Mike (1:42)

I think that's lame. I think if people are the reason why any of us are successful, somebody's choosing to watch. I think we want to create every opportunity for that human connection, even if it's a, hey, shoot me a DM on Instagram and we'll chat. Even people who may want something figure out if you can do what they want. Most people want a picture. Most people may want some advice. Most people may want some counsel. The more, I think as a public person that is creative and supported by people, the more I can anchor myself, the better. So that's why the live events, really.

Ryan Pineda (2:14)

Yeah, I agree. I do a lot of live events, too. And there's something special about just that in Person touch.

Mike (2:19)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (2:19)

In regards to answering DMs, it's getting harder. I'm getting a lot. I can't really respond to everyone. I try my best, but it's taking literally hours a day now.

Mike (2:26)

Yeah. If someone meets you in person and you DMs, you, are you more likely to answer the DM if they meet in person?

Ryan Pineda (2:32)

Yes.

Mike (2:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (2:34)

Because then I could put a face to the right.

Mike (2:35)

I just met this person and they reached out. I mean, what do most people want? Like, the ask for you will be, can I come on your podcast?

Ryan Pineda (2:41)

Usually, yeah.

Mike (2:42)

Could easily just be like, hey, not right now. No. Hey, do this and this. Right. So I think once you get to the bottom of what people want and then that. That connection. For me, the feedback is invaluable to see what people are engaging with, what they like, what they don't like. Right. Like the. The sample sizes. So. Because it's better than comment section and. And stuff.

Ryan Pineda (2:59)

Agreed. What's the biggest want people want from you when they approach you or message you?

Mike (3:02)

I think usually some sort of advice on being a creative and how to navigate this entire world. Usually it's something around that sometimes people will get, like, really into their personal stories. And I'm like, dude, this is way above my. You need a therapist. I'm not a professional, but I'll often refer people because I have a therapist that's really good, and he tends to take clients. And so I'll send a lot of people to my therapist and be like, go sit with someone that's. Or go find a local church with a pastor. But that sort of stuff is just beyond me. But if someone's like, hey, I want to do my first YouTube channel. What do I do? I want to pocket. Could you be my first guest on my podcast? And I usually say, no, go do 50.

Ryan Pineda (3:40)

Right.

Mike (3:40)

And then I'll come do your podcast. And then that kind of, you know, separates the wheat from the chaff.

Ryan Pineda (3:46)

Exactly. I Learned that from PBD. He had the same approach, but I think it's 100 episodes. Do 150.

Mike (3:52)

Any of. Any of anything in that ballpark will show someone being serious.

Ryan Pineda (3:56)

Now, there's some crazy stats. If you get to 100 episodes, I believe you're top 1% in podcasting because not a lot of people make it there.

Mike (4:03)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (4:04)

Like, it's actually pretty attainable if you put in the effort, but a lot of people won't get to episode 100. Yeah.

Mike (4:09)

That's unfortunate.

Ryan Pineda (4:10)

It's crazy, right?

Mike (4:11)

Cause once you Find a groove and a system and what you want to talk about and try and get interesting guests, even if it's their remote. I feel like it kind of compounds.

Ryan Pineda (4:18)

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I mean, I definitely almost quit at first, though. Like, my first six months were tough.

Mike (4:23)

Really.

Ryan Pineda (4:23)

I was unprofitable. I was filming on blurry iPhone eights and not getting comments, not getting likes or whatever because it's easy to get lost in the numbers both ways. Now it's the opposite for me. Now I try to remain humble with. With big numbers.

Mike (4:35)

What made you not quit? What was the boost? The. The surge, the. The feedback? This. There's something here. I got to keep going.

Ryan Pineda (4:43)

My back was against the wall. I was all in on it. I didn't have a plan B, so I was definitely part of it. But then I caught a break when Howie Mandel responded my cold email about coming on the podcast, and I went out to his spot in la and I was like, that was my first big guest. I was like, I might be able to do something.

Mike (4:59)

How many subscribers followers were you at that point?

Ryan Pineda (5:01)

It wasn't much. It was probably 10k or something. Okay, maybe.

Mike (5:05)

I mean, I don't know. The relatively decent sized creator. A lot of people don't reach that, you know.

Ryan Pineda (5:09)

Well, yeah, but 10k, you can't really make a living off of these days. And YouTube keeps throttling the payouts. It's getting lower and lower. I don't know if you're experiencing that too.

Mike (5:17)

It ebbs and flows for us, man. We had our best month in March, and then April was catastrophic. And then like May is like, oh my gosh, this is like a really good month for us. And back to normal. June is like. So it just ebbs and flows.

Ryan Pineda (5:30)

Yeah, I've seen my reach across all platforms down recently.

Mike (5:34)

Really?

Ryan Pineda (5:34)

A lot of people are experiencing this. I'm not sure if you are, but my views are down. But I try not to get too caught up in stuff like that.

Mike (5:41)

Yeah, you just got to keep creating, making good stuff.

Ryan Pineda (5:43)

What's the biggest focus? Like, what are you trying to focus on? Creation wise this year?

Mike (5:49)

Creation wise is figuring out creative ways to integrate the book into the YouTube stuff. Because people may know me for podcasting, they may know me for reaction videos. Trying to integrate the book into all of that to point people to something more. Because I think what I do probably degree to what you do is a component of kind of keep you company content. Right. Depending on your guest. So people are listening and they're like, oh, this is cool. Like I could throw something in the background. This is dope. But when you're trying to give someone a framework on how to do some of the things they want to do, but maybe they don't know they want to do it, or maybe they don't know how to ask. That requires a bit of a creative strategy to say, let me, let me put the medicine in the candy.

Ryan Pineda (6:28)

Yeah, yeah, let's dive into the book. You got a book coming out. A lot of people say that's one of the most difficult things they've ever done was write a book. So what was that process like for you, man?

Mike (6:35)

It was amazing because the editor found me from Penguin Random House. Waterbrook is the imprint. He was local. He's about an hour from me. He reached out Cold dm. His name is Will Anderson. Shout out to Will. Cold DM reached out to me. We were goofing around with trying to podcast a book, like tell stories in a podcast and then transcribe it. And it was like a complete dumpster fire.

Ryan Pineda (6:58)

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Mike (7:29)

And so we like have a meeting with him and a lot of it was just kind of like, what do I want to talk about? What are the thing. I kind of want to be like, if I could anchor everything in one thing, what do I want to be known for? And then Will, oddly enough was like, hey, you know you can, we can go this direction, but it'll probably be better for you to go get an agent, go find an agent, then create a proposal, then let's circle back. And so we got an agent. The agent was Esther from the Fed. She's amazing. She represents a lot of like the big higher profile Christian people. So everyone from I don't know, dude, perfect to Tim Tebow, nice, right? Like those are her clients. And she was awesome. And then we kind of created like a little bit of a bidding war between a couple publishers and then went full circle and came right back to Will. Who was the one that encouraged me to do the book. The writing of it was a combination of me literally sitting down and writing parts of it, me ideating parts of it. And then towards the end, Will would send me voice note prompts and I would send him voice notes back. And then he would kind of take my, hey, tell me a story about X, Y and Z. And then I'd send him a voice note back. And then he would take it and massage it into the content of the book. I love it. It was a fun process. It was. I don't. You know, some people get ghostwriters, some people get those, like pastors will take, like their sermon series and then have that converted into a book.

Ryan Pineda (8:47)

Right.

Mike (8:47)

I enjoyed the process of creating. I'd just go to my local library. My library would have these little rooms that were quiet. I'd go into one of those rooms and just lock in and pump out a bunch of stuff.

Ryan Pineda (8:57)

I love it, man. A good book is life changing.

Mike (8:58)

I think so.

Ryan Pineda (8:59)

You know, it lives beyond us. It's really interesting to me. I definitely want to write one one day.

Mike (9:03)

You should.

Ryan Pineda (9:03)

Yeah. I feel like it can really impact people. I mean, books changed my life.

Mike (9:07)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (9:07)

You know?

Mike (9:08)

Yeah. I think of the books that had like an impact on me. Like, I think of, like, reading Power of Habit, you know, That's a good one. Fifteen years ago, and I had like a profound impact on me. Read Disciplines of Grace. Had a profound impact on me. Purpose driven life. Big impact on me. So there was books that definitely changed my life. And I'm like, man, if I can synthesize these ideas within the modern framework of what people are experiencing now, anchor it in Jesus, I think it'll. It'll move the needle for some people.

Ryan Pineda (9:31)

And of course, the Bible, Right?

Mike (9:32)

That's right.

Ryan Pineda (9:32)

Can't leave that one out.

Mike (9:33)

That's right.

Ryan Pineda (9:33)

And you always have it with you. Always got it with me. That's cool, man. So were you reading on the plane on the way here?

Mike (9:37)

Yeah, I try to every day. Generally speaking, I'm not perfect at this. I try to go scripture before screen. And so at the very least, I try to get into a proverb for the day. So jump into a proverb and then find something in the New Testament. And then I'm an analog guy. But my friends at Logos Bible software is amazing because the Logos, you can like click a word, go back to the original Hebrew or Greek, then see everywhere else that word is used, and look at a commentary inside the app and it's. There's nothing like it. So I kind of like start in the physical, go there and then I have this little channel on my Instagram where I'll put like a little daily devotional type thing. And again, I'm not, I'm not. I don't do it every day, but almost every day.

Ryan Pineda (10:14)

Nice. It is on my bucket list to read it. You should cover to cover one of these days.

Mike (10:17)

You'll love it.

Ryan Pineda (10:18)

You'll love it.

Mike (10:19)

I think there's a plan that I'll get it for you. So there's a year in the Bible plan. It's about three and a half chapters, which is a bit much when you get into like the more dense parts like Leviticus and stuff. But there's another plan that I think I'm going to start where it's two chapters a day and you get through the entire Bible in two years. You read the entire New Testament twice. So that's a more of a. Like almost anybody can sit down and do that.

Ryan Pineda (10:44)

Yeah.

Mike (10:44)

But I got to get the name of the plan. I just had David Platt on, who talks about that? And so that's a very attainable thing. You know, anyone could read a chapter a day, two chapters a day. It might be a strap, but you're talking about 10 minutes reading.

Ryan Pineda (10:54)

That's not bad.

Mike (10:55)

That's not bad at all. And you read through the whole, the whole thing in two years. You read the New Testament twice.

Ryan Pineda (11:01)

Have you read any other religious texts or just the Bible?

Mike (11:03)

Yeah, I've sat with the Quran, I've sat with the Book of Mormon, I've sat with Jehovah's Witnesses, have this thing called the reasoning for Scriptures. Quite a few different things. Oh wow. I went through a.

Ryan Pineda (11:13)

You're pretty open minded.

Mike (11:14)

I was initially because I started as an atheist, kind of became a deist, became a theist and then it was like, well, these people are all making truth claims. I probably should kind of understand what they believe.

Ryan Pineda (11:26)

Yeah, yeah. I know you react to a lot of the viral debates too. Those get a lot of views, right? The Christian debates.

Mike (11:32)

Yeah, some of them, some of them are dumpster fires. I think having debates as a Christian and you're not behaving like a Christian is a really bad look. So I think the guys that do it really well, I, I champion. So like Glenn Scrivener is one of my favorites, obviously. West Huff, great, great debater. Dr. Sean McDowell. I think that's a really good example.

Ryan Pineda (11:52)

Yeah.

Mike (11:52)

So I think there are people that do it really well and then I Think that there's. There's a spin off of the debate bro culture within Christianity and they don't always carry themselves the most responsibly and kindly, and some of that stuff could be harmful.

Ryan Pineda (12:06)

What do you think of Alex oconnors debates with Christians and other religions?

Mike (12:09)

So I had Alex OConnor at my first event. Let's go. Oh, yeah, we had him debate. Did Jesus claim to be God against David Wood? David Wood is a pretty big apologetics. He does a lot of stuff engaging with Islam. And yeah, Alex o' Connor was there. Great guy. Super fun to hang out with. I like Alex a lot. It was his birthday. Came and hung out on his birthday. Dude. Yeah, yeah. So we sang a Happy Birthday end of the debate. It was very. It was very cool. So Alex a good dude. Really fun in person. The debate with David Wood, I think he had one really good rebuttal round, but he was arguing, in my opinion, an incoherent position. Like, you read Old and New Testament and there's clearly God the Father and there's another seeming person on earth representing God on the Old Testament. And then the New Testament is kind of revealed that that is Jesus.

Ryan Pineda (12:58)

Right, Interesting.

Mike (12:59)

So one God, one essence, but two reflections of it. And then the Holy Spirit is what, you know, is what comes when the church is planted. So I think it was a bad debate problem. Personally. I think he picked it and I don't think he did a good job. And so what ended up happening was he had one really good rebuttal round. I think David had a way better argument. But then at the end, people lined up from the audience and that's when he kind of ends up taking an L Is God logic. Who's actually from here? You should have God logic on. He does a lot of debates in the Muslim world. He's fire. Yeah. Avery Godlogic. Avery gets up and asks him one question about Hebrews, mentioning Jesus as Yahweh and clearly framing Jesus as God, God ontologically. And Alex like concedes in the Q A that really. Oh, I guess I. Yeah, that's a good point. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (13:44)

I've never seen him do that.

Mike (13:45)

Okay, I'll send you the debate. You'll like it. You'll like it. It's long, it's dense. But, you know, with debates like Alex's, people think he won, Christians think David won.

Ryan Pineda (13:52)

Like there's always going to be that. Unless it's a decisive victory. Yes. You know, like the West Huff, Billy Carson one.

Mike (13:58)

Yes, man. Yeah. Yeah, that Was. That was a. I think Billy played himself by walking out. I think Billy could have sat there and just kept pontificating, and he wouldn't have looked as bad.

Ryan Pineda (14:07)

I feel like he just made it worse afterwards. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Mike (14:11)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (14:11)

Like, obviously, he lost the debate, but just how he acted after.

Mike (14:15)

It's bad. It's bad. And there's a lot of stuff brewing, even behind the scenes.

Ryan Pineda (14:19)

Well, I don't know if you were aware of the divorce, but, yeah, it just had a major fallout. Like, it kind of ruined.

Mike (14:24)

Yeah. I didn't want to speak on his divorce and personal life, but, yes, that. That. That's some pretty. Pretty crazy, messy stuff. That's public now.

Ryan Pineda (14:30)

Oh, yeah. They made statement last week. I'm friends with both of them, with Elizabeth and Billy, so I just sucked to see that, man. Yeah. I can't believe a debate led to that affecting your. Your marriage like that.

Mike (14:41)

And she, from my understanding, she's kind of coming to Faith.

Ryan Pineda (14:45)

Is she? I didn't know.

Mike (14:46)

Okay, so maybe I haven't looked into. Maybe that part's not public.

Ryan Pineda (14:48)

I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, and not sort of what happened, what transpired. Yeah, she's probably looking for answers.

Mike (14:53)

Yeah, Yeah, I. I heard about it, and I heard that she was going for it. That's all I know. But, yeah, it's one of those, like.

Ryan Pineda (14:59)

I. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.

Mike (15:06)

I don't want that for Billy, man. I don't want families torn apart. I don't want households separated and divided. I really think Billy could have been like, hey, okay, you know what, guys? I got some of this stuff wrong. However, I still believe in the Akanaki, or whatever they're called, and Naki and again, the tablets, and just kept doing his thing in that world, but without trying to present himself as an authority on this world. And I think that's where he played himself. And that's a learning lesson for creators in general. Like, know your wheelhouse and know what you're an expert in and know what you are not an expert in.

Ryan Pineda (15:39)

That was a big lesson for me. It taught me, like, yeah, don't speak if you're not an expert, basically, because.

Mike (15:44)

That's right. So I would, like. I would never debate someone on Mormonism because I'm not an expert in Mormonism. And I actually got a buddy that might debate at our next event. Jacob, I met. He came to our last event, named Jacob. Brilliant Mormon guy, brilliant debater. Like, really good debate. Why would I debate him on his thing?

Ryan Pineda (16:00)

Right?

Mike (16:00)

That's stupid. I positioned myself instantly in a place at a disadvantage. So like, I just, I wouldn't. Now, I may have opinions on stuff, but I would never position myself as an authority on someone else's thing unless I spent decades and years.

Ryan Pineda (16:14)

Right.

Mike (16:14)

Or I have. I have some sort of like photographic memory and I'm a savant or something.

Ryan Pineda (16:18)

You know, I love how you're incorporating debates in your in person events. Yeah, I haven't really seen anyone do that.

Mike (16:23)

It's fun, man. And here's the deal. Debate culture online. Again, I'm not the biggest fan. I do think it leads to good things, but there's something about, hey, come in a day early, let's everybody get together, let's go to dinner, let's get to know each other, let's humanize each other and then let's have a charitable formal debate, right? And we'll have some open dialogue and some, you know, some fireworks with spark and live Q and A where the audience can ask you questions. It's a great format, but I think, in my opinion, I want it to be classy. I want it to be good faith. I want it to be we believe the best about each other, even though we strongly disagree. And that's what we saw with David Wood and Alex. We're going to continue trying to do that.

Ryan Pineda (17:01)

That's sort of my goal with moderating debates this year. I don't want any personal attacks. I don't like that stuff. I think keep it civil. Don't interrupt each other as much as possible, you know, because there is that culture of debates online, like on Piers Morgan, where it's just a screaming match.

Mike (17:14)

I think there's. I. When I won't do anything virtual at all unless I really know both people and I think they can be contained. But two, I think just a meal together before sets the tone. So different.

Ryan Pineda (17:24)

That's great advice. Start doing that.

Mike (17:25)

Yeah, dude. Like, even if you just like pull up with some Chipotle and you guys just kick it in the green, we got a really cool green room here, by the way. And just have like, just, just some food and just chat. Get to know each other. I think that lowers the temperature.

Ryan Pineda (17:34)

Yeah. Are you yourself partaking in these debates?

Mike (17:37)

I don't have a desire only because if I'm going to debate, I want to honor my opponent.

Ryan Pineda (17:43)

Yeah.

Mike (17:43)

And the way you honor your opponent is by preparing for A debate. I'll debate things. Like, I'll debate the concepts in my book. Like, I'll debate, you know, godly ambition or stewardship or financial literacy, like, things that I'm, like, immersed into or things that are the overflow of my life. Those things I will debate in those. But, like, getting technical on something very myopic. Like, I'm not. I'm not that guy. I will have, like, tense conversations. But that's because I know some people I could push, like, voice a reason. Good friend of mine, you're about to have him on. When I had him on. Yeah, we had, like, a pretty fiery back and forth.

Ryan Pineda (18:20)

Oh, really?

Mike (18:20)

Yeah. But that's not a debate. Like, that's my. That's my dog. Like, that's my. That's my guy. And he's a way better debater on me. So, like, if you're talking church history and all this, you know, he's a Catholic, I'm a Protestant. I mean, he'll cook me, right? But that, like, there's relational equity there. And so we could do that. I just had Jay Dyer on, who's a big. In the Eastern Orthodox space. We had some good back and forth and. And all that sort of stuff. And then, you know, he'll. He'll get into, like, well, that's a fallacy. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not making state absolute statements. I'm just processing why I disagree with this point that you made.

Ryan Pineda (18:49)

Right? Yeah.

Mike (18:50)

And so when someone lives in that world, I'll have a good, heartfelt conversation with them. But not a. Not a. We're going to just debate the entire four hours. So I had Jay Dyer on. We debate. We kind of went back and forth like an hour. And Jay Dyer is pretty good at debating. He's kind of a part of, like, the elite level of debaters. I would say. He lives in that world. He. I think he has a master's in philosophy. There's no way I'm going to get J debate.

Ryan Pineda (19:14)

You know what I mean?

Mike (19:14)

But I could at least provide clarity on why we disagree and then let the audience come to their conclusions.

Ryan Pineda (19:21)

Makes sense. What do you think of the Bryce Crawford vs Adam 22 episode? Did you watch that one?

Mike (19:25)

I did, I did. I thought it was really cool that Adam22 came back after Bryce's team fumbled the footage. Yeah, that was super dope, because he didn't have to do that. And Adam, despite all the cuckery and all the craziness, has always been a Stand up, dude. He's always pretty. Pretty straightforward in my interactions and seemingly in almost anyone I interact with in that world. So it's interesting to see someone that is so unpopular in the online sphere, but, like, keep it so genuine in person. And I don't know what to do with that, you know? But, yeah, so I did. I thought Bryce did a good job. I think Bryce is, man. Have you had Bryce on yet?

Ryan Pineda (20:04)

Yes.

Mike (20:04)

Yeah, he's. He's dope, dude.

Ryan Pineda (20:06)

For his age. I was impressed.

Mike (20:09)

Yeah, he's a. He's a good kid, man. And he's really in, like, boots on the ground doing ministry.

Ryan Pineda (20:14)

Yeah.

Mike (20:14)

You know, and I. And I love that. So, yeah, I thought it was a good episode. I think. I think Adam is at a crossroads where he knows that the lifestyle him and his wife lead does not lead to flourishing.

Ryan Pineda (20:29)

You think he knows that?

Mike (20:29)

I think he knows that because if it did, then he wouldn't be okay with his daughter doing it.

Ryan Pineda (20:34)

So he just announced yesterday, I'm not sure if you saw this, that there will be another scene with Jason Love and his wife. They're working on it. So when I see stuff like that, it makes me wonder, like, is he just doing this for attention, for money? Like, what's the goal here?

Mike (20:45)

Probably all the above. I think he loves attention. I think he loves money. I think he loves being infamous because he's went from being famous to now he's infamous. I think he enjoys being the villain. It's the wwe, you know, he's in.

Ryan Pineda (20:56)

The Jack Doherty level, where it's, like, mainly hate now, but it's still attention, which is a dangerous spot to be in.

Mike (21:02)

It is. I keep telling him, man, like, that the Adam 22 Christian arc would be like, that would. I mean, imagine, like, you turn it all around and he, you know, cleans his life up and starts going to church.

Ryan Pineda (21:12)

And, like, there's this one girl on that arc right now, Nala. I don't know. Yeah, Seen that one. Yeah. Total 180.

Mike (21:17)

Yeah. I think, you know, people, some Christians, really dragged her and really went after her.

Ryan Pineda (21:23)

And I'm like, she's still getting attacked right now.

Mike (21:25)

Yeah. And I'm like, why would you guys not want her to? I think people were like, you need to give all the money back. And it's like, well, I'm no financial expert. I don't think of people make as much as people think they make.

Ryan Pineda (21:36)

Most of them don't.

Mike (21:37)

Yeah. Yeah. Most of them are like Patreon YouTubers. Like, there's very few. Which is a, what a, what a weird thing to do and then fail at.

Ryan Pineda (21:47)

Yeah, it is. It's got to be embarrassing. Right?

Mike (21:49)

Right. You put yourself out there and it just doesn't work and you don't ever make more than a couple hundred bucks a month. Like that's a, that's pretty bad.

Ryan Pineda (21:56)

Yeah. Must be rough. I don't know. I like Adam. I think he's a stand up guy, though.

Mike (22:01)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (22:01)

You know, at least he's straight up. At least he owns it.

Mike (22:04)

Yeah, yeah. But I think, listen, I don't think anyone's beyond redemption. And by redemption, that word redemption in the scriptures means when Jesus redeems us, he buys us back. So like something is lost and he's buying it back. Like there's a cost. I don't think anyone's beyond redemption. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (22:19)

Because we can name some extreme examples. But you still believe that they can redeem themselves.

Mike (22:23)

That doesn't mean there's not without consequences.

Ryan Pineda (22:25)

Goddess, that's, that's important.

Mike (22:26)

Yeah. So. So, So I mean, a murderer is redeemable, but he will still have to go and deal with the consequences of said action.

Ryan Pineda (22:35)

What would those consequences look like in your eyes?

Mike (22:37)

I mean, in our society, it's life in prison or death.

Ryan Pineda (22:40)

Right.

Mike (22:41)

There's, there's caveats and there's. Sometimes people were in a car and a drive by happened and then somehow 20 years later they get off. I have friends like that, you know.

Ryan Pineda (22:51)

Yeah.

Mike (22:51)

And man, those people come back and they stay. They turn it around.

Ryan Pineda (22:56)

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (22:56)

When someone, when someone. Because in California we had a big thing. I'm not sure if you guys had this here where it was like a good amount of people who had life without the possibility of parole. Something changed in one of the clemency laws or something. And there was a good amount of folks that if they showed that they were reformed and redeemed, they, they got out.

Ryan Pineda (23:12)

Really.

Mike (23:13)

So one of my really good friends got out and he is killing it. He's crushing it.

Ryan Pineda (23:18)

Damn. And he got life and he got out.

Mike (23:20)

I think he, I think he got life. He got life. And he went in, he got. I'm pretty sure he got life. Yeah, I think he. And then he, he was in a drive by situation.

Ryan Pineda (23:29)

Wow.

Mike (23:29)

And he ended up winning this like state version of prison version of an episode of Shark Tank and put together an entire proposal and, and then won it. And then when he got out, had the funds to go start like a cleaning business and now hires people from that life. Wow. And now has Like, I think around a dozen employees and buildings and.

Ryan Pineda (23:50)

That's awesome.

Mike (23:51)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (23:51)

Yeah. There's a lot of examples like that. Right? Johnny Chang, Michael Franzese.

Mike (23:54)

That's right.

Ryan Pineda (23:55)

Guys that were in prison and turned it around.

Mike (23:56)

Yeah. When people hit that rock bottom, I think perspective. Right. Like gratitude. When you know what you. What you lost and then you potentially have a chance to turn around.

Ryan Pineda (24:06)

Yeah.

Mike (24:06)

It's pretty powerful. But again, I would say, I bet you all those guys I know Johnny Chang. I haven't met Michael.

Ryan Pineda (24:11)

Michael Franzese, the mafia guy?

Mike (24:12)

Yeah. I haven't met him in person, but we follow each other on Instagram. I'm sure all those guys would say yes. Not without consequences. There's consequences. Even if they weren't, I gotta go to jail, there's still consequences. Still remnants of our thing, of our problems that we deal with.

Ryan Pineda (24:24)

Yeah. That trauma doesn't leave you. Right. It stays with you subconsciously, maybe.

Mike (24:28)

That's right.

Ryan Pineda (24:28)

Gratitude. I share that with you. That's where we agree. I have a gratitude journal. I think it's important.

Mike (24:32)

That's good. That's good. Yeah. My. So we have, like, a prayer journal. We have a devotional, and we have. I have, like, this leadership thing that I do, and everything that starts with praise reports. So I start with praising God for the good things. And even at home, we do something assisting. Sounds super silly, but something as silly as, like, rose and thorn. Every night when we sit down and have dinner, we do Rosenthorne. What's up, my kids? So what is your rose for the day? What is something you're grateful for? What is something you're happy for? We always open with a rose, and then we go, now, what's your thorn? What's something that didn't go your way?

Ryan Pineda (25:01)

Oh, wow.

Mike (25:02)

And so the more oftentimes, the more we practice the roses, the thorns become inconsequential. Thorns would turn into, like, I didn't get to work out today.

Ryan Pineda (25:10)

Yeah.

Mike (25:10)

You know, and if someone really had something bad happen to them, then it's an opportunity for the family to sit and listen to what happened.

Ryan Pineda (25:15)

I love them.

Mike (25:16)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (25:16)

Because I. I've been working on, like, talking with my fiance more about my thorns. Took me. Took me years to open up about my problems.

Mike (25:23)

That's awesome.

Ryan Pineda (25:23)

You know, I used to just bottle it in.

Mike (25:25)

Yeah, that's. I mean, most dudes are like that. You just suppress and suppress and suppress it. Before you know it, you could. You could over overcook, you know, like a pressure cooker.

Ryan Pineda (25:32)

Yeah. You know, that's what happens to guys, man. I'm sure you see a lot of that in young guys these days. Unfortunately, lack of purpose and just bottled up emotions. It's common, right?

Mike (25:40)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (25:40)

I'm sure that's one of the biggest problems.

Mike (25:42)

People are messaging you about lack of purpose. Hey, I have this dream to go do this thing, but I don't know how to do it. Is it too late for me? I really want to do. I really. When I first did music full time from 2015 to 2020, it was, I want to be a rapper. I want to be an artist. How do I become an artist? And I'm like, man, like. Like, you understand how hard it is now. It's. I want to be. I want to do YouTube. I want to be a YouTuber, I want to be a streamer, I want to write. And best time ever to do anything creative or anything with a small business. Like, I don't know if what you and I do would have existed 25 years ago. Like in the 90s, like, we would have, I don't know, go work for some, like, TV broadcast or something.

Ryan Pineda (26:21)

Right.

Mike (26:21)

That's it. Now almost anybody can do this and scale it, but that there still has to be sequencing and a bit of God's providence or what some people would call luck and just like a undeniable work ethic and grind.

Ryan Pineda (26:35)

Oh, for sure. There's a dark side of entrepreneurship. Oh, yeah. A lot of sacrifice. I've had burnout a lot.

Mike (26:40)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (26:41)

You know, these days I've gotten better at managing it.

Mike (26:43)

But how do you manage it?

Ryan Pineda (26:45)

So I take weekend, semi off.

Mike (26:47)

Okay.

Ryan Pineda (26:47)

I used to work seven days a week. Now I'd say I work, like, partially on weekends, so that helps. But getting active, getting in the gym, playing basketball. Yeah. I actually brought Bryce to basketball after our episode.

Mike (26:56)

Is he nice?

Ryan Pineda (26:58)

He was okay. He hasn't played in a while. Yeah. Working out, getting stressed out. Sauna. Taking care of my physical health and my mental health.

Mike (27:06)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (27:06)

You know?

Mike (27:07)

Yeah. Who was it? Someone gave me a gym. Justin early said something to the degree I'm butcher this quote, but there's a quote, he said, the man that works with his mind needs to relax and rest with his body active. And the person that works with their body needs to relax by making their mind active.

Ryan Pineda (27:27)

Interesting.

Mike (27:28)

Ain't that good?

Ryan Pineda (27:28)

That's really good.

Mike (27:29)

Right? So if we're always here and we got to be sharp, we got to know the topics, we got to do our research, and in a concept, it's all ahead. Right. So the Way we relax is like, go play ball, go wait, weightlift, go on a walk. I find this weird solace in yard work. Like, I like pulling out.

Ryan Pineda (27:45)

Really?

Mike (27:45)

Yeah. It's the weirdest thing. It doesn't make any sense on paper. Probably should hire somebody to do it, but I enjoy it.

Ryan Pineda (27:51)

Right.

Mike (27:52)

And then. Yeah. The people that are physically working probably need to just sit down, read a book, you know, listen to a podcast. Wow.

Ryan Pineda (27:58)

I love that. That resonates with me because I. When I play basketball, it's the. It's the most calm I am. Even though for some people, it's stressful. Right. I'd imagine playing sports and working out, but for me, I'm like, wow, I could finally decompress because this is so stressful. Yeah.

Mike (28:10)

Building this is really hard, man.

Ryan Pineda (28:12)

76 episodes last month.

Mike (28:14)

Come on.

Ryan Pineda (28:14)

Yeah, I know. You're an animal, bro. Yeah. You're probably filming hours a day too, though. Yeah.

Mike (28:18)

We do four days a week. We hit it hard about three. I say I'd say at least an hour on camera a day. Sometimes three to four hours on camera. Wow. And that usually will incorporate one guest a week. So we're not. We're not pumping them out like you are. But then we do a daily live stream show, if you will.

Ryan Pineda (28:34)

Yeah. What type of guests are you looking for?

Mike (28:36)

Mainly, man, we. I'm. Okay. So here's my challenge. I'd love to hear that. I'm trying to interview people that I find interesting.

Ryan Pineda (28:44)

Yeah.

Mike (28:44)

And figure out how to package it so it sort of content pops. Right. So, like, I just had Justin early on. Justin early is a bestselling author. He wrote a book called Habits of the Household, which my wife actually recommended to me. Amazing book. He booked before that. I can't remember the name, but it was about, like, habit formation from the perspective of the scriptures in the Bible. Right. He wrote another one before that about Community. That's the one I'm reading now.

Ryan Pineda (29:08)

Yeah.

Mike (29:09)

That's. That's amazing. Right. And so, like, as dudes, we sometimes forget that we're social creatures.

Ryan Pineda (29:13)

Right.

Mike (29:13)

You actually do need to sit down and talk to another. Another dude. Our wives and girlfriends are great, but there's only certain things that dudes can talk about.

Ryan Pineda (29:20)

Right.

Mike (29:20)

So, like, I'm reading that book now. So, like, Justin early, man, he's. He's so dope. So I just had him on the podcast, and so the. The challenge is how can I get those episodes to pop with people I genuinely find interesting that I think are ushering in good and Beauty into the world and package that. Because the things that pop are the things that are confrontational, sensational, controversial.

Ryan Pineda (29:41)

Yep.

Mike (29:41)

And someone that's just writing great books that help people. Like, how do I get that to go?

Ryan Pineda (29:45)

I face the same issue I'll have on the brightest minds, the most successful people. And it doesn't pull the views as like, some degeneracy or whatever.

Mike (29:53)

You know what I mean?

Ryan Pineda (29:54)

That's just social media. Like, the algorithm rewards that behavior. That's why you got guys like Jack Herdy pranking people. Like Neon or whatever. Pranking people. But Tally's in jail right now because he just got caught up with the numbers.

Mike (30:05)

I heard he's not. Is he. Is he sentenced yet?

Ryan Pineda (30:08)

I don't know if he got sentenced yet, but he's facing three charges in the.

Mike (30:11)

What was looking really bad for Philippines. Yeah, it's looking really bad.

Ryan Pineda (30:14)

He's been on the show, and he was sober when he came on, and I. I don't know. Something happened to him.

Mike (30:19)

Yeah, he. He followed the. Well, Molly Somali was the dude's name.

Ryan Pineda (30:23)

Oh, the black guy that was in. Was that Japan or something?

Mike (30:26)

Yeah. It's like he, like, followed that model.

Ryan Pineda (30:28)

Yeah.

Mike (30:28)

I don't know anyone that would look at that content strategy and be like, that's a good idea.

Ryan Pineda (30:32)

It's just not.

Mike (30:35)

Like I'm going to go in, annoy people in countries where I could actually get in trouble.

Ryan Pineda (30:39)

Yeah.

Mike (30:39)

For this.

Ryan Pineda (30:40)

But me seeing it from afar, I can see how they get there. Because when you're live streaming, you're chasing numbers. If you're not pulling viewers, you're going to do crazier and crazier things to get the viewership back up. You know what I mean? Live streaming, you got to be really mentally strong to make it there.

Mike (30:55)

So I came to the conclusion we go live four days a week, sometimes three days a week. This week, we only went two times a week. I came to the conclusion that our lives aren't very big, relatively speaking. 400 people, 500 people. Right. But I came to the conclusion that if people are watching our videos and actually doing something productive for themselves, I don't want people sitting around and watching me for eight hours. Right. I want them to grab a little tidbit and, like, go do the thing that you actually feel called to do instead of just passively consuming someone.

Ryan Pineda (31:25)

Take action.

Mike (31:26)

Right? Yeah. Take action. So it's like I. I came to conclusion that, like, I'm good. Like, I don't need to be pulling in thousands of live Viewers. Because if they're with me for three hours a day, like that's three hours of their day.

Ryan Pineda (31:36)

Right.

Mike (31:36)

Hearing me, kind of keep them company. It's cool if someone's in the gym, it's cool if someone's on the way to work. But like. Yeah, so I, I came to that conclusion. Like, I'm cool. Like if I don't, if I don't ever get to an average thousand viewers or 2,000 viewers, like, fine. And we'll have streams that pop off.

Ryan Pineda (31:50)

Yeah.

Mike (31:50)

I think the most we've ever gotten is probably like 5,6000 live stream, you know, but that's like news breaks, something sensational is happening. Everyone wants to hear what I think about it.

Ryan Pineda (31:58)

Well, that's a good spot to be in mentally, I feel like.

Mike (32:00)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (32:01)

Because then you're not anxious or worried. A lot of people, I would say, are not in that state of mind.

Mike (32:05)

Yeah, yeah. Well, again, chasing numbers, chasing money.

Ryan Pineda (32:08)

Yeah, it's just natural human instinct. Even myself, when I have a slow month, I'm like kind of down on myself, but I try to remember the long game, you know?

Mike (32:15)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (32:15)

Do you ever find yourself like obsessed with numbers?

Mike (32:18)

I used to. I think now that I. Two things. One, I've had a lot of refreshment in the concept of identity. Right. So identity. And I explore this in a book a bit. Identity tends to be two things, the way society perceives it. The one that we probably relate to is identity will be outside in. Right. So outside in identity is what value, metric, status do you generate? And that is your identity. So like in high school, if you played ball, your identity was you on the basketball team.

Ryan Pineda (33:00)

Right?

Mike (33:00)

Right. Forget if you're interested in tech, forget if you're right, that whatever you generated the most amount of value in that was your identity. Right. So it's an outside in identity. As an entrepreneur is very susceptible to that. The numbers, the metric, the thing. Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where identity is like an inside out identity. Right. So like Atomic Habits. James Clear explores this idea of people chase the numbers, but what you really got to change is the processes and the systems. But how do you change the processes in the systems if you don't view yourself differently? Right. Which is true. So did they study people who quit smoking? The people who quit smoking are people who did not identify as smokers any longer. They were more likely to quit smoking. Right. So you change the way you perceive yourself. So I'm an athlete, therefore I have systems in my life that are athletic, like Going to the gym, like working out, like going 10,000 steps a day. And then I get the outcomes that an athlete gets, I get more shredded, I eat better, so on and so forth.

Ryan Pineda (33:57)

Right?

Mike (33:59)

That is true to an agree. But the issue with that model is that it's still subjective to whatever you feel like. I can't just say I'm an astronaut, right? No, like there's only a certain number of astronauts. I can't say I'm an athlete when I'm not a professional athlete. I might have athletic aspirations, Right? So it's still subjective. And a third category of identity that very few people talk about is J. Warner Wallace defined it as top down identity. So it's not inside out, it's subjective. I feel like whatever I am, therefore I am, it's not outside in you provide this value, therefore we say you're. It's someone else declares who you are. Right. And so as being a Christian, my identity is defined by not what I provide and not what I feel like, but who Jesus says I am.

Ryan Pineda (34:44)

Wow.

Mike (34:44)

Right. And so if my identity is, I'm no longer a sinner, I'm a saint. If my identity is, I'm the temple of the living God, right? If my identity is, I am the righteousness of God because of what Jesus did on the cross for my sin, I'm now righteous. I'm declared righteous. I'm righteous because of what he did, not because of what I did. And I could keep going on, right? I'm a son, I'm a father, I'm a child of God. And I could keep adding these things. Now my identity is anchored in something beyond me and beyond what society says I am, it's actually anchored in who God says I am. Wow. So now if we go to fitness and I go, man, I can't just eat whatever I want. My body doesn't belong to me. It's the temple of God. God lives in me because of the Holy Spirit filling me. I need to be more active, I need to be around more for my kids. I need to take care of my body. I can't eat processed foods. I can't sit around all day. I need the strength train. Because if I strength train, I'll get more muscle. If I get more muscle, I'll be around longer. My body's not my own. It's the temple of God. Hey, I don't have to stay stuck and addicted. I don't have to stay in the cycle of repeating my trauma and living through these things. Why? Well, because Jesus died For that. And Philippians says that he gave me new desires and the ability and the power to do what obeys him. So that means there's something ontologically different about me because I believe in Jesus. He enters me, and now I have new desires and I have a new trajectory for life. Right. And so. So it's like. It's like James Clear's model of identity, but actually something beyond me that declares who I am and not my own. Oh, I'm just. I'm not an addict anymore.

Ryan Pineda (36:19)

Yeah.

Mike (36:19)

It's like. Well, based on what? Right? Based on what? Based on. Oh, it's based on who Jesus declares I am. And then the systems change, and then the outcomes change.

Ryan Pineda (36:30)

That is fascinating. I didn't know Christians viewed their identity that way.

Mike (36:33)

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. My identity is not who I think I am. It's who Jesus says I am. Holy crap.

Ryan Pineda (36:38)

Yeah. That's blowing my mind.

Mike (36:39)

So now think about that. As a creator, my identity is not in the views I generate. My identity is not in the money I generate. My identity is not in the clout I have. My identity is not in the size of my platform. My identity is not in any of those things. My identity is, I'm a child of God, loved. I'm accepted. I'm forgiven. I'm embraced. I have purpose. My purpose is to know God and make him known. I have responsibilities and a family, to love my father, I'm a husband, all these other things. So that's all peripheral. You know, it's like. It's like. It's like wanting to get a certain GPA in high school, and then you get out of high school, and you're like, why was I so worried about that? Right. Like, it's all inconsequential. I don't even remember my GPA for most of high school. I don't know if you do. I don't remember.

Ryan Pineda (37:20)

I do. Just because it was so bad. But, yeah, I don't.

Mike (37:22)

Yeah, I don't. It's like, it was so inconsequential in the grant. And so I think, like, a lot of what we're dealing with now will look back either in the next life or in this life. You'll probably look back when you have kids in a family and you're, you know, 45, 50 years old, and you'll be like, what was I doing? Like, why was I chasing this?

Ryan Pineda (37:36)

I do that every two, three years, honestly.

Mike (37:39)

And so. And there's nothing wrong with, like, wanting to build something great. It's just in how do we build something great, Right? So there's. There's a practical side. Now, here's the. Here's the second layer of that. There's nothing wrong with desiring greatness, right? Even in the Scriptures, there's a moment where the disciples multiple times are arguing over who's going to be the greatest in the kingdom of God. So remember, from their perspective, they're expecting a messianic political messiah that's going to overthrow the Roman occupation. And so they're arguing, who's going to be the greatest in the kingdom, who's going to be the greatest in the kingdom? And Jesus tells them, he says, hey, like the Gentiles and the pagans, they lord over you, they dominate you. They're domineering. It shouldn't be like that with you. You should seek greatness only in who's. Who's willing to serve. You want to be great. He was the servant of all is going to be the greatest, right? The last shall be first. And this happens actually at the Last Supper. So, like that famous painting, one of the things they're arguing about at the Last Supper is who's gonna be the greatest.

Ryan Pineda (38:37)

No way.

Mike (38:37)

Yeah. Yes. End of Luke, at the end of John. This. Ha. This is a argument they have. So. So Jesus never rebukes. The disciples desire to be great. He never rebukes it. He redirects it and redefines greatness. Greatness is servanthood. Greatness is stewardship. Greatness is not being obsessed with just what this world can produce. Right? And so now add that as an entrepreneur, if my objective is not just in status and trying to build my own castle, but it's an actually trying to help and serve as many people as I can. And I'm strategic with how I do that. I don't just have one anchor of. Oh, man, does YouTube better pop. Because if I have a bad month on YouTube, it all falls apart. But I'm anchoring it in multiple ways. I can help people live events. We have our journals, we have our devotionals. I have a book coming out. I speak in places. And I'm genuinely consumed with helping people. By helping people, I mean the version of myself from 20 years ago, 10 years ago. What do they need? How can I help? How can I give them a little bit of wisdom? I'll be all right. I'll be fine. It doesn't. It doesn't matter how much it does or doesn't generate today, because I think ultimately whoever helps the most amount of people wins.

Ryan Pineda (39:45)

I love that so do you believe in karma?

Mike (39:47)

That being said, then I believe in reaping what you sow.

Ryan Pineda (39:50)

Much so. Which is similar to karma, I'd say. Right.

Mike (39:53)

Karma is like you're storing up a cosmic debt for yourself, and if you do too many bad things, then it'll bypass that. And so reaping, which sows a little different. I believe we live in a cause and effect universe. So God set it up in a way where, man, if I plant good fruit and I pull the weeds out and I take care of the land, hopefully he'll send rain.

Ryan Pineda (40:16)

Right?

Mike (40:16)

Right. Maybe he'll help me build an irrigation system that can help me source some of the water that when a rain comes, I could steward it better. Right. But all of that comes in the next season. The only thing that grows instantly are weeds. As someone that works on my yard. Right. Like, like, I'm like, dude, I just pulled these out like a couple days ago. Like, I'll come back Friday from this trip and there'll be more weeds and I'll be like, pull the weeds out again.

Ryan Pineda (40:39)

Yeah.

Mike (40:40)

Right. So I think the journey of an entrepreneur, of a creative is you're constantly pulling bad things out 100 and then you're trying to cultivate good seed going forward. The issue is that all that good seed isn't produced until the next season. So there's ventures you're doing now that you're thinking about that that aren't going to happen are going to yield a result until the next season. Right. So, like, for us, we really want to get our podcast side popping on the Spotify podcast and Apple podcast. We have one of the biggest Christian YouTube podcasts on YouTube and we don't chart any of the Christian.

Ryan Pineda (41:12)

I could help you with that. We'll talk after.

Mike (41:13)

Yeah. And so, like, all right, cool. We got to clean up our podcast. I got to stop throwing 10 minute, 15 minute YouTube videos on the freaking Spotify app. That's a mess. Right. Let's clean it all up. Let's work on a description, let's title the difference, package it different. Right. And so now. But that may not generate anything for me for six months to a year the next season. And I'm okay with that. Right. So I think as long as I'm thinking about multiple things and how I can help people in multiple ways, the results will come. If I'm the type of guy that does all the things, the results will come eventually. And I'm also. And I also don't become the type of creator that's so aloof that I fall off, that I become the villain, that I become the Jack Doherty or the Adam 22. Right. I think I'll be fine. And so there's the answer to the question of, like, I don't really stress out about this stuff anymore. I think about it. We look at it, you know, we have goals that we want to hit every month and we got payroll and got health insurance for everybody. Like, we really take care of our guys. So I think about it, but I don't obsess about it. The way I use it makes sense.

Ryan Pineda (42:13)

Yeah, you're playing the long game. I think in today's society, everyone wants fast, instant results. And that's just a hard concept to rewiring people. I see, you know, they want instant.

Mike (42:22)

Gratification because TikTok did that for a lot of people. Yeah, right. TikTok. When TikTok came out, I mean, you could pop off and get a million views on your first video.

Ryan Pineda (42:30)

That happened to me. Yeah. I got 10 million on my first podcast clip.

Mike (42:32)

That's crazy.

Ryan Pineda (42:33)

Two years ago.

Mike (42:33)

Come on.

Ryan Pineda (42:34)

And I became addicted.

Mike (42:35)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (42:36)

You know, now I'm scrolling probably an hour a day on TikTok in.

Mike (42:39)

TikTok now has changed to where it's not as easy.

Ryan Pineda (42:44)

I could barely get a million now on TikTok. I used to get a million on like every five, ten videos. But it's. It's gotten a lot harder.

Mike (42:50)

I got more competitive. They changed the algorithm, you know, and so I think it was like that, that, that little window is kind of closed on TikTok. And so now then it goes back to. Okay, now we're back to playing the long run.

Ryan Pineda (43:00)

Now I'm on Instagram trials. That's the wave right now.

Mike (43:03)

Yeah, Instagram trials. Trials.

Ryan Pineda (43:06)

You haven't used that yet.

Mike (43:06)

No, it is that.

Ryan Pineda (43:07)

So when you post a reel, you can turn on trials, which goes to non followers only. And then if that video pops off, you could share it to your main feed. So it's a good way of testing concepts and ideas.

Mike (43:18)

That's actually really helpful. Yeah, so I've heard of this. I haven't used it.

Ryan Pineda (43:21)

Yeah, try it out. Play around with it. You could repost all your old content and see what pops off.

Mike (43:25)

Okay, that's really good to know.

Ryan Pineda (43:26)

Yeah. So we're milking that. You gotta take advantage when stuff is a new feature.

Mike (43:30)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (43:30)

That's when they're pushing it for sure. There's always a new thing.

Mike (43:32)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (43:33)

But dude, that was really interesting. Cause and effect. I like that.

Mike (43:36)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, everything is cause and effect to some degree with the caveat that you're able body, your sound mind, you're in the west, which is generally not going to kill you if you say something crazy about the government. It's not going to, you know, chop your head off. If you're a Christian, generally speaking, what.

Ryan Pineda (43:51)

If you get, like a bad disease or something?

Mike (43:54)

So, yes, there's the guy that lives four times a week, eats super clean, does all the things, and still gets cancer. Like, that's tragic. Right? That's the byproduct of living in a broken, fallen, sinful world. Those happen. But generally speaking, what we're doing is we're trying to stack the deck in our favor. We're trying to do everything we can to say, hey, my body's a temple of God, I don't want to get cancer. So I'm going to do things that are going to mitigate my risks to get cancer. Stay within a healthy weight, have more muscle, healthy body fat, eat good, don't eat processed foods. Right?

Ryan Pineda (44:24)

Yeah.

Mike (44:24)

You could do all that and still get cancer for sure.

Ryan Pineda (44:26)

100.

Mike (44:26)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (44:27)

Do you believe there's an energetic component to life, like, like spiritual, like energy?

Mike (44:31)

So I think that word energy is. Is. Is is a loaded term. Right? So I think, like, energy in the sense of. Yes, in that, like, food is technically energy, calories are energy. Like, it's an energy expenditure. Right. So if you do your body fat, they'll say like your basal metabolic rate is whatever amount of calories based on your expenditure. So, yes, in a. In a very technical sense, in the sense that, like, there is a realm beyond this realm. Yeah, I would absolutely say, yeah, there's a realm beyond this realm. There's spirits and there's angels and there's demons and all that. Yes, I believe all of that is real in the sense that, like, your thoughts are things like your thoughts have vibrations or your words create your worlds. I don't think that is as accurate as people want it to be because if that were the case, then every struggling soundcloud rapper would be a mega star.

Ryan Pineda (45:21)

So manifestation. You're not.

Mike (45:22)

Yeah, I'm. I'm not. And I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying when it does work, it's under demonic forces. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I think when people are using these, like, I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to speak these things. I'm going to create these things. The enemy has power too. There There is a enemy that, that has power. Scriptures call him the God of this world. So I think there is a way to do these things. But you also got to work and you also got to be lucky. Right. Or so. Yes. I think it's usually under that now when an average person is like, hey, I. I'm going to speak more positively. Right. Well, it's positive. People are more pleasant to be around. Right, Right. So I don't think it's a one to one of like you spoke said thing and this thing happened and materialized to you where you thought that. No, it's just that if you're speaking positive and you're thinking positive, generally speaking, you're probably more present to be around. You're probably more anchored in gratitude. You're more fun to be or you're a good hang. You're actually trying to solve people's problems and serve people. But I don't think it's the thought in and of itself because I know people that think very positively and don't do anything and don't get any results. And now I know, you know these people too. I know people that are very pessimistic. Oh yeah, paranoid. They think they're going to fall off. They think this all going to change, it's going to end tomorrow. And there's a paranoia there. And they're negative, they're naturally negative and they build massive things.

Ryan Pineda (46:37)

Grant Cardone's a great example of that. He told me he's always on edge. He's super pessimistic.

Mike (46:41)

He beat PBD as well. Oh, PBD has a whole thing about being paranoid.

Ryan Pineda (46:45)

Wow.

Mike (46:45)

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yes, be positive and be encouraging and be stand up. But you can. There's also people that are very negative and pessimistic that build incredible things.

Ryan Pineda (46:53)

Do you think you need both or do you dive all into positivity for yourself?

Mike (46:55)

Oh, no, I need both. I have a degree of paranoia.

Ryan Pineda (46:58)

Okay. Yeah.

Mike (46:59)

Because I know I could be my own worst enemy, you know, I know, I know my, my desires unchecked without community, without the holy spirit can run rampant. Greater men have fallen and ruined and shipwrecked their life, you know, and if you've ever been around and seen people that had it all, had the family, had the business and then they shipwrecked their. Just ruin it, everything. You have a degree of paranoia about yourself. And then, yeah, I think within business you want to be paying attention to the markets and the trends and where things are going and keeping A pulse on things. Just don't want to let that define you.

Ryan Pineda (47:31)

Yeah, I guess you can't be totally optimistic to the point where you're blind because you're delusional. At that point, you're delusional. Yeah, that's a good point.

Mike (47:37)

Right. We all need a degree of positive positivity and just like, hey, how can we hope? And what is it? But when you're just like, you know those people, too, though. You know those people?

Ryan Pineda (47:45)

I've had them on the show.

Mike (47:46)

Yeah, they're just delusional, you know, and it might break my mind. I know it's coming. I know it's coming. It's like, yeah, but are you doing anything for it to change anything in your current circumstances?

Ryan Pineda (47:55)

Yeah, I've never heard the demon angle with manifestation.

Mike (47:58)

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (47:59)

So how does that work? Because I have a vision board. I like, say goals out loud, like. So where does the demon stuff come into play?

Mike (48:05)

Well, I don't want to speak for you because I don't know you well enough, but I think generally, like, if you are calling on something beyond you or you think you're God. Right. Because a lot of the new age stuff goes back to not a creator, creation distinction. Right. Meaning that there's a creator. He created everything. There's a mind that made our mind. Right. But. But that this mind in my mind are one and I am creator and I'm ultimately God. Right. Which is when you get to the root of what Billy Carson taught. When you get to the root of some of these things, that's really what they're saying. It usually goes like this. The universe is one. You are one with the universe. The universe is God, therefore you're God.

Ryan Pineda (48:44)

I've seen that take. Yeah.

Mike (48:45)

Now, that's Genesis 3, bro. That's the fall. That's the. That's the enemy coming and telling Eve, you will be like God. And it doesn't mean be like God in a virtuous sense. It means you will be like God as an. Ontologically, you're going to be different. You know what I mean? And so I think that paradigm is very dangerous. If someone's. I've had vision boards before. I've said things out loud. I read scripture over myself, right. If I'm, like, trying to remember, I messed up in this area. But I remember Romans 8:1. Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are Christ Jesus. That's. That's not the same thing as, like, my mind is God in the universe, and I'm Going to manifest realities with my mind. So if you're taking before and after photos or say like, like I had a really. I got really shredded a couple years ago. I'm trying to get back to it, like £15. I might look up the photo for me when I was. And I'll be like, man, I want to shoot for that. That's not the same as like. And I'm going to use the powers to be this thing. So I don't know enough about your situation. But with the me is when you start thinking you are God, whether practically or by proxy, I think that's where you're opening up yourself to demonic forces.

Ryan Pineda (49:55)

Yeah, I'm not on that level. And then there's people that claim they could speak to God on command. I'm pretty skeptical, you know what I mean?

Mike (50:01)

What do you mean? To God on command?

Ryan Pineda (50:03)

Like they'll just medit. Meditate and be able to communicate or they'll channel like I had on a channeler viral clip.

Mike (50:09)

But she was great. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (50:11)

It's just like, I'm a little skeptical.

Mike (50:12)

I'm being sarcastic.

Ryan Pineda (50:13)

Yeah, yeah, no, I actually had anxiety during that. It was interesting.

Mike (50:16)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (50:16)

I don't know what she channeled, but.

Mike (50:18)

I think she channeled something demonic. That's why you had anxiety?

Ryan Pineda (50:21)

I had tight chest. Yeah. Like, I've never had that on an episode before. I've filmed 1500 episodes.

Mike (50:26)

Yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think all of us are created in the image of God. All the scriptures in Ecclesiastes says that eternity is written on a human heart. And so I think even if you're, you don't know where you're at with Jesus, you know enough. And you have a conscience and you're creating an image of God where your, your, your spirit, your soul is going. Something's off, some's off. She's manifesting.

Ryan Pineda (50:45)

Yeah.

Mike (50:45)

You know what I mean?

Ryan Pineda (50:46)

Yeah. That channeling stuff is. There's just no proof with it. You know what I mean? Like, I know the Bashar guy's pretty famous too. It's just like, I don't know what to think of.

Mike (50:54)

They're channeling something.

Ryan Pineda (50:55)

I think they are. Like you could feel weird. Like it feels. It feels. Have you been in a room with a channeler before?

Mike (51:02)

No.

Ryan Pineda (51:02)

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend it.

Mike (51:04)

Yeah, yeah. Again, I think the dangerous part is the erasing the distinction between who we are ontologically and who God is ontologically.

Ryan Pineda (51:13)

Yeah.

Mike (51:14)

I think that's a very dangerous place. And that's a lot of the new age, new thought type stuff. And, and, and listen, some of it's even crept into Christianity. There are churches that kind of preach this like you got to believe hard enough and then God will give you your miracle. You got to believe hard enough and God will give you the million dollars. And it's like man, you could, you could believe and God may say no.

Ryan Pineda (51:31)

I've seen clips about. Yeah, yeah.

Mike (51:34)

Like you seem to the. Tyler. Tyler. What is the guy? The guy does super dope documentaries where he'll go into like the world's most dangerous city.

Ryan Pineda (51:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (51:41)

See the one he just did on the prosperity church?

Ryan Pineda (51:42)

No, I didn't love it, bro. I got to check that out.

Mike (51:45)

Yeah. And it was cool because he did it in a way that didn't bash all of Christianity. Didn't hyper generalize.

Ryan Pineda (51:50)

Right.

Mike (51:50)

Christianity. It was like, hey, these guys are fleecing religion. That's not good.

Ryan Pineda (51:56)

Was that the one where they locked the doors in and said you had to donate to leave?

Mike (51:59)

No, but it's that style church.

Ryan Pineda (52:00)

Okay.

Mike (52:00)

It's that style church. Now he pulled up on Benny Hinn and rushed to stage. It opens with that and closes with that. It's like a 30 minute episode. So it's really good episode.

Ryan Pineda (52:07)

That's nuts.

Mike (52:08)

And he did a good job. And then he actually had Christians in the episode. He reached out to one of my friends, Mike Winger had that an episode. And I was like, man, that's so good. But this is. That's the thing is like there's there, there has. In my opinion there has to be an alternative for all of this. And it can't. Christians sometimes are so heavenly minded. They're of northly good. So it's like, do you just place your faith in Jesus and like you got your health insurance and it's like, yeah, but like what about all this now? Like I want to assure in good. I want to build something. I want to help people. And I think that's where I was like, okay, there has to be. Because the Christian will either like say punt your life or God will give you your wildest dreams if you, if you believe and give enough. And both of those are wrong. Both of those are wrong. I think the answer is stewardship. Like the answer is managing what it is that God has given you.

Ryan Pineda (52:55)

Yeah.

Mike (52:55)

And being faithful.

Ryan Pineda (52:56)

I love that. That's a form of journalism that we need more of when they cover both sides in one video.

Mike (53:00)

Yeah, he killed it.

Ryan Pineda (53:01)

That's awesome.

Mike (53:02)

Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (53:02)

Is there a lot of divide within the Christian community? Because I saw George Janko get called out a few times. I don't know exactly what happened there.

Mike (53:08)

But I mean, any community that becomes chronically online, there's going to be division. You can get with Christians in 95% of stuff we agree on. Right. So George is a friend. Like, I was on the phone with George a couple of days ago. I was driving in from Maine to Boston. I just randomly hit him up. I just randomly call him. He'll pick up when he calls me. So he's a friend. And I think George is in that place of like, he's a bit newer. He is. He's been successful and famous for a long time, and he's. He's working it out in front of the whole world. That's a brutal place to be.

Ryan Pineda (53:38)

Right.

Mike (53:39)

You know, but I think all things considering, I think George is doing fantastic. I think George Dan goes doing really good. And so, yeah, there will be people that disagree with him about this one thing. And then like, he's a wolf or he's a heretic or he's a this, and they'll use the strongest degree of language.

Ryan Pineda (53:51)

You got called a wolf.

Mike (53:53)

I mean, you get in comments. Yes, but there was other creators that said some pretty wild stuff about him and about me. I mean, there's thousands of videos made about me of really all kinds of stuff.

Ryan Pineda (54:02)

What are they attacking you for?

Mike (54:03)

I mean, some of it will be people from different streams of Christianity. So sometimes it'll be like the Eastern Orthodox people will have something to say. Sometimes there'll be people who think that because we sell stuff, it's wrong and we shouldn't sell anything because we're Christian and Christians are called to be poor. Other times we'll talk about money flippantly. We'll talk about money in a way of like, hey, just like we talked about health and fitness. Hey, God has a lot to say about money. Proverbs lays out most of our principles on financial literacy today. Live on less than what you make. Avoid consumer debt. And if you're in consumer debt, get out of it as quickly as possible.

Ryan Pineda (54:32)

Dave Ramsey.

Mike (54:33)

Dave Ramsey. Right. Invest. Save for a rainy day. Have an emergency fund. Save for a rainy day. Be generous. Have a plan, right? No, ultimately God's in control, but have some sort of plan. Gazelle intensity. Dave Ramsey preaches that a lot. Like, if you're gonna lock in on something, go all in for a season. Right? And so, like, a lot of these principles are in the scriptures, right? There's one of my favorite verses is Is he who cha. He who works his land will have abundant food, but he who chases fantasies will have their fill of poverty. Right. And so like add that to this content creator space. Like, am I working my land or am I chasing fantasies?

Ryan Pineda (55:11)

Yeah.

Mike (55:11)

Am I being faithful to what's in front of me? So all of this stuff comes, I think from a biblical worldview, a lot of it. And it gets co opted. It gets corrupted by either the world or prosperity preachers. And, and then what happens? People will then be mad when someone's just giving a general take. Like I'll just be like, hey, you don't have to struggle and be live paycheck to paycheck in America.

Ryan Pineda (55:32)

Yeah.

Mike (55:32)

You know, you can actually like save and get out of debt and have a plan and crush it in these different areas. And it's like, that's the. You talking about money? It's like. Yeah. Like one out of five or one out of six of Jesus's talks was about money.

Ryan Pineda (55:46)

Wow.

Mike (55:47)

He talks about money a lot. I could read you a passage. You'll find trippy.

Ryan Pineda (55:50)

You know he was an entrepreneur, Right.

Mike (55:52)

He was a carpenter. I've heard that Paul was a tent maker. So Paul would go and preach the gospel and he would say stuff like, hey, even though you should be taking care of me financially and you have taken care of others. Peter, and Peter got the trouble with a wife and all. You know what? I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna go be a tent maker. I'm gonna have my little small, small business on the side so that I don't have to be a burden on you. And you can't even say that money is a part of this thing.

Ryan Pineda (56:15)

Yeah.

Mike (56:15)

To take care of himself.

Ryan Pineda (56:16)

I mean, we got wealthy kingdom tomorrow. It's all about aligning those principles you're talking about. Right?

Mike (56:20)

That's right. Yeah.

Ryan Pineda (56:20)

That's cool, man. Well, I can't wait to see what you're up to, what debates you line up and we'll link all your stuff below anything else you want to close off with here, let me read you.

Mike (56:29)

One passage of scripture before we get out of here. Okay. So this is like one of my favorite. We did a whole devotional based on this. It won't be too long, but I think, I think you'll be like, oh, that's fire. So Luke, chapter 19. So this is the parable of the 10 Minas or the 1010 bags of gold. Right. It says while they were listening to this, he went on to tell a parable. So parable is a story, he said, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear. He said, a man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So Jesus is the man of noble birth in this story, right? He says. So he called 10 of his servants and gave them 10 minas. Put his money. Put this money to work, he said, until I come back. The KJV says, occupy until I come. I love the language. Occupy until I come. The ESV says, do business with this, right? So Jesus is leaving, gives resource to these servants. Do business with this. Put this money to work, right? But the. But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, we don't want this man to be our king. He was made king, however, and return home then. He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money in order to find out what they had gained with it. What they had gained with it, right? The first one came and said, sir, your minas has earned 10 more. Well done, my good servant. His master replied, because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of 10 cities. The second came and said, sir, your minas has earned five more. His master answered, you take charge of five cities. So the first one took it. He doubled up. The second one took it, doubled up, right? Then another servant came and said, sir, here's your mina. I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. I was afraid of you because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow. What is that? That's. That's business. That's. That's leverage, right? So Jesus is described as someone. The master is described as someone that you're reaping where you did not sow, right? He's using leverage. He's. He's shrewd. His master replied, I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant. You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in and reaping what I did not sow. Why then didn't you put my money on deposit so that when I came back, I could have collected with interest? Then he said to those standing by, take this mina away from him and give it to the one who has 10 Minas? Sir, they replied, he already has 10. He replied, I tell you that to everyone who has more, who has more will be given, but it's for the one who has Nothing, even what they have will be taken away. Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Ryan Pineda (58:59)

Whoa, Jesus said that?

Mike (59:00)

Yeah, dude. So That's Luke, chapter 19, verse 11, right? Pretty gnarly stuff, right?

Ryan Pineda (59:05)

He was ruthless.

Mike (59:06)

Yeah, man. So, so, so like one, you're reading that and that sounds like a pretty entrepreneurial passage of scripture. Yeah, right. Hey, I'm giving you resource. Be faithful with it. The framework is, this isn't my resource. This is God's. My life is God's, my body's God, my family's, God's. And then he's coming back and so he wants to see how I've been faithful with it given me. Right again. The Christians, sometimes so heavily minded, no earthly good. They want to put their life. Don't want to be faithful. But when you read, and that's just one, I can take you to Matthew 25. I could take you to so many stories where you read this and you're like, dude, Jesus sounds like a gangster.

Ryan Pineda (59:38)

Yeah. About us. Well, thanks for sharing that, man.

Mike (59:41)

I appreciate you, brother.

Ryan Pineda (59:42)

On again. Check them out, guys.

Mike (59:44)

Peace.

Ryan Pineda (59:49)

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping. Oh, come on. They called it truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever. You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.