B (3:53)

That's crazy.

A (3:54)

And they have this program that they run every year for 20 plus years. And so if you can work in that, in this mammalian model, which is pretty much the best we have in terms of looking at lifespan in mammals. Because while it'd be great to test in humans, that would take decades, you know, to start, you know, put it, give us, you know, the, the test agent and then follow us for decades, see if it works. And so mice, you know, don't have as long of a lifespan, of course. And so that's, that's a reasonable way to conduct lifespan research.

B (4:21)

Has there been a translation with mice ages and humans, like.

A (4:25)

Yeah. So correlation. So the correlation here would be, first of all, it's, um, the dosing started when the mice were about 12 months old, which would be middle age equivalent in humans, so maybe 40s, for example. So it's not like you would had to be on it from birth. And most people start to be, you know, be more, you know, concerned or taking care of their health in middle age. Um, I think nowadays people are taking more attention to their health that, you know, at younger ages. But, you know, middle ages is a reasonable time frame to start, you know, doing things too, to really promote your health. And it turns out that that 12% life extension could translate to something like nine years or maybe a decade in humans. So to be able to extend potentially a life, you know, your lifespan by a decade would be a really big deal. Yeah. And this is, this is median lifespan. So this would be your typical lifespan across the population. It wouldn't be maximal lifespan. So it's not necessarily taking someone that already lives to 100 and making them live to 110.

B (5:17)

Got it.

A (5:18)

It's more about the average person that lives 70, 80 years, giving them an extra decade, but hopefully not just an extra decade of being alive, but an extra decade of being alive. Nothing. Health span, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big deal.

B (5:29)

That's the key. Like, why would you want to live to 100 but you're in a wheelchair and you're not happy.

A (5:32)

Yeah, exactly.

B (5:33)

Like I want to be mobile at my older ages.

A (5:35)

Yeah. And a lot of people think about longevity as. Okay, well, that's just something that old people need to think about. Or someone that's already 70 or 80 or 90, they're going to take it and then hopefully live a little bit longer. But longevity starts now. It's something that, you know, it's like compound interest. It's something that accrues over time and, and it's something where, you know, longevity is also being able to be active and continue playing sports or doing whatever activities you want, you know, through your 20s, 30s, 40s and not slowing down, which a lot of people tend to do, and just think, oh, I'm. I'm too old to do this or that. But, you know, if you take care of your health and, and, you know, eat well and sleep and exercise and take appropriate supplements as needed, then you can really hopefully maintain that high level.

B (6:14)

Yeah. LeBron James is over 40 now, I believe.

A (6:17)

It's so inspirational. Look.

B (6:18)

Yeah.

A (6:18)

LeBron James in Tennessee had Roger Federer and Nadal and Djokovic, and you have Lewis Hamilton and F1 and, and all these amazing. Every sport has an example. Yeah. Or Tom Brady before he retired. You know, long, long careers and and so that's really. And you look at them, they all really pay attention to their health.

B (6:34)

You have to, right? Yeah. It starts. I'm 29 and I take it really serious. I think you should start as early as you can, honestly. Yeah.

A (6:41)

It's easier to protect things and maintain than to try to fix it after the fact. When it's broken, like, get blood work.

B (6:46)

Because a lot of people, I feel like, are guessing.

A (6:48)

Oh, yeah. So you get blood work so you can measure, you know, are. Are things out of whack that I need to, you know, kind of get in check? Or are there, you know, you can track things over time, make sure that you're staying in that optimal zone.

B (7:01)

What exactly is this doing? Say, like, you. You take this for a few months and then you get your blood tested again. Is this changing any of the levels?

A (7:07)

Yeah, yeah, multiple things. So measures of oxidative stress and inflammation. So something like HS crp, which is high sensitivity C reactive protein, which is a common measure of systemic inflammation commonly associated with cardiovascular health. For example, in major pharmaceutical studies, there have been, you know, results showing that if you reduce your HSCRP independent of lipids or cholesterol, but if you just reduce the inflammation, reduce the hscrp, you can reduce your risk of major adverse cardiovascular events, which are strokes and heart attacks, for example, by like 25%. Wow. A lot people just think, oh, it's just all about cholesterol, but it's not. It's also about inflammation.

B (7:46)

Right.

A (7:47)

And so you want to have your HSCRP below 2 or even below 1 when you look at those results on your biomarker tests. And so that'll be one of the major things. If there are other measures of inflammation, there are other things that you can get, but they may not be typically available at most diagnostic labs. But if you do specialty testing, you can look for more advanced inflammatory tests.

B (8:08)

That's what I do. Yeah.

A (8:09)

And then, yeah, you want to try to keep those in the appropriate ranges. If there are measures of oxidative stress, those would be helpful to measure. But also it turns out that even though I mentioned that cardiovascular health is not just about lipids and cholesterol, it's also about inflammation, it turns out. We also have data showing that astaxanthin in a study that we conducted reduces cholesterol. So LDL cholesterol was reduced. In a human study that we actually conducted in Hawaii, it was a randomized, double blind study. In real world, people that had cardiovascular disease or risk factors, we had a placebo group, we had test groups. People didn't know if they were on study drug or getting the placebo. And after three months of testing, we reduce LDL cholesterol, but we also reduce, importantly, oxidized ldl. Because it's not just about how much LDL there is. It's really about the quality of it. And if it's oxidized, then that can lead to plaque buildup and plaque rupture in the arteries. And that's really the. The especially bad form of ldl.

B (9:04)

Yeah. When I think of cholesterol, I think of the. That type.

A (9:07)

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not only a lot of people think of LDL as the bad cholesterol, but really it's. It's the oxidized ldl.

B (9:12)

Got it.

A (9:13)

That. That's especially bad, and we reduce that. Uh, so if you can get that tested, which again, is. Is more of a specialty marker, but it is available. That's. That's a good one to try to look at.

B (9:22)

Yeah. Yeah. When I got my first mri, that was a scary. That was like a wake up call. Seeing the plaque.

A (9:29)

Yeah.

B (9:29)

On your. On your organs. I think it's one thing to, like, assume you have it, but to visually see it.

A (9:34)

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I made some health changes after that. Yeah, no, that's. That's amazing that you're doing that.

B (9:39)

And I was 27, by the way, so.

A (9:40)

Yeah, no, I mean, it can start for everyone, especially with common just, you know, Western diets and lifestyles. It's something that, you know, it starts now and it, you know, it progresses over years and decades. It's not just something that happens later in life. And so it's really important.

B (9:52)

And also there's like a myth, like if you're skinny, like, you won't have visceral fat or whatever. I had a ton of visceral fat and I was skinny.

A (9:59)

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, so there are some people say, like skinny fat or things like that, but. Yeah, but just, you know, just based on diet or genetics or activity, lifestyle, all these things can impact all of that. So. Yeah, so if you've made changes for whether it's, you know, activity or supplementation or, or sleep, nutrition, all of these things can impact visceral fat and other important biomarkers.

B (10:21)

How long has. Have. Has this been on the marker for humans?

A (10:24)

So I was actually part of the team that launched one of the first supplements with astaxanthin back in the year 2000.

B (10:30)

Oh, wow.

A (10:30)

Yeah.

B (10:31)

So 28 years.

A (10:32)

Yeah, 20, 26.

B (10:33)

Six.

A (10:34)

Yeah. Um, but yeah, so for me, I'm in my 40s now, but I was in high school at the time and so it was a summer job and I was working on the big island of Hawaii where they were these ponds that grow microalgae. So if anyone flies into the Kona airport, right near the airport, you'll see these big colorful ponds with paddle wheels and it's almost like, like donuts that are compressed and kind of elongated. And you'll see these ponds that might be either green or red and it could be spirulina that's grown there or often it's the, the algae that produces astaxanthin. Wow. Red. The red one, yeah. So it's actually, it's green algae initially, but then when the sunlight hits the algae, they produce astaxanthin as a defense mechanism against the damaging effects of the, of the UV light from the sun and then they turn bright red.

B (11:20)

Interesting.

A (11:20)

So I was actually working those ponds almost like a pool boy, kind of sweeping the pies and helping to keep the algae agitated and stirred up. And that allowed it to produce more astaxanthin. And so, yeah, so it's been on the market as a supplement since then. And then we actually spent another decade or so after that looking at pharmaceutical applications on the molecule because it was really at the time, early early days, you know, there were, there weren't that many peer reviewed papers or human studies or anything. But we, we saw that there was intriguing antioxidant, anti inflammatory activity in addition to its well known role as a pigment. Because this, it turns out, is what makes salmon pink lobsters and gives the color to all these marine species.

B (11:58)

So it's in these lobsters?

A (12:00)

Yeah, so it's in lobster, crab, shrimp, salmon, krill, even flamingos are pink because they consume it in the bio. Wow. So it's this pigment, but it's. And so it actually is incorporated for instance, into salmon feed. Like people think farm raised salmon are, are dyed pink. They're actually fed astaxanthin just like they would get in the wild, but they just give it in their feed in the farm raised conditions. And so it's part of the diet naturally wild or farm raised. But it's not just giving them the color, it's giving them health and vitality. Because without it they would be smaller, they'd be weaker, they'd be gray, and probably too weak to swim upstream because they had that amazing journey where they swim upstream against the current and everything and reproduce and then when they turn bright red, that's the astaxanthin kind of going from their flesh out to their skin. And then when they reproduce, the astaxanthin is actually transferred to their eggs. And that's why salmon eggs are red. It's also because. Yeah, so it has this amazing role in nature. And we're like, wow, like let's, let's do more research on this and see how it actually works in the body. Like what is it actually doing in the cells and what kind of benefits could it have? And so we spent a decade doing research and actually optimizing manufacturing. So rather than growing via algae, we're actually able to make it in the laboratory. So it'd be like highly pure, like a pharmaceutical version of it. And so it's much more pure and really bioavailable. And then after several years we came back to the supplement space and brought the pharmaceutical rigor and learnings to making a version of supplement of sset. And that's highly pure, really well absorbed. And actually we conducted a human study where we took basically the algal form that we had initially developed back in 2000 time frame and then gave our laboratory produced pharmaceutical style version. And we got from the same dose three times more absorbed into the bloodstream. So you take, you say two 12 milligram capsules of one product and then measure your blood and you take two 12 milligram capsules of the other product of ours and we got three times more absorbed into your bloodstream when we measured versus passing through you. Because bioavailability is a big thing with supplements. Not everything is absorbed. Some molecules get hyped up, then they aren't even really absorbed.

B (14:06)

I've noticed that with vitamins they say sometimes 80% doesn't even get absorbed.

A (14:10)

Yeah, yeah. And so you're just kind of wasting your money. And so we've actually confirmed that you absorb it and that those levels are relevant in terms of efficacy and activity in the body. And has been proven, for instance in that human study, reducing the cholesterol, the oxidized LDL and inflammation and things like that. Yeah, seems like there's a lot of

B (14:28)

benefits, I wonder because a lot of people say to take omega 3 in fish oil. Is that in there too?

A (14:34)

These are related, they're both marine based molecules. So omega 3s help to replenish the lipids of your cellular membranes. And so the cells in your body are basically the building blocks of, you know, of all your tissues and organs. And the cells are, are, you know, basically what produce the energy and have all the vital functions to sustain life. And the cells, if you think of them like, you know, like, like a building, you have walls, you know, and those are like the, the membranes around the cell. You also like the exterior walls, but you also have interior rooms where you might have important, you know, a vault of information which is like your nucleus housing your DNA, or you have the area where the energy is produced, that's the mitochondria. And it has its own walls, it has its own membranes. And so the lipids, which are the, basically the materials that comprise those membranes, are replenished by omega 3s, but those lipids are prone to oxidation. And so people talk about fish oil sometimes being oxidized because of poor handling or production conditions. But also in your body, they can become oxidized just by the byproducts of energy production or exposure to environmental stressors like sunlight or pollution or poor diet or all these things. And your body has these built in systems to deal with like free radicals and reactive oxygen species, you know, oxidative stress that can lead to oxidative stress. But if those are not properly keeping those reactive oxygen species in check, the lipids in your membrane can become oxidized. And it's almost like a wildfire in a forest where if you have all these trees that are kind of like the lipids of your membranes, it's. If one catches fire, it can then ignite the next and ignite the next and your whole membrane can basically be you know, disrupted. And so with astaxanthin, it also actually gets into your membranes. It's not the lipid in your membrane, but it actually slots right in and kind of sits right next to all the lipids and perfectly spans the length of the astaxanthin molecule is pretty much the exact length of your membranes. Wow. And based on the molecular structure, it has these. It's like the long backbone with these like rings on the end. The rings on the end are polar, which allows them to anchor across the membrane and just lock into the membrane and not disrupt it. So it's just, it's kind of like a bridge across the membrane, which stabilizes all of your cellular membranes, but also protects them from oxidation because it's a really powerful antioxidant. And so if you have that cascade of events happening where one lipid gets oxidized, the next one gets oxidized, astaxanthin basically steps in and stops that in its tracks. It's kind of like stopping a wildfire before it spreads to the rest of the forest.

B (17:05)

Yeah.

A (17:06)

And so it really is important to maintaining membrane health of the cell and importantly the membranes of the mitochondria where your energy is produced. And so if your membranes are damaged, then you aren't going to produce energy as well and you're not going to be able to have your normal cellular functions like autophagy and mitophagy, like cleaning up and recycling old products or producing proteins. And basically everything that happens in your cells to sustain life, all of those things can be damaged by oxidation. The lipids, the proteins, the DNA can all be damaged. Astaxanthin protects all of those things from oxidative stress and in turn it also impacts inflammatory pathways which can be triggered by oxidative stress. And so you may have heard about oxidative stress and chronic inflammation as underlying chronic health conditions or longevity or maybe something like inflammaging, which is basically the interplay between inflammation and aging. And all these, this is, these are basically things that people try to address with common antioxidants or anti inflammatories or lifestyle interventions. And it just turns out that nature came up with astaxanthin as kind of this perfect antioxidant. It's basically the most powerful antioxidant that we don't produce internally, that we can take as an external source to help our internal built in systems.

B (18:24)

That's incredible. Nature's healing, right? Totally. Yeah. They say the body and nature is all you really need, you know.

A (18:31)

Yeah, no, a lot of people look for quick fixes and, and, and you know, really powerful things that go in and do one thing or another. Yeah, but a lot of these things, they go in and maybe bind to something in the cell and just knock out a certain, you know, type of inflammation that maybe is kind of getting out of control. But is, is there for a reason, generally to fight off infections or wound heal. But it just kind of got a little bit, you know, out of, you know, out of the ordinary. And then it was damaging tissues. And so some common anti inflammatories, for example, go in and completely inhibit something, but then ultimately you're gonna have side effects down the road. And the way astaxanthin works is basically it restores normal function like homeostasis and balance. So it kind of returns the cell to normal function. So it's not like some, you know, you know, miracle thing where you're doing something that is not as nature intended. It's just basically helping to get back on track when things Were stopping, you know, starting to not work as, as they normally should.

B (19:27)

That probably limits the side effects, right?

A (19:28)

Yeah. That's why it's so safe is because you're basically returning to normal balance rather than doing something where you swing the pendulum from one side to the other. Now you fix one thing, but now you have another issue with certain peptides like trt. Yeah. You're doing something that wasn't exactly how nature. Exactly.

B (19:42)

Not at all.

A (19:43)

Yeah.

B (19:43)

I mean, then you lose fertility.

A (19:45)

Yeah. And a lot of things are kind of always on, always off, and that's not how the body works. It's a complicated thing. There's a lot of balance and, and give and take and fe feedback loops. And so this basically is kind of like a bouncer at a club that goes in and kind of mans the door and kind of make sure that, you know, if there's an issue, it takes care of it, but otherwise it's kind of not doing anything.

B (20:03)

So.

A (20:03)

Yeah, it really helps.

B (20:04)

Do you have to take this with food?

A (20:05)

You do, yeah. This is a fat soluble.

B (20:07)

Got it, got it. I was about to pop a couple, but I'm an empty stomach right now.

A (20:11)

Yeah, yeah. And, and so, yeah, with a meal you can take it either once or twice a day. The, the dose that translates from that mouse study looking at lifespan to human dosing would be about one or two capsules of 12 milligrams a day. So that's kind of the baseline health and longevity maintenance dose. But other people do take sometimes more than that because it is a dose dependent effect where there's been impacts on a variety of measures of cardiovascular health or muscular health and endurance at higher doses. And this is something that again, talking about all ages, there was a study in young cyclists that were early 20s and cycling at 75% of their VO2 max. So pretty at a pretty high intensity, seeing how long they could go until they were basically exhausted and couldn't go anymore at, you know, sustained pace. And they had a placebo group without astaxanthin and then they had the treated group with astaxanthin and the treated group actually got like an 18% improvement in their time to exhaustion.

B (21:11)

That's a lot.

A (21:11)

Yeah, it was like it went from like an hour and 12 minutes to like an hour and 25 minutes, which is a big deal in like competitive cycling.

B (21:17)

Yeah.

A (21:18)

Which is like, you know, a few months of dosing. Um, so it can have impacts on your endurance because it's. Your energy is being produced more efficiently in mitochondria you're probably not switching over to the. The lactate and the lactic acid buildup. That can happen.

B (21:30)

Right.

A (21:30)

When you can deplete your. Your more efficient forms of producing energy. It also helps with recovery because there's a lot of oxidative stress and inflammation that can happen. And, and so it can allow you to recover better and be able to train again the next day and the next day, hopefully without injury, but also at. At a higher level.

B (21:47)

That's incredible. And professional athletes can take this. It's not banned.

A (21:51)

Yeah, it's not banned. It is. You know, if they can eat salmon, they can take this. Yeah.

B (21:55)

So. So this is in salmon, this. How do you pronounce it? Astaraxan.

A (21:59)

Yeah, it's called astaxanthin. It's astaxanthin. Yeah. It's like, it's such a long word. It's. It's very hard. But basically it's Asta xanthin. Okay.

B (22:06)

Asta xanthin.

A (22:07)

There you go.

B (22:08)

Yeah, you mentioned it's in salmon. But do you still get it when you eat it or does it lose

A (22:11)

it when you eat the salmon?

B (22:13)

You.

A (22:13)

You will get some, but you'll get a few milligrams. And so to get basically what you get in one capsule of this, you'd have to eat like a pound of one, you know, like sockeye salmon or several pounds of. Of, you know, like Atlantic.

B (22:26)

Yeah, that's too much parasites in the microplastics.

A (22:28)

It's just a lot. Yeah. And so, I mean, but if you are eating salmon regularly, you'll get some astaxanthin, which is great. You also get omega 3s. And so my brain feels noticeably better

B (22:36)

when I eat sal.

A (22:38)

Yeah. And so a big part of that are the omega 3s and the astaxanthin.

B (22:41)

Right.

A (22:41)

Cause all that's really important to brain health. We've seen human studies with astaxanthin conducted by some researchers around the world, showing that it impacts, like, memory, cognition, information processing, attention, and in animals, things like neuroplasticity, neurogenesis, like producing brain cells. So it does impact brain health and cognition in both humans and animals.

B (23:05)

Nice. Wow. Yeah.

A (23:06)

So it's not just about, oh, helping me live longer, which is amazing and healthier, but it's also like, cognitive performance. Yeah, like performance. That's what I want. Right. Yeah.

B (23:14)

In my 20s, like you mentioned.

A (23:16)

Yeah, you want performance. You want performance. And. But even someone, you know that maybe it's an older age and running a marathon, whatever it may Be, you know, or just a local 5k or playing with the grandkids or children, whatever it may be. This can happen.

B (23:28)

Man, I wish I had this when I was running 5K. Yeah, that would have cut some time off, I bet.

A (23:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or even like for instance, like with all the, the, the screen time. There was a study in school age children that were probably 12 years old where they had a low dose of astaxanthin, about 4 milligrams, which is kind of like a third of one of these capsules. But it reduced eye strain. All these measures of really looking at their eye health. Wow.

B (23:49)

So I'm on my computer like eight hours a day.

A (23:51)

Yeah. So it can help with, with that, the damaging effects of, of the light, you know, on, on your eyes.

B (23:57)

A lot of benefits. Holy crap.

A (23:59)

And so it actually crosses the blood brain barrier. The blood retinal barrier also hits quick. Yeah, I mean, so I mean it gets in. I mean it does take time to build up in your tissues and to impact these, you know, you know, oxidative stress. Yeah. But some people do experience benefits within days and weeks. It just depends on their particular health state. But this is not to be something that you just take like a stimulant, like I take it and then I feel a boost and then I'm good to go. It's more of a long term healthy restoration of, you know, cellular function, mitochondrial energy production. This is a month supply in here. Yeah. So that was a month supply if you take two a day.

B (24:34)

Okay.

A (24:35)

And it'll be a two month supply if you took one a day. But again, some people take higher doses and so they might take a couple packs a month. It just depends. But given that it's really safe, it allows you to start at a given dose, like one or two capsules a day, and then give yourself a month or two or three major. Maybe get your biomarkers tested.

B (24:51)

Yeah.

A (24:51)

And then if there is something like HSCRP that maybe has come down a little bit, but you want to see if it comes down more, you could try increasing your dose a little bit, of course, working with your healthcare professional for their guidance. But this is something that really complements other supplements and medications. Well, it doesn't seem to have any proven interactions or issues.

B (25:11)

That's good.

A (25:11)

I get question for a lot of people, if they ask, can I take this? It's like, well, can you eat salmon? And most people can. Some people have shellfish allergies. But even though this is in shellfish, this does not contain the things that make shellfish allergic, you know, for some people. Right.

B (25:26)

So they can still eat this if they have the shellfish allergy.

A (25:29)

Yeah. So this doesn't have any of the major allergens. So virtually everyone could take this, you know, but there are, you know, there are ingredients in the formulation that make it bioavailable. Because if you. If we just produce the astaxanthin in the lab but didn't formulate it, you wouldn't be absorbed. Well, so we have a special formulation and some of those other ingredients in there are things that, you know, maybe one person out of a thousand or something maybe has like an upset stomach or something. And so we haven't proven or seen that in a clinical study, but, you know, you get some anecdotal feedback every now and then someone's like, oh, I think my stomach may have been upset. And then you say, well, did you take it with a meal? You know, a lot of factors. Yeah. Did you go off it and go back on? Did it kind of stop and start and. But for the most part, it's exceptionally safe. There have been studies in, you know, hundred human studies with no issues of clinical significance. There have been, you know, hundreds or probably more than a thousand animal studies and specifically some safety testing, like toxicity studies, where they look at really high doses, really long durations, and they look at the organs. They look at does it cause cancer or DNA damage or reproductive issues or development issues. And nothing was found in those studies that is of relevance to humans.

B (26:40)

That's impressive because I'm actually surprised I haven't heard of this because I have on a lot of health experts on the show. I wonder if it's because it's a newer thing.

A (26:48)

It's been in the research field, but it hasn't had a big backing. And so, for instance, like you mentioned, like, with Sinclair, and he helped to bring awareness through resveratrol back in the day. And so even though that was something that proved to not have as much scientific utility as it initially seemed, it still uncovered some mechanisms, mechanisms related to health and longevity. But it kind of blew up that as, you know, as something that people, like, know about, like resveratrol and comes in red wine, you know, it gives you health benefits. But it, for instance, in that NIH study, it actually didn't work.

B (27:22)

Oh, I didn't know that. It was also no life increase.

A (27:25)

No. And so not to say it might have. It may have some other effects that could be helpful, but, yeah, it's something that didn't work in the program, but there hasn't really been any major, you know, celebrity backing or endorsement or major, you know, brand or major advertising with this until you guys. And so, yeah, so that's what we're trying to do is create awareness just given that the science over the last couple decades has, has really exploded with more than 4,000 peer reviewed papers and like I said, like 100 or more human clinical studies. And the science is just so exciting. Like even now with AI, people want to go online and go to your preferred AI and kind of ask about Astaxanthin and ask about, does it help with brain health or heart health and how does it do that? The science is really amazing and the more you dig, the more exciting it is. And a lot of the top scientists and clinicians in the world, when we do interact, they get really excited about this. And for instance, we've had one of the guys who was at the Cleveland Clinic and at the Harvard Affiliated Hospital and also now at Mount Sinai in New York, like head of cardiology, that has been a big proponent of astaxanthin for health as well, part of our scientific advisory board for many, many years. And so some of the real legitimate scientists in the world that we've interacted with really sing the praises of astaxanthin. It just hasn't really made it in the consumer world into becoming mainstream, but that's what we found. Podcasts have been really helpful to just have conversations because again, if you saw this on the shelf, you see Astaxanthin, you'd be like, what is this? You wouldn't just walk right past it, right? And so unless you're at a store where someone comes up to you and says, oh, hey, why are you here? And oh, did you know this maybe? Oh, you're like, oh, I'm buying fish oil. Yeah. And they're like, okay, well did you know that this could also work hand in hand and protect the lipids in the fish oil from becoming oxidized? And but other than that, if you just see like a 30 second ad on TV or streaming or whatever, like, you're probably not going to really pay attention. And so, yeah, it's just, it takes education to understand it. And also when people hear that it's an antioxidant, they think, oh, okay, well, you know, I know about vitamin C or vitamin E, they're all the same, you know, but the thing is, antioxidants are not all the same. There, there's differences in how effective they are at Fighting the free radicals. And astaxanthin has been proven to be one of the most powerful antioxidants in terms of like scavenging, quenching these free radicals, but also where they go in the body, where they go in the cells like beta carotene and vitamin E get into your cellular membranes, but they don't span across it and stabilize the membrane. They can actually disrupt the membrane, the lipids in it, where vitamin C basically stays outside the membrane in the aqueous environment. So astaxanthin is very unique where it perfectly spans the membrane, doesn't disrupt it, and can fight free radicals inside the membrane and also outside the membrane that approach from the outside to the membrane. So it's very different. And the fact that it gets to the outer membrane of the cell, but also the inner membranes around the nucleus and the mitochondria, which are very privileged sites and hard to get to, crosses the blood brain barrier, gets into your brain cells which are really important for long term brain health and cognitive function. So the fact that it gets throughout your whole body, gets into all of your key membranes throughout the cell and is one of the most powerful antioxidants in nature and helps to restore that balance, but doesn't become pro oxidant like some antioxidants at high doses. It's kind of like the perfect antioxidant. And it also helps to boost your endogenous, your built in antioxidants. So people have heard about like glutathione as like your body's master antioxidant. This actually helps to stimulate the NRF2 pathway, which actually is your master antioxidant pathway where it goes into your nucleus and says produce more antioxidants. And it basically gives the signal to your body to produce more glutathione and other built in antioxidants. So this is kind of like a, a dual threat where it helps produce more of your built in antioxidants. But also it directly works as an antioxidant in a way that's very different from most antioxidants or all antioxidants. So that's why it's so interesting. But it sometimes gets written off as, oh, it's just another antioxidant. But then when you dig it's like, okay, it's actually very different. And again like if people wanted to go on to online and in search or go to, you know, various AI or ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever it may be, or PubMed, the National Archive of Literature. If you search for astaxanthin and learn about it as an antioxidant or how it compares to other anti inflammatories, you'll see that it's really different. I'll add that as an anti inflammatory, a lot of things like Ibuprofen or Advil, they work downstream, like after the inflammatory insult or pathway has been activated and it's basically producing these inflammatory products, they're going in downstream and trying to catch something and turn off this or turn off that, but they're not going to the source where the inflammation is initiated from. This works upstream and it's preventing the activation of the inflammatory pathway in the first place when you don't want it in that kind of bad pathological condition. But it doesn't prevent the normal inflammatory response, which is your immune response to fight infections and wound heal because certain anti inflammatories, when they chronically inhibit things, maybe you get rid of the inflammation that's causing a joint issue. But now you're at risk of getting a major severe infection and, or you won't wound heal or you have bleeding issues.

B (32:32)

That's why I hate taking Advil and Tylenol.

A (32:34)

Yeah. And they're not good for long term use, you know, for a day or two. Okay, but they're not meant for long term use.

B (32:39)

No. Destroy your gut too.

A (32:41)

Yeah, exactly. And so this is something that works upstream and basically says, okay, your inflammatory, you know, response or your immune response can function when it needs to, to fight off invaders and things like that, like infections, bacteria, pathogens. But it's not gonna just be chronically turned on and causing damage, which is what happens with chronic inflammation. These kind of age related diseases.

B (33:01)

Right.

A (33:02)

And a health decline.

B (33:03)

For example, we got to get these to Brian Johnson.

A (33:06)

Yeah, so I've actually spoken with Brian. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and so he was following that NIH study. We sent him samples and, and he actually does take astaxanthin.

B (33:13)

Oh, he does, yeah. Oh wow.

A (33:14)

It's part of his stack.

B (33:15)

I didn't know that.

A (33:16)

Yeah, yeah. He has your brand or a different brand. He's had the version, one of the versions from Hawaii as well, from the Big Island. I believe he may have swapped it. But he has the algo form in his. But, but yeah, we've spoken with him and his scientific team and went through the science and, and sent him product and we have talked about working together as well. I think when he was launching his, his blueprint platform, it was just easier to source from his existing source that he personally taking. But, yeah, no, he was on top of the science and we connected a few years ago and. Yeah, had calls and video calls and. Yeah, I think he's. He's really doing cool things in the space and is kind of the tip of the spear in terms of testing himself and bringing awareness to it. And while it is considered extreme in a lot of areas and it is an end of one, it's not a. As good as a full population study. It is really cool what he's doing. And given that he has the resources to test everything and see what works and he's, I mean, really smart and really interesting and so. But yeah, no, he. This is something he was aware of and has been taking as well.

B (34:15)

Is Dave Asprey taking this?

A (34:17)

Yes, he knows about astaxanthin. We haven't connected directly. I've. I've. His team reached out to me to. To connect as well. And so, yeah, so a lot of the people in the space, you know, have heard about it and maybe taking it. They just haven't necessarily promoted it as a thing.

B (34:33)

Yeah, because there's so many. That's another thing.

A (34:36)

Right.

B (34:36)

There's a lot of noise. There's a lot of supplements. Some people are taking like 50 or 100 a day.

A (34:41)

Yeah, yeah. And so this is one of the foundational ones that could benefit virtually everyone. There are some specialized things where maybe this particular peptide is good for this person or that person, or they're certain types of therapies, but this is kind of like a foundational, like an omega 3 or a multivitamin, where it could benefit virtually everyone. And given that it has systemic distribution, you know, it can impact, you know, your heart and your liver and your gut and your joints and your muscles, your brain, your eyes, your skin. Yeah. So just like the algae protect themselves against the sunlight, we can protect ourselves against the effects of sunlight with astaxanthin. So the, the, you know, the sun can damage the DNA in our skin cells. And. And we've actually shown that asaxanthin helps to promote skin health. Wow. Reduces wrinkles and fine lines, increases moisture content, elasticity. And so there are even some cosmetic products that use a little bit of astaxanthin topically. But you have to be careful because it is this bright red pigment. If you get too much in, you're putting on, like, war paint, you know, SpongeBob. And so that's why taking it orally, you kind of have it as an internal protection.

B (35:39)

Yeah, it's like eating too many carrots and you turn around.

A (35:41)

Yeah, yeah.

B (35:42)

That's cool, man. Anything else? I know we went through a lot. Any other studies or things you want to share?

A (35:50)

No, I think it's. This is something where people can just kind of look into it more and you know, we're just happy if people hear about astaxanthin for the first time and, and try it. Yeah. And there are, you know, several reputable sources out there. The difference with ours is that we have the laboratory produced version that's really, really pure.

B (36:08)

Right.

A (36:09)

Versus the others are extracts from the algae that may be 5, 10, 15% astaxanthin and the rest is other material from the algae. Not much. Yeah, it's hard to get the astaxanthin out of the algae and so it's fine. It's just other algal related materials and proteins and lipids from the algae. But there's only like I said, 10% of the active in there and then it's suspended, typically in a soft gel oil capsule. And some people have issues with oil filled capsules, GI issues or if they can't swallow the capsule, they're kind of just out of luck. But in our case, you can actually twist open the capsule and dispense the powder into a bottle of water and shake it up.

B (36:47)

I was wondering why they were shaped like that. Yeah.

A (36:49)

And, and so if you twist open the capsule and put it in and shake it up, it'll turn bright red. It'd be like Kool Aid.

B (36:54)

That's cool.

A (36:55)

But it won't taste or smell like anything. So for people that have issues swallowing capsules, they, they can use the powder in our case or you can even give it to your pet. We've made. I was just going to ask with ours, or, or give the capsule.

B (37:06)

So dogs, cats, you think dogs could benefit from this?

A (37:08)

Oh, for sure, yeah. Yeah. And so there have been studies, you know, in, in dogs and, and cats showing that it promotes health. And so, yeah, joint health, you know, this presumably promote lifespan as well. Although there haven't been dog studies or cat studies. But mechanistically, the rationale is there just because it works in all these other organisms and the, the, you know, the things that impact aging are kind of ancient or, you know, mechanisms in our cells that have, you know, evolved over time. And so the same reasons why, you know, mice and other animals age are the same things that cause human age at the cellular level.

B (37:41)

Yeah, that's cool. A lot of people care about their dog's health. So, yeah, that's a selling point. I think you guys should lean into more.

A (37:47)

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, so right now they can take a capsule and put it in a pill pocket or peanut butter or whatever and give it to your dog. Or you can open up the capsule and, you know, dispense the powder into their wet food or things like that.

B (37:57)

I'm going to try with my dog,

A (37:58)

too, but we are looking to like, actual, like, pet shoes that you can just grab one and give it to the dog or the cat. Cool.

B (38:04)

Well, Dave, thanks for your time. And we'll do a link in the video.

A (38:06)

Yeah.

B (38:07)

X3 Life. Right?

A (38:08)

That's it.com, not.com.life insider.com.

B (38:12)

oh, X3.life. Okay, cool. We'll link it below. Guys, check them out. Do some research on, like you said about the. The product. Thanks for coming on.

A (38:19)

Oh, thank you.

B (38:20)

Check them out, guys.

A (38:21)

Peace.

B (38:22)

Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. Means a lot to me. If you could please leave a review on Apple that helps us climb the charts. It helps us get way more guests, and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.