← Digital Social Hour
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- [00:00]
A
I bet FISM is actually more scary than Agency. Really?
- [00:03]
B
I haven't heard of that one.
- [00:04]
A
It's FISM's, like, almost like the Olympics of magic. You have all these judges sitting, like, six or seven feet away from you. They have little notepads, and these are all famous guys. Like, famous magicians.
- [00:15]
B
Got it.
- [00:15]
A
You know? And then behind them is about 4,000 professional magicians.
- [00:20]
B
Whoa.
- [00:20]
A
Yeah, just, like, judging you.
- [00:26]
B
Foreign guys. Got Shin Lim here. He's taking a break from social media, but got him back on the show today.
- [00:35]
A
So.
- [00:35]
B
Thanks for joining us, man. Of course.
- [00:36]
A
No, no worries. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
- [00:37]
B
I gotta know, what happened with the whole break thing. Was that planned?
- [00:40]
A
No, not really. No. It just kind of happened.
- [00:42]
B
Really?
- [00:43]
A
Yeah, it happened during. It started over the Pandemic, and then I. I played Call of Duty. Yeah. Had fun. Just, like, relaxing. I didn't have the show either because everything closed down. And so I. I was like, you know, I'm just going to have a break off of everything. And so I stopped social media. And then. And then in 2021, MGM was like, Hey, I think we're going to open up again. Like, you should. You should. You can do the show, right? And I was like, yeah, sure, I'm going to do the show. And this was three months before we were actually, like, supposed to open. And so within those three months, I started stop playing Call of Duty. I had to, like, really, like, focus on, like, creating the new show. It was a completely different show. When we reopened after, I think it was, like, July 2021. That's when we actually officially opened. And that's when everything started happening. I started performing every night at the Mirage. And then slowly, I was like, I should get back onto something as well.
- [01:44]
B
Were you rusty when you took some time off? Like, do you lose the skill?
- [01:47]
A
No, I don't think so. I think it really helped, actually. It really helped. Taking a break, I was able to, like, kind of take a step back from the show. Before Pandemic, the show was very much like almost like a variety show. So I would perform and then my opener would perform, and it would kind of go back and forth like this. No storyline, nothing. Just straight up, like, here's a magic trick. And my wife, Casey, she was like. She was like, you know, the one thing you always needed to make the show, like, different is to add some sort of a story to get. Give people emotion. And I. I really thought about that. And so when we opened, I. The show's kind of, like, completely different. And so it doesn't really feel like a variety show, even though actually, in its essence, it still is. Even the one at the Venetian, it's still a variety show, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like a very cohesive, nice, like, linear thing.
- [02:39]
B
I'm learning about the power of storytelling right now and how it activates different parts of the brain so people, like, resonate with it.
- [02:45]
A
Yeah. They can connect with it, and that's the main thing. You want people to connect with it and feel something rather than just being surprised or, like, you know, what's. Being puzzled by something or laughing. You know, those are just other emotions that are not easy to grab out of people or to make it make them feel that. But, you know, you can do that through, like, comedy. So many different ways of doing that.
- [03:13]
B
Yeah.
- [03:13]
A
But the hard thing is to make someone connect to the actual show, like, really feel like they know what you were going through, because they went through the same thing as well. And so that's what story can do. Yeah.
- [03:27]
B
As social media impacted how you arrange your shows, because now people are performing their tricks online. Right.
- [03:34]
A
Maybe. I think if I see a trick that is super common on social media, or let's say someone already taught it and it got a lot of views or something like that, then I'm. I'm like, okay, the normal people have seen this trick before. I'll take it out. Yeah. Unless I really like it.
- [03:51]
B
That makes sense.
- [03:52]
A
There. There are tricks that I really like and I'll just never remove.
- [03:54]
B
Yeah.
- [03:55]
A
Does.
- [03:55]
B
Does that anger you when you see people exposing how the tricks are?
- [03:58]
A
No, no, no. Because I. I think that's how I learn. I learned all my magic on YouTube.
- [04:03]
B
YouTube university.
- [04:04]
A
Yeah. No, really? I mean, they. They. They teach the tricks, like, really badly, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. They're not, like, the best, but it still gives you a foundation of, like, the basics of magic.
- [04:17]
B
Yeah.
- [04:17]
A
How the method is done. You don't necessarily learn how to, like, perform. It's hard. Hard to learn how to perform based off of YouTube. You got to, like, practice in front of real people. But I learned, like, all of my basic, like, all, like, the beginner tricks. I learned it all on YouTube when I was 16. And if it wasn't for that, if it wasn't for just the online presence of, you know, YouTube tutorials, I. I wouldn't be a magician because my parents weren't wealthy at all. I couldn't get a mentor or I couldn't buy tricks or anything online. So I had to just learn Everything for free.
- [04:47]
B
Wow.
- [04:48]
A
Yeah.
- [04:48]
B
Self taught. That's impressive. Yeah, I feel like the older school magicians, like they like to keep it hidden, right?
- [04:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, there is, there is. It's actually funny. It's almost like a civil war. Oh yeah. For, for magicians, there's, there's one whole group that is very much against it, Very much against teaching tricks online specifically, and more specifically YouTube and. And then there's the other half that are like, nah, it's fine. And I guess I'm kind of in that group because I feel like that's, you know, magic is an art form. It is a similar art form to music, acting, you know, anything that is art based. And so I really feel like that is the way to take magic to that same level and, and of appreciation is to treat it like an art form. You know, this is all learnable. Like this is, it's not like you have to be part of some sort of secret society or like to have some sort of God given gift or something to be able to perform miracles. You know, it's. Magic is, is a puzzle that you're performing in front of people and the person watching it can either try to figure out this puzzle in real time or not. They can choose to enjoy it. And then if you mix psychology, a little bit of math, science, sleight of hand, misdirection, when you add all those things up together, then it feels like magic when they're watching it.
- [06:10]
B
Right?
- [06:10]
A
Yeah.
- [06:11]
B
Yeah. You've probably seen so many tricks at this point. Is there still a trick that you haven't figured out someone do?
- [06:15]
A
Yeah. Okay, so there's this one trick. Have you heard of Asiwen?
- [06:18]
B
No.
- [06:19]
A
Okay, so there's this. He's a mentalist. His name's Asiwen. And I was 17. I'll always remember this. It was crazy. It was at a magic convention. And I was with my mom because she would, when I was younger, she would bring me to all like the competitions and conventions. There's these like, I don't know if you've heard of magic live. It's one of the big conventions here that happens here in Vegas. And I think this was, this was an IBM convention. And he. I went up to Asi. I was like, hey Asi, I'm a big fan. Like, you're so good. He's like, stand right there. He stopped a lady that was walking out of a magic shop. They have these like dealer's booth where they sell magic. And she was just walking out. She had a bag, nothing Was planned, by the way, because I went up to him. It wasn't like he stopped me. Like, I went up to him, so nothing was prearranged at all. And he's like, hey, lady, stop. Think of any card. He asked me, and I said, king of spades. That's my favorite card. He's like, you just bought a jumbo card. A jumbo card's a big card.
- [07:22]
B
He.
- [07:23]
A
You just bought a jumbo card. Take that card out of your bag. She takes it out and it's the king of swords.
- [07:28]
B
No way.
- [07:29]
A
Yeah. And I. I still don't have no idea how you do.
- [07:32]
B
Yeah. The mentalist stuff always blows my mind.
- [07:35]
A
Yeah, it's cool.
- [07:36]
B
It's nuts like that. That is some psychology or something, right?
- [07:39]
A
Yeah, it's psychology. Sometimes it's technology. It's body language misdirection as well.
- [07:47]
B
Yeah.
- [07:48]
A
Sometimes they use sleight of hand. Sometimes. Very, very rarely. Um, but I love. I love mentalism. That's. That's why I have them as openers in my show all the time.
- [07:57]
B
I always. Is that a route you want to pursue yourself too? No, that's way different from what you do, right?
- [08:05]
A
Yeah. Mentalism is like, it takes a special type of person to be able to do it, right. Yeah. You have to be like, really good at analyzing any situation at all times. You kind of have to be able to read somebody, tell if they're lying or if they're hesitant about something, and then they used all that to their advantage. It's really fascinating.
- [08:29]
B
It is. You carved your own lane in magic, right? Like your own style.
- [08:32]
A
It's a. Yeah. Yeah. It started at close up, Just regular close up magic. He's like, hey, pick a card and think of a card. Da, da, da. So that's like a very traditional style of close up magic, Something that I found to be really fascinating. And mainly I only did that because it was the cheapest form of magic, Just a deck of cards. But I. I've always loved, like, film ever since I was like, nine. I watched Lord of the Rings and I. And that blew my mind. And I. I was like, I want to do that. That's what I want to do in. In the future. I want to do something cool and epic. And so then eventually I started learning magic when I was 16, I thought would get me a girlfriend. So that's why I did it. And then I decided to, like, kind of create a routine that would be like that, like, kind of that same feeling. Like after watching Lord of the Rings, you Watch something really epic. And so I was like, okay, you need music and then you need to be able to perform. But like instead of to the people, what if you perform to the camera and only to the camera and then you treat the camera as if it's a person. I don't know if I did it like purposefully. Like I didn't really think that in my head. I just kind of did it and all of a sudden it became this like new thing that people were like, whoa. I never thought of it. You could perform it like as if you're treating it like a person and you're looking at the camera like, like. Yes, like, like you are the spectator.
- [09:59]
B
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- [10:29]
A
All of a sudden it became great for performing it in a huge venue.
- [10:34]
B
Right.
- [10:35]
A
Like the biggest venue I did was 16,000 people in Germany. And of course no one can see the 16,000 people. You can't see a deck of cards, but blow it up on a massive IMAX screen and then all of a sudden it becomes like a totally different experience.
- [10:48]
B
That is so cool.
- [10:50]
A
Yeah.
- [10:50]
B
That America's Got Talent run was legendary.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah, yeah, that too.
- [10:53]
B
That's what put you on the map, right?
- [10:55]
A
It really, it really. I didn't really know if it was going to work, but, but I, I just knew something different. You know, really focusing on, on the lens and, and, and I think people were like, oh yeah, this is cool.
- [11:09]
B
You were like the first to ever really do it.
- [11:11]
A
I think that way. Yeah. Where like not like dismissing the audience, you know, I, you never really want to just completely dismiss the audience. But that is pretty much what, what ended up happening. Yeah, like, like usually for close up magic when you have a spectator, you have to always like the traditional sense, you have to like really focus on them and communicate with them. And so yeah, this was like the first time I was like, I mean I did have a specs here.
- [11:38]
B
Yeah.
- [11:38]
A
But I was like mainly focused on, on the camera.
- [11:40]
B
Took a chance and it worked.
- [11:41]
A
Yeah.
- [11:42]
B
What was your mindset going into that competition? Did you have any idea you'd win that?
- [11:47]
A
So I do this thing. I do it all the time. I still do it to this day, is I mentally rehearse what I want to happen. And so I did it for Fool Us. I did it for Fism. Fism's like the Olympics of magic. And I would. Men mentally rehearse that I would win this competition.
- [12:04]
B
Wow.
- [12:04]
A
I would mentally rehearse everything that would happen. Confetti shooting in the air, them announcing my name, things like that. And so I guess that's my answer. I don't know. I. I didn't. I didn't think, oh, yeah, I'm gonna win. But I would rehearse every single night. Like, especially the month prior to agt, I would just be like, all right, like, this is gonna go well. Like, this is what's gonna happen. I would even mentally rehearse if something went wrong, what would I do to recover? Wow. Yeah.
- [12:31]
B
Almost like manifestation. It sounds like.
- [12:32]
A
Yeah, Yeah.
- [12:33]
B
I don't know if you believe in that type of stuff, but.
- [12:34]
A
No, it's really powerful because it makes you. Because you're almost psyching yourself to do well.
- [12:42]
B
Right.
- [12:42]
A
Because sometimes a competition like AGT or Fism, it's very nerve wracking. You know, I bet Fism is actually more scary than agc. Really?
- [12:51]
B
I haven't heard about one.
- [12:52]
A
It's Fism's like, almost like the Olympics of magic. So it takes place not every year, just like the Olympics.
- [13:00]
B
Oh, it's just every four years.
- [13:01]
A
Yeah. It doesn't take place every year. And you. You have all these judges sitting, like, not. Not this close, but maybe like a little bit farther away, like six or seven feet away from you. They have little notepads, and these are all famous guys. Like, famous magicians that got it, you know, and it's just terrifying. And then behind them is about 4,000 professional magicians.
- [13:21]
B
Whoa.
- [13:21]
A
Yeah.
- [13:22]
B
Just like, judging you, it's like a very targeted audience. Like people you respect and look up to.
- [13:27]
A
Yes. It's. It's terrifying. I was shaking the whole time.
- [13:30]
B
Yeah. Because AGT is just a bunch of casual, normal fans.
- [13:33]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's just like what we call, like, lay people.
- [13:36]
B
Yeah. You're gonna impress them no matter what you do, right?
- [13:38]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [13:39]
B
Wow.
- [13:39]
A
Less. Less pressure.
- [13:41]
B
That's intense. So you won that one too. Holy crap.
- [13:43]
A
Yeah.
- [13:44]
B
You have to come out with brand.
- [13:45]
A
New tricks and everything For Fism.
- [13:48]
B
Yeah.
- [13:49]
A
Yes. It has to be, like, original. Like, they, like, it has to be methods and even the style of performing. Something has to be like, unique to them. Yeah. If they don't think it is, then they'll mark that down.
- [14:03]
B
Wow.
- [14:03]
A
Yeah.
- [14:04]
B
That's interesting because there's probably been a lot of people doing the same things over the years, so to sure. Completely create a new concept must be kind of difficult, right?
- [14:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's, it, it's different for everybody. I, I don't, I think mine just came out of chance almost like, it's almost like what I wanted magic to be like. I want it to be cinematic. I wanted to be cool. I wanted it to be epic. And so that all just kind of ended up making it what it is now. It took time to, to be able to create that, but. No, I'm glad I did.
- [14:37]
B
Yeah. There's a lot of really big magic shows now. It seems like the trajectory of magic is keeping, keep on rising. Right?
- [14:43]
A
Yeah. It's so cool.
- [14:43]
B
It's insane.
- [14:44]
A
It's cool to see that.
- [14:45]
B
I feel like it didn't get the respect it did years ago, and now it's like, it's like a cool thing to be a magician now, right?
- [14:51]
A
Yeah, I, I hope so. Yeah.
- [14:53]
B
But I feel like in my parents era, it's like you got made fun of.
- [14:56]
A
Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, even when I was younger, people were like, you can, you can be a magician.
- [15:00]
B
Well, the money wasn't there yet, right?
- [15:01]
A
Yeah. I mean, it's not that it wasn't there, but like, like on agt, like way back, like in when it first season or second season of agt, like they, whenever magician would come on, it would never be like a cool thing. It would always just be like, kind of hokey. It was never, I could see that was never. Yeah. And so I, I, I, I, I've seen it change over the years and I, I'm really happy with, with how it's going.
- [15:26]
B
All right.
- [15:26]
A
Yeah.
- [15:27]
B
Do you constantly have to keep improving because you have to show every night, right?
- [15:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. I, I make changes every, every single three months. There's like kind of like a big change in the show. Every month there's like a minor change. And every day I kind of almost change how I say something or my hand movement. I would try something out. And it's such a good learning experience as a performer to be able to every single day, you know, just get on stage and then do something different. Because when you're touring, I've done a tour before, it's tough. Like, you spend majority of the time traveling, you go bus, hotel, theater, then next day, bus, hotel, theater. So you can't actually have time to, like, experiment with different things. You want to just make sure the show is good. And with a residency is different. Everyone knows everything. The crew knows exactly what to do. Lighting is all the same. Theater is the same. So you have the ability to just change and try different things.
- [16:24]
B
That makes sense. What was the hardest trick for you to master? What took the most amount of time?
- [16:29]
A
Huh? So this move isn't necessarily hard. It's actually pretty like beginner basic. But I practice. Practice it so much when I was younger, and I just wanted to get really good at it because that was one of the first tricks that I actually purchased a dvd. It's called Real Secrets of Magic. And they taught something called the Mercury card fold, where you able to fold a playing card into quarter. And the whole idea is to be able to get that card into your mouth and produce it out of your mouth, which is the trick I do all the time now. And so I would practice it hours and hours, and I'll probably for like three years. I would practice it, like, practice folding the card into quarters really, really fast. So you have to do it like under, I don't know, a fifth of a second. Like, that's how fast you're supposed to. To. To do it. And so I would practice in the bathroom in my. My mom's house. I just practice folding cards. So the laundry. I would throw the card. Every time I folded the card, I put in the laundry basket. The basket would be just filled with folded cards. And she'd be like, shin, what the hell?
- [17:39]
B
It's crazy what you could do with a deck of cards. Yeah. I had a card thrower on the show.
- [17:43]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [17:43]
B
I held up a banana, he cut it in half.
- [17:45]
A
Who was it?
- [17:47]
B
It was a while ago. He wasn't from America. I got to remember the name. But he's one of the top throwers.
- [17:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's cool, right?
- [17:53]
B
Yeah.
- [17:54]
A
I wish. I wish I could throw cards.
- [17:56]
B
I can't believe they can go that fast.
- [17:57]
A
Cut a banana in half and one throw celery carrots.
- [18:01]
B
Who's the best person you've seen with a deck of cards? Like, the most impressive.
- [18:04]
A
You say there's so many. The top of my head. So there's different. There's different, like, styles of magic. There's like, ones that are like, just like the technique and being able to do really technically difficult things. I would say Tony Chang in New York, but in terms of, like, performance and, like, misdirection and methods. I would say probably. Juan Tamaris is really good. Yeah. But there's so many.
- [18:33]
B
There's.
- [18:34]
A
There's tons.
- [18:34]
B
Yeah. You're friends with these guys. I didn't mean to put you on the spot there. Is Vegas still the hub for magic?
- [18:39]
A
I think so. Man, there's so many magicians here. I. It was so wild moving here. I'm like, wow, this is, like, magic town. Yeah. Feels great.
- [18:47]
B
I want to go to more shows. I've only been to Blaine's. Yes. But I want to head out to all. There's so many.
- [18:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. Come to my show.
- [18:53]
B
Yeah, I'd love to. At the Venetian, right?
- [18:54]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [18:55]
B
That's a great hotel. That's my favorite hotel in Vegas.
- [18:57]
A
Yeah, it's very nice.
- [18:58]
B
Yeah, it's great. I saw you walking around the AMAs, actually.
- [19:01]
A
Oh, really?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah.
- [19:02]
A
Oh, nice.
- [19:02]
B
That was a fun event.
- [19:03]
A
Yes. Yes, it was.
- [19:04]
B
Yeah. Shout out to the Venetian. And you perform five nights a week, right?
- [19:09]
A
Yeah. Wednesday to Sunday.
- [19:10]
B
Do you ever get burnt out?
- [19:12]
A
No, because I change it all the time. Yeah. If I didn't change the show, I would get burnt out. I get bored, but I have add, so I'm just like, nah, let's change something today.
- [19:21]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [19:22]
A
Sometimes It'll be, like, 10 minutes before showtime. I tell the stage manager, I'm like, hey, Kate, I'm gonna do this thing. She's like, okay.
- [19:29]
B
So that's crazy. What? We were talking before about the riskiest acts you've performed, and you did a crossbow act when you were younger.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [19:37]
B
So someone shot a crossbow at your head?
- [19:39]
A
Uh, no, I would be the one shooting. Uh, and it was a. So the. The normal way these types of danger acts go is the assassin would hold the. The balloon, like, right here in front of her head, or an app on top of her head, and you'd shoot the arrow, and it'd pop the balloon. And so I wanted to change that routine and make it kind of like the Shin style, whatever that means. And so I was gonna have music, and. Well, I did. I did have music. I created the routine. I. I performed it on. On a cruise ship, on the Princess Sapphire cruise ship. And it was a cooler team, but very dangerous. So I would shoot the balloon right next to the spectator, right next to the assistant. And then I would have a smaller crossbow with, like, a trigger and a little target, tiny little target. And so I would shoot that target. Boom. And then that would activate that small crossbow to fire an arrow at me, and then I would have a little blade to deflect it off. So that was part of the routine. And so that. That part was really dangerous.
- [20:40]
B
Holy crap.
- [20:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think I'll ever do. Yeah, it's too dangerous.
- [20:46]
B
Have you ever seen a trick go wrong, whether you're a spectator or somewhere live?
- [20:52]
A
Yeah, plenty of times. In terms of, like, something dangerous happening.
- [20:56]
B
Dangerous.
- [20:57]
A
Yeah. No, I don't think I've seen it live.
- [20:59]
B
Okay.
- [20:59]
A
I've seen it, of course, on, like, YouTube and stuff. Especially this trick where they, like, stab the nail right through their hand. Painful.
- [21:07]
B
Oh, my God.
- [21:08]
A
Yeah.
- [21:08]
B
Is that a trick? Like, what? What? Exactly.
- [21:09]
A
Yeah, it's a trick, but what can go wrong is the magician either doesn't see the mark properly or if some sort of technology thing goes wrong, and so then they don't know where the real spike is.
- [21:23]
B
Oh, my God.
- [21:24]
A
Yeah. And so then they. They just legitimately stab their hand because you have to, like, go really hard because they either use paper bags or paper cup. And so with those things, you have to really smash. You can't. There's no, like, Let me. Let me see the needles right down there. You have to go all out. And so if the technology thing goes wrong, the magician has to leave it up to chance at that point. Wow. And I've seen clips where they just ba.
- [21:51]
B
Cheese.
- [21:51]
A
Yeah. Actually, I think. I think Blaine, he does it at his show. He does that show, and at one point, he actually genuinely stabbed his hand.
- [21:58]
B
Yeah, I closed my eyes for that one.
- [21:59]
A
And then he continued the show. Apparently, I didn't see it live, but apparently he just. He was. He took it out. He walked away, and he came back. He's like, all right, let's keep going. I'm like, man, this guy's crazy.
- [22:09]
B
Was he someone you looked up to when you were.
- [22:11]
A
Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was. What made magic cool.
- [22:14]
B
Wow.
- [22:15]
A
You know, like. Because my first magician I ever saw was, like, a clown at a block party, and so that's usually was my, like, what I thought magicians were like. And then when I saw Blaine on YouTube, I was like, man, this is, like, so cool. It was Blaine and Criss Angel. You know, Criss angel was the whole other side of, like, the magic is real. Like, you know, like, he kind of gave off the vibe that he was Jesus in that sense. And then Blaine, of course, is the completely other side. Was very raw, very, like, street magic style.
- [22:51]
B
Those street magic clips.
- [22:52]
A
Yeah.
- [22:53]
B
Legendary.
- [22:53]
A
Yes. And that. And it was mainly that which Made me like, okay, this is cool. Like, card magic cool. Like, it's not, it's not lame. Like, this is really cool. So I, that's, that's what inspired me.
- [23:05]
B
What's your favorite stunt of his? David Blaine. He's got a lot of good ones.
- [23:09]
A
Yeah, this one.
- [23:10]
B
Oh, the bicycle thing.
- [23:12]
A
Yeah. Through the, through the bicep.
- [23:14]
B
Yeah.
- [23:14]
A
Crazy.
- [23:15]
B
That one's impre. Well, he's actually doing it too. It's not really.
- [23:18]
A
It's for real. It's. He's doing it for real, which is absolutely insane. I, I don't know any magician that would put themselves through that except for him. Yeah, it's, he does it every night.
- [23:29]
B
Crazy.
- [23:30]
A
At his residence.
- [23:30]
B
There's two, three that really impressed me from him. The first one's the being frozen one.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah.
- [23:35]
B
For like a day.
- [23:36]
A
Yeah.
- [23:36]
B
That's insane. The second one was the underwater breath hold. What do you get, like 14 minutes, something crazy. And then the hot air balloon one. Yeah, yeah, that one was nuts.
- [23:45]
A
Yeah, you just start flying with the boots.
- [23:47]
B
I was watching that one live and.
- [23:48]
A
I was like, oh, yeah, that was on YouTube, right?
- [23:50]
B
Saying bye to his daughter. Like, this is. Yeah, it was on YouTube. That dude's willing to risk it all, man. Shout out to him. Modern day Houdini, right?
- [23:58]
A
Yeah, pretty much.
- [23:58]
B
Pretty much crazy. Have you met him yet?
- [24:01]
A
Yeah, plenty of times.
- [24:02]
B
Nice.
- [24:03]
A
Yeah, yeah, know, we're, we're, we're pretty good, Good friends.
- [24:08]
B
Is it a pretty inclusive space, like, you guys all collaborate? There's no, like, beef or r. Oh.
- [24:12]
A
No, there's, there's always beef in the magic world. We're very dramatic people. But it is also very collaborative. You know, we always trade ideas all the time. Like, the conventions that I would go to, like, those are like, the best places for magicians to exchange ideas and create new ideas. Because we're all in the hotel lobby just jamming. That's what we call it, jamming. And so we would jam on magic ideas, and sometimes the best things are created there.
- [24:40]
B
That's cool.
- [24:40]
A
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really fun.
- [24:42]
B
Would you say you've accomplished everything you've wanted to in the magic space, or is there still goals you want to achieve?
- [24:50]
A
I'm not too sure. I, I, I always like to just explore what I can accomplish with my hands. I, that's like, with magic, at least. And so I've been delving a lot into, like, poker chips.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah.
- [25:04]
A
And, like, coins, something of that type of prop. Yeah. To, to kind of mess around With. See what I can do with it.
- [25:13]
B
Yeah.
- [25:13]
A
So recently I've been experimenting with that.
- [25:15]
B
Yeah. I feel like you'll never run out of things to master in magic.
- [25:18]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Because it is. It is just like, whatever prop you use, you. You get good at it. So I used to. I used to do cards, and so I've done it a lot now. I don't think I'll ever stop doing cards. Cards is just fascinating. Yeah, it is. And there's something very magical about playing cards. And I'll keep doing that, but, yeah. I'll eventually delve into other things. My brain just kind of always wants to do something new.
- [25:44]
B
So you've probably performed all around the world. Is magic pretty universal? Like, there's people everywhere that enjoy it.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah. The audiences are just different, though. How they react and how they see magic is different. Like, in Europe, they treat it as if it's like an art form very much so. They respect it so much.
- [26:01]
B
Wow.
- [26:01]
A
In America, I think it's getting into that trajectory. It's. It's going there. But what it used to be for the longest time was like, oh, you fooled me. Oh, you. You got me. That type. That type of thing.
- [26:13]
B
Yeah.
- [26:15]
A
And then in Asia, it's very different. In China, actually. It's. The audiences are. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it.
- [26:24]
B
More reserved.
- [26:25]
A
Super reserved. But it's. If they. If they catch you doing a trick or something like that, those. They'll call you out.
- [26:31]
B
No way.
- [26:31]
A
They'll be like, it's that. Yeah, I figured you out. Like, you can't fool me.
- [26:36]
B
That's funny.
- [26:37]
A
Yeah, it's like that. It's very.
- [26:38]
B
More pressure out there.
- [26:39]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So much. It's really. If you can perform for a Chinese audience, you're good. Wow.
- [26:44]
B
I'd be so nervous.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:46]
B
Holy crap.
- [26:47]
A
Yeah. I did a residency in Macau. Yeah. Studio City Hotel for a year. And during my performance, the one with the. With a car come out of my mouth in the smoke. All you hear on someone's phone, it goes. He answers like, oi. And he just starts talking and Skyping this friend of his throughout the entire performance.
- [27:12]
B
What?
- [27:12]
A
Yeah, like, it's just that. That's the type of audience. That's.
- [27:15]
B
That's why.
- [27:15]
A
Yeah. It's very.
- [27:16]
B
You can't use your phone, Right?
- [27:17]
A
No, I mean, people will tell you, like, shit. You know, like, please respect the artist. So totally different over there. So if you can perform in China, you good.
- [27:26]
B
Damn. That's not so Asians. Huh?
- [27:28]
A
Yes.
- [27:29]
B
China. Yeah.
- [27:30]
A
Ruthless.
- [27:31]
B
So that's the toughest place you've ever performed?
- [27:33]
A
I would. I would say so. Yeah. Yeah, China would be toughest. But also, I mean, it's. It's good. It's. It's. It makes you a better performer.
- [27:41]
B
Makes you sharper.
- [27:41]
A
Makes you sharper. Because the audiences, they don't give a crap about, like, oh, you've. Oh, this move is really hard. Oh, we don't care. Like, you know, like, it's. It's a different. A different way of looking at it. And. And it does make you better, actually.
- [27:58]
B
I think that's just Asian mindset in general, honestly.
- [28:01]
A
It is.
- [28:01]
B
There are, like, nothing's ever good enough. Like, you get an A. Nah, you need an A plus.
- [28:05]
A
Yeah.
- [28:05]
B
You know, like, that's how my parents.
- [28:07]
A
Were when I was growing up. Same.
- [28:09]
B
And it's, like, a little traumatizing, to be honest, but it definitely worked on me.
- [28:13]
A
Yeah. It gives you, like, discipline, and it really makes you always strive to be the best at whatever you're doing and to be grateful for what you have. And I think that's not a bad thing.
- [28:26]
B
Would you say that was your main strength that got you to where you're at? Discipline?
- [28:29]
A
I think so, yeah. I think I started as a pianist before I was a magician. And so that kind of discipline with, like, practicing, like, eight hours a day kind of transferred over to card magic. Yeah. Because I would do the same with piano. You know, I'd make sure, like, okay, I gotta get my scales down, and then, like, I have to make sure that I know this song, like, by heart before I perform it in front of. At a recital.
- [28:53]
B
Yeah.
- [28:53]
A
So I kind of took that same regiment, moved over to magic, and it was pretty. I found magic's actually easier than. Than piano in terms of. In terms of dexterity. Yes.
- [29:04]
B
Okay.
- [29:04]
A
But magic has different aspects to it. You know, there's misdirection. You have to master that, and then you've got to master psychology. You got to master camera movement now, you know, with. With media and. Yeah. Yes. There's so many other aspects to magic that are. That are important too.
- [29:21]
B
How far did you get as a pianist? Were you getting a lot of gigs?
- [29:24]
A
I never really got gigs. I performed at a bunch of recitals and then competitions, too. I. I had won some competitions and then got a scholarship to university.
- [29:37]
B
For piano.
- [29:38]
A
For piano? Yeah. For piano performance, specifically. Yeah. And then. But I. I couldn't. I had to drop out about a year. Year and a half into it.
- [29:46]
B
Did you Start not liking it as much.
- [29:48]
A
No, no, no. The, the, the doctor there, they had like a resident doctor to like treat people with injuries for piano, for music. It was a music college.
- [29:58]
B
Okay.
- [29:59]
A
Yeah. I guess either you have vocal issues or. Got it in my case was carpal tunnel. He was like, yeah, man, you got. You have carpal tunne both your hands. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, that's what all that pain is. I was like, damn it. And so it was. It was really tough to. To kind of hear that news because literally I've been doing it since I was 9. I've been playing the piano forever. And that's was in my head like my goal in life was to be a concert pianist. You know, that's what I had envisioned. Magic was just not even. Magic was just hobby to try to pick up chicks or at least try to.
- [30:35]
B
It's a good party trick.
- [30:36]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Didn't. Didn't work though. But, but, but I. I don't know. It was shocking. It was shocking to hear that. And so he was like, yo, you have to choose some. You choose one because you're doing too much. You're. You're doing piano and then what are you doing? You're doing this card stuff on the side. Like, he's like, yeah, that you're like putting way too much pressure on your wrist. And so I kind of. I took a leave of absence from university. Didn't really do anything for a year. And then I decided, you know what? I'm try this magic thing. Let's give it a shot. So I started doing magic competitions.
- [31:09]
B
Wow.
- [31:10]
A
That's how. That's how it happened. Damn.
- [31:12]
B
So you had to reinvent yourself because you dedicated your whole life to piano.
- [31:15]
A
Yeah.
- [31:15]
B
Eleven long years. Eight hours a day.
- [31:17]
A
Wow.
- [31:18]
B
That year must have been tough for you. A year off from college and just being home and my parents house.
- [31:22]
A
Yeah.
- [31:23]
B
Yeah, I've been there.
- [31:25]
A
Yeah.
- [31:25]
B
When I dropped out. Yeah. It's kind of like humiliating a little bit.
- [31:29]
A
Yeah.
- [31:29]
B
But at the same time, I just worked really hard and it paid off.
- [31:33]
A
Yeah.
- [31:33]
B
College isn't for everyone.
- [31:34]
A
No, no, it definitely isn't.
- [31:36]
B
I.
- [31:36]
A
It's especially like the SATs and stuff.
- [31:39]
B
Like I still have nightmares about tests.
- [31:41]
A
Yeah. I. I never did well in like multiple. Multiple choice.
- [31:46]
B
Yeah.
- [31:46]
A
I have like dyslexia, so like sometimes I would circle the wrong thing.
- [31:49]
B
Even though you knew the answer?
- [31:50]
A
Yeah. Like I just. The only. The only class I aced well in was English. That was it. I was terrible at math. I Was terrible at science. Like, all my friends were like, shin, you're Asian. What. What the hell? Why are you in CP Math? Why aren't you not in the honors? Like, I'm. I'm like, I'm not. I. Sorry, guys.
- [32:08]
B
Crazy. Did the magic take off right away, or did that take years?
- [32:13]
A
So in terms of, like, getting good at it, I would say pretty quickly. I realized I picked it up pretty fast, at least compared to, like, what the guy on YouTube was saying. He was like, you should take about three months to do this. And I managed to get it in, like, a day or something like that. So I'm pretty sure it's because of the piano Piano gave me. You know, when you're playing the piano, you have to, like, move each finger and has to be very nimble, and you have to be able to, like, stretch in ways that aren't really normal.
- [32:41]
B
Right.
- [32:42]
A
Especially for, like, octas and stuff. And sleight of hand is very similar in that sense. You're moving your fingers and bending in a way that's not natural. And so for me, I was like, oh, this is like, the piano. I think I can do this. This is pretty. Pretty easy.
- [32:58]
B
Yeah. You already had the muscle memory of. Because a lot of people can't do certain things with their fingers, right? Sure, sure.
- [33:03]
A
Yeah. And you mentioned muscle memory. That is a huge thing of magic and piano. You know, being able to train your fingers to remember some sort of movement that. That you have to do at this very specific time. And piano is all about that. And then I realized card magic is also all about that, so found it pretty easy to pick up.
- [33:23]
B
So you picked it up, got good. Then did you start doing parties or how did it.
- [33:27]
A
Yeah, I did some parties, but the main thing was competitions.
- [33:30]
B
Okay.
- [33:31]
A
Yeah. Because my mom was like, all right, Shin, if you don't make it to your 24, you're going back to college. You guys, get. Get out of my house.
- [33:39]
B
That's the Asian mother.
- [33:40]
A
Yes. Yes. So she's like, the only way to figure out if you're good or not is to go to the competition. So. Very Asian way of thinking.
- [33:48]
B
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
And so she. She sent me to IBM, which is like, the International Brotherhood of Magicians competition. It's, like, the biggest one in North America. She's like, all right, we need to see how you compete against all the Americans. Like, the biggest one. And so I did my very first one. I was 18, so I was actually considered not an adult at that time. So I was competing as a youth, but they. At the very end of that competition, there's like a. A big one where they group both the youth and the adults together. Got it to see who does well. And I got top six. And that was pretty good because I was. I was the. The only youth in that top six. The rest were all adults. And my mom's like, oh, okay, maybe you're. Maybe. Maybe you have a. Somewhat of a strength in that.
- [34:33]
B
It wasn't a good job. No.
- [34:34]
A
Not good enough, though. Yeah, yeah. So she was like, all right, next. What's the big. What's the next bigger competition? And then fism was. Was it.
- [34:40]
B
Wow. How did that competition work? Do you all perform the same trick or do you all have your own.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah, you have to have your own routine that's original and unique to you. And so I. My first. My first FISM I did was at Blackpool. Terrible. That was a bad experience. Blackpool, Blackpool in the uk.
- [34:59]
B
Oh, so you flopped. You didn't do well?
- [35:01]
A
No, no, I didn't, I didn't. I. I got. Okay, so I got sixth place, which isn't bad, actually. It's. Out of how many thousands of. Yeah, yeah. So what happens is for fsm, you have to win the North America, your continent, in order to be represented by your country. So I won the North American continent first and then I represented the. The US when I went to the international. And so then there in Asia, there's. I think. I forget where it is. I think maybe it was China at the time. So you have to win that in Asia and then. And then you can represent whatever country. I don't know, Singapore or something like that. And so it just. It didn't go well because, I mean, six. Six places, you know, it's not. It's not bad, but. Yeah, not good enough.
- [35:48]
B
Not. Not Asian.
- [35:49]
A
Yeah, yeah, not Asian good enough.
- [35:50]
B
So which country usually wins those?
- [35:53]
A
It depends on the category.
- [35:54]
B
Okay.
- [35:55]
A
Yeah. So. So magic, there's so many different categories, right. There's mentalism, right. And there's illusions like Copperfield. And then there's close up magic, which is something that I do. And then there's stage magic, but under stage magic, there's three subcategories. There's called manipulation, general magic, and one more that I'm forgetting. And then for close up Magic, there's cards, there's micro magic, and parlor magic.
- [36:21]
B
Wow.
- [36:22]
A
And so I was under the card category.
- [36:24]
B
Got it. That's probably one of the more competitive ones, right?
- [36:27]
A
Yeah. And usually the Spanish do the best. Under the Spanish. Yeah, yeah. Under the Card category.
- [36:32]
B
Interesting.
- [36:33]
A
Under manipulation, it's the Koreans, hands down.
- [36:35]
B
They're good at manipulating.
- [36:37]
A
Yeah, The K. So manipulation is the concept of producing many cards out of your hands or many bills or coins. I'm sure you've seen it on like on Instagram and stuff. It's really fascinating. And that, that is in terms of sleight of hand manipulation is. Uses the most like, so they don't really require misdirection, psychology. So like all those other things are kind of like left away.
- [37:03]
B
Got it.
- [37:03]
A
Slight of hand is just like the main crux of manipulation. Whereas card magic, it still uses, you know, psychology, misurrection, puzzlement.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, you kind of got to be good at a little of everything.
- [37:14]
A
Yep, yep.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah, Yeah, I could see that. Manipulation, you're just good at one thing.
- [37:18]
A
Just, just the car. Just so good, man. They're insane. Yeah, I could, I couldn't do that stuff.
- [37:24]
B
Dang.
- [37:24]
A
That's cool, man.
- [37:25]
B
What's been your favorite shows to see, to witness in person?
- [37:29]
A
So when I was in Maau, I. I watched House of Dancing Water.
- [37:32]
B
I haven't heard that one.
- [37:33]
A
It's amazing. It was directed by Franco Dragone, who, who did a lot of the shows here in Vegas. Yeah, he's passed away recently unfortunately. But it's. Have you, have you ever seen O? Yeah, yeah, it's at the blog.
- [37:46]
B
Right, the water one.
- [37:47]
A
It's very similar to O, but like on a way grander scale.
- [37:51]
B
Why?
- [37:51]
A
It's. It's unbelievable. They closed during the pandemic. They reopened. So I haven't seen the show recently.
- [37:57]
B
It's in Macau.
- [37:58]
A
It's in Macau.
- [37:59]
B
Okay. Yeah, I haven't been out there. I need to see that one.
- [38:01]
A
It's wild.
- [38:02]
B
Oh, was nuts. Yeah, I was front row and those dives were like.
- [38:05]
A
I was like, if you like, oh man, House of Dancing Water is like next level. Like Franco Dragon must have given like a humongous budget. So he was like, all right, let's see what I can do with this massive budget.
- [38:18]
B
I got a lot of respect for those circus ole talent. I mean, that's the thing.
- [38:21]
A
Easy. No, no, they work really hard.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah. Some of those stunts are like couldn't pay me enough. You know what I mean? Yeah, I wouldn't do that for any amount of money.
- [38:31]
A
Yeah, same.
- [38:32]
B
Yeah, Shout out to those guys. Well, Shin, it's been awesome, man. Where can people find your show and keep up with you?
- [38:37]
A
At the Palazzo Theater at the Venetian. 7:30pm from Wednesday, Sunday.
- [38:42]
B
Awesome. I'll be at one of them. Thanks for having. Thanks for coming.
- [38:45]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [38:46]
B
Check them out, guys. I'll. Guys, you. See you next time. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.