Transcript

A (0:00)

I went down there, and we found out that he was really planning on killing people. And it got so detailed that we canvassed this. This couple. They believe the couple were very active members of the Antifa. I was able to slow them down because the planning was pretty terrible. It changed a few times, but it ended up to where they wanted me and the cell leader, tmb, to kind of go through the house and kill everybody while Helter Skelter held guard at the window. And then Pestmoox was going to set the house on fire and burn it down. But then it got to the point to where Helter Skelter's like, hey, I want to pop my cherry. And I'm like, wow, what are you talking about? That mean something different to me.

B (0:41)

Okay, guys, special episode today we got Scott Payne, retired FBI agent. Living a calmer life these days, I'd imagine, right?

A (0:47)

Yeah. Lots of traveling since the book came out, but yeah.

B (0:50)

Yeah, you're out here for the. The Mob Museum, right, in Vegas.

A (0:52)

Do that tomorrow? Yeah, tomorrow.

B (0:54)

You've been there yet before?

A (0:55)

No, I haven't. I'm really excited to get you big.

B (0:58)

On the mob stuff. You like that one?

A (0:59)

Yeah. I mean, when I first became an agent, my first office was in New York City. So you go through a rotation because they don't just put you directly on a big squad because they want you to learn New York City and the five boroughs and how to get in and out of the office and all that stuff. But, yeah, I sat on a lot of wiretaps for the organized crime squad, the 22nd floor back then. Pre 9 11, 22nd floor at 26 Fed. Half of it was drugs, and the other half was organized crime.

B (1:25)

Wow.

A (1:25)

So, yeah, I sat on quite a few.

B (1:27)

So you were trying to infiltrate the Mafia back?

A (1:28)

No, I wasn't undercover. I was just a case agent. I'm just. Just a new agent listening to, like, they might have a wiretap on somebody, and I'm listening to it. Yeah, right. Taking notes, writing down anything pertinent, not pertinent.

B (1:39)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour

Episode: Scott Payne – Inside The Base: Goat Sacrifice, Murder Plots & America’s Hidden Extremists | DSH #1665
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Scott Payne (Retired FBI Agent, Author)
Date: December 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This gripping episode features retired FBI agent Scott Payne, renowned for his deep undercover work inside America’s most dangerous extremist groups. Hosted by Sean Kelly, the conversation dives into the harrowing details of Payne’s infiltration of violent white supremacist networks, the psychological toll of undercover work, the reality of extremist recruitment online, and disturbing firsthand accounts of murder plots and ritualistic acts. Payne’s stories shed light on both the complexity and evolution of domestic extremism in America.

Key Topics & Insights

Early Law Enforcement Career and Undercover Beginnings

[00:44–03:53]

Payne’s Law Enforcement Start: Began as a patrol officer, then became a vice/narcotics investigator in South Carolina.
- First undercover gig: “I just rolled down to the corner and bought a crack rock for $20.”
Transition to FBI: Initially worked wiretaps for organized crime in New York (pre-9/11), learning the ropes on street crime and mob operations.

Challenges and Dangers of Undercover Work

[04:06–13:46]

Increasing Dangers: Modern technology and social media make undercover work more dangerous due to ubiquitous cameras and digital tracking.
- “Buying dope for $20 on the street’s dangerous these days. Even mid-90s, there’s always a propensity for violence.” [04:13, A]
Infiltrating Biker Gangs: Payne discusses his work with Outlaws biker gangs, noting the inherent suspicion towards newcomers and the challenges of maintaining cover—especially given his Southern accent in Massachusetts.
Near-Death Strip Search:
- “They took me into a basement and stripped me at gunpoint… They searched me, I went down there and I took off all my clothes…they even started going through my clothing with a recording device in it.” [09:12–13:46, A]
- Payne narrowly avoids detection by staying cool under pressure, calling it “divine intervention.”

The Psychological Toll and Burnout

[20:45–21:49, 26:18–26:51]

Mental Toll: Two years embedded in the Outlaws, combined with overlapping cases, led to a total physical and mental crash.
- “I met my threshold one day. I physically and mentally crashed. I was done.” [21:40, A]
Safeguard Unit: FBI’s psychological assessment program for agents working particularly traumatic crimes (e.g., child exploitation)—Payne reveals how agents must routinely undergo psychological evaluation to avoid lasting harm.

Long-Term Undercover Work: Accelerationist & White Supremacist Groups

[40:45–61:36]

Infiltration of “The Base”:
- Recruitment: “Save Your Race. Join The Base” – calls for white supremacist paramilitary recruitment on Gab.
- Tactics: The Base operates in 3–5 man cells, modeling themselves after Al Qaeda, waiting for the “boogaloo” (race war).
- Rituals: “We did some blots, which is the ritual ceremony in paganism…we’d cut ourselves and bleed on the wood with the runes…Then we would light it on fire and pray till the fire went out.” [46:36–47:24, A]
- Goat Sacrifice: Members steal a goat, conduct a Norse-inspired pagan ritual, and drink its blood—used as a sacrificial act to signal the beginning of racial violence.
  - “They said, 'Hey man, we’re going to go sacrifice this goat'…I guess I’m going down in the woods.” [47:59–49:19, A]
  - “So it gets around to me, it’s my turn to drink the blood…I took two fingers, put it all deep in the blood, sucked all the blood off.” [53:18–54:05, A]
Murder Plots:
- Planned assassinations of Antifa-affiliated targets and discussions of attacking journalists and public figures.
  - “It ended up to where they wanted me and the cell leader, TMB, to kind of go through the house and kill everybody while Helter Skelter held guard at the window, and then Pestilence was going to set the house on fire and burn it down.” [00:00, 56:24–56:54, A]
  - “Helter Skelter's like, hey, I want to pop my cherry…and he's like, oh, I actually want to put a bullet in a person's head. I've been waiting for this for at least two years.” [56:54, A]
- Prevention: Payne’s interventions and slow-play tactics bought time for the FBI to make arrests before actual violence occurred.

Radicalization in the Digital Age

[38:08–40:45, 62:34–63:42]

Online Recruitment:
- Extremist groups leverage encrypted apps (Discord, Telegram, Wire) and gaming chats (Roblox, Fortnite) to radicalize and recruit youth.
- “Bad people go to Discord, Telegram, 4chan, 8chan, 12chan…Roblox, Fortnite, they're talking on there and all. They're blending in.” [38:19–38:41, A & B]
Sick Online Subcultures:
- Nihilistic groups like 764, promoting self-harm, sexual abuse, animal torture, and incentivized “point systems”: “There's a group…their saints are mass shooters. What are you going to do to make the leaderboard?” [59:10, A]
- The blending of white supremacy, satanic ritual, and online sadism is described as a new and dangerous evolution.

Reflections on Crime, Culture, and Society

[31:04–34:07, 64:06–64:51]

Modern Adversity and Cancel Culture:
- Payne laments a generation unprepared for adversity, drawing links between “helicopter parenting”, lack of failure, and susceptibility to radical ideologies and cancel culture.
- “I think that you got to take the opportunities away…maybe you take away the opportunity, but…it's just crazy.” [36:03–37:23, A]
War on Drugs & Crime:
- Candid perspective on why the war on drugs and extremism are unwinnable: “No, I don't think so…It's a cat and mouse game. They're going to try to figure out a way to get it, and we're going to try to figure out a way to stop it.” [64:06, A]

Personal Motivation and Ethics

[17:53–19:18, 46:36, 63:49–64:07]

Why Undercover: Payne frames his law enforcement career as a “calling”—“servant’s heart, bully of bullies”—and stresses that no case is worth losing your family, health, or self.
Camaraderie in the Bureau: Mentions mentors and the importance of psychological evaluation to prevent undercover agents from getting lost in their roles.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On surviving a strip search by armed bikers:

“They had just finished church, which is their meeting…two guys had their guns on me, down in the basement, stripping me, looking for a wire and making me write down all kinds of information, but even if I would have got past them, I still had like eight or more Outlaws upstairs, with a locked door, metal bar across it…” [09:12–11:08, A]
On the goat sacrifice ritual:

“We went down in the woods…and after praying, they tried to chop its head off…it didn’t do nothing…then someone asks if somebody had a weapon, and one did…they shot the goat, poured its blood in a cup, everyone kneeling and drinking.” [49:19–53:18, A]
Explaining The Base's ideology:

“Accelerationism is this belief system that they don’t believe there’s a political solution…they believe society is going to collapse on its own, or through manmade events, and they want to speed it up…talking like guerrilla warfare: take down power grid, poison water, derail train, kill anti-fascists, Jews, non-whites.” [41:46–42:33, A]
On thwarting a murder plot:

“I was able to slow them down because the planning was pretty terrible. It changed a few times…they wanted me and the cell leader TMB to go through the house and kill everybody while Helter Skelter held guard at the window, and then Pestilence was going to set the house on fire and burn it down.” [00:00, 56:24–56:54, A]
On modern extremism:

“There are tons of kids being radicalized online. It could be Radical Jihad, far-left, far-right…they’re getting them to do things, grooming them…having live chat groups…cutting themselves, slicing, points system, bean cuts.” [38:08–40:18, A]
Payne’s “big country” law enforcement ethos:

“In my world, I just want you to understand that there are evil people on this planet that want to do evil things to good people. And it’s been that way since the beginning of time.” [63:49, A]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Start of Extremist Infiltration and Murder Plots: [00:00–01:25, 56:24–56:54]
Organized Crime & Early FBI Work: [00:59–03:44]
Danger of Deep Cover/Strip Search Incident: [09:12–13:46]
Psychological Toll/Burnout Safeguard: [20:45–22:14; 26:18–26:51]
Online Radicalization and Grooming: [38:08–40:45]
Goat Sacrifice Ritual/Accelerationist Paganism: [47:57–54:05]
Details of The Base & Murder Conspiracies: [41:08–46:11; 54:31–56:54]
Discussion of Modern Extremist Groups & Digital Platforms: [62:34–63:42]

Conclusion

Scott Payne’s account offers a rare, unflinching view of the front lines in America’s fight against extremism—from terrifying near-exposures in biker gangs to surreal rituals and murder conspiracies among accelerationist neo-Nazis. His willingness to discuss both the visceral realities and emotional tolls of undercover work gives listeners a sobering look at the ever-evolving nature of extremist threats and the hidden battles waged to stop them.

Find Scott Payne:

Socials: @ScottPayneBigCountry (Instagram, LinkedIn, X, Threads)
Book: "Pale Horse" (title referenced)

[Compiled and summarized for listeners who want a thorough yet engaging re-cap of one of the most jaw-dropping Digital Social Hour episodes to date.]

wavePod

Scott Payne- Inside The Base: Goat Sacrifice, Murder Plots & America’s Hidden Extremists | DSH #1665