Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story | Gene Borrello DSH #997

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour – "Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story | Gene Borrello DSH #997"

Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly

In episode #997 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly delves deep into the tumultuous life of Gene Borrello, a former mobster who has navigated the perilous terrains of organized crime, incarceration, and eventual redemption through podcasting. This comprehensive conversation uncovers Gene's personal journey, the intricacies of mob life, government interventions, and his aspirations for the future.

---

1. Introduction to Gene Borrello's Mob Life

Gene Borrello opens up about his entrenched existence within the mob, highlighting the strict rules and organized structure that governed his life. He emphasizes the Genovese family's stringent membership criteria, stating:

"Oh, it could take 10 years. Genovese family. You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered." ([06:25])

Gene explains how the mob's adherence to strict protocols contributed to their resilience and infamy:

"The mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules." ([06:30])

---

2. Transition from Mob Life to Podcasting

Upon his release in 2020, Gene faced uncertainty about his future. Drawing from his past, he collaborated with a family friend, Johnny Elight, a Gambino family hitman, to launch what he claims was the "first mafia show ever." This venture quickly gained traction, inspiring other ex-mob members to start their own podcasts. Gene recounts:

"We end up doing it and it just blows up. And then every other ex mobs that just followed suit." ([01:25])

However, the success of the podcast drew unwanted attention from the government, leading to violations of his probation and ultimately, his re-incarceration.

---

3. Government Intervention and Imprisonment

Gene details the government's relentless efforts to shut down his podcasting endeavors, especially their displeasure with featuring cooperators:

"They were mad that we were putting all the cooperators on the show." ([02:07])

As a result, Gene spent 20 months on probation violations before being sent to MDC Brooklyn, enduring strict monitoring with ankle monitors. He reflects on his frustration with the limitations imposed on his freedom:

"I'm done. No more probation, no more ankle mongers." ([02:02])

---

4. Experiences in Prison

During his time at MDC Brooklyn, Gene shares harrowing experiences, including interactions with notable inmates and the brutal environment of Rikers Island. He mentions meeting Fetty Wap in prison, describing him as a "cool guy," despite his own skepticism about the prison ecosystem:

"He was a cool guy... I didn't think he was gonna be cool like that. He actually was." ([16:29])

Gene also discusses the psychological toll of incarceration, particularly time spent in solitary confinement ("the hole"), which he spent 90 days enduring intense isolation:

"It's crazy. You were on your own in the middle." ([13:52])

He advocates for prison reform, suggesting:

"Do you think they should remove the hole?"
"These prisons... are trying to. The government will put you in the hole for 18 months." ([13:01])

---

5. Reflections on the Decline of Organized Crime

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the decline of the Mafia in the United States, attributing it to the effectiveness of RICO laws and a shift away from violent methods:

"RICO was really effective then? Absolutely." ([21:05])

Gene observes that modern organized crime lacks the violence that once characterized the Mafia, leading to its eventual downfall:

"The real organized crime, the fear of being killed, of shot brought, you know, that's gone." ([10:00])

He contrasts this with the persistence of organized crime in other countries, such as Italy and Canada, where RICO-like laws are less prevalent:

"Why did it survive there but not the US because the laws and... The way the world works, it's just much different over there." ([20:48])

---

6. Future Aspirations and Redemption

Despite his past, Gene is focused on rebuilding his life and contributing positively through media. He discusses his plans to launch a TV show that explores modern-day Mafia activities, aiming to provide authentic insights into the current state of organized crime:

"I really believe that this TV show is going to crack off... It's going to talk about like the five boroughs in the neighborhood and the modern day Mafia." ([18:07])

He also contemplates restarting his podcast, potentially on a solo platform, to further share his experiences and knowledge:

"I might come out with a podcast again... but I got a lot of things going on. I really want to focus on that TV show." ([24:26])

---

7. Notable Interactions and Anecdotes

Gene shares anecdotes about influential mob figures, including his indirect connections to John Gotti and firsthand experiences with notorious individuals like Vinnie Asaro and Sammy “the Bull” Gravano:

"I worked for the guy who's charged with Lufthansa... Vinnie Asaro." ([10:23])

"I was on a show with him [Sammy Gravano]... It's pretty accurate." ([24:01])

These stories provide listeners with a firsthand account of the inner workings and personalities within the Mafia.

---

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Gene Borrello's narrative is a compelling tale of survival, adaptation, and the quest for redemption. From his deep-rooted involvement in organized crime to his confrontation with the justice system and eventual turn towards media, Gene offers a candid look into a world seldom seen from the inside. His reflections underscore the transformative impact of legal frameworks on organized crime and highlight the personal costs of a life once dominated by violence and loyalty.

As Gene pursues his aspirations of creating a TV show and potentially reviving his podcast, he embodies the possibility of reinvention and the pursuit of a legacy beyond his past misdeeds.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Gene Borrello on Mafia Structure:

  "The mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules." ([06:30])

• Gene Borrello on RICO Laws:

  "RICO was really effective then? Absolutely." ([21:05])

• Gene Borrello on Prison Experience:

  "It's crazy. You were on your own in the middle." ([13:52])

• Gene Borrello on Future Plans:

  "I really believe that this TV show is going to crack off... It's going to talk about like the five boroughs in the neighborhood and the modern day Mafia." ([18:07])

---

Final Note:
Gene's story serves as a stark reminder of the thin line between power and downfall within organized crime. His insights not only shed light on the operational aspects of the Mafia but also emphasize the profound personal transformations that come with facing the consequences of one's actions.

Transcript

[A]

Damn tenure.

[B]

Oh, it could take 10 years. Genovese family. You got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

So every. You know, like I said, the mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules. You went with a made man's wife, you die. You put your hands on a member, you're dead. You. You know, these rules were very strict and they had to go by them, and that's how they survived, you know.

[A]

All right, guys, Scott, Gene Borrello out here. Thanks for coming on, man.

[B]

What's going on, man?

[A]

Thanks for having me. Yeah, we were talking out there. You said you had the first mafia show ever.

[B]

Yeah. So what happened was when I got out in 20, 20, 20, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I was, you know, a mob guy in the street my whole life. So I didn't know, you know, what can I do? I had a family friend named Johnny Elight. Johnny Elight was a hitter for the Gambino family. He already was out there doing talking, so him and Mike Francis get interviews. Just interviews. I mean. So when me and Johnny got together, he put me on a show on a big podcast called Vlad TV. Dude, I came out of Vlad. I only did 10 minutes on there, but everyone know who I was. I was a modern day guy. There's no such thing as that. You know, everyone's old school. Old school. So me and Johnny came up with this idea and he says, what if we started a podcast, like for organized crimes in the end. So long story short, we end up doing it and it just blows up. And then every other ex mobs that just followed suit, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's exactly how it happened, you know, and then the government basically took it from me. You know, I was still on probation.

[A]

So you got locked up and then had to put a hold.

[B]

Well, they kept. Yeah, they kept violating me for the show.

[A]

Because you were traveling to film?

[B]

No, sitting next to an ex con. They were mad that we were putting all the cooperators on the show. That was. They still want to use one. They could put us in the newspaper. The government was going crazy. They wanted me off. So they end up stopping violating me for it.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

I end up doing like 20 months in violations.

[A]

Geez.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you had to go to prison for later.

[B]

Mdc, Brooklyn.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

Yeah, they kept putting me in out ankle monitors. We saw my probation they were coming at me, Jake.

[A]

So are you fine with free of all?

[B]

I'm done. No more probation, no more ankle mongers.

[A]

Jeez. So you can't even start it again, though, or.

[B]

I can, but, you know, me and Johnny, he's in. In Jersey now. I'm over in Florida. So it's. We don't want to do it through zoom, so we try to get together, but he's in Europe right now. So we had it going back for a little while, and then we got demonetized to some things that we were saying.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So we got married.

[A]

He does that.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

How long have you known John?

[B]

Well, I mean, since I'm young, but, you know, not well, but, you know, he was good friends of my family, and he went to jail in 2003. I was just starting in the street, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I knew his kids very well.

[A]

Did you know he was a hitman at the time?

[B]

Of course. I mean, everyone knew what he did.

[A]

Wow. And is that a path you wanted to follow?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you really?

[B]

Yeah. I wanted to be like, you know, those guys. You know, that's my whole life. That's what I wanted.

[A]

What drew you to specifically? The headman route, though, or just.

[B]

No, just. I wanted to be an organized crime.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Now, I wanted to be a mob guy. I was born into it. My uncle was a captain. My cousin was a hitter for the Gambinos. You know, I just had it all around me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so. And Howard Beach, Queens. I mean, where you from?

[A]

Jersey. Central Jersey.

[B]

All right, so Queens, where I'm from, Howard beach is at Camafia, Soul Pop. We have four bosses living out of the five.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

He. Yeah. With hundreds of guys, associates. So you walk out your house, it's just organized crime, you know, that was your whole life. That's your whole. My whole life.

[A]

Holy crap. Any of those guys still around today?

[B]

Most of them are dead or doing life or, you know, cooperated. Yeah. It's the same outcome for all of us.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's probably not many. Michael was saying he only knows, like, one guy.

[B]

Well, here's the thing for the generation now, they'll survive because they're not doing the things that we were doing. There's no more violence. There's no more facing A lot of time when I was coming up, guys are facing life. Shootings, murders, this, that. All they're doing now is long, shocking, and bookmaking. What are you gonna get? Eight years? No one's cooperating over eight years. You know what I'm saying? So it's like it'll. It. They'll never experience what we had to.

[A]

Experience, you know, so there's no more violence.

[B]

Gone.

[A]

Violence was gone. No more hits, no nothing gone.

[B]

There's been a murder in 10 years.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's actually crazy because they're known for that.

[B]

Yeah, that's gone. They took the murder out.

[A]

Is it because of the Rico's just scary.

[B]

Yeah, it's just that and it turns makes people cooperate, you know, when you're facing life in prison and you know, the murders is what brought the.

[A]

Brought the rocks, you know. Do you think it'll ever get to the. The peak heyday of like Michael said, 40s to 80s was the peak.

[B]

Yeah, 90s was pretty crazy. Yeah. I mean, 90s is pretty nuts.

[A]

John Gotti, right?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he was eight. Yeah, he's 70s, 80s. But 90s was still really wild, you know, So I would say 40s and 90s, I would say, you know, that's.

[A]

When you were in it, right?

[B]

Yeah, late, late, late 90s and caught a tail end of it. Yeah.

[A]

And then they started bringing up.

[B]

But don't get me wrong, we were still nuts. Like, like my circle, early 2000s. We were still out of our minds. Oh, yeah. We were operating like we were in the 80s.

[A]

Did you want attention?

[B]

No. But to prosper in that life. We felt like, you know, money and violence was the way to prosper right now. And that's what I did.

[A]

Were you trying to climb the ranks?

[B]

Yeah, you know, but it's not like a gang where your blood and I'm blood and say, hey, you're my friend. You're blood. Now don't work like that with us. You got to be on record with a crew for a certain amount of time.

[A]

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[B]

That you could do time better back then. You got to put work in everything to become a member, which could take you 10 years.

[A]

Damn. 10 years?

[B]

Oh, it could take 10 years. Genovese family, you got to be on record for 10 years. You would be considered.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

So every, you know, like I says, the mob is much different. That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules. You went with a made man's wife, you die. You put your hands on a member, you're dead. You. You know, these rules were very strict and they had to go by them and that's how they survived, you know.

[A]

Did you face any near death experiences?

[B]

Absolutely. I had five attempts in my life.

[A]

Damn. Five?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was that after you switched or.

[B]

No, before. Oh, before street life, you know, living that crazy life.

[A]

So they put a hit on you?

[B]

No. Yeah, you know, beefing and then, you know, they tried to kill me and they shot my other friend. It was just a lot of crazy stuff I went through, you know.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

My life wasn't moving, you know, that's why I'm getting a TV show. Pretty much.

[A]

You don't have a fear of death. You're just used to.

[B]

I was used to it. You know, they tried to kill me in my house with a machine gun, shoot me from my house with a shotgun. I mean, I've been through it all, man, so.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you had no, like, warning. It just happened. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you don't see it coming, man, Damn. We don't operate like that.

[A]

Walk in a room and you don't want.

[B]

Yo, you don't see you coming, you.

[A]

Know, Any meetings you took where you Were like, this might be my.

[B]

Yeah, So I had stuck up a social club, which is where mob guys hang out, me and my partner. I tell the story in a bunch of podcasts. But this is when I thought we got stuck up. I'll cut to the chase. We did something. We're unsupported. We stuck up a card game, and we had to go to the funeral parlor basement.

[A]

Whoa. That's what I was.

[B]

Careful.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

I wasn't even gonna go.

[A]

And you talked your way out of it.

[B]

No, but it was kind of, like, situated where we would just get a little beaten from our people and, you know, give the stuff back, and then that was it.

[A]

Damn. So going to card games in Robin was a big thing for you?

[B]

Depth. It's that pound.

[A]

So you weren't about to do it?

[B]

No, we were doing it, though. Supposed to do it. Yeah. So, you know. But you definitely get killed. All that.

[A]

There's a scene of that. And what's that movie, Goodfellas, where they rob a card game? That was at a different movie.

[B]

It's Sopranos. Sopranos. So, yeah. But, yeah, we were sticking up. We were doing a lot of armed robberies. That's how I started off with my partners. We were doing a lot of scores. And then, you know, we went to loan shock and sports betting. And then now we got recruited by the Bonaro family, and then we started doing work for them.

[A]

Were they the biggest family out of the five?

[B]

They said there's no bigger family than the other. I guess you may say at one time, the Gambinos were the biggest, but usually I like to keep it equal. Nobody's above anybody in their life. That's how. When you learn that out of the five families, no one's above anybody. Honors are all equal. You're a member, you're a member. There's no difference. You know, I don't care what family you from. You still get the same respect.

[A]

And they work together, right, the family?

[B]

They do, yes. But when it comes down to, like, beef, they'll take, you know, their sides. But usually, yeah, we're all friends. You know, I have friends, all the crews and families, and we did things together. But you got to be careful. There's a lot of rules with that. You can't get a fault in their beef. You know, there's a lot of things, you know, I mean, it's a lot of technicality, should I say?

[A]

All right, you know, were you in any beefs with certain families? Any wars at the computer?

[B]

Um, no. More with the Albanians.

[A]

Albanians.

[B]

We used to fight with them a lot. But, yeah, there was definitely beefs within us, you know what I mean? Like crews or people that were beefing with each other inside the crew.

[A]

That happens a lot, you know what happened with Albanians?

[B]

They didn't like us when they came over, so they were trying to run all the Italians out of their spots. Yeah, yeah, we weren't having it.

[A]

Oh. So it got violent.

[B]

Very violent. They were dragging mud buys out of their restaurants.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, it got really crazy in the Bronx in certain areas. It was getting wild, you know.

[A]

Holy crap. I didn't know that. Yeah, but the Italians are the biggest.

[B]

Well, we were, and then we softened up because the generation started getting richer and richer. You know, they weren't hungry no more. You know, their grandpas and fathers paved the way for these kids not to do anything no more. So why are they in the street running around with guns?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Albanians are coming over, starving, like we did originally.

[A]

Got it. So it's cycles, cycles. So right now, where do you think they're at?

[B]

Mafia. It's a Mafia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's dead.

[A]

It's completely dead.

[B]

Pretty much dead. It's there. It'll always be there. You'll always have your sports betting, your legal gambling, your extortion, you know, unions things. But the. The. The real organized crime, the fear of being killed, of shot brought, you know, that's gone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, all the movies, that stuff is all gone. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Or any of those shows or movies. Actor.

[B]

Yes. Goodfellas is so active.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. It's my neighborhood, basically.

[A]

That's my favorite one.

[B]

I worked for the guy who's charged with Lufthansa. I worked for him personally.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Vinnie Asaro.

[A]

Did you have input on movie?

[B]

No, no, no, I'm saying. But he was charged with that. Latanza. I worked for him. Oh, wow. Later on in life, that was my boss. Oh, yeah.

[A]

What was outlier?

[B]

He was psychotic. You're a nut job. And he's our. And knows who he is, you know, He's a psychopath, you know? Well, he was. I got along with him, but he was crazy.

[A]

Okay. What ended up happening?

[B]

He died. He ended up dying.

[A]

In prison?

[B]

No, down the street. Oh, yeah. But he was just a psychopath. He had beat that trial. Not guilty, no charges.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How many times did they try to trial you?

[B]

I did 13 years total in prison.

[A]

Just the first trial.

[B]

Got no, just no. I mean, in and out. I did 13 years to my life, but, you know, I Been too many cases.

[A]

Serious. You met some interesting people in prison. I want to go through. So.

[B]

Yes, I have.

[A]

So I'm a big crypto guy. So you messed that free.

[B]

Yes, I looked at a hole for Sam Bacon free.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was he like?

[B]

He was weird. It is super weird. But, you know, I mean, you know, he didn't fit in. You know, I thought he's going to get life like 50 years. He was supposed to. For what? I was told the only reason why he didn't get the 50 or 75 years he was supposed to, because his victims actually said not to do that to him.

[A]

Really?

[B]

The people that were robbed for the money?

[A]

Well, he got like 20. 25 though.

[B]

I. 27. I don't agree with giving him that much time for. Really. I just don't.

[A]

What?

[B]

I don't think. I know guys that have premeditated murder. They get 20 years in the Feds. You know, I don't understand, you know, killing someone and taking money.

[A]

You think it's different.

[B]

It's so different. It does not fit. You're not supposed to. You're supposed to get five years. They'll create some money back. You don't belong getting 30 years, 100 years for taking money. I'm sorry.

[A]

I think they wanted to make an example because it was so big.

[B]

No. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. But it's at the end day. It don't fit. It don't make sense. I have friends with murders. I'm telling you, kill people, 30 years, 27 years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[A]

You know, I don't.

[B]

It's right.

[A]

Was he targeted right away in there? No.

[B]

Yeah, not really. But you could see they were going to be, you know, I mean, he's.

[A]

Got money, so there's tons of money to help and.

[B]

Tons of money. Yeah.

[A]

Damn. So you had a. You. You stepped in there, right? That's how.

[B]

Yeah, I tried to get him. I ended up fighting the kid, getting him and I went to the hole, went home from the box, so.

[A]

Jeez. How long were you in there?

[B]

I did a total on that bit. I did like 90 days in the hole, man.

[A]

Dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We going all crazy.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I was, you know, but I'm. I've done lots of whole time, so I was not used to it. But, you know, it sucks. But you got to do it. There's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you could do. You're there. It's it. You're not going nowhere. You could scream, you could cry, you could dig. You're not going nowhere. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

You got the Bible, though, right?

[B]

You know, you're by yourself. You know what I mean? There's nothing you're doing.

[A]

Were you reading the Bible?

[B]

I was. I don't know what I was doing. Right. Pacing.

[A]

Do you think they should remove the hole?

[B]

These prisons, then they have a will, actually. The state is trying to. The government will put you in the hole for 18 months. But I don't even. And don't even care. The feds is up, man. The state is a lot better now than the feds. The feds is really up right now.

[A]

So you got to go to a state for.

[B]

They're not a. Yeah, Feds is really up right now. They'll put your investigation and put you in all the six months holy. And then tell you the investigation's up. And then.

[A]

So they don't like you, you're fucked.

[B]

Well, not they don't like you, it's just that their punishments are a lot more harsh.

[A]

Yeah. Which prison was the toughest for you?

[B]

Rikers Island. It's probably one of the worst prisons I've ever been to. At home. It's so violent. Oh, really chaotic.

[A]

Level four.

[B]

Oh, dirty. It's just beyond that. I mean, it's just chaos. I mean, it's just no structure. It's just five boroughs at war.

[A]

Oh, all the mob guys are there.

[B]

No, all the gang members are there.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Mob guys are there. Oh, shit.

[A]

So you had no one?

[B]

No one there. She saw gangs.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Just killing other all day.

[A]

Holy. So you were just on your own in the middle?

[B]

Oh, yeah. You know, it was just crazy.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Yeah, it was a horror show.

[A]

I just went to Alcatraz. They got rid of that one quick.

[B]

That's gone.

[A]

People couldn't handle that one. I think when you're on an island, there's just.

[B]

Psychologically, you're like, yeah, it's still pelican bed, Right. Is that Pelican Bay? Is that one of the best out there in California?

[A]

I haven't heard about one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's one of the bad ones. I mean, there's still a lot of bad spots in California and stuff like that, but New York, the worst places, right? Because I'll.

[A]

New York in General, the court system, 96 conviction rate. Yeah, it's like the worst state to go to court in.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Is that where you did yours?

[B]

Yeah. All New York.

[A]

Yeah. You're not winning there no, you're not.

[B]

But I'll tell you one thing, their Federal Circuit is better than any other federal circuit.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah. You go to other circuits, their time is way more.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They give a lot more time out in the feds and other states. I wonder why New York actually is the best place to be sentenced for federal.

[A]

I didn't know that. It is.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

It's just not for state, though. State.

[B]

You're getting state. Yeah. But if you go to other states, like for federal. It's absolutely horrifying.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Like, they give you 20 years for a pound of dope. It's crazy. Other states, you know, federals, and now.

[A]

Wheat's legal and people are still in jail.

[B]

Well, if you cross state lines, it's not right.

[A]

Did you ever get in drug game.

[B]

When you were robbing drug dealers? We did a lot of that. Did a lot of robbing drug dealers. We did a lot of. I've sold drugs, obviously, but we. More robbing.

[A]

When you were planning these robberies, how intricate was it? How much planning went into it? Or was it on the spot?

[B]

No, this is hard. We were doing it.

[A]

Casing it.

[B]

We were doing it professionally? Yeah, yeah, professionally. You're doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, tracking devices on you. Oh, yeah. Watching you, you know, decoy. Cause nice cars. Haunting cars with different plates on them, you know, different people follow you, you know, trying. You know, we kidnap you kidnap. You know, a few before, stuff like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that much went into it.

[B]

Yeah, doing a lot.

[A]

What was the biggest score?

[B]

Uh, well, we hit jewelry stores as well, so. I mean, I've hit a jewelry store for. Well, they said it was 2 million, but it wasn't. It was 1 million, but yeah, I hit 1 million.

[A]

You don't got a million berries somewhere?

[B]

No, no, I wish.

[A]

Well, they're gonna say that for the insurance claim.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, they did, exactly. That was in 2005. We hit it in the middle.

[A]

Damn. 2 million back then.

[B]

Yeah, we hit in 2005. That was.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

It's almost 20 years ago.

[A]

I had the biggest jewelry thief on the show. I'm trying to remember his name. Dude, there's a bald guy. But yeah, he said he hit. Jory was a good.

[B]

Yeah, I was a big guy. I was a big score guy. I like the heist, you know, I like a lot of stuff.

[A]

He liked the adrenaline.

[B]

Yeah, I did. I was a stick up guy, you know, I did a lot of stuff like that, but, you know, in general, I was just a ballsy dude. So, you know, I liked all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah. You also met Fetty Waber.

[B]

That was my buddy. Yeah, I was a Fetty Wab.

[A]

He's in right now, right?

[B]

Yeah. He gave him six years.

[A]

And that's when you met him, recently?

[B]

Yeah, I met him in prison. Yeah. He was a cool guy, man.

[A]

I was shocked when he got busted for drugs.

[B]

I know. Well, his situation is kind of messed up, but, you know, I can tell you one thing. He's a good person. I got along with him very well. I didn't think he was gonna be cool like that. He actually was.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Cool guy like you were allowed because.

[A]

Usually they separate the race.

[B]

No, no, no. We're all together.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, everything's cool. He was a cool guy.

[A]

Okay. Because I thought the blacks were separate. Nah, not. Not prison.

[B]

No, they weren't. Everybody's hanging.

[A]

Which prison was up?

[B]

Mdc, Brooklyn. Okay. Wow, you got your clicks. But everybody was friendly with each other.

[A]

You know, because the movies you just.

[B]

See, like, that's like penitentiary stuff. I'll just go behind the walls and stuff like that, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Any attempts on your life in prison, or were they all outside?

[B]

No, mostly outside, but I was on a lot of jail beach. But mostly everything was straight. I feel that. Yeah.

[A]

But you're completely done. You're done with it?

[B]

Yeah, I've been done. You know, I go to jail for stupid, you know, like, not even jail, dumb violation, probations, you know, stuff for your girl, you know, like that nonsense, you know, nothing that was known for because that was the case, I'd be doing life. I mean, how do you fight off.

[A]

Those adrenaline urges, though?

[B]

Well, I. I just don't want to die in jail. That's what's gonna happen. You know what I mean? You know, you're gonna get caught. You know, nobody gets away. You get along, wait for only a certain amount of time, and then it's the same, man. They're not gonna tell everybody.

[A]

Yeah. So reflecting where you're at now and seeing all your peers either gone or jail, how does that feel?

[B]

Everyone's gone or jail or cooperate or everyone I know.

[A]

Does it make you question, like, why did I survive this?

[B]

Yeah, everyone says that. I don't. I don't. I don't know how I made it to my. The 40 years old that I am right now, you know, I mean, aggressive. I'm not for your mouth.

[A]

For like, oh, you did it.

[B]

Absolutely. I was, you know, I was on my mind.

[A]

I think someone's got a Plan for you?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. I really believe that this TV show is going to crack off. I think that's what it's supposed to be, I think. And then my neighborhood really wants that. It's going to talk about like the five boroughs in the neighborhood and the modern day Mafia. And I think everyone's going to really love that shit.

[A]

What's the premise of the show?

[B]

So it's basically about modern day Mafia. Everyone always has Mike Francis you have on, right. He's from the 70s, the 80s. John got all those guys from the 70s and 80s. I'm the only guy here with the modern day giving you all the stuff from our day. So, you know, it's something new. It's like a modern day what went on in Mafia in our time.

[A]

Right. Did you ever deal with Gotti?

[B]

The grandkid worked for me.

[A]

Oh, yeah?

[B]

Yeah. One of his grandsons was my guy.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he would tell you stories about him?

[B]

Well, no, I mean, my. My uncle's. My uncle was above him at one time. You know, my rare part. Knew him. You know, I was like a soap opera. We all know each other. You know, I never met him, but, you know, obviously, you know, all my friends, families work for him and people like that, you know.

[A]

Yeah. His downfall was. Was rough.

[B]

Yeah, he knew it. But, you know, I gotta say, he. He knew what his outcome was and he was okay with it.

[A]

Oh, he was okay with it.

[B]

He was okay. He knew he was gonna die in prison. He was the most watched guy in America at one time. I mean, no way he was going. He killed pork Icelando in the middle of the street in front of a steakhouse, you know, he knew where he was going. He had the, you know, thousands of people on them. He knew where he was going. He wanted to go out like that.

[A]

You know, did, you know he killed him right away or did it take.

[B]

I mean, I was a baby. But I mean, obviously everyone blamed, you know, blamed him, obviously.

[A]

Yeah. Him and Sammy, right?

[B]

Yeah, he's a new boss. I mean, you know.

[A]

Have you ever talked to Sammy?

[B]

Yeah, I was on a show with him.

[A]

Oh, you are?

[B]

Yeah, a few times. I just went on Beverly Hills. Oh, nice. Yeah.

[A]

What was that like?

[B]

Cool. I like Sammy.

[A]

Yeah, he's. Man, his show is awesome.

[B]

Yeah, he's cool, Sandy, man.

[A]

He's got.

[B]

Me and my cousin Anthony did it together.

[A]

Oh, yeah?

[B]

Yeah, it was cool.

[A]

Yeah. Because I know he had a lot of. A lot of enemies.

[B]

Oh, my God. Kill a lot of people.

[A]

He might have the record, right?

[B]

No, not the record. Yeah, but he's got a lot of murders for Mafia.

[A]

He's got to be up there.

[B]

He's up there, but, you know, you got guys like Tommy Karate, Gregory Scarpa Roy, the Mayo. These guys kill 50 plus people.

[A]

Holy.

[B]

Yeah, it's a whole new ball game.

[A]

50 plus.

[B]

Oh, easy. Yeah.

[A]

So back then, it was easier to do it.

[B]

Yeah, they. They were. These guys were serial killers. You know, they would be killing without the Mafia.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 50 plus. I mean.

[B]

Yeah. Tommy Karate, they claim he's. Who know. They say the numbers are accountable.

[A]

She is.

[B]

Yeah. Serial killer, murder. And Gregory Scrapper, too. Gregory Scrapple goes back to the 50s, killing people all the way to the 90s.

[A]

God damn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're finding bodies in the Lake of Vegas. Oh, every other year.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

Damn. The mob was big in Vegas, right?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And so that was a few mil.

[B]

That was Chicago, Mom.

[A]

That was a Chicago, mom. It doesn't seem like anymore. They're.

[B]

No, they're all gone. It's all. It's all watered down. The only thing left is the five boroughs, really. And it's not really like. No, nothing really.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah, it's nothing. Like.

[A]

What about in Italy? Is it still big in Italy?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So why did it survive there but not the US because the laws and.

[B]

The way the world works, it's just much different over there, you know? I mean, same reason why Canada is so crazy with the Mafia. Canada, they have no rico.

[A]

Oh, so is the RICO that.

[B]

Yeah. Kind of still killing everybody? They kill each other out there all the time.

[A]

Wow. So that RICO was really effective then?

[B]

Absolutely. Us, you get life and nothing.

[A]

Right. And they would get, like 20 guys at once.

[B]

Oh, forget. They created that law to get the people that were the puppet masters.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Get the guys in the shadows.

[A]

You were probably freaking out when I came out.

[B]

No, I mean, I was young. I was. I wasn't even known. But I know when I got hit with it. I know what it does to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everyone around you. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

What percentage of people switch when that hits?

[B]

It depends, you know, I mean, like, I was a guy facing forever in a day. So most of the time, you won't cooperate unless you're facing, like, you know, life. 30 years, 40 years. Most guys I know, you know, most of my friends that cooperated got five murders, three murders, death penalty case. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. You cooperated about five years. You're a jerk off. You should have never been in the street.

[A]

All right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? You should have never even thought about coming out your house, doing any him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

So if you didn't cooperate, what would have happened?

[B]

Became a member and I would be running Ronnie's crew. I be in prison right now actually doing a lot more time.

[A]

Wow. So you're not the right move.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was probably the toughest decision you've ever made in your life, right?

[B]

Yeah, it was.

[A]

Cuz you lost all your friends and.

[B]

No, I lose. Oh, you did?

[A]

People didn't.

[B]

People love me, man. They knew the situation I was in. My cousin wore a wire on me. Everyone told on me that my little brother was getting got a gun charge. It was just. I was in such a bad position, you know what I'm saying? I got over royally. But yeah, I still talk to a lot of people.

[A]

Okay. How insane was the money?

[B]

No, I. I was never a multimillionaire. I made good money. I made that by high. 40,000amonth, you know, that was like decent, you know I'm saying. But I was more of like the violent guy. I was doing a lot of dirty work. But at my high, I was making like 40,000amonth plus. Cause you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, but you had to psycho it up too, so.

[B]

Yeah, I was. I was about to start making some real. My Boss was making 400,000amonth.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

Yeah. Which boss was Ronnie G. Alonzo?

[A]

Was he on that top 50 list they made?

[B]

No, what he should be. Yeah, Millions of dollars. He lived in a three million dollar house. You know, he's big money.

[A]

Damn. Which boss do you think had the most money?

[B]

I would say of all time. Wow. It's a tough one. I mean, mine was big. Joe Messino had a lot. 7 million gold balls in his house. I mean, you got a bunch of these guys, it's hard to say, but they say Frank Costello was the richest gangster ever. So.

[A]

And he was one of the first. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What about recent ones though?

[B]

Right now there's so much money, I don't know, you can't even say. You know what I mean? It's a long sharking, right? Yeah. You know, they just have so many businesses and so many things you don't even know.

[A]

Yeah, because now they're cleaning it, right?

[B]

They're putting in business millions and millions of dollars.

[A]

A lot of these guys have, you know, real estate. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Was there any activity in Jersey when.

[B]

You were Part of it.

[A]

I.

[B]

We didn't deal with them.

[A]

You didn't do it?

[B]

Yeah, I really deal with Jersey over there, you know, I mean, there is. There's cruise branches off in there, but we didn't really deal with them.

[A]

Got it. Because the Sopranos was Jersey.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. That's more 80. Soprano is based off a guy named I the ocean. And that was, like, a long time ago, you know, the 80s.

[A]

Yeah. How accurate was that show?

[B]

Pretty accurate.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You never know with these movies and shows.

[B]

Yeah, it's pretty accurate, you know, and then you have consultants on these shows. Remember that? Like me on the low. Right. That might have been a mob guy in Jersey. And they pay them to give them stories, so that's how they get stories.

[A]

Oh, I feel that I'm humped to see your show, man. What is that job?

[B]

Well, you know, working on it right now, you know, just had a nice meeting yesterday. We're trying to get this thing rolling.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Anything else you're working on?

[B]

So I might come out with a podcast again. I was thinking about it. You know, I was doing again with Johnny Eli, but I'm thinking about doing a solo and trying to go on to, like, my own platform. I was. I was thinking about it, you know, but I got a lot of things going on. I really want to focus on that TV show because that's what I really want.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, that's. That's my goal.

[A]

Yeah. We'll link your stuff below, man. And if you do start a pod, I'll help you out. I'll get you on Rumble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get the amount of power.

[B]

That's a cool man. Thank God. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, absolutely, man.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for watching, guys. Suma.