Short vs. Long Form Content: The Truth About Engagement | Abel James DSH #1314

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Episode Summary Episode: Short vs. Long Form Content: The Truth About Engagement | Abel James DSH #1314
Release Date: April 10, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Abel James, renowned health and wellness expert known as the "Fat Burning Man"

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1. Introduction to Abel James

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes Abel James, a veteran in the health and wellness podcasting space with over 14 years of experience. Abel, widely recognized as the "Fat Burning Man," brings a wealth of knowledge from his long-standing engagement in the biohacking and paleo communities. Reflecting on his journey, Abel shares, “Being early had had a lot of benefits and made a lot of connections with people who have continued to be out there and do incredible things with their careers” (00:35).

2. The Shift to Short Form Content vs. Long Form Engagement

The conversation begins with Sean observing the industry's shift towards short-form content, particularly clips, as the primary driver of views and engagement. Abel acknowledges this trend, stating, “If you want to get out there and be seen, then clips are obviously fantastic. But if you really want to affect someone, I don't think there's anything better than a long form conversation” (01:03).

Abel emphasizes the intrinsic value of deep, meaningful dialogues over fleeting interactions. He argues that while short clips are excellent for visibility, long-form content fosters genuine understanding and education. “It's easy to waste our time now when we're trying to consume. It's just entertainment instead of education,” Abel points out (02:01). This distinction underscores the podcast’s mission to provide substantive content that inspires and educates listeners.

3. Diet and Nutrition: Emphasizing Real Food

A significant portion of the episode delves into diet and nutrition, where Abel passionately advocates for "real food." He discusses his consistent dietary approach over the past decade, highlighting minimal changes despite the emergence of various trends like the carnivore diet. “Most of the stuff that's processed or fried or uses the modern seed oils and vegetable oils is terrible for us,” Abel asserts (04:11).

Abel shares his personal experimentation with different fueling methods during his marathon running days, emphasizing the importance of simplicity: “Eat real food, prioritize protein, and get out and move,” he advises (06:00). He cautions against the allure of trendy diets that often overlook fundamental health principles, such as the impact of microplastics and other environmental toxins on overall well-being.

4. The Importance of Cooking and Lifestyle Habits

Transitioning from dietary discussions, Abel underscores the significance of cooking as a cornerstone of healthy living. He encourages listeners to develop basic cooking skills to avoid reliance on processed foods or dining out, which often leads to poor nutritional choices. “If you can just learn how to scramble some eggs or make a simple stir fry with meats and veggies, you can do that most days of the week,” Abel explains (08:06).

Abel highlights the economic and health benefits of home-cooked meals, noting, “If you go to a restaurant and order the same exact steak, especially here in Austin, you're talking 80 or 100 bucks,” compared to purchasing quality ingredients and cooking at home for a fraction of the cost (11:00). This practical advice aims to empower listeners to take control of their nutrition without significant financial strain.

5. Lab-Grown Meat and Industrial Farming: Abel's Skepticism

The discussion shifts to the controversial topic of lab-grown meat and industrial farming practices. Abel expresses strong skepticism towards lab-grown meat, questioning its necessity when traditional livestock farming can provide healthier and more sustainable options. “Why do we have to go into the lab to try to make this artificial stuff? Is it going to be more economical? Maybe, eventually. But I don't really want to sign up for that future,” he states (10:41).

He critiques the current industrial farming systems, contrasting grass-fed beef with CAFO (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations) beef. Abel argues that grass-fed beef not only supports better animal welfare but also maintains ecological balance: “Grass fed beef isn't just important because they were eating grass. It's more that they were out in the sunshine in the pasture eating their natural diet of grass” (12:20). He draws parallels between fattening cows on GMO feeds and the human obesity epidemic, attributing both to similar underlying causes.

6. Building Healthy Habits and Personal Success Stories

Abel shares inspiring success stories from his work, illustrating the transformative power of simple, consistent habits. He recounts working with a client, Kurt, who lost an astounding 87 pounds and reduced his body fat from over 50% to approximately 27% in just 14 weeks. “It didn’t take any sort of newfangled tools or specialized resources or knowledge or expensive equipment. It took him committing to the plan and then following it,” Abel explains (19:44).

Abel emphasizes the importance of foundational health practices over costly biohacking techniques. He advocates for practicality and consistency, stating, “Once you get out of your own way and you let your body do its own thing, you’re dialed in. It becomes pretty easy to keep that momentum going” (16:35). These narratives serve to motivate listeners to adopt sustainable health practices that yield long-term benefits.

7. Biohacking and Biological Age

The conversation touches upon the concept of biological age, a measure Abel considers not entirely reliable due to potential biases and incentives from various platforms. He advises focusing on how one feels and performs rather than relying solely on numerical indicators: “Be honest with yourself. How do you actually feel? How well did you sleep last night? Are you crushing it at work?” (33:01).

Abel reflects on his own journey with health optimization, noting that early interventions in his 20s have significantly improved his biomarkers and biological age. However, he remains cautious about the commercialization and potential manipulation of biological age metrics, urging listeners to prioritize subjective well-being over potentially skewed data.

8. Music as a Tool and Its Weaponization

Abel introduces a thought-provoking perspective on music, asserting that it has been weaponized over time. He draws connections between historical music movements and military influences, suggesting that music subtly implants ideologies into the subconscious. “What we're listening to is feeding directly into our subconscious,” Abel explains (43:25).

He likens music to a form of language that communicates emotions and intentions beyond conscious perception. Abel warns listeners to be mindful of the content they consume, as repetitive lyrics and certain rhythms can reinforce specific beliefs and behaviors unconsciously. This segment highlights the profound impact of music on cognitive and emotional states, advocating for intentional consumption.

9. Cryptocurrency Perspectives and Long-Term Vision

Shifting gears, Abel shares his insights on cryptocurrency, particularly Bitcoin. Identifying himself as a "hodler," he maintains a long-term investment strategy, viewing market fluctuations as opportunities rather than setbacks. “I'm expecting a lot bigger pullback than we've gotten so far,” Abel states (48:19).

He discusses the inherent volatility of crypto markets but remains optimistic about the future of decentralized finance. Abel encourages dollar-cost averaging and strategic investment during downturns, emphasizing the foundational role of Bitcoin and altcoins in potentially revolutionizing the financial landscape. “The dollar is definitely not working,” he asserts, positioning crypto as a viable alternative for store of value and transactional efficiency (50:13).

10. Social Media Censorship and Free Speech

A critical and personal topic emerges as Abel addresses the challenges of censorship on social media platforms. He recounts being shadow-banned and losing access to multiple accounts due to his advocacy for natural health solutions. “I had a list of at least 20 words that I knew I could not say that I was getting shadow banned,” Abel reveals (53:37).

Abel criticizes the restrictive nature of modern social media, highlighting the difficulty of disseminating truthful health information without facing punitive measures. He underscores the importance of free speech and the need for communities to reconnect and support each other outside the confines of manipulated online platforms. Abel's experiences resonate with many creators who face similar obstacles, stressing the necessity for decentralized and genuine community-building efforts.

11. Final Thoughts and Call to Action

In concluding the episode, Abel urges listeners to re-evaluate their daily habits, investment strategies, and media consumption patterns. He advocates for simplicity, consistency, and intentionality in all aspects of life. “There is no magic bullet. There is no miracle potion,” Abel emphasizes, reinforcing the idea that sustainable change stems from everyday decisions (17:01).

He invites listeners to engage with his work through his website, newsletters, and various online platforms, encouraging a deeper connection and community support system. Abel's call to action centers on personal responsibility and the collective effort to foster healthier, more informed lifestyles.

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Notable Quotes with Speaker Attribution and Timestamps

• Abel James (00:00):
  • “You actually just need to do the simple stuff and find a way when life gets hard to keep doing that simple stuff and stay on point.”
• Abel James (01:03):
  • “If you want to get out there and be seen, then clips are obviously fantastic. But if you really want to affect someone, I don't think there's anything better than a long form conversation.”
• Abel James (02:01):
  • “It's easy to waste our time now when we're trying to consume. It's just entertainment instead of education.”
• Abel James (04:11):
  • “Most of the stuff that's processed or fried or uses the modern seed oils and vegetable oils is terrible for us.”
• Abel James (08:06):
  • “If you can just learn how to scramble some eggs or make a simple stir fry with meats and veggies, you can do that most days of the week.”
• Abel James (10:41):
  • “Why do we have to go into the lab to try to make this artificial stuff? Is it going to be more economical? Maybe, eventually. But I don't really want to sign up for that future.”
• Abel James (12:20):
  • “Grass fed beef isn't just important because they were eating grass. It's more that they were out in the sunshine in the pasture eating their natural diet of grass.”
• Abel James (19:44):
  • “It didn’t take any sort of newfangled tools or specialized resources or knowledge or expensive equipment. It took him committing to the plan and then following it.”
• Abel James (16:35):
  • “Once you get out of your own way and you let your body do its own thing, you’re dialed in. It becomes pretty easy to keep that momentum going.”
• Abel James (33:01):
  • “Be honest with yourself. How do you actually feel? How well did you sleep last night? Are you crushing it at work?”
• Abel James (43:25):
  • “What we're listening to is feeding directly into our subconscious.”
• Abel James (48:19):
  • “I'm expecting a lot bigger pullback than we've gotten so far.”
• Abel James (50:13):
  • “The dollar is definitely not working.”
• Abel James (53:37):
  • “I had a list of at least 20 words that I knew I could not say that I was getting shadow banned.”

Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a comprehensive exploration of enduring health principles amidst evolving media landscapes. Abel James provides insightful perspectives on the importance of simplicity in health practices, the pitfalls of modern dietary trends, and the profound impact of media consumption on personal well-being. His candid discussions on contentious topics like lab-grown meat, cryptocurrency, and social media censorship add depth and provoke thoughtful consideration among listeners. Abel’s blend of practical advice, personal anecdotes, and philosophical musings culminates in a powerful message: achieving and maintaining optimal health hinges on consistent, informed choices that prioritize simplicity and authenticity over trendy, ephemeral solutions.

For those seeking to enhance their understanding of sustainable health practices and navigate the complexities of today’s digital and dietary landscapes, this episode serves as a valuable resource. Abel James’ expertise and unfiltered dialogue embody the essence of Digital Social Hour—delivering conversations that challenge conventional thinking and inspire meaningful change.

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Connect with Abel James

To continue the conversation and explore more insights from Abel James, visit his website at AbelJames.com. Engage with his content through newsletters, Substack, and social media platforms to stay updated on his latest work and community initiatives.

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Note: This summary encapsulates key discussions and insights from the episode, incorporating notable quotes with their respective timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Abel James]

It's. It's one of those things where it's like, it's obvious now that you don't need to spend a small fortune or a large fortune biohacking yourself or doing all of these crazy, extraneous things to get these results. You actually just need to do the simple stuff and find a way when life gets hard to keep doing that simple stuff and stay on point, you know?

[Sean]

All right, guys. Abel James, aka the Fat Burning man, one of the podcast OGs. Thanks for coming on today, man.

[Abel James]

Thanks for having me, sean. I'm stoked.

[Sean]

14 years in the space, man. That's impressive.

[Abel James]

It's been a minute. Even longer if you include the blogosphere before all the podcasting started. But being early had had a lot of benefits and made a lot of connections with people who have continued to be out there and do incredible things with their careers. So, yeah, it's been, you know, a great experience, kind of getting in early and seeing where everything goes.

[Sean]

Yeah, there's been a lot of shifts in the industry now. I feel like it's shifting to clips, definitely. Short form content, definitely. That's where I see a majority of views and engagement these days.

[Abel James]

Yeah, for better or worse. But you can also measure engagement in different ways. It's like if you want to get out there and be seen, then clips are obviously fantastic. But if you really want to affect someone, I don't think there's anything better than a long form conversation. You know, like, really going deep and seeing why people are saying these things or why the message came out that way is so important. So especially for people who are out there kind of getting caught up in the tendency to just scroll all the time, the best way to learn, I think, is to really sit down and listen to a legit conversation with people who aren't just, you know, saying whatever and hanging out, but actually, you know, talking about their area of interest or expertise and hopefully, you know, they've gone down their rabbit hole and can come back with some gold to share with other folks. Because it's so easy to waste our time now when we're trying to consume. It's just entertainment instead of education. I think it's important that double down on the educational side of this because, I mean, the opportunities to learn today are absolutely insane.

[Sean]

Agreed. I feel like I'm learning more now than I did in school just because of content. Like, way more. Likewise, every day, like I'm either pumping on a audio book or a podcast. I'm just baffled by what I'm learning At the speed of it. Because now you can control the speed. So I'm looking at 2x speed.

[Abel James]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And it's just like I'm absorbing so much.

[Abel James]

Right. So drink it from the fire hose. If, if you can handle it is a fantastic thing to do in short bursts. And I like to do that around interests. Right. Like, so if you go into one domain, say like near infrared or red light therapy, that sort of thing, then going down that rabbit hole and learning everything about it for a while is fantastic. But you don't want to be talking about it for 15 years. Right. Like, you have to move your, your areas of interest to keep things fresh and interesting. Especially if you, if you have a podcast like yours covering a lot of.

[Sean]

Ground, a lot of different topics. Yeah. When I was prepping for this episode, I looked you up on YouTube. You had podcasts with Dave Asprey 11 years ago.

[Abel James]

Oh yeah. Even longer than that. I think hanging out with Dave yesterday too.

[Sean]

I mean, the fact that you two are still at it is super impressive. Not a lot of people made it.

[Abel James]

No, no, there aren't so many of us. I remember, you know, I think it was in 2020. I had already been doing it for eight or nine years, my podcast. And there was a spreadsheet that a friend of mine had his assistant go through and, and just made all of the kind of ancestral health paleo keto podcasts of the day. And there were hundreds, you know, in this spreadsheet. And I checked that spreadsheet like a year after he had sent and tried to see which ones were still there. And 80% of the shows had already shut down.

[Sean]

That's crazy.

[Abel James]

So kudos to you, man, for keeping your podcast going because it's, it's a haul.

[Sean]

It's not easy. It's a full time job.

[Abel James]

It really is. And it can be in its own way thankless if you let it be that. But if you treat it as your own self guided education that you could ultimately share with other people and building this body of work and, and knowledge, it's one of my favorite things I've ever done to my life. Having a podcast as well as guesting on podcasts and talking to genuinely curious people who want to learn and contribute their knowledge is the best say.

[Sean]

I definitely agree with that. How much has your diet changed over the past 10 years? Because there's always a new trend, a new fat on social media. Right now I feel like Carnivore is pretty hot.

[Abel James]

Yeah, it really hasn't changed much at all. I've, I've tried many, many things, especially early in my career when I was doing a lot of marathon running. I would try different ways of fueling, combining that with intermittent fasting, overfeeding, underfeeding, kind of strategically around training. And, you know, you can talk about the minutiae and how certain foods are extraordinarily bad. And I would say, just as a blanket statement, most of the stuff that's, that's processed or fried or uses the modern seed oils and vegetable oils is terrible for us. So that means even if you're at like a fancy hotel someplace or a fancy restaurant, you're still eating horrible food easily. So if you know what to choose and what to prioritize and keep it real food, it doesn't have to be more complicated than like steak and a vegetable. Right. And, and drink some water, preferably. Exactly. So there are a lot of different things that can come on your radar, and they should. But there are so many people these days who are obsessively going after one particular diet and completely ignoring the fact that they're getting just blasted by microplastics in the air that they breathe, in the water that they drink, whatever else that, that they're doing. So it's like those blind spots in a lot of the cases are responsible for most of the poor performance. And the obsession with these tiny little pieces of the conversation largely comes from, you know, the nature of the modern Internet, which is rewarding all the bad things, all the wrong things. Fear mongering, the fear mongering, the clickbait, the stuff that the headline is not what the content says. It's like the opposite of it. So it, it's, it's very confusing. So as long I don't want people to get too caught up in all of the whiz bang nonsense that's out there. Because the truth is, it, it's not really a knowledge problem anymore. Right. Like we could, we could print out one page. You don't have to read a health book to know what to do. You could fit it on a half page. And I've given this to it to a number of people, but basically like, eat real food, prioritize protein, and get out and move. Don't be afraid of the sun. Like, try to align that with your circadian rhythm. A lot of this stuff, thankfully, has gotten out there and people have talk about it, but the problem is it's not really a sexy message. It's not really that, that interesting. But people are obsessing about all these Tiny little things on the sidelines and the periphery of the main point, which is that you got to just do it. You got to take action. Once you figure out what you need to do, you have to do it every day. And that's the challenge that most people run into. Because it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to do the boring things. It's hard to go to sleep on time. It's hard to eat the right thing where you're at, when you're at the wrong place or you're with a bunch of friends and, you know they're having pizza. And it's. It's important to recognize as well that we all get a little bit of wiggle room. You know, you don't have to be completely committed to having everything be a hundred percent. Although some people do it that way. That's certainly never been our perspective. I think it's important to know why you're doing this and also appreciate it and have fun while you're living your life. Eating real food. Being healthy is. Is in many ways its own reward. And once you build those habits and kind of those grooves in your mind, then that becomes the default. And eating terrible stuff that makes you feel horribly, you know, just a short time afterwards or certainly the next few days just becomes something that is not appealing anymore. And then your subconscious, your nervous system starts to learn that too. So you drive by. You walk by McDonald's or something like that. It does. It starts to smell. Not like. Right. Like that's not something that I crave anymore. Whereas I used to, you know. And so allowing your own ch. Tastes to change and your own cravings and that sort of thing is. It is a good part of the process, but it takes time, man.

[Sean]

I used to eat Chipotle every day when I was younger, and I ate it for the first time, like last week in four years.

[Abel James]

Yeah. It'll rip you up.

[Sean]

The seed oils and I don't know what else is in there.

[Abel James]

All sorts of nonsense.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

Just destroyed me.

[Sean]

The whole day was shot.

[Abel James]

Right? Yeah.

[Sean]

And I used to eat that every day.

[Abel James]

Isn't that weird? So worth it. And you're not old enough for that even to be a problem. I know things start falling apart, um, if you don't treat yourself well and make sure that your body is. Is actively recovering. But yeah, if you're just kind of eating the gnarly stuff, as I did as well, you know, when I. When I was younger, you kind of get used to it, you know, it's like you you lose your taste. You don't have that sensitivity anymore. And rebuilding that, that natural sensitivity is kind of a wonderful thing because then you can actually taste the vegetable again and it won't necessarily taste bad this time around or tastes like nothing. You can start to appreciate the tiny little nuanced flavors and things. And I, I really have fun with that because a lot of people who are struggling with their health don't know how to cook or don't ever really attempt it. And if you can just learn how to scramble some eggs or, you know, make a simple stir fry with, with meats and veggies, you can do that most days of the week and have everything basically taken care of, your taste will change. And there's a lot of. It's an empowering thing when you realize that you don't need to order out all the time, that you don't need, you know, to be spending three grand or five grand a month on a professional chef to be preparing everything for you. You can take it on as your own responsibility because you're going to have to do this forever anyway. So knowing enough to be dangerous in your own kitchen is an important part of the process, I think.

[Sean]

Yeah, you can make some quick meals that are pretty nutrient heavy, right?

[Abel James]

Definitely, definitely.

[Sean]

I think that's the goal because we're all living such fast paced lives. We don't want to be spending hours cooking, but.

[Abel James]

Right.

[Sean]

Nice and quick, you know?

[Abel James]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

At least for me. Like, I don't want to be spending an hour or two cooking.

[Abel James]

No, some people do. And if you get into that, and like my wife, for example, she'll do more elaborate stuff around baking. And it's amazing. I love that she does. She's an amazing cook all around. Whereas, like, I, I'm not really as into that. I'll do that from time to time here and there for special occasions. But mostly it's just like, all right, I'm hungry, or we're all hungry. What's in the fridge that I could slap together in 10 or 15 minutes that's gonna feed us all and hopefully be delicious or even just be a way to be economical and kind of like use up the stuff that's gonna go bad first. And that is not as intimidating as most people probably think it is. It just takes a little bit of having fun and making the wrong stuff. I mean, worst thing that's going to happen in, in the kitchen is you're going to make something that tastes not great, you know, then just try again. You know, it's it's part of the process and it doesn't have to be a bummer. It, it should be fun.

[Sean]

Yep. What do you think of this lab grown meat trend?

[Abel James]

Why? You know, like with a lot of these things, the, the vegan meat that bleeds, you know, with the, the non natural heme proteins and things like that, it, it's just something where we already have the answer that's, that's good enough. So why do we have to go into the lab to try to make this artificial stuff? Is it going to be more economical? Maybe, eventually. But I don't. Even if it were, that's not a future that I would really want to sign up for. And there are different ways to think about it. It's like, are we going to feed the world from a lab where it's basically from the top down and large mega corporations are going to be calling all the shots and, you know, feeding people slop? I've watched enough dystopian sci fi movies to know that that is not the direction that we want to go. Right. Not to say that that shouldn't happen. I think that, you know, we need to feed astronauts who are going to Mars and we need to, you know, find a way to feed people through science and technology. Yes, but does that mean that everyone should be going in that direction right now? Absolutely not. I think that there's a tendency for humans, especially scientists, to have hubris around trying to get the better of nature. And the more that we honor, honor the laws of nature by eating the things that we have for a very long time, hundreds or thousands of years, which is healthy animals raised on their natural diet. That's a really important thing. So it's like grass fed beef isn't just important because they were eating grass. It's more that they were out in the sunshine in, in the pasture eating their natural diet of grass.

[Sean]

Right.

[Abel James]

So contrast that to the, the CAFO or the basically industrial farmed beef and cattle where they're spending their life standing in their own filth. In, in a lot of the cases, even if they do get outside and see the sunshine for a little bit, they're eating the wrong food. They're eating GMO feed that they're not adapted well to consume. So they put on fat really quickly and you can, you can certainly draw a line and see the similarities between fattening a cow and fattening a human. The reason that we have so many fat humans is the same reason that we have so many fat cows and we fatten the cows on purpose by feeding them GMO corn or soy or other nonsense food. Well, it's cheaper because of subsidies. So that's another whole giant problem. It's like grass that grows out in a field that comes from the natural process of sunlight. Photosynthesis, the water that falls from the sky is a heck of a lot cheaper in certain countries than it is in the States.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Abel James]

You know, and so that's something that we also need to get back in line and in balance because right now we're subsidizing the wrong foods, which enables this entire big food system so that all the kids are eating goldfish and all the adults are eating subway sandwiches and this stuff that kind of resembles food and looks like food, but as you know, when you eat it, it rips you up and you lose your health. And we have some serious problems. It's like if we're talking about longevity and biohacking and all of that, it's more about subtraction than it is addition. Yeah. You know, we need to get rid of the stuff that's obviously not working. All of us who are just. The toxic burden that we're taking on, even if we're eating all the right foods, is so insane that I don't think we have the, the margin to play with of, of eating the crap anymore. You know, like maybe a generation or two ago, if you look back at family pictures, I don't know about you, but it's like pretty much everyone in every family has put on 20, 30, 50 plus pounds on average, you know, in the past generation or two. Yeah. And so it's like we're doing a lot of things wrong that we need to clean up before we start doing all this newfangled stuff and eating lab grown meat and trying this soy based protein. It's like there's an obvious incentive for Large Corpor, the marketing arm of these corporations, to float these things out there and test them out, you know, for a while. They're, they're trying to get us to eat bugs, you know, cricket protein and that sort of thing. And thankfully a lot of times they'll shop, they'll trot this stuff out and people will try it and be like.

[Sean]

That one didn't stay.

[Abel James]

I don't think so, man. You know, it's like I had the opportunity to invest in some of those companies early and try their products or whatever. Like, I don't think so. Like, I'm going to stick with beef.

[Sean]

Consumers talk with their dollars.

[Abel James]

Right.

[Sean]

Even the plant based meat companies are struggling right now, what I hear.

[Abel James]

Yeah, they are, and rightfully so, because their products suck. Yeah.

[Sean]

I mean, there's seed oils in the product. It makes no sense for a meat to have seed oils.

[Abel James]

No. And it's completely unnecessary. And it's also just like trying to get around something that's a natural part of the ecosystem. You know, if you look back in time to North America or really the entire world, we had a lot more animals that resembled modern cattle historically that were actively helping the environment. You know, this is the way that soil is, is meant to work. Like be trampled on, be fertilized by animals. And so taking proteins and animals out of the equation or into the lab is something that I'm highly skeptical of. I think, you know, maybe decades or hundreds of years from now we'll have a good solution there. But I think it's. The burden of proof is on them. And we're going to see a lot of things trotted out in the next few years that are going to be gnarly. So I think it's up to us to say, no, thank you very much. I'm going to eat my real meat burger. And you can have that other stuff because it's not even cheaper. And if you look at their, their sausages, it's like they're limp.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

You know, it's. And it causes a lot of problems as well. When you're eating these seed oils and these, these fake meats, these new fangled foods, it essentially clogs up your whole system and you stop running. Right.

[Sean]

Yep.

[Abel James]

You know, once you get out of your own way and you let your body do its own thing, you're dialed in. It becomes pretty easy to, to keep that momentum going. You can completely change your life, completely change your results and your performance and your baseline. And so once you get a taste of that, you start to realize that doing this, this other stuff or whatever the, the newest Tick Tock trend is just, is not worth it. It's just all noise.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

You know, and that's where I want people to be. It's like build those very simple, healthy habits so that you don't need to be scrolling around on Instagram or Tick Tock for the next big thing because, you know, you don't need it. There is no magic bullet. There is no miracle potion. And if, if you're feeding yourself right and you're getting out there and moving, you're sleeping well and you're. I think another piece of this too is you're actively training your Mind to be present and, and performing in the moment, not being distracted. So I think technology is a much bigger part of this conversation than most people make it out to be because it's, it's like should we be eating lab grown meat? Should we be eating this food? Should we be vegan? Should we be carnivore there. It's totally fair questions to be, to be asking, but the answer is a little bit of all of it. It's going to be a little bit different for everyone. And so like trying to get the answer from the fringe corners of the Internet or whatever is most popular is, is kind of a fool's errand. And I think a lot of people would be well served by once again going back to just the fundamentals and hitting them. How do you put this into action in your own life and get your family and your kids or your parents or whoever's around you to hopefully hop on board following your example? Like not you don't want to be trying to convince other people around you to change or be a certain way, but if they see you have great results by making a few simple changes, putting them into, putting them into action, then for the most part they start asking questions and becoming a little bit more interested in what's working for you. And that's, that's something that I hope everyone can experience at some point because you deserve it. Most of us haven't ever felt that good because we've been eating Chipotle and all this other crap our entire lives. We got, we hopped on that train when we were in school. Most likely because school food in the cafeterias is terrible. Most people, when they're in the, in the corporate world or working at an office also the food is terrible. You know, you go out to lunch and it's the same crap. So it is some level of. It definitely takes effort and people don't want to hear that. It takes pre planning. You know, before you go anywhere, you kind of want to have a plan for what you're going to be eating and hopefully bring some snacks with you if you're traveling or if you're going into the workplace and have something high quality around because if you do you'll eat it and if you don't, you'll eat something terrible.

[Sean]

Absolutely, yeah. Lead by example. Right? A lot of people share their opinions on social media, but you should have some results first. Men talk.

[Abel James]

And like I worked with a guy on a, I was on a TV show many years ago on abc and his name was Kurt. And when I. When I met him, he was 352 pounds, had a. A medical history that was four pages long.

[Sean]

Holy.

[Abel James]

That. I was, you know, flipping through before I met him. And over the course of 14 weeks, he lost £87 working with me and went from being. I think he was over 50% body fat.

[Sean]

That's the highest I've ever heard.

[Abel James]

It was insane to, around, and I, I can't remember the exact numbers, but somewhere around like 27 body fat after that. And so that meant that he was below the weight that he needed to be to try rock climbing for the first time and to go out and he finished a half marathon and all these other things. It's like it. It didn't take any sort of newfangled tools or specialized resources or knowledge or expensive equipment. It took him committing to the, the plan and then following it, prioritizing protein, getting out there and moving and walking most days, doing some level of strength training to make sure that you maintain your body composition, even if you are under eating for a period of time, and a few other simple things. And as long as he stayed on the plan, which he did, we found a way to kind of like, make it worth it for him. Yeah, to experience those results. It's. It's one of those things where it's like, it's obvious now that you don't need to spend a small fortune or a large fortune biohacking yourself or doing all of these crazy extraneous things to get these results. You actually just need to do the simple stuff and find a way when life gets hard, to keep doing that simple stuff and stay on point, you.

[Sean]

Know, because there is that notion on social media where people say you need a lot of money to be healthy. Right. To eat healthy. Do you believe that?

[Abel James]

No. No, I don't. Because it's way, way more expensive to be sick than it is to be healthy. Right. So it depends on how you're doing your accounting. Food costs money, but having a roof over your head tends to cost more money than that. Right. Like, we all have expenses that come up just by virtue of living here on earth and, and having time here. So we need to say that, like, yes, it'll cost some money to be here. Once we understand that, then it's like, how are your food dollars going to be valued to you? Are you trying to get the best possible food for your health to avoid medical costs later that are going to go absolutely insane for most people? If you compare, especially if you look at the generation above you, if you look at your medical costs and how much that adds up to over the course of a year and you look at your food cost, I would, I would separate that out and just try to value like say what do I want to experience here? Do I want to try to pinch pennies on the food equation and save a thousand or three thousand dollars a year or something like that, or do I want to dial in my health like $3,000 a year, 5,000, let's say $10,000 extra a year for just like the highest quality food ever? $10,000 a year is almost nothing in medical costs if you look at it that way. So if you develop some sort of issue with your, your blood pressure or with pre diabetes or with, you know, you're looking at potential heart disease down the road, pre Alzheimer's, all, all these other things, I mean these conditions cost eventually hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, sometimes more than that if you wind up with cancer. And this stuff is largely preventable by virtue of what you're eating and how you're living. So if you can, if you can turn those dials in your own way, then yes, it'll cost, it'll seem like it costs a little bit more to buy grass fed beef compared to just the normal stuff or to buy pasture raised eggs compared to just the eggs that are out there. But like I said, those are artificially cheap. It's that way because of subsidies. And for us now, I think to vote with our dollar is probably the most important thing that you could do. So think of it not eas, not only as the best decision for your own health and that of your family, getting the highest quality food that you can, but also supporting a system that we want to see in the future. So regenerative agriculture, where there are cows and chickens and other animals just out in the natural world, fertilizing, like I said before, being a part of the ecosystem. We want more farms, not fewer like littler ones. Right? We can't, we want this decentralized, not top down centralized, not the Bill Gates farms. I don't think so. I'm not a huge Bill Gates fan. Everyone deserves to have their say in their own opinion. But we've listened to enough at this point and there are obvious incentives at play that are anti human in a lot of ways, that are anti lower class, whatever it is. And so I think we need to stand up for ourselves and, and really say that we do deserve the best food and the best ecosystem as well. There's a tendency for you know, the plant based crowd and there are a lot of incentives there from the top down and corporations to say that any meat eating is bad for the planet and you're a bad person if, if you engage in that. The, the true story is, is that has no basis in reality. That's an insane conversation to even have, I think at a certain point. And other people have covered off on the talking points better than I will today. Rob Wolf has an incredible book and documentary about this, this sort of thing. But you know, when you're trying to make it a financial based discussion, I think a lot of people are wasting money on, on other things that could easily be applied to food. But the easiest way to save money on food, especially if you're buying the highest quality stuff, is to stop eating out so dang much, right? Try to fill up at home for the vast majority of your meals. And once you do that, you can suddenly afford things that you never would be able to afford at, at a restaurant. So for example, if you learn how to just cook a steak, which a lot of people who are struggling with their health don't really know where to start from, cooking a steak, grilling up some chicken, whatever it is, if you can just learn how to do that, then you can buy the best possible steak for, I don't know, let's say 20 bucks, something like that. And you'll probably get more than one meal out of that. If you go to a restaurant and order the same exact steak, especially here in Austin, you're, you're talking 80 or 100 bucks. And so I think there's a tendency to have this conversation, be like, real food is so expensive and the, the best quality stuff is just like completely out of reach. But if you go to your farmer's market or you go and join a csa, what's up, csa? Basically you go to a farm or you sign up with local farm for whatever they're cooking up or whatever they're growing that season and they'll give you a box of whatever they're growing. So that'll be something that'll like cycle between. You know, you'll get zucchinis one week and then you'll get cucumbers and kale and other things like, like carrots. So whatever they're harvesting, whatever is freshest at times, what you're getting, and you can usually get it for a lot cheaper than you otherwise would at the, at the store because you're cutting out the middleman. So growing your own food, working with a small farm or Finding one that's relatively close to you and cutting out the middleman can be a great way to do it. If you really have no money, you can even work on a lot of farms for like half day on a Saturday or something like that, and then they'll just send you off with a ton of food. So there are a lot of creative ways to, if you want to make this a priority, which I encourage everyone to do as young as possible possible. Because once, once you see that, like, oh, I. My brain works, you know, like, I'm crushing it at work. I'm, I'm meeting my goals, I'm sleeping better, all these things, I look, feel and perform better operating this way. It's just not worth it to go back to the other side and you see that your dollar is really well spent.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Did you follow this feud between Brian Johnson and Paul Saladino?

[Abel James]

No.

[Sean]

Oh, you didn't see that?

[Abel James]

No.

[Sean]

Catch me up on that, I'll fill you in. Basically, Brian Johnson was attacking meat. Paul Feno stepped in and was defending it. I don't know where it's at now, but I'd love to see those two debate in person.

[Abel James]

Yeah, I, I know both of them and it's a debate that I also would be entertained by, but I'm not sure it's really going to solve many problems. Even Paul, for example, you know, like, he called me up when he was coming out with his. These books, I don't know, 2018 or 2019. Sean Baker as well. And I had them on the podcast way back. And, you know, as an elimination diet, I think the carnivore approach makes a lot of sense for certain people at a certain time. But it's an elimination diet. It's not a place where you live forever. It's not the solution. And also it's like meat eating is important, but it's not the only solution. Right. I encourage pretty much anyone who follows our work to. I made a lot of mistakes when I went vegan and vegetarian early in life, which wound up affecting my thyroid. And I gained weight and had just all sorts of different problems that, that came up. So I think a lot of people are served well by eating some level of meat, especially red meats. Being afraid of red meats has cost us a lot of problems as a population, I think.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Abel James]

Protein is pretty much the, the most important macronutrient, I would say, for people to focus on, because carbs, yes, you want to eat some of them, but you don't want to avoid them completely. You don't want to go overboard, be eating tons and tons of sugar, especially if it's of the high glycemic variety. And then as far as proteins go, it's pretty simple, but it's, it's hard to overeat them and you don't crave them as much as junk food. So if you can learn how to fill up on complete proteins from meats, you'll find you'll be craving a heck of a lot less of that other nonsense that's kind of getting in the way. But yeah, the, the debates between carnivores and vegans have been going on for more than a hundred years. Like, a lot of people don't realize a lot of this stuff is sold as new. But the carnivore approach and the vegan approach, if you look back when I was writing my, my book, I, I went back and looked at some of the stuff that, that people were writing about diet and cookery, as they called it, back in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, and they were arguing about the same exact stuff, arguing about that. It's insane.

[Sean]

We haven't evolved from that.

[Abel James]

Exactly. So banting is what keto used to be called back at the turn of the century. Eating very, very low carb and getting results that way. It used to be part of the protocol that they gave to diabetics before they discovered the pharmaceutical interventions. So if you look back at the original treatments for people who suffered from various conditions such as diabetes or pre diabetes, we already had the answer more than a hundred years ago. So we'll keep having these debates as long as they're entertaining for people. But I'm not sure how much we're actually going to learn from them. Like I said, the best, the best way you're going to learn is try doing some of these things. But a week or so, or, you know, God help you, 30 days, I don't, I don't do well. 30 days without meat. I haven't tried that in a long time. I've never gone full carnivore either. And for the most part, I'll try to follow my own cravings and also align it with whatever my, my training goals are. Because your appetite is going to be all over the place. Like training for, for strength versus endurance.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

You're gonna have to fuel in a completely different way. You're gonna have a different body composition and, you know, by age, it's also going to change a lot. Right. So, like, I started doing my health podcast and blogging about it. When I was in my mid-20s. Yeah. Now I'm 40 and so it's like things are, are quite a bit different. Not completely different because I've had things dialed in for a while. But back to my earlier point, like for you getting on the health train early, you know, I, so In my early 20s I was already having those problems that I was describing, you know, like problems with my thyroid, regulating body temperature, putting on body fat. Felt like a middle aged man, really low energy, had to eat all the time to keep my energy up. By fixing that early in, in my mid-20s and getting the hang of it and learning how to eat better and feel better and, and ultimately feel and perform a lot better, that tiny little tweak back then has made an incredible difference to where I'm at now. Right. Like you look at my biomarkers now and they're better than when I was in my early 20s. And my biological age, which we weren't measuring back then, now is completely dialed in without doing a lot of the newfangled, you know, pine cones and stuff.

[Sean]

Yeah, I mean, believe in the biological age stuff because I hear mixed things on that.

[Abel James]

Not really. Yeah, I don't, I don't really put too much, I don't even usually talk about it. I think this is the first time I've really talked about it publicly because I, I don't think it's a fair assessment. And I think there are also once again incentives for some of these platforms who are measuring your, your biomarkers to say, hey, you're doing great, here's a gold star.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

You know, because then you start talking about that platform and say on this platform I'm 40, but I'm only 28. What do you think about that? Maybe you should try and sign up. Here's my affiliate coach. You know, like, I think that there's a, there's a risk of that and so we shouldn't put too much attention into it. But it's more about like, be honest with yourself. How do you actually feel? Like, how, how well did you sleep last night? Are you crushing it at work? Do you feel that, that drive that only comes when you're kind of at your standard?

[Sean]

Right.

[Abel James]

Because like once you're below that standard, you know, if you follow that for, for example. So I, I went to a really competitive, smart kid school and some of my peers who very, very smart people, you know, went off to work on Wall street or I started off in consulting and maybe they stayed there, but I made that early transition into Health. The ones who didn't, though they remain incredibly intelligent, have degenerated, some of them. It's like, it's bizarre, you know, going to a reunion or catching up with some of these dudes and they, they look and act like they're in their 50s or 60s, you know, like bald, fat, totally gray hair. And it's just like, man, what, what is even happening here? And it's the combination of stress, like bad sleep, bad food that just over the course of Those, you know, 10, 15 years may sound like a lot if you're young. If you're a little bit older, 10 years doesn't sound like nearly as long. Yeah, it can go by pretty quick, but as it's going by, you're getting healthier or you're, you're kind of maintaining those standards or you're degenerating. You're. You're getting old fast. And that's how I felt in my 20s. You can reverse that to some degree, but the longer that you're just kind of burning it at both ends, the more at risk you are of some serious stuff happening to you. Losing your, your mental clarity and mental performance is something that I've. I've seen happen to people around me, whether it's in the world of, of banking or the music world that I've also come from. It's. It's really bizarre to see some people, the way that they age. Some of them will continue to get better, get smarter in, in the world of music. Their voices will, will get better over time, storytelling will get better, the creativity, that sort of thing. Whereas other people will get forgetful. They don't quite have the chops that they used to have. They. And, and that largely aligns with what you see in their face. Like, you can see people's health or not a lot of times by looking them in the eye, seeing their face, seeing the color, seeing the natural energy, the way that they, they carry themselves or not. And so getting that trajectory pointed and just nudged in the right direction very early, as early as you can, is so important because you don't have to learn much. You just need to start doing a few simple things and avoid subtracting some gnarly stuff that everyone else is doing early. And if you do that, you're going to be able to perform at an incredible level for many, many, many decades.

[Sean]

I will say mitigating stress for me has been a game changer.

[Abel James]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Because I was graying at 21.

[Abel James]

Well, and you've been go, you didn't Take a day off for five years, did I hear you say?

[Sean]

Yeah. So I was graying, literally graying hairs at 21 years old because of stress.

[Abel James]

I believe it. That's how it works.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

So how did you find a way to get over that?

[Sean]

A combination of things. Getting out in nature. Changing my diet I would say is the biggest one though because I was eating so bad, terribly. But getting outside touching grass as they call it, for sure, I mean I was working 18 hour days, seven days a week for five years straight. That is not healthy. My physical health was complete. Yeah, I did the biological age test. It said I was like five years older than I was.

[Abel James]

Right.

[Sean]

So I don't know how accurate that is, but yeah, just my blood work was awful and that was kind of like a wake up call for me. Yeah, my testosterone was low.

[Abel James]

Yep. I had a similar thing when I was in my 20s because I was, you know, went to that smart kid school and so I took on a bunch of loans and wanted to pay off, pay them off as quickly as I could. So I took a big high paying job, worked my ass off and then was moonlighting as well, doing computer programming and also playing gigs on the side. So working like three jobs. Three jobs and at some point things fall apart. And I think we all have, have at least some point in our lives where we push ourselves too hard. And you need to find the edges, I think to find your way back to the sweet spot. So as long as you find yourself at that edge and you're honest about it and you like tap the brakes a little bit, then you can find your way back and you can, you can see why it's worth it to kind of have these, these simple strategies for staying on point, like going to bed, hopefully at a reasonable time on a regular basis. You can have exceptions and you can have, you know, some nights where you, you tie one on and you're not going to pay for it, you know, with like losing years off of your life. But if you're living that lifestyle and trust me, like being in the world of music, I've seen people do it both ways. The ones who are out there still crushing like a listers, touring, especially later in life, they're not living the rock star lifestyle. They're not staying up all night partying, drinking, doing drugs. Like for the most part, the ones who are still out there crushing it later in life are almost completely straight edge. And really from a lifestyle perspective, pretty boring. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like just boring is one way of Saying dialed in, you know, it's. It's simple and they have their routine and that's the thing that you really want to focus on. Because the times that you go out with your friends on the weekend or you just. You're going out to dinner on a weeknight, something like that, those are the exceptions. And that's not going to be as big of a deal as the stuff that you do kind of invisibly without thinking about it every single day. So if you can nail a couple of meals a day and you know that they're going to be great, then you can afford to have fun from time to time or have imperfect days once in a while. But I wouldn't encourage people to do the hardcore cheat day approach. You can experiment with that, especially if you work out a lot. Rock and rock. Yeah. I mean, I don't think he's going to age super well. Like you look at people who carry an enormous amount of muscle, professional wrestlers or something like that, or bodybuild. Yeah. Lineman and football bodybuilders, they don't tend to be a shining example of longevity. Right.

[Sean]

Yeah. There's a point where it's too much muscle.

[Abel James]

Absolutely. And, and also that muscle at some point steals from other parts of your body, like your nervous system. So you're, you're fueling your muscles instead of your brain. Wow.

[Sean]

They know that.

[Abel James]

There is something to be said for that.

[Sean]

Holy crap. That's why there's that stigma with gym bros, how they're not the smartest though, right?

[Abel James]

Yeah, there's it. But if you look at the research, the people who work out are smarter. Oh really? It does increase your performance for sure to work out. So I don't want to get too lost in saying like meatheads are. Are bad or dumb. There's a lot of sad stuff that's wrapped up in that too. Like football players are. Did become dumber because of the head trauma for sure. That they were subjected to for many, many years and still are. Thankfully, that's getting a lot better. But yes, I think the point is that if, if you're looking at longevity, then short term performance is not the same as long term performance. Right. Like aging well is different than looking like the Rock today.

[Sean]

Right. I did want to touch up on the music industry. Do you believe music has been weaponized in modern times?

[Abel James]

It's been weaponized for a long time. Really? Oh yeah. If you look back at the history of it, even the original Beatles Mania and some of the songs that came out of Laurel Canyon and kind of LA back in the day, especially the 60s, these revolutionary songs and revolutionary artists, a lot of them came in one way or another from the military. And I don't necessarily need to get too deeply into that here, but I would encourage other people to look into that a bit. I cover off on some of that in my poetry book and in some of my. My music. But basically a lot of the big pop stars or rock stars from back then and the revolutionaries came from military families. And wow, if you look at what some of the songs said around wartime, it's highly suspicious. Let's now. And I'll just leave it at that. But I will say this. There's a lot of people have appreciation for music in. In church or in a spiritual way. And so when people are singing in. In church, it's a spiritual exercise, right? Like it's. It's a bit like a mantra or. Or it could be in some cases literally a mantra that. That you're singing or you're repeating. And so for most people when they're listening to music or singing along with music, they don't really think about it that way. But the way that I approach this is either everything matters or nothing really matters. And I choose that everything matters. And so what we're listening to is feeding directly into our subconscious. And as someone who's been writing songs for a long time, you can kind of put things in there that people don't realize to make them think of something that isn't really crossing that conscious barrier. There are other things, like don't think about the white polar bear. Like, our brains don't have the ability to not think about something. It doesn't understand the negative. And so whatever ideas that you're imbuing into music, whether it's violence, crime, certain ideologies, it's a sneaky way for. For whoever might be putting the songs together or the music together to share ideologies with someone who's on the other end of that, who might not be understanding what exactly is going on and how it's changing their thought processes. So this might sound a little nuts, but if you're listening to a Taylor Swift song 20 times and it says, I'm the problem, it's me, or whatever her lyrics are. It's like that's getting in there in the same way that a mantra is. So I would encourage people to be. It doesn't mean that you need to listen to, like, Christian music all the time or whatever. That's not where I'm Coming from at all. Or even classical. Yeah, it's. It's more about. Music is a magical, magical thing that's part of the human experience that's deeply linked to. And my first book was called the Musical Brain. About where music comes from and why we have it. Because it doesn't really have any sort of clear adaptive function. It doesn't make sense why we're listening to music all the time compared to like eating, procreating.

[Sean]

Yeah, you never thought of it that way. I guess just entertainment, right?

[Abel James]

Entertainment. But it's also kind of like tickling a piece of our brain and our nervous system. That is the earliest form of language. So if you don't speak the language of a neighboring tribe and you want to communicate that you're there as a friend or there's someone to trade with or. Or as an enemy, you just. Deep down we can tell what, like a drum beat, like a war beat sounds like compared to just like something that's kind of sweet and friendly.

[Sean]

That's true.

[Abel James]

It's wired into us cross culturally. So when you look at these different cultures, there's no real reason that we should be able to hear one piece of music that sounds aggressive, intimidating, like war or whatever, another piece of music that sounds like mourning, you know, like. Sounds like a funeral or another one that sounds like a wedding or a birthday, a celebration. But it's in there. It's in there through the. The rhythm, the melody, and also some of the inflection in the words, if there is word, if there are lyrics in the song. All of these things are being interpreted by your brain and your physiology as well, and being affected by it, usually without your conscious knowledge. So you can use music and musical tools to improve your performance, to aid your focus, to help you sleep, to help you relax and recover, or to help you amp up and perform better when you're exercising, that sort of thing. A lot of pro athletes have done that quite famously, from Michael Phelps to famous runners aligning their cadence to certain songs. But is music weaponized? Absolutely. So be very, very choosy with what you choose to pump into your own ears because it's. It's getting in there.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Yeah. I'm big on nature music and binaural beats when I'm working.

[Abel James]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Lets me focus for sure.

[Abel James]

Me too. I've been doing that for a long, long time. Or listening to the same song that doesn't have lyrics, usually that. That can help enormously. Because listening to music with lyrics as you're trying to work, especially if you're doing tasks that involve writing of any kind. Yeah. Interiors with what's called the phonological loop. So basically you have this competition between your brain trying to parse and understand whatever is being sung on one end and whatever you're writing. So if you are trying to optimize for performance and listening, listen to music, usually the instrumental music is going to be the best thing to listen to, aid your focus instead of being distracted.

[Sean]

So does that debunk multitasking? Because I always try to listen to a podcast when I work and I notice I don't retain as much.

[Abel James]

Yeah, kind of. I think that if you, if you listen casually, then you can still kind of pick up on things. There's nothing wrong with having background music as well. Eric Satie, a classical composer from many, many moons ago, called it furniture music, where it's just kind of music that's over in the corner. It's not meant to be looked at. It's not meant to be like consumed.

[Sean]

Like hotel lobby music.

[Abel James]

Yeah. But it does. I mean, it doesn't need to be that bad. But you could also treat podcasts and entertain entertainment that way. And it depends on the show, right? Like it depends on the podcast. I think some of them are great. Like maybe Rogan or whatever would be a nice one to listen to kind of casually. Yeah. Whereas there are others that are just straight in the point. Really? Really.

[Sean]

Huberman.

[Abel James]

Yeah. And you've got to listen, you've got to study it. And so it's. It's up to you. I experiment with it. But if you're really looking to focus and for performance, the instrumental music, binaural beats and other kind of functional music approaches can be really helpful.

[Sean]

Love it. Let's end off with crypto. A lot of FUD right now because Bitcoin's at 80k. But what's your overall vision long term for it?

[Abel James]

You know, it's interesting because I've been in the bitcoin and crypto world for more than a minute now and seen many bull rushes and, and a lot of pullbacks. And so hitting 100k was one of these things where we thought that we'd have all these 100k parties and people would have psyched about it. But it's funny because a lot of people are so obsessed with the numbers that it's not fun anymore. Right. But for me, I've basically. I'm not, I'm not a trader. I'm not doing the day trading thing. Never have. I'm a hodler. And so I try to find things early and watch them grow in value. And so it's been pretty incredible and befuddling to go through those cycles a few times now over the years where, Gosh, back in 2017 went way up and then tanked hard. And that's happened a number of times over the years. When you see it cut off 20%, 40%, 50%, 80% of the value from not just bitcoin, but all these altcoins, it's one of these things that is hard not to take personally and get really emotional about. But as long as you're a hodler, it's like I'm expecting a lot bigger pullback than we've gotten so far.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Abel James]

Like, and I hope we get it because then we can just stack some more, right? Like these are opportunities is the way that I see it. Or you know, if you're, if you're down, right, like if you got in at a hundred K, are you waiting four years, right? Like is that your horizon or are you trying to make money right now watching it go down to 80 or go down to 60 or 50 again, something like that. I'm excited by those moments. It's an opportunity to dollar cost average. If you got in too high now you can get in a little bit lower or if it's too much, just go into some other asset class, you know, like this is part of the fun of we're early in the world of crypto and the world of bitcoin as well. And I think that we all should be treating this with that four year timeline that is often repeated around the having. If you do that and you just ignore it for a while and you don't check the numbers. And I hate to give myself this, my own advice, right, because like, yeah, I'll wake up and I'll check the numbers. It's hard not to get bummed out when you see things.

[Sean]

Well, it's unavoidable with social media these days.

[Abel James]

Yeah, you can avoid it, but just, just hang on for the ride. I think it's, it's part of the fun of it. It's going way up, it's going way down. But compared to the dollar that's lost half of its value in the past four or five years, at least relative to gold and silver, right. It's like half or houses doubled, like gold and silver doubled, all these other things doubled or our money just got cut in half.

[Sean]

That's crazy to look at it that way.

[Abel James]

That's how I look at it. So it's like you, whether you realize it or not, all that money that you had in your bank or in the equity in your house, that just had a 50% pullback in four years.

[Sean]

In four years.

[Abel James]

So, like Bitcoin taking 20k off of that or 50k off of that price, it's like, I don't know, it's already happening to your dollar. So I'm. I'm kind of unfazed by it. And I encourage other people to take another look and be like, man, if it's. If it's going down now, is it really going to go back to zero? Is this really Nothing burger? Probably nothing? No, I don't think so.

[Sean]

There's a lot of smart people in it at this point.

[Abel James]

Some of the smartest people I know got in relatively early, but most of the smartest people I know are still not even in.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Abel James]

They still don't. I mean, people with a lot of money in other assets. And I've been in, you know, kind of the angel and venture capital world for a while now. A lot of those people who have money to burn and money to play with, they're still way too afraid of bitcoin and, and the crypto world to really have much money to invest. It's also interesting that, like, a lot of these people who are multimillionaires, they don't have 100 grand or 80 grand in cash to just throw at some speculative assets. So even the. The millionaires are being priced out of buying one.

[Sean]

Yeah, because they're tied up.

[Abel James]

Yeah, because it's tied up in something else. So that's really having got in, like, not super early, like, I wish it were earlier, but early enough. Like, that's a interesting dynamic that I've noticed, because it's all kind of gravy. It's. If this is Vegas, then I'm. That I've been up for a long time and I'm going to stay at the table as long as I can.

[Sean]

Yeah, we'll see what happens. You in the altcoins too, or just the main one?

[Abel James]

A little bit. Mostly just to play with, like, the ones that are mostly based around technologies as opposed to, like, the main coins.

[Sean]

I can't stand those, dude. Because that gives crypto a bad taste in a lot of people.

[Abel James]

It does.

[Sean]

And even though, like, I support Trump, I feel like a lot of people got wrecked on that coin.

[Abel James]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

And it just left a bad taste in thousands of people.

[Abel James]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's going to happen. And it's going to happen again. It's going to keep happening. But I am. I wouldn't say I'm a 110% maxi bitcoin, but I am mostly maxi there. And I think the other altcoins are interesting. I think there's a big opportunity for some of these to work out. Most of them will not, but the dollar is definitely not working. So anything that's an alternative that could be a little bit better as a store of value or that could have smaller transaction costs for micropayments, that can change the entire media landscape. And it already is with the Lightning Network and tools like Nostr and platforms and protocols like Wavelake and Fountain and some of these other like, it's starting to get there. We have proof of concept. The modern Internet is broken. It can be fixed by some of these new technologies. And I think bitcoin and the Lightning Network, or maybe even some of these altcoins could be a big part of pushing the next generation of the Internet to be a little bit better and more of a meritocracy than it is right now. Because we don't. Truth is we don't need these giant tech behemoths anymore with their algorithms. We can do this without them now. We have the tech, we have the people, we have the devs. And at this point we, we deserve it. Because most of the people, whether you have a big platform or you're just a consumer, we've all been abused by the algorithms and the platforms. Whether it's censorship, shadow banning, having people basically cutting that connection between a creator of something and someone who wants to consume that or follow that, listen to it, whatever it is, like these, these platforms in the middle have squandered our trust. I think it's on us to really build parallel systems that are better, better than that. And I really do think, and I hope that that bitcoin and the altcoin world can help point us in the right direction with that. There's a lot of work to be done, but we're getting there.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. I bet a lot of people in your space got censored in the health space for providing natural solutions. Yeah, you can't even say the C word.

[Abel James]

Like, no, you. I had during the pandemic and leading up to it, I had a list of at least 20 words that I knew I could not say that I was getting shadow banned or censored or like, I lost a whole bunch of social media accounts and can't. Like my Instagram account. I still don't have access to was completely deleted. And that's crazy, but my life is a lot better without spending time mentally.

[Sean]

Yeah, probably it might have affected you financially, but.

[Abel James]

And it also affected my. Like, I got really into free speech pre pandemic and like, during the pandemic because censorship was happening so hard. It happened before the pandemic too, because, like, I've been saying things that are unpopular or kind of against the grain for pharmaceutical companies or whoever's buy the bills of these social media companies for a long time. And so whatever the blacklist is, I've been on it as well as a lot of the people I came up with. Authors, podcasters, bloggers, that sort of thing. We all got on the list around the same time and we all got hosed. Like, we went from having the biggest health websites on the Internet to overnight having 90% of it just gone.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Abel James]

Pulled the plug and then just kept pulling and then we started losing all of our accounts. And I'm like, we're talking about eating food and like exercising. What is the matter? Is this really what we want? Is this really the type of censorship? Because I was very careful not to use the, the V word or the C word or all these other words, but nope, I. I guess we weren't allowed.

[Sean]

Can't even give food advice.

[Abel James]

It's. It's a weird world where. Yeah, you're not allowed to talk about eating. Yeah.

[Sean]

I think times are changing, though.

[Abel James]

I think they are. And we're seeing that pendulum swing back, thankfully. And it's really on people to. To say, we deserve better. Let's fight for this and let's put a little more energy into just not doing the easy thing, the swiping on Instagram and watching the short clips. Let's go a little bit deeper. Let's connect with the people who are creating the content. And I think another thing at play with all this is AI coming on hard. The past year or two now, we don't know if anything on the Internet is true. If you're listening to a podcast that could be totally generated, whether it's in video or audio, if you're getting a phone call or text message from someone, emails, like, we don't know if this stuff is real anymore. And so combining finding your tribe and the people who you connect with online and then meeting up in real life and having those relationships, having a powwow in person, building communities around that, I think that's going to be the future because we're not far off from like, everything on The Internet being completely bs, you know, like, even when I got the message or the email from you at first, I get so many scam messages from people like, hey, come on. The Lewis Howells podcast. I'm his manager. Like, we'll log you into your Facebook account and you'll get five grand. It's just like, I've gotten so many of those. I don't even know which podcasts. Podcast invites are real, and I've got.

[Sean]

Scary ones that look super real. And then they ask you to come on and it's like, should I send the money? Like, you know what I mean, right? Yeah, it's tempting for sure.

[Abel James]

I reached out to Louis when I got a message from his team. I'm like, this isn't you guys, right? And he's just like, no, this is not like. Because I've been on his show years ago, and it's just like, how are we going to fix this? I don't know. The only way that I see fixing this is getting together in person again and being like, okay, this is real.

[Sean]

Going back to communities. Yeah.

[Abel James]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Where could people find your community and keep up with you, man?

[Abel James]

Probably easiest place is Abel James dot com. A.B. james. Name of my show is Abel James show, and I look forward to keeping in touch with anyone who finds this interesting or wants to connect more. You can shoot me an email, respond to my newsletter. I've got a sub stack, that sort of thing. Beautiful. Shoot me a DM wherever you find me. But email is usually the best.

[Sean]

Cool. Check them out, guys. Thanks for coming on, Abel. See you guys next time.