Radical Honesty: The Key to Scaling Your Company | Sam Taggart DSH #1264

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Radical Honesty—The Key to Scaling Your Company

Episode: Radical Honesty: The Key to Scaling Your Company | Sam Taggart DSH #1264
Release Date: March 24, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Sam Taggart

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In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly sits down with renowned entrepreneur and sales strategist Sam Taggart to delve into the transformative power of radical honesty in both personal life and business scaling. Throughout their unfiltered conversation, Sam shares invaluable insights drawn from his extensive experience in coaching, business acquisitions, and personal growth journeys.

Scaling a Business Through Strategic Acquisitions

Sam opens the discussion by outlining his latest venture: a private equity roll-up involving roofing companies. He highlights the rarity of businesses achieving significant scaling milestones, noting, “Out of like 10,000 companies that actually go public, rack have an acquisition” ([01:05] Sam). This stark statistic underscores the immense challenge entrepreneurs face in scaling their companies effectively.

Sam explains that many business owners start without a clear end goal, leading to stagnation after several years. By leveraging his expertise in coaching door-to-door sales teams across various industries—such as roofing, solar, and pest control—Sam aims to provide direction and facilitate acquisitions. He remarks, “People don’t start a business with the end in mind” ([01:05] Sam), emphasizing the importance of strategic planning for long-term success.

The Role of Ego in Sales and Leadership

A central theme of the conversation is the detrimental impact of ego on sales performance and leadership. Sam shares a poignant anecdote about having to terminate a high-paying client due to their uncoachable nature: “Good leaders are coachable. Good leaders know how to take feedback” ([04:45] Sam). This decision, though challenging, was necessary to maintain the integrity and growth trajectory of his consulting practice.

Sean probes further, asking, “Do you see a lot of salespeople struggle with ego?” ([03:44] Sean). Sam concurs, emphasizing that ego often limits progression, as it prevents individuals from being open to coaching and constructive criticism. He advocates for the Platinum Rule—treat others as they would like to be treated—over the traditional Golden Rule to foster better relationships and business outcomes.

Radical Honesty and Vulnerability in Personal Life

Transitioning to personal experiences, Sam candidly discusses his tumultuous journey through marriage and divorce. He reflects on his past behavior, admitting, “I was lying to myself. Like, I was lying to her. I was lying to the counselor” ([09:16] Sam), highlighting the necessity of self-honesty for genuine growth.

Sam recounts his experience with psychotherapy, where a counselor’s blunt approach forced him to confront his own deceptions. This breakthrough moment led to his eventual divorce, liberating him from a relationship lacking true alignment. “It cost me my peace trying to get you on the phone and talk to you and coach you” ([04:45] Sam), he explains, illustrating the importance of mutual coachability in both personal and professional relationships.

Overcoming Insecurities and Embracing Authenticity

A significant portion of the episode focuses on overcoming personal insecurities and embracing authenticity. Sam shares how stepping away from societal and familial expectations allowed him to rebuild stronger, more honest relationships. He emphasizes, “Practice vulnerability” ([24:53] Sam), advocating for a culture of openness and honesty as foundational to both personal fulfillment and business success.

Sam also touches on the concept of radical honesty in relationships, underscoring how transparent communication can lead to deeper connections and more resilient partnerships. “I'm going to watch this house of cards come down” ([04:46] Sam), he states, reflecting on the long-term benefits of honesty over short-term satisfaction.

Cold Outreach Strategies: Embracing the Carnivore Mentality

Back in the business realm, Sam passionately discusses the efficacy of cold DMing and cold emailing as essential strategies for business growth. He champions a carnivore mindset—actively hunting for leads rather than passively waiting for them. “Stop being such a herbivore, bro. There are millions out there to cold DM” ([38:27] Sam), he asserts, encouraging entrepreneurs to embrace proactive outreach methods.

Sam correlates these strategies with his bestselling books, "Eat What You Kill" and "Becoming a Sales Carnivore", which delve into cultivating a hunter mentality in sales. He highlights their impact, noting, “As long as a lead comes in, it’ll make revenue…but how do you teach a culture of leader, no lead” ([37:24] Sam). These resources provide actionable insights for building resilient and independent sales organizations less reliant on fluctuating algorithms or ad spends.

The Intersection of Relationships and Business Success

Sam eloquently ties the importance of personal relationships to business success. He narrates how transparent and honest relationships with his parents and siblings deepened post-divorce, fostering stronger personal support networks. “If you're listening, I think there's this element of honesty on the other side. People are asking for that vulnerability” ([24:07] Sam), he shares, emphasizing that authentic connections are vital for sustainable success.

Personal Growth Through Extreme Challenges

Towards the end of the episode, Sam discusses his commitment to personal growth through extreme physical challenges, such as trail marathons and intense training programs. These endeavors symbolize his dedication to pushing boundaries and maintaining resilience, both essential traits for successful entrepreneurship. “Can you get much more resilient than that?” ([35:02] Sam), he muses, linking physical endurance to business tenacity.

Resources and Further Learning

For listeners inspired by Sam’s insights, he recommends his books available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble:

• "Eat What You Kill"
• "Becoming a Sales Carnivore"

These books offer comprehensive strategies for adopting a proactive sales approach and fostering a culture of resilience and independence within organizations.

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Sam Taggart elucidates how radical honesty and vulnerability are not just personal virtues but essential tools for scaling a business. By confronting ego, embracing authentic relationships, and adopting a carnivore mentality in sales, entrepreneurs can navigate the complexities of business growth with integrity and resilience. Sean Kelly and Sam Taggart’s conversation serves as a powerful reminder that true success stems from honest self-assessment and genuine connections, both in personal life and the business arena.

Notable Quotes:

• “Good leaders are coachable. Good leaders know how to take feedback.” – Sam Taggart ([04:45])
• “Practice vulnerability.” – Sam Taggart ([24:53])
• “Stop being such a herbivore, bro. There are millions out there to cold DM.” – Sam Taggart ([38:27])
• “If you're listening, I think there's this element of honesty on the other side. People are asking for that vulnerability.” – Sam Taggart ([24:07])

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For more insights and conversations like this, subscribe to Digital Social Hour and join Sean Kelly as he uncovers the stories and strategies of today’s most thought-provoking figures.

Transcript

[A]

And what your actions you don't sometimes realize having a consequence. I think a lot of people in a relationship don't understand how this union of a relationship that you make an agreement in, it's self serving sometimes, but then you don't realize the residue it impacts energetically, you know, traumatically to your partner.

[B]

All right, guys, you got Sam here today. We're going to talk sales and talk life. Thanks for coming in today, man.

[A]

No, thanks for having me.

[B]

Yeah. What's the latest thing you're selling these days?

[A]

Coaching. I mean, a lot of, I guess the future version of people. And I'm actually selling companies. I guess the latest is I'm working on a private equity roll up with these roofing companies. So it's selling business owners on giving me their business so that I can help them scale and have an acquisition. And it's kind of a fun project.

[B]

That I've been working on that's needed. Right. Because a lot of people struggle to sell their business. Yeah.

[A]

It's like do the statistics. It's like out of one out of like 10,000 companies that were actually go public rack have an acquisition and it's.

[B]

Like that's like 0.01%.

[A]

Yeah. It's probably even less than that. Like, but it's, you know, people don't start a business with the end in mind. Right, right. They. They start these businesses and then they're like five, ten years in and they're like, I'm bored or I don't know what to do and where am I going with this? And now the hamster will up and down on the entrepreneur roller coaster. So I was like, what if I can help? You know, obviously our forte is more home services and direct sales. And so it's like giving that direction has been kind of an obvious next step for our consulting companies.

[B]

Yeah. There's also a lot of boomers aging out too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. Cody Sanchez talking about this. There's a lot of businesses doing solid revenues, but they don't know what to do.

[A]

Yeah. What am I doing?

[B]

Because their kids don't want to take part in it and they got an asset, but they don't know how to sell it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So that's what you're doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's cool, man. How are you finding the businesses to roll up?

[A]

Well, natural progression. So for eight years we've coached, you know, door to door sales and mainly the roofing, solar, pest alarm, satellite, you know, fiber, whatever. And so what's funny is the private equity money. So for eight Years we've had thousands of companies, we've helped tens of thousands of salespeople and our track record is just like, dude, well, 10x companies really quick. Because we hire a bunch of ninjas, they go out in the field and they door knock and they self generate. They're carnivores, hence the new book I came out with, eat what you kill. And so we teach these kind of like yesterday I spoke in Orlando to a bunch of pressure washing, window washing companies and they're just like, dude, we need this. You know, they spend all this money on SEO and all these things. I'm like, what if you just got like five sales guys to go? Actually, you what? They kill. Oh yeah, why don't we do that? So teach us how to do that. So for eight years we've been coaching companies how to do that. And a lot of our clients, we have 100 business owners in our mastermind. You know, we take them from 4 to 40 million and they're like, bro, like we're drinking your Kool aid, tell us what to do next. And I'm like, private equity sector is leaving tech quite a bit because of AI and they're afraid of like all the innovation and they're like, how do we move into more essential services? It can't really get disruptive. And you take like pest control or you know, roof. It's not like AI could do anything to that. Right. And so they're needing a place to park their money. And so it's just getting really, really sexy for these financial groups. And so I'm like, guys, do you want to go make a quick 40 million? And they're like, yeah, what do we need to do, Sam? Like, we trust you. So yeah, it's kind of fun.

[B]

That's impressive. Well, you got the track record, so it's not as a difficult sell as for other people.

[A]

Yeah, it's not like I'm cold outreaching on LinkedIn. It's like, hey, I've coached you for three years. Do you trust me? And they're like, sure. But then you still gotta be like, bro, drop the ego. Like, let's go build something like a billion dollar thing, right? And help them.

[B]

Do you see a lot of salespeople struggle with ego?

[A]

Oh, I do. I mean, we all do. Like, I think that's the. You know, one of my favorite books is Ego is the enemy by Ryan Holiday. And you know, you think of like how often we think we know everything, but I think that's the demise of any sales rep Any business owner is. It's like, you're limiting your progression because you're not willing to be coachable. You're not willing to be. You know, I actually fired a guy. I fired a. I fired my biggest client literally two weeks ago. He's paying me, you know, several hundred thousand dollars a year. And I was like, bro, you're not coachable. Like, as much as you want to grow, you know, I was. I was tasked to take him from 100 reps to 600 sales reps in six months. And I'm like, cool, let's do it. We got to, like, 350 in four and a half months. And, like, we're on track. But I'm like, bro, me having to pick up the phone and talk to you is, like, killing me. I don't need your money. And I was just like, I have a. Like, I only take on two or three clients personally. And I was just like, you're fired, bro.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And. And they were like, wait, but do you still like us? Right? Because they didn't want me to, like, tarnish their name or anything like that. And I was like, yeah, like, you're cool. I just. It's. It cost me my piece trying to get you on the phone and talk to you and coach you. And I'm like, I'm gonna watch this house of cars come, and there's not. Not, like, I hope that on them. It's just. I'm like, you're not a good leader because you're not coachable. And I was like, good leaders are coachable. Good leaders know how to take feedback. They know how to. They know how to win, to balance the game of confidence and humility. And that. That duality is. Is very important as a sales rep, as a business owner, even, like, from a sales rep standpoint, a customer sitting there trying to tell you something. But if you're so fixated on the way that you need to sell them, you're talking about the golden rule, which is treat others as you would like to be treated. And so you're projecting your ego in the way that you would buy and the way that you're thinking and the presentation that you have planned, instead of being flexible, like the platinum rule, which is to treat others as they would like to be treated. So it's like this concept of, like, drop your ego and be flexible, like a chameleon and say, hey, help. Like, help me understand what you're needing, not what I'm needing. And that is how you really create progression.

[B]

I Agree. I think a lot of people get stuck cuz they're not coachable.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you see it at all levels. Even millionaires.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like they get stuck at like seven figures a year.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I think it's cuz they, they found what works, but they're not willing to do something new to get to that next level. Yeah, yeah, that happened with me too.

[A]

I'm, I, I'm still in it. My wife, she's over here. Like, who's coaching you? I'm like, yeah. So like, anyway, I fly out to go hang out with the Dan Martell and this guy Chris Smith in like two weeks in Hawaii.

[B]

Dan's been crushing it. Oh, Chris Lee's mastermind.

[A]

No, Chris Smith.

[B]

Smith. Okay.

[A]

He does campfire. He's in Hawaii. But Denmark, it's like a little couple saying. And then so I have this year, I was like, all right, I'm going to spend 100 grand on epic coaches because it's been like a year and a half since I had like really invested money. And I was like, you're right. Like I did have a stagnant year last year. And I, I was like, what? What was the difference? And I was like, nobody's freaking kicking me in the nuts. And I actually think like the best CEOs and the best top performers in sales, like, they actually like having somebody kick them in the nuts. You know what I mean? Like, real good performers are like, give it to me. It's the ones that take the emotional sensitivity and they're like, ah, da da da. And they're always coming with excuses. It's like if you had somebody in your life that was just like, like, I remember I went through seven marriage counselors.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And nine years of marriage. And it wasn't until my seventh marriage counselor that that was like calling me out. You know what I mean? Like, think about that. Like, he was just like, no one is the balls because I'm such a sales guy. I sell all the other sales. I, I sold all the other marriage counselors on like I'm the. Yeah, she's the issue. And you know, like I'd manipulate my counseling sessions because I'm really good with language. And he was just like, I'm not going to buy into your dude. Like, own your truth. And like he just freaking hit me between the eyes and I was like, ah, thank you. And what came of it is I never wanted that relationship. And I called the marriage and I got divorced and. But it was like he freed me from my, I guess like what's the word? Like, I was almost like, manipulating my. My happiness. I was almost like living out of real alignment.

[B]

Were you lying yourself?

[A]

I was lying to myself. Like, I was lying to her. I was lying to the counselor. I was lying to myself. I was lying to. You know what I mean? And he's just like, stop lying. Mm. And I'm like, you think of fat people do that. You think broke people do that. You think. You know what I mean? I watch people like that have no money and then they lie through. I gotta look good. I don't want anybody to know. And I'm like, how about you just, like, tell the truth? You're broke, bro. Let's fix that. Let's start there. And nobody, like, wants to just say what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, hard to get.

[B]

To that level, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mindset where you can just accept everything.

[A]

True acceptance. Let's find radical honesty and let's, like, own where we're at.

[B]

Yeah. Everyone's got insecurities, whether it's their weight, their height, their money, all of it. Yeah.

[A]

And that's where the coaching side. And I'm working on it as a business owner even. I mean, I got 50 employees and I like to be liked.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The insecurity of, like, what if I say you're sucking at your job and then they don't like me and then I gotta show up to the office tomorrow. But I'm like, that's not serving anyone. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

No. I used to be a people pleaser and I even tried to please bullies that were bullying me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How much I wanted to be accepted.

[A]

And it's like, why do we do that? Yeah.

[B]

This is like, so Dusto Dom, dude. It's like I'm sacrificing free candy bars just so they would, like, maybe he'll like me. Yeah.

[A]

It's like, you're an idiot. You're running this company and you're waiting for the approval of your freaking sixty thousand dollar employee.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'd over here like, I'm backwards.

[B]

I had to change that mindset when I started the podcast and started seeing comments because I'm like, all right, we're getting thousands of comments now. I can't please every single person. I just gotta accept that half the comments are going to be negative sometimes.

[A]

Yeah. I had a guy yesterday comment on one of the posts, Sam, you should cut your hair. I was like, my wife's super hot. She loves it like, like, in my head, I like, kind of took it. I was like, yeah, you're right. It is kind of getting like people's perception, their judgment. Then I was like, no, it's good looking and I like it. Yeah, suck it. It's like, you know what I mean? But like, it was hard. I was like, ah, yeah.

[B]

You seek out that one native comment in the sea of hunter. Positive ones.

[A]

Yeah. Stupid. Because we live off feedback.

[B]

Yeah. You got remarried though?

[A]

Yeah, I got remarried.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Had a good three year. Just like I had to live out my single phase for a minute. I got married when I was, you know, I went on a two year service mission in Argentina and the day basically week I got home, met my first wife.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And you know, I was. They call it missionary goggles, where it's like, you living in a foreign country for two years, can't touch a girl, Live with a dude, always with somebody. You know what I mean? You're just like, woman. You're like, finally, I'm free. You know what I mean? And got married within nine months of being home.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah, that's quick. Met, married and get engaged or you.

[B]

Just went straight to marriage?

[A]

No, we got engaged for four months. Like a four month engagement. I had never had sex with anybody. I had never. Damn. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, first girl I kissed for girl home. And. And it's just a cultural thing. And it's like where we come from. I'm from Utah. I grew up Mormon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was like this again. I wrote a book called the Self Experience. That was my second book. And I, I talk about this, but I just was kind of living like almost an imposter's experience again. Lying to myself. It's like, what does the world, my culture, my family, everybody want me to be? That fear of being liked. Like, think about that. Like, it's this concept of like, I need to look good and if I told her, no, I don't want to get married, then her family, the investment. Like, I almost called off our engagement, but I was like, oh, her dad's already spent 25 grand on this wedding. Damn. See what I'm getting at? Like, and I'm like, I don't want to make him feel bad. And then I don't want to like, break her heart. Yeah, let's just get married.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Nine years later, three kids. That's in the back of your mind. And it's like, that was just dumb. I couldn't own my truth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Oh, that's crazy. You were thinking about the dad's money when it comes to marriage.

[A]

Yeah. And it was cool and it was fun, but it wasn't like there was real alignment there. Like, there were so many red flags that I just was like, blinded by. And so I was able to kind of like when I got divorced, kind of blank canvas my life a little bit and. And just say, hey, can I take a step back and like, really assess values, beliefs, the what is it that I want instead of what my parents want or what this wants or whatever. And I'm sure in your culture, like parents have a very high level of.

[B]

Respect that you like Asian culture. For sure.

[A]

Exactly. Like, it's just so I'm like, well. And so I just went on my own, like, little journey and then I got to a point where I was like, I need to drop my one. I need, like, I'm ready to like, single life is not for me. It's kind of a fleety, non progressive direction. And I was like, you know, I need my queen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I drew up, which is absolutely amazing.

[B]

Beautiful, man. Yeah, I was. I spent a lot of time in isolation. It's a tough lifestyle. I was very lonely. And I think they're doing studies now on just lifespan. And people that are single live less on average.

[A]

Well, it's just. You need an accountability. My wife is my greatest accountability person. Like last night, you know, the hotel, she's like, don't get bit. You know, I mean, you're in Vegas.

[B]

Scorpion.

[A]

You see what I mean? Like, but not like a scorpion in the sense of the desert. She's like, don't get bit by the world. You're in the freaking dopamine village of Vegas and there's chicks and there's alcohol and there's slot machines and there's. You know what I mean? They think about all the things in Vegas that could buy you. And you know, she's over here, like, staying alignment. You know what I mean? Like, it's powerful to have a partner as hard as that is sometimes because it's so close to home. It's emotional. But the humility to be like, touche. Like, thank you. Instead of like, why are you being so, like, in my business? You know what I mean? Like, that's how most people in our relationship act and.

[B]

True.

[A]

Thank you for caring enough to want to hold me accountable.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of people would be like, why are you telling me that?

[A]

Yeah, why do you tell me how to wear this? Yeah, I'm gonna do what I want.

[B]

Yeah. Because they, some people see that as controlling.

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

But there's difference, I think how you interpret it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's looking out for you.

[A]

She's just saying, I want the best for you and me because anything you do affects me. Because we're in oneness, married. And what your actions, you don't sometimes realize having a consequence. And I think a lot of people in a relationship don't understand how this union of a relationship that you make an agreement in, it's self serving sometimes. But then you don't realize the residue it impacts energetically, you know, traumatically to your partner. And the power of that, you know, that triad between you, God and partner is powerful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like you have, you break this relationship with God through doing something stupid. You break it with yourself, you break it with your partner. Because we get self serving, selfish, you know, short lived satisfaction versus long term fulfillment.

[B]

Yeah. That was a big lesson for me in my relationship. When I lost everything, I was like, wow, this isn't just impacting me anymore. You know, I got a girl at home, got pets, got a house to take care of. This is impacting a lot more people, her family too.

[A]

But everybody's got to go through that journey.

[B]

Yeah. Has that happened to you when you missed it all?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was it during the divorce?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Like, and I had to take responsibility for that. I did. You know what I mean? I can't blame her and be like, I don't want this. I'm like, I think two great people can always make it work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Despite you're going to go through hard hardship, you're gonna go through, I don't like you for this next six months. It's like, but you're committed. And it's like, that's the power of having a marriage. That's the power power of having commitment. And it's like, I think too many people are afraid to commit. They're afraid to like, you know, when this going gets tough, they're just like, f this, I'm out. They walk out too easy. It's like I'm resilient, come from door to door. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, I catch more.

[A]

Can't get much more resilient than that. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just like. And I think that was the hardest part about walking out of that marriage is I was like, I gave it seven years of seven counselors and really tried at it. And it was freeing to kind of be like, look, I. It's okay to fail. Sometimes. But I. What. What lesson? But I was resilient, trying to freaking make it work.

[B]

So those counselors ended up helping in the long run then.

[A]

Yeah, like, and I, heck, I run a mastermind with a bunch of business owners now, right? And I'm like, well, I've studied a million freaking marriage books trying to fix my shit, so at least I can regurgitate. I'm not saying I'm the guru at this shit, but, like, I sure know a lot of good tools. And you know, I'm like, the, the lessons even learned in those counseling sessions, I'm like, this is great.

[B]

Well, a lot of guys in our space, in the, in the coaching space struggle with relationships.

[A]

Dodds.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

Coaching entrepreneurs. Like, I mean, I'm friends with Sean Whelan. I'm like, I watch, you know, separate. Yeah, they like got divorced and they got back together and then they just barely got divorced again. You know what I mean? I was like. And then he had a relationship podcast and I'm like, that's tough. He's in a limelight. You know what I mean? Like, it's like they had a great thing going, but I don't know, his demons and her demons, and it's her third marriage and is it her fault? Is it his fault? Was he doing something stupid? Was she doing something like. I don't. Yeah, it's not in my business, but like, entrepreneurship's tough. I've been through a hard effing year and, you know, financially, I made 1/100th of the amount of money last year than I did on a normal year.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And I'm like, is that cuz solar crash? Yeah. Solar was 60% of our business of like coaching. And solar had a huge, huge decline. So we're losing most clients there. Luckily we had other industries. But I'm like, man, this is tough. And you know, you look at the macroeconomic of that and it's like, that's not in my control as much, but it hurts. So I'm scrambling with overhead and I don't want to fire everybody. And I, I don't want to like, you know, and I'm over here like. But like, how do I double down? I'm a door to door guy. Like, I'm like, I'll put on my bag and sell more. Like, I'll knock more doors. I'll have to work my ass out of this. You know what I'm saying? But that hurts. Where else? Your relationship, that hurts. Your physical, that hurts. And that's why I woke up this year and I was just like, money's not everything. I can't let like some of these key things. And so I'm kind of on that out of this. And I'm just like, dude, I have to figure this shit out.

[B]

I'm still figuring it out too, man. That balance is tough. Some people don't believe in balance at all.

[A]

No, it's, it's, it, it's having clear expectations and, and awareness of where you are in the balance. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and I told her this morning, I said, d, like, because I've been in Orlando the last three days here, you know, and she's just like, I don't feel taken care of her. Blah, blah. Right. And I'm just like, I didn't call you as much as I could because I was like, conversation after conversation. I keynoted yesterday and I had like a line of people for like five hours after jamming with me. And I was like, I couldn't answer your text. I couldn't. Like, I was just where my feet were. And when I get home tonight, my feet are with you. Does that make sense? And I'm like, can I, can I, can I have some grace for that? Because I can't have one foot over there and one foot over there and one foot over there. Like, can I just be where my feet are?

[B]

Yeah, you got to be present, right? Yeah, yeah. No, I have the same battles. And it's tough to explain sometimes.

[A]

Most people can't relate.

[B]

Yeah. Well, our lifestyle isn't, like, predictable.

[A]

No.

[B]

We'll get invited to a last minute dinner or something, an event, and it just happens on the fly.

[A]

And you have to be able to flow and not have this, I don't know, friction of like. Well, you. It's just like, look, I'm gonna, I'm. I'm Hope you trust me as I flow through this entrepreneurial journey. And I want you to know you're my, like, number one, too.

[B]

Yeah. I think just that conversation is important because I used to not open up about that at all. So she didn't know where I was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but now she knows, like, if I'm doing something, it's really important. Yeah. So that's definitely key. But yeah, the first few years were rough. Man. It's tough being an entrepreneur and dating.

[A]

It's so hard.

[B]

So hard. A lot of my.

[A]

You almost are like, effort. Like, it's easier to be single.

[B]

Yeah. But then being single is like, mentally kind enough.

[A]

We're not built for that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not built. No, I built this.

[B]

I need her, man. She helps out so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did that divorce impact any family relationships? Because the Mormon culture is really strict on that, Right?

[A]

That was my biggest fear, right? Like, it's like, how do I tell my parents? Like, you know, how do I tell her parents? Right? And I remember it came off this hike one day and I just walked into. I was like, I had to. I had to go to her dad. Like, it was like a two week thing. I on a zoom call with my counselor. I was like, we're going to get divorced. And I didn't say anything for like two weeks to her family. And I was like, I owe it to her dad. Super respect the dude. Still talk to him all the time. I talked to him yesterday.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

So like super well renowned orthopedic surgeon, business owner, like, kills it. And I was just like, I spent nine years in that family. I can't just break that, like, and disgrace that. He's a grandpa to my kids. You know what I mean? And so I went into his office. He was at a. He works in a hospital. And I was like, I need you to see you, like, right now. So, like, run in there, sit down with him. And I said, look. And at the end of that, he's like, I really appreciate this conversation. All the respect. I don't blame you. I get it. And like, it was cool to just see that relationship, like, going to my parents. And I'm like, look, this where I'm at. And I just, like, we thought this happened way sooner. And I was like, geez. I was like, really? You said that? Like, you know what I mean? I was like, I was like, wow, we're surprised you lasted this long. Because I have. Nobody else in my family's divorced. They don't. They've been married for 50 years. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, that's how.

[B]

How it is back then. That's how it was.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, I'm the only one in my family that's been divorced, right? And I'm like, oh, really? Like, yeah, dude. We were shocked. Like, we knew that you guys were never a really good duo. Like, it'd be hard to be married to you too. Let's just be real, Sam. You know what I mean? And they're like, what do we need to support you? And then I went through kind of my own faith journey and that was its own thing. And I'm like, hey, I don't know if I'M like, really believe in the church or this or that. And that was a hard moment. And, you know, and then I, like, go to Peru and do ayahuasca, and I go, you know, on my own little thing. Right. And. And I'm like, how do I tell my parents I'm doing, like, psychedelics or something? You know what I mean? And they're just like, oh, maybe we should try that. I'm like, really? Like, you know, I just, like, opened up. And what I found is, like, my parents have the wherewithal gratefully to be like, we love you no matter what.

[B]

And that's cool, because sometimes religion divides that.

[A]

Yeah. We're disowning you. We're. You know. And I'm like, cool. I can have these conversations. So I call my brother, and he's like, yeah, I've been in that same thing for five years. I'm like, really? Like, I would have never thought. You know what I mean? And then I go. And I'm just like, oh, I can have these more deeper conversations of just raw authenticity. And all of a sudden, my relationships actually got way stronger and deeper with my parents and my siblings than the five years leading up to my divorce.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And I was like, they're like, we got Sam back. And I was like, oh, well, this is the exact opposite effect that I was thinking was going to happen. And so if you're listening, like, I think that there's this element of, like, this honesty that is on the other side. People are asking for that vulnerability. And I think, especially as men or especially as business owners, especially as, you know, influencers or coaches, like, whatever, you have this, like, need to maintain this image, and it's actually holding you back from a deeper connection. And anyway, so then it was like, practice vulnerability. Like, practice vulnerability. And anyway, that's, like, my hardest thing, so.

[B]

That's cool, man. Yeah. I think social media kind of want to make you put on a show. Yeah. So it's like a highlight reel, and it's kind of dangerous sometimes.

[A]

100.

[B]

Yeah. People only post good things happening themselves.

[A]

It's. It's. I think it's deadly in that regard.

[B]

Yeah. But I think with podcast, it's getting more people to open up, which is cool. So you're starting to see more people be vulnerable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. You're starting to see grown men crying on podcasts. Like, that was not a thing 10 years ago.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, I wouldn't want to cry on a podcast 10 years ago.

[A]

No.

[B]

Now it's happened.

[A]

It's crazy thing. It's a thing.

[B]

Yeah, it's a thing, man. I want to hear about this ayahuasca journey.

[A]

Yeah. So I, Yeah, after, I was like, hey, blank slate. And for some reason, you know, when I got divorced, I was like, okay, if I'm gonna go blank slate, I'm blank slating, like anything goes, right? And I was like, well, my cousin had like kind of gone the whole psychedelic route. And I was like, he's like, sam. And I'd been kind of curious. He was like, let's go on a hike. And so he. We do something. And I was like the strongest testimony builder of Jesus Christ for me in my life. And I was like, oh. And I was like, you can't put the genie back in the bottle after you've, like gone there. And so my like, concept of religion and how I've been raised and like, I'm talking in like five hours with just everything flipped on its head.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And I was just like, oh, how do I unsee any of them? You know what I mean? It was just like, huh. It's like, I can't go back. And so then for a while it like, it called. So like, probably a year and a half later, I facilitated. I do these bucket list trips. So if you ever want to come on our next one's in New Zealand on a cruise.

[B]

I love New Zealand, dude.

[A]

We do these like epic trips every year. It's fun, just high vibe. People doing epic.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

And I was like, maybe I'll do one of my bucket list trips. Because I was like feeling this calling to do Peru and ayahuasca and. And so I facilitate like 20 people. We walk down to like where the Shipibo tribe is in the Amazon, you know, like two hour boat ride up the Amazon after you get into the deep jungle, right?

[B]

You did the real deal.

[A]

The real deal.

[B]

We'll get shamans in the, bro. Not the same.

[A]

Never. Please do not do that. Like, I'm telling you, after doing the real deal and watching how many effing people do it in a basement with like some quasi. Like, I. Yeah, yeah. I had a buddy do it and I'm like, he's like, yeah, I just did that. And I was like, you didn't. You didn't do it? Like, you, like, even in the first doesn't count. I was like, the first two days, it didn't even like hit like. I was like, what the heck is this? I'm like, this is nothing. Like, it wasn't until Day three, that it learns you and it like, you start to come to this medicine. And then at day four, I was like, oh, I can control the medicine. Like, it, like, it was like a whole thing.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'm like, somebody goes and sits in the basement. It doesn't do the full, like, experience of like, what it's meant to be. Only got a fraction of its, like, sacredness. And I watched today so many people, they become. It's a medicine. So it's like what happens is they mistake medicine, the teacher as food. Does that make sense?

[B]

Medicine as food, meaning they go to.

[A]

It as it's needing their nutrients in their food. It's. No, it's a medicine. You're not drinking cough syrup every day. Does that make sense? And they go to these coaches and gurus and. And psychedelic or whatever thing. And they are dependent, thinking it's. It's food.

[B]

Right. I've seen people do a hundreds of times.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, how many? Like what? Like, no, you should integrate. And this is like a. Might be a one time thing forever.

[B]

That's it for some people. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like. But they kind of go back and back and back. And I'm like, you're missing it. You think there's no free neurological lunch. You think about that. Like, it's. And I watch. And so when I talk about this, it's. It's kind of like, don't throw your pearls amongst the swine. It's really sacred.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think it's lost its sacredness in today's world of like, oh, I heard that this guy on a podcast at Ayahuasca. And I'm like, bro, this isn't like going down to the Kwik E Mart and getting like a snack. This is a sacred mess. Yeah. Like, so it was a beautiful experience.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Life changing.

[B]

So it really shaped up your view on everything. You fought your whole life, though.

[A]

Yeah. So the first time I did was lsd. And then Ayahuasca was like, I went. I took D. We were dating for like four months. And she was supposed to go get a boob job in Miami.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for some reason she had this astrology reading that was like 30 pages. And it was like, on this date, you're going to have a life changing thing that you need to have for this week. And it was the exact week I'm going to Ayahuasca.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And I was like, it literally said like, word for word, like, the dates. There's like, you need it like. And I was like. She's like, I don't know, but God says I need to go. My astrology reading says I need to go. And I'm like, I guess you need to go. And she's like, cancels this and goes.

[B]

And at the time, you didn't believe in astrology, right?

[A]

Yeah, like, it was like, that is so wild. Yeah. And so then she goes, and I have this like, you need to marry D. And I was so anti marriage at that point because I was like, divorced. Yeah. Like, I was like, marriage is such a construct that man made and just a bullshit. And. And God's just like, her mother, ayahuasca. She's like, stop being a bitch. Commit. This is the woman. And I'm over here, like, I can't unsee this shit. So if you look at my wife's wedding ring, it's actually. The band is the ayahuasca vine.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And the diamonds. I customized this, like, sick ring. So it was like, I don't know, probably two months later, I had it engaged. And I was like, I'm sending it.

[B]

Oh, you got engaged in six months?

[A]

No. Yeah, like within six months. Yeah, bro. I did it again, but it was like, I was so anti that, like, I was like, no way. Yeah, like, within six months, I'm like, dana, I'm engaged again. You know what I mean?

[B]

I waited six years.

[A]

It was wild, dude. And I'm like, so anti. And now I was just like, I guess when, you know, you know, when it calls, it calls.

[B]

And I lost his. That powerful.

[A]

Yeah, it was just mind boggling.

[B]

Like, I was like, did you see aliens?

[A]

No, I didn't see aliens.

[B]

Okay. So people do.

[A]

I went. I had an astro. I'm not.

[B]

Astral projection.

[A]

Astral orgasm.

[B]

Whoa. Yeah, bro, I heard that's the best in the world.

[A]

Yeah, dude. It was wild like that. Like, that's a whole nother experience of itself.

[B]

Yeah. I heard that's the best form of orgasm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the universe.

[A]

It was. It was like, you're banging the universe.

[B]

So were you making love with your universe astral form?

[A]

No, with kind of her and universe. Like, imagine like heavenly mother would be the easiest way to explain. Damn.

[B]

That is.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know how to explain.

[B]

Oh, it's full body though, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You're just like, in a whole.

[B]

Another dude. That's on my bucket list, actually.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, I didn't know you could ejaculate that much fluid. Essentially. Like, Like. Anyway, we won't go down that one.

[B]

But, like, I just had Lily Phillips on, so. Yeah, you can't get much credit.

[A]

Okay, well, this took a turn from sales to. Anyway, if you're listening, I love you.

[B]

I love that, man. She got married super quick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's beautiful. And you plan on having kids with her, too?

[A]

No kids. I got snipped. I was like, well, oh, you got sniffed? Yeah, I have three, she has one. So I'm like, we have four.

[B]

Damn. My dad got sniffed. He didn't tell my. My mom.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. Well, he already had two kids before, and then he had me, and he was done after three, I think.

[A]

Yeah, I was just like, look, and what's sad, you know, it's so weird, case. So let's take ayahuasca. So Dee never got a boob job. And probably whenever. Very, like, everything needs to be natural. Everything needs to be sacred. She was like, food. I mean, you take down to the dieta. She's lived this, like, very holistic, like, life since then. And then also, like, even since getting snipped. It was almost like God's like, dude, you're, like, impeding this whole, like, natural element that you might want a kid. You know what I mean? And, like, you're just so sensitive to even little things like that, which is so interesting. Like, wow. So, like, she's been, like, very, like, not that she wants a kid, but she almost feels like we're getting in the way of God's ability if he needed to send us a kid. Like, it's wild.

[B]

Well, I like that. I'm not a fan of most cosmetic surgeries, to be honest. Especially on women who feel pressured to get them.

[A]

Bro, do you have any lip job? It's, like, mind boggling how many people have lip jobs and boob jobs and.

[B]

Face jobs, especially in Miami.

[A]

I'm like, dude, it's insane. I was at the airport in freaking Florida, and I'm over here. Like, that butt is three times too big. It's, like, so foreign. It's like, why are we putting foreign in our bodies? And, like, so my wife's, like, naturally unbelievably beautiful, but it's like, to me, what makes a woman so beautiful is that natural? Like, it's. They have this insecurity. It goes back to men with money and cars and all that other shit going, like lip filler and eye filler and all the other things they do is over their face.

[B]

And, yeah, we mask it through material purchases. I mean, women do the cosmetic purchases.

[A]

Yeah. Vegas here is bad too. You know, you walk around, you're just.

[B]

Like, yeah, I've seen people get eaten up out here, man. They can't control their urges. Whether it's prostitutes, whether it's gambling, whether it's just going out to the clubs. Yeah, Vegas can be dangerous with the wrong mindset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I love it here, personally.

[A]

Yeah, it's a great place. Like, I didn't realize you had, like, hot springs and dope hikes and mountain biking and all.

[B]

Yeah, we got Red Rock.

[A]

Yeah, it's dope.

[B]

We're pretty close to Cali. Pretty close. I just drove to Sedona last week. Beautiful out there.

[A]

No, I just went on a run with my CRO. He lives here.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

And that's where I was just right before this. And he loves it.

[B]

You training for a marathon or something?

[A]

Kind of. I'm doing 75 hard. I'm 49 days in Nice. And then I'm doing trail with Colin O'Brady and Jesse Itzel. The trail. So it's. I did 29029 last year. That's like the. Where you hike. It's Everesting.

[B]

Oh, they go up the mountain, right?

[A]

Yeah, you go up the mountain, like, a bunch of times till you hike 29,000ft, which is actually way harder than you think. That's how high an airplane flies. And just hiking straight to where an airplane flies, that's crazy. But, like, the trail is three marathons in three days with, like, ton of vertical in the mountains. So it's like back to back marathons. And that's.

[B]

Holy crap. And you're running up the whole time?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dude. Is it harder on the way up or the way down?

[A]

For me, up. Like, everybody always complains about the down. And I'm like, you're so much more energy exertion up.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes down is a lot of energy too.

[A]

Yeah, like that. Like, I don't know why. Maybe my brain. Because some people hate the down. But, like, my first marathon is during COVID Yeah. And freaking. They shut it down. And I was like, f that. Like, they canceled my marathon. I've been training for this. And so I was like, I'm gonna go to the top of the mountain and run. It was 11 miles downhill, and then the rest was just flat. So I was like, I'm just gonna run down the canyon. I'm in Utah. Right. So. And I loved the first 11 miles. You know, it's all gravity, you know, and some people, like my buddy, he hurt his knee after, like, a Mile. Like, it was pounding on his knees and he like limped the other freaking 25 miles. And I was like, bro, I don't know why you finished. Cuz he was like one leg limping. Oh my God, dude. And he had like repercussions for five years. And I was like, you. That was probably dumb. You should just like. Well, yeah, but there's like four of us that ran it. It was like, us four. We're going to still f and do it. And so we did. We just made our own course and ran 26 miles.

[B]

Damn, it was fun. That was ego at the beginning right now.

[A]

Ego.

[B]

Yeah. He goes, dangerous, man. Well, dude, it's been awesome. I'm gonna finish your book. I'm about an hour into the audiobook. Where can people find the book and keep up with you?

[A]

Yeah, Amazon. Eat what you kill. Barnes and Noble. Becoming a sales carnivore. So like, obviously the premise of me we didn't talk sales a ton is just for context, is teaching people how to be more hunters and carnivores versus herbivores or lead babies. And in today's younger generation, and just because of social media, you know, they're digital social, it's like they become so dependent on as long as a lead comes in, it'll make, make revenue. But it's like, I'm like, how do you teach a culture of leader, no lead. You got carnivores. You know what I mean? Like, they go hunt, they go dm, they'll go knock. They'll go cold call though. And if, like people can learn that skill and I teach it in the book, their culture of their sales organization, their business, like, is so much less dependent on. As long as algorithm doesn't get changed, I'm good. Or my ad spend or whatever. Right? Like, and I'm like, dude, you'll. You'll thrive in life learning that mindset and skill set of how to cold outreach to customers. And that's what the book talks about. So anybody listening that wants a, you know, a good book for their team or you know, book club if you're in sales. It has been, you know, we hit bestseller, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, New York Times. Like, all these really cool things have been happening since we launched about a month ago.

[B]

I love it. Yeah, I can't wait to finish it. I love cold DMing. So I've cold DM'd every day for 10 years straight.

[A]

It's just such a good practice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like I will outreach and think of what's come from it. From you.

[B]

The compound effect of it over a 10 year period is nuts.

[A]

Nuts.

[B]

And that's why the podcast is where it's at. Honestly. Cold dm, it's.

[A]

I mean, I like exactly what I just said to you even before is like, I look at the people I've spoke Mike Posner to. You know, a lot of these speakers I get at door to Orcon, it's like I just DM them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they responded back 100%.

[B]

That's how I got Mike on the pod.

[A]

Yeah. Like they just become. And then they become a friend. And then I was like, mike, do you know John Billion? Cuz he's on my hit list of like people I want to meet. Yeah. Let me put you on a group text. Just how you're going to put me on group text with Charlie Kirk's team.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know what I mean? So it's just like, what you don't realize is that outreach and that it creates more business as much as you're inbound. But now you're inbound. You got the lead. But are you maximizing referrals off that? You maximizing their proximity? Like, you know what I mean? But everybody's complaining about, oh, I don't have enough leads. And I'm like, stop being such a herbivore, bro. There's millions out there cold DM them.

[B]

I used to cold DM a hundred a day. Day. Now I'm probably doing like 10 to 25 because it's just podcast guests now. But yeah, cold DM, cold email is good too.

[A]

Yeah. It's just like. But we're afraid to knock. It's like, duh.

[B]

No, you shouldn't be scared of rejection. Especially cold dm. It's all a numbers game.

[A]

Yeah. And then they're not. They don't. They don't message you back or they message you back f you. Okay.

[B]

That's the worst thing that can happen. Which is rare, by the way. It's like one out of a thousand.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah. So cold bm, guys.

[A]

That's huge. Powerful.

[B]

Thanks for coming on, Sam. That was. Check them out, guys. See you next.

[A]

See you guys.