Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story | Gene Borrello DSH #997

Summary

Digital Social Hour Podcast Episode: Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story | Gene Borrello DSH #997
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Gene Borrello
Release Date: December 20, 2024

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Introduction

In episode #997 of the Digital Social Hour titled "Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story," host Sean Kelly engages in a candid and riveting conversation with Gene Borrello, a former mob member who has transitioned from a life of organized crime to podcasting. The episode delves deep into Gene’s tumultuous journey, offering listeners an unfiltered glimpse into the inner workings of the mafia, his legal battles, and his path to redemption.

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Gene’s Mafia Background

Early Involvement and Family Ties

Gene Borrello opens up about his upbringing in Howard Beach, Queens, a neighborhood deeply entrenched in mafia culture. "Howard Beach is like a mafia soul, pop. We have four bosses living out of the five," Gene explains (08:42). His familial connections played a significant role in his immersion into organized crime. "I was born into it. My uncle was a captain. My cousin was a hitter for the Gambinos," he states (03:52).

Becoming a Made Man

The conversation highlights the stringent requirements to ascend within the mafia ranks. Gene shares, "You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered," emphasizing the long tenure needed to gain trust and status within the organization (08:48). This decade-long commitment underscores the mafia's emphasis on loyalty and adherence to its rules.

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The First Mafia Podcast and Its Impact

Initiation into Podcasting

Upon his release in 2020, Gene was uncertain about his future. With the help of family friend Johnny A. Light, he ventured into podcasting. "Johnny put me on a show on a big podcast called Vlad TV," Gene recounts (01:29). This initial exposure ignited the idea of starting a mafia-focused podcast, blending his firsthand experiences with modern storytelling.

Rapid Growth and Government Intervention

The podcast quickly gained popularity, attracting other ex-mob members to share their stories. However, Gene faced significant challenges as the government perceived the podcast as a threat. "The government basically took it from me. They kept violating me for the show," he explains (02:37). This interference led to his probation being repeatedly restarted, culminating in his imprisonment for violating the terms (03:01).

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Legal Troubles and Imprisonment

Probation Violations and Prison Time

Gene details how his involvement in the podcast led to continuous legal troubles. "They kept putting me in ankle monitors, restarting my probation," he says (03:05). These violations eventually resulted in a 20-month stint in prison, specifically at MDC Brooklyn (02:50).

Life Behind Bars

During his incarceration, Gene provides a stark portrayal of prison life. "Rikers Island. It's probably one of the worst prisons I ever been to at home. So violent. Oh, really chaotic," he admits (15:52). The brutal environment contrasted sharply with his former life, highlighting the pervasive violence and lack of structure within the prison system.

Interactions and Experiences in Prison

Gene shared poignant experiences, including meeting fellow inmates like rapper Fetty Wap and his reflections on the justice system. "I met Fetty Wap in prison. He was a cool guy," he notes (18:46). These interactions humanize the often dehumanizing aspect of prison life, showcasing the diverse backgrounds of those incarcerated.

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Reflections and Transition to Podcasting

Surviving the Mafia and Prison

Reflecting on his survival, Gene muses, "I don't know how I made it to my 40 years old that I am right now," expressing a sense of disbelief and gratitude for having navigated both the perilous world of organized crime and the harsh realities of prison life (20:19).

Current Endeavors and Future Plans

With his past behind him, Gene is determined to make a positive impact through storytelling. "I really believe that this TV show is going to crack off. I think that's what it's supposed to be," he shares (20:31). His ambition to create a show about the modern-day mafia aims to educate and inform, shedding light on the evolution of organized crime.

Podcasting as Redemption

Gene contemplates returning to podcasting, perhaps solo, to further his narrative. "I might come out with a podcast again. I was thinking about it," he reveals (26:38). This potential return signifies his ongoing journey towards redemption and the desire to share his story with a broader audience.

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Insights on Organized Crime and Law Enforcement

Decline of Traditional Mafia Practices

Gene observes a significant shift in the mafia’s operations over the years. "There's no more violence. There's no more facing. A lot of time when I was coming up, guys are facing life. Shootings, murders, this, that," he explains (04:19). This decline is attributed to stringent laws like RICO, which have dismantled many traditional mafia structures.

Comparative Analysis with International Mafia

Discussing the persistence of mafia activities outside the U.S., Gene states, "It's still big in Italy. Absolutely," highlighting how different legal frameworks and cultural contexts allow organized crime to thrive in regions like Italy and Canada (23:12).

Effectiveness of RICO Laws

Gene credits the RICO laws for their effectiveness in curbing organized crime in the U.S. "Absolutely. You get life and nothing," he asserts (23:23). The legislation has been pivotal in targeting high-ranking members, thereby destabilizing mafia operations.

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Notable Quotes

• On Mafia Structure:
  "You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered." (08:48)
  — Gene Borrello

• On Government Interference:
  "The government basically took it from me. They kept violating me for the show." (02:37)
  — Gene Borrello

• On Prison Life:
  "Rikers Island. It's probably one of the worst prisons I ever been to at home. So violent. Oh, really chaotic." (15:52)
  — Gene Borrello

• On Survival:
  "I don't know how I made it to my 40 years old that I am right now." (20:19)
  — Gene Borrello

• On RICO Laws:
  "Absolutely. You get life and nothing." (23:23)
  — Gene Borrello

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Conclusion

The episode "Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story" offers a compelling narrative of transformation and resilience. Gene Borrello's honest recounting of his life in the mafia, his struggles with the legal system, and his aspirations for the future serve as a stark reminder of the profound impacts of organized crime and the possibilities of redemption. Sean Kelly masterfully facilitates this dialogue, ensuring that listeners gain valuable insights into the complexities of both the criminal underworld and the path to personal reinvention.

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Timestamp Key:

• 08:42 – Gene’s Mafia Background
• 03:52 – Family Ties in Mafia
• 08:48 – Becoming a Made Man
• 01:29 – Initiation into Podcasting
• 02:37 – Government Intervention
• 03:05 – Legal Troubles
• 15:52 – Prison Life
• 18:46 – Interactions in Prison
• 20:19 – Survival Reflection
• 20:31 – Future Plans
• 26:38 – Transition to Podcasting
• 04:19 – Decline of Mafia Practices
• 23:12 – International Mafia
• 23:23 – Effectiveness of RICO

Transcript

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[B]

Damn tenure.

[A]

Oh, it could take 10 years. Genovese family. You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

So every. You know, like I said, the mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules. You went with a made man's wife, you die. You put your hands on a member, you're dead. You. You know, these rules were very strict and they had to go by them, and that's how they survived, you know.

[B]

All right, guys, Scott, Gene Borrello out here. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

What's going on, man?

[B]

Thanks for having me. Yeah, we were talking out there. You said you had the first mafia show.

[A]

Never did. Yeah, so what happened was when I got out in 20, 2020, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I was, you know, a mob guy in the street my whole life. So I didn't know, you know, what can I do? I had a family friend named Johnny A. Light. Johnny Light was a hitter for the Gambino family. He already was out there doing talking. So him and Mike Francis did interviews. Just interviews. I mean, so when me and Johnny got together, he put me on a show on a big podcast called Vlad TV. Yeah, I came out of Vlad. Only did 10 minutes on there, but everyone know who I was. I was a modern day guy. There's no such thing as that. You know, everyone's old school. Old school. So me and Johnny came up with this idea and he says, what have we started a podcast, like for organized crimes? In your hand. So, long story short, we end up doing it and it just blows up. And then every other ex mobs that just followed suit, you know? Yeah, and that's exactly how it happened. You know, and then the government basically took it from me. You know, I was still on probation.

[B]

So you got locked up and then had to put a whole.

[A]

Well, they kept. Yeah, they kept violating me for the show.

[B]

Because you were traveling to film?

[A]

No, sitting next to an ex con. They were mad that we were putting other cooperators on the show. That was. They still want to use one, they can put us in the newspaper. The government was going crazy. They wanted me off. So they end up starting violating me for it.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

I end up doing like 20 months in violations.

[B]

Geez. Yeah, and you had to go to.

[A]

Prison for mdc Brooklyn.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Yeah, they kept putting me in ankle monitors, restarting my probation. They were coming at me, Jake.

[B]

So are you fine with free of all?

[A]

I'm done. No more probation, no more ankle mongers.

[B]

Jeez. So you can't even start it again, though, or.

[A]

I can, but, you know, me and Johnny, he's in Jersey now. I'm over in Florida. So we don't want to do it through zoom. So we try to get together, but he's in Europe right now. So we had it going back for a little while, and then we got demonetized to some things that we were saying.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So we got married.

[B]

Yeah, he does that.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

How long have you known John?

[A]

Well, I mean, since I'm young, but, you know, not well, but, you know, he was good friends of my family, and he went to jail in 2003. I was just starting in the street, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, I knew his kids very well.

[B]

Did you know he was a hitman at the time?

[A]

Of course. I mean, everyone knew what he did.

[B]

Wow. And is that a path you wanted to follow?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty realist.

[A]

Yeah. I wanted to be like, you know, those guys. You know, that's my whole life. That's what I wanted.

[B]

What drew you to specifically the headman route, though, or just.

[A]

Just. I wanted to be an organized crime.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now I want to be a mob guy. I was born into it. My uncle was a captain. My cousin was a hitter for the Gambinos. You know, I just had it all around me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so. And Howard Beach, Queens. I mean, where are you from?

[B]

Jersey. Central Jersey.

[A]

All right, so Queens, where I'm from, Howard beach is like a mafia soul, pop. We have four bosses living out of the five.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah. With hundreds of guys, associates. So you walk out your house, it's just organized crime, you know, that was your whole life. That's your whole. My whole life.

[B]

Holy crap. Any of those guys still around today?

[A]

Most of them are dead or doing life or, you know, cooperated. Yeah. It's the same outcome for all of us.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's probably not many. Michael was saying he only knows like, one guy.

[A]

Well, here's the thing for the generation now, they'll survive because they're not doing the things that we were doing. There's no more violence. There's no more facing. A lot of time when I was coming up, guys are facing life. Shootings, murders, this, that. All they're doing now is long, shocking and bookmaking. What are you gonna get? Eight years? No one's cooperating over eight years. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, it'll. It. They'll never experience what we had to.

[B]

Experience, you know, so there's no more violence.

[A]

Gone.

[B]

Violence was gone. No more hits, no nothing gone.

[A]

There's been a murder in 10 years.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's actually crazy because they're known for that.

[A]

Yeah, that's gone. They took the murder out.

[B]

Is it because of the. Rico's just scary.

[A]

Yeah, it's just that and it turns makes people cooperate, you know, when you're facing life in prison and you know, the murders is what brought the. Brought the rocks, you know.

[B]

Right. Do you think it'll ever get to the. The peak heyday of like Mike said 40s to 80s was the peak.

[A]

Yeah. 90s was pretty crazy too. Yeah. I mean, 90s is pretty nuts.

[B]

John Gotti, right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, he was eight. Yeah. He's 70s, 80s. But 90s was still really wild, you know, so I would say 40s, the 90s, I would say, you know, that's.

[B]

When you were in it, right?

[A]

Yeah, late, late, late 90s.

[B]

And caught a tail end of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they started bringing up.

[A]

But don't get me wrong, we were still nuts. Like. Like my circle, early 2000s. We were still out of our minds. Oh, yeah. We were operating like we were in the 80s.

[B]

Did you want attention?

[A]

No. But to prosper in that life, we felt like, you know, money and violence was the way to prosper.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's what I did.

[B]

Were you trying to climb the ranks?

[A]

Yeah, you know, but it's not like a gang where you're blood and I'm blood and say, hey you.

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[A]

My friend, you're blood. Now don't work like that with us. You got to be on record with a crew for a certain amount of time.

[B]

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[A]

You could do time back then. You got to put work in everything to become a member, which could take you 10 years.

[B]

Damn. 10 years?

[A]

Oh, it could take 10 years. Genovese family. You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

So every. You know, like I said, the mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules. You went with a made man's wife, you die. You put your hands on a member, you're dead. You, you know, these rules were very strict and they had to go by them and that's how they survived, you know.

[B]

Did you face any near death experiences?

[A]

Absolutely. I. Five attempts in my life.

[B]

Damn. Five?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was that after you switched her?

[A]

No, before. Oh, before street life, you know, living that crazy life.

[B]

So they put a hit on you?

[A]

No. Yeah, you know, beefing and then, you know, they tried to kill me and they shot my elder friend. It was just a lot of crazy stuff I went through, you know.

[B]

Holy cr.

[A]

My life wasn't moving, you know, that's. So I'm getting a TV show pretty much.

[B]

You haven't feared that you're just used.

[A]

I was used to it. You know, they tried to kill me my house with a machine gun. They shoot me from house or shotgun. I mean, I've been through it all, man, so.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you had no, like, warning. It just happened.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, you don't see it coming, man? Dad, we don't operate like that.

[B]

Walk in a room and you don't want.

[A]

You don't see it coming.

[B]

You know, any meetings you took where you were like, this might be my.

[A]

Yeah. So I had stuck up a social club which is where mob guys hang out. Me and my partner, I tell the story in a bunch of podcasts. But this is when I thought we got stuck up. I'll cut to the chase. We did something we're un supposed to we stuck up a card game, and we had to go to the funeral parlor basement.

[B]

Whoa. That's what I was dead for. Holy crap.

[A]

I wasn't even gonna go.

[B]

And you talked your way out of it.

[A]

No, but it was kind of like situated where we would just get a little beaten from our people and, you know, give the stuff back, and then that was it.

[B]

Damn. So going to card games in Robin was a big thing for you?

[A]

Depth.

[B]

It's that pound thought you weren't about to do it.

[A]

No, we were doing it, though. Most do it. Yeah. So, you know, but you definitely get killed. All that.

[B]

There's a scene of that in. What's that movie Goodfellas, where they rob a card game. That was at a different movie.

[A]

It's Sopranos. Sopranos. So, yeah. But, yeah, we were sticking up. We were doing a lot of armed robberies. That's how I started off with my partners. We were doing a lot of scores. And then, you know, we went to loan shock and sports betting. And then now we got recruited by the Bonaro family, and then we started doing work for them.

[B]

Were they the biggest family out of the five?

[A]

They said there's no bigger family than the other. I guess you may say at one time, the Gambinos were the biggest. But usually I like to keep it equal. Nobody's above anybody in their life. That's how when you learn that out of the five families, no one's above anybody. John is a role equal. You're a member, you're a member. There's no difference. You know, I don't care what family you're from, you still get the same respect.

[B]

And they work together, right, the family?

[A]

They do, yes. But when it comes down to live beef, they'll take, you know, their sides. But usually, yeah, we're all friends. You know, I have friends, all the crews and families, and we did things together. But you got to be careful. There's a lot of rules with that. You can't get involved in that beef. She know there's a lot of things, you know, I mean, it's a lot of technicality, should I say?

[B]

All right, you know, Were you in any beefs with certain families? Any wars at the time?

[A]

No. More with the Albanians.

[B]

Albanians.

[A]

We used to fight with them a lot, but, yeah, it was definitely beefs within us, you know what I mean? Like crews or people that were beefing each other inside the crew. That happens a lot.

[B]

You know what happened with Albanians?

[A]

They didn't like us when they came over, so they Were trying to run all the Italians out of their spots.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We weren't having it.

[B]

Oh. So we got violent.

[A]

Very violent. They were dragging mud buys out of their restaurants.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah, it got really crazy in the Bronx in certain areas. It was getting wild, you know.

[B]

Holy crap. I didn't know that. Yeah, but Italians are the biggest.

[A]

Well, we were. And then we softened up because the generation started getting richer and richer. You know, they weren't hungry no more. You know, their grandpas and fathers paved the way for these kids not to do anything no more. So why are they in the street running around with guns? Albanians are coming over starving, like we did originally.

[B]

Got it. So it cycles.

[A]

Cycles.

[B]

So right now, where do you think they're at?

[A]

Mafia? Thai Mafia? Yeah, it's dead.

[B]

It's completely dead.

[A]

Pretty much that. It's there. It'll always be there. You'll always have your sports betting, your legal gambling, your extortion, you know, unions, things. But the. The. The real organized crime, the fear of being killed if shot brought, you know, that's gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, all the movies, that stuff is all gone. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Or any other shows or movies. Actor.

[A]

Yes. Goodfellas. So.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. It's my neighborhood. Basically.

[B]

That's my favorite one.

[A]

I worked for the guy who was charged with Lathansa. I worked for him personally.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Vinny Saro.

[B]

Did you have input on movie?

[A]

No, no, no. I'm saying. But he was charged with that Latanza. I worked for him. Oh, wow. Later on in life. That was my boss. Oh yeah.

[B]

What was that alert?

[A]

He was psychotic. The nut job that he's our and knows who he is. You know, he's a psychopath. You know, when he was. I got along with him, but he was crazy.

[B]

Okay. What ended up happening?

[A]

He died. He ended up dying and in prison? No, no. Down the street. Oh yeah. But he was just a psychopath. He had beat that trial. Not guilty, no charges.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How many times did they try to trial you?

[A]

I did 13 years total in prison.

[B]

Just the first trial guy.

[A]

No, just No, I mean in and out. I did 13 years to my life. But you know, I been through many cases.

[B]

Serious. You met some interesting people in prison. I want to go through.

[A]

So yes, I have.

[B]

So I'm a big crypto guy. So when you mess free.

[A]

I looked at a hole for Sam Bacon.

[B]

Free. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was he like?

[A]

He was weird. It is super weird. But you know, I mean, you know, he didn't fit in, you know, I thought he was going to get life, what, 50 years. He was supposed to. For what? I was told the only reason why he didn't get the 50 or 75 years he was opposed to is because his victims actually said not to do that to him.

[B]

Really?

[A]

The people that were robbed for the money?

[B]

Well, he got like 20, 25 though.

[A]

I 27. I don't agree with giving him that much time for money. I just don't.

[B]

What.

[A]

I don't. I know guys that have premeditated murder, they get 20 years in the feds. You know, I don't understand, you know, killing someone and taking money.

[B]

You think it's different?

[A]

It's so different. It does not fit. You're not supposed to get five years, okay, you some money back. You don't belong getting 30 years, 100 years for taking money. I'm sorry.

[B]

I think they wanted to make an example because it was so big.

[A]

No, yeah, that's exactly what it is. But it's at the end day. It don't fit. It don't make sense. I have friends with murders. I'm telling you, kill people, 30 years, 27 years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[B]

You know, I don't.

[A]

It's right.

[B]

Was he targeted right away in there? No.

[A]

Yeah, not really. But you could see they were going to be. I mean a.

[B]

He's got money, so there's tons of money.

[A]

Tons of money.

[B]

Yeah, dad. So you gotta. You. You stepped in there, right? That's how.

[A]

Yeah, I can try to get him. I ended up fighting the kid, getting him and I went to the hole, went home from the box, so.

[B]

Geez. How long were you in there?

[A]

I did a total on that bit. I did like 90 days in the hole, man.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

Yeah, we just going all crazy. Oh yeah, I was, you know, but I mean I've done lots of whole time, so I was not used to it. But you know, it sucks. But you got to do it. You can do about it. There's nothing you could do. You're there. It's it. You're not going nowhere. You could scream, you could cry, you could dig. You're not going nowhere.

[B]

You got the Bible though, right?

[A]

You know, you're by yourself and I mean, there's nothing you're doing.

[B]

Were you reading the Bible?

[A]

I was. I don't know what I was doing. Right. Pacing.

[B]

Do you think they should remove the whole.

[A]

These prisons, they have a will actually. The state is trying to. The government will put you in the hole for 18 months. But I don't even. Don't even care. The feds is fucked up, man. The state is a lot better now than the Feds. The feds is really fucked up right now.

[B]

So you got to go to a state prisoner, not a Fed.

[A]

Yeah, Feds is really fucked up right now. They'll put you investigation and put you in all the six months.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

And then tell you the investigation's up.

[B]

And so they don't like you. You're fine.

[A]

Well, I don't like you. It's just that they. That their punishments are a lot more harsh.

[B]

Yeah. Which prison was the toughest for you?

[A]

Rikers Island. It's probably one of the worst prisons I ever been to at home. So violent. Oh, really chaotic.

[B]

Level four.

[A]

Oh, dirty. It's just beyond that. I mean, it's just chaos and, I mean, just no structure. It's just five boroughs at war.

[B]

Oh, all the mob guys are there.

[A]

No, all the gang members are there.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Mob guys. Yeah, that's.

[B]

Oh, so you had no one.

[A]

No one there. She saw gangs.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Just killing each other all day.

[B]

Holy. So you were just on your own in the middle?

[A]

Oh, yeah. You know, it was just crazy.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

Yeah, it was a horror show.

[B]

I just went to Alcatraz. They got rid of that one quick.

[A]

Head's gone.

[B]

People couldn't handle that one.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think when you're on an island, there's just. Psychologically, you're like.

[A]

Yeah, it's still Pelican Bay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Isn't that Pelican Bay? Is that one of the best out there in California I haven't heard about? Yeah, yeah, that's one of the bad ones. I mean, there's still a lot of bad spots in California and stuff like that, but New York, the worst place is Rikers Isle.

[B]

New York in general, the court system, 96% conviction rate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like the worst state to go to, Gordon?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Is that where you did yours?

[A]

Yeah. All New York.

[B]

Yeah. You're not winning there.

[A]

No, you're not. But I'll tell you one thing. Their feral circuit is better than any other federal circuit.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. You go to other circuits, their time is way more.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They give a lot more time out in the Feds and other states. I wonder why New York actually is the best place to be sentenced for federal.

[B]

I didn't know that. It's absolutely. It's just not for state, though. State.

[A]

You're getting state. Yeah, but if you go to other states, like, for federal, it's absolutely Horrifying.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But they give you 20 years for a pound of dope. It's crazy. Other states, you know, federals and now.

[B]

Weed'S legal and people are still in jail.

[A]

Well, if you cross state lines, it's not right.

[B]

Did you ever get in drug game.

[A]

When you were robbing drug dealers? We did a lot of that. Did a lot of robbery. Drug dealers. We did a lot of. I've sold drugs, obviously, but meanwhile robbing them.

[B]

When you were planning these robberies, how intricate was it? How much planning went into it? Or was it on the spot?

[A]

No, this is hard. We were doing it professional.

[B]

Casing it.

[A]

We were doing it professionally. Yeah. Yeah, professionally. Doing it, yeah. Tracking devices on you. Oh, yeah. Watching you, you know, decoy cars, nice cars. Hang cars with different plates on them. You know, there are different people follow you, you know, trying, you know, we kidnap you. Kidnapped, you know, a few before, stuff like that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know that much went into it.

[A]

Yeah, doing a lot.

[B]

What was the biggest score?

[A]

Well, we hit jewelry stores as well, so. I mean, I've hit a jewelry store for. Well, they said it was 2 million, but it wasn't. It was 1 million, but, yeah, I hit 1 million.

[B]

You don't got a million berries somewhere?

[A]

No, no, I wish.

[B]

Well, they're gonna say that for the insurance claim.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, they did, exactly. That was in 2005. We hit it in the middle of.

[B]

Damn, 2 million back then.

[A]

Yeah, we hit in 2005. That was.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

It's almost 20 years ago.

[B]

I had the biggest jewelry thief on the show. Trying to remember his name. Dude, there's a bald guy, but, yeah, he said he hit. Jory was a good.

[A]

Yeah, I was a big guy. I was a big school guy. I like the heist, you know, I like a lot of stuff.

[B]

You like the adrenaline?

[A]

Yeah, I did. I was a stick up guy, you know, I did a lot of stuff like that, but, you know, in general, I was just a ballsy dude. So, you know, I liked all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Damn. You also met Fetty Wab at birthday.

[A]

That was my buddy. Yeah, I was a fetty wall.

[B]

He's in right now, right?

[A]

Yeah, he gave him six years.

[B]

And that's when you met him recently?

[A]

Yeah, I met him in prison. Yeah, he was a cool guy, man.

[B]

I was shocked when he got busted for drugs.

[A]

I know. Well, his situation is kind of messed up, but, you know, I can tell you one thing. He's a good person. I got a long one. Very well, I Didn't think he was going to be cool like that. He actually was.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, cool guy like you were allowed.

[B]

Because usually they separate the races.

[A]

No, no, no. We're all together.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, everything was cool. He was cool guy.

[B]

Okay. Cuz I thought the blacks were separate. Nah, not, not prison.

[A]

No, they weren't. Everybody's hanging.

[B]

Which prison was up?

[A]

MDC broke it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Wow, you got your clicks. But everybody was friendly with each other.

[B]

Because the movies you just see, like.

[A]

That'S like penitentiary stuff. I'm gonna go behind the walls and stuff like that, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Any attempts on your life in prison or were they all outside?

[A]

No, mostly outside. But I was on a lot of jail beach. But mostly everything was straight.

[B]

I feel that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're completely done. You're done with it?

[A]

Yeah, I've been done. You know, I go to jail for stupid, you know, like not even jail. It's okay. Dumb violation, probations, you know, stuff with your girl, you know, like that nonsense, you know, nothing that was known for. Because that was the case, I'd be doing life.

[B]

I mean, how do you fight off those adrenaline urges though?

[A]

Well, I, I just don't want to die in jail. That's what's gonna happen, you know, I mean, you know you're gonna get caught, you know, nobody gets away. You get along with it for only a certain amount of time and then it's the same ending, like I tell everybody.

[B]

Yeah. So reflecting where you're at now and seeing all your peers either gone or jail, how does that feel?

[A]

Everyone's gone or jail or cooperate or Everyone I know.

[B]

Does it make you question, like, why did I survive this?

[A]

Yeah, everyone says that. I don't, I don't, I don't know how I made it to my. The 40 years old that I am right now, you know, I mean, aggressive. I'm not supposed to be for your mouth for like.

[B]

Oh, you get it.

[A]

Absolutely. I was, you know, I was out of my mind.

[B]

I think someone's got a plan for you, dude.

[A]

Yeah, I think so. I. I really believe that this TV show is going to crack off. I think that's what it's supposed to be. I think. And then my neighborhood really wants that. But it's going to talk about like the five boroughs in the neighborhood and the modern day mafia and I think everyone's gonna really love that.

[B]

What's the premise of the show?

[A]

So it's basically about modern day mafia. Everyone always has. Mike Francis you have on, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's from the 70s, the 80s. John got all those guys from the 70s and 80s. I'm the only guy out here with the modern day giving you all the stuff from our day, so, you know, it's something new. It's like a modern day what went on in Mafia and our time.

[B]

Right. Did you ever deal with Gotti?

[A]

The grandkid worked for me. Oh, yeah, yeah. One of his grandsons was my guy.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he would tell you stories about him?

[A]

Oh, no, I mean, my. My uncle's. My uncle was above him at one time. You know, my grandpa knew him. You know, I was like a soap opera. We all know each other. You know, I never met him, but, you know, obviously, you know, all my friends, families work for him and people like that, you know.

[B]

Yeah, his downfall was. Was rough.

[A]

Yeah, he knew it, but, you know, I gotta say, he. He knew what his outcome was and he was okay with it.

[B]

Oh, he was okay with it.

[A]

He was okay. He knew he was gonna die in prison. He was the most watched guy in America at one time. I mean, he knew where he was going. He killed Paul Caslano in the middle of the street in front of a steakhouse. You know, he knew where he was going. He had the, you know, thousands of people on them. He knew where he was going. He wanted to go out like that.

[B]

You know, did, you know he killed him right away or did it take?

[A]

I mean, I was a baby. But I mean, obviously everyone blamed, you know, blamed him. Obviously.

[B]

Yeah. Him and Sammy, right?

[A]

Yeah, he's a new boss. I mean, you know.

[B]

Have you ever talked to Sammy?

[A]

Yeah, I was on a show with him.

[B]

Oh, you are?

[A]

Yeah, a few times I was with him in Beverly Hills.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was that like?

[A]

Cool. I like Sammy.

[B]

Yeah, he's. Man, his show is awesome.

[A]

Yeah, he's cool, Sammy, man.

[B]

He's got.

[A]

Me and my cousin Anthony did it together. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was cool.

[B]

Yeah, because I know he had a lot of. A lot of enemies.

[A]

Oh, my God. Kill a lot of people.

[B]

He might have the record, right?

[A]

No, not the record, but he's got.

[B]

A lot of murders for mafia. He's got to be up there.

[A]

He's up there. But, you know, you got guys like Tommy Karate, Gregory Scarpa, Roy De Mayo. These guys kill 50 plus people.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

Yeah, it's a whole new ball game.

[B]

50 plus.

[A]

Oh, easy.

[B]

Yeah, so back then it was easier to do it.

[A]

Yeah, they. They would. These guys were serial killers, you know, they would have been killing without the mafia.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I say. Yeah. 50 plus. I mean, yeah.

[A]

Tommy Karate claim is who know? They say the number is accountable.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Kiwi. Yeah. Serial killer, murder. And Gregory Scott, too. Gregory Scarpa goes back to the 50s, killing people all the way to the 90s.

[B]

God damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're finding bodies in the Lake of Vegas. Oh, every other year.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Damn. The mom was big in Vegas, right?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And that was a few mine, though.

[A]

That was Chicago, Mom.

[B]

That was a Chicago moment. It doesn't seem like anymore. They're. They're.

[A]

No, they're all gone. It's all. It's all watered down. The only thing left is the five boroughs, really. And it's not really like. No, nothing. Really.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah. It's not like.

[B]

What about in Italy? Is it still big in Italy?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

So why did it survive there but not the US because the laws and.

[A]

The way the world works, it's just much different over there. You know what I mean? Same reason why Canada is still crazy with the Mafia. Canada, they have no rico.

[B]

Oh, so is the RICO that.

[A]

Yeah. Kind of still killing everybody? They kill each other out there all the time.

[B]

Wow. So that RICO was really effective.

[A]

Absolutely. Us, you get life and nothing.

[B]

Right. And they would get like 20 guys at once.

[A]

Oh, forget. They created that law to get the people that were the puppet masters.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Get the guys in the shadows.

[B]

You were probably freaking out when I came out.

[A]

Mean, I was young, I was. I wasn't even known. But I know when I got hit with. I know what it does to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everyone around you, you know what I'm saying?

[B]

What percentage of people switch when that hits?

[A]

It depends. You know what I mean? Like, I was a guy facing forever in a day. So most of the time you won't cooperate unless you're facing, like, you know, life. 30 years, 40 years. Most guys I know, you know, most of my friends that cooperated got five murders, three murders. That penalty case. Yeah. Like, Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You cooperate about five years, you're a jerk off. You should have never been in the street.

[B]

All right?

[A]

You know what I'm saying? You should have never even thought about coming out your house, doing anything.

[B]

Yeah. You know, so if you didn't cooperate, what would have happened?

[A]

Or became a member. And I would be running Ronnie's crew. Ivy, in prison right now, actually doing a lot more time.

[B]

Wow. So you're not the right move.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was probably the toughest decision you've ever made in your life, right? Yeah, it Was because you lost all your friends, right? Oh, oh, you did. No, people didn't.

[A]

People love me, man. They knew the situation I was in. My cousin wore a wire on me. Everyone told on me that my little brother was. I got a gun charge. It was just. I was in such a bad position, you know what I'm saying? I got fucked over royally. But yeah, I still talk to a lot of people.

[B]

Okay. How insane was the money?

[A]

Now I. I was never a multimillionaire. Made good money. I made that by high. 40,000amonth, you know, that was like decent, you know I'm saying. But I was more of like the violent guy. I was doing a lot of dirty work, but at my high, I was making like 40,000amonth plus. Cause you know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah, but you had a cycle it up too, so.

[A]

Yeah, I was. I was about to start making some real. My Boss was making 400,000amonth.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

Yeah. Which boss was Ronnie G. Alonzo?

[B]

Okay. Was he on that top 50 list they made?

[A]

No. What he should be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Millions of dollars. He lived in a three million dollar house, you know, he used big money.

[B]

Damn. Which boss do you think had the most money?

[A]

I would say of all time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's a tough one. I mean, mine was big. Joe Messino had a lot. 7 million gold balls in his house. I mean, you got a bunch of these guys, it's hard to say, but they say Frank Costello was the richest gangster ever, so.

[B]

And he was one of the first. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. What about recent ones though?

[A]

Right now there's so much money. I don't know. You can't even say. You know what I mean?

[B]

It's a long charging, right?

[A]

Yeah. You're not. They just have so many businesses and so many things you don't even know.

[B]

Yeah, because now they're cleaning it, right?

[A]

They're putting in business millions and millions of dollars.

[B]

A lot of these guys have, you know, real estate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's crazy. Was there any activity in Jersey when.

[A]

You were part of it?

[B]

I.

[A]

We didn't deal with them.

[B]

You didn't do it?

[A]

Yeah, I really deal with Jersey over there, you know, I mean, there is. There's cruise branches off in there, but we didn't really deal with them.

[B]

Got it. Because the Sopranos was Jersey.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. That's more 80s. Soprano is based off a guy named I Believe in the Ocean. And that was like a long time ago, you know. The 80s.

[B]

Yeah. How accurate was that show? Pretty accurate. Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. You never know what these movies and shows.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty accurate, you know? And then you have consultants on these shows. Remember that? Like me on the low.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That might have been a mob guy in Jersey. And they pay them to give them stories. So that's how we get stories.

[B]

Oh, I feel I'm humped to see your show, man. Why does that job?

[A]

Well, you know, working on it right now. You know, he's had a nice meeting yesterday. We're trying to get this thing rolling.

[B]

Oh, God. Cool. Anything else you're working on?

[A]

So I might come out with a podcast again. I was thinking about it. You know, I was doing again with Johnny Eli, but I'm thinking about doing a solo and trying to go on to, like, my own platform. I was. I was thinking about it, you know, but I got a lot of things going on. I really want to focus on that TV show because that's what I really want.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, that's. That's my goal.

[B]

Yeah, we'll link your stuff below, man, and if you do start a pod, I'll help you out. I'll get you on Rumble Get Demon.

[A]

That's a cool man.

[B]

Thank God, man. Thanks for coming on.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely, man.

[B]

Yeah. Thanks for watching, guys. See you.

[A]

Bye.