Surviving Trauma: How Near-Death Shapes Us I David Ferrugio DSH #1341

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Episode Summary – "Surviving Trauma: How Near-Death Shapes Us I David Ferrugio DSH #1341"

Release Date: April 19, 2025

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a profound conversation with guest David Ferrugio, delving deep into the realms of trauma, grief, and near-death experiences. This episode, titled "Surviving Trauma: How Near-Death Shapes Us," offers listeners an unfiltered exploration of how individuals navigate and overcome life's most challenging moments.

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1. Personal Experiences with Death and Dreams (00:00 – 02:50)

The conversation opens with David sharing his unsettling dreams involving impending death. He recounts:

David Ferrugio (A): "I was aware I was in a dream, and every dream happened to be an impending death." (00:00)

David further explains how these recurring nightmares culminated in an impactful dream where he witnessed a cityscape reminiscent of "Independence Day," foreseeing his own death alongside his friend Sam.

Tragedy struck David's life on a personal level when he lost his father during the September 11th attacks. He reveals:

David Ferrugio (A): "My dad died on September 11th... he was on the 105th floor, so he honestly had no chance because the plane hit below his floor." (02:00)

This public and communal grief deeply affected David, instilling in him a desire to normalize conversations around death.

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2. The Purpose of David's Podcast – Dead Talks (02:50 – 07:03)

David elaborates on his podcast, Dead Talks, emphasizing its mission to destigmatize discussions about death:

David Ferrugio (A): "The whole premise is to normalize the conversation around death in many capacities." (02:57)

He underscores the importance of facing mortality as a means to alleviate fear:

David Ferrugio (A): "I don't know if it eliminates the fear fully, but I think facing it is part of that." (01:09)

Sean Kelly reflects on his own fear of death, revealing how early childhood experiences with loss shaped his perspective:

Sean Kelly (B): "When I was a kid, I used to fear death, and I had no one to talk to about it." (00:45)

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3. Exploring Near-Death Experiences (07:03 – 12:14)

The dialogue shifts to near-death experiences (NDEs) and their profound impact on individuals. David references Dr. Jeffrey Long, a neurosurgeon who has studied thousands of NDEs, pondering their legitimacy:

David Ferrugio (A): "There are thousands of them... I just can't deny it; you should at least be asking questions." (06:20)

Sean shares a personal anecdote about his mother's NDE, where she purportedly saw her deceased father, John, during a cardiac arrest in 2023. The synchronicity of receiving a message from a medium, Amber Kavanaugh, at the exact moment his sister informed him of their mother's experience, leads David to question the boundaries between reality and coincidence:

David Ferrugio (A): "She had a message of that. So I think the timing of it is... I don't know what else to make of it." (07:59)

Sean discusses the recurring patterns in NDEs, such as encounters with deceased loved ones, and muses on the possibility of astral travel and the soul's journey post-death.

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4. The Role of Psychedelics in Self-Exploration (12:14 – 16:23)

The conversation transitions to the use of psychedelics as a tool for exploring consciousness and overcoming trauma. David shares his challenging first experience with mushrooms in high school:

David Ferrugio (A): "The first time I did mushrooms in high school... it was a horrible experience." (13:49)

Despite the initial negative encounter, both David and Sean discuss how later, more controlled experiences led to personal growth and healing. Sean highlights the importance of setting and mindset when engaging with psychedelics:

Sean Kelly (B): "The setting's so important because I've had bad moments during trips..." (13:19)

David recounts a transformative trip to Joshua Tree, where he and his friend experienced profound moments of self-discovery and connection.

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5. Coping with Grief and Healing (22:00 – 27:39)

David opens up about his ongoing journey with grief after losing his father on 9/11 and the complexities of processing such a loss. He emphasizes that grief is a personal journey without a set timeline:

David Ferrugio (A): "Whether it takes a year, three years, 10 years, it's different for everyone." (27:10)

Sean shares his experience with losing a friend to suicide and seeking closure through multiple psychic consultations, illustrating the lengths individuals might go to find peace:

Sean Kelly (B): "I talked to two or three different psychics to get in touch with him, and just seeing why he did what he did... felt like finally could close that door." (27:55)

Both discuss the therapeutic role of podcasting in processing grief, with David noting:

David Ferrugio (A): "My podcast has been healing for me." (26:24)

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6. Technology, EMF Exposure, and Modern Stressors (04:20 – 05:54)

Midway through the episode, an advertisement interrupts the conversation, promoting Aries, a solution designed to help the body adapt to modern technology's EMF and radiation exposure. David humorously relates his experience with consuming edibles and coffee during the podcast recording:

David Ferrugio (A): "It hit me a lot more than I thought so." (05:54)

While the advertisement briefly pauses the flow of the conversation, the discussion seamlessly returns to the main topics afterward.

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7. Embracing Discomfort for Growth (34:00 – 35:48)

David and Sean delve into the necessity of embracing uncomfortable emotions and situations for personal growth. David articulates:

David Ferrugio (A): "You need to be uncomfortable. If you're comfortable, how the hell are you going to... make a change." (34:00)

Sean discusses his struggle with an avoidant personality, particularly in business settings, and the importance of confronting conflicts to prevent being taken advantage of:

Sean Kelly (B): "I've been working on that... because people would just walk all over me." (35:46)

Both emphasize the balance between avoiding unnecessary conflict and addressing essential confrontations to foster personal and professional development.

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8. The Therapeutic Power of Podcasting (30:25 – 31:40)

The episode highlights how podcasting serves as a therapeutic outlet for both hosts. David remarks on becoming a better listener through podcasting:

David Ferrugio (A): "It makes you more present because I think the past is on. The future hasn't happened. And literally every moment we have right now is the only moment we have." (31:02)

Sean acknowledges the benefits of reducing screen time and fostering deeper connections through meaningful conversations:

Sean Kelly (B): "Podcasting is a very fun position to have." (30:38)

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9. Relationships, Loneliness, and Personal Growth (32:00 – 33:55)

David and Sean explore themes of loneliness, solitude, and the importance of self-comfort before forming connections with others. David reflects on his preference for solo travel and the growth that emerges from facing uncomfortable moments alone:

David Ferrugio (A): "I embrace what's uncomfortable because to me, uncomfortable moments are where the gold is." (33:52)

Sean shares his experiences with isolation and the pursuit of companionable relationships, emphasizing the necessity of being comfortable with oneself to build healthy relationships:

Sean Kelly (B): "Being comfortable yourself is the first step to being comfortable with someone else." (33:04)

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10. Conclusion and Guest Recommendations (35:48 – 37:36)

As the episode nears its end, David discusses his aspirations for future podcast guests, expressing interest in interviewing public figures like Pete Davidson and Keanu Reeves, who have personal ties to tragic events such as the 9/11 attacks.

Sean mentions his prolific podcasting schedule and potential collaborations, emphasizing the dynamic nature of their respective shows.

David Ferrugio (A): "Keanu Reeves would be legend. He's gone through a lot of loss from my experience." (36:37)

Sean Kelly (B): "Podcasting is a very fun position to have." (30:38)

The episode concludes with mutual appreciation for the insightful dialogue, inviting listeners to tune in to both Dead Talks and Digital Social Hour for more enriching conversations.

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Key Takeaways

• Normalization of Death Conversations: David's mission with his podcast is to make discussions about death more accessible and less stigmatized, aiding individuals in confronting their fears and grief.

• Impact of Tragedy: Personal loss, such as David's experience on 9/11, profoundly shapes one's approach to life, purpose, and coping mechanisms.

• Near-Death Experiences: The episode explores the authenticity and patterns of NDEs, highlighting their significance in personal belief systems and healing.

• Therapeutic Role of Podcasting: Both hosts find solace and healing through podcasting, using it as a medium to process emotions and share transformative stories.

• Embracing Discomfort: Confronting uncomfortable emotions and situations is essential for personal growth, resilience, and meaningful relationships.

• Technological Stressors: The discussion touches upon the pervasive impact of modern technology and EMF exposure, advocating for solutions like Aries to mitigate related stressors.

• Holistic Coping Mechanisms: From psychedelics to lucid dreaming, the conversation underscores the importance of diverse approaches to self-exploration and overcoming trauma.

---

Notable Quotes

• David Ferrugio (A): "The whole premise is to normalize the conversation around death in many capacities." (02:57)

• Sean Kelly (B): "Podcasting is a very fun position to have." (30:38)

• David Ferrugio (A): "You need to be uncomfortable. If you're comfortable, how the hell are you going to... make a change." (34:00)

• Sean Kelly (B): "Being comfortable yourself is the first step to being comfortable with someone else." (33:04)

---

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a deep dive into the human psyche's response to trauma, grief, and the quest for meaning. Through candid discussions and personal anecdotes, Sean Kelly and David Ferrugio provide listeners with valuable insights into navigating life's most challenging experiences.

Where to Listen:

• Digital Social Hour is available on all major podcast platforms, including YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
• Dead Talks by David Ferrugio can be found on similar platforms under the name "Dead Talks Podcasts."

Transcript

[A]

Where I was in a dream, which is probably not the same thing, but multiple times. I was aware I was in a dream, and. But every dream happened to be an impending death.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And I've always. You know, everyone has those dreams that you die at the end, but usually you wake up.

[B]

You can't, like, recreate death in your dreams.

[A]

They say, yeah, and it happened. But there was one dream that I had. I still have no idea what it meant, but I remember I was on a balcony overviewing, like, a skinny.

[B]

All right, guys, out here in LA with David from the Dead Talks podcast. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

Thanks for having me, brother.

[B]

Absolutely. So your podcast is a very interesting one. It's about dead people and the purpose of life and everything. Right.

[A]

I mean, dead people show up. I mean, I talk about death. That's the whole. The whole premise is to normalize the conversation around death in many capacities. Yeah.

[B]

Which is needed, by the way, because when I was a kid, I used to fear death, and I had no one to talk to about it.

[A]

What. What scared you?

[B]

I don't know, because I didn't lose someone close to me until I was my grandmother, so I was. Yeah, I guess 10 years old.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I get that might have sparked it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then just started fearing it from there on.

[A]

I mean, it's pretty common. It's part of the process of why I want to talk about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if it eliminates the fear fully, but I think facing it is part of that.

[B]

Well, I think that awareness is the first step, at least.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Right. Yeah. But now I don't think I fear it anymore, if that makes sense.

[A]

Where are you at with it?

[B]

I've accepted it, but I don't want to happen right now.

[A]

That's fair. I hope not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They ruined the episode right now.

[B]

Yeah. But instead of, like. Yeah, but instead of fearing it, like, living every day like, oh, I don't want to die, like, I don't think like that anymore.

[A]

Yeah, I. I try to think of that. I'm not scared of it. I don't. It freaks me out. But I think being freaked out is different than being scared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's just me.

[B]

Definitely freaks me out. Especially as we get older, we know more and more people that are experiencing it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It happened to me at a young age where I think opened my eyes to it. So I think that was the first step to what I'm doing now.

[B]

How old were you?

[A]

I mean, I've had people die before. My dad which was the big one, if you will.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when he passed, it was. I was 12.

[B]

Holy crap. Yeah. That's young.

[A]

Yeah, pretty young.

[B]

That messed you up for a long time.

[A]

I mean, still does, probably. I guess. I always think about the weird things that I do, or my flaws, if you will. I'm like, does that come from that? It would make sense. It would, but maybe that's just me. But, yeah, it definitely affected me, for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's hard not to.

[B]

And that one was super unexpected. Like, he just went to work that day. No signs.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, don't know where you want to get into with the story, but for those of you that don't know who I am, my dad died on September 11th, if you've heard of it. And he was just. Yeah. Went to work that day. So he wasn't a firefighter on the plane. He was on Canter Fitzgerald, which lost the most people, I believe, so 105th floor. So he honestly had no chance because the plane hit below his floor.

[B]

Damn. So 1 105th lost the most people.

[A]

I don't know about the floor, but his company, Canner Fitzgerald, so they lost the most people. Because I think all their offices were around the 105th floor. Maybe 104, 106, whatever. But, yeah, they lost the most people. Cause I guess they had the most people that were on the higher floors.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Yeah, it's wild. That's the crazy part. Cause obviously I lost my dad that day. But it was a public grief, if you will, because there were so many other people. So I can't forget the people that died with them. So it was like this communal grief that happened, but still isolating because it was my father.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So it was a little contradicting in that aspect.

[B]

Yeah. That is nuts. And then from there, you really. Is that when you started the purpose of, like, finding out the meaning of life or did that kind of take some time?

[A]

I mean, if you're looking for the meaning of life for me, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you're not gonna find that. But I definitely, you know, I've hunted for some sort of meaning in my own life. And I think the meaning in your own life ends up being the meaning of life in general because it's personal to you.

[B]

I agree. I don't think there's a universal meaning.

[A]

Maybe. Maybe there is, but I don't know it.

[B]

Some religions teach it that way, but I think just focus on yourself works for me, at least.

[A]

Yeah. I think There's. I think there's maybe a foundation and that comes to kind of the cliche aspects where it's love, compassion, yada, yada, yada. So I think there are some universals that can apply to everyone, but not everyone will appreciate, I bet.

[B]

Agreed. Who have been some of your more memorable interviews that kind of stuck with you. You've interviewed a lot of people, right?

[A]

Yeah, not as much as you. You're doing a thousand a day. But I. I've had about 200 episodes now and you know, they're all. I have my favorites for different reasons and the most memorable for me is just personal. Whether it's going to be the first one you're going to want to listen to, whoever's listening, my mom, because that was the first conversation that I've had that was extremely personal in regards to getting my family on and talking about a mother to son. So that was personal to me. A recent one when a comedian, Ari Shafir, was probably my most fun one because it was just banter and I have a very sick sense of humor. So I love when humor's attached to conversations like this. So Ari was a special one, especially because that was the first episode of Ada Edible before the episode started.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So as the episode goes, I'm like progressively getting higher and higher and Ari makes that a lot easier. So Ari was definitely one of my favorites just because he's hilarious and it was more laid back.

[B]

I don't think I could do a part on an edible man.

[A]

I didn't think I could either. It was a really. I warned him. I was like, I don't know how this is going to go, but let's give it a shot. And I think it worked out. I mean, I might have looked like an idiot, but I don't really.

[B]

I'll watch that one for sure.

[A]

Yeah, good luck.

[B]

How many mgs was it?

[A]

Wasn't much. That's the confusing part. I don't know if I bought one that was stronger than the usual, but it was like five. I'm good on five.

[B]

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[A]

That's great. Except that was Aries time. Maybe it was because it was before noon that hit me differently and I.

[B]

If you were fasting, it hits you harder.

[A]

I don't remember if I ate. I had a lot of coffee.

[B]

Oh, edible plus coffee. That's dangerous.

[A]

Is it? Maybe.

[B]

Coffee is already pretty energizing.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. It hit me a lot more than I thought so. But it was a good. That was a good episode. I mean amongst that I've talked to so many different people. I've had scientists, I've had ex war veterans, a lot of near death experiences. So a lot of the near death experience episodes definitely pick my radar up. Just interesting.

[B]

That's one I wanted to ask you about. You had a doctor who had studied thousands of near death experiences.

[A]

Yeah, I believe that was Dr. Jeffrey Long. He's been on some big podcast. I think Theo Vaughn had him on. That's what he does. It doesn't seem like he's had a near death experience, but I believe he's a neurosurgeon and he studies thousands of them because there are thousands of them. And I just, I always wonder, you know, if you pick through the weeds, how many of these are legitimate and how many people are just. Maybe it was just a dream, but there's just so many stories and I guess you could be like, is everyone, is everyone just lying about it? But there's so many, including one that I've had, not me personally, but within my family. So like a reliable source, if you will. There's just too many to me to at least deny it, where you should at least be asking questions.

[B]

And it's thousands and it's people that don't even know each other and they report similar incidences.

[A]

Yeah. And I guess the, you know, if my logical brain and what my belief system is, you could always go back to, okay, maybe they're listening to each other and cherry picking, if you really want to take the devil's advocate of it. But they are all so different. But there are a lot of similar patterns that are going on that make it at least more reputable, if you will, I would think.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. You also interviewed psychic sisters three Psychic.

[A]

Sisters, along with plenty of other mediums and whatnot. I guess I like to cover all the grounds, regardless of my beliefs, and let the audience decide what's real or whatnot. I believe in that stuff, but you got to kind of keep your whiskers up as to, you know, who's talking.

[B]

Of course I believe in it too, man. Was there a specific instant for you that made you believe in it?

[A]

Not a specific instant. I mean, it's me. It's mostly been stories from other people. I. I haven't had a holy moment when it comes to mediums. I mean, some close encounters, I guess. Actually, that's a lie. There's one story that wasn't even a paid session, which made it even more significant for me because I have my accident. If you want me to share that.

[B]

Yeah, please.

[A]

So in 2023, my mom went into cardiac arrest. I was, without telling you all the boring details. I was landing in London, turned on my phone, found out, flew straight back, and we didn't know if my mom was going to make it. And spoiler alert, she's fine, which is great. She made it out there with no significant damage, which is wild in itself. But I remember my mom came out of the not coma, if you will. But she started coming out of it in the icu, and she started thinking that she just saw her father. Where's John? What do you mean, John? Grandpa John. Me and my sisters looked at each other. We're like, grandpa John died before I was born. I never met him. So we had to break it down to, I believed in the time that she did see her father, I wasn't gonna ruin her life by saying immediately, he's dead, but how to take her there? And she started crying as if it was the first time. She just found out her father died, regrieving this experience, just forgetting that her father died. And at that time, I was kind of calculating. I was like, I think she just had an experience. And as time went on one of the mornings I went back from the hospital, my sisters took my place. I got a text from my sister saying, hey, mom remembers seeing dad. And at that exact time, around 12pm When I got that text from my sister, I got a message on Instagram from a medium, Amber, that I had on the podcast that just randomly messaged me at the exact same timeframe. And she just sent a nice message, sending you love and light and kind of giving me permission to ask more questions. She needs to say, hey, your dad just contacted me. But I said, that's weird. You messaged me because my mom just said that she felt my dad, or she felt remembering that she just saw him while she was dead, while she was quote, unquote dead. And she said, wow, that's wild. You just told me, because your dad was just bothering me and said that your mom. Paraphrasing, but she said your mom's not supposed to be here. She's supposed to go back. And as much as I love her, I don't want to see her anytime soon. And I hope that she learns that she needs to start loving herself more than she starts loving other people, because my mom is always caring about other people a little, always worried about those people and other people as opposed to herself. So it was just a wild experience to me because she messaged me the exact same time that my dad. My mom remembered my father. And with the message that was similar to what she said she experienced, my dad sent her back. She had a message of that. So I think the timing of it is. Again, I go back and forth of the. The devil's advocate, is this real? Is this not? But when you put all those pieces together, I don't know what else to make of it.

[B]

I don't believe in coincidences, actually.

[A]

I don't either. Honestly. I don't either. And I feel like coincidences are just the meaning you give the moment.

[B]

Yeah, I used to, but now as I've gotten older and seen stuff happen like that, I'm like, all right, something's going on here.

[A]

You know, there's something in the air.

[B]

That's crazy. Was that Amber Kavanaugh?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She's been on the show.

[A]

Oh, yeah, she's great.

[B]

Yeah, dude. I mean, her life is crazy. She doesn't remember the past three years of her life.

[A]

So, I mean, that's wild.

[B]

Yeah. She wakes up every day thinking it's like 2020 or something.

[A]

I mean, I barely. I just almost lost my phone. So kind of relate. But not that. That extravagant.

[B]

Yeah, like, she told me, literally, she's not going to remember the podcast I was filming with her live.

[A]

That's scary.

[B]

Isn't that nuts?

[A]

That's. I mean, every day is a new day, I guess. But yeah, her story's wild because one of. With her story, there's a lot that I've learned from these experiences of near death experiences that are very similar. Like, a lot of the stuff that she's expressing I've heard from other people, and I feel like it's just a pattern. Is everyone saying the same thing for A reason, but it's something to question.

[B]

Yeah. You hear a lot of people saying they see loved ones, they see past pets that have been deceased.

[A]

Yeah, that's. And it's always deceased loved ones. When people say, oh, it's just. Maybe your brain, just this, that and the other. But when my mom had her near death, if you want to call it that, she didn't think of us. And my mom's only thinking of her kids, her nephews and her grandchildren. Like that is all that's on her mind. So you think someone in my mom's nature, for my personal example, if she's in this place and her mind is just taking her on this journey, that's not quote, unquote real. She'd be like thinking about me, my sisters, her neighbors. No, it's always deceased loved ones. So I feel like that alone again. It's just. I'm not saying this is so. But it makes me question. And these patterns again are just like. I don't know what else to say about it.

[B]

That's a good point. Cause no one's ever been like, oh, I saw my son who's still alive. When I was, you know, the only.

[A]

Example I heard, I forget who told me that, told me that they saw their dog, but the dog was still alive. So that was the first example of someone that was still alive. And it was their animal. But then that animal died like three days later. I think it was Amber. Whoa. I may be wrong.

[B]

Maybe the animal was having a near death experience to something along the lines.

[A]

Of the dog was trying to bark at something.

[B]

Damn. Well, they say dogs can sense spirits and stuff.

[A]

Yeah, they're tapped into something different.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Yeah, I think so too. My dog be barking at the wall. I'm like, fuck, is there a ghost there?

[A]

Yeah, maybe some of your somewhere, you know, I don't know who it is. Not the wall.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I believe in astral TR. Travel too.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know how that works. I understand it, but I don't know how. How do people do that?

[B]

Have you ever done psychedelics?

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

So have you done ayahuasca?

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Okay, so basically that's the best example I could think of. Basically your soul leaves your body and that's astral travel.

[A]

But how do people tap it? They tap into it intentionally or just happens through these processes.

[B]

Through psychedelics. It happens through that. But some people can control like it's called remote viewing. Have you heard?

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[B]

CIA. So they can control Their body to do that online command, which is nuts.

[A]

That I would like to tap into. Iowa is coming up soon.

[B]

I'm scared to do that one.

[A]

I'm terrified. But I want to do it.

[B]

You think it's calling you right now? They say it has to call you.

[A]

It's been calling me for a while, but I've been waiting for it to actually knock on my door. And I think. I think I'm in a good place now where I'd be ready. I just. I'm still going to be scared. Yeah, but I mean, just because you're scared doesn't mean you shouldn't do something.

[B]

And that's the important part. Right place, right time for psychedelics.

[A]

Right place, right time for more right place than I think even right time. My opinion.

[B]

Yeah. The setting's so important because I've had bad moments during trips where, like, some random kid will pull up. I'm like, yeah.

[A]

The first time I did mushrooms in high school, it was literally the worst. Well, not literally, but the worst environment I could have done. I remember I was waiting for it to kick in and some dude, Tyler, I don't know where the hell he is right now, but he was staring at me. I'm like, why is. First of all, why the fuck are you staring at me? Second, he goes, I heard people on mushrooms want to kill themselves. Like, thanks, man. Appreciate it. I'm 25 minutes about to have this experience, and that's what's in my head. I end up throwing up. It was a horrible experience. Time was going in reverse. It was horrible.

[B]

Yeah, I threw up too, once. Time. That was nasty.

[A]

Apparently that makes it more intense. It does. I don't know. Fact check that, but I thought it would get it out of my system. But now, looking back at it, after throwing up, it got even more intense. It doesn't make sense.

[B]

I've seen my friends have terrible trips, like, people think they're dying type trips.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks, Tyler. Just fucking Tyler.

[B]

Did you make him leave?

[A]

No. I could know it. I didn't have a thought. I didn't even thinking about that. I was just freaked out. I was just. I still see his eyes.

[B]

Oh, my God. Demonic, huh?

[A]

I wonder where he's at right now.

[B]

Yeah, you should hit him up.

[A]

No.

[B]

What's his last name?

[A]

I don't remember. It's always been Tyler. I see his face, though.

[B]

Shrooms are my favorite.

[A]

Shrooms are the best.

[B]

I still microdose.

[A]

I mean, now I'm at a point where I broke through, where now I'M just completely comfortable with it. But it took me some time because my first experience was horrendous. It's kind of a lesson of life. It's like you have those bad experiences and you work through it, and then eventually it turns out to be a blessing.

[B]

Right. Because some people would do that trip and then never do it again, which most people probably would.

[A]

Yeah. You get stuck. People get stuck in one specific event that ends up defining the rest of their life, which isn't the way to me.

[B]

Yeah. I. I think whenever I feel stuck in life, I do a little microdose and it really resets me. Dude.

[A]

And you're not even tripping. You're just kind of. Just balances you out.

[B]

Normal. Have you done a microdose?

[A]

Yeah, more. More than. Probably heavy doses, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah, same. I haven't done a heavy dose in seven, eight years.

[A]

I did a heavy dose a couple years ago. It was magic.

[B]

Yeah. Where was it?

[A]

Standard cliche. Went to Joshua Tree. Me and my buddy were like, let's have. We were both going through some, like, let's just get a nice house. Let's. You and me, we set everything up the right way. So again, the environment just, like, set us up perfectly. And then we went down this rabbit hole where we thought it was over. And then we were about to go to sleep, and next thing I know, we were just tripping balls for the next five hours. And it was. It was more fun than anything, but had a couple moments of. It was like a. It felt like a real situation where it was healing. But then everything outside of that was just more like a fun experience where he thought he met God. But that was. That's questionable.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of people say that when they trip.

[A]

Maybe that's true.

[B]

I think it's their interpretation of God.

[A]

He also had his face on a mirror. So unless God's in the mirror, I don't know. But my face is in the mirror at the same time. I'm skipping part of this story that's gonna make no sense. We were both in different rooms. I found out after I found him both had our face on a mirror. Just sound ridiculous for anyone who doesn't do mushrooms. But our face was on the mirror. Just. I don't even know what I was doing, but it was amazing. And then I walked in the other room and found him doing the exact same thing. Wow. Some weird thing going on there. Dude.

[B]

That's like rule number one not to look in the mirror when you're trying. I know.

[A]

That's why I did it. I remember that. I remember. Cause I remember the first experience I had. I looked in the mirror and it went all downhill. But I think again, it was me trying to push the limits and just see what I could handle. And it had been amazing.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

That's nuts. Yeah. I haven't done it. When I'm tripping, I'm too scared. They say you can notice every single detail.

[A]

It felt as if I was looking at myself, like you were looking at me. Like I saw myself, like, oh, this is what I look like. Maybe I didn't really look at it like that. I just saw myself in a mirror, knowing it was a mirror. But I felt as if I was looking at myself, like people see me.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, man. No, I'm big on this stuff, man. I. I'm trying to master lucid dreaming right now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And once I do that, lucid dreaming, how's that going? Terrible.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've been trying for eight years. It's tough, but once I master it, then you can start astral traveling on command.

[A]

Okay. So lucid dreaming is step one.

[B]

That's step one.

[A]

And you're sober doing that? Are you tapping in?

[B]

I do it, like, once a week. But you need to be doing it daily.

[A]

What is. I mean, I made. It's another conversation on the side. But what are the steps to approach that?

[B]

Dream journal, dream signal. So, like, time doesn't work in dreams. You constantly check your phone if the time's off, you know you're in a dream, There's a hand. One where you can't see your hand while you're dreaming for some reason, like the details. So just go like this once every five minutes in real life, and then you'll start doing it in your dreams.

[A]

Is that what Inception was? Kind of had that one item that would confirm if they're in the dream or not. Kind of what you're saying.

[B]

That's a great movie.

[A]

Fantastic movie.

[B]

Yeah. Fantastic movie. But. Yeah. Have you ever lucid dreamed?

[A]

Once, but it was by accident. And I remember I was calling things out. I was so immature at the time. But I remember I had on a boat, there's a party. I was like, oh, I wish there were more women here. And then all of a sudd women poofed. And I was like, oh, man, am I controlling this? I was like, I wish all these women wanted me. And all of a sudden, they were all pulling me. They were, like, all pulling me in. I was like, am I doing this? It's just like, part of the dream. And then nothing cool happened from there. But that was the closest I got.

[B]

Yeah. And it only lasts, like, 20 seconds once you're aware.

[A]

Yeah, it felt close. That was the closest I've ever gotten. There's been. There's been dreams where I've had. Where I was. I was aware I was in a dream, which is probably not the same thing, but multiple times I was aware I was in a dream, but every dream happened to be an impending death.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And I've always. You know, everyone has those dreams that you die at the end, but usually you wake up.

[B]

You can't, like, recreate death in your dreams. They say.

[A]

Yeah, and it happened. But there was one dream that I had. I still have no idea what it meant, but I remember I was on a balcony, overviewing, like, a city line. Like, it was New York and it looked like Independence Day. Like an alien ship got on top of the city, shot a beam of light down, and it exploded. But it was so far away that the cascading of the explosion was. Took time to get to us. I remember hearing screams all around me. I couldn't see anyone. My friend Sam was next to me, and we knew we were going to die, so I didn't run. I was like, oh, we're dead. We're dead anyway. I remember hugging her, telling her I love her. And then as the explosion approached me, I closed my eyes and waited for my death to come. Felt like a whisking of air, but I was expecting to wait. I thought I was going to wake up. But the dream continued for the first time where I died. And then everything went white and I felt myself rising up. And as I was rising up, remember hearing voices. But I didn't take note of what the voices were saying, but I heard voices speaking to me. And as I was rising up, I was like, oh, I'm dying, and I guess I'm going to heaven. But then I started thinking of hell. And as soon as I started thinking of hell. You played goldeneye as a kid?

[B]

No.

[A]

When you die, like, blood covers the screen. I felt the red coming from underneath, and it was battling the light and the darkness. There's a battle of back and forth, deciding if I was going to go to heaven and hell. Then eventually I woke up. But that was the closest I've gotten beyond death, if you will. But maybe I didn't die.

[B]

That's a dream. That's a trippy dream. A little bit, I believe. Dreams have meanings, I think.

[A]

I mean, yeah, I think right How? What else do we do?

[B]

Because whenever I have a trippy dream like that, I'll look it up and it would be so spot on to what I'm dealing with in real life.

[A]

It's like, yes. Our subconscious talking to us.

[B]

I think so, yeah.

[A]

95 of our subconscious we're not even aware of. So it's like just pulling that shit up. It's a matter, I guess, putting in the puzzle pieces of what it means.

[B]

Yeah. It actually helps me a lot in business.

[A]

How so?

[B]

Because I'll have dreams where, like, I'll crash a car and then I'll look it up. It'll be like, you're moving too fast in life. And I'll be like, all right, let me slow down.

[A]

Does it matter what car you're driving?

[B]

No, it's usually my actual car that I have in real life.

[A]

And you've slowed down and.

[B]

Actually, yeah, I slowed down. That dream went away. I had one last week where my friend or slash business partner crashed my car. So I looked up with that man, and then, like, I'm giving him too much control in the business.

[A]

And it's almost relatively obvious, too, if you really just looked at it. No.

[B]

Yeah. If you're just objective with it. But most people don't think to actually look up the meanings. But the classic one is, like, you running away from something in your dream, which means you're running away from your fear in real life. So the reason I tried to master lucid dreaming at first, before I even knew about astral projection, was because I used to have nightmares every night and I wanted to fight back. I used to be running away from a big, scary monster.

[A]

It was. How long ago was this?

[B]

High school. Every night in high school.

[A]

I'm sorry, what was the monster in real life?

[B]

It was like I was running away from fear of public judgment.

[A]

And you had to determine what the fear was or the dream told you that?

[B]

The dream didn't tell me. No. It was just a shadowless big figure that. And, you know you run mad slow in your dreams.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I was like, I. Fuck this. Let me, like, fight back.

[A]

What about you seem to know more than I do. What about tidal waves and water? That's how I used to die in my dreams.

[B]

So that could either be you died in a past life. Drowning, which is common, actually. I know a lot of people that's happened to. Or something else. I'd have to look that one up.

[A]

Probably a pretty common fear, but definitely drowning freaks me out.

[B]

Do you have that fear in Real.

[A]

Life, when I think about it, yeah.

[B]

So you probably had a past. Have you done past life therapy before?

[A]

I done. I've tried it once and she didn't get me anywhere.

[B]

I tried it three times. Didn't work twice. Tried it with a new girl and it blew my mind.

[A]

I need to try it again. I actually paid for five sessions. After one, I forgot. I have to get those four more sessions out, I think.

[B]

Gotta hit her up. Was that the hypnosis version or was it a different version?

[A]

It was hypnosis version. We did it remotely, which I already didn't feel comfortable with. I thought, I feel like I'm more comfortable. I feel like that person. But, yeah, I didn't go anywhere. And then she was kind of shocked that she didn't. But I did give her a warning that I feel like I have this weird blockage that I feel like I'm always chasing to break through. And I haven't defined even what that blockage is. I think it's a form of letting go, but I still haven't decided what I'm even. What I even have to let go.

[B]

Could be a past life thing too. I had some past life trauma that I had to clear up.

[A]

I feel. I mean, I've always said I've. I've thought I've. I'm an old soul. A lot of people say that. Like, I've just kind of said it lackadaisically. And then Amber again, she keeps coming up. She said, oh, I can see people through soul. Ages. Meaning, not biological ages, like by ages of soul. And I said, so I'm just curious, how old do you think I am? She's like, well, there's no number to it, but if I had to do it from 0 to 100, I say you're like a solid 77. Like, oh, that sounds right. I got some time left, but I've been around the block.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe I've drowned a few times.

[B]

You give me old soul vibes, man.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

That's a compliment.

[A]

Was it the shirt?

[B]

The shirt's a banger.

[A]

Is that what it is? The shirt gives you all soul vibes.

[B]

Good cartoon man.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

Yeah, Cartoons don't hit like that anymore.

[A]

No. And I need to watch it again because, you know, when you look at old cartoons, you realize the real, like the. A lot of this hidden messages, like now, you know, the wokeness. If you want to say I'm curious to see if there was any hidden shit that's really messed up Yeah, I.

[B]

Feel like there wasn't as many back then, but we could be biased since it's our era.

[A]

Yeah, I need to look back at.

[B]

It, but this era, I mean, it's blatant. I just tried watching Beauty and the Beast last night. I'm like, I can't even watch this.

[A]

Why? What do you say?

[B]

Just like, they pushed the LGBTQ stuff, dude.

[A]

In the new versions.

[B]

I don't know about that movie specifically, but, yeah. And a lot of the new Disney movies and stuff.

[A]

Yeah. They said these. They're planning all these different things. I've never realized when I look back, a certain ones like, oh, fuck, that was there.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want my kids watching that shit. Personally, I don't even have kids yet.

[A]

But, yeah, that's a whole other rabbit hole of what I'm going to do with that. But kind of good myself right now.

[B]

You leaning towards now. It sounds like I'm fine.

[A]

I don't really. I'm. You know, if I meet the right woman that I'm open, like, she might just change my mind, but I'm either way, like, I'm down to have kids. I'm also down not to, but I think if I met the right woman, I'd be like, oh, no, we definitely.

[B]

Do you live in L. A?

[A]

Yeah, I live in L. A, but I'm trying to get back to New York, so.

[B]

L. A just got voted the worst dating market in America.

[A]

I mean, I hear that anecdotally. I don't. It makes sense, I guess, looking at L. A from a distance, I haven't had that many. I'm in a horrible experience.

[B]

Okay, well, you also have a big podcast and dating. Yeah. In L. A? Come on.

[A]

I guess. I mean, it depends who I'm talking. Like, what do you do for a living? I talk about death. Like, what? I have to explain it. Ironic. I remember I was out with my buddy, we started talking to a girl, and she was asking what we do. I was like, I just. I don't know. I'm just. Sometimes I don't want to talk. It's like, what do you do? Like, I talk about death. And she was, like, disgusted at it. Yeah. But I talk about. It's more healing this, that, and the other. And my other buddy Alex, who's a really big podcast behind the scenes on some really big work, does true crime stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And as soon as he said that, she's like, oh, my God, Interesting. I'm like, okay, so murder and grotesque serial killers is more interesting. To you than the healing aspect of confronting death. Like, we got this shit backwards.

[B]

True crime slaps, bro.

[A]

It does. It is interesting. I'm not knocking that. It was just ironic. That's part of the tabooness I'm trying to break is this. When it comes to real death, even though serial killers is real death, it just feels distant because people haven't experienced that. Right. But when you're talking about normal death, quote unquote, that's more close to you. I think people are more scared of that.

[B]

Yeah. I think they don't want to open up maybe, Right?

[A]

No. And I'm like, what? Like, this is the. What is more. They say death in taxes, but not everyone pays taxes. Like, death is the only thing that brings us together. As scary as it is, that's the one thing I could look at. I'm like, oh, you're going to die. You're going to die. You've lost people. You've probably lost people. It's unifying in a way, and I think it's freeing once you are able to confront it.

[B]

Yeah. It's inevitable. Unless you're Brian Johnson.

[A]

I've been trying to get him. Yeah. That's a whole.

[B]

It'd be a perfect fit for your show.

[A]

I know. It's like almost the. It's the opposite almost. So I'm gonna plan on getting him on at some point.

[B]

Yeah. Because your show talks about accepting death and he's like, nah, that.

[A]

Yeah. I'm curious why I wouldn't. I don't even want to live that long. I'm like, I'm really. If I get to 80, I'm probably good. Unless I'm. I can maintain my fitness. I'm cool with that. My brain outside of that, I'm like, yeah, 80 years sounds good.

[B]

I'm careful with throwing out numbers just because of, first of all, the advancements in technology. But second of all, my dad would always say, yo, I'm. I'm going to 60 and I'm done. Wow. And then he did it, and I was like, damn. He manifested that.

[A]

He went 60.

[B]

64. Yeah.

[A]

How long ago was this?

[B]

This was three years ago.

[A]

How you feeling?

[B]

It was tough at first, and I was, like, so afraid to show emotion around it, to be honest. Like, I didn't even want to cry.

[A]

What made you fearful of the emotion?

[B]

I've always been like that. I never showed emotion around people growing up.

[A]

And three years in, have you felt as if you've embraced the emotional? Are you still kind of in the same place?

[B]

I've embraced it more, probably not as much as I should have, because we get caught up in work. So I just tried to work it away and put on the back burner for a bit.

[A]

You say you still feel like it's on the back burner A little bit.

[B]

But I've worked on it. I've talked to people about it, talk to psychics. I've talked to, like, emotional experts.

[A]

So talking about it feels like it helps.

[B]

Yeah. Podcasting is a form of therapy, man.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. And that's why I've saw a therapist maybe once or twice, and then he told me he was retiring, so I was like, oh, I'm too fucked up for you. So besides that, I never went back. And I feel like my podcast has been healing for me. But what I'm thinking, this isn't me telling you what to do, because everyone has their own grief recipe, if you will. And I think I found the patterns of all these people I've talked. And even with myself, a first step. I feel like whether it takes a year, three years, 10 years, it's different for everyone. There's no timeline to grief, in my opinion, but that first moment where you can face it and truly let yourself feel as cliche as it is, and cliches are there for a reason. That tends to be the first step of that healing process. Whether you'll fully be healed or not, can't tell you that. But once you start embracing that emotions, because constantly we do push it off, we got shit to do, life goes on. But you can live and grieve. And I think there's a balancing aspect to living and grieving because you have to be able to do both. And there's a duality to it and a pendulum that you never going to find the perfect balance. But I think you have to attempt.

[B]

Yeah. Because you don't want to get too caught up in grief.

[A]

No, you don't want to get too caught up, but it is important to. To. Yeah. Get caught up in a sense of allowing yourself to feel it and allow it to pass in that moment and then continue on because life is going to keep going whether you want to or not. A lot of people do get stuck in that place and forget to live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's hard to live when you feel like you lost purpose because the person you lost gave you purpose. And it's just. It's a convoluted smorgasbord of every emotion possible.

[B]

It is. And I know a lot of people watching this probably hate on psychics. But getting that closure for me was huge, to be honest.

[A]

What closure did you get?

[B]

So he took his own life. And part of me felt responsible for that for not, like, keeping more contact with him. He was very lonely, had autism and stuff, lived by himself, had no friends. So just. I talked to two or three different psychics to get in touch with him, and just seeing why he did what he did, you know, felt like finally could close that door.

[A]

And how were you able to feel verified in that they were contacting your dad?

[B]

That's why I did two or three.

[A]

And they all. They all.

[B]

All said the same thing.

[A]

No.

[B]

Also, I told none of them it was a suicide beforehand.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So they wouldn't have known that. And it wasn't published anywhere because what happened was he left the psych ward, and they didn't even rule his death a suicide, which is up. They probably do this to a lot of people, but he overdosed on medications.

[A]

Damn, man. Well, I appreciate you sharing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you mind if I ask you what gave you the closure specifically? There was a reason as to that. Took it off your own, took it off your back, kind of.

[B]

He basically couldn't handle the meds anymore. His body was shaking and he just wanted it to end. But it didn't have much to do with me. I thought it was like me, Honestly.

[A]

I feel like that's a natural response. Close to someone like that, that guilt, I can't. I can't imagine how overwhelming.

[B]

And he had attempts in the past. He always struggled with mental stuff. When you're that smart, dude, it's dangerous. 160 IQ.

[A]

Yeah, I'm probably nowhere near that. But sometimes I wish, like, the ignorance is bliss thing is definitely a real aspect, because sometimes I get too deep in my thoughts and analytical. Then sometimes it's just. You just got to shut up and simplify everything we're doing because you go too deep down that rabbit hole.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's. I don't think it's healthy. Yeah, I mean, healthy examination, like you have to examine your life, but at some point, I think we go too deep and. And you got to show yourself a little grace.

[B]

Yeah. When you're that smart, you need similar people around you. The problem is he's one out of 50,000 people with that IQ level. So it's really hard to make friends. If you live in a town of 50,000, there's going to be no one there for you.

[A]

So you're so isolated.

[B]

Soup. I saw him. He was very lonely. He Relied on drugs a lot of his life to get by drug addiction. He drank a 30 pack of beer a day. Yeah. Smoked a pack of cigarettes a day at least. Yeah. He was. He had a lot of addictions, man.

[A]

Yeah. And then I guess that goes back to the idea of escapism for the. The root of the issue, if you will.

[B]

Yeah. That's why escapism, for me, I try to be as holistic as possible.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Even though I have a very addictive personality.

[A]

I do too.

[B]

Super. Yeah.

[A]

You see the way I'm drinking my coffee.

[B]

Luckily, I could channel it to podcasting right now, which is great for business.

[A]

Yeah. 14 episodes. What if 14 a week.

[B]

So my record's 23 in a day.

[A]

Is that again? Is there a Guinness Book up there?

[B]

I'm actually looking into applying for one this year. So 23 in a day, 52 in three days, 100 in a week. That's my record for daily and weekly.

[A]

That's. I don't know how you do that.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's not easy, but it's fun. You can. You can attest to that. Podcasting is a very fun position to have.

[A]

It really is. I mean, there's not many opportunities in the day to day life where you get to sit in front of someone, talk to them about whatever you're talking about and hone in and tap in and like regardless. And there's no distractions. It's just this, that and the other person and it's. People don't do that these days. I feel like as much.

[B]

No, I'm on my phone half the time these days.

[A]

And that's why it's great to shut my phone. That's why I think the podcasting aspect has externalized in my own life where I feel like I'm a better listener now. As opposed to thinking of the next thing to say, as opposed to looking who's walking through the door looking at my phone. I put it aside as if this is a podcast only no one's listening except us. And it just makes you more present because I think the past is on. The future hasn't happened. And literally every moment we have right now is the only moment we have.

[B]

Absolutely, man. Yeah. Because I look at my screen time and it's scary.

[A]

Same.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Terrifying.

[B]

Nine hours a day for me.

[A]

I don't know. Mine is at. Maybe I haven't looking at it much, but it's not healthy.

[B]

It's not healthy.

[A]

It's a good night's sleep on My phone.

[B]

Yeah. I can't even watch a movie now without checking my phone. It's not bad.

[A]

I've noticed that too. I have to. I want to get rid of it. I can't wait till all my shit's handled, like, right now. You know, I have a couple people handing my social media, but I just want to get it completely handled so I really don't have to tap into that world because it is. It's technology now is great. It's helpful in many ways, but it is not good at the same time.

[B]

No, it's not. I'm gonna do a dopamine detox this year. Have you heard about just.

[A]

No.

[B]

No devices are anything that causes dopamine. So, like sex, whatever, for three days.

[A]

That's good. I would like to do that.

[B]

Yeah. And there you could take it next level. You could do a darkness cave retreat.

[A]

I've heard about that.

[B]

Yeah. So you're in the dark for three to five days.

[A]

What do you do?

[B]

Nothing. Just meditate. Can't eat. Can't do anything.

[A]

No mushrooms?

[B]

No. That'd be trippy, though. You'd be tripping balls in there with that dark.

[A]

Well, I've been in a isolation tank on my.

[B]

Oh, a float tank.

[A]

Yeah, I've done that too. That was wild. I spent more time on the floor naked in the shower than isolation tank. That's a whole. Another conversation.

[B]

You were tripping. Tripping, yeah.

[A]

Then I walked five miles home. I don't know what the. I. I spend a lot of time by myself, and that's clearly one of them.

[B]

I've struggled with loneliness the majority of my life. Being an only child, I'm the.

[A]

I. I'm. I don't know if I felt lonely. I feel. I wonder if I've chased loneliness because I do travel alone by myself, until that other person comes in my life. Of course, that'll change. But I've traveled by myself. I spend time by myself. I'm extroverted.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I. I feel like I need that alone time. I just need that alone time. I don't know. I like silence. I like not talking, even though I talk for a living.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think. I think being comfortable yourself is the first step to being comfortable with someone else.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. Wow. You travel by yourself. Not a lot of people do that. That's interesting.

[A]

Not. Not Americans. When every time I travel, I meet. Europeans are constantly by themselves and they think we're the weirdos. Like, how long you been town for like, maybe three weeks. Like, that's it. I'm like, what do you mean? Americans are the opposite. Americans are just. I don't know.

[B]

Three weeks is gnarly. By day five, I'm like get bored honestly.

[A]

I mean I meet people along the way, but I like, I like getting into adventures where sometimes it's a weird feeling because I feel that loneliness sometimes when I've traveled and I've done it enough now where. Okay. I would like companion at this point in my life. I just took a trip by myself where I met friends. I wasn't totally alone. When you find those alone moments, it is a little bit of an eerie feeling. But it's. It gets you to sit in an uncomfortable place. And I partially like uncomfortable places. Even though I don't like it in the moment, I embrace what's uncomfortable because to me, uncomfortable moments are where the gold is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that's where everything is found.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just got to kind of put yourself through that. And I think that's just how I've kind of journeyed through my life. For better or for worse.

[B]

Yeah. Those uncomfortable moments suck in the moment, but they're so crucial for growth.

[A]

You need. I mean, you have to be uncomfortable. If you're comfortable, how the hell are you going to. You're just not going to do anything. You're not going to move, you're not going to try to make a change. And I think being uncomfortable, whether it be trauma, grief, life shit, you literally need that to grow. It's just a reminder that you might have to change. Just a reminder to what's. What should be your priority in life. And I think if you avoid it and try to run away from it and be escapist within uncomfortable moments, then it's going to be tough to learn.

[B]

Yeah. Which is a default response for most people to escape it.

[A]

Yeah. Because we think we're. I think there's this innate survival mechanism or defense mechanisms, if you will, to get out of uncomfortable situations biologically or mentally, because it's. This is uncomfortable. This isn't normal. We're in survival, fight or flight mode. But I think it's in order. We have to embrace it at the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's a balancing act to kind of counteract what your body's telling you.

[B]

That's been the biggest thing I've been working on lately because I have an avoidant personality. Have you taken that test? Shows like your attachment style.

[A]

I don't know if I've taken the test, but someone concluded that I was whatever that Means you was what I was. I am an avoidant.

[B]

Oh, you're avoiding.

[A]

Someone died. Someone told me that. I was like, I don't know what that means.

[B]

That's impressive. If they could do that without.

[A]

What is it talking. What does that mean? What does that mean exactly? Besides the nature?

[B]

So when there's conflict, you avoid it. So basically, oh, I have it because of childhood trauma.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I got yelled at. I would go to my room. I wouldn't argue back.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

There's secure attachment, there's avoidant, there's anxious attachment. And there's one more.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know what. I don't think I avoid conflict. It depends. In certain scenarios, I think conflict should be avoided. They just. No need to confront it because you're just not going to change the other person's mind. Yeah, I just nod and say, okay, and then I'm. Then I'm done. But then there's conflict that should be faced head on.

[B]

Agreed. But being avoided. Business has screwed me out of so much money and, like, so many business accolades. So I've been working on that.

[A]

How are you avoidant in business?

[B]

Like, anytime there's a confrontation, I just shut down.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[B]

So I need to actually, like, stand.

[A]

On your own kind of. Yeah.

[B]

Hold my ground type stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because people would just walk all over me.

[A]

Yeah. I think I've been before the podcast, still, technically, I still handle real estate, but I think that taught me a lot in regards to the negotiation aspect, specifically with business, where it's the back and forth and when to be passive, when to be aggressive. Kind of taught me about life a lot, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah. So you made your money before the pod.

[A]

Yeah, as an agent, just representing buyers and sellers. I'm still technically doing that, but I'm in a transitionary phase of getting the podcast. That next next level. Yeah, it's doing great, but it's not. It's not there yet where I can fully step aside. And it's getting there, which is fantastic. But real estate is still technically my day job. I just. For the last year or two, I've really just kind of turned that switch off.

[B]

That's cool, man. Who's your dream guest? You got a list?

[A]

I got a lot.

[B]

I mean, my list is 17 pages.

[A]

17 pages?

[B]

Yeah, it's nuts.

[A]

I mean, I could. I don't even know if I could put a 17 page. I mean, again, I have people in my head that I can draw. I mean, Pete Davidson's one of them. Just because he's a 911 boy. And I think that, oh, I didn't know that he lost his dad on 911 too. So from my personal, it'd be a good conversation because he's been so public about it. And I haven't sat down with someone who lost someone to 9 11. I really geared towards the comedians. I really want Theo Vaughn on the show. Any of those big guys. Honestly, Keanu Reeves is a. Is high on my list. Keanu Reeves would be legend. He's gone through a lot of loss from my experience. Jim Carrey will be another one. But outside of that, I mean, I'm down to talk to anyone for the most part, but I would say those are. Those are my big fish.

[B]

Meetings are fun. I just had Joe Gato on Nice. I could put you in touch with him.

[A]

That'd be awesome.

[B]

Yeah. I love trading guests with other podcasts. Where could people watch your show?

[A]

People can watch my show wherever you get your podcasts. YouTube, you can get it on social media, any of the platforms. Look up Dead Talks, podcasts, Apple, Spotify, yada, yada, yada.

[B]

Perfect. We'll link below. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

I appreciate bud. Thank you so much.

[B]

See you guys.