← Digital Social Hour
Digital Social Hour
Protect Your Wealth: Tax Secrets Every Entrepreneur Must Know | Edward Collins DSH #1254
00:47:40
Protect your wealth and gain financial freedom! 💼💸 In this episode of the Digital Social Hour, Sean Kelly sits down with Edward Collins, an expert in financial strategies for entrepreneurs, to uncover the tax secrets every entrepreneur must...
Loading summary
Transcript240 lines
- [00:01]
A
Like wars throughout history. He would basically say that the start of every war was because of the have nots wanting what the haves have. But the same thing happens in business, right? The have nots want what you have. Right. There's individuals like creditors, litigants, opportunists. Right. They're at any moment in time, they're ready to pounce, to take their fair share, if you will, of your pot. Oh, yeah, right.
- [00:26]
B
All right, guys, got Edward Collins here. We are in Las Vegas for funnel hacking live. He will be speaking. Thanks for coming on, man.
- [00:31]
A
Absolutely. It's a pleasure.
- [00:33]
B
Absolutely. What. What are you going to talk about?
- [00:36]
A
Russell's asked me to essentially host a roundtable because Russell spends a lot of his time teaching business owners how to make money.
- [00:42]
B
Yeah.
- [00:42]
A
I teach them how to protect it, and that's important.
- [00:45]
B
And I feel like a lot of people are good at making money but not protecting it.
- [00:49]
A
Most people don't know how to. Yeah, that's the. We don't learn a lot of things from a financial literacy standpoint school. So you sort of like wing your way at making the dollars, but you have to hope and pray that you get to keep it. I mean, challenge.
- [01:03]
B
Yeah. You learn pretty much nothing when it comes to absolutely nothing protecting it. And I went to business school too, for a little bit and I don't remember a single topic or class about it, so. Very valuable thing to know. Right.
- [01:13]
A
I try. It's important when it. When you look at life. Right. It's like I talk about the things that are, like, really important to fight for. Like, financial freedom is the most important freedom to fight for in life because it leads to all of the freedoms, leads to freedom of education, freedom of health care, freedom of mobility, freedom of security, the freedom of choice. So if you're going to fight for anything, you want to become financially free. Yeah, but the problem is we're not set up to get that outcome. Right. Like in school, they spend all their time, effort and energy just trying to teach you to memorize certain things to make you productive and manipulated within society. Right. Like, you follow the rules so that you essentially can do the things that the society needs you to get done. But that's not necessarily what you would want to do if you had the choice.
- [01:56]
B
Right.
- [01:56]
A
The choice is about having actual freedom.
- [01:59]
B
Yeah.
- [01:59]
A
And the only thing that makes that possible is financial freedom.
- [02:02]
B
And you had to do a lot of school as a lawyer.
- [02:04]
A
Well, yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are certain things about education that are important and critical, but it's what you do in the confrontation of education that actually, actually get you to fine tune your knowledge base. Right. It's like, how do you, how do you, how do you cut a diamond? You need another diamond. Right. So typically you want to go out and get experience through other people, like mentorship, individuals who've been through it. There's only so much you can learn from the book. It's the application of that knowledge in the real world that makes the difference.
- [02:33]
B
Absolutely. Did you know what type of lawyer you wanted to be prior to law school?
- [02:37]
A
No. I mean, I had always had an interest in finance, like, even from like, like young age, but I didn't come from money. So pretty much everything I learned about money happened after the fact. My family, like, we had to struggle really hard just to get up to the poverty line. So pretty much everything I learned was wrong about money. Money is simply a tool. But once I learned how money actually works, I could put it to work in the real world. But it definitely wasn't, it wasn't easy. I made a lot of mistakes year after year as I was getting started.
- [03:07]
B
I bet. Yeah. Because a lot of people are stuck in that lower middle class and they just. I feel like a lot of them don't have the education around money and that's why they're stuck.
- [03:14]
A
Right. Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of things that hold people back. Ignorance is probably the biggest thing. And I mean that in the genuine sense of the word, just not having the information. Right. There's two different versions of ignorance. You have ignorance of not knowing something, but you also have the version of ignorance where you know something, it's. But it's just not true.
- [03:32]
B
Right.
- [03:32]
A
And that's obviously the worst one. Right. Because you believe something so wholeheartedly that you. It's very difficult to be persuaded elsewise. Right. Like you, you're so set that, that money is a, a limited commodity. The reality is all money follows value creation. And if you go out in the world and create value, that means there's no limit to the amount of money you can actually get. But we're not taught those types of things in school. You're taught about like, how do I follow the rules and how do I. How do I spend the next 32 minutes going through a particular course, wait for the bell to ring, get up from the class and move on to the next thing? Because whatever I was working on is not as important as moving on to the next thing that the system wants you to move on to.
- [04:11]
B
Yeah, I love that value creation, that's important. People should focus on that. Yeah, absolutely. Because they don't. They teach you to get a high paying job, but what's the skill that's getting you that job?
- [04:19]
A
Well, I'd even argue that they don't teach you how to get a high paying job. Right. They sort of hold that out as the carrot, the thing to motivate you because they think they help to instill that that's the thing that brings you joy and will bring you happiness. But it's very rare that money itself brings you happiness. It's learning what to do with money. Right. Because money doesn't solve all problems, but it definitely solves money problems a lot. So if you think about like, how do you utilize money in such a way to bring on the opportunity for fulfillment? That's the big difference. Because happiness is an emotion and that means it's fleeting. If you're going to strive for something, you want to strive for fulfillment, that sense of completeness.
- [04:59]
B
Agreed. Searching for the perfect job can be overwhelming. You know it's out there, you just don't know how to find it. The good news, you don't have to do it alone. Shout out to today's sponsor, Specialized Recruiting Group. Specialized Recruiting Group is here to help personalized job search support. Tailored to your skills and needs, they connect job seekers with contract and full time roles. The best part is that it's completely free for job seekers. Specialized Recruiting Group is ready to find the talent you need. Go to srgpros.com see how our recruitment specialists with a deep understanding of experience and expertise you need can find the right fit for your business. After all, you deserve to see the best candidates possible, both active and passive. Visit srgpros.com today to start your job search. If you don't see the right job listed, SRG also recruits for confidential roles. Just call a local office to learn more. Take the next step in your career today@srgpros.com when you wanted to become a lawyer, was that heavily due to money?
- [06:03]
A
It really wasn't. As a kid I was sort of like inspired by the concepts of law. Right. I had gotten involved in like mock trial in high school and I just enjoyed that aspect of things, the whole debate concept of it. And I, when I actually went out into the world, I didn't start going into law as a beginning. Like I actually started working on the dark side. So I worked for the government for a bit.
- [06:25]
B
Really?
- [06:25]
A
Yeah. I worked for the United States Department of Justice. I got to see behind the curtain Because I was misguided. I, I had believed that that was what you would do as a citizen to really show your patron, yeah, right. Work for the government. But when I saw behind the scenes, behind the curtain, I learned that I actually hate the government. And like I say that, and some people will take me the wrong way when I say it right, because I genuinely mean I actually hate the government. I love America because I think America is the land of the free and it gives you the opportunity to actually excel. But that's not what government is. Government is a structure system that is not necessarily designed for the well being of the one. It's oriented and I'm not necessarily saying design, but oriented towards the well being of the collective. But the challenge with that is it often leaves behind those who wish to excel because excel and collective don't really go together. So if you sit back and you look at how the government is, is structured, there's so many opportunities for mismanagement, fraud, abuse, you, you name it. Just general corruption.
- [07:35]
B
I mean, you're seeing it now with the usaid.
- [07:37]
A
Oh my goodness. Like everything that's being now brought to the light is like, I sit back, I was having a conversation with a bunch of business owners just recently. We were talking about just the, the nuance of the, the stuff that's coming out with, with what Doge is reporting, again, a lot alleged at the moment, but even in the alleged state, it's now coming to light that there's been significant opportunities for mismanagement of resources. I can't understand why more business owners are not absolutely livid. Right. Like if you think about the, the average business owner forks over 20 to 30% of every dollar that they make to the government.
- [08:17]
B
Yeah.
- [08:18]
A
With this belief, at least in the beginning, that those dollars are going to go for good works, but they're not in any way contemplating that's going to go for some of the ridiculousness that's come to light as to where those dollars have been spent and spent without necessarily any oversight. I mean, there's supposed to be oversight in the government. Right. But where is it and where's the accountability? And that's what I think that once this starts to really flush out, I think that's where a lot of business owners specifically are going to sit back and say, well, why am I, why am I sending a single dollar to the irs? Right, right. And that's where I come in. Like, I teach business owners how to essentially learn how to legally and ethically keep more of every dollar. That's being made. Because I genuinely believe that the entrepreneur is the one who actually changes the.
- [09:04]
B
World, not the government.
- [09:05]
A
Not the government. Think about it. If you had to rely on the government to fix a pothole or an entrepreneur to do it, who would you trust?
- [09:13]
B
Entrepreneur all day, 100%.
- [09:14]
A
Right. Why? Because the entrepreneur is going to use their dollars the best can, the most efficiently and effectively to get the outcome, which is a paved road so they can sell their goods and services. Now, don't get me wrong, there are certain things the government does really well, like. Well. Should do really well. Should do really well. Like protecting our sovereignty. I think that that is something the government should be responsible for protecting, you and I as citizens. Right. Protecting our lives. Right. The government should be set up to do that. Protecting our property. But beyond that, now we get into a challenge. Right? Because think about it. Like, imagine for a moment that you love chocolate and that I hate it. Right. Don't get me wrong, I love chocolate. So I'm actually playing devil's advocate here. But you love chocolate. I hate chocolate. Why is it just, in any sense of the word for you to take my money to give to someone else so they can have chocolate? Not just someone else. Someone who's not even in our country so they can have chocolate. How's that just? Now, reality is, if you love chocolate that much and you want that to happen, there are mechanisms where you personally can make it happen. The government doesn't have to step in to take my money to make it happen.
- [10:22]
B
Right.
- [10:22]
A
You as an individual can say, let's go to a charity that provides chocolate to other individuals or you could set up your own charity. Right. There's mechanisms by which people can accomplish the nuanced goals and objectives they have. I just don't think it's right for the government to force me to do it.
- [10:37]
B
Yeah, I'd rather send money to charity than irs.
- [10:39]
A
Absolutely.
- [10:39]
B
I mean, that's actually doing some great things for people.
- [10:41]
A
Well, depending on the charity.
- [10:43]
B
Right, right.
- [10:44]
A
There's mismanagement everywhere, but at least with a charity, there's much more transparency, opportunity. Like they. They can't even account for the billions of dollars that have gone to undisclosed recipients.
- [10:53]
B
Right.
- [10:54]
A
Like, think about that. Like the government that. I was watching this interview. I don't. I don't remember who it was, but it was just recent where they were talking about spending under the Pentagon. Right. And they were. They. The person being interviewed was essentially arguing that just the fact that they have not passed an audit does not necessarily mean that there's Fraud, waste, and abuse that has occurred. But that's absolutely the case. If you can't tell where a dollar has gone, how's anyone expected to believe that it wasn't utilized in ways that shouldn't have been utilized?
- [11:26]
B
Right, right.
- [11:27]
A
If you can't just follow the money, that's a problem.
- [11:30]
B
And that's not a small amount of money. You're.
- [11:32]
A
No, we're talking about billions of dollars. Like, again, a lot of people don't have context because it's very hard to put those numbers into something that's, like, reasonable. So the way I try to do it with. With the business owners that I mentor is I try to put it in a context you can understand. Like, as an example, how. How many dollars would you have if a million seconds had passed and you got a dollar for every second?
- [11:53]
B
A million.
- [11:54]
A
Right. You'd have a million dollars. Right. But how. How long would it take you to get to that million? How long would it take you to get to a million dollars if you got a $1 per second per second?
- [12:03]
B
It's tough because then you got a calculator.
- [12:05]
A
Right. About 12 days.
- [12:06]
B
12. 12 days, yeah. Okay.
- [12:07]
A
How long would it take you to get a billion dollars if you got a dollar per second?
- [12:11]
B
That'd be 12 times, what, a hundred.
- [12:13]
A
About 32 years.
- [12:14]
B
32 years, right.
- [12:15]
A
That's the difference between a million and a billion. And a trillion would take you 32,000 years to get to a trillion dollars. And our government, I mean, we spend on average about $7 trillion a year.
- [12:27]
B
Holy crap.
- [12:28]
A
As just a function. And we collect about $5 trillion of taxes, so we borrow the rest. Right. But every dollar that the government spends is taxation, like every dollar it spends because government. Government doesn't make money. It takes money and redistributes it. And I have big problems with how it chooses to redistribute most of the time.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah, right.
- [12:46]
A
That's my personal opinion. But the reality is that's what they engage in. But every dollar they spend is a taxed dollar. Now, you may say, well, Edward, didn't you just say we. We only raise $5 trillion, but we spend 7, so that the other 2 is not taxes? Well, it is, because that borrowed dollar creates inflation and inflation is a tax. Right. It's just one that hasn't been voted on. That happens via policy. These are the things that get me fired up.
- [13:14]
B
Yeah, no, that's fascinating. So basically, if we're collecting 5 trillion a year with the IRS and Trump saying he wants to remove the IRS?
- [13:20]
A
Yeah, I don't, I don't think it's actually going to happen that way. I love where he's going with it, but the reality is in order to accomplish something like that, you'd have to get enough buy in from the legislative branch in order to eliminate that agency.
- [13:32]
B
Right.
- [13:33]
A
And I just don't think that there's enough momentum currently within the political landscape to make that happen. But I love where he's going with it because it's sort of like the art of the deal. Right. You state something that's so drastically disruptive, anything short of that still beneficial.
- [13:50]
B
Right.
- [13:50]
A
But looks really good compared, comparatively speaking. Like, think about like the, the issues with the tariffs as of late. Right. So let's tariff Canada, let's tariff Mexico. Now, is the reality that that tariff is going to come to fruition? Well, no, I mean we have already seen it. It's on pause now for another 30 days. Why? Because that is a dramatic disruptive type of concept. Whereas the things that happen now just short of that look really good in comparison, but are much more likely to happen.
- [14:20]
B
Yeah.
- [14:21]
A
It inspires the conversation to get to an actual result. So saying that we're going to eliminate the IRS is extremely, dramatically disruptive, but it could lead to us making major reform, which is already starting to come out. Trump has announced his policies with regard to what he would love to happen with regard to the tax code. Obviously a lot of stuff has not even gone into committee yet to discuss, but the things he's looking for, like no taxation on tips, no taxation on overtime. Let's get rid of some of the high level loopholes that some billionaires are utilizing exclusively and those are very much manageable. Let's, let's grandfather in, or at least redeem if you will, the cuts that happened under his first administration. Let's make them permanent. Like all of those things are short of eliminate the irs. Very doable with regard to the existing legislative branch and are still really good. Right. They're, they're, they're stimulative and it actually has a benefit to the middle portion of our, our American ecosystem. Right. So if you look at middle America with regard to the, the middle class environment, all of those types of reforms, quote unquote reforms and revisions to the code would actually be stimulative to that segment. But media, at least traditional media, tends to focus on, on the hyperbole that happens.
- [15:38]
B
Yeah.
- [15:39]
A
And that's where it depends on where you get your information from as to what spin you're hearing. That's why I think a lot of people are unfortunately not served by our education system. Because our education system doesn't teach you how to go out into the marketplace and do your own research.
- [15:53]
B
Right. Well, the education system, at least at our college level, is very liberal.
- [15:56]
A
Oh yeah, there's, there's. Well, liberal is just one aspect of it. But I think again, it's not aimed at trying to teach you to be independent from a thinking. It's teaching you how to memorize so that you can answer the questions through the design with which they want you to answer the question. Don't get me wrong, it's very interesting to learn the Pythagorean theorem. Right. But how often are you going to actually apply that in your real life? But here's something to contrast it with. Think about it. Every person in the United States that earns money at some point in time is going to be required to file a tax return. If you earn money, you have to file a tax return. Why don't they teach you how to file your taxes in school?
- [16:33]
B
They don't.
- [16:34]
A
But why not? Like that's something you're required to do. Not everyone's going to be required to solve a theorem. Right, Right. But you're going to have to file your taxes. So that, that just goes to show you that the difference of the challenges that exist within our ecosystem, that is education, that doesn't really teach people how to be independent, how to be, to not just survive in life, but to thrive through it.
- [16:56]
B
Yeah.
- [16:57]
A
There's why I spend most of my time trying to help business owners learn these systems, to learn the real rules of the game so you can actually start playing to win.
- [17:03]
B
There were so many mistakes I made my first year of filing. First of all, I didn't even know you had to because I was a 19 year old kid and no one taught like you said. Second of all, my, my state LLC was based in New Jersey, so that's 7% for no reason. I could have made it in Delaware. And third of all, I already spent most of the money, so pretty much all the money I left went to the irs.
- [17:20]
A
Well, from a structural standpoint, there's, there is a difference between understanding your, your legal structure and your tax situation. Right. Because those are two different things a lot of people. Like again, I had a conversation with a business owner just a few weeks ago. They were talking to me. They said, edward, I want to save money on taxes, so where should I open my llc? Well, that is not the big question.
- [17:42]
B
Right.
- [17:43]
A
Like saving money on taxes has nothing to do with your legal structure. Your legal structure is about asset protection. Your tax regime is about how do you, how do you organize your business? What, how do you operate it? Where is it operating? Right. Because if you live in New Jersey, but open up a company in Delaware, that doesn't mean you escape the New Jersey income tax system. Right. Because if you're operating out of your home office in New Jersey, you're still going to be liable for New Jersey taxes.
- [18:06]
B
Interesting.
- [18:07]
A
So your structure and your tax environment are two different things. They are related and they should be contemplated together when you're designing something, but they are different decisions. Does that make sense?
- [18:19]
B
Yeah, it does. What if you have an office? Like a virtual agent or whatever?
- [18:23]
A
Yeah. Having a virtual office doesn't mean you're doing business actually at that virtual office location. Like you could set up a virtual office in Wyoming as an example.
- [18:30]
B
Yeah, right.
- [18:31]
A
But that doesn't mean you're actually doing business in Wyoming. If you're operating out of your, your home office in Florida, you're doing business in Florida. And even if you register your business in Wyoming, it still has to then register as a foreign entity doing business in Florida.
- [18:44]
B
Yeah.
- [18:45]
A
Now, Florida doesn't have a Florida level income taxation, but New Jersey does. California does. Like, there are a lot of states that are not necessarily tax friendly, but there are still ways to reduce your tax burden. Right. Legally. Right. There are legal and ethical methodologies by which you can keep more of every single dollar you make. It's just, again, these are not things that you're taught in school. In fact, a lot of accountants don't even follow these precepts because most accountants are taught to be compliance experts, which is essentially a glorified historian. They spend most of their time, their effort and their energy just trying to figure out how to best tell the IRS what already happened. It's a yesterday job. Tax strategies about what do I do next week, next month, next quarter to ensure that next year my tax burden is lowered? It's a process. Right. It's a, it's a methodology by which you're proactive. But again, most of the supposed professionals that are out and about in the ecosystem, they are not even doing it themselves. Right. That's, that's where I get into a lot of battles with most. Like most of my social media commentary is me talking, really reacting to the financial commentary that others are making. Right. Like I'll, one of the viewers will send my team a post. My team will put it on a phone. They'll hit record on the camera. I'll hit play. They'll record me watching it for the first time. And then I put the phone down and I just react and talk about whether or not what I just watched was legitimate or not legitimate. Is this something you should follow or shouldn't follow? And regardless, how can I add value to what was just being shared?
- [20:15]
B
Right.
- [20:15]
A
Because that's how you blew up financial literacy.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah. You gained a million followers in 10 months that way.
- [20:19]
A
Right? Yeah. I mean, we went from a little less than 6,000 followers in April of 2023. So we're about 3.2 million followers.
- [20:29]
B
Holy crap.
- [20:30]
A
All organic.
- [20:31]
B
Wow. Yeah. I saw you on Russell's show, and you were at a million, but that was a year ago. So you grew another 2 mil cents.
- [20:36]
A
Yeah. So across all of our socials, so we're on Instagram, we're like 1. 1.2 million.
- [20:41]
B
Yeah.
- [20:41]
A
Facebook, about 1 million. On TikTok, about 600,000.
- [20:45]
B
Nice.
- [20:46]
A
YouTube is our newest channel. We just passed 100. 116,000, I think.
- [20:51]
B
Got the silver plaque coming.
- [20:52]
A
Yeah, well, yeah.
- [20:54]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [20:54]
A
So it's interesting.
- [20:55]
B
That's a big one.
- [20:56]
A
But so here's the thing. All of that is a vanity metric. So that doesn't really matter to me. What really matters to me is the amount of people who actually put into practice the things that I share. Like, because it's more important not just to get information. Right. Because information leads to education, but education by itself doesn't lead to transformation facts. The only thing that leads to transformation is taking action. Like, you have to act on the information you get in order to get outcome. Right. All outcome requires action first. And that's what I focus on. That's why, like, we've created, like, private community. We've created opportunity for actual mentorship programs, coaching programs like that. That's our methodology by which we actually helped business owners actually transform their life.
- [21:37]
B
Right.
- [21:37]
A
Because transformation is what people really want. You want outcome. It's not enough to just sit back and go through a course or read a book. How do you put it into practice? It's not just what to do, but how to do it. That's what matters.
- [21:51]
B
Do you find a lot of misinformation videos in your space on social media?
- [21:55]
A
A lot.
- [21:55]
B
Because I see some wild ones about infinite banking, about trusts.
- [21:59]
A
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of individuals who know sound bites. Right. But the problem is, if you just get into understanding how the things really work, you recognize that they don't really know what they're talking about like the biggest commentary that happens, like towards the end of the year you'll see a ton of social media influencers talking about like buy, buy a G wagon.
- [22:18]
B
Right.
- [22:18]
A
The tax write off section 179 deductions. Well, in reality it's two different sections of the code. Right. 71, 79 and 168K. Right. There's two different sections that have to be used for that. The other thing is, why spend a dollar simply to get 30 cents in savings? Like that's not smart, that's not a prudent approach. Like I don't, I never want a business owner to spend a dollar to get 30 cents in savings. Unless that dollar would have been spent otherwise, like you would have spent it either way. Well then, yes, let's obviously capture as much deductions as we possibly can. Let's make it the most productive utilization of the dollar.
- [22:50]
B
Right.
- [22:51]
A
You don't just spend money to get a deduction. That seems to me very, very silly. Then you have a lot of social media influencers talking about how to essentially get credit. Use credit hacking as a business.
- [23:02]
B
Yeah, right.
- [23:02]
A
That's not a business. Like borrowing money through credit cards to go out and buy the car. Your dreams. That's not actually prudent at all. Right. In fact, that's probably fraud. There's a variety of things that happen on social media that you should definitely not listen to. And in fact, you shouldn't necessarily listen to my stuff too. Right. Like everything I share. You should question everything anyone shares, you should question, ask lots of questions. Ask. Well, how would I apply it in my situation? How do I actually get the outcomes that you're espousing? By actually putting into practice X, Y or Z. Yeah, that, that should be the process of actually getting the outcome.
- [23:38]
B
Yeah, I love that framework. Whenever I'm making an important decision, I get multiple opinions. I don't get one opinion.
- [23:42]
A
Yeah, well, getting one opinion is a way to essentially lock into an opportunity for a mistake.
- [23:48]
B
Right?
- [23:49]
A
Right. Because if you only have one path to follow, if that path is littered with potholes after a rain, you're going to have a lot of wet shoes. Right. So at the end of the day, having multiple paths to go down and having someone to guide you through it, that's the best course. Right. Find a mentor who's actually achieved the outcome that you wish to have, then reverse engineer the steps to get there. Because again, the fastest path to that shortcut is someone who has been there and can point out the things to avoid along that journey. 100%.
- [24:19]
B
Have you ever reacted to a video, went viral, and then the guy hit you up asking to debate or something?
- [24:23]
A
Yeah, we've had a couple of that. Not debate. Usually it's like protest in the form of. That's not what I meant. Right. Well, again, my reactions are always authentic. Like I, I don't see this stuff in advance. Like the. And then we don't source the videos. Like all of our community.
- [24:40]
B
Yeah.
- [24:40]
A
Sends videos in and whatever has the most videos is what we'll react to. Like most submissions. I should say so. From time to time, we'll get someone reaching back, saying, well, that's not what I actually meant and that's perfectly fine. My commentary is never against the person. It's about what's being shared. I love it because I've made thousands upon thousands of mistakes in my life, so I never want to attack the individual, but the information that's being shared should be challenged if it's inaccurate. And what I try to do is I try to point out where the inaccuracies occur and how someone could actually improve their situation. Like, what should you be doing or should you be considering with regard to the outcome?
- [25:19]
B
Yeah, yeah. Giving financial advice is all over social media, man. It's dangerous.
- [25:22]
A
It is. And again, the algorithm is going to send you the information that you've been interested in. So someone who's only like, looking at like knitting content, I could not necessarily see about deducting a G wagon, but, um, depending on what your personal interests are.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah.
- [25:37]
A
You'll get shown commentary and, and, and content that is aimed in that direction. But the real challenge is being able to filter through the junk and get the actual value.
- [25:47]
B
Yeah, well, some of them go mega viral when, when Grant Cardone bought the jet, I mean, that was everywhere.
- [25:52]
A
Yeah.
- [25:52]
B
I'm sure you, you got sent out one, right?
- [25:54]
A
Yeah. I mean, again, can you, can you get significant deductions from the, the purchase of business equipment? Absolutely. Is that the most productive use of most people's dollars? Probably not.
- [26:06]
B
Yeah. Unless you were already going to buy a jet.
- [26:08]
A
Yeah. If you were already going to buy a jet, well then, yeah, we want to maximize what is the best opportunity. I was talking with another business owner who's about to buy a jet. We were talking about the different opportunities, whether it's buying a jet as a whole jet, buying a fractional share, buying a jet card. I mean, there's different aspects of that and they all have different impact to your actual tax code.
- [26:26]
B
Yeah.
- [26:26]
A
Your, to your taxes, to your tax return. And when you look at, at making the best choice, it's going to be dependent upon what's actually going on in your life. Like what one person does is not necessarily what the, the next person should do. Right. In order to get the best outcome.
- [26:42]
B
Yeah. When Trump released his tax returns the first time he was running for president and it said $0, how shocked were you?
- [26:49]
A
Not at all. I mean, when you have money, you can afford the best advisors. Right. I've spent the past 30 years of my life diving deep into the tax code and learning how it is simply a recipe book. Right. And understanding that it is a, it's an incentive system. Right. A lot of people think of the tax code as, as an ability for the government to raise revenue, but we just talked about the fact that it doesn't even raise enough revenue for the amount of money we spent.
- [27:15]
B
Right.
- [27:16]
A
So the real reason behind the tax code is to incentivize you to do certain things and not do other things. And it does that through three carrots, deductions, credits, and the most beautiful word in the tax code, exclusions. Right. And when you learn how those operate, then you could start to say, well, how can I apply those three things in my business so that I get to keep more of every dollar I make?
- [27:38]
B
Yeah.
- [27:39]
A
Now you have to marry that approach with understanding what are your long term objectives. Because in year one, your objective may be, I just want to keep more of every single dollar so that I can stockpile dollars. I call that storage of capital. Because I'm eventually going to buy, let's say, investment real estate as an example. So in year two, I have to plan ahead because in year two I may be looking at getting financing. So I, I may not be in a position where I can necessarily drive my income down to close to zero because I want to be able to prove to a lender that I have revenue upon which they'll lend me money. So I have to make marry different strategies at different stages of my objectives.
- [28:15]
B
Yeah.
- [28:15]
A
Right. And that's where a lot of people make, make major issues. I was talking with someone actually last year around the same time at Funnel Hacking Live. I was in a group of business owners and I can remember, I can't remember her name, but I can remember her talking like in the group saying about the fact that she was denied, she was trying to get, she was trying to buy multifamily property, but the bank denied her loan application. She was making a lot of money, but on paper she wasn't showing any of it because she had, she had utilized different strategies to drive her revenue really, really low and the bank denied her, which is understandable. Now in her situation. What I shared with her is that there are different types of loans. Right. There are loans that are traditional in nature, but there are also loans that are a little bit more on the creative side of the spectrum. For instance, statement loans which are orient it more along the lines of you provide the bank with 12 to 24 months of your bank statements and that's what they're really leveraging, not your tax return. So looking at your bank statements to show what is your reasonable net cash flow that could potentially be available to support debt reserve, debt servicing. And that was an alternative for her, but, but for that, the other strategy would be to really change what you're doing year after year based on what your ultimate objectives are. Certain years, your objectives may be storage of capitals. Other years may be acquisition of assets which would require potentially financing. So you really have to work with the right strategist who understands how to maneuver things in such a way to help you get to the outcome.
- [29:47]
B
Absolutely. It really helped me with my home buying process having someone in my corner because similar to that woman, I didn't have the, the tax returns to get a good house. I had to use a bank statement like loan.
- [29:57]
A
Yeah. So there are tools and resources that are available, but you have to be in the know. And when you have financial wherewithal, you have the ability to hire the experts who actually are in the know. Like, you don't have to personally. You personally don't have to necessarily become the expert, but you have to know enough to be able to hire the expert. You have to have the financial wherewithal to be able to hire the expert. And sometimes you have to stretch. Like sometimes you may not be necessarily in a position right now to, to hire the best possible person that could help you, but maybe you can hire the next best. And even then it may be a stretch, but then you have to ask yourself, well, what is the best use of my capital today? Is it to get the best possible advice that I could start applying today? Because the compound effect of that over the next 10 years is dramatically better than waiting another year, waiting another two years before you could, quote, unquote, afford it?
- [30:49]
B
Oh, I had a stretch, believe me.
- [30:51]
A
But you got the outcome.
- [30:52]
B
I got the outcome. Here's here was my philosophy going into it. So I pay my advisor 72k a year, but I wanted to protect myself legally. I've been dealing with some Nasty lawsuits the past few years as I get bigger. And in my head I was like, wait, this will save me way more than 72k if I can pull that off.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah. When you make money, you become a target. Like, there. There are enemies at the gate. Right. So I had this professor in high school. His name was Mr. Man. He used to teach history, and he would teach, like, what wars? Throughout history. And he would basically say that the start of every war was because of the have nots wanting what the haves have. But the same thing happens in business, right? The have nots want what you have. Right. There's individuals, like creditors, litigants, opportunists. Right. They're at any moment in time, they're ready to pounce, to take their fair share, if you will, of your pot.
- [31:37]
B
Oh, yeah, right. They weren't hitting me up when I was broke.
- [31:39]
A
No.
- [31:40]
B
No.
- [31:40]
A
But neither was the irs.
- [31:42]
B
Right.
- [31:43]
A
So the IRS is sort of like that. That partner that everyone hates because they're only in it when times are good. Right. They're. They're absolutely interested in being your partner when you're making money. But when you're not making money, they're not coming up to the plate to help out. Right. So that's why I. I see that as a very unfair situation. It's unjust. Like, I. I believe that the IRS is essentially legalized mafia. Right. And taxation is not theft, it's extortion. Because the IRS has guns now.
- [32:08]
B
They do. Yeah.
- [32:08]
A
Yeah. Consequences to. To not doing what you're, quote, unquote, supposed to do. So what I do again is I help business owners learn how to outsmart them. Right. Like how to take what the code says, apply it in such a way where the result is you keep more of your own dollars.
- [32:24]
B
Yeah.
- [32:24]
A
And then you get to decide. Right. You could. You again, if you are charitable in nature, like be charitable, why give it to the government to be charitable?
- [32:32]
B
Yeah.
- [32:32]
A
That just doesn't make any sense to me.
- [32:34]
B
Well, there's a lot of benefits to the charity stuff, too.
- [32:36]
A
I heard there can be. Right. Again, there's a lot of misunderstanding about how that works as well. Right. Because there, you have limitations with regard to what you can contribute to get a tax deduction. Like you can. You can contribute 100% of your money. Right. You can do that, but that does not necessarily mean you reduce all of your taxable income to zero. Right. Because you're limited with regard to your adjusted gross income relative to the amount you can give away, whether you're talking about Cash assets or, or physical property, let's say, like if you wanted to donate or a car or a house or something like that. Like, there's limitations on how much you can give away that results in a tax benefit.
- [33:09]
B
Got it.
- [33:10]
A
That doesn't mean there's a limitation with how much you can give away. You can give away 100% of what you have right there. No one's going to stop you from doing that. But if you want the tax benefit of giving it away, well, then there are limitations. So you have to understand what the rules say with regard to what you want to achieve.
- [33:24]
B
Yeah. So I don't know if you saw when Oprah got the money from Kamala, but it was sent to her charity, right?
- [33:29]
A
Yeah.
- [33:30]
B
Was that because she wanted to keep more or how does that work?
- [33:33]
A
So again, the. There's a lot of things that the ultra wealthy will do with charitable entities that don't necessarily result in immediate charitable benefit. Like, so, as an example, you can create a foundation and you're only required to give away 5% of that foundation's assets in a given year. So if you donated a $100,000 to the foundation, you essentially only have to spend from that foundation in a charitable way, $5,000 of those dollars. That's, that's the limitation. And what many individuals will do is they will hire individuals in their family to run certain aspects of the foundation, like to do certain things on behalf, and those individual family members can draw then a salary from there.
- [34:17]
B
Got it.
- [34:18]
A
And that is a form of income shifting. Right. So if you are a very successful entrepreneur, you're generating significant financial resources on an annual basis, your effective tax rate may be at X percent, whereas maybe your children or your brother or your nephew may be at Y effect. So if you were to donate money into your foundation, create a pool of resources, whereas other family members could work for your private foundation and draw a salary from it, their effective tax rate would be lower than yours. And that is a way where you can get a deduction for making the charitable contribution and shift that money to their tax bracket, getting a tax deduction by doing it, etc. But I believe that a lot of the ways this is shared on social media is shared only in, in, in like a fraction of exactly how you're supposed to do it.
- [35:13]
B
Right.
- [35:13]
A
So it sounds extremely enticing, right? Like it's. It sounds really good to look at like a picture of a chocolate cake on social media. Right. On. On Instagram or in Snapchat or wherever it is. Right. Looks really enticing. But when you start to really read into like all the ramifications of what that chocolate cake are, like how unhealthy it potentially is for you, like these are the same things with regard to tax strategies. You only see a snapshot of it.
- [35:38]
B
Yeah.
- [35:38]
A
Understanding how you actually approach, apply it could ne, could be good, could be challenging. Right. And a lot of people just don't know how to apply it correctly because again, the, the 60 to 90 seconds of information you get on an Instagram post or on a TikTok or whatever it may be, that's nowhere near the amount of actual information you need to apply that strategy the correct way within your life.
- [36:01]
B
Yeah.
- [36:02]
A
And even figure out whether or not it's a legitimate strategy in the first place. Because there's a lot of stuff that's going on social media that is complete junk. Like it's not, it's not even close to true.
- [36:11]
B
Have you seen the Dubai strategy?
- [36:13]
A
Yeah. I mean, so if you're a US Citizen, there are ways to reduce your income taxes by moving abroad. Right. You can do that. Like that would typically involve having, setting up a foreign corporation, getting a compensation from that foreign corporation, because you can exclude a little over a hundred thousand dollars of, of salary paid to you from a foreign corporation. Corporation when you live outside the United States. But as a U. S. Citizen, you are taxed on your global income. Right. But for that particular aspect of reducing your exposure to taxes, you are taxed on your global income. So simply relocating is not necessarily going to eliminate all of your tax burden.
- [36:51]
B
Right.
- [36:51]
A
There are other things that would be required, like giving up your citizenship. And I'm like, like again, I hate the government, but I love America.
- [36:58]
B
I know one guy that did that. I was like, see, that was, I.
- [37:01]
A
Just don't understand it. Like, of all of the countries that exist in the, in the world, America is by far the best. Again, I'm very unhappy about a lot of stuff that happens here, but like, compared to what? Like, like what else, what other country is going to give you the same opportunities that the United States is going to give you? Like in genuinely. What other country is going to give you the same opportunity for getting access to cutting edge technology, cutting edge healthcare, cutting edge opportunities for advancement?
- [37:30]
B
Yeah. Credit cards, loans, you could get all that like that.
- [37:33]
A
The United States is, is by far the leader. That's why everyone wants to come here with obviously some exceptions. But the reality is a lot of people fight to get in here, not a lot of people fight to go other places.
- [37:43]
B
No.
- [37:44]
A
Right. Not a lot of people would go through the effort and energy to get to other countries that people go through to get to here, both legally and illegally. Yeah, but either way, it's a struggle to come in the United States if you were not born here. But people still do it. Right. People still go through that struggle to get here. Why? Because America is the land of opportunity. But again, your. Your ability to accomplish those objectives, those outcomes, those are. Are really a component of a variety of variables. One, you have to have dedication, you have to have commitment, you have to have grit. Right. You have to be resilient in your. Your focus with regard to getting to the outcomes you desire. But it's al. Also important to have the right information.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah.
- [38:25]
A
Right. And that's why mentorship is so important. Finding someone who actually has achieved what you wish to achieve and then simply just reverse engineer the steps to get there.
- [38:35]
B
Yep.
- [38:36]
A
That's the cheat code. And that, like, that should be taught in school. It should be like, you should be able to go to an eighth grader and say, hey, listen, whatever you want to accomplish, if it is possible, then you can accomplish it if it's possible. Because all you need to do is find someone who's done it, because that's, that's the measure of whether or not something is possible.
- [38:55]
B
Yeah.
- [38:55]
A
Someone who has done it. Once you find that person, then all. Then it's just about creativity. Can I reverse engineer the steps that they took to get there and figure out whether or not I could take similar steps right now? It is possible to become an NBA star. It's possible. A lot of people do it, but there's also a lot of things that required for me physically to be able to have that happen. I'm not going to be an NBA star. You could be. You're like 19ft tall. But at the end of the day, it's both aptitude and opportunity. But here's the funny thing about opportunity. It's always around you. It's just most people aren't looking for it. Think about it. I was talking with. I can't remember who this was. I was with another group of people and we were talking about, like, seeing opportunities as they arise.
- [39:42]
B
Yeah.
- [39:43]
A
And we were talking about. The analogy I gave is I asked them, how many people did you see wearing a baseball hat coming into the event today? And like, like, only a couple hands went up. Like, I saw like three people. I saw four people. I said, well, what if I would have called you yesterday and I would have told you for every person you saw wearing a hat, I would give you $100. How many people's hands would go up if I say, did you see someone with a hat?
- [40:09]
B
Everyone.
- [40:09]
A
Everyone would. Right. Because they would be looking for it. Opportunities. The same way opportunities are always around you. It's just very rarely are we actually looking for them actively. But if you look for opportunities actively, you can then take advantage of those opportunities when they come your way. Absolutely. And we're not taught that in school. We're not taught to actively seek out opportunity.
- [40:29]
B
Nope.
- [40:29]
A
Right. But that is a component of success. Right. Getting to those outcomes are, first and foremost, you seeing the opportunity, then you have to actually seize upon it. You have to take action. And that's where most people won't. Most people will complain about not getting something or not achieving something or not having something, but very few are willing to actually do the work to get it.
- [40:51]
B
No, I see that all the time, especially on social media. But, yeah, I love what you said about mentorship. When I started the podcast, I studied the top five shows and reverse engineered what they did.
- [40:59]
A
Right.
- [40:59]
B
That's what you got to do.
- [41:00]
A
Look what you're doing. Like, you're doing phenomenal.
- [41:02]
B
Yeah. But whatever industry you're in, that's possible. And I was a huge introvert when I started. Like, there's no reason I should have been good at podcasting. But, you know, through repetitions and the right people, you got to put yourself out there and seek those opportunities.
- [41:14]
A
Yeah.
- [41:15]
B
You know, that was my issue growing up. I. I didn't seek opportunities. I thought it would just come to me.
- [41:20]
A
I'd be curious to, like, have you ever polled your audience to ask them, like, what are the things that they think, from a perception standpoint, are holding the back versus the things that are actually holding them back? No.
- [41:31]
B
I should do that. That'd be interesting.
- [41:32]
A
Because I think a lot of people will push on to external forces. Things that are holding them back.
- [41:38]
B
Yeah.
- [41:38]
A
Like the reality of themselves.
- [41:40]
B
Yeah. It's easy to blame others.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. All limitations are self imposed.
- [41:43]
B
You think so?
- [41:44]
A
Like, all of them. Every limitation you have is self imposed.
- [41:47]
B
Wow.
- [41:47]
A
Because think about it, like, even someone with debilitating physical ailments. Right. There are examples of those individuals excelling.
- [41:55]
B
Stephen Hawking.
- [41:56]
A
Think about it. Like, every single thing that you perceive as a limitation is a perception. Right. And if you just choose to operate in a different discourse with yourself, you can get different outcomes.
- [42:11]
B
Mind is powerful. Yeah. People underestimate the power of the mind. There is this growing movement. Forgot to ask this earlier about a flat tax. Have you seen this?
- [42:20]
A
Yeah. I mean, so again, what I look at is what is probabilistic. I don't think there's enough momentum in the legislative body to make that an outcome. There's a lot of reasons for that. I think a lot of them are not necessarily good reasons because when there is this ecosystem, the way the tax code is now, the government has a pretty interesting way that it can inspire certain outcomes. Right. On a flat tax environment, it's hard to motivate people to do X, Y or Z. But if I say, okay, as a government, we're not good at creating housing for people, so let's create a system where we'll reward real estate investors. Right. How do we do that? Well, we create this system of depreciation, and not just that, accelerated depreciation so that a real estate investor can get a significant tax benefit by essentially creating housing opportunities for others. And that's the way the government incentivizes real estate investment. It's very hard to do that on a flat tax environment because you get rid of all of those opportunities for benefits in the form of incentives through deductions, credits and exclusions. So I just don't think that there's enough momentum legislatively for that outcome to actually come to fruition. I love the concept because that, that, that brings a sense of, I hesitate to say the word, but fairness within the tax code. Right. Because again, fair is such a subjective word, so I don't like using it. But it's probably the most accurate way to depict what a flat tax would look like because everyone is treated essentially the same relatively from a percentage standpoint. Now you can have some nuance, right? You could say at a certain income threshold, maybe it's a little bit higher of an uptick and a certain income threshold below that there's zero taxation. Right. You could create a parameter that's like that. But again, that doesn't necessarily go as far as what I think the government wants to go with regard to creating opportunities for them to craft within the code incentivization systems to get you to do certain things or not do certain things.
- [44:29]
B
Do you think, do you believe the code should be simplified? Shortened?
- [44:32]
A
I definitely think it should be. I just don't think it will so long.
- [44:35]
B
I know.
- [44:36]
A
I mean, you have, you have thousands and thousands of pages that go into the tax code, not to mention like all of the other ancillary things. Right. So this is another area where people just don't understand it. There's the Law, Right. So this, that's what the, the Congress actually creates, which is the law around taxation. Then an agency in the form of the Internal Revenue Service, right. Codifies that law into regulation. That's the tax code. That's not law. That's the code. Then on top of that are things like court cases, private letter rulings, notices, all of those sorts of things. That collective body of information is what we colloquially reference as tax law. But it's all of that stuff, and you're talking about tens of thousands of pages of information that someone would have to sift through in order to understand it. Now, the majority of that, what I, what I just talked about, the majority of that is oriented towards business ownership. Why? Because the government understands that the real driver of everything that happens is business. Right? So if you look at the majority of the tax code, it's oriented towards business ownership. Real estate, when done correctly, is business. That's a component of it. So if you learn to read the tax code through that lens, then you could start to reorient. Reorient your thinking in your mindset around how can I leverage this to get positive outcomes for me? Now, a lot of people have problems with that. I'm an unapologetic capitalist. I'm going to do what's best for me first. Because it's just like when you're on a plane, you put your own oxygen mask on before helping another. Why? Because if you are not financially free, it's hard for you to help the others around you. But when you are financially free, everyone around you benefits. Your family benefits, your employees benefit, your customers benefit, your community benefits. Right. Entrepreneurism is the best way to change society for the better. So that's why I focus so much of my effort and energy trying to teach entrepreneurs how to be amazing stewards of their wealth. Because again, I don't trust the government. I just don't think they're coming to save us. I don't care who's in office. Doesn't matter.
- [46:43]
B
They're not used to working it.
- [46:44]
A
I used to work in it. I saw behind the scenes, I saw the corruption that exists there. So if you really want to change society for the better, like entrepreneurism is the way, if you can learn how to be an amazing steward of your wealth, the outcomes that you get are amazing.
- [46:59]
B
Absolutely. Edward, it's been a pleasure, man. Where could people potentially become a client of yours?
- [47:03]
A
Well, we actually have an opportunity for people to jump in. I would say just go into our Instagram, first and foremost. DM me the word apply, my team would send you information on whether or not we would be a fit. Because I'm. I'm not a fit for. I have very strong opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not ashamed to. To share them. But, yeah, just jump into our Instagram Edward Collins underscore upleveled DM me the word apply. My team will send me an application to see whether or not we'd be a fit.
- [47:29]
B
Perfect. We'll link below. Thanks for coming on, man.
- [47:30]
A
100%.
- [47:31]
B
Yeah. Good luck, FHL. See you guys next time.