Secrets Behind Building a $1B Crypto Brand | Luca Netz DSH #1210

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Secrets Behind Building a $1B Crypto Brand with Luca Netz (DSH #1210)

Release Date: February 28, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Luca Netz

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Introduction

In this riveting episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes back Luca Netz, a prominent figure in the crypto world known for his trailblazing work with Pudgy Penguins and other successful ventures. The conversation delves deep into the strategies, challenges, and insights that have propelled Luca to build a billion-dollar crypto brand. Skipping ads and non-essential segments, this summary captures the essence of their unfiltered dialogue.

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Crypto Market Insights

The Current Bull Run: A New Era Luca sheds light on the nuances of the ongoing crypto bull run, distinguishing it from previous cycles.

Luca Netz [01:40]: "A weird bull run, but a bull run nonetheless. This might be good. It might be a new era for crypto with the ETFs and things like that."

Unlike the explosive surges of the past, this bull run is characterized by stability and institutional interest, potentially heralding a more sustainable growth phase for cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin Reaches New Heights The resurgence of Bitcoin is a testament to the market's resilience.

Interviewer [01:53]: "Yeah. Bitcoin reclaimed 100k yesterday, right?"

Political Influence on Crypto The intersection of politics and cryptocurrency is also a topic of discussion, with Trump’s pro-crypto stance being highlighted.

Interviewer [01:56]: "Trump seems to be very pro crypto, though."

Luca Netz [01:59]: "Super. Crazy."

Luca acknowledges the potential impact of favorable political moves, such as the introduction of a crypto reserve and tax exemptions, which could significantly influence market dynamics.

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Pudgy Penguins and Brand Strategy

Launch and Vision of Pangu Luca discusses the strategic launch of Pangu, a memetic cultural coin designed to push the boundaries of what tokens can represent in the crypto ecosystem.

Luca Netz [02:45]: "It's very much like a cultural phenomenon. And so, you know, Pengu today is a memetic cultural coin that I think is going to push the boundaries and continue to break barriers within the industry."

Success Metrics Under Luca’s leadership, Pudgy Penguins has achieved remarkable milestones, including significant payouts to NFT holders and a rapidly growing on-chain holder base.

Luca Netz [04:11]: "We gave $1.2 billion to the people. Crazy. Pudgy has always been for the people, by the people."

With over 650,000 on-chain holders within four weeks, Pudgy Penguins stands as one of the most holder-rich tokens in crypto.

Global Community Engagement Luca emphasizes the global reach of Pudgy Penguins, particularly highlighting its strong presence in Asia.

Luca Netz [09:14]: "I'm in Asia. We're just as big in Asia as we are in America. It's pretty fascinating."

This global community foundation has been pivotal in establishing Pudgy Penguins as a universal cultural icon within and beyond the crypto space.

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Community Building and Marketing Strategies

Gifting and Omnipresent Marketing One of the standout strategies Luca employs is extensive gifting, which not only builds goodwill but also ensures pervasive brand presence.

Luca Netz [33:12]: "I can get product in the hands of everyone. I scaled that through Von Dutch."

By sending free products to influencers, venture capitalists, and crypto funds, Luca achieves immense brand exposure with high conversion rates.

Meme Page Content Strategy Pudgy Penguins leverages meme content to generate massive engagement across social platforms.

Luca Netz [36:27]: "I'm probably spending 20 grand a month on gifts and stickers, and I'm getting... 4 billion impressions a month."

This strategy ensures that Pudgy Penguins remains top-of-mind, fostering both community loyalty and attracting new investors.

Building in Public Transparency is a cornerstone of Luca’s approach, as evidenced by the "Building in Public" series on YouTube.

Luca Netz [43:33]: "We documented the whole thing. It's a little like E. Newsy, you know, Bravo TV reality TV show type of thing."

This openness not only builds trust but also showcases the authentic journey of building a crypto brand, including both triumphs and tribulations.

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Personal Insights and Leadership

Overcoming Adversity Luca shares a poignant story of betrayal by a close friend, which transformed into fuel for his drive towards success.

Luca Netz [22:03]: "It's fuel because, you know, I'm... After he did that a couple months later, I realized that like every great story has something like this in the equation."

This personal adversity underscores Luca's resilience and determination, central traits that have contributed to his entrepreneurial success.

Leadership Style: The MJ Mindset Luca draws parallels between his leadership approach and the legendary basketball mindset of Michael Jordan, emphasizing competitiveness and clutch performance.

Luca Netz [27:27]: "I was always confident. I always knew, dude, I knew when I was 15 I was going to be."

This mindset ensures that Pudgy Penguins remains focused on long-term goals, continuously striving to outperform competitors like Dogecoin and Apecoin.

Team Dynamics and Strengths Acknowledging the importance of a strong team, Luca credits his colleagues for complementing his weaknesses.

Luca Netz [16:20]: "Every weakness that one of us has, the other one. It's their strength."

This collaborative environment fosters innovation and ensures that Pudgy Penguins operates seamlessly across various domains.

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Overcoming Challenges

Legal Battles and Stress Management Luca recounts his early struggles, including a significant legal battle that tested his stress tolerance and fortitude.

Luca Netz [47:19]: "I got all the good legal. I got the best legal in my corner."

These challenges fortified Luca's ability to handle pressure, a critical competency for leading a successful crypto venture.

Navigating Crypto Politics The volatile nature of crypto politics posed additional hurdles, but strategic neutrality helped Pudgy Penguins maintain focus.

Luca Netz [18:31]: "Not getting overly political, both within obviously maybe traditional politics and more so crypto politics. Always try to stay neutral."

This approach ensured that Pudgy Penguins could adapt and thrive regardless of external political shifts.

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Future Plans and Vision

Abstract: The Next Big Leap Luca introduces "Abstract," an upcoming Layer 2 solution poised to revolutionize the crypto landscape.

Luca Netz [19:51]: "I think it's going to change everything. This might be one of the biggest bang yet."

With anticipated valuations soaring into the billions, Abstract represents Pudgy Penguins' commitment to continuous innovation and market leadership.

Sustained Growth and Longevity Luca is confident that Pudgy Penguins will surpass competitors like CryptoPunk, leveraging compound interest and strategic initiatives to cement its position.

Luca Netz [41:05]: "I for sure will. That's like the easiest trade in crypto."

This unwavering confidence reflects a well-founded belief in the brand's enduring appeal and strategic direction.

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Conclusion

Luca Netz's journey with Pudgy Penguins illustrates the intricate blend of strategic marketing, community engagement, and personal resilience required to build a billion-dollar crypto brand. From leveraging gifting strategies and meme content to overcoming personal and legal challenges, Luca's insights provide a comprehensive blueprint for aspiring crypto entrepreneurs. As Pudgy Penguins continues to ascend the crypto hierarchy, Luca’s vision and leadership remain pivotal in shaping the future of digital assets.

Notable Quotes:

• Luca Netz [01:40]: "This might be good. It might be a new era for crypto with the ETFs and things like that."
• Luca Netz [04:11]: "We gave $1.2 billion to the people. Crazy. Pudgy has always been for the people, by the people."
• Luca Netz [16:20]: "Every weakness that one of us has, the other one. It's their strength."
• Luca Netz [27:27]: "I was always confident. I always knew, dude, I knew when I was 15 I was going to be."
• Luca Netz [43:33]: "We documented the whole thing. It's a little like E. Newsy, you know, Bravo TV reality TV show type of thing."

For those intrigued by Luca Netz's approach and eager to dive into the Pudgy Penguins ecosystem, follow their official Instagram, Twitter, and other social platforms to engage with the community and explore investment opportunities.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and may not capture all nuances of the full podcast episode.

Transcript

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[Luca Nets]

Of course not. You know, but it's fuel because, you know, after he did that a couple months later, I realized that, like, every great story has something like this in the equation. Just makes it. It just makes the story even greater. Right, Right. Like, everyone knows the forward facing story, the behind the scene story is just as epic, you know, from like literally being broke.

[Interviewer]

All right, guys, got Luca Nets back on the show. It's been a while, my friend.

[Luca Nets]

It's been a while. Two years, huh? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You've been up to a lot in the past two years.

[Luca Nets]

Just a little.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And now it's a crypto bull run, they say, right?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. A weird bull run, but a bull run nonetheless. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What makes this one weird?

[Luca Nets]

That's just the other ones were a lot more explosive, but this one might. This might be good. It might be a new era for crypto with the ETFs and things like that. So I think with a little less explosiveness, maybe a little less nuke edge.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, Bitcoin reclaimed 100k yesterday, right?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Trump seems to be very pro grip, though.

[Luca Nets]

Super.

[Interviewer]

Announcing a crypto reserve, potentially no tax on crypto, which would be nuts.

[Luca Nets]

Crazy.

[Interviewer]

You know, right now it's like 40%, so that'd be huge.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are you. Are you into politics at all? Like.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, I'm. I'm pretty political, but because of my positioning at Pudgy, I'm not really transparent on my political stance.

[Interviewer]

That makes Sense, man. Ripple's pumping. You got any ripple?

[Luca Nets]

I don't, but kudos to those guys.

[Interviewer]

I didn't see that one coming, to be honest.

[Luca Nets]

Me neither.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I always heard it was like the future of banking years ago. I just never took it serious.

[Luca Nets]

They did good with that narrative.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Apparently they make a ton of money. And I think the institutions, they have huge PMF with the institutions.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. You got Pangu that launched. Congrats on the launch.

[Luca Nets]

Appreciate it.

[Interviewer]

What's. What's the plan for that?

[Luca Nets]

I think the thesis is, like, when you look at these mimetic tokens, this idea that mimetic tokens should do nothing and be nothing, I think is such a disservice to the category. And if you understand the pudgy penguin lore and the story, a lot of the mimetic culture that you see today, very much, you know, was originated, you know, through that community and through that culture back that they started in 2021. And then you kind of look at, like, what does Pengu need to be and what does pudgy penguins need to be to kind of take it to the next level? It's very much like a cultural phenomenon. And so, you know, Pengu today is a memetic cultural coin that I think is going to push the boundaries and continue to break barriers within the industry around what I think these type of tokens can ultimately be. And it's predicated on trying to continue to do things in crypto that I think only we can do. And so it's a really interesting position it's in today, one that I think was really necessary for this ecosystem to kind of take that next leg forward. And I think it's going to follow the same path the NFTs has followed over the last couple of years.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I thought the launch was excellent. Most NFTs launch coins and they don't do too well, if we're being honest.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, we gave $1.2 billion to the people. Crazy. Pudgy has always been for the people, by the people. And so not only did we give, I think, six, $700 million to our NFT holders, we gave six, $700 million to a bunch of crypto users both within the Ethereum and the Solana ecosystem. And again, I think it just comes down to the story that we're trying to tell, which is like, I want pudgy penguins and Pengu to be the face of crypto, the mascot of crypto. I think it's this cycle's cultural phenomenon, and it just Seemed like the right way and the right strategy to do it. And so a lot of people are happy. I think we have like 650,000 on chain holders, one of the biggest tokens on chain from a holder base within four weeks. And I'm pretty sure by the by the time 2025 is over, it'll be the biggest onchain holder base in crypto.

[Interviewer]

Incredible. I was watching you on Scott Hill show shout out to Scott and you were saying how you wanted Pudgy to be the face of penguins over overall, not just like a pudgy penguin, but the actual penguin animal.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, there's two facets. Right. Because Pudgy also is a very successful web2business and that web2business is capturing a category around the penguin that I think very few companies are capturing. And so on one side of the spectrum, when people think penguins, I want them to think pudgy penguins. And on the other side of the spectrum in the crypto world, I want when people think culture coins and memetic coins and cultural phenomenons and what is the best animal token within the crypto industry, I want them to think, you know, pudgy penguin. So there's two missions. Those missions really like your favorite startup's growth curve.

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[Luca Nets]

Cross pollinate and help each other in a meaningful way. Right. If Pudgy Penguins is the face of penguins around the world, that transcends into crypto in a super meaningful way. And if, you know, Pudgy Penguins is the face and the mascot of crypto, I think that transcends into, you know, being the face of penguins around the world. So they're very much a yin and yang.

[Interviewer]

It's almost like bridging the two worlds together. Right.

[Luca Nets]

It's the only thing in crypto that has manufactured that bridge. I think there's things in crypto that have bridged that gap in the past, but it was almost like lightning in a bottle. And this is a very different story. It's very much a consistent, steady climb to the right one that was earned and developed and fought for. I took this over at the beginning of the bear market. All odds stacked against us, and we've just been just fighting through, doing what we thought was needed for the industry and for the ecosystem. So I think it's a lot different than everything you've seen in the past in terms of crypto cultural phenomenons. I think Doge and Apecoin were probably the two that we had seen up until this point, but again, I think very different stories in terms of how each of those got there. And obviously, I think Pudgy Penguins is taking. It's more of like an evergreen story, one that isn't just a flash in the pan or a moment in time. You can kind of see it gradually just kind of inching and fighting towards, hopefully, the end destination, which is being number one across many different verticals. So obviously we have a lot to go, a lot to fight for, a lot to continue to grind towards. But I'm really excited to be in the position that we're in today. And I think the ecosystem and the community and the business has never been in a better position. And I think that only creates more leverage and more opportunity for us.

[Interviewer]

I love it. And you got holders everywhere, not just the U.S. you recently just went to Asia, right?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, it's a family, dude. I can go to any country, any city around the world and have a place to stay.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy.

[Luca Nets]

It's insane.

[Interviewer]

So you're staying at Holder's Houses?

[Luca Nets]

I'm not staying at Holder's Houses, but I'm saying if I wanted to, I could. Yeah, right. Like, there isn't a place that I can't go and have dinner and hang out with people. It's A pretty crazy ecosystem, to say the least. And it's one that I'm super grateful for. You know, that's the beauty of the pudgy. I say this all the time and most people, you know, I said this years ago, but the pudgy community is so much more different because of the nature of the ip. Right. And the reason being is it's less of a demographic and more of a psychographic. And so the psychographic around people who wear the pudgy penguin NFT and participate within the pudgy penguin ecosystem, it is a very wholesome, kind, funny, wholehearted, advanced, sophisticated. It's just like you don't have these weird people that I think some of these communities have. Obviously there's always an anomaly and there's always an outlier, but the sum of the pudgy penguin community is really everything for everyone, right? You have community for elite traders, you have women in the community, a vast majority of women, I think probably the highest concentration in an ecosystem of women, I think in crypto.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

And you have 15 year olds, you have 60 year olds, you have people in Asia, you have people in America, you know, people from all walks of lives in different professions. And that is predicated around the universal nature of the ip. So one of the things that made me really excited about pudgy penguins was that it was so universal, right. Like everyone can identify with it, anyone can resonate with it. And thus the TAM for demand is boundless. Right? There's, there's almost like no handicap in terms of the Tamil. You know, you could argue at one point with bored apes, there was a certain demographic and psychographic of people that just didn't resonate with that as amazing of a master class that was. You know, it was, there was always a ceiling on the TAM in regards to where I thought that could go. Doge maybe less so. But yeah, I think it's really fascinating. So to your point, yeah, I'm in Asia. We're just as big in Asia as we are in America. It's pretty fascinating. I can bring, I can bring more people out at an event in Singapore than I think I can anywhere else in the world.

[Interviewer]

Damn.

[Luca Nets]

For sure.

[Interviewer]

That's impressive.

[Luca Nets]

And so it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's an amazing. I didn't, I, you know, you were around when I was thinking about buying it, when I started to buy it. You couldn't have seen this was in the upper percentile of what could have happened. But now we're in A pocket that I think is a generational pocket. So now it's like we got here not by luck. I mean, this is very much, I think, the opposite of luck. This was like the epitome of success in crypto via hard work. No one, I think, can say otherwise. I think that social consensus within the industry. But, yeah, we got a lot further to go.

[Interviewer]

I still remember your tweet offering to buy the company, which, by the way, was Twitter back then. And you bought the company off Twitter, which is a crazy story. You tweeted out your offer, right?

[Luca Nets]

Unconsciously, yeah. And if I didn't tweet it, I would have never got it.

[Interviewer]

Crazy, because he wouldn't have known.

[Luca Nets]

He wouldn't have known, and it wasn't even him who knew. He disregarded it. He thought it was a bluff. I turned out I was on a boat with one of his childhood friends a couple weeks prior, via Luke. I never go on boats. I'm an introvert. You know that a little bit about me. I stay in the house, so probably the third or. I've only been on a boat. I live in Miami, so in the four years I've lived in Miami, I've probably been on a boat three or four times. One time. One of the three or four times I was on a boat, I was with Cole's childhood best friend. There was eight people on a boat. So, like, the odds of that are quite literally one in billions. And he saw. He saw my tweet and told Cole that I. That this was serious. And if I had inquired and Cole said no, I thought he was bluffing. And then Cole picked me, and then that started the conversation, and probably one of maybe four or five pieces that I think are just, like, so universally aligned.

[Interviewer]

That is crazy. Yeah, I know you're a massive introvert, but I've seen you toggle it, too.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, no, I can toggle it. I just. When I toggle it to the extrovert side, I've got a clock on it, right. And I can dig deep and I can expand that clock, but I burn out big time. So when I do the conference tours and all that, once I'm back home, I'm out for three or four days.

[Interviewer]

Facts. Yeah. When I go to a conference, dude, I'm more tired from a conference than basketball.

[Luca Nets]

All day. Like, all day close.

[Interviewer]

Like, it's crazy.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I could do the most insane lift at the gym. I'll be more tired doing five podcasts in a row than for sure. And lifting. Yeah, it's an introvert thing. Right. Have you always been that way, you think?

[Luca Nets]

Always been that way. I didn't really realize it until. Until like, you know, since Pudgy, but. And I'm shaking hands and kissing babies and doing the whole thing, you know, so. And you got to show these people respect, you know, I think like one of the big things in crypto is none of these founders show the supporters any respect. It's fascinating because you, cause you. They're so pivotal to your success. And so like, not only do I am I showing up, I'm trying my best to leave the ultimate impression. Right. And, and I'm so, you know, you're, you're. I'm digging deep. People don't realize it, but I'm digging deep.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel that crypto overall has a lot of introverts, especially the people at the top of crypto. Yeah, there must be something. There must be, you know, because every single person I know that's really baller in crypto is an introvert because it's.

[Luca Nets]

A critical thinking business. It is a business that is so predicated off of decision making more than anything. And I think maybe I'm just speaking out loud to that point. Maybe like, I think the most important thing I do in my job outside of the community building and the championing is the critical thinking and the decision making. And one mistake in crypto is fatal. And so, you know, you very much have to be in your thoughts, running scenarios all the time. And I think that's probably really well suited for an introvert.

[Interviewer]

Right. Does that ever get to you? Do you get in your own head about that?

[Luca Nets]

No, because I've got a really good group. I mean, ultimately, dude, the success that you're seeing today is like, I play a role, obviously, but my team, you know, Peter, Lorenzo, Vedant, these guys are. I mean, it's. I don't really want to build a business. If I were to go build another business for some reason, which I won't, but I wouldn't want to build a business with any other people. This is my crew. This is my, you know, it's a once in a lifetime crew. Every weakness that one of us has, the other one. It's their strength.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

So there's like, we're covered on like every base, you know, from the technology side of the creative to the strategy to the operations, you know, to the championing and leadership. Every single weakness that if I have a weakness, somebody else on the, on that of those four guys supplements that weakness.

[Interviewer]

So you've identified your weaknesses.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, totally. A long time ago.

[Interviewer]

That's important, right? For business owners.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

A lot of people never take time to reflect on what they're good, what they're bad at.

[Luca Nets]

I mean, dude, I made my whole career. I never owned 100% of anything. I think we talked about this on the last podcast. I never owned 100% of anything. Cause I know what I'm not good at. And so like, why I'd rather have a smaller percentage of a bigger piece then and. And a better lifestyle to the do to a degree, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Than try to go and take everything myself. Because I know what I'm not good at.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. You mentioned pivotal decisions earlier. What are some that stand out to you? For Pudgy Penguins, where it was like a make or break kind of moment.

[Luca Nets]

Licensing the NFT IP from the holders to make the products. So every product that you see on shelf in Walmart, Target and everywhere else is actually an NFT held from the holder. The symbolism around that I think was really important at that time because it was a really an extractive industry. And here we came, the little guy. And we kind of also reinvented the IP business too. We didn't really intentionally do that. But this idea that first edition collectors can be participants and not every single person within your brand ecosystem is just a consumer. Right. So in this case, if you're a Pudgy Penguin NFT holder, you have the opportunity to participate in the growth of the brand, whether it's the products or the characters. And we license that from you and we give you a royalty in perpetuity. That was a really big decision. The toy deal and us getting and starting those physical products was big. Doing that at that time was big. Not getting overly political, both within obviously maybe traditional politics and more so crypto politics. Always try to stay neutral.

[Interviewer]

A lot of crypto politics.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. Just no need to be a drama queen. I think that's probably like an evergreen decision. The idea to do that Penguin, clearly.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

They just changed everything. The ecosystem in 2024, I felt like was getting a little boring and unpredictable. So I ended the year with the most unpredictable bang and thing you could possibly do. Change the dynamic. And everyone knew we would be. We've been a leader in the space for the last couple of last 14 months. Everyone, you know, we were a top three NFT project for the last 14 months. But it just seemed clear that, you know, we had to do something exciting and crypto native. And so Penguin was a huge decision Abstract the way that all of this is tying together. So we have an L2 called Abstract. I think it's going to change everything. This might be one of the biggest. This might be the biggest bang yet. How I'm envisioning it, obviously it has to follow that vision, but I think that's going to be huge. That decision to acquire frame and bring that team in Cygar and crew group of Chads, that was just such a genius decision. Um, we could have raised a monster round. We could have raised a 10 figure round and we didn't. I think that was a good decision.

[Interviewer]

10 figures, when was that?

[Luca Nets]

Recently. But we, all of our. We've only raised. And it's via safe. This is our business.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

You know what I mean? No one sits on the cab table. No one tells me anything. To raise the. At the 10 figure evaluation we would have given up board seats and things like that. And I know myself well enough once I sort of. Once I go down that rabbit hole, like the raise has to be so monstrous and has to capitalize the business so well. And this was a good one. But like I need hundreds of millions of dollars, not a hundred, you know, to do that because then the trade off is worth it. The trade off in the sense that like if I have to answer to people, it's worth answering to people or having people chime in if there's an excess amount of capital to push the boundary so far. So that's an interesting one.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. So we've got that probably, you know, these aren't decisions that I made, but one of our business partners fucked us.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, we talked about that.

[Luca Nets]

You know about that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Did you ever go public with that story?

[Luca Nets]

No.

[Interviewer]

Wow. That. That takes a big person to like not like, you know.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, no, it's not needed. But look at it now. How crazy is that now?

[Interviewer]

Oh, he's probably pissed.

[Luca Nets]

Generational, wealthy fumbled.

[Interviewer]

He's pissed all over. What was it, 100k or something?

[Luca Nets]

A million bucks. Oh, a million bucks made A million bucks.

[Interviewer]

But a million is not a million what it used to be though.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. His equity probably be worth a hundred right now.

[Interviewer]

Holy crap.

[Luca Nets]

You know he would have had some.

[Interviewer]

Has he contacted you?

[Luca Nets]

No, no, he knows. He knows not to, but doesn't matter, right. Because you don't know how hard that was for me at the time. I mean he took 20% of my balance sheet.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

And it was one of my best friends.

[Interviewer]

I know you were really hurt at the time about that.

[Luca Nets]

I remember I told him I literally Pleaded with him not to do it. And he was ruthless about it. And he quite literally fumbled hundreds of millions of dollars. What a story.

[Interviewer]

And he has to live with that too.

[Luca Nets]

Oh, and he will. And he will, trust me.

[Interviewer]

Do you hold grudges?

[Luca Nets]

I hold fuel. So like, even with this launch, I thought about him every day. Because it's not that it's a grudge. Like, what am I going to do? Beat the kid up? Like, that's not like, you know, or like get mad or call him mean names. Like, of course not, you know, but it's fuel because, you know, I. After he did that a couple months later, I realized that like every great story has something like this in the, in the equation. Just makes it, it just makes the story even greater. Right, right. Like, everyone knows the forward facing story, the behind the scenes story is just as epic, you know, from like literally being broke on our last dollar to like raising that round out of like hell, quite literally hell in the Black swan events that we got to like a month later, my. One of my best friends trying to whoop me for a million bucks. It was 1.5, you know, 1.5, but after taxes and everything. So it was. Yeah. And so it's just fuel because I'm just like thinking to myself, like, if we pull this off, I know how he's, you know, success. And the, the moral of that story is success is the greatest revenge. It always is facts. It always, it always is, dude, every girlfriend who's cheated on me, every, you know, whatever. It's just like, dude, you know, partners who backstab you, friends who betray you, I mean, just like, there's nothing for me to tell them. You know what I mean? And sure know. So it's fuel. It's motivation for me to push forward and to go really hard.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

And, and yeah.

[Interviewer]

So yeah, I think as entrepreneurs, you, you need that chip on your shoulder. I remember when you were first raising your money, you got a lot of denials from VCs and you had a massive chip because you saw these other projects raising millions and you felt like you could have done that. But I think as entrepreneurs, it helps you in the long run having that chip.

[Luca Nets]

The chip is the, is my fuel, dude. It's the most powerful fuel for me. And there's a little bit of a deeper story with that chip for me because like goes down to like childhood trauma.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Like, I always, I always was the kid with the least, you know, so I was always trying to, you know, I couldn't fight my Way to proving anyone wrong when you're 12 or 14 or 16, you know. So being in the position that I'm in today, I can control the chip. Right. The chip can be, I can make people rue that. So it's, it's not the purest fuel. There's a bit, there's a better fuel than that, but it's probably the second most powerful fuel. The first most powerful fuel is probably like overwhelming purpose. Right. And there's a. That exists within me, but the one that really gets me to like the one that puts me into Overdrive is the 200, 300 VCs that told me no. And they deployed capital and every other nft. It's every NFT fund who went to go buy a bunch of art.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

You know, they had $100 million NFT fund and they bought a bunch of art and crypto punks and they just got, you know, and then, you know, and then I'm competing on behalf of, you know, a fund, you know, my friend Spencer's funds. All penguins basically. And so I'm competing on his behalf against them. And he just mopped the floor with all those crypto punk funds by a Texas mile. It's not even close. Yeah. A thousand X. He outperformed them.

[Interviewer]

Crazy.

[Luca Nets]

You know, so, so, you know, or this partner and friend of mine screwing me in the worst way, the most ruthless way possible, most heartless way possible. Truthfully, you know, that, that, that gets you going if that can't get you going. Because I'm also a sports fanatic. I grew up playing sports. I love watching sports. All I know is winning. All I know is competition. As I get older, I will mature out of that. I know I will. But I'm 26. I should be in the league. Me and you should be in the league right now. So this is basketball for me. This is soccer for me. This is just like, dude, you know, I'm here to make every person who's ever listened to me, who didn't believe, who counted us out, who placed their bets elsewhere. I wanted to make them all feel stupid. And as long as I'm at the helm of this company, yeah, there might be ups and downs and I can't control what happens in the short term, but on a year over year basis, I will make them all feel stupid. And that's been the case up until this point. Everyone who passed on that seed round feels stupid. There wasn't a better seed round in the bear market than this. And if that doesn't reign true, that will reign true very shortly. There wasn't a better NFT investment in the bear market than this. History can only tell. But there won't be a better blue chip culture token meme token investment than this. Right. History doesn't repeat itself. But. But it rhymes and it will continue to rhyme as long as I'm. I'm at the helm of this.

[Interviewer]

I love it. I love that confidence, man. That comes with success. Right? Or were you always this confident?

[Luca Nets]

I was always this confident. I always knew, dude. I knew when I was 15 I was going to be. I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was, dude. I knew. I knew. And, and obviously as I continue as I at this point, I'm. I'm like three for three, four for four, you know, so like, I can't. I. It's like, it's like, at what point, like, if Michael Jordan keeps winning championships, like, and Michael Jordan, you know, and Kobe keeps winning chips, and he's sitting here and saying that he's not the best and something's wrong.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Right. So I was always confident, but I wasn't always vocally confident because I'm also really pragmatic, like my word and the things that come out of my mouth. It's really important that, that I don't rue the day that I got on this podcast and was this confident. Right. But at this point, like, the data is supporting my confidence so well.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

That it's like, yeah, you can say what you want, dude, but at the end of the day, I'm four for four. Right. I did the influencer monetization stuff. I was one of the pioneers of that. You know that.

[Interviewer]

That's how we met.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. Like, no one was really doing that. I could have done that way better. In hindsight, obviously, I didn't know what I. I mean, I could have been doing Mr. B. I could have been at the know, I could have won't talk about that. But that was a huge win. No one did that. No one was doing that. Von Dutch. I mean, that was humongous when I brought that back. Gel Blaster. Right? And then this, and then this has many wins within it, right? The NFT is a win. The token is a win. The brand is a win. These are very much independent businesses of themselves. Like, they are very much their own Goliath, you know, they are not one in the same. They are. And they, they, they, again, they, they cross pollinate. But you know, like the web3 success is its own beast with its Own team, you know, and then the brand success, its own beast with its own team. So, you know, at this point it's just like, I know I'm going to be one of the greatest here. And, and if people, you know, and, and, and people not believing that even today after, after the track record is fine with me because that's just more fuel.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. You've done in so many verticals. I think only 4% of businesses get to a million in revenue. You've done that multiple times. At this point, it's not luck. Like, what do you attribute you succeeding multiple different industries to?

[Luca Nets]

I'm. I think it's one of that, that back to that mindset that I told you we talked about five minutes ago, which was I put pieces together influencer monetization business. I was just one, I was one cog. I was the glue to the influencer, to the fulfillment, to the factory. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

I was the, I just put it together with Von Dutch, maybe that was, you know, Von Dutch had a great brand, a great logo, great quality products, you know, and I came in and put what I did best, which is, you know, put the pieces of the influencers and the celebrities and the marketing machine together. Gel blaster, same thing. Like, I'm not an inventor. I'm not a product. You know, I, I was just the machine, the marketing machine to it. So I think it's probably this consciousness, this, this true consciousness of like what I know I'm good at. Right. And like not pretending that I'm something that I'm not and not being greedy and really just understanding that I'm in the, I'm in the business of putting wins on the board. Right. And not trying to squeeze the most out of any single grape back to like a team. It's a, you know, and, and me being competitive, this is, I treat this like a team. Like, Kobe doesn't win chips without Shaq. And Derek Fisher and Ron Artest and the rest of the crew, MJ and Pippin. And it's evidently clear to me that this stuff is predicated on team. And so I think I'm super. I've spent a lot of time working on my consciousness and self reflecting and understanding who I am, you know, what my personality is, what my faults are, what my strengths are. And so I probably would attribute a lot of my success to that. Now I think I have a really deep understanding of marketing. That's my superpower.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Luca Nets]

Where do I come into the equation and where do I provide that Hyper proprietary edge. Prior to Pudgy Penguins, it was marketing. Post Pudgy Penguins, it's marketing and community building. I don't think too. I don't think anyone can do those two things in crypto better than me. And so I think that kind of. I think those things, but I think it starts with just understanding what I am and who I am and then being able to put the pieces together and being able to communicate and inspire somebody to take that leap of faith to come and join this. Right. Like even Peter for Pudgy, he was really on the fence for a long time. Even for the first year, he wasn't really both feet in, but it was my ability to kind of lead and communicate to him and bring him in. And Peter's one of the most important people in the company. There isn't four people more important than the company, than Peter. He runs the entire creative. As a creative business. You could argue is probably the most. For Pudgy Penguins, you could argue he's the most important person.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

Truthfully. Right. I mean, you know, yeah. Maybe you could argue me and then me and him. Right. In that respect, because creative is so important. But I can't even say that all four of them are so important, this business. So it's just that understanding. Right. That consciousness. I encourage all entrepreneurs to understand that. Right. I just. I'm not in the business doing 100% of anything, so.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. A lot of entrepreneurs try to micromanage. They try to do every single thing. And I think we all start that way and then you're able to kind of see the bigger picture from there and branch off. There's two marketing strategies I want to talk about that you do so well. The first one is the gifting list. I saw you talk about this on Scott show, and I feel like that is something not a lot of people do. You have one of the biggest gifting lists in the world.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. One of the best in the world.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

I can get product in the hands of everyone. I scaled that through Von Dutch. So I was with the full send crew for a while. Jesse has some interesting people that we send stuff to. Von Dutch is when I got the craziest list, though. Right. And then obviously some of the supreme Patty stuff and that early influencer monetization and then Gel blasters. Just like people love free stuff. So I got. All of my friends are within arm's reach of everyone. There isn't a person I can't get something to if I want to get something to them. And there's something about that omnipresence one. It puts a good taste in people's mouth. Right. Because people love free stuff, no matter what you send. I love when people send me free stuff.

[Interviewer]

No matter how much money I have, I'll always love something for free.

[Luca Nets]

I'll always love something for free. It's great. And then if the product is good or has some sort of meaningful value, there's some sort of conversion there. Conversion is usually small, 5, 10%, but they place it somewhere in some piece of content. So it's just like omnipresent marketing. And in crypto, our edges, one of our edges is the physical. Because everyone's living in digital LA land and it's like, yeah, ready? Player one's probably a real probable future, but we're like 30, 40 years away from that truly being the case. Right?

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Luca Nets]

And so, you know, you still gotta meet people in the real world and that's where the products just crush. So, you know, not only now is it gifting to celebrities and influencers, but now I'm sending it to venture capitalists, to hedge funds, to liquid funds.

[Interviewer]

Smart.

[Luca Nets]

Right? There isn't like a liquid fund. That there isn't. So many of these guys have just penguins everywhere. Every major office of every major crypto company, Uniswap's office is covered in them. Monad, you know, everything.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And it's so relatable. Like anyone, any age, any gender, cute.

[Luca Nets]

Great penguin. It's great product. It's great product. You know, I love it. They just, they keep it at some of the kind collectibles they keep in the office. You know, some they take home and give to a family member. Everyone loves Pudgy. That's why this thing is not going to lose again. I can't control what happens in the short term. But you think you're going to beat this beast over a long period of time? I know. We take doge. I promise you we will. At one point, I don't know when. Right. Could be two years, could be one year, it could be five years. Doesn't matter. As long as I'm at the helm doing this, that compounding, it's like compound interest. You just can't beat compound interest at a certain scale. Yeah, you know.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. When you study the top retail brands, you notice all of them have that emotional connection with the product or service. Right. And you guys have done phenomenal with that.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But yeah, the mailing list, that's an underrated marketing tactic. I remember getting stuff from prime when they started Feastables. And, you know, people make videos, they get millions of views, and you. You spent like 20 bucks sending them something. You know, it's such a good method for marketing, especially if you're like guerrilla marketing.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The next one I want to talk about is the meme page content strategy. You guys are getting 40 million views a month right off the videos that Pudgy penguins. The male and the female penguin.

[Luca Nets]

Oh, on. On Instagram.

[Interviewer]

On Instagram.

[Luca Nets]

It depends what month. Some month it can be 500 million views. Some months it can be 100 million views. Yeah, that does pretty well, actually, to. Because I think it's more of an interest. One's unbeknownst to most is probably the gifts and the stickers really clock in 300 million impressions a day.

[Interviewer]

Holy crap.

[Luca Nets]

On stickers and gifts. You could pull it up on Giphy on the chart.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, my editors have used those. Without my discretion on the.

[Luca Nets]

On the clips, it's a complete clinic. And if I. I never said this before, but I'll give you the alpha. I'm probably spending 20 grand a month on gifts and stickers, and I'm getting. Call it 4 billion impressions a month.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

So you just do the math on that cpm.

[Interviewer]

That's the best CPM I've ever heard of.

[Luca Nets]

All time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Now, the problem is it's not a direct conversion, so no one does it.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

Right. But in my business, it's a direct conversion because girlfriend sends pudgy penguin gif to whale. Whale's like, what whale goes, Puts a million bucks on Pengu or a million bucks on pudgy penguin NFTs. There's a huge conversion.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

I paid a tweet five months ago. That mean that's why these meme coin folks, I'm really going to pioneer this space, I promise. Because I said five months ago I was like, the best. If you're a meme coin, the number one thing you should be doing is gifts and stickers. None of them are doing it. Like, you guys are schmucks. That's why. That's why I'm happy to be in this category. Because I'm like, it's the same. This penguin in the meme category is the same thing I thought about when I took over pudgy penguins in the NFT category. I'm like, you guys are doing nothing and the obvious things you're not doing. And so I'm just going to come in and mop and mop the floor and just Take it all, take all the market share from you and just lead. Because this idea that stagnant non sentient things are going to lose or are going to beat proactive omnipresence, sentient memetic proliferation, just not going to happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

You know, like you have one thing, right? Like let's use Doge as reference. Like Doge's cultural mimetic relevancy was in 2013, 2014. Its peak financial relevancy was in 2021. Maybe it has more financial relevancy this cycle and peaks even more, we don't know. But the point of the matter is, outside of the community, that pushes the Doge meme and the indexing of the meme that's already embedded into Internet culture, that is a dwindling metric, right? So Doge inflates $5 million a day and then its relevancy dwindles every day in some capacity with occasional spikes. But that's a separating, that's a gap. That's a separating gap that's not creating. While on the other hand, I am every day I'm more views at Pudgy, more initiatives. You know, I'll have a movie one day, I have a TV show one day, I'll have games one day, you know, so I'm just climbing the chart of relevancy. Right. And here you have. So it's just like it's a matter of when, not if. Because that gap widening through the top memetic coins like Sheba and Doge. Yeah, that has some sort of moat. And crypto has this thing with dyno tokens where it kind of just indexes for a long time, which is like so fascinating to me. But like I will have a more explosive peak than Doge because the force is too powerful. It's just too, it's too, it's too explosive. And this line of thought is not theory. Right. Like, I'm not theorizing this to you just look at Pudgy Penguin's success on the NFT side. But it was driven through the same line of thought, right? Through the same assessment and through the same thought process. That's how we succeeded and that's how. And that's how we got here, and that's how we'll continue to get to where we need to be. But the Pengu side is the same thing as the Pudgy. It's the same. You know, one just has way deeper liquidity and an easier barrier at entry and one's maybe more of a digital identity and veblen you know, status symbol within the crypto space. But it's the, it's the same principle and it's going to follow the same path.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. Yeah. Because when you first inherited the company was pudgy. Even top Hunter on the NFT charts.

[Luca Nets]

60.

[Interviewer]

It was number 60 and now it's number two, right?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. Oh, it was. Oh. In terms of floor price, I don't know, 60 all time volume. Now it's seven all time volume, volume. And now it's two only behind CryptoPunk. And when I took it over, I don't know. Yeah, probably between 50 and 100 times a floor price. I mean, everything was above 1 8th floor and I bought it when it was at 0.8. Crazy, dude.

[Interviewer]

That's nuts. You've been climbing the leaderboard, so you might even pass Punks this year.

[Luca Nets]

I for sure will. That's like the easiest trade in crypto.

[Interviewer]

I love the confidence, man.

[Luca Nets]

I mean, I could have flipped Punks on if I, if I held Pangu a little longer. Thing is, we have abstract and the way that abstract's kind of structured with what I think it's going to do. The FDVs on something like abstract are ginormous. So Pengu is a really high liquid float. Basically. There's very little unlocks. So what you see is what you get. Typically chains, because they're incredibly expensive to sustain and there's a lot of moving parts with the ecosystem and things like that tend to be lower, float higher fdv.

[Interviewer]

So I've seen that. Yeah, a lot of unlocks. Right.

[Luca Nets]

So, yeah, so the, the initial opening price will be, I think, higher in terms of like, If Pengu is 3 1/2 billion dollars a day, you know, abstract could be 5 billion, $10 billion. I mean, there's vaporware chains that are launched, we're going to put on. It's going to be a spectacular masterclass. By the time this launches, it's probably live.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

It's going to be so different than what anybody else is doing. So I think in that respect, you know, there's, you know that that thing is going to be worth, you know, probably coming out the gates, 5, 10 billion bucks.

[Interviewer]

So it's been fun watching your journey, dude, and I love how you're documenting it as well.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, I documented the whole thing. Can you believe that? And people thought I was nuts. You know what I never got is like a lot of people faded who knew me, and I was like, well, did you really think I was gonna spend two and a Half million dollars and document this thing publicly and not smash it out of the park. I mean, I would have because I basically put myself in a situation where if I failed, I would have looked like a schmuck.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

I literally forced the success for that reason because I knew I knew myself. I knew myself and I knew I was like, there's so much on the line here that I might as well just put it like really all in the line line, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

And so for those who are not familiar. Those are listening. We have a series on YouTube called Building In Public. We documented the whole thing. It's a little like E. Newsy, you know, Bravo TV reality TV show type of thing. But. And there's a lot of the nitty gritty, like hard things you don't see in there. But there'll be a movie. We have all that footage. So I love it. Ten years from now, you'll see the real. You'll see that. You'll see that kid. You'll see that kid screwing us. Yeah, you'll see all that.

[Interviewer]

I love that you post the low moments on there. Cuz that doesn't get showcased on social media ever.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know the low moments of business. There's a lot of them. Every time you think you're in the clear, something pops up.

[Luca Nets]

Something.

[Interviewer]

Dude, it's crazy.

[Luca Nets]

It's insane.

[Interviewer]

It's like inevitable at this point.

[Luca Nets]

I just accepted it because I'm numb to it now.

[Interviewer]

You're numb to it?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, because I say it all the time. Like, what is the number one thing to be a successful entrepreneur? It's probably stress tolerance for that exact reason.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

A lot of people fold under stress. You know what I mean? They just have nervous breakdowns and they, they like, they just break under it. To be in the position of like leadership on a company that is seeing huge success, you need to be incredibly stress tolerant. Because if you break and fold under pressure, that will not be good for you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I agree. The first time I was faced with some pressure, I folded so bad, dude. First lawsuit ever and I just folded. I like stayed in my bed for like a month.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I had to get past that to become an entrepreneur.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know that first lawsuit's always the scariest.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, I remember that. I remember mine.

[Interviewer]

What was yours about? Can you talk about it?

[Luca Nets]

It was the, the Ball harbor house guy sued me. It wasn't a business. It was, it was kind of business because Patty and them were breaking the house. Remember that big house? We, we had the biggest house In Ball harbor in Miami. You've been there?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I think block to block. We bald there.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, we balled there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Ginormous. 10 bedroom mansion. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I busted your ass over there.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, you did. Mancini were really cooking. Cook and roll.

[Interviewer]

We got that chemistry.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. But Patty and them were breaking the house.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

So at the time, it was like an $89 million house, but now it's like a fit. Like a 30, $40 million house. Insane. Yeah. Miami skyrocketed, but they were breaking the house. And the landlord's kids watched us and told the landlord, like, ah, let's bring Maddie's in her house. And he's like breaking doors and shit. And so he, I. He basically came to the house. I mean, this guy was the epitome of evil. No, no, I'm serious. I would. This guy, this guy was so evil. I was, you know, 18. Just came into this money and he just took advantage of us so bad. He said he would throw us in jail, he'd sue us for everything. He forced me to stay in the house and I had to pay him like 5, 600 grand. I wrote him a check right then and there. Two months later, he's then moving us out. The cops were in front of our house every single day. They were targeting us. You know, Ball Harbor. Ball harbor is like the, the, you know, they've got like, Bal harbor is a little island in Miami and they've got like a. Literally like 50 police cars for like 500 homes.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

And these guys were just literally harassing us on behalf of the landlord because it's just like this small community, super Jewish community. Right. Like, so, like, you know, he ran like the synagogue and he was able, you know, it all, like just ran the show, connections and, and he sued us. And the dude just bullied me so hard. He broke me, dude. He. He broke me. But I learned so much, so I'm glad that it happened. And, but yeah, I remember mine. I was. I was soggy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Tough times, man. Yeah, you need good legal these days, especially now, because you're a target.

[Luca Nets]

I got all the good legal. I got the best legal in my corner.

[Interviewer]

Oh, especially in your space. The US Hates crypto.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, not anymore. Trump will fix that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But I remember they went after every U.S. exchange under Biden.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Crazy. You know, Uniswap. All of them made it tough. You had a tough battle, my friend. That's why you got my respect. Because the odds were stacked so against you for this company.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, almost everyone probably doubted you. Even family and close friends, I bet.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. Everyone thought I was nuts. Yeah, but how are you going to make money on this? Why would you build a real brand and spend two and a half million like the Penguin, you know?

[Interviewer]

And they removed fees.

[Luca Nets]

Right.

[Interviewer]

When you bought it too.

[Luca Nets]

That's how all royalties went to zero.

[Interviewer]

Right. That's how NFTs were surviving at the time.

[Luca Nets]

Think about the beat that I got. I raised two. I put two and a half million into it. Put another 500 GS into it. No one was getting paid for the first year. Pretty much royalties went to zero. Black Swan after Black Swan, basically a month after I bought it. Insane.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Hats off to you, man. One last question, since you've brought up MJ a few times. MJ or LeBron? MJ, is it close for you?

[Luca Nets]

It's close for sure. It's got to be. I mean, dude, what is, what is LeBron going to be? All time 30 all time points. It's going to be probably all time rebounds and assists or be up in the top three. Right? You would know the number. Yeah, top three. I mean, he'd probably. I think he plays until his 25th season. I think that's a good number for him. So he's gonna be all time points, you know. But you gotta, you gotta respect the crunch time. It's all about crunch time. It's all about the clutch. It just is, dude. And you know what I mean? It's like, it's like if I wasn't clutching pudgy penguins, like, I don't know, like there's something about being clutch in the crunch time and being that dog. And it's a little more for me. Cause like I, I identify more with the MJ culture. Like, I don't need you to like me. Like, I don't need you to listen to this and, and to like me. I need you to listen to this and know that I'm gonna win. Right. You liking me doesn't really matter to me. Just make sure you have a penguin or a little pudgy or some Pengu. Cause if you don't, you'll be upset that you don't, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

Like, that said, I don't need you to. I feel like LeBron is more of like, yeah, you can like me, but you know, I'm. It's to the last point, to the person who screwed me. It was funny because his dad was mediating the deal and he had, they had said something because this was a really stressful time so I'm not going to act like I was perfect. Yeah, I definitely helped create some of his resentment.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Luca Nets]

Let's not just act like he completely was off the wall. Now, mind you, I had found out that he was working on other NFT projects as like a consultant. I was like, dude, what the hell? Are you crazy?

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Luca Nets]

You know what I mean? Things like that, like, helping them with marketing and just like Instagram stuff. I was like, craziness. So he had really no ground to stand on. But the straw that broke the camel's back for him was the way that I was speaking to him. But I was speaking to him a certain way because the pressure was on. We were about to lose all this money. We were in this business. And he was like, he was doing a hundred different things that weren't about the business. And I remember his dad being like, this being a huge reason. And I was like, I remember being at Ring. That was my first job. I was early days at Ring. And Ring sold to a billion bucks to Amazon. Jamie used to punch holes in walls.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

Right? He used to be like screaming at people. And I never did that. Right? It never got that egregious. Maybe one time where I was like, dude, are you nuts? I think he promoted like an open edition mint from one of our holders. I went like, ballistic. I'm like, dude, you crazy? We have no money and you're promoting open edition mints? You know, for one of our holders, I think they froggy did a mint. And I love froggies. I'm not going to get into semantics, but I love this guy. And I'm like, but, dude, we're not. Like, we have no money. If we need to promote anything that's going to make money, it's for us because we're broke, right? And I remember telling him, I was like, dude, I was like, do you know what it's like to build a business? And I remember in that time I felt like mj, because it was like, over here you had this little crybaby crying about some words when we've got millions of dollars on the line and a community who has tens of millions of dollars on the line, and dudes want to sit here and talk about feelings and. And dudes are not even working, you know, working two, three hours a day, literally dragging the entire ship, literally, like an anchor. And I don't take this as a responsibility just for me and my crew and my immediate executive team and my partners and investors. I think of the community first, right? Like, dude, these People have so much money on the line and you want to drag an anchor on this shit and you want to sit here and say it's because I'm talking to you a certain way, because you're not doing your job. And now you want to go and try to fuck the entire company. Someone told his dad, like, I felt like mj because mj, everyone hated mj.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Luca Nets]

You know, but MJ won chips. Now, I did do some self reflecting and I did become. Because I didn't want to be hated within my own company. That sounds like an awful. And this is not basketball completely, right?

[Interviewer]

Jobs.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah, this is not completely basketball, but, like, so I've. I've found this balance between, like, expecting the most out of people and expecting to win and to have and to. We're in the business of securing championships. Right. With the balance of also, you know, trying to be somebody that people want to work with.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Luca Nets]

So I think I've really hit that balance. But at the time, I was very much mj. Everyone in the company hated me at the time.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Luca Nets]

I learned in hindsight.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Luca Nets]

Yeah. But we won, you know, so even then, like, they. People can say that. Like, you know, and we talk about it in hindsight and talk to Lorenzo, who's like, you know, the. The operator behind all this, who's really the person who makes this business happen. He was talking to me. I was like, yeah, like, you weren't great, but like, we won. And it's like, suck it up. We're here to win. He's also super competitive. He did a lot of sports. So it's like, you're either built for this or you're not. Hey, look, at the end of the day, the dude who left us, he made his million bucks. He wasn't built for it. He's not built for this. He never will be. Right. Because he folded. And so he will live his good life with his family. I wish them nothing but the best. I wish him nothing but health, happiness and success. But there's levels to this. And he'll never be on. He'll never do what we're doing. And that's it.

[Interviewer]

When you look at the goats, like MJ and Kobe, you really dive into their mindset. It's what separates them. Because everyone at that level is super athletic. Right. But what separates you. It's what you talked about earlier, the clutch, the mindset. Some people fold in the clutch.

[Luca Nets]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, so I think you have that.

[Luca Nets]

Can't fold in the clutch.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. Dude. Where can people learn more about Pudgy potentially get one and get involved in the ecosystem.

[Luca Nets]

Follow pudgy penguins on Instagram, on x, on all socials and you know if you got 10 bucks you can buy some pengu. If you got 100 grand you can go buy a pudgy penguin Nft A little pudgy will cost you about 15, 20 I think, right? 15 I think 10 to 15 right now. Come join the winning team.

[Interviewer]

Don't bet against this guy guys. We'll link everything below. See you next time.

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