The $1B Mistake in Your Pantry: Seed Oil Truth Exposed | Steven Rofrano DSH #1028

Summary

Digital Social Hour Episode Summary Title: The $1B Mistake in Your Pantry: Seed Oil Truth Exposed | Steven Rofrano DSH #1028
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Steven Rofrano, Co-Founder of Masa
Release Date: December 28, 2024

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly sits down with Steven Rofrano, the co-founder of Masa, to delve deep into the hidden truths about seed oils and their pervasive presence in our food supply. The conversation navigates through the intricacies of food labeling, the impact of industrial practices on health, and the ethical considerations of modern food production.

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1. Hidden Seed Oils in Everyday Foods

The episode kicks off with a discussion about the deceptive labeling practices surrounding seed oils. Steven shares an eye-opening story about Tyson's frozen chicken fingers being fried in soybean oil for merely 10 seconds, a duration short enough to exempt the oil from being listed on the label.

Steven Rofrano [00:01]: “Because it's less than 10 seconds or whatever, it doesn't have to go on the label. And so these people are, like, eating soy fried chicken fingers and they don't even realize it.”

This revelation highlights the widespread lack of transparency in food labeling, leaving consumers unaware of the harmful ingredients they consume regularly.

2. Masa’s Commitment to Real, Healthy Foods

Steven introduces Masa's mission to provide healthier snack options by using real, recognizable ingredients devoid of industrial additives.

Sean Kelly [00:32]: “One of the healthier products I've seen.”

Steven Rofrano [00:34]: “There's a lot of stuff out there, but I think we managed to get the best combination of, like, actually real food in the bag.”

Masa differentiates itself from many health foods that rely on obscure ingredients, striving instead for simplicity and authenticity akin to traditional home cooking.

3. The Controversy Over Seed Oils and Mainstream Science

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the detrimental effects of seed oils and the flawed mainstream scientific stance that has historically favored them over saturated fats.

Steven Rofrano [02:27]: “The Yuka app thinks that saturated fat is bad for you... it’s based on the mainstream opinion of the American Heart Association and all the sort of fake science that’s been paid for by the vegetable oil industry since the 1950s.”

Steven critiques the long-standing belief that unsaturated fats are healthier, pointing out that this perspective is heavily influenced by industry-funded research rather than unbiased science.

4. Flaxseed: From Industrial Use to Health Food Fad

The discussion shifts to flaxseeds, exploring their industrial origins and recent rebranding as a health superfood.

Steven Rofrano [05:02]: “Flax seeds come from the plant that makes linen fabric... the seeds have a lot of unsaturated fats oils in them... Starting in the 90s, they began marketing as health food.”

Steven explains how flaxseeds, once primarily used for industrial purposes, have been repackaged as a nutritious option, despite their high unsaturated fat content aligning with the problematic seed oil profile.

5. Water Contamination: Fluoride and Well vs. Tap Water

The conversation addresses the contamination of water sources with fluoride and heavy metals, emphasizing the health risks associated with polluted water.

Steven Rofrano [05:58]: “The well water is somewhat high in arsenic, which... it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. But it's certainly way better than tap water.”

Steven advocates for the importance of clean water, contrasting well water's relative purity with the widespread contamination found in municipal supplies.

6. Plastic Contamination in Food Packaging

A critical segment discusses how plastics in food packaging can leach harmful chemicals into food, especially when exposed to heat or in contact with fatty substances.

Steven Rofrano [08:00]: “Heat accelerates chemical reactions... plastics will dissolve more quickly into fats... minimize things where plastic is involved with heat, fats, and liquids.”

Steven highlights the dangers of plastic packaging, particularly in products like chips, where even minimal contact can result in significant chemical contamination.

7. Masa’s Ethical Manufacturing Practices

Masa's dedication to avoiding plastic contamination is a focal point, showcasing their commitment to customer health over profit.

Steven Rofrano [12:04]: “We had to get custom made flexible stainless steel hoses... it shows you guys are willing to put ethics ahead of profits.”

By investing in stainless steel components for their machinery, Masa ensures that their products remain free from plastic contaminants, demonstrating their ethical stance in the food industry.

8. Seed Oil Scout App and Transparent Food Choices

The duo discusses the Seed Oil Scout app, a tool designed to help consumers identify and avoid seed oils in their food purchases.

Steven Rofrano [13:18]: “We went to one last night. It was a good restaurant.”

The app not only assists consumers in making informed choices but also supports restaurants in maintaining transparency about their ingredients.

9. The Problem with Fast Food Ingredient Lists

Sean and Steven critique the complexity and opacity of fast food ingredient lists, advocating for clearer labeling in the restaurant industry.

Sean Kelly [16:03]: “Ingredient labels are pretty good in the US... It’d be great if restaurants also had ingredient labels too.”

They argue that transparent ingredient labeling in restaurants would empower consumers to make healthier decisions and hold food providers accountable.

10. Future Plans for Masa and Closing Remarks

In concluding the episode, Steven shares Masa’s expansion plans and invites listeners to support their mission by purchasing through their website or upcoming retail partnerships.

Steven Rofrano [19:11]: “By the end of 2026, we should be all over Whole Foods and a bunch of other grocers.”

He emphasizes the importance of accessible healthy food options and expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share Masa’s vision.

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Key Takeaways:

• Transparency in Food Labeling: Many food products contain hidden seed oils that are not listed on labels due to loopholes in labeling laws.
• Health Implications of Seed Oils: Seed oils are highly toxic and incompatible with human biology, contributing to various health issues.
• Ethical Manufacturing: Companies like Masa prioritize health and transparency, even at higher costs, to ensure product safety.
• Consumer Empowerment: Tools like the Seed Oil Scout app and potential restaurant ingredient labeling can help consumers make informed dietary choices.
• Industry Reform Needed: There's a pressing need to hold food manufacturers and restaurants accountable for the ingredients they use, promoting overall public health.

This episode serves as an eye-opener for listeners, urging them to scrutinize food labels, be aware of hidden ingredients, and support ethical food brands that prioritize health and transparency.

Transcript

[A]

Put it on the label.

[B]

What?

[A]

So Tyson was selling these frozen chicken fingers or whatever, and there was no oil on the label. And so some of these seed oil people called them and said, are you sure there's no seed oils on here? And the customer service said, actually, no, we fry them in soybean oil for 10 seconds.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But because it's less than 10 seconds or whatever, it doesn't have to go on the label. And so these people are, like, eating soy fried chicken fingers and they don't even realize it.

[B]

All right, guys, Stephen Refrano, co founder of Masa. And it's a great product, dude. Thanks for coming on.

[A]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[B]

One of the healthier products I've seen.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's. There's a lot of stuff out there, but I think we managed to get the best combination of, like, actually real food in the bag.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of health foods are like. They have weird ingredients no one's ever heard of. They just sound healthy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But this is like how your grandma might have made it 200 years ago or something.

[B]

No seed oils. Right?

[A]

No seed oils.

[B]

And you use beef tallow. Is it grass fed? Which costs a lot. So people gotta realize.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's not a cheap thing to make.

[A]

It's like, I think five times the price of seed oils.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like per pound or whatever.

[B]

Nuts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not trying to call out any brands, but when you go to the grocery stores and you buy tortilla chips, a lot of them use pretty poor ingredients.

[A]

Yeah, Pretty much all of them. And the crazy thing is, if you look at the labels, it'll say canola and. Or sunflower and. Or safflower. It's like they don't even distinguish. Like, they don't even know it's in their own.

[B]

And. Or.

[A]

Yeah. And. Or. What if I said honey and. Or sugar and. Or maple syrup and. Or stevia.

[B]

You know, it's crazy what they could get away with. With labels.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they'll rename certain ingredients.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I heard. Okay. I heard this really interesting thing on Twitter the other day. Basically, if you fry something in oil for less than 10 seconds, you don't have to put it on the label. What? So Tyson was selling these frozen chicken fingers or whatever, and there was no oil on the label. And so some of these seed oil people called them and said, are you sure there's no seed oils on here? And the customer service said, actually, no, we fry them in soybean oil for 10 seconds. Wow. But because it's less than 10 seconds or whatever. It doesn't have to go on the label. And so these people are like eating soy fried chicken fingers and they don't even realize it. Yeah.

[B]

So what about organic seed oils? Is there a difference?

[A]

Technically, the only difference is that the root crop was grown organically.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But the main reason seed oils are bad is not necessarily because the pesticides that they're. Like the actual plant is grown with. The oil itself is pretty highly toxic. It's just incompatible with human biology for a whole host of reasons that we can get into if you want. Yeah. But whether they're organic or not, it doesn't change the core thing that makes it all as bad.

[B]

Have you used the Yuka app on this?

[A]

The Yuka app. So the Yuka app thinks that saturated fat is bad for you.

[B]

Saturn fat.

[A]

Saturated fat.

[B]

Saturated.

[A]

Yeah. So the UK basically thinks seed oils are good for you. Yeah, it's. It's based on. I can't fault them in particular, but it's based on, like, the mainstream opinion of the American Heart association and all the sort of fake science that's been paid for by the vegetable oil industry since the 1950s, which is that, of course, cholesterol is bad. Unsaturated fat, which is seed oils, is good for you. Saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. And that's been the mainstream opinion of doctors for the past 70 years. But it's all based on very corrupt science. Yeah, there's some good books that go into this. I don't know if you even have her on your show. Nina Teicholtz wrote the Big Fat Surprise, which details the history of how the corrupt food industry paid for studies to basically say seed oils are good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's kind of crazy.

[B]

How can they frame the study in that way? Like, what exactly was the study?

[A]

Yeah. So this is. So there's a. Interesting. I forget what they call this. It's basically like a. A proxy. Right. So if doctors establish, hey, this thing is good, then they can say something else causes this thing, and then that something else is considered good. Right. I'll give you an example. So if they established cholesterol as bad, that we should lower cholesterol, they don't have to say that doing this thing makes you healthier or causes less death or makes you live longer. All they have to do is say this thing causes lower cholesterol. And because we know that lower cholesterol is good, this thing is also good. And that's kind of what they did with the seed oil studies. So based on some other kind of crazy science, they established cholesterol's bad and it should be minimized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They figured out, hey, if we feed people vegetable oils, their cholesterol levels, which are seed oils are. By the way, if we feed people seed oils, their cholesterol levels decrease and therefore seed oils are good. The thing is though, the people in the group that they fed the seed oils to died more and more quickly.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Which is insane. But they of course failed to publish that part of the result. But they published that it lowered cholesterol. And because everyone knows that cholesterol is bad, it was considered good. I think that's the Minnesota prisoners experiment or something.

[B]

Yeah, the cholesterol study got a lot of people, especially with the egg yolks.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's like super crazy. It's crazy what they do. Like every headline from some magazine like Time or whatever is egg yolks are bad, egg yolks are good and egg yolks are bad again. And it's so confusing to people.

[B]

Super confusing. And every time there's a new superfood. It's usually not a superfood.

[A]

No, it's usually some industrial waste products.

[B]

Yeah, I remember acai was a big one for a bit.

[A]

Yeah. The flax, right?

[B]

Yeah, flax.

[A]

Flax is. So people really know this, but the flax seeds come from the plant that. The same plant that makes linen fabric.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, like linen shirts, you know, whatever. So the fibers are spun to make fabric and the seeds, they have a lot of unsaturated fats oils in them. For a long time in Europe, like flax was grown for its fabric exclusively.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The seeds were maybe given animals or whatever. They also use the oils and the seeds to make oil based painting. So like the paint that Da Vinci used to paint the Michelangelo or not the Michelangelo, the what is the Mona. The Mona freaking Michelangelo. The Mona Lisa. He used flaxseed oil to paint the Mona Lisa. Yeah, flaxseed oil based paint, because that's what it was used for. But over time, acrylic paints and other sort of synthetics replaced the natural uses for flaxseed oil. And so then Europe was left with this abundance of flaxseeds they didn't know what to do with. And then Starting in the 90s, they began marketing as health food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But flaxseeds were never widely consumed by people prior to that.

[B]

That's so crazy.

[A]

Yeah. So it's like thing with fluoride in the water. Right. I believe the sodium hexafluoride or whatever, that's a byproduct of the aluminum refining industry. And so some dentist figured out fluoride is good. The thing they. The form of fluoride they studied to say that wasn't even the same fluoride that they put in the water. That form of fluoride was the thing that comes from the aluminum industry. And so now we have this industrial product getting put into the water telling everyone it's healthy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that happens way, shockingly, way more often than you think.

[B]

And the skin is the largest organ. People are bathing in fluoride water.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's horrible. I have a shower filter.

[B]

Same you have to these days.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It smells disgusting. I remember when. So I grew up on a house, that well water and the water was great. We don't have to worry about this. When I went to college, the water smelled like a indoor pool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I would get in the shower and like, it's. I'm going swimming right now. It's horrible.

[B]

Well water. I want to talk about that. Because there's a thing when the water still. Where bacteria can grow. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Well, so the idea with well water is that, um, the water trickles through the. The dirt, the sand, the bedrock, and then it filters all the way into these giant aquifers where there's no light and whatever. And so it's very clean. Yeah. At least in the US the way we have relatively little pollution in our wells. Obviously some exceptions for places where there's fracking. There's very minimal bacterial contamination in well water. Right. This isn't an open well like in the Middle Ages where you dropped a bucket in, you know, and like, some animal could fall and die and pollute the well. This isn't that. It's, like, pumped up from underground and it's relatively clean. The only thing is that depending on where you are, there could be some metal contaminants in the water.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So where I grew up, I learned this much later. The well water is somewhat high in arsenic, which. Okay. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. But it's certainly way better than top water.

[B]

Yeah. Heavy metals is really bad for the body because you can't detox your body if you have too many heavy metals in it.

[A]

It's hard. Yeah. And like in sauna. Right. Like. But it only goes so fast.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of saunas. Any. Any plastics in this product. In the bag.

[A]

Well, the bag is made of plastic.

[B]

Okay. But that's not leaching, is it?

[A]

Well, okay, yeah. So the thing about plastics, and people should learn about plastic contamination. Plastics are everywhere. They're somewhat unavoidable in the modern day, but you have to understand what causes a higher rate of plastic leaching. And so one everyone learns in chemistry class, heat accelerates chemical reactions. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you have food in a plastic Tupperware, not ideal. But if you put that plastic Tupperware in a microwave, that heat increases the rate at which the plastic leaches into the food.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Another thing is that plastic leeches more into foods that are similar chemical structure. So, like, fatty foods have the same chemical nature as plastics. And so plastics will dissolve more quickly into fats.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And the last. So like olive oil in a plastic bottle. Like, come on. And then the worst thing is, or the next big thing is like, surface area. It all just like everyone learns chemistry class things that accelerate chemical reactions. The more surface area between the plastic and your thing, the faster it dissolves. So water bottles made of plastic. You know, the entire surface of the water in the pla. In the bottle is being. Is touching the plastic. So that's an ideal. So basically, you want to minimize things where plastic is involved with heat, fats, and liquids. So chips are neither of these things. We put the chips in the bag when they're cool. They're not a liquid. They're fatty, of course. But like, the plastic touching the chip is a very tiny little point. It's not ideal, I'll give you that. The only other alternative would be to use like, tin coffee can type things.

[B]

But that'd be way more expensive, which.

[A]

Would be way more expensive, way more wasteful.

[B]

I get it from a business point of view. And even for Walmart water, because you only drink it once, it's kind of like that. This bottle, you know, probably costs like a dollar or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, glass bottles are expensive. I mean, and you can recycle them and whatever, but, like, there's. There's no industry of packaged foods coming in tin cans.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I mean, the other thing with cans, too, like a Campbell soup can, you think, or even a can like a soda or something, you think, oh, it's. It's metal. It's not plastic. No, cans are lined with plastic because they're. Yeah. These drink cans are made of aluminum, and if you put Coca Cola in aluminum, in a pure aluminum can, it will dissolve the aluminum.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so they line the cans with this little tiny little film. And you can look at. People do this on YouTube all the time. They'll dissolve a soda can in like drain cleaner or something and they'll pick it up and the aluminum's gone. And it looks like this condom filled with Coca Cola. It's like this plastic liner. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Disgusting.

[A]

Yeah. So it's like you drink out of can, you're drinking plastic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Liquid death. Not to call them out in particular. Plastic free. Whatever. No, it's lined with plastic. Every can is lined.

[B]

Plus their actual water is. They tested their water.

[A]

It's not the best. Yeah.

[B]

I like that you take quality like these are made in America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You guys take the quality really serious.

[A]

Yeah, we make them by hand in Jersey. Oh, by hand, by hand.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yes. We have to. The, the equipment that we're going to use to increase production capacity is very expensive. We're working on it. The cool thing about it though is that I can put the same ingredients into like a more automated piece of equipment and the same product comes out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Part of the issue with a lot of these high throughput machinery setups is they have parts that are made of plastic. Same thing with plastic. And it's. It's actually shocking. We bought a fryer that had. Has this hose so that you can like drain the oil tallow, filter it, and then pump it back up to the top. The hose is made of plastic. What, and this is 200°, like fat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, in this really shitty plastic. And that's like how they sell it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And there are. So there are people who bought that and then use it this way. And then the food that's a result of this is contaminated plastic.

[B]

That's crazy. I never even thought about that.

[A]

It's. It's nuts because. And they don't think about it either. The FDA says, oh, this material is food grade because some chemical company paid them to say it's food grade.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not. But then because they say it, producers can get away with it. So we had to. We had to get custom made flexible stainless steel hoses to put onto that wow. Thing.

[B]

And that's how much you care about your customers. Because they would have. Your customers would have never known.

[A]

Like, they would know. They would not know it. Wouldn't taste it, they wouldn't smell it. But like, there would be dissolved plastic in my tallow.

[B]

So that shows you guys are willing to put ethics ahead of profits, though.

[A]

Yeah, well, we. I mean, we do what we need to do to make sure it's something that I would. And I would eat, I would feed to my family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's kind of the baseline. And I've. You know, we started mosque about two and a half years ago. Um, but I've been into health on a personal level for. Well, beyond that. Yeah, very, you know, extreme practices, like, everything needs to be clean and, you know, all that stuff. And the reason why I started this was because I couldn't find anything up to that standard out of the store.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, you know, I travel, I fly here, I go there. I need to eat food. And it was just so damn difficult to find anything that I could eat at the store. And this was just like, a. Very convenient.

[B]

Even here, man. I'm not trying to call out this convention center, but I've been having to get lunch at the food court.

[A]

We had. We had a picnic out on the street. We brought, like, sourdough organic bread. We got the farmer's market today and, like, cheese and some organic turkey cold cuts.

[B]

I knew every place here was using seed oils because I'm so sensitive now that I don't eat them, that when I do, I feel it immediately.

[A]

Well, there's. So there's a few good restaurants in Phoenix and also Scottsdale. Do you have the app Seed Oil Scout?

[B]

Yeah, I love that app.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, so I. We went to one last night. It was a good restaurant.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Seattle.

[B]

Scout's a game changer. And now I saw they're adding products.

[A]

So, yeah, we've been on there. I. I know SEO very well. We've been on there from very early on. Yeah, we're super, super happy to be collaborating with them. And they're coming out with I don't know how much of a lot of teas, but they're. They're. They're coming out with a way to help you find. Make sure that the stuff you buy in the grocery store is also.

[B]

I saw they even had a raw milk thing they're adding.

[A]

I mean, it's.

[B]

Raw milk's been demonized in the mainstream media. There's people raiding farms.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this. We actually donated to the Strong Sisters. I don't know if you know them.

[B]

Was that the big one in PA that got raided?

[A]

That was Miller's Biopharm. Yeah, no, that was Amos Miller's. I don't know. Miller is a big Amish family out there that was also rated. The Strong Sisters, I think, are in Ohio. And there. There's two sisters. They're super into working out and health and whatever. They started a farm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then there's this video that came out. The, the Department of Agriculture just makes them throw out like $80,000 worth.

[B]

Oh, I saw that.

[A]

Like grass fed, pasture raised, raw butter and cheese. It's like this is the highest, healthiest, highest quality, nutrient dense food that you can find anywhere on earth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And these assholes who themselves are like obese, walking in here, making them throw all this stuff into the dumpster.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was, it was travesty. Yeah. We donated to their legal fund. We like. I, I suspect that in the, in the upcoming several years, a lot of that's going to be reformed and this type of thing won't become an issue anymore.

[B]

Absolutely. I'm pumped for RFK to take some action, man.

[A]

Yeah. No, there's. And there's so much stuff you can do. It's like there's. We don't need to have this system that makes everyone so sick. Yeah.

[B]

I think a big change would be just holding these fast food chains accountable for certain ingredients they're using.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think because so many people eat that, those spots on a daily basis, you know.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like they, you know, it's, it's the food they can get. Like, it's up to people who produce and sell food to make sure that what they're feeding people is not bad for them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, it's not everyone has the luxury of being able to go to Air Wand and buy whatever they want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and in that case, people can't be subject to the poisonous desires of some large corporation or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's insane.

[B]

Like, why do French fries have 58 ingredients?

[A]

Sorry, what?

[B]

You say French fries have 58 ingredients?

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. It's crazy.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

Like, burgers have like 25 ingredients.

[A]

That's insane. It's like meat, bread and cheese.

[B]

You read like the ingredient list of any fast food chain and it's like stuff you can't pronounce.

[A]

Nuts. Yeah. I actually think that would be a good one because so ingredient labels are pretty good in the US. Like, I, I mean, I said the thing about the soybean oil with the chicken fingers. It's not. They're not perfect, but they're pretty solid. It'll be great if restaurants also had ingredient labels too.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be great.

[A]

Yeah. Cause at least like calories measure. I, I think a few cities have tried to do this where they mandate that Chipotle puts the Calories per meal or whatever. You can only do so much with that. Um, I. I think what's the guy. Casey Neistat famously actually tested the caloric content of certain foods.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. And compared it against the number that they put on the menu. And they were all completely way off. Way off. It's. It's a famously inaccurate science, but agree labels, it's what's in the product, and it would help a lot of people make better choices.

[B]

I would love that because. Yeah, certain things at a restaurant, you see, like, what you want, but you don't know if there's cedar oils in it.

[A]

Yeah, no idea. And sometimes waiters don't know. Sometimes chefs don't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then they get annoyed if you.

[B]

Ask to cook it in butter.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like a weird process right now.

[A]

Yeah. It's kind of awkward. And then even if they. They think they're doing it right, they may buy something from outside and they didn't even know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The restaurant I went to yester day is across the board, very good. You know, no seed oils, olive oil, animal fats, avocado oil. However, I had to double check. It wasn't on the menu. Their fryer had rice bran oil, which is seed oil. And it's like, that wasn't on the menu. They talked about how they don't use seed oils, and I'm like, well, what's in the fryer? And then I found it was rice bran oil. So, like, being upfront about that, I think would help a lot of people.

[B]

Absolutely. I went to a five star steakhouse in Vegas the other night, and they use canola oil on the bread. Literally the bread. That's. That you start out with canola oil on.

[A]

On the bread. Why do you need oil on bread? Is oil part of bread?

[B]

So nuts, dude.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

I don't know if he meant they. They bake it with canola. I don't know exactly what it was.

[A]

I mean, Wonder Bread has soybean oil.

[B]

In it, so they're probably baking it.

[A]

I. So I was at a Fogo de Chow, you know, it's like this Brazilian steakhouse chain. Much against my will.

[B]

I used to go there the other day.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, it's a. It's a cool concept on paper, but the. The salad bar, I was like. Because I don't. I don't want to eat a lot of that stuff. I know it's sus. But I go and look at the white rice. I'm thinking white Rice. How can you screw that up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I noticed it was kind of shiny. I was like, huh? Shiny white rice. And I go and inquire about it. And the white rice was stirred with a canola olive oil blend.

[B]

It's rice.

[A]

Why is that necessary? Dude, it's white rice.

[B]

Come on. I'm assuming all the meats are cooked in seed oils there.

[A]

Well, actually, the meats are, I believe, at least when I saw they were on a rotisserie over, like, big riddles. So it looked like they were fine. Unless they sprayed them. God knows what they did.

[B]

That wouldn't surprise me.

[A]

Yeah. When surprised me, they spray the sticks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, the meat quality was pretty poor, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In general, it was not a great experience.

[B]

What's the future for Masa, man? Where could people buy this right now?

[A]

So 80% of our customers find us on our website, masjips.com. we have another. About 10 of that's on Amazon.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then the rest are in a whole bunch of retail stores.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So Erewhon, we did pretty well at it. We're the number one snack brand.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

In Erewhon at the moment.

[B]

Please come to Whole Foods or sprouts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, please.

[A]

Whole Foods. We're. We're trying.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have more to say about that over. Over this year, but, I mean, by the end of 2026, we should be all over Whole Foods and a bunch of other grocers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But for the time being, our website is the main way. And then if you're lucky enough to happen to live in a city, especially Southern California, we have a lot of stores, but outside of that, it's. It's hit or miss.

[B]

I love it, man. Thanks for coming on.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[B]

Thanks for watching, guys. Check out the website. See you guys next time.