Rollo Tomassi: I Wasn’t Supposed To Win That Dr. Phil Debate | DSH #1563

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode #1563

Guest: Rollo Tomassi
Host: Sean Kelly
Date: October 11, 2025
Title: Rollo Tomassi: I Wasn’t Supposed To Win That Dr. Phil Debate

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and often candid conversation, Sean Kelly sits down with Rollo Tomassi—author, commentator, and prominent figure in the “manosphere”—to explore the realities of being a controversial voice online. The discussion delves into censorship, the reputation and mischaracterization of “red pill” philosophy, generational shifts in media consumption, and the challenges of maintaining authenticity and relevance in a rapidly evolving digital landscape. Rollo also reflects on his now-infamous Dr. Phil appearance, his ongoing projects to help men “reignite” their lives, and the persistent misunderstandings and projections about his work.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Dr. Phil Debate and Mischaracterization of Red Pill (00:58, 45:51)

• Rollo recounts his 2021 Dr. Phil appearance, where producers expected him to be “some sort of frothing at the mouth misogynist.” Instead, he came prepared and defied those expectations.
  • “They weren’t expecting that…they need you to be that cartoon character.” (01:00, 45:51)
• He insists public portrayals of himself and the red pill community are often one-dimensional and opportunistic, focusing on “cartoon caricatures” rather than the substance of the movement.

2. Current Projects: “Reignite” and Life After Midlife (01:44, 02:19)

• Rollo describes his new community and book project, “Reignite,” which targets men rebuilding after long-term relationships or midlife crises.
  • “A lot of guys are coming out of really bad relationships or bad marriages…they’re just trying to rebuild their lives and put themselves back together.” (01:44)
• The group provides camaraderie, practical advice, and shared activities—contrasting with other “men of action” programs aimed at a younger crowd.

3. Censorship and Content Suppression (04:48, 07:29)

• Rollo details governmental and NGO efforts to suppress or redirect traffic from controversial creators in the manosphere, referencing shadow banning and explicit attempts to push viewers toward “state-approved positive masculinity sites.”
  • “It was intentionally designed…to redirect my traffic…and people didn’t want to believe…but now suddenly we have 100% confirmation.” (04:55)
  • “It’s primarily an effort to get you to quit—cut off your oxygen until it’s no longer worth it for you to bother.” (07:29, 08:11)

4. The Modern Content Creator’s Dilemma (08:20, 10:58, 12:44)

• Discusses the diminishing returns of YouTube as a revenue source and changes in the super chat algorithm that limit creator earnings.
  • “YouTube is just outreach. I just do it because it’s a labor of love.” (12:44)
• Substack and direct subscription platforms offer better financial stability for writers and niche creators.

5. Social Media Trends: Clips, Attention Span, and Misunderstanding (14:29, 16:38)

• Critiques the “clipification” of social media and associated reduction in attention spans.
  • “Nobody reads…We listen to our books for sure. My first book came out in 2013—so if you don’t know what I wrote…you’ve had 12 years to read.” (15:11)
• Short clips lead to frequent misinterpretations and strawman arguments against red pill ideas.
  • “People presume you mean something that you never intended because they didn’t see the hour you built up to that one clip.” (16:38)
  • “If you give them data…facts without feelings…they will hate you for it if it doesn’t align with their belief set.” (17:07)

6. Red Pill: Net Positive or Negative? (20:00)

• Rollo argues the red pill has been “absolutely” a net positive, despite popular criticism.
  • “For every guy out there that’s super critical, I can point to another 100 or 200 whose lives are bettered by this.” (21:49)
  • Reveals direct messages from men who credit the philosophy for saving their lives and restoring their families.

7. Dealing with Hate and Projection (24:23, 25:13)

• Rollo explains the psychology of online hate: most hate is projection and a very small minority compared to total viewers.
  • “Of those who comment, and of those who comment negative, it’s small, minute—but those are the ones you focus on.” (24:44)

8. Name Authenticity, Safety, and Pseudonyms (25:41, 26:04)

• Discusses use of pseudonyms for privacy and safety, challenging critics who question his legitimacy for not using his birth name.
  • “Do you think Fresh is his real name? … Gene Simmons—not his real name. Paul Stanley—not his real name.” (25:45, 26:00)

9. Feminism and Societal Shifts (26:35, 29:09)

• Rollo asserts feminism has always been about supremacism, not equality, and links its modern influence to the advent of birth control.
  • “The best thing that ever happened to feminists was the pill…It put the reproductive process of all humanity in the hands of one sex.” (29:09)

10. Vasectomy Tweet, Viral Moments, and the Telephone Game (32:02, 35:19)

• Revisits his viral “get a vasectomy” tweet and the way social media exaggerates or misconstrues controversial statements.
  • “That’s how people get portrayed online—it’s one big telephone game.” (35:19)
  • “By the end of the week, you’re canceled.” (36:03)

11. Mainstream Media, Public Discourse, and Being Frozen Out (36:09, 39:20)

• Notes how mainstream shows avoid booking him, preferring safer, pre-approved voices, citing fear of sponsor backlash and lost revenue.
  • “They’re already convinced I am the character that other people have made me out to be.” (36:38)
• Reveals he and Myron Gaines were invited to an Oxford Union debate/discussion on masculinity.
  • “If the boogeyman goes up on the podium at Oxford University and sounds like a Rhodes Scholar, then suddenly, you have a different opinion.” (45:51)

12. The Reality Behind Manosphere Growth and Critiques (47:09)

• Observes that popular hosts now want to talk about men’s issues, but lack the history and background the “old school” manosphere has developed since 2004.
  • “People think the manosphere begins and ends with Andrew Tate and Pearl Davis or Fresh & Fit—but I’ve been doing this since 2004.” (49:19)

13. New Docuseries: Lonely Fans (49:55)

• Rollo and Mike Sartain feature in a new docuseries by Rebel Media on OnlyFans’ social impact.
  • “It’s a very impactful docuseries…an expose on OnlyFans and how it has undermined intersexual dynamics in a very short time.” (49:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dr. Phil:
  “They weren’t expecting that…they need you to be that cartoon character.” (01:00, 45:51)

• On Content Suppression:
  “It was intentionally designed…to redirect my traffic…and people didn’t want to believe…now we have 100% confirmation.” (04:55)

• On Modern Media:
  “If you give them data and you don’t tell people how to feel…they will hate you for it.” (17:07)

• On Red Pill’s Impact:
  “For every guy that’s really super critical, I can point to 100 or 200 whose lives are bettered as a result.” (21:49)

• On Feminism:
  “The best thing that ever happened to feminists was the pill…It put the reproductive process of all humanity in the hands of one sex.” (29:09)

• On Misrepresentation:
  “It’s one big telephone game—everything online…they’ll fixate on one thing, and then it’ll get passed around.” (35:19)

• On Exclusion from Mainstream Platforms:
  “They’re already convinced I am the character that other people have made me out to be.” (36:38)

• On Oxford Invitation:
  “If the boogeyman goes up behind the podium at Oxford University and he sounds like a Rhodes scholar, then suddenly you have a different opinion of the guy.” (45:51)

• On OnlyFans Docuseries:
  “It’s going to be a very impactful docuseries…an expose on OnlyFans and how it has undermined intersexual dynamics.” (49:59)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:58 | Dr. Phil expectations & debate | | 01:44 | “Reignite” community for men rebuilding | | 04:48 | Content suppression by NGOs and US government | | 08:11 | YouTube algorithm changes and shadow banning | | 12:44 | Shifting from YouTube to Substack | | 14:29 | “Clipification” and short attention spans | | 17:07 | Data, emotion, and hate from misunderstanding | | 20:00 | “Red Pill” has been a net positive | | 24:44 | The psychology of online hate | | 25:45 | Use of pseudonyms online | | 26:35 | Historical view of feminism | | 29:09 | Impact of birth control & male sterilization | | 35:19 | The social “telephone game” | | 36:38 | Mainstream avoidance and freezing out | | 39:20 | Oxford invitation and shifting discourse | | 45:51 | Boogeyman in the ballroom—media caricatures vs. reality | | 47:09 | Longevity & real history of the manosphere | | 49:55 | Rebel Media docuseries on OnlyFans |

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Digital Social Hour is an unfiltered, inside look into the challenges, backlash, and fatigue that often face those who disrupt popular narratives, especially around gender, dating, and self-improvement for men. Rollo Tomassi pulls back the curtain on the mechanics of modern discourse—revealing both the hostility and the life-changing impact of his work—while probing the responsibilities and realities of influencer culture in the age of social media. If you want to understand the evolving debate around masculinity and authenticity in media, this episode delivers rich context and provocative insights straight from a veteran in the space.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

Was that an ambush? I didn't watch that episode.

[Rollo Tomassi]

When I had gone on Dr. Phil back in 2021, they were expecting me to be some sort of frothing at the mouth misogynist who couldn't stand the sight of a woman or something. And to the point where it's like, I've got an answer for everything. And they weren't expecting that. And I don't think a lot of other people are expecting that either, because they need you to be that cartoon character.

[Podcast Host]

All right, guys, got him back on today.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Rolo.

[Podcast Host]

Hey, what's new, man?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Thanks for having me back. Thanks for just calling me out of the blue. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Been going to White Republic a lot lately.

[Rollo Tomassi]

No, not yet. I'm probably July or August, I think.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Let's see what you've been working on lately. The Pod.

[Rollo Tomassi]

So I've got. Jeez, I got a lot of irons in the fire. I'm working on a sixth book right now. I have a new program, program called Reignite, which is sort of. It's a. It's a community guys. It's sort of a tribe of guys. But it was an idea I had with a good friend of mine, Joe Marone, and they were part of Mike Sartain's Men of Action, and he and I just sort of saw a need there. And we're like, you know, there's a lot of guys who are, like, sort of older and, you know, I just turned 57, so.

[Podcast Host]

Happy birthday.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Thank you. It was back in April, and so we. We sort of. Joe and I are about the same age, and we thought, you know, a lot of guys are trying to rebuild their lives. They're trying to sort of just make sense of it all. Like, a lot of guys are coming out of, like, some really bad relationships or, or bad marriages after 20 plus years. And, you know, the, I mean, the prime demographic for guys who are like, prone to like, deleting themselves are right around 43, 45. Somewhere around there. Between 45 and 65 somewhere.

[Podcast Host]

Midlife crisis and.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, more or less, but it's usually just sort of like this, you know, midlife epiphany, I think is probably a better, better term for it. But they're just. They don't understand the, the intricacies of the sexual marketplace. And in many cases, they're coming out of relationships that might have been 20, 25 years.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And so, so we decided we were going to put together this group called Reignite. And then we had a lot of people saying, well, if I'm not 45 years old, can I join? And I'm like, yeah, there's. There's no age limit. It's just basically for guys who are just trying to rebuild themselves and put themselves back together. And so where we kind of differ from what Mike's been doing is we kind of play defense, and Mike's sort of offense.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, he's got a younger crowd, right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah. Well, I mean, if we were a football team, he'd be the offensive coordinator and I'd be the defensive of Courtney.

[Podcast Host]

That's why you two work well together.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Oh, Mike and I are just. He's like. He's like a brother to me, so. But we do a lot of good work together. And so Joe and I have been doing this for almost a year now, and it's starting to take on a character of its own.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And so we did. And we do a lot of, you know, fun events. It's not like a. It's not like a mastermind in our classroom setting or anything like that. It's just like guys getting together and, and doing things that we like to do and then having good discussions because that's how men communicate. Right. It's like we have to have a project or we have to have a problem to solve collectively. And that's where real communication takes place between guys. So, you know, if we go deep sea fishing or if we go to the shooting range or if we go play golf or whatever their particular shared interests are. So we try to do, schedule event. We do probably, you know, maybe four or five events a year, but we have a community and stuff. So that's one project I'm working on. And then the book Reignite is a sort of inspired by that. So I'm using the book as sort of a primer, I guess.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

For the guys in the program. And then gosh, beyond that, we're still doing Access Vegas. We've been almost three years now.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And still doing my show, the Rational mail, every Sunday, 1pm Pacific, 4pm Eastern. But making YouTube work these days is a, is quite a challenge. Yeah, being shadow banned, being on a DHS watch list, being a part of a NGO experiment over the last 18 months, two years. Which was funny because I can remember when the biannual report came out for, for the ngo, which is called diverting hate here. When they first came out with the biannual report and then of course they promptly took it down from, from public consumption, everybody thought I was being very conspiratorial. And now Suddenly we have 100% confirmation of it and everybody wants to sort of jump on board and, you know, pretend that they've always been a part of that. Well, I was part of a select group of people who were sort of guinea pigs for, for a program that was meant in, intentionally designed, I should say, to redirect my traffic and Rich Cooper's traffic, Fresh and Fit's traffic, Aaron Clary's traffic to state approved or positive masculinity sites, whatever that means. And people didn't really want to believe that it was a, you know, funneled money through the DHS to, what was it, the McCain Institute at ASU, and then it goes to the NGOs from there. So it's, it's almost like money laundering, but it's taxpayer dollar money laundering. And it's not just for the manosphere, by the way. I didn't realize this until later on, but it's, it was for. There were similar NGOs that were designed to sort of limit free speech for conservative talking pundits, I guess as well. And I didn't realize that until I started looking into the, the say Senate hearings, or maybe it was congressional hearings for Elijah Crane, who was a guy out of. He's. I think he's a congressman out of Ariz. And I thought it was interesting because it was exactly what I was going through, but he was talking about it from a different perspective. It was, it was conservative media outlets, I guess, were under the same kind of scrutiny where they were having their traffic deliberately redirected using US taxpayer dollars to do so. And so like, wait, we. It was us too. It was us first.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Rollo Tomassi]

So it was, it was an eye opener. I've Always known that I've been shadow banned. It's one thing to get shadow banned, it's another thing to like have, have the monkey around with your traffic. You and I were talking earlier off camera and I was saying it's primarily an effort to get you to quit.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

What it is, it's not about, I mean, if YouTube wanted to delete you, they can just delete you anytime they want to, but they do that too many times. And then people go, okay, well you can't get it. Like, who can make money on YouTube? Why bother? But the thing is, is now is rather than, rather than delete you or just take you out entirely, they just cut off your oxygen until you just quit until it's no longer worth it for you to, to bother.

[Podcast Host]

So it's tough, man. Like you, you almost have to have a safety net as a content creator these days. Like if you come in completely broke, it's going to be really tough to make a living. Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

YouTube is no longer what it used to be, I don't think. Not like, you know, like the Mr. Beast days, you know, like when, if you got in earlier, you're an early adopter or something like that, you probably did pretty well. PewDiePie and stuff like that, you're probably, you're probably okay. But, but if you're trying to start something new right now, and especially if it's in a niche that's kind of, well, by their terms, questionable, then there's probably better ways to go about if that's the niche you've chosen. There's probably better ways to do, to, you know, get more exposure media wise than using YouTube at this point. And that's not to say that YouTube's, you know, inherently bad. It's just that it's just one of many platforms right now and it seems to be the controlled and the most tightly controlled right now. So for, for my, my model of, of using YouTube is I do live content. I've always done live and I've had a healthy respect for guys who will do live stream because you're right there. And it's what I call engagement media. So if I've got, you know, 2000 people in the chat, 2500 people in chat, I have more people in a live situation than I did when I went on Dr. Phil, which is people in a live studio. Right, right. So there's a, it's a, it's kind of a different animal to be doing things on a live situation. So it used to be back in the day you could make a lot of money by doing super chats. Like people would throw out $100 super chat, $500 super chat. Whatever the max was, I don't know. And nowadays I don't know about other content creators but I do know this is if I look at like the guys from, or like Brian from whatever podcast. His podcasts have been getting progressively longer and longer and longer to the point where he's doing like 10 hour podcast because the revenue model was to do a live stream and basically farm it for super chats. And that was, that's how you made money and that's how fresh and fit made money and that's how whatever and, and that's how we were doing it for a long time. But now it seems to me that YouTube has been monkeying around with the, the, the super chat algorithm, I guess where you get to the point where you've got like these longtime super chat people who are trying to, you know, super chat you a hundred bucks but they can't, it'll tell, it'll, it'll limit them. It won't allow them to do a hundred dollar super chat but it will allow them to do a twenty dollar super chat. And I'm like is this something new? And I saw I had actually my people in my audience. I said okay, let's you know, throw out a $10 super chat, see if it goes through. Throw out a.

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[Podcast Host]

Go anywhere without it.

[Rollo Tomassi]

$20 super chassis. If it goes through. Okay, throw out a hundred dollar super chat and it won't, it limits it at that point. And I don't know if that's something that's new that's happened with, with YouTube recently. But again it's an effort to get you to quit.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

So they didn't delete your channel, you just stopped. Because they don't want, they don't want to make it worth while to do those things. So now what I see is a lot of people, for instance like we were Just saying before, like Myron and Fresh are doing like four hour podcasts as a sort of a subscription drive. Right? Same thing. Like Pearl did the same thing. They'll do these fairly, fairly long form, you know, live streams in an effort to get people to sign up for subscriptions. Right. Because that's a profit model, it's a revenue model. But the thing is, it's like for a guy like me who's already an author, I can make more money with a, with my substack than I can with my YouTube. Because if I'm charging 9.99amonth for my sub stack and I'm getting 9.99amonth for my YouTube and all I have to do is like two or three blog posts, you know, do some writing, which is going to end up in my books that I can, you know, repurpose for other, other things as well. Well, I'm going to spend more time on substack than I will on YouTube.

[Podcast Host]

100.

[Rollo Tomassi]

YouTube is just outreach. I just do it because it's a labor of love. And I don't, you know, if you give me $5, you give me a hundred dollars, I don't care. I'm gonna still do YouTube just because it's. Maybe I'm just vain that way.

[Podcast Host]

It's fun, right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

But it's fun and, and it's, it's outreach and it's good, it's good to get input from other people. Right? But as far as a revenue model and like staying in business, it's like substack is a better option than YouTube. Is it for someone like me anyways?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

For authors anyway.

[Podcast Host]

For a writer.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

There's not people that hire.

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was gonna say there's another iron in the fire that I have. I've got substack that I'm working on quite a bit. And then, you know, we've got Access Vegas. Again, not. I, I lose money on Access Vegas. I just do it because I, I enjoy it enough. And it's outreach. You know, people know us and there's perks to it as well, obviously. I mean, we got the girls. When we go out to doing things like Babes in Toyland and charity events and things like that too. So it, you know, it keeps you in the limelight, but other than that, it's, it's, it's money out, it's not money in. And I think we've sort of gone past the days of like 2021, 2022, when it was like sort of the golden era I think of doing live streams and everything and now we're kind of resorting to, you know, trying to do membership drives and trying to keep, you know, trying to try new things and figure, figure new stuff out. And we will, yeah, there'll be some, there'll be something else. Maybe it'll be AI, maybe something else. We'll figure something else.

[Podcast Host]

With social media you always got to be adapting. Stuff changes so frequently, you know.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah. Somewhere along the lines, you know, something new will come, will come along and it's like the early adopters will, will figure it out 100% back in the day.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

You just have to be, you have to be agile, you have to be mobile and maneuverable and that's, that's really what it takes.

[Podcast Host]

And these days everyone seems to be clip forming, right. They're going for these crazy clips. Do you think that's pretty toxic overall?

[Rollo Tomassi]

I, I, I think that it lessens our, our attention span for sure. I was just talking out there about the, you know, I write books, right. I'm working on a six book right now. You've got to have that in a digital format. You've got to have it in a hard format. You got to have Audible. So you got all those things, which is great because they're all revenue streams. But nobody reads like, like who reads now? Right. We listen to our books for sure.

[Podcast Host]

I only use Audible. I don't read books.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well, I have a, I mean my first book came out in 2013. So you've had 12 years to read my book. So if, if, if you don't know what you're talking about or like I know what I wrote in my book. So when I have people like assume that I said something that I didn't or I assume I believe in something that I don't, I'm like, well, did you read the book? Well, no. Like, well, you've had 12 years to read it, so you've got no excuse. Come back and we can have a conversation once you know what you're talking about. But the reason why I get those accusations in the first place is because of the 45 second clip, right? So if I go and I say something, if I'm in a three hour live stream on my show or I'm on Access Vegas or something and we pull a 45 second clip to put on, you know, reels or we put it on a, you know, shorts or whatever like that. People don't know that, you know, I'm an internationally bestselling author of five different Books. Right. So they don't know that. They just think you're just some schmuck on, on the Internet.

[Podcast Host]

Red pill.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, so. Oh, it's one of those red pill guys, right? Get him. But, but so, and they hear this clip and they, they, they take that and then they just extrapolate from that and they presume like you're, you mean something that you never intended because it's, and you're doing like I'm doing it because it's driving traffic. Right. It's a marketing thing. You have to do that. And the more salacious it is and the more outrageous it is and the more people are going to put their eyes on it.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well, the problem with that is then people presume you mean something that you did because they didn't see the, the hour that you built up to that one, you know, that one clip. And so it's, it's kind of a double edged sword for us. You know, you need it. But it also is like the source of a lot of just sort of like headaches all the time. But yeah, as far as like, I mean they, they say, you know, the Internet doesn't forget, but it has a very short attention span.

[Podcast Host]

Oh yeah, don't forget the next day.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, but you know, like I have been doing this, what I've been doing for 22 plus years. And so people just presume I'm just some sort of podcast or I'm just sort of like some, some influence or something like that. It's like, no, I've been doing this quite some time and if you want to have a conversation about it, I'm more than happy to. But I think the, the problem is, the main problem for like clips and the 45 second, you know, attention span generation is that if you give them data and if you give them stats and you give them facts and you don't tell people how to feel about those things, they will hate you for it. They will presume that you're telling them because if they agree with you, they'll be like, oh yes, this is great. And they'll love you for it because it aligns with whatever it is that they happen to think. And so they'll take it and they'll, they'll run with it. But if it doesn't align with what their sort of belief set is, then they will presume that you mean the worst. They will presume that if you, like I said, if you don't tell them how to feel about that, that particular fact, then they're going to infer that you're telling them because you believe something that doesn't align with what their identity is sort of aligned with.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And so that's, I think, is one of the bigger problems, especially with like my kind of content or you know, red pill slash manosphere content right now is it's real easy to shit on the, on the red pill right now because it's a, it's almost a revenue model at this point is to strawman what people have said in a 45 second clip and then make that the entirety of, of the whole mess or the whole. They want to call it a mood. I don't wouldn't call it a movement, but the, the entirety of your message. Right. And it's like, no, first of all, you didn't see like the minute and a half, two hours, whatever before that. Bless you. Or you don't, you've never read the book or you have no real, you know, grounded background in any of this stuff. And I'm more than happy to explain it to you, but they don't want to hear that at that point. Not as usually it's just like that, because that's their revenue model. Their revenue model is to, to be stupidly critical, like I mean, absurdly critical of something that you might have said in a 45 second clip and then presume that that's what the whole thing is about, like, oh, you guys must be misogynist. Well, no, you need to read the book or you need to like just get into it a little bit more before you start opining about things. But that's not what, that's not how you make money. Yeah, you, you know that there's going to be people that are going to have your back. You know that there's going to be people go, oh yeah, all those guys, they say all the same things all the time and blah, blah, blah. No, no, we don't.

[Podcast Host]

Do you feel like the red pill movement has been a net positive for the dating market from then?

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think so, yes, absolutely. I know a lot of people just here's your clip. Here's your clip right now. No, I, I would say yes, most definitely. It's funny you should say that because I was just gotten into a conversation on Twitter this morning about that and the presumption is that those red pill guys, quote unquote, a registered trademark. Those red pill guys are, are always one way. It's. They, they, they want a straw man. The red, the red pill, those red pill guys. Right. And usually that Straw man looks like some basement dwelling incel that is just complaining about the the sexual marketplace and is and is living his mom's basement. And you know all of the standard tropes.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And you know people will get behind him.

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[Rollo Tomassi]

Say, yeah, you're right. But quite honestly, the guys that I know and the people who actually take the time to understand the material and, and understand that the red pill is not an ideology, it's not a philosophy, it's not a religion, it's not a movement, it's a praxeology. All it is is just information. All it is is facts without feelings. Right? And what happens is those guys take that information and they better their lives with it. And so for every guy that's out there that's really super critical of it, I can probably point to another 100 or 200 guys who the red pill per se or my work or anybody else's work has, has substantially bettered their lives as a result. But these guys want to paint someone such as myself as like, oh, they'll never have healthy relationships, they're never going to be married. They're not psychological. I've been married for 29 years. I have a 27 year old daughter who is also married. I wrote a rational mail. Okay, so what else do you got? You know, and so they, they create these, like I said strawman or these, these characters that are caricatures. Maybe that's a better word of the, the stereotypical Image of the red pill guy who is just this bitter complainer and is a misogynist and is just like, like I said, it's a cartoon and will never get married. Is not married. And they presume these guys say certain things and they really don't. But then the best part of it is, is I've, I've had guys who will, will try to straw man me and then I've gotten to the point where sometimes I'm just like so fed up. I don't even want to bother responding to this. But I feel good when I have a lot of guys get into who will respond to it or they get into that stream or that thread and they'll say, well the ripple really saved my life. I was actually planning to off myself. If I had not gotten into this, I probably would have done so or my kids have a father now because of Rolo's work. So you know, I know that it's a net positive and I have to remember like whenever. And this is, this is me, maybe other people as well. But when you see like hate comments on, on Twitter or on YouTube or whatever else, you have to remember like if I, if I do a video that has a hundred thousand views, right. And it has let's say 500 comments and of those 500 comments, maybe 50 of them are hate comments.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And then of those, how many of those guys are like really dead ass serious about that, you know? So if you whittle it down to the who are like your worst haters, you're still going to focus on those 100 on those ones. But the fact is you had 50,000 people who watched your, who at the very least they clicked on it and watched it for 30 seconds.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Rollo Tomassi]

So of the people who were viewing, of the people who, who viewed and then decided to comment and of the people who viewed decided to comment and then decided to comment something negative, what percentage of those are of, of the total views are. Is that it's, it's, it's, it's fractional, it's small minute. But those are the ones you're gonna focus.

[Podcast Host]

But a lot of hate is projection also. It's not even you that they're hating.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It's something about themselves.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, well, they, they, they see you doing something or they see you saying something and, and I get it, it. Sometimes it's, it's, it holds up a mirror that's really hard to look into and other times it's just people. I, it amazes me the, the, the extent that Some people will go to, they'll take time out of their day to, to actually research and say your name's not really Rolo Tomasi. And it's like, oh, you got me. Time for me to quit.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, I guess I'm done now.

[Podcast Host]

You know, they tried hitting Myron with that one too.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, well, that's what's funny to me is like, do you think Fresh is his real name? You know, do you think like, Donovan Sharp? Donovan Sharp's not his, that's not his real name. Even Ryan Stone, a lot of the other guys.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I get it. From a safety point of view, you're talking about controversial stuff.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Gene Simmons, not his real name. Paul Stanley, not his real name.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Why would you want people use, use pseudonyms? Okay. What's the big deal?

[Podcast Host]

In a space like this, I don't blame you. You want some privacy, right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think there's. But see, what that is, is like when people do that, it's, it's. They want to, they want you to think you should be questioning your legitimacy. You're an imposter. What do you mean? Well, you use, you use a pseudonym. You know, when you're, when you're, do you think that there aren't people who are writing like best selling novels right now who have, like, they're using the real name Danielle Steele. That's not her real name.

[Podcast Host]

You know, let me ask the opposite question. Do you think the feminist movement was net positive for the female dating market?

[Rollo Tomassi]

No, I've. I mean, the feminism has always been the same thing that it's been since 1848. Right. Since Seneca Falls. It's just been a supremacism movement. Some people say it's a hate movement. I, I'm more of a sense that it's a supremacism movement. You got to remember that like, say since like 1850 until 1920. That's when 1920 was, when the 19th amendment was ratified. Okay, so you're looking at about 70 years. And that's when people kept saying it was the suffragette movement and all that good stuff. You have to remember that back in those times, if you do any of the homework here, the, the feminists who were part of the suffragette movement right then were, were considered terrorists. I mean, they were responsible for bombing police precincts. They were responsible for assassination attempts. If you, what's, what's the day? A Katie something or other. I can't remember her name. If you read, read some of the writings of the early suffragettes and feminists is very racist, is very supremacist. And so it was understandable that it didn't even gain any kind of legitimacy until, you know, post World War I. So I've always looked at the feminist movement as a. A constant movement. There's no. There's no waves of feminism. And I. I think it's a misnomer to characterize it that way. It has always been the same thing since, well, I would say 18, 48, 49, something like that, I think is when Seneca Falls happen.

[Podcast Host]

I didn't know it went that far back.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, you should look up the Seneca Falls convention. It's really. There's only 300 people that went to. It was really the beginning of the suffragette movement. And it was. It took place not only in the United States, but also in the UK and parts of Western Europe as well. And then it didn't really even gain any kind of popularity until the mid-1910, like, right around just after World War I. And. But the reason why I say there's no such thing as waves of feminism is because it was just the same movement. It was just interrupted by wars and civil unrest and the Bolsheviks and, you know, anything that was, like, sort of historically significant that was sort of, you know, take people's attention away from it. And quite honestly, I don't think that the feminist movement would have had any traction had it not been for hormonal birth control. And then the sexual revolution that happened in its wake. That was the best thing that ever happened to feminists was. Was the pill.

[Podcast Host]

Right? The birth control pill.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Really? Yeah. Because what did it do? It. It put the. It put the reproductive process of all humanity in the hands of one sex. It still does to this day. Right. Well, we can think about. We. We can. How many landers have we placed on Mars so far? And we can't figure out a male birth control. We figured that out in the 1965. Ish or 60s, whatever for. For the. For hormonal birth control for women. Now people will always check me on this and say, well, we've got Vasagel or we've got this something else that's just waiting in the wings soon. I'm like, well, how come we haven't had it since? You know, if we do, then how come we can. Like I said, we can get 4k streaming video from the surface of Mars, but we can't figure out right now how to. How to give a pill to the guy.

[Podcast Host]

We need a vasectomy right now.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah. Oh, God, don't get me started.

[Podcast Host]

Jesus. My dad got one of those after the third.

[Rollo Tomassi]

I still hear about that tweet, by the way. Which one? I was talking about get a. I, I had a, A viral, it probably still is viral. I had a viral tweet about two years ago now, but I, I was actually not, it was actually a response. It wasn't, it was a, A reply.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you ratioed someone.

[Rollo Tomassi]

No, not even really doing that. I was just, I think I was responding to Dr. Richard Reeves and I, I had just, I'll tell you the history of this. I had just watched on Fresh and Fit. Brandon Carter. Yeah, and Brandon Carter's funny as hell. He should be a stand up comedian like that guy missed his calling, quite honestly. But Brandon was on there and he was talking about, he was talking about how everything in his life that he can farm out, like the responsibilities in his life that he could farm out, he does. Right? So because anything that is a distraction from him making money from him, like doing content or doing whatever it is he does, he'll farm it out so he doesn't imagine.

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[Rollo Tomassi]

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[Rollo Tomassi]

He doesn't do any shopping. He has people shop for him. If he needs groceries, somebody goes and does that for him. His, his wardrobe or his cleaning. His laundry. So has a laundry or has. You have a cleaning lady doesn't have a car. Of course he lives in Miami. You don't really need a car in Miami, but doesn't have a car. Just Ubers wherever he needs to go. And so essentially every aspect of his life that would in any way take an hour away from what he is doing. As a content creator, as Brandon Carter, the brand that is Brandon Carter. He farms that out. And I thought about this and I go, if you take that to its logical extreme, it's really about what you sacrifice. Like, what are you willing to sacrifice. And so that's really what that tweet was about. And that's why I should say that's what inspired that tweet. And so the tweet was something like this. I said, the quickest way to become the quickest. I didn't say the best. I said the quickest way to becoming a high value man is to forget about family, forget about marriage, get a vasectomy in your 20s, get a, you know, never ease up on your focus, Always get to the gym. There was other aspects of it too. Everybody focuses on the third one. That's all they wanted. Oh, Rolo's talking about self sterilization. I'm like, and ironically enough, a year later, that's when Fresh got the, the baby trap thing going on. That's not so funny now, huh? You know, not so funny now, huh? That. Which was exactly why I said that. Because it's a, I mean, if there was a reversible way to, to do that, I would say, go ahead.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Right. If there's a male birth control, I would say use that instead. But that's not what's available right now. So that's why. But I was being sort of facetious about the whole thing because I, when I was listening to Brandon Carter, I'm like, I've been do. I'm fairly successful in this niche. I mean, I'm the godfather of the red pill, right. I wrote the rational mail. And then I realized after I had listen to that episode that I've been playing the game on hard mode for a long time because I'm married, I've got two dogs, I have a daughter who I have a mother in law. I've got a lot of other people that are like financially dependent on me. And not just financial dependency, but also emotional. And you have all of these things that you invest yourself in, in your life and everything, and each one of those things is demanding your attention. That's taking you away from writing the next book, that's taking you away from doing the next podcast. It's taking you away from doing all the things Brandon Carter was talking. He was just farming out in his life. And I'm like, I'm pretty successful at what I do, given that I've been playing on Hard mode for a long time. Right. And so that was really what the inspiration was behind that. Tweet. But of course, everybody takes the. The vasectomy part of it just complete. Weren't you the guy that said three years ago that you have vasectomy. Vasectomy, right. And they think I want to have, like, you know, gender reassignment, you know, surgeries. Like, you guys have, like, you're playing the telephone game when you're a kid. Like, that never worked out. Like, it's like, vasectomy. And then the kid that's like the 10th one says, Rolo said that we should all be sterilized. And, like, you know, and he's for gender reassignment. And. And this. I'm like, how the hell did you get.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that was a fun game. I'd be at little. Has some people up on purpose.

[Rollo Tomassi]

You know, what's funny is that's how I think a lot of people, like, get portrayed online right now, is it's one big telephone game.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, 100.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Everything online. Every. Every time they go on Twitter, Twitter, Instagram, whatever it is, it's. All it is, is they will hear one thing, they'll fixate on one thing, and then it'll get passed around, you know, Reddit. It'll get passed around, you know, Twitter or whatever. And so anytime somebody brings up Rolla Tomasi. Oh, he's the vasectomy guy, isn't he? Like, Jesus Christ.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And there's no way. There's no way you can go back. There's no way you can go back and explain that because they. It's too funny. It's too. It's too easy to just, like, latch onto it and just keep repeating it over and over.

[Podcast Host]

Know. Yeah, yeah. That's the state.

[Rollo Tomassi]

During middle school.

[Podcast Host]

That's the state of social media where. And you say one semi controversial thing, by the end of the week, you're cancelled.

[Rollo Tomassi]

It's. It's the. It's the. The telephone game for, like, mass media.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That's why when I have on guests now, I'm like, usually they're like, not what they're portrayed online, to be honest. Like, Nick Fuentes is coming on this month. I've had Tate on, and it's like, these guys are nowhere close to what's being said about them online. You know what I mean?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah. Well, see, that's the thing that gets me is, like, there's like, I appreciate you for having me on your show and stuff like that, because I. I consider you like a. Like an A lister.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Rollo Tomassi]

But, like, if I go and I look at, like, the guys from, like, trigonometry or if I look at, like, Chris Williamson, I was on Tim Pool last year, so I kind of have a different. I got a different opinion of Tim these days. But, you know, people keep saying, hey, when are you gonna go on. On Chris Williamson? I'm like, never, because I am never getting that call. And I have guys, and God bless them for every time trigonometry has somebody on that sort of, like, wants to talk about the manosphere, wants to talk about the red pill or something like that. I have guys that will instantly jump into that. That chat and they'll go, when are you going to have Rollo on? When are you gonna have Mike Sartaina? When you had. Have Myron on? When are you gonna have these guys on? When you're gonna have them on together? And, you know, and like, I say God bless him for doing that, but it's never going to happen. Yeah. Because they're already convinced that I am the character that other people have made me out to be. And that's why you're never going to see that happen. And I've had this conversation with Mike before, and sometimes it used to bug me, but then as, like I said, Mike's one of my best friends, he's kind of talked me off the edge there. He's like, we just keep doing what we're doing, and we just keep writing books and we just keep doing our stuff and we keep going and we keep forging ahead and we're becoming more and more popular. We're growing. Every year, we grow that much more. He said at some point along the way, it's going to look weird that they haven't had us on. And so, like, for instance, like, when I want. I went on last year with Zubi.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And Zubi is a good friend of mine. I've known Zubi since before he was Zubi and, you know, went out to, like, me and my wife went out and had dinner with him and everything else. And, you know, I know. I know him personally. I know his. What is. He's getting married soon and nice. And so he has me on a show and he puts. He publishes it, makes it live. And everybody's like, well, why did you have this misogynist on your show? I was like, did you watch the show? No, they don't. They just see Rollo Tomasi and in the title.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And they see my face on the thumbnail. And then they decide that they're going. They're not going to watch it. They're Just going to pop off about it because they already have this preconception of what I'm about, which is something I would say is probably similar to what's going on with like, guys from trigonometry, the guys from like, you know, like Chris Williamson. I can name a few others as well. And that's why, you know, like when Mike was saying, you know, just, we just got to forge ahead and just keep going, it's like, he's right, you know, that's. That's all we can do. That's all we're going to do anyways, whether we go on or we don't go on with these guys. But at some, some point along the line, after the, you know, the sixth or seventh time Chris Williamson is interviewing Destiny for to talk about the red pill again, it's like boring you gotta.

[Podcast Host]

Have on both sides.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, it's like, how many boring interviews are you gonna do with Louise Perry before you have me on there? How many boring interviews are you gonna do with. With, with the same people that you had, you know, last year? And, you know, what's it going to take? Is it going to take you losing market share? Is it going to take you losing revenue? Is going to take you losing subs? Is it going to take you losing views? Do you even look at your analytics?

[Podcast Host]

You know, the top shows all cycle the same fifty hundred.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, they, they don't. Yeah, they don't do anything new.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And I think you're right about that. I think there's another component. They're afraid of losing sponsors.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, that might be it.

[Podcast Host]

So from a business point of view, they're like, okay, if I have this Nick Fuentes on or Roller or whoever, I might lose sponsors.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Yeah, well, I'll make this announcement on your show. I didn't think I would do it, but I was invited by Oxford University to be in the Oxford Society debate. It's a possibility. It's going to happen. I don't know that it's 100% confirmed. That's why I haven't really been talking about it on my show or anything like that. But the reason I'm going to say it now is because Myron also got the invite to the, to the same show. So it would be myself, Myron, I think fresh as well. I know Chris Williamson was one of the names mentioned for this. I don't call it a debate, but I guess it would be a discussion.

[Podcast Host]

Whatever it is, who would he be debate?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Like, it would be about. I would presume it's about the state of masculinity. Remember, it's in the UK and this is sort of post like the adolescence docus doc. It's not even docus. I don't want to say documentary because it's not, it's that work of fiction. Since, since then it's been a real popular subject to talk about, you know, misogyny laws and the state of masculinity, the state of men and boys. It's interesting to me that this, the topics and the things that we have been discussing in the manosphere for really two decades right now is starting to finally, you know, become unignorable to like, people who would just simply sweep it under the rug prior to all of this. So if you're looking at like, even like a guy like Richard Reeves, who is part of the Brookings Institute, very left leaning, you know, think tank organization, he, I don't know if he still holds this title, but on when he, when President Biden was in office, he was the, the head or the director or something of the branch or whatever it is, the government branch for men and boys or whatever, whatever it was. And like I said, I don't know if that's necessarily still a thing, but it had gotten to the point where it was unignorable. And Mike and I had him on the show we made. I, I suggested that he be brought on the Dr. Phil show because I liked what he had to say. I think it's interesting that it's gotten to the point where it's become so unignorable that even the left has to talk about these issues right now. Yeah, but what they're doing is then they're taking these points and they're bastardizing them or they're, they're making them about women. It's, it's not a men's problem. It's. It's men's problem and how it affects women. Right. And so I think it's encouraging that Oxford University would reach out to myself and to Myron and, you know, Chris Williamson too. They're great. But just to have this kind of a discussion. But I will, we'll see where it goes. I don't know. You know, they're, they're talking about doing it in July now, so we'll see what happens. I'm, I'm ready to go if they want to go, and I'll be there. And I like, sure. Myron will be too.

[Podcast Host]

I like this new movement of colleges and universities reaching out to content creators like yourself and inviting them on campus to talk to the students. Because a lot of these students have been misguided through public education. Right.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well, Myron was just on what, University of South Carolina, usc.

[Podcast Host]

He went to Penn State, I believe, as well, and debated someone right on one of those.

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think so. I know he would. I know he got some stage time. He got some. Some public time, which is great. I think the problem you're going to run into in those kind of venues is they turn into shouting matches and they turn into. Nothing really substantive gets. Gets thrown out there. So it's. It becomes a team sport at that point. Which is why, like, when I look at a venue like Oxford, there's, you know, that's public discourse. That's going to be on YouTube. That's going to be something where it's going to be. I think the conversation is going to be a bit more substantive. It'll be respectful, too, instead of like, you know, shut up, you. You're not going to say that at all, Charlotte, as much as you'd like to, you're probably not going to be able to say something like that, but you will be able to at least make some, Some. Some cogent points. And I think that's even. I think that when. When you got a. When you've got a guy such as myself or Myron, like, Myron's very. Is super intelligent. And I think some of the best work I've ever done with Myron has been when it's just been him and me on the show. We're just discussing these things and we're just a meeting of the minds and we're just, you know, bouncing ideas of each other. I think that if we're able to do something like that in a forum like Oxford, that is going to really rattle a lot of cages. Because what these. What most popular, you know, public opinion of the red pill is, is that we're just some dumb idiots who picked up on a few ideas of evolutionary psychology and we really don't know what we're talking about. It's like, no, we've been doing. Well, my case, been doing this for, you know, 22, 23 years now. And the conversations that you think are new, we've been talking about since 2009, you know, 2012, things like that, that. And a lot of people think that we. There's. There's aspects of intersectional dynamics that we haven't considered. There's very little that we haven't considered in that time, but people think that all we are is podcasters. They don't think, they don't think of me as an author. They think of me as like Rollo Tomasi, the co host of Access Vegas. And I get it, because we had. That's just what we have to do to stay in the, stay in the public light. But what I think they're more afraid of is that we might actually have a point. We actually might have something to say about this stuff. We actually might have. We might change some people's minds about. We might actually save some people's lives as a result of this. And there. And if we do, then that makes us a bit more legitimate than just being these caricatures, these straw men that they need to knock down all the time to build a brand off of. And as I'm fond of saying is if there is no boogeyman, then nobody gets paid.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Rollo Tomassi]

So if the boogeyman goes up on behind the Podium and Oxford University and he sounds like a Rhodes scholar, then suddenly you have a different opinion of the guy. And the reason I'm sort of harp on that a little bit is because when I had gone on Dr. Phil back in 2021, I think that that's what they were expecting from me. They were expecting me to be some sort of frothing at the mouth, you know, misogynist who couldn't stand the sight of a woman or something like that, rather than a guy who's been happily married for, you know, almost 30 years and has, you know, essentially made a life's work out of, out of the books and the ideas that I put forth and to the point where it's like, I've got, you know, I've got an answer for everything. And they weren't expecting that. And I don't think a lot of other people are expecting that either because they need you to be that cartoon character. Because if you don't, they don't get paid.

[Podcast Host]

Was that an ambush? I didn't watch that episode on. Was it like four people just.

[Rollo Tomassi]

No, I was so it was a. It was, I think it was sort of a build up to ridicule the manosphere. And it didn't work out the way they wanted. And I knew, like kind of going in, I knew that that's how it was going to work. When the producers of the Dr. Phil show originally approached me, they wanted Tate. They wanted Andrew Tate.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah.

[Rollo Tomassi]

And I said, well, I will try to get him if I can, because I had his number, I was talking to him and Andrew wouldn't set foot in the United States. And so I said, then they asked me, said, well, can we get him on Skype or can we get him on Zoom or something like that? He still wouldn't do that.

[Podcast Host]

Wasn't he in prison at the time?

[Rollo Tomassi]

No, no, he wasn't prior to that. So this was like in September, October of 2022. So he didn't get picked up until the 29th of December. And so he wouldn't do it. And I said, all you got is me. So I felt like I was kind of like the understudy for, for Andrew Tate. But I knew going in that that they wanted me as a proxy, they wanted me to, to play the role of Andrew Tate. And I, I said, I mentioned this specifically. I said, I'm not here to be an apologist for Andrew Tate. He is, he does what he does and I do what I do. So if you want to talk to me about this kind of stuff, I'll be happy to give you a background and give you as much of, of the truth as I possibly can. But I'm not here to apologize for him because that's what they, I knew that they were doing that. And the minute I walked into the studio and I sat down in the chair, I knew that that's where they were going with it. And I was prepared for it. But I don't think that they were thinking that I would be prepared for it and that I would get caught flat footed. And it didn't happen for them, fortunately, but it, I think in total, it was a really great opportunity for me and we got two episodes out of it and I think I did very well. The consensus is that I did really well on that. But again, it was this effort to sort of mischaracterize the manosphere. So when I, when I hear people talking about the manosphere today, you know, post adolescence and post. Yeah, you know, well, we've got real men's issues kind of thing. Nothing that I'm hearing right now is, is new. It's the same stuff I was talking about in 2021, the same stuff I've been talking about since 2012. And so it's not, there's nothing novel about it. But the, I think the problem is, is that a lot of people think that the manosphere begins and ends with Andrew Tate and Pearl Davis or Fresh and fit. And it's like, no, that's fresh and fit didn't really get the ball rolling until 2021. I've been doing this since 2004. So. So to, you know, to build up or to talk about, you know, topics and things that are, that people think are novel right now is kind of like, well, you know, you don't have the background in this to really know what you're talking about. But people, it's what I call them confident ignorance. Right. They're very confident in their ignorance. They, they, they know what they're talking about. I know you don't because if you did, you would realize just how old school this stuff is.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's been around. We'll end off with your new docu series, Lonely, Lonely Fans.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Lonely Fans. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Thought about.

[Rollo Tomassi]

So Mike and I did. Mike actually talked me into this too. And I, I wasn't going to do this because I'm always very careful about doing documentaries and talking to quote, unquote, you know, mainstream media and press. But these guys weren't that. It's the, the company that's producing this docu series is called Rebel Media. They are a very professional outfit. They, they do, they' shows and series before they asked Mike and I to do interviews. And originally it was about simping, you know, like, how do we stop simping? We didn't know what the name of the documentary is going to be or anything like that. And so they've kind of remarketed the, the docu series as a expose on OnlyFans and how it has, let's say, undermined intersexual dynamics in, in a very short time. Because you got to remember, like in 2019, the only fans of 2019 is not the only fans of 2025 right now. And you, if you look at the market share and you look at the money and you look at the, the exposure and you look at the user base as well as the content producer base for, for OnlyFans, it is exponentially just skyrocketing. And by the way, it's a privately owned company. It is not a publicly owned company. And so they ended up doing some interviews of some really, some other big names. I would say like Sadia Khan, I don't really consider a big name, but like they did, they had Sadia Khan on there, they had myself, they have Mike Sartain and essentially it's a, I don't, I want to say it's a four or six part series. They're shopping it around right now to like Hulu and, and Netflix and some other things. But the, the series is basically done. They're just doing distribution at this point. The trailer is out and I'll give you the link before so you can attach it to this, this video. But the, the trailer is pretty good. And if the trailer is any indication, I think it's going to be. It's going to be a very impactful docu series. I. Is it going to be, is it going to have the impact of adolescence? I don't know. But I, I'm happy and I'm proud that I actually was included in all of this. And the, the producers and the directors have become pretty good friends of myself and Mike up to this point. And nice to the point where they rented a, an old. I want to say it's, it's either late 60s or early 70s. I want to say let's see a Chevelle or a Camaro or something like that so that my. It's convertible. So that they could interview Mike driving around, I want to say about 215 or I, I 15 over here while they were doing an interview of him and he was talking about only fans. He's talking about sort of the mechanics and the economics of only fans there. But I already have a Camaro, so they interviewed me in my commercial. So I don't know why they wanted to, but it was, it was still kind of fun.

[Podcast Host]

Love it. We'll link it below and we'll link your books and everything as well. Thanks for coming on again.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sure.

[Podcast Host]

Check them out, guys. See you next time.

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I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

[Advertiser 2]

Thank you.