Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (1:44)

I watch most of my shows. If I'm not driving, I'll watch podcasts on YouTube almost every time.

Sean Cannell (1:48)

Yeah. And I YouTube premium user. So even if I'm not watching them, I'll turn them on on YouTube and then just listen to the audio passively.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (1:55)

Yeah, they really took over though, because Spot, I think what Apple used to be the leader in Spotify, now YouTube's.

Sean Cannell (2:01)

And those are huge platforms. And I mean the powerful thing about podcasting, anybody on the fence thinking about starting one is the distribution in both formats because you get to leverage multiple different platforms.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (2:11)

Right. And so many short form comes from it too.

Sean Cannell (2:13)

Yep.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (2:14)

I just love it. And it's a really good roi. It's not too expensive once you get the setup. Like the studio set up.

Sean Cannell (2:19)

Yep.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (2:19)

Just editing costs, I guess. Yeah. So I, I recommend people start. I know it's saturated, but it all depends on how you're going to use it, I guess, too.

Sean Cannell (2:26)

Yeah, I think there's some. That's probably one of the biggest themes right now for anyone that wants to start a podcast or a YouTube channel is feeling like competition. Am I too late? Is it too saturated? And I don't think it is. If you adapt, innovate in your creative. I think that competition is highest for low effort content. That lazy content doesn't work anymore if you just kind of dabble in it. But if you're willing to just learn a few skills, you know, invest a little bit time, even if it's still a side hustle, you can do well, but it takes more intentionality and strategy.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (3:00)

Right. So when you say lazy content, what do you. What do you mean by that?

Sean Cannell (3:03)

Well, I think let's talk for podcasting, for example, a lot of people just think, okay, if I put a couple mics down, get a guest, talk to them for an hour uploaded on YouTube, that deserves views. That is the wrong perspective. If you don't. If you're not thoughtful about your guests, thoughtful about how you're going to position them, thoughtful about the hook, the order of the questions, not just the conversation, but maybe how you edit it later, the packaging of the title, the thumbnail. So a lot of people feel entitled to views without actually just working on some of these fundamentals. I don't want to make it seem like it's out of reach. What's interesting about life, if. If you just put in, you know, a little bit of extra effort, you can have exponential results. There's like real math that it's like if you read five books on a topic, you're in the top 10% of humans in terms of expertise on that topic. You read like another 10 books and you're in like the top 1% of humans on the earth and expertise on that topic. But most people that jump into content podcasting, they haven't studied, they haven't thought about mastery, best practices. And so the opposite approach is, if you actually are like, how am I going to bring some unique value to the podcast space? How am I going to find a unique angle, do some audience research, think about things like branding and positioning. Think about doing the opposite of people doing a lot of one to two to three hour conversations. Maybe you have an optimized show that's 24 minutes and has some segments and is really designed. You, you're, you're thoughtful about what you're doing, identifying gaps in the market and so you can still win if you have more rigor and more strategy in your approach.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (4:40)

Love all of that. And that resonates with me so deeply because I started the show somewhat late, you know, two years ago, you were one of my first guests and I didn't want to compete on long form at first because there was so many really good podcasts. So I did 30 minute episodes and I knew I knew how to separate myself. So I went all in on editing too, especially on the short form. And I hired US based editors over overseas. So I paid more, but I was able to get way more views and scale. So I reinvested most of my profits back into editing early on.

Sean Cannell (5:06)

Yeah, super smart. And that's, I mean whether that is learning to edit better yourself, perhaps getting a, you know, online jobs ph editor or you know, some kind of a freelancer to edit AI tools can help a little bit now. Or if you invest more. Business owners, entrepreneurs. I think there's like maybe an. I've seen this perspective a lot. We help a lot of business owners, CEOs, a lot of service providers, real estate professionals. And sometimes real estate professionals will like get connected to some of our coaching and our programs and they'll start YouTube and they'll be shooting their videos and they'll be editing their own videos. And I was doing a coaching call with one guy and I was like, do you like fix the things that break in the houses that you manage? He goes, no. I'm like, are you painting and like furnishing the houses? He's like, no. He's like, I delegate all that stuff. I'm like, then why aren't you delegating these things when it comes to YouTube? So side hustlers, you might need to just bootstrap and learn all these skills yourself. But what was interesting is this guy had money, but he sort of had like this limited thinking in terms of investing in, to content. So I think you made a really smart play. You just invested more than others to give yourself an edge. And I would never give into the mentality for someone's like, well that's, you know, it takes money to make money. I don't think so. If you got time, you could put in the blood, sweat and tears to get some momentum. But yeah, if you invest more, then you're going to get better returns.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (6:33)

Yeah, I went all in on editing because I, I think especially with trials like, you can really post a lot per day now.

Sean Cannell (6:40)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (6:41)

Test a lot of stuff.

Sean Cannell (6:41)

Yeah, we're doing. Yeah, I know you got to do it manually, but we have a social media manager, so he does like four to eight. And crazy stuff has been happening with trial reels. You know what's also interesting is again, most of us can't compete with top 1% of podcasts, but if you look at what this kind of gives a picture of how the game is changing and the bar is being raised. If you look at diary of a CEO, definitely a top 1% podcast. They a lot of times will film 10 camera angles. So it gives them so much variety to choose emotions, choose what shot looks best, the whole experience. They will split, test 100 thumbnails. Geez. Three different faces, 30 different phrases. And they will oftentimes film for three hours, but the edit will be an hour and 45. And so they'll really think about. And then, of course, it's not even just a hook. It's a trailer. There's a trailer at the beginning. What is going to hold the audience retention, a research team helping with the questions and like the order of the questions and what, what, what do we get a lead with? What's the packaging? Of course, thumbnail title, all of that stuff. And then, and then even Stephen, like developing his interview skills and, and trying to create those emotive moments.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (7:53)

Yep.

Sean Cannell (7:53)

So. So it's like those little details and, and I know how that sounds because then someone goes, oh, there's no hope for me. You know, when I think about that. Well, on the long tail, there's a lot of hope. I mean, these episodes are pulling a million views to 3 million views. That's just what I see on YouTube. It's. That's like stupid. Like the chance to find your. A thousand true fans. The. The chance to like carve out a niche audience and do a side hustle. It's there, but just thinking about it's kind of like shifting from an amateur mindset to a pro mindset. Famous book called Turning Pro and just starting to imitate what a pro would do. A pro has the best nutrition, the best workout routines. They're actually going to practice. They're. They're doing the reps, they are getting coaching. And pros just function different than Amateurs. And really that just starts with a simple mindset shift that I'm going to stop dabbling and I'm going to start dominating and turn pro.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (8:43)

Yeah. Yeah. A thousand true fans, that's relatable for a lot of people. And you could build probably a six figure business off a thousand true fans.

Sean Cannell (8:49)

Yeah, the math is $100 a year, a thousand true fans and you have a whole year to earn that money per fan. That's $100,000.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (8:56)

Yeah. What are some monetization strategies you're recommending people that have maybe a fan base of that size?

Sean Cannell (9:02)

Yeah, I think, I mean the fastest path to making money with social media is to have your own offer. And so I mean if we, if we focus on service providers, which is not really the content creator mentality, but you'd call that like a high margin business. I was just talking to my friend Neil Dhingra here in Vegas who's a loan officer and built a with, with, with social media. He was able to grow his loan business. Now he would Talk about getting 80 views on a video but if it led to one transaction, it could be thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars. So that's going to be your fast. I mean you need 10 true fans if they're $10,000 each to, to earn six figures.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (9:45)

Right.

Sean Cannell (9:45)

Social media. So, so it's kind of like the size of the vehicle. I think what's interesting is if you had some kind of a hundred dollar offer, you know, info products, courses like they kind of get a bad rap. How's AI disrupting it?

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Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (10:10)

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Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (10:29)

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Sean Cannell (11:05)

It also is a great thing if you have something truly valuable and that's like a kind of a lower ticket type of an education offer. You know, it'd be harder to produce some kind of SaaS. But these days with AI you might do micro SaaS of some kind, some kind of an AI offering that's a little bit sophisticated. You also could do services of some kind if you just want to freelance work from home. But I think if you go to a lot of what I recommend for creators to focus on. I really love affiliate marketing. That's how I originally was built, a six figure income. But it takes a lot more viewership. And here's what I mean. Because of my background in video cameras, lenses, lighting, video production, I started to do tech reviews. To this day that's what think media is. And I learned how to rank videos on YouTube, meaning that when somebody would search for a question about what's the best camera for YouTube or should I get the Neewer LED lights or the GVM LED lights, I'd have a video comparing the two and then I would have an affiliate link in the description. And if somebody clicks my affiliate link, I'd make anywhere from 5, 4%, sometimes as much as 10%. I was able to get to a hundred thousand dollars a year as a solo creator making videos, posting those online. But you know, my channel did at that time grew to about 20,000, it was about 20,000 subscribers, about 16,000 subscribers. And I was able to get to 100k just in affiliate marketing, a little bit of YouTube ad rev ad revenue. But from ranking videos, people are searching things or watching my videos, they're clicking my links, they're purchasing tech products. The problem with that is if let's say you started a channel that was about like anti aging, you're talking about skincare, makeup and whatnot. If it's not like high end or it's also not as high volume or as high intent, I think those numbers wouldn't be as reachable. You might need a different vehicle. So it depends what you're doing. If you had a website reviewing software and AI tools, a lot of AI tools software, they have incredible affiliate programs. My friend Pat Flynn early on, I don't know what the numbers are these days, but you take a convertkit, which is an email CRM now called kit. I want to say he got to a place where his reoccurring monthly revenue was like $30,000 as an affiliate.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (13:19)

Wow.

Sean Cannell (13:19)

Because he would educate people how to build email lists, how to use the software, lots of videos and blogs and content and then people would just be signing up for the software based off of like his education. He's going to walk them through it. But that's some real money. So I think studying affiliate marketing, thinking about how that might fit for you, but it's really not one size fits all in the creator economy. It's about reverse engineering. What's your approach going to be? Is it more entertainment? Is it going to be brand deals and sponsorships? Do you need a ton of views and YouTube ad revenue can pay really well or is it going to be a much more niche audience and are you going to find a vehicle like being a real estate agent, a loan officer, maybe network marketing or something and really focus in on a few true fans because if you will the ltv, the lifetime value is higher and your strategic content is leading into that monetization opportunity.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (14:07)

I think the biggest thing, whether it's affiliate or your own product is alignment also because you see creators pushing stuff they don't care about or resonate with too 100%.

Sean Cannell (14:14)

I think that gets into building an actual brand that and a brand that has trust because you could just shill a product for short term money but you're losing trust in the process. And I think what helped me was I had the experience of video production and, and I just got online and told the truth.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (14:32)

Right.

Sean Cannell (14:32)

So I would just talk about and like yeah, I mean this is a budget like it, you get what you pay for but the thing's 100 bucks. I'm in love with it. Like it's, it's not, it's giving, it's going to deliver the same result that these high end studio lights would. But it's accessible to everybody and I mean it's kind of flimsy but you're going to set it up at your house and never move it. So who cares if the stand is. So that's what it is. Like you're just describing what it is. You're being honest and over time you're building your brand. That is a huge mistake people make. I think they go for short term money instead of long term brand because you're maybe trying to pay the bills or just get things working. I don't blame people necessarily because you know early on you're trying to monetize, you're trying to but, but thinking we always make wiser decisions when we don't just base it on like the next few minutes, but we think about the next few years or even decades.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (15:19)

Yeah, 100%. You've mentioned AI a few times now. I'm curious how you're using it. Are you using it for your thumbnails, your titles, your video? Video descriptions?

Sean Cannell (15:26)

Yeah. So I use AI every day, and I use AI in so many ways. You know, what's amazing about Chat GBT is the fact that it truly gets to know you. It has memories. So you can. I use AI for business coaching, like, help me process issues. Because you could just jump into the conversation and. And ChatGPT knows what's going on in your business, maybe knows who works for the business. And I use audio prompts a lot. So I just talk and then, you know, look at the responses and keep the conversation going. And I've had projects and GPT that I've built out for personal health and biohacking. There's been breakthroughs where people are. You can upload your blood work, you can then upload your, you know, your labs as well as verbally where pain is or what your symptoms are. And people are being, you know, cured and finding out medical issues that doctors haven't been able to find for over a decade. AI is finding it in 10 minutes. That's crazy. And then they go in and say, what about this? And they're like, you're right. And then there's, you know, they'll do a surgery. There's a lot of stories of this. So I'm using AI for a lot of things. When I narrow down to content.

Sean Cannell (16:36)

Ideation is a big one. Like, so just coming up with topics themselves. Before you ever design a thumbnail or design come up with a title, the most important thing is the topic. Like, what's the big idea? What's the topic of the video? Another way you could say that is the angle of the video. Like. Like, for example, I just had on Chris Ducker, a friend of mine. He just wrote a book called Long Haul Leader, which is about, like, not burning out, lasting in the long haul. Now, here's my thought. Like, I've studied YouTube so much, I'm like, burnout does all right. But especially in my niche, like, it's kind of played out. I don't know if we could go that direction. So I'm like, what other angles, you know, does that are his expertise? Well, he's also his expert on personal brand. Okay. Personal branding. He's also an expert on entrepreneurship. Okay. Well, my channel, though, is more about YouTube. So should I Go on entrepreneurship. This is all an. Before filming, I'm thinking about the angles, the topic, what, what's like the big idea of the episode that'll actually get views. I also wanted to help him out and have it lead to his book which, like your personal brand will. Will for sure fail if you die. So, you know, kind of jokey, but like long haul leader, not burning out is important. So we, we led there. But where I started was actually what are the new rules for personal branding and you know, going into 2026 and complete framework, because he had all of that. So this was me sitting down. And what I might do is copy a lot of text and just drop it into LLM, like get some resources from him, like throw it in there Claude or ChatGPT. Copy someone's website, screenshot their videos, download the transcripts of his videos to learn quickly what some of his frameworks are, throw those in, then start talking back and forth like, hey, let's brainstorm some angles, then let's brainstorm some titles. Then let's. Then I'm like, okay, and I'll brainstorm four or five to ten titles. And, and, and I know what direction I'm going, but I could use those later. Doesn't mean it's gonna be the final title, but I, I know I could use those later. And then, and then I order the questions. In this case, it's a video podcast and I'm going to have the interview support. Basically a concept and a title that I've predetermined going into the interview. That could all be pivoted, editing in the hook later. But what I've also found is that if you just do a little bit more upfront and by the way, this sounds, I'm sure, like a lot to the average person, but I'm able to, I'm able to do this. If I only had 10 minutes to prepare, I could do this whole process in 10 minutes.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (19:06)

Wow.

Sean Cannell (19:07)

So it's like, shoot, I got to film in 10 minutes. All right, cool. Let me just get some stuff. It's not going to be as good as If I had 30, but, you know, 10 with AI, you could do this really quickly. This is actually kind of a part of. We have a program called Video Ranking Academy, and there's seven steps. And the first two steps in our proprietary process and framework are reverse engineer and research. So these are the two steps I'm talking about. Step three is record. So in reverse engineering research, this is the activities and habits and routines that I'm doing. First and then we get into recording later. And so I've reverse engineered angles, topics, his expertise, taking him to a place where he really has authority. Maybe some good stories on stuff. Of course, still going into it with curiosity for the conversation. And then even some research, some keyword research still going into 2026 still works, still keyword research, because people still search for things. Okay, so it's, it's things are less SEO based in a way. But these days, my friend Neil Patel said it's, it's not search engine optimization, it's search everywhere optimization because the language you use in the keyword phrases, there's still topics like if somebody wants to know what's the best red light therapy, that is a keyword phrase. And people are asking ChatGPT that and videos can show up like they can show up in AI. So, so like knowing SEO, it still matters, but there's no way it's going to get found if you're not fiercely clear on what is the search term or the variations of that search term.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (20:41)

Right.

Sean Cannell (20:42)

You know, I've been like researching a lot of stuff on narcissism, interestingly enough. And so I started learning about DSM 5, narcissism, covert narcissism, borderline personality disorder, all this different stuff. Well, those are, all those are keywords. And, and those are also whole segments of different people's lives that have been affected by those things. And, and so going into, let's say the research, like what and what angle do we want to take it? Those things are actually oftentimes come clustered together, but maybe what's underserved is more like borderline versus and so really having mastery of your topic, I call this your keyword universe. And here's like a free trick for listeners. Take your.

Sean Cannell (21:24)

Your niche and go to ChatGPT or your favorite AI and ask them to, here's the prompt. You'd say, hey, ChatGPT, what are the keywords and keyword phrases and keyword variations related to my core industry and topic? One of the words you'd say are what are the adjacent keywords and phrases? And one of the things you could call this is I want to build my keyword universe. I'll give you an example. So one of my coaching clients, Anthony, is got a roofing company in Snohomish County, Asset roofing, crushing it in roofing and starting to help other.

Sean Cannell (22:04)

Roofers. But contractors and construction individuals build their companies because he can help guys that are especially doing like 1 or 2 or 3 million, like really scale. He's about to hit like 12 plus. And so the thing that's interesting though is as he's moving into content, he's like, okay, what are people searching for? Even if that's not as much how YouTube works, the term still matters, even if it's going to be suggested in the algorithm. So it's not that they would make type this out, but what's their intent, what are they looking for? So on the one hand it's like, okay, roofers, that's sort of a bucket. That's part of his keyword universe. Another one would be service would be construction workers, another ones would be contractors. And so you go on down the list and by the time you build out your keyword universe, there's probably gonna be 30 super relevant terms, another 30 that would be interesting to play in, and then probably a hundred, depending on what industry you're in. These are like little angles on it which way, and then it's sort of an extension of what would the problems specifically be that people are trying to solve for. For.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (23:10)

Right.

Sean Cannell (23:10)

You know, so it's just kind of like layers of depth. And then as a result we, we got a little bit. That's a little bit gangster. Like we went kind of deep there. It's a little bit advanced, but it's like then you take that all the way back to just reverse engineer research that then would become a part of your process. Doing all of that in AI so much greater informs the content you're about to film gives you another level of strategy. And now you're finding, you know, angles to cut through the noise in the sea of sameness that's online right now.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (23:39)

Yeah, I love that you put filming number three, by the way, because a lot of people think that's number one or number two. Maybe some people prep, but they don't do the first thing you said, which is reverse engineer. Yeah, a lot of people don't do that. Right. But that's like the most important part, I think.

Sean Cannell (23:51)

Yeah, I've heard it called pre validation, like pre validating the idea before you even film it. Because you know too you invest money in creating content. If you're going to sit down to film, it's going to take energy, time, research. And if you don't pre validate the idea, then you've wait, you potentially it's maybe you have or haven't wasted the money, but you're just risking it more. Content's always going to be a risk in the sense of like you don't know what's going to hit necessarily. And you thought this would but this other one did. But the more what's amazing is I don't know that people realize you can pre validate you. You almost can predict. You can, you can predict virality. You have a lot of friends, I have a lot of friends that have mastered virality. They print viral videos. We I think media, we print ranked videos, right? We rank videos every day that they and ranked videos a little bit different. Search based is not viral but we post videos that in YouTube scoring are like 10 out of 10. It looks like it failed. You know, it's just it because especially based on our subscriber base is actually in this case very niche. It's not broad appeal but it's a very niche thing. And then that video sits there and it gets views for the next next six months. A lot of times we see videos pop around day 175, maybe a little over 200 days and then they just start climbing and then they climb for the next two, three, four, five years. And then when those videos are connected to affiliate marketing because they talk about a specific product, solve a specific problem, then you have actually just created a passive income asset for your business. You have, you have true passive income. It's, it's funny, I've heard people say passive income doesn't exist. They're wrong.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (25:26)

I've heard that too.

Sean Cannell (25:27)

It's like I promise you I will show you now what I will say is usually those.

Sean Cannell (25:34)

People trying to cut a social media clip are good hearted and trying to speak against people that are kind of like fake gurus pushing over hyping lazy passive income. It's building up the skill set to rank videos and build up you channel YouTube channel and put in the time. I think a lot of people that are experiencing real passive income understand that a lot of upfront work went into creating assets that print residual income. Later anyone who's built a real estate portfolio had to start from scratch. And you're like did you do it for free? It's like no. Like I put a now I'm living off it so I wouldn't overhype it. But passive income is totally real and YouTube is legitimately leveraged because it's a search engine because it's has such a massive audience because even YouTube videos are being indexed and ranked with with key moments and ranked on Google search and being distributed in so many different places. You can make a video once and that video can get you views and make you money for not just weeks, not just Months, but for years to come.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (26:35)

Yeah. What's the most you've seen someone make off one video?

Sean Cannell (26:39)

Well, I mean in terms of like per. I could talk about my personal results. I think I. Maybe my highest paying YouTube video is around $40,000.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (26:49)

Wow.

Sean Cannell (26:49)

Maybe 40 or 40. 40 to $60,000 from. From YouTube ad revenue. That's just ad revenue. Yeah. So a couple million views. Now the, the big thing to know about how much YouTube pays you though is RPM and that's revenue per a thousand views is essentially what the term means. And what happens, especially in a niche like ours, if you look at somebody and they're like, whoa, that dude's getting 10 million views a video on YouTube shorts. Respect. That's massive. But they might make a couple grand. 10 million views. I might make a couple grand off 500,000 views on long form. Because if you're in the what, what's going to pay you more per views is being in industries that advertisers want to pay more for. Serious audiences, older audiences, business audiences. Real estate pays more. Tech pays more.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (27:39)

Health too.

Sean Cannell (27:40)

Health, health, medical.

Sean Cannell (27:43)

And, and it's just this idea too. Think about what are advertisers willing to pay for if they were selling financial products to baby boomers A lot, right? If they could, if they could get leads that are baby boomers that want to invest a couple million dollars at you know, one and a half percent fee, they're going to pay a lot to acquire that customer. And then what is a business going to pay to acquire a customer for fast fashion for you know, average cart value of $33 from you know, targeting Gen Z, just less. It just costs different. So the type of content you put out there can command much higher RPMs. And I'm kind of in the middle with our content. Like we, we get really good numbers. So yeah, I mean maybe 40 to 60 thousand dollars. It's sometimes hard to track the affiliate marketing. I remember one time I talked about the best greens juice powder. I know you like biohacking stuff. This was years ago. If I could get fresh green juice, I would mix this green powder with water, you know, to stay healthy, learn about it from my friend and realize they didn't just have an affiliate program, but they had the program had continuity. So it was kind of like a higher priced product direct to consumer. And to get a bottle of the stuff was maybe like 60 bucks or something. But if you subscribed I also, because you go direct through their affiliate program, you know, Amazon will pay you 4% directly. They paid me 30%. And then if someone subscribed, I got paid every month in perpetuity. And if they stayed for years, then I earned that income. So I made a video that made about a hundred thousand, got a. The video had about close to maybe 200,000 views. It only made about a thousand dollars in YouTube ad revenue, but I made over $20,000 through that one affiliate program, through that one video. Wow. So not my own product. I made one YouTube video, ranked it in search, talking about a product that I personally loved, used and would recommend to my friends, neighbors, and did it in the way that I've learned over the last, you know, 10 plus years on YouTube. So I mean, it was structured, but it was very simple. Just sat in front of a window, filmed the video, basically reviewed a product, talked about it, let the viewer know that if they wanted to check it out, they could click the link in the description and then that was over a couple years. But that video kept getting views over a few years and it made over $20,000 just through the Affil program, probably about 22, 23,000 total combined with ad revenue. One video, and that's, that's on the high end. But that's what I've been obsessed with really for the last decade on YouTube. Because once I. It's kind of like Morpheus told Neo in the Matrix. He's like, nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (30:21)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (30:22)

And I was like, shoot, I can't unsee this, bro. Like, I can, I can see through like the YouTube algorithm, like if you rank videos and connect them to income streams especially. The cool thing about affiliate marketing is it's not your responsibility to do shipping or returns or customer service. Right. So at some point in the sophistication of the creator economy, you probably should create your own, offer some business model. But that's going to make your business more complex. You now essentially have customer service, you have quality control. If you're ethical, you're. You want to take care of people, you keep your product updated. So the nice thing, the leverage of just being able to talk about stuff, yes, in a way it pays less. But if you get good at ranking videos, then you put out a passive income earning asset that is truly making money for you. And you don't have to worry about any of the details after that. You just collect checks.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (31:14)

I've met a decent amount of people making affiliate money off TikTok shop like 6, 7 figures. I wonder if YouTube's going to implement Something like that down the road.

Sean Cannell (31:21)

Yeah. They have YouTube shopping, but nothing is coming close to you to TikTok shop. People are going crazy on that.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (31:28)

Yeah, yeah.

Sean Cannell (31:28)

YouTube shopping is YouTube's platform integrated affiliate program. So you can sign up, qualify once you're a part of the partner program. And Target, Walmart, niche brands, clothing. I want to say there's probably over a hundred thousand retailers, a lot of different retailers. You now have access to all of them. And you can put carousels essentially like product shelves underneath your video. Products are clickable in the video. The videos, they're clickable on YouTube shorts, but also long form. So YouTube shopping is a force to be reckoned with, but it hasn't picked up anywhere close to the momentum of TikTok shop.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:07)

Yeah, they crushed it.

Sean Cannell (32:08)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:08)

I mean, I don't know if anyone, if I know Instagram might be trying to copy that, but I don't see anyone even close to TikTok shop.

Sean Cannell (32:14)

Yep.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:14)

Are you big on Instagram? That's. That's my biggest platform.

Sean Cannell (32:17)

Yeah, I like Instagram. It's, it's. I think it's my favorite platform just to consume, engage dm.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:23)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (32:24)

And, and yeah, a lot of repurposed content, like, similar to how you chop up clips. We have some of that happening, but I will also make native reels and when I sit down and really architect a video intentionally, we've had some pretty good results on Instagram.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:37)

Yeah, it's. It's my favorite for networking.

Sean Cannell (32:39)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:40)

Like for getting guests, getting sponsors.

Sean Cannell (32:41)

That's. Yeah. And yeah, just connecting with people, getting to see what people are doing and stuff.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:45)

Yeah. Shout out to Instagram. But YouTube's going to be my main focus right now. Have you looked into debates at all? Go on.

Sean Cannell (32:52)

What do you mean?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (32:52)

Like, I feel like that's an untapped category right now. I just started host moderating some and they're getting probably 20 times the viewership as my normal podcast interviews.

Sean Cannell (33:01)

So isn't Jubilee a debate?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:03)

Yeah, they do a lot of like one on 20 debates. Yeah. But my thing would be mainly just one on ones, I think, to start. Okay. I don't have the bandwidth to fit 20 people in here.

Sean Cannell (33:13)

Understood. So you would, you would. You'd be the third. But it would be one on one. You bring.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:17)

I'd be moderating. Yeah.

Sean Cannell (33:18)

That's a genius idea.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:19)

It's an untapped category, I think.

Sean Cannell (33:21)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:21)

I mean, I just posted our first three and they got like 100. First one got 300k on YouTube. For me, that's really good.

Sean Cannell (33:27)

What was the topic?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:27)

It was Israel versus Palestine.

Sean Cannell (33:29)

Okay.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:30)

And then I did second One was numerology versus atheist or something. Got like 100k.

Sean Cannell (33:36)

So you are going to curate two experts. Two experts get their buy in. They're always coming physically. Schedule it, film it.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:44)

Yeah, I think that's.

Sean Cannell (33:46)

What have you learned about that so far? Keeping it good. Good faith, like good vibes. You try to throw, you know, some bombs in there, get them debating.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (33:56)

Yeah, I. I want to keep it civil. I don't want. Want it to get physical ever. Obviously. I don't want it to get like too heated.

Sean Cannell (34:00)

But that'll be when. When your show turns into the Jerry Springer Show.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:04)

Yeah, they just canceled. Did you see they canceled. What's his name.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:10)

One of the OGs in podcasting. Bronhair.

Sean Cannell (34:13)

They canceled him. Meaning like the mob did?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:15)

No, no, his show got canceled. Why am I blanking out? SiriusXM.

Sean Cannell (34:20)

Okay.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:20)

$90 million deal. He was getting paid 90 million a year from SiriusXM.

Sean Cannell (34:24)

Geez.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:25)

Damn. I can't. Can't believe I'm blanking out on the name.

Sean Cannell (34:27)

Not like, I mean, if I. All I'm thinking about is like Howard Stern or something.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:30)

Howard Stern.

Sean Cannell (34:31)

Oh, he got canceled.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:31)

Yeah. So his show just got axed. $90 million a year. He was getting paid. Wow, That's a lot, right?

Sean Cannell (34:37)

I guess. Clearly they didn't have the roi, though.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:39)

It wasn't there anymore. Yeah.

Sean Cannell (34:40)

Yeah. For being on serious.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:42)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (34:43)

But yeah, I mean, he, he's got opportunities. Yeah, he'll go independent, obviously. He should also probably be fine if he has a few investments, but that's a decent annual income. But yeah, he could go independent. Just take off.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (34:59)

Yeah, that's where I'm at now. I am looking into the network route. Have you ever looked into that? Yeah.

Sean Cannell (35:04)

Have you found any good ones?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (35:06)

Like starting my own mn, I guess. But yeah, obviously there's the behemoth, like Sirius, Spotify, There's a few big ones.

Sean Cannell (35:13)

But yeah, I think. I don't. I wouldn't call myself an expert. I have friends who have networks. Some have done it in the face space like Church Leadership Networks and things like that. I think, yeah, it's a. It's a cool idea. You know, trying to think about what is the. The business model. I think what is interesting about this is it's been wild to study kind of the creator economy and media over the years and look at a model like buzzfeed or something like that, or some of these different. I'm in no Way number one. I wouldn't consider myself even an expert here or trying to talk you in or out of anything, but, you know, a lot of these companies have been going bankrupt.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (35:50)

Really?

Sean Cannell (35:50)

Didn't Vox go bankrupt like these media companies?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (35:53)

That wouldn't surprise me. I know BuzzFeed had some issues.

Sean Cannell (35:55)

Yeah, they. Yeah, they had issues. Had to restructure. So I think it's. I think what could be interesting is this idea. Like we've. We've been in the journey of trying to figure out the personality thing.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (36:06)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (36:06)

Like the idea of having other creators and personalities. And I know a couple years ago I was like, this just sounds awesome. What could go wrong? I like, look, I'm like, oh, Patrick bet David. It's cool. He's got other personalities coming on. He's building this thing. Oh, look at Daily Wire. Look how they're doing it. Oh, Ben and Candace. Oh, there's getting along. Everyone's happy. And then, you know, fast forward a year or two and you start, you just see that time takes place and you're like, oh, Ben and Candace aren't getting along anymore. And, and then Brett Cooper. And then Jeremy's like, stuff's coming out. And. And if I just sit here neutrally as an observer, I'm like, okay, people are going to be people. What. What is that? What does it look like to do that? Well, what are the lessons? You never necessarily know what everything that's happening behind the story. But I guess that's my thought as I kind of approach it and knowing some networks, is that sometimes there's maybe what. What's the quality control for the show? Is there really on the long tail? Because you're a force to be reckoned with. A list, B list, C list is what's the mix? And I don't know, it'd be interesting to look inside of like barstool Sports. How many shows do they have?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:08)

They're not even profitable.

Sean Cannell (37:10)

So that's.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:10)

They're not profitable. Daily Wire struggling right now. So you are right. There are a lot of networks experiencing.

Sean Cannell (37:14)

So that's. I mean, that sort of like confirms my feeling. That was like, so who's actually like really crushing the business model?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:21)

Dave Ramsey.

Sean Cannell (37:22)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:22)

Yeah. His network's doing well. There's a few others doing. Really?

Sean Cannell (37:25)

Then, yeah. But then you ask yourself, he's his own everything.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:28)

I think a majority of the money is on the back end for him.

Sean Cannell (37:31)

And what I mean, books, Financial Peace University, the financial providers.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:36)

So you need a product tied to the network to make it work. I think.

Sean Cannell (37:38)

And. And he has an empire tied to the network and. Yeah, you're. Yeah, he is in a whole class of his own. Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:43)

I think if it's just off views, it wouldn't work. It's. It's not enough.

Sean Cannell (37:46)

Which it seems what people are trying to do off views and advertising.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:49)

Right.

Sean Cannell (37:49)

And trying to, like, in the. In the feast and famine of that. Did you see the guy who. Is the guy who, like, did a bunch of fraud. Theo Vaughn came out about it.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (37:57)

The.

Sean Cannell (37:58)

Oh, so Theo Vaughn came out.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:01)

Oh, I think I saw this.

Sean Cannell (38:02)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:03)

Yeah. Brendan Schaub got screwed over too. Right.

Sean Cannell (38:05)

And from a guy who started a network and they all.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:07)

Yeah, right. That was an ad sponsorship network. They would bring deals to podcasts. Yeah, I saw that. He ran away with millions.

Sean Cannell (38:13)

Yep. And so it. That's. That's fascinating, too, at, like, Theo Von level.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:17)

Yeah, no, that happens, man. There's not. It's a wild, wild west, the podcast space. Cause it's all this new money. It's a very new industry, to be honest.

Sean Cannell (38:24)

Maybe 20 years. I think it's ripe for innovation, though, because you look at these different media models and you look at Dave and look at the lessons and you look at what's happening. This. It taps into the YouTube thing of MCNs.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:35)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (38:36)

Like, I've been going to VidCon for so many years, and I don't know what year VidCon. I mean, I. I started YouTube in 2007 originally from my church.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (38:42)

Wow.

Sean Cannell (38:42)

It's two years after YouTube started. So then that means I've been on YouTube 18 years, which is wild. Oh, yeah. I'm just gonna be on YouTube in two decades, you know, two years from now. Just to be like, true OG of just observing the space and getting to watch things happen. And I want to say VidCon is probably 15 years old now or maybe a little older. And there was a whole era where MCNs were similar to networks for YouTube channels. Machinima. I remember the Maker Studios. Maker, I believe, was bought by Disney and just different. Like, that's a whole category and it's. It'd actually be interesting. We make some good guests for this show. MCN guys guess like, like, just OG YouTube talk.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (39:25)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (39:26)

Like lessons from. You know. Oh, there's a whole era where you ever, you know, Shay Carl.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (39:32)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (39:32)

Had some drama.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (39:33)

I remember him.

Sean Cannell (39:34)

But he was like one of the investors in Maker, like that whole boom. So you. If you're on the industry floor at VidCon and you're just talking to People just talking about the real, you know, behind the scenes and. And how in some cases, an MCN had, you know, a top couple. Guys are paying all the bills. This is like record labels, you know, are bringing in all the revenue, but then you have other creators and drama behind the scenes, but it's just part of it. I think a lot of that is it sounds like a theme that's consistent in media. So probably the smartest thing to do is to, like, get a ton of wisdom.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (40:08)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (40:08)

And, like, what are the. What are, like, the red flags and yellow flags? What are some things that I could do differently? But I think it is ripe for innovation because the space is insane.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (40:16)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (40:16)

Numbers. Goldman Sachs said the creator economy is going to double between now and 2027 in terms of the total addressable market. The TAM, from about a $250 billion industry to a half a trillion dollar industry. How much money is in the system? So networks make sense and, like, scale makes a lot of sense. But how do you do that? With wisdom.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (40:35)

Right.

Sean Cannell (40:35)

And. And then how do you do it that's sustainable? I think what happened is a lot of people built stuff on bubbles. They built it when ads were a certain thing. To your point, Dave is, like, more resilient because he has a tribe and other products and the long tail. But if you build it on the bubble of ads, there's so much feast or famine in the creator.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (40:53)

Too risky. Yeah. Because then there's always a period where sponsors back out when there's a controversial video on Twitch or something.

Sean Cannell (40:58)

Yep.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (40:59)

Something like that could happen. So if you rely only on sponsorship money, it's too risky.

Sean Cannell (41:03)

Yep.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:03)

You know, but yeah, I need to study why MCN's failed before I go the network route. But the gap I see in the market is there's really talented podcasters, but they just don't have the business savviness. I think finding the good editors, finding brands to work with. You know what I mean? Yep. But they're really good at getting viewership.

Sean Cannell (41:20)

Would you start an agency?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:22)

I heard them. Agencies are stressful.

Sean Cannell (41:25)

Yep. Yeah. Like, it's work.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:28)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (41:29)

And.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:29)

And my whole thing is, like, I want to be happy with what I'm doing. Yeah. I know I could probably make some money with agencies, but do I want to deal with 50 other people's problems with their businesses?

Sean Cannell (41:40)

Yeah. How do you define happiness?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:43)

Do I enjoy the work I'm doing?

Sean Cannell (41:45)

How many hours a week? How many hours a week do you want to work?

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (41:50)

That, to me, doesn't actually matter. Like, Right now I probably work 70, 80 hours, but I never get burnt out because I'm fulfilled. Yeah, I saw Stephen Bar.

Sean Cannell (41:57)

So if you had a bunch of. If you, you were dealing with like headaches and agency work and whatnot, you either don't know that you would hate it or you already know you'd hate it.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:04)

I don't think it'd be fun. Yeah, like we, you and I have a lot of agency friends and they just have nightmare stories of science. You know what I mean?

Sean Cannell (42:10)

Ye.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:11)

You can't control. Like we have full. Not full control, but we have more control.

Sean Cannell (42:16)

The word I'd say is freedom. I think actually one of the words I'd sell for personally is freedom. Right, like to. Freedom to have choices.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:22)

Exactly.

Sean Cannell (42:22)

Freedom to do the work you want to do. Freedom to say yes or no to a brand. Freedom to make whatever video we want to next do next. Freedom to interview.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:30)

Who?

Sean Cannell (42:30)

Whoever you want to interview.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:31)

Exactly. And with the agency stuff, you could do everything you say you're going to do and they'll still be unhappy.

Sean Cannell (42:36)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:36)

So pass on that for now.

Sean Cannell (42:38)

So, so then how would you help these individuals who need to do editing, just more in education, helping them like find and build their own editors.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:46)

My strategy was to sign them for maybe like I would start small, put them on payroll for a month in exchange for X amount of episodes. I would handle all the editing and we would split the sponsorship revenue or the money generated.

Sean Cannell (42:58)

You go boutique.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (42:59)

Yeah, I would start small. I'm not going to go in guns blazing because I think that's risky. But there's a few people in Vegas I think I could get for like 3 to 5k a month and we can see if it works if there's an ROI or not.

Sean Cannell (43:09)

Yeah.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (43:10)

Gotcha.

Sean Cannell (43:10)

You know, you don't want to build the Daily Wire.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (43:12)

Not yet. And we'll see if they're still in business in a few years. It's looking bad for them.

Sean Cannell (43:16)

That's crazy.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (43:17)

Yeah. Well, dude, this has been fun. Where can people learn from you? Get your courses and everything?

Sean Cannell (43:21)

Yeah. You know, I think one thing we. And thank you so much for having me on and shout out to the community if you're still here. Um, I, I updated my book. It's called YouTube Secrets. Wrote it with my friend Benji. The second edition's out and we are giving away free if people just cover shipping. So at yt secrets.com stands for YouTube yt secrets.com you can grab the book for like seven bucks. That's cover shipping. And I'LL ship it to you. And then. And then Sean Cannell on social media. So Sean Cannell lives with YouTube channel. I'm on YouTube and then on YouTube, I subscribe those. If you love listening to podcasts, we've got a podcast called the Think Media Podcast. If you say, man, I want to get to this YouTube thing. Two episodes a week, super focused, helping me start and grow a profitable YouTube channel.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (44:09)

Check them out. Guys, thanks for coming on.

Sean Cannell (44:10)

Thank you.

Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (44:11)

Yep.

Sponsor Voice (44:16)

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Host (possibly a podcast or show host) (44:19)

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