Raw Milk & Grass-Fed Meat: A Health Game-Changer | Kevin Muno DSH#1315

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour—Raw Milk & Grass-Fed Meat: A Health Game-Changer | Kevin Muno (DSH #1315)

Episode Theme & Purpose
Host Sean Kelly sits down with Kevin Muno, founder of Perennial Pastures, to explore how regenerative agriculture, grass-fed meat, and raw milk can revolutionize health, environment, and food culture. The conversation covers beef sourcing, regulations and profitability of regenerative farming, the importance of nutrient density, soil health, animal welfare, and spiritual/mental health connections to food. Kevin brings insider perspective from his work at the forefront of regenerative ranching in California.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Grass-Fed Meat Movement & Bulk Buying (01:06–02:37)

• Bulk Beef Trends: Sean notes the cost and convenience of ordering a quarter cow; Kevin attributes the surge in demand to people seeking food sovereignty, savings, and family health.
• Direct Quote: “Bulk beef’s really blowing up these days…huge trend right now.” – Kevin (01:24)
• Regenerative Certification: Kevin details his ranch’s “Regenerat” status, emphasizing minimal input, maximal output, and nutrient density.

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2. Understanding Regenerative Agriculture (02:38–05:04)

• Mimicking Nature: Kevin explains practices modeled after the migratory bison that built deep, rich American soils.
• Soil Cores Example: “I had the privilege to go to Gabe Brown’s ranch, take four foot deep soil cores … We weren’t even going deep enough to see the soil A horizon.” – Kevin (03:40)
• Complex Definitions: Regenerative ag blends permaculture, organics, and more. Essence: food grown to emulate natural cycles with fewer synthetic inputs.

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3. Soil Health & Food Nutrient Density (05:39–11:05)

• Feedlot Effect: Most US beef is finished in feedlots (CAFOs), greatly reducing nutrient density. Cows thrive foraging, suffer on grain.
• Environmental Impact: Regenerative grazing builds healthy, water-retentive soil, supporting both food quality and ecological resilience.
• Quote: “If nutrient density is not at the foundation of [your diet], you’re really not optimizing whatever diet you’re on.” – Kevin (10:06)
• Vegetable Sourcing: Whole Foods/Sprouts are starting to offer regenerative, but most supply chains are too small-scale for mass retail yet.

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4. Economics & Supply Challenges of Regenerative Ranching (11:36–13:04)

• Profitability: Contrary to expectations, regenerative models are often more profitable due to lower input costs once soil health improves.
• “Working with the soil... you’re going to have less inputs you have to put in, whether fertilizers or chemicals.” – Kevin (12:10)
• Supply Side: Kevin’s team aggregates beef from multiple regenerative ranches, overcoming supply shortages and land leases.

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5. Water, Soil, and California’s Environmental Crisis (13:04–17:44)

• Watershed Management: Soil organic matter allows massive water retention.
• Central Valley Issues: Topsoil loss, dust, and aquifer depletion are leading to desertification. “If you’ve ever been to the Central Valley in California, you’re going to think it’s Mordor from Lord of the Rings.” – Kevin (14:02)
• Fire Mitigation: Managed grazing (goats, sheep) could curb wildfires by reducing brush and cycling nutrients.

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6. Food, Energy, and Spiritual Health (20:59–23:23)

• Energetics of Food: Both agree that the energy and origin of food profoundly affect health and wellbeing.
• “I believe there’s an energetic component to the food you eat.” – Sean (20:58)
• Lifestyle Impact: Both discuss rejecting fast food and industrial ingredients as their awareness and health improved.

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7. Raw Milk, Dairy Laws, and Market Trends (22:06–32:13)

• Raw Milk Benefits: Both the host and guest drink raw milk for its taste and health advantages over pasteurized options.
• “Grass-fed and finished regenerative beef and raw milk are just powerhouses for transforming your health.” – Kevin (22:52)
• Legal Barriers: Raw milk remains illegal in states like Nevada, accessible in California; robust local demand at farmers’ markets.

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8. Ethics, Animal Welfare & True Transparency (32:30–35:36)

• Greenwashing: Kevin warns some market vendors falsely claim organic/regenerative status—advocates direct questioning of producers.
• Transparency: Tours and open operations can prove authenticity; Kevin’s mission: “enriching life by restoring connections, healing land, and nourishing people.”

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9. Regenerative Ranching Culture & Cowboy Traditions (35:36–38:29)

• Cow Handling: Emphasis on low-stress, natural movement—“sympathy of life on the ranch.” Stress-free animals yield superior meat.
• “When you have low stress with the animal, the cow can feel that … it’s a big part of producing beef too.” – Kevin (36:32)

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10. Wagyu, Cattle Genetics, and American Beef (37:09–41:04)

• Wagyu vs. Grass-Fed: While Wagyu tastes good, its nutrient profile is inferior and more inflammatory.
• “I believe that we can get the genetics and the finishing down on the grass fed side to equal the eating quality of grain finish.” – Kevin (38:25)
• Genetic Breeding: Kevin’s team is creating new breeds for regenerative finishing—smaller, hardier, and more naturally adapted.

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11. Slaughterhouses, Ethics, and Animal Handling (41:04–45:49)

• Facility Design: Outlines the humane protocols and innovations inspired by Temple Grandin to minimize animal stress.
• “It’s all about … until the very last moment they have misters … rubber floors … and all the lanes are designed in a way that are curved, because cows like curves.” – Kevin (42:29)
• Industrial Pigs/Chickens: Factory conditions, especially for pigs and poultry, are described as “terrible” with broad welfare and health implications.

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12. The Spiritual-Ecological-Health Connection (55:42–57:06)

• Mind & Soil: Kevin’s wife is a clinical psychologist; they view mental health and soil health as interconnected.
• “Like, I’m healing the land and she’s healing the mind … you can’t be anxiety free if you’re eating like crap.” – Kevin (56:00)
• Isolation in food patterns and loss of connection (to land, community, “pub culture”) are roots of modern illness.
• Regenerative agriculture provides not only nutrition but emotional, spiritual, and community benefits.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Regenerative Agriculture:
  “At its core, it’s mimicking nature to produce food with less inputs, more outputs, and have nutrient density really at the forefront.” – Kevin (04:44)
• On Environmental Crisis:
  “If you have bare soil, 80% of that evaporates back up into the atmosphere.” – Kevin (14:17)
• On Bulk Beef:
  “It's been saving me so much time, man. I literally bought a freezer just for the cow.” – Sean (59:21)
• On Food’s Spiritual Dimension:
  “There's an extreme amount of connection that can come though from having a relationship with what your animals do to the land.” – Kevin (24:47)
• On Slaughterhouse Ethics:
  “They have one bad day is what we like to say … To be honest, I wouldn't mind coming back as a cow on one of these.” – Kevin (36:46)
• On Fast Food and Diet Evolution:
  “I used to eat bacon every morning. I can't eat bacon anymore ... my microbiome just rejects it.” – Sean (46:00)
• On Community and Wellness:
  “That’s why I love what you’re doing too, is you're bringing awareness … to not only the health side of things, but the spiritual side.” – Kevin (55:42)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:06] – Introductions, bulk beef trend and home delivery
• [02:37] – What qualifies for regenerative labeling
• [05:39] – Nutrient density: why grass-finished matters
• [13:04] – CA water cycles, soil health, and consequences of industrial farming
• [16:43] – Livestock as fire mitigation
• [22:06] – Raw milk: health benefits, legality, demand
• [32:30] – Farmers markets, food transparency, greenwashing
• [36:32] – Cowboy culture, animal handling, and low-stress ranching
• [37:09] – Wagyu critique and better breeds for regenerative beef
• [41:04] – Humane slaughter practices and Temple Grandin’s influence
• [45:32] – Psychological/spiritual impact of food and farming culture
• [54:07] – Travel, microbiome, and dietary adaptation
• [56:00] – Soil and mental health: the new “power couple”

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a wide-ranging, highly actionable masterclass on regenerative agriculture, food quality, soil and water health, personal wellness, and the intersection of spiritual and environmental stewardship. Kevin Muno and Sean Kelly emphasize transparency, community connection, and nature-centric solutions as frameworks not just for healthier eating, but for holistic, systemic healing—body, mind, and planet.

Connect with Kevin Muno:
Website: Perennial Pastures Ranch
Instagram: @perennialpasturesranch
X (Twitter): @RegenRanching

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For more on sourcing bulk regenerative beef or raw milk, or to engage in food activism and experiential learning, visit Perennial Pastures and consider a ranch tour or their starter box.

Transcript

[Kevin]

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[Sean]

That'd be amazing.

All right, guys, we got Kevin from Perennial Pastures here today. We're going to talk cows and we're going to talk soil. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Kevin]

Let's do it. It's great to be here.

[Sean]

Thanks. Yeah. So I ordered my first cow from you. Yeah, it's been a fun experience, man. Yeah, 60 pounds of meat showed up to my door. Took us a couple hours to get it all, like, situated in the freezer.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Bulk beef's really blowing up these days for folks that, you know, want to order and get a good discount, you know, and, and get food sovereignty for their family. And it's just a huge trend right now. We're seeing a big uptick and an interest in bulk beef, so deserve to have you as a customer.

[Sean]

Yeah, dude, it's a, it's a win, win situation because like you said, you save on the price. Yeah, like a lot of money.

[Kevin]

Yeah, totally.

[Sean]

Because I order food a lot. So I'm standing, you know, a quarter cow is 2,000. I'm spending 2,000amonth just ordering food.

[Kevin]

Yeah, totally.

[Sean]

And then secondarily the health aspects. Yeah, there's stuff. Grass fed pasture raised, right?

[Kevin]

Yep, for sure. Grass fed pasture raised, regenerative. So we have a regenerative certification through Regenerat is one of our big deals that we have really great certification. It's pretty, pretty new to the market. Regenerat certification. There's only three.

Big certifications that are out there right now. And yeah, I mean, it's a huge trend, you know, really regenerative agriculture. It's a beautiful Movement when you really can come back to the soil, to the nutrient density of the food. Yeah, you know, there's, there's something special about that connection to the land.

[Sean]

Absolutely.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

So what qualifies the regenerative labels? What do you need to do for that? Really?

[Kevin]

You know, the definition of regenerative agriculture, you know, is really mimicking nature with your agricultural practices.

You know, what we try to do is mimic how the bison and buffalo used to move across the, the grassland plains for thousands and thousands of years. That dung and urination effect and that constant moving is really what's created the, the world's deepest soils. You know, you look across the Midwest where, you know, it's a breadbasket of the US and the animal impact that the bison created during that time frame is what has created like 4ft deep worth of topsoil. Right? Yeah. I mean, you, in some areas in the Midwest, you can even get deeper than that, right? Yeah. I've taken soil cores on some of the most advanced farms in the country. You might have heard of Gabe Brown. He's one of the big regenerative ranchers in the country. I had the privilege to go to his ranch and take four foot deep soil cores across his whole property. And we weren't even going deep enough to, to see the, the soil. A horizon, right?

[Sean]

Damn.

[Kevin]

Yeah. And so the, the guy who was there doing the monitoring was kicking himself that he didn't get a deeper soil core. Because we're really starting to measure this stuff now to, to a high level. And so we really don't know what the possibilities are to be, to be frank. I mean, nature is, is perfect in its design. God has designed nature in a way that.

Again, it's perfect. And so we're just at the early stages of the regenerative movement, figuring out how to get the genetics right, how to get the grazing right. It's really only been around for about 40 years. Some of these pioneers who put together a lot of different things to kind of come up with what we now call regenerative agriculture, but there's so many different things involved with it. Like permaculture, I mean, organic was kind of early on on that.

There's so many things when you talk about regenerative and a lot of different definitions. But again, to bring it back, Sean, at its core, it's mimicking nature to produce food with less inputs, more outputs, and have nutrient density really at the forefront of all that.

[Sean]

Yeah, right. Because a traditional farm is contained. Right. They're containing the Cows in a certain area.

[Kevin]

Well, all ranches start out on grass. So even conventional ranches start out on grass. That's the beauty of beef actually is that the animals do start out on grass. Whereas conventional chicken and pig farms, they spend their whole life in a barn. So the beauty of beef is even conventional animals start out on grass. That nutrient density is in the grass and that'll correlate to, to the end product even if it goes through a feedlot. So that's what most of the beef in our country today and is is.

[Sean]

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[Kevin]

Is how it's produced is in a feedlot or finished in a feedlot.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Kevin]

So cafo, you've probably heard the term cafo, Confined animal feeding operation. That's what that is. You know they, they confine them in a small area, feed them grain, fatten them up very quick. The nutrient density levels considerably drop when they're, when they're in a feedlot.

[Sean]

Really? Is that because of the grain fed food they're getting?

[Kevin]

Yes, correct. Yeah, the, the, you know, cows and herbivore, it's meant to eat forage. When you pump it full of, of grains it makes a rumen acidic. It can no longer break down the, the nutrients as, as well as it can and it gets, it gets sick and so you have to give it antibiotics. Antibiotics are big in the confined animal feeding operations because it's not natural. You know, they're, they're meant to be out roaming the pastures out on grass and, and living, living the right life. You know and we've kind of breaking that cycle though too by just having the animals out in pasture. There is such a thing as just kind of conventional rotational grazing where they're outside moving around, but not in a high density mechanism. The key to regenerative ranching and grazing is having high density, short duration periods where they knock the grass down, they pee and poop in one area that stimulates the grass to grow. And given enough time to recover that, that pulsing eating and then the recovery in the deep soil part, that's really what's the, what's building the soil. So that's how there's kind of three different ways to graze. There's well to of, of ranching. There's kind of the conventional way where they just set the cows out in the pasture. They graze in that area for the whole year or maybe they loosely rotate. So maybe they have like seven pastures, but there's really no density to it. So you're over grazing some plants and over resting other plants. That's 99% of the ranches and farms in the country today. When you move to the regenerative side, you're starting to get tighter grazing and you're moving more frequently throughout the day. So you're harvesting more material. You're harvesting, you know, evenly across the pasture. Which doesn't give preference to some grasses over others. Yeah, if the cows have the choice, they're going to go back to that ice cream plant, you know, over and over again. That's the overgrazing. Overgrazing is a function of time. So when you go back to that plant over and over again, it's going to die. And then you have less desirable plants in that pasture over time. As you overgraze the good ones and over rest the other ones. That's kind of a key function of.

[Sean]

A balance of where you're putting them and when.

[Kevin]

Exactly. Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

Yeah. And the soil quality, Right, is the lowest it's been apparently.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure. I mean there's really great studies on all the nutrient density levels declining in food. So you can even eat a pretty healthy diet. And if it's not from a regenerative operation, whether it's vegetable or grains or what have you, you're really not going to get those nutrients transferred into the food. The biology of the soil is what makes the minerals available to the plant and then the plant obviously gets consumed by the animal. We consume the animal and then we ourselves can become nutrient dense. So that's what we like to really talk about these days is the Nutrient density. So, and it's really hard to find these days. That's, you know, what we at Perennial Pastures are trying to do is make this nutrient dense food available to folks, make it easy. It's, it's really hard. Right. Like people have all these diets that they're trying to chase, whether it's carnivore or, or organic or, you know, whole food or keto, whatever the diet is. But if nutrient density is not at the foundation of that, you're really not optimizing whatever diet that you're on. If you're eating, you know, strictly meat, you know, why not eat nutrient dense meat if you can? Right. So, so find out. Find a regenerative rancher. And that's what we're doing again is aggregating from a bunch of different regenerative ranchers in the west to, to make these products more available, easy to buy. Right. You, you got your, your bulk beef shipped straight to your door, you know, from us in San Diego. Right. So yeah, I got the meat side covered.

[Sean]

So, yeah, when it comes to vegetables, because I shop at Whole Foods and Sprouts, which are like considered one of the top stores, what are the chances they use regenerative vegetables and fruits in those stores?

[Kevin]

It's a good question. I think Whole Foods is definitely making a big push to regenerat foods in general. They see it and have marked in a bunch of different articles as the number one trend in food today. Wow. At the same time, regenerative is very early on in its life cycle. Right. So to, to get into these grocery stores, you really have to be of a certain scale to make it right.

[Sean]

Because they're serving so many people.

[Kevin]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Sean]

So yeah, farms probably aren't big enough yet to order at grocery stores.

[Kevin]

Probably not yet, but they're growing and it is more of a profitable way to farm and ranch. So I believe that the, the long term macroeconomics are going to work out and. Oh, it's a more profitable, it's more profitable.

[Sean]

Oh, wow. I thought it'd be less.

[Kevin]

No, it's more profitable because when you work with the soil and you build your soil up, you're going to have less inputs that you have to put in, whether those are fertilizers or chemicals or what you're doing. Right, yeah.

[Sean]

Interesting.

[Kevin]

So that's the beauty of the economic side of things as well. And what we're trying to do too with our company is show that to our investor base, you know, other investors that we're looking to recruit. You Know, we want to scale. We're really building a supply chain, Sean, is what we're doing, you know, and it's. And it's hard because there's not a ton of supply of it right now. So we're having to work with Regenefied, which is our certification group, to go out and source those ranches. Right. And so at this, you know, again. But that's tough work. Right. It's tough work to go and find these folks. They're having a tough time sourcing cattle for us right now.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kevin]

Yeah. And we produce some of our own cows. We're ranching on 16,000 acres in San Diego County. We recently lost one lease, one 8,000 acre lease. So we're going to kind of pare back on the beef side and work with our aggregation network to bring beef to the people.

[Sean]

Did China buy that lease?

[Kevin]

You know, it's an interesting story actually. It was on water district property, which. There's over 2,000 water districts in California. I know. It's the folks that bring you your water to the house. Yeah, yeah. And I was telling them all these beautiful stories of the water cycle. And hey, when we, you know, can increase Solar Organic Matter by 1%, we can store an extra 23, 000 gallons of water per acre in the soil. Right. And nobody's talking about this in California. Right. All of these conversations around, turn the water on, you know, and, and bring it down. Well, how do we keep the water that falls there? Right, right. If you can actually store the water in the soil, the aquifers are going to get recharged, the springs are going to come back and we're going to rehydrate California. Right. Wow. I'm all for getting water to the farmers, but if the farmers are not practicing regenerative agriculture and if you've ever been to the Central Valley in California, you're going to think it's Mordor from Lord of the Rings.

[Sean]

Damn. It's not dry.

[Kevin]

It's dry. Like there's dust in the air, you.

[Sean]

Know, that's all the grows. Right.

[Kevin]

That's where all the fruit trees grow. Like I think 80% of the world's almonds, a ton of nut crops, a ton of veggies. So that, you know, so we have to get that right in California before we just say, hey, let's send the water. Because yeah, we can send it to the farmers and the ranchers, but if not, they're not doing their job making it sure that it stays in the soil. If you have bare soil, 80% of that evaporates back up into the atmosphere. Wow. And what a lot of people are not talking about too, with, you know, whatever you want to call it, you know, climate change, climate weirding. I think it's definitely been co opted by the left to push their agenda.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

But I do believe that we have a soil health crisis. Right.

[Sean]

100%.

[Kevin]

And water vapor in the atmosphere is actually the number one driver for that. Everyone's talking about carbon, carbon, carbon. It's actually water vapor. So water from rainfall hitting the ground, going back up into the atmosphere and not staying in the soil. If we could build in soil reservoirs through our farming practices, we wouldn't have to have all these storage jams. Right. And that's another big conversation in California too is all the, the dam and infrastructure. You know, we passed this bill in California for this bond to build more infrastructure. And I believe it has to get into the common language that we actually need soil infrastructure. If we had 4ft deep topsoil in California, it would stay there, not go back up into the atmosphere and there'd be much more of it. It wouldn't go out to the oceans, you know, like, like it currently is.

[Sean]

Damn, I did not know that. So I wonder if farming played a role in the, like, how you guys didn't have enough water in the fire hydrants.

[Kevin]

Yeah, potentially. You know, a lot of our water comes from Northern California through the aqueduct and then from the Colorado River. So in Southern California, we get 80% from those two sources.

The better we do with watershed management and, and in soil reservoir management, the more the whole state is going to have. Right. The more Northern California is going to be able to send that down to us. Right. So I would love for that. You know, and that's the great thing about coming on podcasts such as yours. You know, you have this massive audience, you know, and you got Grant coming on here, he's a big force in California. If we can get this, you know, into the, the, the local lexicon. Yeah, I think it becomes an amazing story because it's supporting farmers, it's supporting regeneration, it's supporting nutrient density, it's supporting water in California. Oh, by the way, we can use livestock to mitigate the fire risk as well.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah. Get goats and sheep up in those hillsides. You know, I'm from, I'm from Southern California. You know, originally I was born in la. I'm a first generation rancher, went to school in downtown la, played baseball, grew up, you know, playing baseball in Southern California. And I'm very familiar with that whole situation. You know, my uncle was on the front lines. He's a captain with the LA County Fire Department.

[Sean]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin]

And I think. I believe it or not, I think he was the firefighter pictured with a fire hose.

Putting out fires at Grant's house.

[Sean]

Wait, what?

[Kevin]

At Grant's house? Yeah, I think his wife posted a photo.

[Sean]

That's the only house that survived on that street.

[Kevin]

Okay. Yeah. So maybe he was part of that effort.

[Sean]

Shout out to him.

[Kevin]

Yeah, that'd be great. But, you know, we talk all the time because he's a rancher too. He's got a. He's got 40 acres in Central California. And we're like, we need more. We need more livestock in those hills. Reducing the fuel load to mitigate those fires. It's a. It's a great tool.

[Sean]

Oh, so they'll eat all the debris and stuff?

[Kevin]

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Wow.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's needed.

[Kevin]

In a brittle ecosystem, it's crucial to have livestock in it because the ruminant, their stomach, their rumen, is the only human environment for that vegetation to break down. Right. So grasses grow, and if they don't get eaten, if the. If the nutrients don't cycle, they oxidize in the sun and just stand there forever. Right. That oxidation also emits carbon into the atmosphere. So the brittle ecosystems in the west, you know, I mean, Vegas could be included. There's stories of. Of antelope and herbivore species all throughout these deserts in the West. Like large herds. How do those. How are those large herds there? Right. The Sahara used to be a grassland. Right. So we're going through this process of desertification right now. Where the rumen of the animal and livestock are crucial, are the crucial tool to bring that back. Right, yeah. So if we were able to cycle those dead forages, they would be removed and no longer be a fire hazard.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If Cali turns into a desert, that would be bad for a lot of people because. Yeah. Supply a lot of food to the country.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've brought some leaders in regenerative agriculture to that valley. And they said that Central Valley is the most degraded place that they've ever seen in the world. And these folks travel the world giving agricultural seminars on soil health.

[Sean]

Dan.

[Kevin]

So it's bad. It's a bad situation. I mean, to the point, Our water table in Fresno, if you see some photos of telephone poles, the whole land has subsided about 25ft, you know, from over the last 30 years. Yeah.

[Sean]

So, like so it's getting.

[Kevin]

It's getting lower. The whole land. Like, there's famous telephone pole photos where like, hey, here was our soil level.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Kevin]

In 1980. And then it's down here.

[Sean]

Well, there was always rumors of Cali going underwater, and I never thought, like, the soil was dropping. I thought the water would just get hot.

[Kevin]

Well, yeah, that's the. That's the coastline, you know, where we have, you know, the. The glaciers are melting or whatever, and.

[Sean]

We'Re getting up more water.

[Kevin]

So they're saying the. The coasts are going to rise, you know, which I think is or isn't a problem.

[Sean]

You know, I never know what to believe.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

On the news. I never know.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Well, that's what's cool about what you do, though, is you bring the experts in and you. And you get to talk to them.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

You get to. To pick their brains. I would. I want. I. I want to be a podcast.

[Sean]

You should, dude. It's a lot of fun.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

With what you do, too.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Needed. Because these messages aren't on the news.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

It comes. You, like, on the front lines.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's great. I mean, I think we're coming into this new age of media where podcasting is getting more popular than the. Than the mainstream channels you're seeing now with Rogue. Right. You know, and you're kind of getting up to that level where, you know, these messages are getting out to the people that need to hear it, and it's straight from the horse's mouth, literally.

[Sean]

Dude. I think I'm getting, like. Not to brag or anything, but, like, I think I'm getting more views than, like, cnbc.

[Kevin]

That's awesome.

[Sean]

It's nuts.

[Kevin]

That's awesome.

[Sean]

Like, just off Instagram alone.

[Kevin]

Congratulations.

[Sean]

Yeah. It's been a crazy month.

[Kevin]

Yeah. That's great. How long you've been doing this?

[Sean]

Two years.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

But, yeah, times are changing. I think people just want authenticity, and you don't get that on the news anymore. So they want people like you coming on.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Because I'm really passionate about the truth around the food industry and these sugar houses, and I. I believe there's an energetic component to the food you eat.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

And people aren't taught that at all growing up.

[Kevin]

100.

[Sean]

So when you're eating quality meat, like, that affects you.

[Kevin]

Yeah. How old are you?

[Sean]

27.

[Kevin]

Nice. That's awesome, man.

[Sean]

Yeah, I'm glad I found it out at a somewhat younger age, for sure. This stuff messes with you, man.

[Kevin]

Yeah, it really does. I Mean, we're sicker than we ever then, right?

[Sean]

I can't even eat at a restaurant anymore.

[Kevin]

I know. It's true. Yeah. You get oils like, where's the grass? I know, right? Yeah.

[Sean]

Where are we going to go? I couldn't find anywhere in Vegas.

[Kevin]

Really?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Just even searching it. Huh.

[Sean]

Grass fed. I mean, there's a couple, but like, not. It's. It's tough.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So I hope.

[Kevin]

Maybe we should start a steakhouse here, Sean.

[Sean]

We might have to. I remember when I first got seed oil scout here.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

It was like one restaurant on the whole app in Vegas.

[Kevin]

Oh, boy.

[Sean]

That didn't use seed oil. Now there's like maybe 30, 40.

[Kevin]

Okay. How long has that been?

[Sean]

Like two years.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

But they're growing.

[Kevin]

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

[Sean]

We got. You guys should get on there, actually.

[Kevin]

Yeah, we should. Yeah. There's a few restaurants that cook with our product. Shout to my buddy Darren.

[Sean]

Well, they have a products tab now, too.

[Kevin]

Oh, okay.

[Sean]

On there.

[Kevin]

Oh, cool. I didn't know that.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

I buy my raw milk on there.

[Kevin]

Oh, nice.

[Sean]

Yeah. Are you big on raw milk, dude?

[Kevin]

Huge.

[Sean]

I like it, man.

[Kevin]

We're gonna start producing it.

[Sean]

I can't even drink regular milk. I feel so bad. Even regular cheese now. Because I'm getting more and more sensitive the healthier I get.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

That's the one downside, I guess. Like, I can't eat fast food anymore.

[Kevin]

Yeah. For sure.

[Sean]

To eat that every day.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Your microbiome just rejects it. Right. It's like, hey, I'm. I'm a finely tuned machine, you know, get this. Get this junk out of there. Yeah. And that's the beauty of cultivating that system now. You know, we were probably used to it back when we were. You know, I don't know about you, but I grew up on. You're 10 years younger than me, but I grew up on Cinnamon Toast Crunch and I caught that, kids.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

So Fruit Loops. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean]

Lucky Charms was big for me.

[Kevin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sean]

And now there's glyphosate and all them.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. So coming back to the raw milk deal, I mean, I think grass fed and finished regenerative beef and raw milk are just powerhouses for transforming your health. Because let's be honest, you know, you can put that at the middle of your plate, you know, at any meal. I mean, you got the glass of milk, it's off to the side. Yeah. They're just such caloric powerhouses.

Nutrient density powerhouses and. Yeah, I hope Raw milk grows grass fed and finished beef is kind of having its, its time in the sun. I believe it's here to stay once, once you find out about it. I mean even vegans now, you know, we like a bunch of our, our customers are vegan.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kevin]

Yeah. I mean they get, they get sick eating all the, the processed stuff and then they want meat and, and food and sustenance that has a story.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

And is also good for the animal. Right. That's their, that's their biggest concern. That's their issue. So, you know, you don't get any better as far as animal welfare goes with regenerative agriculture.

[Sean]

I agree. I think it's really hard to be a healthy vegan right now.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

There's guys like Brian Johnson doing it, but he's spending a ton of money, he's getting the highest quality ingredients.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

Not everyone can afford that.

[Kevin]

Yeah. What's like, what's he eating on a daily basis?

[Sean]

He eats like he has it all published actually. We'll link it below. I can't even describe it, but just the highest quality vegan stuff. Yeah, but if you're just going to the grocery store and buying non organic vegetables, I mean there's chemicals on there, right. Pesticides and everything.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So to be a vegan is really hard these days.

[Kevin]

I mean, I would argue that we're designed to, to eat animals, you know, and to, to be in optimal health, you know, you really need to have some form of animal products.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's where I guess the spiritual side would differ, right?

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kevin]

And genetics come into a play there too, you know. So I'm with you. I think there's, there's an extreme amount of connection that can come though from, from having a relationship with what your animals do to the land.

[Sean]

Oh yeah. If it's ethically sourced. That's why I like Force of nature.

[Kevin]

Sure.

[Sean]

They're pretty good too.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean]

Because they actually hunt their animals, right? Something like that.

[Kevin]

Well, you know, I, I believe, I don't know actually too much about them. I do know that they source a lot of their stuff from New Zealand.

[Sean]

Oh really?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I thought it was US based. Maybe I'm mixing up a brand.

[Kevin]

They have Rome Ranch, which is their local ranch and then they got some of their New Zealand. They talk all about it on their, on their website.

[Sean]

I know there's one brand where they ethically like hunt their own meat.

[Kevin]

I think they do do that. They have a buffalo ranch on Rome Ranch. I'll do field. Interesting.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, that's like as good as it gets in terms of animal.

[Sean]

Exactly. Because I used to be actually against hunting growing up, but now when I talk to hunters on the podcast, it's one of the quickest and easiest ways for the animal to die, actually.

[Kevin]

For sure. Yeah. You know, a good, A good shot to the heart. You know, they're, they're.

[Sean]

Yeah, because a lot of these animals are starving to death. They're getting hunted by other animals.

[Kevin]

Oh, right.

[Sean]

Dying from disease.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you're kind of thinning and culling the herd and.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Providing room for the genetic winners to grow.

[Sean]

For sure. And they're grateful for the meat and everything. They eat the meat.

[Kevin]

So it just seems like hunters are amazing conservationists and you know, they do a lot for. They know a lot. You know, I went hunting in northern Nevada actually recently.

[Sean]

Really? What's out there?

[Kevin]

Chukar.

[Sean]

Chukar.

[Kevin]

It's a bird.

[Sean]

Oh, bird.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah, they're like overpopulated over there.

[Kevin]

No, it's been a good season because last few years have been good. Good rain.

But yeah, it's. It's an upland bird. So you hunt them with dogs.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So you send the dog out to catch it.

[Kevin]

German short hair pointers go out and they'll point before like they'll smell the bird, they'll go out, they'll point. So they like get on point with their nose and they're just like, look. And they.

[Sean]

Oh, I've seen a video, like a cartoon of that. I didn't know it was a real thing though.

[Kevin]

Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. And then you kind of sneak up on. You're like walking on the field in these gorgeous hills in the northern Nevada and you know, and then when you tell them to flush, they'll flush, get them up in the air and blast away.

[Sean]

That's a tough shot.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can get up pretty close though, you know. Yeah. Because like they'll stay down to the very last second. And if you know where the birds are, you can kind of position yourself upwind. Wow. Downwind. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's, it's. It's a really fun time. I highly. You know, if you ever want to go up in northern Nevada. Yeah, yeah, I gotta, I got a good connection.

[Sean]

Was it like chicken and it tastes good?

[Kevin]

Yeah, it's like chicken.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's the go to comparison person. Whenever I. Someone tries a new meat, it's like they say chicken I know, right?

[Kevin]

Yeah. Crocodile snake.

[Sean]

What's the most exotic thing you've consumed?

[Kevin]

Me? That's a good question.

Probably bull testicle.

[Sean]

Bull testicle?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That's what Liver King used to eat, right?

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

Was it raw or what did you cook it?

[Kevin]

We cooked it. I've had it raw. I've taken a. Well, during a branding, you know, you have a place where you, you heat your branding irons, you know, and there's usually like, I don't know, we use like a 50 gallon drum.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

And so when you're castrating, you know, your, your bowls and turning them into steers, you know, you take some of those and put them right on top and then they pop. And when they pop, that's how you know they're ready. So I've had them straight off, off the fire before.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Kevin]

But it's good when you cook them just with, with onions and garlic and butter. And my mom did a whole bunch for us on our last branding and I mean, that's some powerful stuff, your testosterone. It really does. Yeah. Yeah. Some of my buddies, you know, I'm like, hey, you gotta come out. You know, if you got low t get out and get out here, I would try it.

[Sean]

Yeah, I've had some interesting stuff too.

[Kevin]

Yeah, you know, I mean, solidino, I'll tell you, I think Paul Saladino, he'll tell you that you can actually test positive on an, on a drug test for performance enhancing drugs. No way. Yeah, he, he had like some post and, and he said, you know, like some college kid had way too many of, of the bull testicle supplement that they had and he tested positive for testosterone.

[Sean]

No way.

[Kevin]

Yeah. And you feel it. Like I had, I don't know, maybe 30 or 40 that day because there wasn't that many of us branding and we branded, I don't know, maybe 2 or 300 head in in that day. So you got like a whole bucket full of you. I had a bunch. Yeah. I had a bunch of crap. Yeah.

[Sean]

It's a lot of balls, man.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. Good thing, you know, my wife and I, we already had our two kids, you know. Geez. Yeah, we, we. Yeah, we probably wouldn't made another baby.

[Sean]

I like Paul's stuff a lot.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

He actually got in some beef with Brian Johnson. I don't know if you saw that.

[Kevin]

Brian is the vegan guy. Okay.

[Sean]

He's a guy that's trying to live forever. You've probably seen him, he's like super pale.

[Kevin]

Okay. Yeah. I think I've Heard of him, but yeah.

[Sean]

Brian was saying how meat's like, really bad for you, but Paul stood up and it was a whole.

[Kevin]

Or that's good. I saw him talk to Matt Walsh, too, at the MAHA Ball.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Gala ball or whatever. And he. Because Matt Walsh is tweet. You familiar with him?

[Sean]

I know who he is. Is he vegan or something?

[Kevin]

No, he's not a vegan. He's the guy that put together that documentary, what Is a Woman? Oh.

[Sean]

Oh, yeah. For Daily Wire. Right?

[Kevin]

For Daily Wire.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah. And he, he's tweeted a bunch of times about how raw milk is. Is not Right.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin]

Not healthy and we should be drinking pasteurized milk. And Paul sort of went up to him and they filmed it at this mom. He was like, hey, dude, like, let's, let's, you know, let's talk about raw milk. Like, you know, it's like, here's the studies. And then Mao's like, all right, dude, I'm at the ball. But, you know, like, send me the papers. I'm open to, you know, talk about it or whatever. So hopefully they have a podcast and have a good.

[Sean]

That'd be cool.

[Kevin]

A good argument about it because I, I again, you know, brown milk is, is one of those things. My wife and I have been drinking it now. I've been drinking it a little bit longer than her, but then we got her on it and we've been drinking it maybe like six years now. Yeah. Our two kids drink it, so three year old and a one year old. And we're really lucky in California because we got Raw farm. Who's. Mark McAfee, who's the leader in raw milk in all the world? He's the, he's the largest raw milk dairy in the world. And that, that's one good thing about California is we're, we're pro dairy, so we're looking forward to launching our, our raw milk brand here shortly. And because there's a huge demand for it, we're in 15 farmers markets in San Diego and it's probably the number one request that we get. Oh, it's like, hey, we love your beef, but do you have raw milk? And we're like, no. So this downsizing on our lease is a huge. Is. I think it was kind of a sign from God for us, you know, to like, all right, let's focus on the D2C. Let's build that, you know, and maybe move, move some energy over here to this raw milk.

[Sean]

I think you'll make way more off the raw milk. Yeah. Because you can't buy it in grocery stores.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Maybe in Cali you can, right?

[Kevin]

You can in Cali. But Nevada is actually, I think, the only state. There's like, two or three left where it's illegal.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Like. Like, you can't even do, like, a herd share.

[Sean]

We're like, oh, it's. Yeah. Sprouts has, like, raw kefir, but they say for dogs or something.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sean]

Other than that, you can't buy it anywhere. Even the farmers markets here.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Should look into setting up there because there's no raw milk.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

So I wonder if you'd allow that at the Summerlin Farmers market, which is a pretty big one.

[Kevin]

It's a good one here.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Do you shop there?

[Sean]

Yeah, every weekend. I get Dubai chocolate. Have you had that yet?

[Kevin]

No.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

It's so good. But, yeah, I love. I love the energy at farmers markets, even though I'm paying double the price. I don't mind it.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I like supporting local businesses.

[Kevin]

Well, it's great to actually talk to. To your farmer rancher, too, you know, and ask them questions about what they do.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Kevin]

And, yeah, we want to come out with, like, some, like, a template on what questions to ask, because there can be a little bit of greenwashing and lying, you know, at the farmers markets, you know, because, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, we're organic, but we just, you know, we don't pay for the certification or we don't use pesticides.

[Sean]

Right. They all say that.

[Kevin]

Yeah. It's like, okay, well, tell me, hey, what's your soil health management plan? You know, how are you building soil? Right. You know, and if they don't have a good plan for that or don't have a good answer, then, you know, it's. It's. I don't know. Like, we. I think just as a. As a species, we have to get more educated around food. We don't.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Really go too deep.

[Sean]

And if they had a regenerative label at the. At the. At their stand, I would love that.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

See dual Scouts doing that now on food labels.

[Kevin]

Oh, okay.

[Sean]

So they just partner with Costco. I think we're gonna start doing that on food labels.

[Kevin]

That's.

[Sean]

There's so many ingredients, people don't know what to look for for sure. I mean, they keep renaming stuff, too.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I just renamed all the food dyes, so.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

You got to look for the new name on that.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

It's nuts, man.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Dodging landmines when you're at the grocery store.

[Kevin]

Yeah. That's awesome. That's so cool. Yeah. I mean, technology, I think, is so great for stuff like that, for the transparency and. Yeah, I think that's the key, really, is the transparency, like, just opening up. We do farm tours and ranch tours. We sold out in 2023, I think, 12 farm and ranch tours, and we had about 50 people. We're lucky. We're blessed because we're in. We're in California.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

So you could fall out of bed and, you know, sell beef to, you know, 20 million people. But when they're craving for experiences like that and connection, and that's what we're really trying to do at Perennial Pastures is build that connection. You know, our. Our mission is enriching life by restoring connections, healing land, and nourishing people. You know, and so there's a spiritual element to that, too. Right. And so getting those folks out to. To see the soil, to kick the dirt, to see the animal, to see the relationship between the rancher, you know, the horse, the movement of the cattle. It's kind of like a symphony of life out there.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

On the ranch. And when people see it. Some people have come to the ranch, have never even seen a cow in their life, and when they see the cow and they see much less 2 or 300 in a herd all mobbed together, it's kind of like a profound experience for them. And you have a customer for life as long as you have a good product, you know, to sell.

[Sean]

So, yeah, it's a beautiful experience. I've been to a couple of cow farms, and they're just so pure.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah, you got some good ones here in Nevada, Northern Nevada, actually. You got some great cowboys here, too. This is. This is buckaroo country here.

[Sean]

I got to get up there to Reno. I've never been up there.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, you got to get to Reno. North of that. And Winnemucca is big cowboy country, too, all the way up to Elko up there. So the buckaroo is kind of a version of the vaquero, which was the California cowboy.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

So the Spanish came up through Mexico, settled California, trained the indigenous folks on horsemanship. The vaquero horse tradition, this natural horsemanship tradition was a melding of. Of the local natives and the Spanish, and then that kind of went through its cycle. And then the. The.

[Sean]

The.

[Kevin]

The white settlers kept coming north west, and they developed kind of their own culture here in Nevada, and they Anglicized the word vaquero to mean buckaroo or they, they just, you know, kind of change the pronunciation. So it actually comes from California, that tradition. And the tradition is like working with the horse, working with the cow. We use long ropes. It's all very low stress livestock handling. Right? Yeah, that's what it's about when you have low stress with the animal, when you're kind of at a point of center and you're one with the horse. Like, the cow can feel that. Right. And it's, it's a big part about producing beef too, because you don't want a cow that's, that's high stress. If you're, you're, you know, pushing it too hard. If you're, you know, shocking it with a cattle prod, that's going to show up in the meat flavor. Right. So you got this super tranquilo, you know, cow. Let's just relax. It's, you know, it's like, hey, this guy comes, hey. He moves me to fresh pasture, you know, every day good things happen. Every time I see this person, he's just gonna, you know, his last day is gonna be, you know, they have one bad day is what we like to say, you know, and, and I, you know, to be honest, I wouldn't mind coming back as a cow on one of these.

[Sean]

Regenerative.

[Kevin]

You just chill and eat grass.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Is that why wagyu tastes so good? They're, they're so like, carefree.

[Kevin]

Well, yeah, that's a good, that's a good point. I mean, wagyu tastes so good because they feed them a lot, so. And that's why it's so expensive. I mean, it's, it's a confined feeding deal too. And I know that that's a big trend right now as a wagyu beef, but.

When you look at the nutrient density side of that, it's not too good of a picture.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. It's really fatty.

[Kevin]

Very inflammatory. Yeah, it's like, it's like a diabetic, obese, obese cow that's just got like, very unhealthy fat. And that, that comes back to the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. Kind of optimal for human beings is 3 to 1. So 3. Omega 6 to 1. Omega 3. Some of that wagyu beef is testing, you know, north of, of 18 to 20. Omega 6.

[Sean]

Holy.

[Kevin]

So it's very inflammatory to the system. Yeah. Wow. And it's not natural, again, to like confine an animal and feed it. Now in Japan, they do it great. They have these, these artisan, you know, confined Feeding things and they do the massage and the listen that and the A5, but it's still not healthy. It tastes great. Don't get me wrong, I do like the taste of a grain finished animal. But I believe that we can get the genetics and the finishing down on the grass fed side of things to equal the eating quality of grain finish.

[Sean]

That'd be amazing.

[Kevin]

And, and that's where we're headed with our genetics. But it takes a while to build a supply chain, especially when a supply chain has been built for grain finishing. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

We used to have these smaller framed, medium framed animals that were made to finish on pasture. They just finished easier on pasture. Now we have these mega cows that put on tons of weight in the feedlot because that's how the feedlot gets paid. They get paid per pound of weight gain.

[Sean]

Right.

[Kevin]

So they want these ranchers producing these heavy framed animals because they get paid more on, on the rate of gain. Right. Which that's bad for the rancher because these larger framed animals aren't as efficient and you can carry less of those animals on the land. If you have smaller, more medium framed animals, you can carry more of animals on the land and that's more profitable for the rancher. But it also comes through if you're direct marketing that meat, it finishes better on grass purely. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

These larger framed animals need that extra energy, need that feedlot to finish properly. So it's our goal again at perennial pastures to develop something like that, you know, that finishes well. We're on our way. We're working with all of our partner ranches and our ranch as well to like, you know, come up with this genetic hybrid, you know, and when I say that, you know, it's not like a bad word like the GMO or anything. It's just we're using different bulls from different places. And we follow Johan Zeitzman's breeding philosophy. This guy from Africa who's really revolutionized the cattle industry and he mixes kind of these American breeds with actually some African breeds and they come together. All these cattle in Africa, they survive. The tsetse fly lions, hyenas, they're super adapted, right?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

We kind of got these soft cows in America. These Angus that just, you know, these.

[Sean]

Nice black and white one.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, that's the Holstein ones. There's, there's black and white. The Angus mixed with the Hereford cows has black Baldy. Those can be black and white. They have white faces.

[Sean]

Yeah. And the brown ones I've seen.

[Kevin]

Yeah, there's brown ones. There's all sorts of different colors, you know, but Angus, for some reason has just become the main popular cow in the States because, you know, finishes well in a feedlot, but it's not, you know, if you think about it, where Angus originally came from is Aberdeen, Scotland. There's a lot of areas in the, in the US I'd argue that are, that are much different than Aberdeen, Scotland. Super temperate, wet, cold environment. You put that cow from Aberdeen right here in Las Vegas and it's going to have a tough time, you know, like earning its living on a ranch here in Nevada, you know. So we're trying to, we're trying to build these composite breeds that finish well and have just as good eating quality and more nutrient density. Straight off the grass.

[Sean]

I love it. Yeah. Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse? I've had a guest come on here and talk about her.

[Kevin]

Yeah, that one. Yeah, for sure. A ton of them. We work with about four right now across the country as we build this supply chain and. Yeah.

[Sean]

What was that like, seeing the inside of that?

[Kevin]

I've been to a few, I've been to some that are better than others. We only work with really top quality operations that really take animal welfare into account. The one I'll tell you about is run by a good friend of mine, Eric Brandt, down in the Imperial Valley, and he does a great job. It's called One World Beef. And they had this gal, Temple Grandin. Have you heard that name?

[Sean]

No.

[Kevin]

Okay. She might be an interesting interview too. She's still around. She's, she's later in her years, but she's the guru of low stress livestock handling.

[Sean]

Oh, nice.

[Kevin]

She actually has autism and she's high functioning ass Asperger's, I believe that's how you say it.

[Sean]

Right? Yeah.

[Kevin]

And she kind of was raised on a ranch and just.

Found out, you know, some ways of handling cows because she's extra sensitive to sort of light and feeling and kind of touch.

She, she found out a way to develop a whole method for making sure that the cow's comfortable in these facilities.

[Sean]

Really?

[Kevin]

Yeah. She actually built herself. There's, there's some really good documentaries on her because she would have these episodes. She went to, she went to college, right. And highly trained professor, doctor. And she would have tough times sometimes in college to have these episodes. She, she built herself a cattle chute. Right. Because observing cows on this ranch in, in Arizona, we actually know the ranch she grew up boot and racket ranch in. So Arizona. I've been to it. She Observed these cows and these certain shoots, when they would get their head stuck in them, they would rattle around and, you know, they'd be very, you know, agitated. Well, she found out that when you squeeze the sides of them, they totally chilled, right? So she was kind of the one that came up with. With the. The cradling of the cow. And when they're nice and tight, they totally chill and they relax.

[Sean]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin]

So she built herself a chute. Holy college, you know, because she wanted to feel the same feeling, right? She's like, hey, I said, I'm kind of, you know, I'm in tune with these cows. And so she built herself a homemade deal. And that's how, like, she kind of got through a lot of her early, you know, stage. But it's. It's all in the documentary. And so this facility we use in. In Imperial Valley in Southern California, that was designed by Temple Grandin. And it's all about the, you know, until the very last moment. You know, they have misters because it's kind of in the desert. They got misters for the cows. They got rubble rubber floors for the cows when they first come out. All the lanes are designed in a way that are curved because cows like curves rather than straight lines. They don't use any cattle prods, so the cattle produce the electronic deal to, like, move them up. No cattle prods. And you have to sign an affidavit. Even the truckers that truck into there have to sign an affidavit that says I won't use. And we exclusively say that with all of our truckers. Don't use this, don't use that. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So occasionally you'll get one animal that's, like the really stubborn. And no matter what you do and it's holding up your operation, you. You give them one little. One little, you know, shock to get them going. You know, massive animals, it doesn't really hurt them, but continuous, shocking, really, you know, raises the cortisol levels, drops the glycogen levels. Glycogen is what you want at a high frame, at a high level before you slaughter. That's what's going to create your tenderness, your flavor.

[Sean]

Yeah, I've seen documentaries on how smart pigs are.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Have you seen this?

[Kevin]

No.

[Sean]

So apparently they're really smart, super smart.

[Kevin]

And what's the name of the documentary?

[Sean]

I forget. Well, I'll find it and link it in the video. But just, like, ethically seeing them at slaughterhouses, I don't know. I know some of its programming Too. They're trying.

[Kevin]

Well, pigs are. The pig. The pig deal is terrible, you know, to be honest, how we produce it, you know, and kind of who owns China Just bought Smithfield, you know, and the pig and chicken deal is 10 times worse than the beef side. At least we have a ton of independent American ranchers still, you know, running their own operations. A lot of these chicken and pig producer contracts, they're almost like indentured servitude to produce for Tyson and Smithfield. All these, you know, confined feeding operations. And. Yeah, they're terrible. They never see outside.

[Sean]

Damn.

[Kevin]

So coming back to the spiritual point, right? You've had Zach Bush on here. I think he talks about this, like, if you've had a confined chicken, you know, sometimes, like, you feel different afterwards. And he'll. I think he's got descriptions of women having a chicken salad at lunch, and all of a sudden, afterwards, they get an anxiety attack.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Because that's all that. That chicken knew. Right. And its whole life was a confined deal. Right. They lived in a cage. It's whole, you know, so that's. Imagine eating that energy. Right?

[Sean]

I mean, I know I used to eat bacon every morning. I can't eat bacon anymore.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

This is like the highest quality.

[Kevin]

There are good pastured p. It's really hard to find a regenerative one, though, because pigs can be pretty tough on pasture.

[Sean]

They eat everything, right?

[Kevin]

Yeah. And they. They root and they, like, till the ground with their noses. And that's a big kind of. No, no. And regenerative agriculture, we don't till the soil that oxidizes the organic matter. And.

[Sean]

And I didn't know they did that.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That's what I'm saying, though. They're pretty smart. Like, people think they're smarter than dogs.

[Kevin]

Yeah, they're super smart. I love pigs. We want to start a pig operation on our place. My wife and I had the. The blessing of going to Spain, and they have this special pig out there.

[Sean]

Iberico, right?

[Kevin]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Sean]

I had it at a restaurant here.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Jose Andreas restaurant, I think.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. And he's done. He was a guy that did some Anthony Bourdain, a lot of.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Stuff with him. Right. Yeah. So they have this region in Spain called the Dehesa, and it's all oak savannah, kind of grasslands. They do till underneath there. But we went actually to the Hamona barricade. I dragged her to the Hamona Barrico Museum. We're the only ones there. They had to turn the lights on for Us.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Kevin]

And that, you know, that was part of our vacation.

[Sean]

No one was. She's used.

[Kevin]

What's that?

[Sean]

No one went there.

[Kevin]

Well, it's in a small village, like, north of Sevilla, about an hour, you know, and, like, I specifically searched it out. I was like, babe, I want to learn about Homona Barrico, you know? Yeah. So we go to this. We go to this small museum, and it was awesome. I mean, they tell you about the whole process and all the aging, how they're finished on acorns and all that.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Kevin]

And. Yeah. And so.

So I. I think that could be a product. It's very hard to pull off, like I said, though, in a regenerative manner. You have to constantly move the pigs. And in nature, that's what pigs would do. They would just go from one area to the next, you know. So, yeah, in. In a pastured situation, you just got to be really on top of your fencing and move them a lot so you can find those operators. But, like, you would have to order Sean from, like, somebody like Joel Salatin from, you know, Swoop, Virginia. There's like. Like, I don't know, there's like five to ten, you know, good regenerative pig producers that I could. Yeah, I could name.

[Sean]

You know, I saw Joel's farm on a video.

[Kevin]

Oh, cool.

[Sean]

Looks pretty good.

[Kevin]

Yeah, he just did this new documentary, like Angels Acres or something, like.

[Sean]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin]

But, yeah, he's got a ton of documentaries out there.

[Sean]

Yeah, he's doing some. Some God's work right there.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah, yeah, He's. He's not. He's one of the pioneers. And guys like me, the next generation, we're standing on, you know, his shoulders. Allen. Savory shoulders. Will Harris, you know, both Will and. And Joel, Ron Joe's podcast, you know, which I think has really.

Risen the awareness around regenerative agriculture. Yeah, man.

[Sean]

Yeah. I hope big food doesn't buy him out, because that's what happens with these ranches. Right?

[Kevin]

Yeah. I think the beauty of. Of, you know, both of those operations is the next generation loves what the whole operation is about. You know, Joel's got. His son Daniel is going to take over. I think he's my age, maybe a little bit older. And then Will has his. His daughter Jenny, and. And she's awesome, too, you know, so, like, you know, Will's farm, he's fifth generation. I think Joel's third or fourth. So when you make it fun and you're profitable and you're producing a product for customers that rave about, you what's not to like? Like, there's no. I think there's no better life in this world than the life of a. Of a regenerative farmer that's doing amazing work.

[Sean]

I agree. You're in touch with nature. You're eating great food.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Making a living for your family. It's like a win. Win across the board.

[Kevin]

100. Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah. With you on that. I actually want to get a ranch when I'm older, like, on the side.

[Kevin]

Cool.

[Sean]

I like how Tai Lopez lives in three spots a year.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah, that's great.

[Sean]

One of them's in a city and then one in a suburb.

[Kevin]

There you go.

[Sean]

Perfect balance. Like the business.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Off the grid.

[Kevin]

I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife and I have been talking about that because we live on five acres in between two of our leases. Right. So that's kind of our, like, suburban, kind of like homestead spot.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

But definitely want a big ranch, you know, someday. And then maybe, like, a beach house would be awesome.

[Sean]

That's the way to do it.

[Kevin]

Yeah. But hopefully regenerative keeps building, you know, and. And taking off and. And that's what we need. I think if we have regenerative ranchers, you know, being successful, you know, on the land, profitable, I think that's what's gonna. That's what it's gonna take to, like, move this behemoth that is our food system. You know, we're driving down the road here in Vegas and just seeing kind of all the strip malls. And I was joking to my wife Dina about. We were driving through China. Chinatown. What are your house.

[Sean]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I live right by. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kevin]

And I was like, what are the hotsp. There's any seed oil free, you know.

[Sean]

Nine shots in China five town. I eat there. I feel like shit for a week.

[Kevin]

I was like. I was like, we'll know we've made it when Chinatown is cooking with. With tallow. Like, all the restaurants are cooking with some sort of tallow or lard.

[Sean]

Yeah. From.

[Kevin]

That's. That's when we'll made it.

[Sean]

Well, it's starting. Steak and shake.

[Kevin]

Okay, cool.

[Sean]

The announcer using tallow.

[Kevin]

That's great. For their fries.

[Sean]

Yeah. Nice. Which is the first, I believe, the first fast food to make that change.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Now you got Chipotle announcing they're gonna get away from Cedar Wallace.

[Kevin]

That's great.

[Sean]

Which is huge. I see Chipotle every day. For sure. Yeah. They use seed oils.

[Kevin]

Yeah. I mean, in college, you know, I played baseball, and that was like, our protein stuff.

[Sean]

Same Yeah, I was runner.

[Kevin]

Oh, nice.

[Sean]

10 bucks you could get. Thousand calories.

[Kevin]

That's cool.

[Sean]

Pretty good deal.

[Kevin]

What was your event?

[Sean]

Mile 100.

[Kevin]

Oh, sweet.

[Sean]

Yeah. Did you ever run?

[Kevin]

No. My mom did. She was track and field for ucla. Oh, nice. Yeah, she was like Iron man kind of. Yeah.

[Sean]

She's a beast.

[Kevin]

I come from a family of athletes. My brother played professional baseball for the New York Mets. Dad played football for. For Notre Dame. Let's go on Tampa.

[Sean]

That's my favorite school.

[Kevin]

Nice. Notre Dame. Really?

[Sean]

I'm half Irish, baby.

[Kevin]

You are sweet. Yeah, I figured. Sean Kelly.

[Sean]

Super Irish.

[Kevin]

I'm Kevin. Patrick. Dude.

[Sean]

Yeah, my cousin's name Patrick. I've been to Ireland. Okay. Pretty cool.

[Kevin]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Sean]

A lot of farms out there.

[Kevin]

Let's have a dairy farm in Ireland. That's what we would do.

[Sean]

Well, it rains a lot there, man. I don't know if that's good or bad.

[Kevin]

It's great. Oh, it's great. It's so mild there too. You know, Dean and I've been there as well and it's super mild and it's a great grass growing environment. I mean like anywhere, you know, like Ireland or the UK is like amazing. Grass growing.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

I know a guy in the uk, he's got a mobile dairy operation he's running. He's milking 400 cows in a mobile situation. Moving around not, not like with the. Because most dairies have these like sedentary milking parlors where the cows have to go back to every day.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

This guy's got a mobile operation. So he's able to do the high density rotational grazing.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Kevin]

Yeah. With a mobile milking thing. So he's got two full time, two and a half full time equivalents milkers and he's, you know, he's got an extremely profitable operation right there out of London. So we were talking recently because that's the next step for us with our fort because we're going to start a 40 cow dairy this year and the next step would obviously to. To 10 exit and. And to do 400. So he's got this specific parlor that he's designed that's a double herringbone and it's. It's an awesome system.

[Sean]

So that's beautiful. It probably helps keep the cows not stressed out too if, if they're not going forced to be somewhere to milk.

[Kevin]

For sure. Yeah. The milk will go up because they have to walk a lot less. They can just hang out right in the pasture.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. How much milk can you get out of a cow? I'm curious.

[Kevin]

It depends. I mean, certainly these big Holsteins that are in these massive confined areas, I think upwards of eight. Eight gallons. Eight gallons a day, White. Yeah.

[Sean]

They're releasing that much.

[Kevin]

Yeah. But when you milk them that hard, and for that. For that young, and it's all about production. They only produce two to three years of their. Their life, and they really start slowing down and then they turn them into meat.

[Sean]

Meat.

[Kevin]

So, like all the in and out burger.

[Sean]

Yeah, that.

[Kevin]

That you've. I'm sure you've had it. I love it. Yeah. That's my guilty pleasure.

[Sean]

I love it.

[Kevin]

I know, like, I'm all about region and see, but, like, I just.

[Sean]

I just, you know, they're using those cows that are.

[Kevin]

I wish they were. I. Hopefully they. They go to. Yeah, but they're using the dairy cows. Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

So those are cows that no longer can even produce milk.

[Kevin]

Yeah. They just grind them up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's all right. I mean, you're not, you know, like, you gotta have something.

[Sean]

I eat it like, once a month. It's so.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Fast.

[Kevin]

I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean]

My other guilty pleasure. Is this all you can eat? A 5 wagyu spot?

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. My God.

[Sean]

Take 100 bucks. All you can eat.

[Kevin]

Okay. Dang.

[Sean]

But last time, I. I almost threw up. Everyone else threw up. I was with. We went way too hard.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Like, if you eat too much of that, it's, like, so rich. Yeah, for sure. I mean. Yeah. And it's just so rich. And your body's not used to that level of richness. I mean, you can. You can. Really.

Yeah. It's like your microbiome gets used to eating all this clean, great food and. And the bacteria and everything that. And fungi that's in your gut. It's just like, hey, yeah, keep giving me that. And then. Yeah. When you switch it up so hard.

[Sean]

That's why traveling's tough for me.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

My travel, especially to other countries, but even within the U.S. yeah. I like, eat something and I feel it.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Immediately.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Because of the gut microbiomes.

[Kevin]

When did you go to Ireland?

[Sean]

I went five, six, maybe six years ago.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Sean]

Yeah. I ran the whole time.

[Kevin]

Yeah. You go to Dublin, obviously.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin]

And then where else?

[Sean]

Dublin. And we went to, like, random villages that had, like, 100 people living there. They had five bars.

[Kevin]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's the best part about Ireland. And I think we need some of that in our culture is like the Pub culture, like we've lost this like local village, you know, and I think you're starting to kind of see it come back in the food system where like you're connected and then there's these meeting spots, but like that whole pub culture where you have these super low alcoholic, you know, Guinnesses and Murphy's, you know, 3% ABV, you know, and you're just there really for the conversation with. Right. With your friends.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin]

That's a huge part. You know, that's why I love what you're doing too, is you're bringing an awareness, I think, to not only the health side of things, but the spiritual side. Oh, yeah, well, both because you. My wife's a clinical psychologist and you know, that's, I mean, that's what we, we're doing. Like I'm healing the land and she's healing the mind.

[Sean]

Oh, I love that.

[Kevin]

Yeah, perfect. So like we're like, we're like this power coup, you know, and it's needed, Right. Because you can't have one without the other. Like you, you, you can't be anxiety free if you're eating like crap.

[Sean]

Right. I've never seen that.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

No one can pull that off, I think.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

It just messes with your body.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And so I think, you know, it's, it's important.

To have that connection to, to. There's something about the food connection and that's great for the brain where, I mean, that's what mental illnesses are. Right. They're isolation sort of illnesses. Right. You get so caught up in your mind pattern and your thoughts.

And you just think you're all on it on your own. Well, in reality, you're connected to this larger organism and this larger being and you have a role to play in the stewardship of that, that. And when you have that realization, it just, I, I don't know, it brings, it brings forth this, this abundance, this relaxation, this like, okay, I'm part of a larger whole.

[Sean]

Right.

[Kevin]

Which is so important, I think, for mental health just to realize, you know, whether you do meditation or whether you pray or whatever you do, it's all about, you know, like, we're all part of this, this one oneness in the world. You know, we're all trying to, to inch it and make it better and enhance the vibration and all that. So I don't know, I think, I think it's a cool. You know, both of those fields are dealing with complexity too. Like psych. The mind is so complex and nature so Complex.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

So managing both those things, it's really interesting. It is. Yeah.

[Sean]

We're just scratching the surface on it. We know.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

A little about the brain. It's crazy.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Do you meditate?

[Sean]

Depends on your definition. Not like your traditional meditation where I close my eyes and like hum for 15 minutes. Right. I had practices.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you do anything like pretty events or anything when you were competing as track and.

[Sean]

No. I wish I knew what I knew now. Especially about nutrition. Oh my God. I probably would have been a professional.

[Kevin]

Oh, totally. Yeah.

[Sean]

I knew what I knew now. Oh, I bet I was eating the shittiest food.

[Kevin]

Oh yeah.

[Sean]

And I was still really good.

[Kevin]

Muscle milk. Yeah. Yeah. They were pushing on that as hard and calling lunchables. Oh yeah.

[Sean]

French fries.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Unhealthy stuff. And I was still running a 440.

[Kevin]

Mile eating like that's awesome.

[Sean]

So if I ate amazing and I had the mindset stuff I have now, for sure I could have ran a four minute mile.

[Kevin]

That's awesome.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Which. That's like pretty world class, right? If you're undersight.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, back in the day was. Now it's. A lot of people have done it, but it's still impressive.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. You got a good frame for. For running?

[Sean]

Yeah, I got the lens.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, dude, it's been cool. People find out more about you and Perennial Pastures.

[Kevin]

Perennial Pastures Ranch is our website. That's the main deal. You can follow us on social. We're on Instagram too. Perennial Pastures Ranch. And we're on X as well. Regen Ranching on X. So yeah, give us a try. We got a Regen sampler box going right now which is 79 bucks. Good entry point. We send you a steak and a roast and a piece of ground beef and it's a good entry point. You know, if you're not used to beef in bulk or you're not ready for that yet, just give it a try and then hopefully, you know, you migrate to that. That's where we'd like everybody to be is just have a. A freezer at home and you know that you got all this sustenance for your family. You don't have to go to the grocery store. You know, every week you can just pull a steak out of the freezer. But if you're not ready for that. We got all sorts of great boxes.

[Sean]

Yeah. It's been saving me so much time, man. I literally bought a freezer just for the cow.

[Kevin]

That's.

[Sean]

And I haven't been to the grocery store since I used to go, like, twice a week.

[Kevin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sean]

So it saves you a lot of money up front and then also money with the timers.

[Kevin]

Yeah, we got that free freezer deal going, too. So if you don't have a freezer, we could ship you a freezer anywhere in the country. Oh, wow. So that's. Yeah. If that's a. An impediment to you getting and, you know, some sustenance and nourishment for your family, then we can take care of that for you.

[Sean]

Smart.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Well, dude, thanks for coming on. That was awesome.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I'm out, guys. I'll see you next time.