though.

[Peter Roth]

Quite nervous.

[Host]

I mean, to be honest, it's probably safer than an Uber though.

[Peter Roth]

Well, you know, it's. Well, yeah, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure you're right. But did you see that video of some random way. I don't remember where I was in the country. This is just like two weeks ago of some waymo like wandering around a golf course.

[Host]

No way.

[Peter Roth]

Totally got screwed. Totally just got lost on a golf course. Wow. Just like just doing 20 point, 20.

[Host]

Point turns on someone might have green.

[Peter Roth]

That's hilarious.

[Host]

There was one where some guy got stuck. It was doing like a loop. He had to call them and have to manually shut off the car. Which it's kind of creepy that they could do that too.

[Peter Roth]

But.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Well I. I actually did hear that they do have a team of people who are monitoring like you know, hundreds of them at the same time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Just in case something goes haywire.

[Host]

Yeah, I would hope planes will be. Yeah, planes will be next.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. That's freaky. But no, it makes perfect sense. I mean because we have unmanned drones doing everything.

[Host]

I mean what's the difference? Yeah. Most of the flights I've talked to pilots are. Most of the flight is already autopilot for sure. They're just there to make sure doesn't go wrong. But yeah, dude, futures here, having kids now, you got to really prepare them to learn some skills that can't be replaced easily.

[Peter Roth]

I know. Like, I've got a daughter who's in college right now and I'm having to have this conversation with her on a regular basis. Like, be careful with what you do because I mean, it's coming for you.

[Host]

What is she majoring in?

[Peter Roth]

Well, now she's in marketing.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Roth]

She's in market.

[Host]

That's going to be hard to replace that.

[Peter Roth]

I. Well, actually, I don't know. I mean, I could go on. Depends what, you know, what aspect of it.

[Host]

Yeah, like, I went on ChatGPT and got marketing advice for the podcast and.

[Peter Roth]

It was pretty good.

[Host]

It's. It was pretty solid.

[Peter Roth]

It's. Look, I, you know, I follow quite a few, you know, pretty high level business coaches and I think the ones who are honest, the ones who aren't just looking for a quick buck, they will come out and just straight up come out and say now it's like, hey, you don't need a coach anymore. Just get the pro level chat GPT.

[Host]

Yep.

[Peter Roth]

And just start talking on a regular basis.

[Host]

It's that good. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And just tell it what you really are trying to accomplish and just say, act like a high level business coach. Y there. The honest ones will say it. You really don't need to be giving us your money anymore.

[Host]

I just saw Ryan Stuman talk about this.

[Peter Roth]

Bingo.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Hi, Ryan. Yep, that's exactly.

[Host]

He said he paid not to put them on blast, but he paid Patrick by David and Dan Martel for coaching.

[Peter Roth]

That's right. We saw the same post.

[Host]

Yeah. He said AI was 10 times better.

[Peter Roth]

That's right. Well, there you go.

[Host]

And those are two of the top business guys in the space.

[Peter Roth]

That's right. So. Yep.

[Host]

Yeah. I guess with marketing you got to really niche down. Niche down and figure out how you can kind of do that. Yep.

[Peter Roth]

But that's so funny.

[Host]

Yep.

[Peter Roth]

We read the exact same post.

[Host]

That's exactly where I tried going to Rutgers for marketing.

[Peter Roth]

You tried what?

[Host]

Going to Rutgers for marketing. When I was in college, I didn't make it.

[Peter Roth]

I went to Syracuse.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Good old Syracuse. You guys had a good basketball team.

[Peter Roth]

I don't watch sports at all.

[Host]

Oh, you don't know.

[Peter Roth]

It's so. I was such like an alien and an alien planet when I was there because I was like the only. I was like this like good little Jewish boy. I actually wore yamaka.

[Host]

Oh, you Wore the thing for the first year. Dude, I will never forget. I played a basketball team and they all had them. During the games, I was like, what is this? I never saw that growing up.

[Peter Roth]

Like, Yeshiva university or something.

[Host]

Because Jewish. It was. I don't know.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I can't imagine who else.

[Host]

They all walked in unison. It was. It was impressive.

[Peter Roth]

That's fun.

[Host]

It was really impressive. I'll never forget that.

[Peter Roth]

But, yeah, dude, I was, needless to say, not the popular one.

[Host]

Yeah. Huge introvert.

[Peter Roth]

No, not at all. It was just, like, I came from. My parents thought I was, you know, not doing well in high school when I was a kid, and so they sent me to this, like, little private Jewish high school, and as a result of, you know, dating some Jewish girl inevitably just rubbed off on me. So now I became, you know, a very. A very observant Jew.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

I just didn't last very long. Yeah.

[Host]

Damn.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you were a little rebellious growing up, huh?

[Peter Roth]

No, I wasn't bad.

[Host]

No.

[Peter Roth]

Honestly, God. I mean, compared to kids now. Jesus. Oh, man, I was like a saint.

[Host]

Don't get me started.

[Peter Roth]

No, I mean, I was like. Other than, I think breaking into a few cars and smoking some weed, I was. I realized that first one makes me probably sound pretty bad. Yeah. But other than that, no, I didn't really do anything all that bad.

[Host]

Yeah. So I used to smoke with one head, looking this way. It was illegal in Jersey, of course.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, that's for me.

[Host]

Yeah. I had so much paranoia smoking weed in Jersey. Now it's legal. Times have changed, man.

[Peter Roth]

Well, I'm from Colorado. It's like we kind of.

[Host]

You were the first state, like, led.

[Peter Roth]

The change for that.

[Host]

I used to fly there just so I could feel safe smoking.

[Peter Roth]

Are you serious?

[Host]

Dead ass. Because when you're. No, I don't. I don't anymore. Now there's a lot of studies against it. Not to, like, scare you, but.

[Peter Roth]

No, I mean, good, because I don't.

[Host]

Yeah, no, you don't anymore.

[Peter Roth]

No, no, no, I'm not a fan.

[Host]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm actually not a fan. No, I. I used to fight with my mom about it, but she was right.

[Peter Roth]

Well, I just get lazy and tired and paranoid and hungry.

[Host]

Same, all of that.

[Peter Roth]

I'm like, I don't need help in any of those departments, you know? Like, I don't need any help eating more food. I don't need any help feeling lazy. I'm like, geez, I can just do that on my own. Yeah, I really don't need any assistance, man?

[Host]

Those late night munchies eating the worst food.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I'm cool. I'm all good.

[Host]

Plus, the is so strong now. Oh, my God.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, no kidding, man. Because, yeah, when I was a kid.

[Host]

It was like, it was bad.

[Peter Roth]

Not that big of a deal.

[Host]

You would barely get high.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, you can smoke on a whole joint now. It's like you take one hit and you're contemplating, like, whether going to the er. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Should I call an ambulance?

[Host]

I've eaten inedible. And I thought I was dying. I literally was calling people. Have you ever had an edible?

[Peter Roth]

Oh, yeah, a few times.

[Host]

Oh, my.

[Peter Roth]

I just. I just don't like any of that shit because I just hate the way it makes me feel.

[Host]

You're not in control anymore?

[Peter Roth]

No, I hate the way it makes me feel.

[Host]

Yeah. I don't even drink anymore.

[Peter Roth]

Really. I have stopped drinking almost. Almost entirely. But then again, I'm one of the few guys who openly says that he takes Ozempic, so I have no problem.

[Host]

At least you own it.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Host]

So you. Were you a lot heavier than you are now?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I probably lost almost 50 pounds.

[Host]

Holy. Yeah, you got to get out of the call center, man. You're sitting down all day.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, no, it's just genetics. That's just who I am. But, yo, I'm a huge fan. I'm like, hey, you know, for whatever. Whatever works for. Whatever works for you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

You know, some people are like, you know, you don't put in the work.

[Host]

I was like, do you lift? Are you active?

[Peter Roth]

I do. No, I do work. And the funny thing is, like, it's made me a healthier person because it. Because it gave me that boost. Right? Like, it. It kind of started pushing the momentum in the right direction. So, like, now I'm healthier than I was before.

[Host]

Nice.

[Peter Roth]

And, you know, whoever talks about it, it's like, I do whatever you want, but, like, I would much rather take whatever potential risks that may come out of it. Even though all they're finding is more and more health benefits, like, on a daily basis, it seems like they keep coming out.

[Host]

It's hard to argue with peptides.

[Peter Roth]

Well, peptides, too.

[Host]

Well, Ozempixapeptide. Yeah, it is.

[Peter Roth]

Yep. Yep. But, like, it seems like there's more. And in my mind, whatever benefits I get from having dropped 50 pounds way outweighs whatever risks may come associated with that.

[Host]

Makes sense, right?

[Peter Roth]

Like, because you cannot argue that being 50 pounds heavier is just a terrible idea. No matter how you cut it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Like, that's always just a terrible idea. Yeah. And then on top of that, it's completely destroyed my desire for alcohol.

[Host]

Really.

[Peter Roth]

So I. Not that I was, like, a huge drinker before, but I would probably drink two to three drinks a day.

[Host]

That's pretty.

[Peter Roth]

Without fail. Every single day now it's like two to three drinks a week.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Roth]

Once a week. If I go out with my wife, that's the only time I drink.

[Host]

That makes sense.

[Peter Roth]

She thinks I'm boring. I do love you, but, yeah, she thinks I'm boring now because I don't drink anymore.

[Host]

Oh, she's still pounding, huh? No, she's not.

[Peter Roth]

No, that makes her sound really bad. No, that's not true either. But no, she's like, you know, she still likes to, you know, have fun with me once in a while.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I just don't feel like drinking. You just like, you're boring.

[Host]

I was at a point where I couldn't have fun unless I was drunk when I was younger, so I know what you're talking about, you know?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I get it.

[Host]

But now I'm the sober guy, just drunk dding.

[Peter Roth]

So you're totally done with drinking?

[Host]

I'll drink. Like, I'll. I was just on my honeymoon. I had a drink, but I'm not blacking out anymore. You know what I mean?

[Peter Roth]

That much?

[Host]

Yeah. I used to go hard.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

Yeah. I was. Life at the party in high school.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

I was like. They called me tomato face because I'm allergic to alcohol, so you know how Asians get really red? Yeah. Yeah. That's an allergy to alcohol.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, okay.

[Host]

Yeah. So half of Chinese people, I think, have that gene break.

[Peter Roth]

Okay. I didn't even know you're Asian.

[Host]

Yeah. Half Chinese.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

Yeah. It's tough to tell with the curly hair and the height. Yeah, right?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[Host]

But, yeah, dude, I'm done. It's not worth the. How long.

[Peter Roth]

How. When did you stop?

[Host]

When did I actually stop? Stop? Probably like four or five years ago.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, it's been a while.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Do you miss it?

[Host]

No, not at all.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because the next day. Shot.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

You know.

[Peter Roth]

You know, you're young as hell. Can you.

[Host]

But that's. My generation's not drinking. Have you looked at the stats on this?

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I know.

[Host]

Yeah. Liquor companies are struggling.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I know that. Oh, that. That plus all the GLPs, you know, the weight loss, drugs. Yeah, because weight loss drugs, absolutely just crush. Like. I was just saying, they just crush Your taste for desire, for alcohol or really any drugs. Really?

[Host]

Most drugs, yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So you combine those things, you know, two things together. Like, I'm. No, I'm shocked. Shocked to see that bars are in business now. For real shock. They're not just shutting down.

[Host]

Well, I know they're struggling. Oh, yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I'm really thankful that it wasn't, you know, I was around before.

[Host]

You've worn a lot of hats this whole.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

What's been your favorite business to own other than the call center?

[Peter Roth]

I mean, the. The bar was fun. It's a bar. How can it not be fun?

[Host]

Sure. You got a lot of stories.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stories. I mean, it's a bar. Like, how could it not be fun?

[Host]

Yeah. Were there fights there every night?

[Peter Roth]

No, it was. It was a clean. It was a nice. It was a high end. It's like a cigar bar. It was a high end cigar bar.

[Host]

That's my type of scene. A cigar lounge, something like that. I don't like the crowded, like, younger crowd bars.

[Peter Roth]

It was like. What's that place in Resorts World?

[Host]

Oh, eight Lounge.

[Peter Roth]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah, that's my Saxene.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Calm.

[Peter Roth]

It was like that.

[Host]

High level people. Yep, yep.

[Peter Roth]

And then we had like DJs, like on Fridays, you know, but it was kind of like a lounge. It was a lounge scene.

[Host]

That makes sense.

[Peter Roth]

That's what it was like. Yeah. So, I mean, that was super fun, but from a business perspective, I'm so glad to be out of it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

It was not any.

[Host]

Brick and mortar is tough, right?

[Peter Roth]

Any. Well, there's that. And then it's like, you know, people who work at McDonald's, you know, they can't even like, handle the smell of fried foods anymore. Yeah, that's. That's me with like the smell of the back bar. Like, like smelling like a dishwasher. Our dishwasher. I gag. I like. I gag.

[Host]

Yeah, I'm sure that smelled terrible. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And it was a smoking bar. So like, then you combine the smell of like stale beer with ashtrays. Oh, am I making you hungry?

[Host]

Now I know why I don't see too many of those mixed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually it's just one or the other cigars.

[Peter Roth]

I was like the last cigar bar in the state of Colorado.

[Host]

Oh, wow. They got rid of them all.

[Peter Roth]

No, they didn't get rid of them all, but they just grandfathered them in. So you didn't exist before. God. Grandfather.

[Host]

Yeah. Because you need two different licenses.

[Peter Roth]

So now. Yeah, the liquor and the. And the cigar. So now they're just, you know, the couple that are left. That's it.

[Host]

Damn.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I don't know if I'd ever do brick and brick and mortar. There's too much logistics with it.

[Peter Roth]

It is. But I mean, now you see this like, huge, you know, this huge resurgence now with, you know, the Cody Sanchez is of the world and.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And even the, you know, the Hormozis of the world that are, you know, pushing and you know, the, you know, these guys who are pushing the, you know, boring business, you know, model, you know, which I agree, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, I think that there should be more attention paid to because everybody wants the sexy business. And like anything else, you know, when that gets saturated, well, you know, there, there goes that thing. But the boring business model, look, I mean, look, I'm in home services, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

That's about as boring as it gets. And I think it's just like, you know, it's a young thing.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

You know, people watch, you know, Shark Tank or whatever and they just see, they get inundated with that idea that it's not a real business unless I somehow become the sexy face of that business. It's not a real business unless if it makes me insta famous. Right.

[Host]

Yep.

[Peter Roth]

And the fact of the matter is, like, that accounts for like a very small.

[Host]

Yeah, that doesn't happen.

[Peter Roth]

It's a very, very small percentage of businesses that are like that. Most of them are really quite boring.

[Host]

And on Shark Tank, you're only seeing the highlights also.

[Peter Roth]

Well, you're only seeing the businesses that are TV worthy. Only seeing the businesses that those producers know will keep viewership.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

Interested.

[Host]

Because there's a lot of people that go on and it never airs.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, for sure. Because they're just too boring.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

You know, there's like, you're not going to see roofers on their companies on there. It's never going to happen. This is not. Not that exciting for tv.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So no, I think that's this. I think that people should be going back, you know, look, from a business owner's perspective, like you just said, you know, there's a lot of problems obviously with brick and mortar built, you know, businesses. Right. Just too many buttons to push and levers to pull. I agree with that model, but not if you play your cards right. Like, you know, the whole, like laundromat model. Right. Like, there's plenty of people who are, you know, gazillionaires off of just running laundromats.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

What a cool business model. You know, like you do nothing. Like you don't have to step foot into your business almost or really ever.

[Host]

Yep.

[Peter Roth]

You know what? What? That's a great model. I mean, it's as unsexy as it gets.

[Host]

True. Yeah. There's people that own five McDonald's and they're making million a year.

[Peter Roth]

Sure.

[Host]

You know?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, for sure. There's. I was, Remember who I was talking to just last week? Guy who owns like 80 something McDonald's. He's never stepped foot into any one of them.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

No, he's never st. That's crazy.

[Host]

Not one of them. Yeah, I, I'm of the belief, like I ran boring businesses to initially build my capital. You know, I did E. Commerce drop shipping. Boring stuff. And don't, don't miss that too much. But I'm at the point now where I want to have fun and have purpose and meaning.

[Peter Roth]

Good. Well, look, I mean, ultimately a business can only succeed if you love what you do.

[Host]

Right?

[Peter Roth]

Right. I mean, if you're starting a business just for making a few bucks, I mean, good luck. Luck. That's really hard. It can happen. I think once you've reached a certain level of maturity in your life, that you're just coming at business from an investor approach. You know, once you're coming at businesses, just. I'm just here to put the money in and get the money out. And this is just a glorified ATM machine to me. But because you already have that skill set in place and you're not walking into this business totally unprepared, going, how do I run this?

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

I've never run a laundromat. That would be a huge problem. Right. But if you're coming at this from an investor approach because all you've already built your way up, you know, business acumen to that point in your life and you know the fundamentals of business and you know how to run them and you know how to delegate things, then by all means, then you can do whatever the hell you want. Right. The world's your oyster at that point. But if you're young, then I think it's a terrible idea if you're young. You have to start with what you love because you don't have the knowledge base. You still have to build up that knowledge base so that you can become one day that. Hands off.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. You gotta fail first.

[Peter Roth]

Who can just kind of throw money at things because he knows like this thing's going to work. Cool, let me throw some cash at that. And let me throw some cash at that and watch the dividends pay off.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

But that takes time to get to that point in your life.

[Host]

Yeah. It's tough to learn that just through.

[Peter Roth]

You can't. There's no books. You don't think so there's no books.

[Host]

How to invest or.

[Peter Roth]

No. There's no course or books. No. That takes. You have to fall down a hell of a lot. You have to fall down a lot. Or you have to be a savant. I mean, right. Sure. Maybe there's one or two, you know, business savants out there that have already understand that model, but I think you have to have been in the business world a long time and have failed.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Not saying bankruptcy. I'm not saying, you know, shut your doors and, you know, lose your house. I'm not saying that. But everyone fails. Right. I mean, that's the basis of really running any successful businesses. The failure that gets you to that point. You had to have failed so many times because with each failure comes a learning lesson. And coming out the other side healthy, you had to have. Have accrued enough of those failures in order to just be able to look at any business model. Go. I already know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to fall down. I know exactly what that fall is going to look like. I know how I'm going to get up. I know I'm going to fix it. And it'll be done in 24 hours and boom, I'll come out on the other side.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Cranking money out of this ATM machine.

[Host]

Yeah. Statistically, I think you're correct. Because hedge fund managers have not outperformed the S&P 500. I think 80% of them are reporting lower gains.

[Peter Roth]

That's right.

[Host]

And these are the best investors, quote, unquote.

[Peter Roth]

Right. Investors who have zero operational skill experience. Zero operational skill set. They come with a Harvard degree, but they don't actually know how to run a real business.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

They've read a lot of books.

[Host]

And then they take a fee of your gains when they get less than that.

[Peter Roth]

Well, there's a business, but that's their business. That is their business. Right. Their business is between the lines. That's their business. It's not operating the actual end, you know, it's not operating the actual business itself. It's. It's how to capture money in between. That's their business. And good for them.

[Host]

Yeah. What have been some of your favorite investments?

[Peter Roth]

I don't invest in anything but myself.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I don't I mean, that's not entirely true. I do now put money into like, I work with a couple real estate investors. You know, I kind of fund some of their projects.

[Host]

Private money lending.

[Peter Roth]

Private money lending.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Yep, exactly. That's really about the only area for the most part now where I'm really kind of deploying capital into something that isn't my own. Because where am I going to get the kind of returns that I can produce?

[Host]

Yeah. You're getting 15 on that, right? 15. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

PML. More than that.

[Host]

Really? Wow. They're giving you more than that.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Holy crap. Yeah. So they're fixing and flipping quick.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, well, just high volume.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Roth]

High volume with just quick need for cash.

[Host]

And that's still working right now, that strategy. Interesting.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because I thought the real estate market was toasted.

[Peter Roth]

Depends where you're operating. And you know, like, like right now they're just buying, you know, the buying properties with cash.

[Host]

It's a buyer's market right now. Right.

[Peter Roth]

They're using PMLs, you know, to buy. To buy these properties with cash. So it came down. But otherwise, no, I don't, I don't, I don't. You know, I mean, cheers to Ryan Stuman. I was just talking with him and I, we were just chatting about, you know, this exact subject about where to deploy capital.

[Host]

Yeah. Because he's been screwed. He's in like four FBI cases from his investments. Oh, well, I don't know if you knew that, but he's been posting about it.

[Peter Roth]

Maybe that's, maybe that's why he was sharing this information. Probably the exact, this exact same subject. And he was taught, you know, I was like, hey, what kind of things are you investing? And he's like, I don't touch now except for stocks.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'm like, wow, I can't blame him. He's lost millions investing in. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Peter Roth]

You get burned enough times and I've.

[Host]

Been burned a few times. I'm. I was not doing enough due diligence. So I'm just take accountability honestly. And I think that's important when you're investing in stuff, not to put the blame on other people for failing for sure. So. But it happens, right?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

We've all lost money on an investment.

[Peter Roth]

But to me, back, to answer your question, I think anyone who's listening to this, and if you're, you know, if ultimately all day long, I would still say there is. You're never going to get a better return on your investment than agreed 100 think of you.

[Host]

I'll buy books, I'll buy courses, whatever.

[Peter Roth]

Just keep putting money into you.

[Host]

Yeah. No one's always going to outperform you because your brain is what makes you.

[Peter Roth]

Money, because, I mean, you're going to always give yourself better returns all day long.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I mean, look at what you. Look at this empire that you built for yourself.

[Host]

Yeah. Invest in the equipment, invest in what's your roi.

[Peter Roth]

Every time you put a buck into this thing, it spits out what. I mean, I don't know if you've.

[Host]

Ever done the math, but it's crazy.

[Peter Roth]

Probably spits out 100, you know, for every dollar you put in or something close.

[Host]

Something close to that, probably. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Can you. You can't replicate that.

[Host]

No. And I spend 20 on a book. The ROI is actually insane.

[Peter Roth]

And, you know, I was actually listening to Hormozi about this, and it was another YouTube channel called the Hamptons, which is a very interesting channel.

[Host]

Is that Sam Parr's podcast or.

[Peter Roth]

No, I don't think so. It's a community for, like, founders.

[Host]

Yeah, that's Sam's community. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. There's. He's done some really, really interesting studies on this. But what they have found is that, generally speaking, once. Once business owners reach a certain level of wealth, they stop caring about producing more wealth. Because you reach a point where it's like, well, I have enough money now. I don't need to keep accruing more. Right now you get to the point where it's like, how do I just keep it? How do I just not put it at risk? Right. And I think that's where they also kind of realize, like, the best return on investment I ever got was myself. Now, if I'm going to try to. And this is where my comment on Hormozi comes in, because he also kind of parrots that same model where he's like, stop trying to look at other avenues to be your primary source of income, because your primary source of income will never. Nothing will ever out produce yourself. Instead, just keep your money safe and do exactly that. Keep it safe.

[Host]

Great advice. Keep it safe, because we try to.

[Peter Roth]

Treat our money, risking it. Stop trying to go for home runs. You know, you made a buck, now you're going to go take that buck and hand it over here and get another home run. And then while that's not working for you, you're going to put it over here and try to get another home run.

[Host]

Yep.

[Peter Roth]

And then you get screwed with one of those avenues. Instead of doing that, just focus on yourself as your primary source of income, and then everything else is just wealth preservation and that's it. So simplify.

[Host]

Great.

[Peter Roth]

And now you've opened up. And now you've opened up mental real estate to once again reinvest back into the bank of yourself.

[Host]

Yep. I've lost my money twice for the exact reason you're saying. Because I tried to apply my mindset to investing that I had in business.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

I went all in. That's my mindset. When I go on a business, I'm all in.

[Peter Roth]

Of course, you know, as you should be.

[Host]

Yeah. Because I'll put the risk all on myself because I'm betting on myself. But when it comes to investments, you can't really do that, you know? Yeah. So that's why I lost my money twice.

[Peter Roth]

So what was it? I'm curious, you know, what was it? Where. How did it happen?

[Host]

First time with sports cards, it was a boom in the market, like, probably five years ago, six years ago. I don't know if you saw that. Just overinvested, over leveraged, and I was buying the wrong cards and then lost it all. The market crashed and then built up my net worth back to 10 million with crypto. Lost all of it in crypto. Yeah, crypto crashed. I was investing in meme coins and risky coins. So the volatility on these coins, because they're all coins, you could go down 80, 90 in. In a day, sometimes hours. It's not like panic attack. Yeah, yeah. It's not.

[Peter Roth]

I would never put my. Like, could you imagine, like. You know, I'm assuming most people who are watching this are business owners. Yeah, for the most part. Like, anyone's watching this. Could you imagine, like, if your business crashed 90 in a day?

[Host]

That's crypto.

[Peter Roth]

I'd have to change my shorts. Right?

[Host]

Yeah. It's terrifying.

[Peter Roth]

But again, this proves the point. Like, once again, this proves the point that is almost can't happen. Right. If it's your own business, that almost can't happen because you have safeguards in place.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

And you know your business better than anything else, so you know that just can't happen. So isn't that creepy and crazy that, like, here you were deploying all this money into a particular channel that can just plummet like that? Now I can go the other direction, too.

[Host]

And it did at first.

[Peter Roth]

But isn't that just the definition of fucking gambling now?

[Host]

Crypto is gambling.

[Peter Roth]

Didn't we just define what gambling is?

[Host]

Yeah. Outside of the top 10 coins, crypto, I would say, is Gambling. If you're buying anything outside the top 10. Okay. Even, even some in the top 10.

[Peter Roth]

But you're heavy into bitcoin right now, aren't you?

[Host]

Ethereum. But I had a lot of bitcoin.

[Peter Roth]

I don't know shit about crypto, so, like, why? Because I've just stayed away.

[Host]

Bitcoin is a finite amount. There's 21 million coins never will be made again. And a lot of hedge funds and like VCs are getting into it. So it got up to 120,000 a coin this year.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Host]

It's at like 89 as we film this, but.

[Peter Roth]

So why ethereum? Why, why was that your avenue as.

[Host]

Opposed more, more risk, but more reward? I guess because it's not the same price like the market cap. Yeah. It's basically gambler. Yeah. Well, when I was younger. Yeah. Now I've, I've, I haven't bought anything new for years. I've just been sitting on what I have. Yeah. Because after you lose that amount of money, you're not going to be.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

But taking the same risks anymore.

[Peter Roth]

That's it.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

You. You go through a traumatic event, a PTSD type event like that.

[Host]

So as I get older, I don't chase those crazy gains anymore. I'm cool with like 10, 20 a year on stuff I invest in. Well, there you go, you know.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which isn't like sexy, but.

[Peter Roth]

Well, but then what? You can just go right back into real estate.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Right. And now you can be super, super safe.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

And you get all the tax benefits that come with it too. And all the multitude of other benefits too.

[Host]

Yeah. Especially now that I'm married and I want to have kids. If I were to lose everything, it's not just me anymore. So I can't just do that again. Ever do that again.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. But that's okay. I mean, you're supposed to take risks when you're young. That's.

[Host]

Yeah. Now I'm glad it happened. I needed it. I needed to wake up.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

[Host]

You needed it. I thought I was going to be a billionaire off crypto. I needed that humbling experience, you know that.

[Peter Roth]

Interesting.

[Host]

I thought I was going to be a centi millionaire. Off selling master in the pandemic. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

I mean, every failure and I've had, I mean, I had a failure that was borderline that I had my, you know, catastrophic failure not that long ago. For me it was like, it was about two and a half, two and a half years ago. And it was just one Terrible business decision that I made, which I didn't see coming. Now, of course, you know, to me.

[Host]

It'S like a, you know, hindsight.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. To me it's like a semi coming at me head on now with its brights on how I didn't see it, but. Well, there you go. But, yeah, I mean, I had that. I had that realization and I'm super thankful. And I came back. I came back 10 times more successful from that one event than I ever would have, I think, had I not had that.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Peter Roth]

That event put me through such. Not only. Not only was it traumatizing and so obviously there's, you know, huge lessons that came out as a result of that traumatization, but it forced me to buckle down and put aside all my pain and discomfort and buckle down and just say it. I'm gonna do whatever the it takes right now to fix this mess that I just got myself into. And I just buckle down like I never have before in my life. It's like, you know, it's like the stories that you hear from people who have just been quote, unquote, fuck ups their whole lives. Younger people, and they go to the military and that's where, you know, or they go to prison before they find Jesus. You know the classic story, I found Jesus went to prison in. Big surprise. Classic. That was my. That was my finding of my proverbial Jesus.

[Host]

Yeah, I think we all go through something like that.

[Peter Roth]

Sure. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I've never met an entrepreneur that didn't have some similar story to that.

[Peter Roth]

Really?

[Host]

I think it's like a rite of passage, honestly.

[Peter Roth]

I think it has to be like.

[Host]

You got to have that one fail. I actually met. I didn't meet him, but someone told me he met a billionaire once and he said he doesn't work with people that haven't had a failure before.

[Peter Roth]

I would. That makes sense.

[Host]

Yeah. He doesn't become business parts with someone that hasn't had a company like fail.

[Peter Roth]

And that's one of the things. Right. Like that's part of running a company is like, you have to go through recessions, you have to go through tough economic times. You know, when I started my first business, we. I started it in November of 2001, so two months after 9, 11.

[Host]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

That's when I started my first business.

[Host]

During a recession. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

One of the worst in the entire, you know, history. And so I learned very quickly, you know, like, I didn't know anything else. That was my first, you know, that was my first foray into business was welcome to this storm, you know?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So. But I'm so thankful because it's like I didn't know any better. I didn't know good times. I only knew this incredibly challenging times.

[Host]

And that's.

[Peter Roth]

That's what I got thrown into. So I'm like, I've. And I kind of. This sounds weird, but I wish the same on every aspiring business owner. I wish that they would only start in a difficult down market because there's nothing worse than thinking you're just the smartest kid on the block. Right. There's nothing worse than thinking you're hot because then you will eat a face full of humble pie real fast.

[Host]

Well, now's the time. Looks like we're about to be in another recession. I know they've been saying that for years, but it actually seems like we're there now. It does, it does.

[Peter Roth]

And actually the bitcoin crash looks like it's actually a bit of a precursor. It's a bit of a canary in a coal mine.

[Host]

It actually. Yeah. If you follow bitcoin crashes with recessions, there's a. There's a similarity.

[Peter Roth]

There's. Yeah. And so.

[Host]

And real estate, too.

[Peter Roth]

A lot of economists are saying that it's now it is the canary Nicoma. It is the. The precursor to a big recession about to come. And then that the only thing that's actually been holding that's propping up our economy this whole time has been AI, AI.

[Host]

If it wasn't for AI, we would have already been in one. Yeah. Easily.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. So get ready, guys. Buckle up. It's going to be rough. Few years, maybe a few months. Who knows how long it'll be? But I agree, dude, this was great. Where can people. Do you do coaching or anything? Do you have any products?

[Peter Roth]

No, I don't do the coaching thing. I just. I just. I help companies. I help companies get more business. That. That sounds cheesy because who. Everyone says that. No, I help. Here's what I really do is I help companies get their sales guys into homes to sell those people stuff. Right. So whether you're in roofing or H vac or even solar, but electrician, plumber, whatever, whatever it is that you do, and especially in home services. But now we're doing a lot of work with real estate agents because this is a, you know, it's the same concept, right. Just call a homeowner like, hey, you want to sell? Yes or no. Right. It's not that hard. And so, you know, now we're helping companies like that you know, generate tons and tons of business using this. What was what was once old is now new methodology. So nice.

[Host]

So if you're interested in that, guys, we'll link your Instagram for them to reach out to. Cool. For sure.

[Peter Roth]

Cool.

[Host]

Thanks for coming on, man. That was fun. Great to meet you. Check them out, guys.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Peace. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

[Host]

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.

[Sponsor Voice]

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