The Energy Hack That's Transforming Entrepreneurs | Joe Polish DSH #1056

Summary

Digital Social Hour - Episode: The Energy Hack That's Transforming Entrepreneurs | Joe Polish DSH #1056 Release Date: January 4, 2025

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a deep and insightful conversation with entrepreneur and podcasting veteran Joe Polish. The discussion delves into the intricate dynamics of personal energy management, addiction recovery, character development, and the impact of one's environment on entrepreneurial success. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their dialogue.

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1. Managing Personal Energy and Interactions

Timestamp: [00:31] - [10:30]

Joe Polish opens the conversation by addressing the significance of how interactions influence personal energy levels. He emphasizes the importance of being mindful about whether conversations leave one feeling drained or motivated.

• Joe Polish: "How do I feel after talking to that person? Do I feel drained or do I feel like motivated?" [00:31]

• Guest: Discusses the concept of training one's "energy field" by paying attention to gut feelings during interactions. Ignoring warning signs can lead to negative outcomes.

  • "When you feel something is off and you ignore that, then what happens is you're training your energy field that it's okay to ignore warning signs." [00:35]

The conversation further explores how recognizing "yellow flags" can prevent the escalation to "red flags," ensuring healthier personal and professional relationships.

---

2. Insights from Addiction Recovery and Daily Rituals

Timestamp: [01:48] - [04:23]

Joe reflects on his interview with Bobby Kennedy, highlighting the longevity and consistency of Kennedy's recovery practices.

• Guest: "This year has been his 40th year in recovery..." [02:12]

He underscores the importance of daily rituals such as meditation, attending 12-step meetings, and consistent physical exercise. These practices not only support addiction recovery but also contribute to personal growth and resilience.

• Guest: "He meditates every day, attends a 12-step meeting every day and works out every day..." [02:27]

Joe adds that developing such routines can significantly shape one’s character, distinguishing it from mere capabilities.

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3. Character vs. Capabilities in Entrepreneurship

Timestamp: [04:23] - [08:43]

The dialogue transitions into the relationship between character and capabilities. The guest posits that while capabilities can enable business growth, character is what sustains personal integrity and relationships.

• Guest: "Capabilities are great, but character will get you through because your capabilities will come and they will go." [14:43]

Joe concurs, sharing personal experiences where maintaining strong character was pivotal despite varying levels of success and external validation.

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4. Surrounding Yourself with Positive Influences

Timestamp: [08:43] - [12:10]

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the importance of the company one keeps. The guest advises distancing oneself from individuals who exhibit dishonest, negative, or unethical behaviors.

• Guest: "Cut all ties with dishonest, negative, unethical, lazy people." [07:25]

Joe agrees, emphasizing the necessity of having a support system composed of those who have remained steadfast during challenging times.

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5. Navigating Fame and External Validation

Timestamp: [12:10] - [16:03]

The conversation delves into the challenges of managing fame and the pitfalls of seeking external validation. The guest warns against the temptation to align with external approval rather than fostering internal self-worth.

• Guest: "If you don't validate yourself internally and your only validation comes externally, that's not good." [15:25]

Joe relates this to his podcasting journey, illustrating how maintaining authenticity helps in filtering genuine collaborations from opportunistic attempts to exploit his platform.

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6. Constructive vs. Toxic Criticism

Timestamp: [16:03] - [20:48]

Sean and Joe discuss the value of constructive criticism versus toxic feedback. The guest highlights the importance of surrounding oneself with individuals who not only point out flaws but also offer solutions.

• Guest: "People that really know you, that say, hey, check yourself before you wreck yourself." [18:44]

Joe adds that critical thinkers who care enough to provide genuine feedback are invaluable for personal and professional growth.

---

7. Managing Information Intake and Social Media Consumption

Timestamp: [20:48] - [26:32]

The discussion shifts to the impact of information overload and the detrimental effects of excessive news consumption. The guest advocates for limiting exposure to avoid psychological burnout.

• Guest: "It's probably a good policy for peace of mind to not watch any news." [25:57]

Joe echoes this sentiment, sharing his own experiences of how overexposure to negative information led to burnout during his early entrepreneurial years.

---

8. Altruism vs. Virtue Signaling

Timestamp: [26:32] - [29:46]

A pivotal point in the conversation distinguishes genuine altruism from virtue signaling. The guest stresses the importance of giving without the need for recognition, contrasting it with those who seek public acknowledgment for their charitable acts.

• Guest: "If you're only doing it for public recognition, then it's not sincere." [29:18]

Joe agrees, sharing personal fulfillment derived from private acts of kindness, such as giving a sandwich to someone in need, highlighting the intrinsic rewards of selfless behavior.

---

9. Future Projects and Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: [29:46] - [33:42]

In the concluding segment, the guest outlines his ambitious projects aimed at supporting addiction recovery, including the development of "Genius Recovery Kits" and an educational platform at GeniusRecovery.org. He also shares personal aspirations like transforming his 40-acre ghost town, Cleater, Arizona, into a creative artist platform.

• Guest: "We're going to hopefully save 20,000 lives a year with putting physical genius recovery kits into homes and recovery centers..." [31:45]

Joe Polish wraps up by reinforcing the importance of self-improvement and maintaining a high level of consciousness, encouraging listeners to prioritize personal growth over seeking external validation.

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Notable Quotes

• Joe Polish: "How do I feel after talking to that person? Do I feel drained or do I feel like motivated?" [00:31]

• Guest: "If you interact with anyone, it's like, do I feel good or do I feel like kind of cringy?" [00:35]

• Guest: "Capabilities are great, but character will get you through because your capabilities will come and they will go." [14:43]

• Guest: "Cut all ties with dishonest, negative, unethical, lazy people." [07:25]

• Guest: "If you don't validate yourself internally and your only validation comes externally, that's not good." [15:25]

• Guest: "If you're only doing it for public recognition, then it's not sincere." [29:18]

---

Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a profound exploration of the intangible factors that underpin entrepreneurial success. Joe Polish and his guest provide actionable insights into managing personal energy, building character, fostering meaningful relationships, and maintaining a healthy balance between personal and professional life. For entrepreneurs seeking to enhance their resilience and navigate the complexities of success, this conversation serves as an invaluable resource.

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Listen to the full episode here.

Transcript

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[Joe Polish]

How do I feel after talking to that person? Like, do I feel drained or do I feel like, motivated?

[Unknown Guest]

Okay. If I interact with anyone, it's like, do I feel good or do I feel like kind of cringy? When you feel something is off and you ignore that, then what happens is you're training your energy field that it's okay to ignore warning signs. I didn't even notice the yellow flags. And the yellow flags are lead ups to the red flags. But when you say stop and your body's telling you to stop and you still push forward, you're gonna screw yourself over.

[Joe Polish]

All right, guys, Joe Polish, here we are at AM Fest. And this guy's one of the most connected people I've ever met. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, thank you. Good to be here, man.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah, that was a fun one with Chris Voss last month too.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah, we did that first podcast and this place is kind of insane right now.

[Joe Polish]

Dude, it's booming. There's a lot of good people. This is my first amfest. What about you?

[Unknown Guest]

This is the first one.

[Joe Polish]

Really?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. I mean, Charlie Kirk is a machine. I'll just put it that way.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And they did the first MAHA event here in Arizona with, you know, Turning Point, that had Bob, my buddy, Bobby Kennedy, Cali, Maine. So I introduced both of them to each other. And so just seeing what has happened just in the span of three months is utterly insane in this country.

[Joe Polish]

Vanity. Yeah. Your interview with Bobby was incredible. It got almost a million views.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah. What were your big takeaways from that interview?

[Unknown Guest]

Uh, well, it's third time I interviewed him. Bobby. I guess my big takeaway with him is the ability to be a lifelong Democrat, then go independent and then, you know, align with try, you know, which I think is cool. And his view on addiction recovery, his view on plant medicines.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Uh, the fact that if you. If you notice Bobby, even if someone does not agree with him or not. He's. It takes a lot for him to insult someone. He doesn't just attack. He's more, I guess, more of a non violent communication guy.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Whereas Trump is just like hardcore. Right. But both styles, I think are very interesting ways to open people up because some people resonate with one method of communication, the others, others don't. But he's a machine. My big, biggest takeaway of our most recent interview is Ari knew this, but he stated it, which, and I reinforced it as much as I could, is this year has been his 40th year in recovery because I have an addiction recovery foundation and me and him really align on that. And so every single day, in spite of running for president and then everything that's going on, he meditates every day, attends a 12 step meeting every day and works out every day, even if he's traveling, which he is a lot right now, clearly with security and everything. So just to coordinate security, to work out every day wherever he's at. And people that are like, I don't have time to exercise. It's like, well, you know, it depends.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Are you committed to something? People will say, I care about my body, I care about my health, I care about my relationships, I care about my recovery. And he just does it every day. And so he truly is one of the few people that I've met. I met a lot of presidents and ex presidents. Most are narcissists.

[Joe Polish]

And we talked about that last.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And. And he is truly just, I think, a genuinely great guy. Now he will admit there are times in his life where he wasn't a great guy. And I say great guy where he was off the rails, he was in active addiction. And you cannot be an active addict without lying, cheating and stealing. If you're not doing that to other people, you're doing it to yourself. Like in your mind, you're living kind of like this double life. So there is no way in hell to do 40 years of recovery, a lot of it, 12 step base, and not have that chisel you into a better human. Yeah, everybody's flawed.

[Joe Polish]

We're.

[Unknown Guest]

We're all, you know, flawed humans in some way, shape or form. But yeah, my big takeaway was just that daily ritual which is so much to take from that.

[Joe Polish]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think we all go through these phases. Right. I never meet someone that's just like a steady trajectory.

[Unknown Guest]

Never, like ever. Unless you are living in a fricking bubble or something. I think life is a series of, you're on track, things are working. Good relationships, maybe you're taking care of your health. Things are, you know, doing well in business. And then other times you're completely off the, off the, the track. And then the job is to get back on the track.

[Joe Polish]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

Because people like I used to be there. I used to. Things used to work this way. So the question is, well, what the hell were you doing when things were working? Can you go back to that? But we get hit with disease, betrayals, heartbreak and even your story, right? Yeah. The, the big loss of, of money.

[Joe Polish]

Financial. I had health issues as well. I was neglecting. Do you think you could crush it in all aspects of life at the same time or do you to hone in on a few at a time?

[Unknown Guest]

Well, it depends on what you mean by crush it. But in terms of, you know, it's funny, I have this AI clone.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And, and somehow it's programmed to have me be saying crush it just is. Is funny because I yesterday we were playing around with my, my AI clone and it was saying, you at T.

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[Unknown Guest]

CT mobile.com go out there and crush it. I'm like, I don't really say that too much. How the hell did they get that? But maybe one of my interviews with Vaynerchuk or something because back in the day, yeah, I say that shit all the time. But no, I don't think it's possible because there are all the time. I mean I think you, you can. Let's take Eckhart Tolle, you know, real peaceful, spiritual guy or Michael Singer. They have a different tempo, a different way of being than someone that's out there hustling. I think the, you know, taking my buddy Doug Brackman's book driven where 5%, maybe 10% of the population depending on where you're at. Is a hunter and the rest of people are farmers. Hunters are the ones that are crushing it. Hunters are the ones that are pursuing with intensity. So I mean, in my own experience, maybe someone is so together, has not had adverse childhood, you know, experiences, the ACE test, they haven't had a lot of trauma in their life and they, they're pretty balanced. But I think there's mission based entrepreneurs, mission based people, and then there are obsessive people.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And so the obsessive people tend to have more depression, a lot more suicides, more addiction, more of a roller coaster life. Whereas the mission based are more methodical. They try to build boring businesses, they try to create a structure, whereas the other people, you know, systems tend to cramp their style.

[Joe Polish]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

And so they're all over the map. So for me, you know, I definitely am a hunter and so I, it's a bit of a roller coaster. But what I think is, I think it's smart to aspire to that. I think it's very smart to set a foundation up because your life is, if it's on a shaky foundation, cut all ties with dishonest, negative, unethical, lazy people. Because if you're around those people by proximity, by the very nature of that, your life is going to be a bit of a shit show. Absolutely. You can't play with snakes and not get bit.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah. Well now you're seeing new studies of how everyone has an energy field and there's actual studies now about who's around you, how it affects you.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, let me ask you this. So you've obviously interviewed people about this, you've learned about it. What has been your biggest discovery in that, because I do think we're frequencies, I think there is an energy without sounding woo woo in a ridiculous way. You know, we fashion our own futures. Our mind has a lot to do with stuff and we attract, you know, you find people whose dents match your dents.

[Joe Polish]

So yeah, for me it's just like how do I feel after talking to that person? Like do I feel drained or do I feel like motivated?

[Unknown Guest]

Right.

[Joe Polish]

So that's a simple test anyone watching this can take and you'll be surprised. Like what happens just thinking that way.

[Unknown Guest]

Well now, okay, now someone might just hear that and say, okay, yeah, whatever. And it's, that's not some big profound sort of sounding thing. However, it's, it's very profound because if you ignore your gut feelings, if you ignore how like I always I this conversation with the author Poe Bronson years ago and he said people Want more woo and less.

[Joe Polish]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

You know, and I've always liked that because it's like, okay, if I interact with anyone, it's like, do I feel good or do I feel like kind of cringy? And when you feel something is off and you ignore that, then what happens is you're training your energy field. If we want, let's just use that terminology, that it's okay to ignore warning signs. And so where I've made the biggest mistakes in my life is when I was tired, when I was exhausted, when I was overwhelmed, or when I ignored red flags. And by ignoring red flags, you don't even start. It's, it's like, you ever seen people that have these motivational posters in their offices where everyone goes numb to it and they have dust on the top of that area like that. Right. So. So people get numb to things that they don't pay attention to and you don't see it. So there's yellow flags in, in the beginning, after a lot of betrayal, after doing my best to be a giver. But when you're a giver, you get, you're a magnet for takers. I didn't even notice the yellow flags. And the yellow flags are lead ups to the red flags. So oftentimes you can be like caution, but when you say stop and your body's telling you to stop and you still push forward, you're. You're going to screw yourself over. And that is different than like a hard workout. Like for instance, nothing feels good in the middle when you're going through a breakup. Doesn't feel good when you're going through building a business in the very beginning. Or let's say you're someone that's starting a podcast, you're in the middle of this right now. What are you, like 1500 episodes?

[Joe Polish]

Yeah, 1500.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And you want to get to what, at least 3,000?

[Joe Polish]

Because Rogan's at 2500.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. So you are in the middle of working your ass off. Right. People don't see all the coordination that it takes to do something like this scheduling. And there's going to be all kinds of mistakes. There's going to be. And not even mistakes you make, just that happens along the way, but you're in the middle of it. So to condense that if you're in the middle of a one hour workout and you have to put forth effort, that kind of sucks. But when you're done with it, ah, now you're hopefully if you haven't, you know, injured yourself, you have gotten better. The more that we build up our tolerance to things that are expanding us. Great. Whenever we push through pain that's contracting us, we are closing off that energy field. So it's really expanding. Does this person expand me or do they contract me? When you start feeling contractions, that's nature's way of saying, pay attention. Because pain is a messenger and if you ignore pain, you'll start to drink the pain away. Screw the pain away. Social media, the pain away. Gamble the pain away and you'll get yourself in trouble.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah, you got to make some tough decisions because a lot of the times these people are your friends. Right. And then sometimes something will happen, they'll change a little bit, whether it's money or fame or whatever it is.

[Unknown Guest]

Absolutely. Like I was talking to Alex Epstein yesterday. He's the guy that wrote Fossil Futures, one of the smartest energy guy that I know. And he's, you know, he's friends with Peter Thiel and Palmer Lucky and Jordan Peterson and a variety of people. His second interview with Jordan's getting ready to come out and I had scheduled. He used to be in Genius Network and he'll be in and out at times, depending on where his life is at. And I introduced him to a guy named Tommy Mello who I actually want.

[Joe Polish]

To introduce you down to being on the show.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. So, you know, Tommy's now got this billion dollar company and at the very end of it, because I always talk to my friends, it's one of the endearing things I do is I, I kind of insult him in nice ways. And Alex said, he goes, you know, the, the thing about Joe, he goes, he was supporting me before anyone even knew who I was. And when people are attacking me and he's like the same guy, even if I give him money or not.

[Joe Polish]

Wow.

[Unknown Guest]

And, you know, and I just thought that was actually kind of not. Not to blow my own horn because that sounds kind of like what I'm doing. I think everyone should do that. It does. It's not a special quality to, you know, their situational ethics and then their situational behavior. Situational behavior is, you know, I may cuss, you know, in front of you or say some, you know, completely inappropriate jokes, which I tend to like. But I'm not going to, if you introduce me to your grandma, I'm not going to cuss in front of her. Right. Unless she starts cussing in front of me and says, oh, that's situational behavior. You Know, most people have drank beer, most people have gone to church. It's rare to drink beer in church. Right. You're not going to smoke a joint in the middle of a, you know, church. Some people might, but. Yeah, but anyway, but situational ethics though, is when, you know, you act like you're this ethical person in one environment, but your behavior dictates that in a different way. Kind of like Elon Musk says, you know, people that talk about doing good while doing evil, fuck them, you know, that sort of thing. So yeah, I mean, I, that applies, I think, to, I just think people need to be congruent and capabilities are great, but character will get you through because your capabilities will come and they will go. You'll be very capable in one area. And then as soon as you want to go, like if you build a million dollar business, but then you want to go to a $10 million business or a $20 million business or a $50 million business. And I'd seen this throughout my whole career. I mean, I hang around very successful entrepreneurs and that doesn't mean they're great people. Right. They could have their life completely out of control. It takes new capabilities every time you make a jump. If you want to be in better physical shape, if you want to be a better investor, if you want to be a better parent. Most people that have kids, they have no capabilities. They may have read books, they may hear about it, but you develop those capabilities. So as one develops capabilities, I think it's crucial to make sure you don't lose your characters. So we've, you, you're around people all the time that are pursuing fame and notoriety and status and all that. And when you see them change, you're like, you know, you were cool before you got a little bit of fame. But if people get a little bit of fame or money and they start all of a sudden changing, you kind of see where their priorities are.

[Joe Polish]

And it happens more often than not.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, unbelievable. Yeah, it's, that is so true. I cannot even reinforce that enough. So who becomes a close inner circle friend of mine? As I see, I watch people that are more powerful. How do they treat people that are less powerful than them? I think we might have talked to that before. Yes. Yeah, it's like, but to me, that's really important. I, I, Money's cool. Running a business is cool. Having fame and notoriety, having people like you, it's awesome. They're, you know, the ego part of us, the part of us that has low self esteem or low self worth. That lights the reassurance of. Of. Of people liking us. That. That feels good. However, that, you know, is like cotton candy, though. It.

[Joe Polish]

It's.

[Unknown Guest]

If you don't validate yourself internally and your only validation comes externally, that's not good. And if you put yourself in a position where you start getting fame, you start getting success, but you don't develop and nurture yourself. To go back to Bobby Kennedy, he goes to 12 step meetings, which are anonymous meetings. Now, of course, people are going to know Bobby, so he has to have a group where he can, you know, obviously still be in that place and be safe. That's an internal way of resourcing yourself, of building true esteem, and that forces you to look at your character. So I guess my question is how. I want to ask you this.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

So as you are, you know, by every means, someone could look at your following and be like, oh, my God, I got to get access to Sean, because maybe he didn't expose me to people. How do you protect yourself from who's just trying to use you versus who's collaborative?

[Joe Polish]

Who wants to utilize question? Man, I get pulled in so many directions these days.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Joe Polish]

I used to wake up to, like, no messages, no emails, and now it's like hundreds, maybe thousands a day.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And you can't keep up with it all. It's impossible. Yeah, you can't.

[Joe Polish]

You need good filters, man. About guys around me that just care about me. They were here while I was broke. Like, my fiance is one of them. It could just read people really well, man. Plus, as a podcaster, I've been able to read people better now. It's been a great way of keeping my ego in check as well. So podcasting's almost like a form of therapy, you know?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Joe Polish]

So that's been great.

[Unknown Guest]

No, no, it is. Well, let me say that, too, because, you know, I've been. I started my first podcast in 2005, so we're going on 20 years ago, when no one even knew what the hell a podcast was.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Then I started my first official podcast, the Marketing, When I Do with Dean Jackson in 2010. No one was doing podcasts back then. I mean, we didn't even promote it, and we get 300,000 downloads per day.

[Joe Polish]

I wish.

[Unknown Guest]

And it was like there was. It was an uncrowded market. And one of the things that happened along the way, I started seeing all of these people come out of the woodworks trying to get access, and I. I know more famous people from addiction recovery rooms and groups than I do from, you know, the people.

[Joe Polish]

Really?

[Unknown Guest]

Oh yeah, yeah. Like people see me with all, all these different people, you know, because I've interviewed. I mean, at this point, in terms of official podcasts, I've probably done, I don't know, probably close to you. Yeah. But in terms of interviews, I've probably interviewed four or five thousand people. If you, I mean I should just put every, like I've got over a thousand ten minute talks just for Genius network members. And I, I've interviewed most of those people. So I've seen, I've seen a lot of stuff and I've seen a lot of people change. And you know you said something really important about your, your fiance. Yeah. Is that she was with you when you were broke. Right. Is you, you need to protect yourself by not. By having people that will call you on your. By people that are not. Yes. People. And when you start surrounding, when you have this holier than mouth sort of attitude and you start VIP roping people to talk to you, you start traveling around with bodyguards, which some people do. Even they don't need bodyguards. That's all because they're super insecure. And it's a posturing thing. It works because a lot of people think you're special if you pretend like you're special. But you got to, you literally need to keep solid, foundational people that aren't impressed with your status.

[Joe Polish]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Guest]

That really want to protect you, but you also got to be that person too. You got to protect and be willing to have them criticize who you are. Talking Alex Epstein about that. Like have people that like invite criticism. Don't attack the messenger. Now there's two types of criticism though. There's tons of people that will criticize you that don't know you at all. So most criticism, that's toxic and they don't really know who you are. They're taking a soundbite they disagree with and just start attacking you as a person. Most criticism like that is self hatred turned outward. Right. So but people that really know you, that say, hey, you know, check yourself before you wreck yourself. Right. So damn important. And that's why I'm always encouraging people. Like if someone just does a podcast, but they don't do the internal work, they may sound smart and they may convince themselves that they know their shit because they're talking to people that know their shit. Like, look at how much 1500 interviews, including, you know what I like about you is you interview people that you don't agree with because you're trying to seek to Understand not to be understood. A Stephen Covey line. Right. And you're trying to explore perspective. Like, okay, I mean, don't live in an echo chamber. Like, talk to people that have polar opposite beliefs as you, because you don't ever change anyone's mind by arguing with them. You can debate, you can open them up, but if it's constant, just attack, attack, attack. So people that are really looking out for you, that will call you on your shit is important. Secondly, you don't just want people that point out where you're screwed up or make mistakes. They also come with, hey, take a look at it. And here's, here's another perspective or here's a solution. So, yeah, I like people that will call me on my ship, but they'll also offer a solution.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Because if all they do is point out the bad news, but they don't say, here's how to think about this, here's what we need to do, it's kind of like, oh, well, now you're just making me feel bad. Yeah, but you know, and sometimes there is no good news. You know, it's, it's like, no, this is fucked up and we need to, to deal with it. But you know, everyone's going to go through those stages, you know, wherever you're at.

[Joe Polish]

And that's a nominal advice because when I have people close to me just saying yes to everything, I'm like, dude, I do not like that. That's a red flag to me. State your opinion.

[Unknown Guest]

There's trying to, they're trying to kiss up. And you, yeah, you want people that are critical thinkers and that have enough care that they will, if you're getting injured, if you're overworked, they're going to be like, hey man, get some lunch, get some sleep. But a lot of times that's why you've seen so many, so much addiction in the entertainment field. Because they, these, some of these agents and managers are toxic. Because if they can keep the person running and drugged up and prop them up. You ever seen, you know, Pink Floyd, the Wall of the movie?

[Joe Polish]

No, I haven't.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, you know, it's, I mean, a little bit before your time, however. You know the band Pink Floyd?

[Joe Polish]

I know, I know the band.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. I know one of the members of Pink Floyd who's full blown conservative, but no one would ever know.

[Joe Polish]

Really.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And he, I was talking to him, I go, how do you. You. Because he lives in la, right? And, and I'm like, how do you deal with so many of the the people in. In the music and entertainment field that are completely woke. And he's like, well, what? For one, acceptance. Secondly, you know, I believe in the Constitution. I believe everyone has the right to believe what they want. That's the beauty of America. And you also find out that facts trigger some people if you. If you know that, you tell them, here's the reality, let me show. And it triggers them. And so when someone's so far gone, you know, you do your best to love them, but also know that, you know, everyone's got their own path. Everyone's got their own journey.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

You know, what's that roomy thing, you know, beyond the field of. Beyond right and wrong, there's a field, you know, I'll meet you there. However it goes, sometimes you got to be like, all right, you know, what's. Ram Dass is like, we're all just trying to walk each other home.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

After you get through the anger and the. In all this sort of stuff, I mean, look up any.

[Joe Polish]

Oh, what'd you say?

[Unknown Guest]

What's that?

[Joe Polish]

What were you saying?

[Unknown Guest]

No, no. Yeah, like part I. By the way, everything I'm saying here, it's rare that I do that. Like, I have to be at a higher. My higher self to often have this because, I mean, there's a lot of evil in the world.

[Joe Polish]

Oh, there is.

[Unknown Guest]

And there's some people like, oh, you know, there, There. There is evil. I believe so. You know, part of it is trying to get know that however someone is and however they act, it's. It's based on the atmospheric conditions of their life. Yeah. My friend Dr. Don Wood says if you understood the atmospheric conditions of somebody's life, it would make sense why they are the way they are. See that dude's outfit? Like, which guy? They got the red. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good.

[Joe Polish]

Even the one he sent me yesterday was crazy with the horns.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Polish]

That guy stormed. The guy. Yeah, he was the character J. Sixer. Yeah. It's equal. Interesting to see the narrative on J6ers change so much.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, they are really political prisoners. I mean, a lot of ways. And that's another example of framing. You can I remember during the. This G6 conference, I don't know how many years ago it was in Canada and there were people protesting on the corner and just on this little corner, and it wasn't violent or anything, but there are people screaming really loud. But I was seeing all over the news how there's this riots in Canada and it Just reinforced how much bullshit propaganda is pushed out on people and they don't see. You know, because we could talk about everyone being here, but unless the camera sees it, you don't really know everything going on. But yeah, there, there is so much framing. Like my, my interview with Tucker Carlson. I, I asked him what, what does he watch media wise? He's like, I've been there. I've worked in for you. I don't watch any. It's all bullshit. Yeah. Like, I know what, I know who those people are. It's really interesting. So, yeah, finding new sources through podcasts. Finding new sources through, you know, Epoch Times, who is my friend Jan, who's the senior editor you, you interviewed right before me. Yeah, I mean, they're, they're a great organization, really do the research.

[Joe Polish]

Unbiased sources. Yeah, they're rare these days because a lot of people are getting paid off in one way or another and they're even infiltrating podcasts now. So you really got to be aware what's going on behind the scenes.

[Unknown Guest]

Completely. Completely.

[Joe Polish]

I do not watch the news anymore, that's for sure.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, Yeah. I will only watch it to get a perspective on propaganda. Like, I'll watch CNN just to see like, let's see what horse they're making people today.

[Joe Polish]

That's so funny.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. I mean, by. Limit it though, because if you, you know, if you constantly expose yourself to fear porn, it is a dopamine trainer and dopamine is the neurotransmitter of anticipation and violence and sex and everything else just draws your brain in and you got to be careful what you expose yourself to. Kind of like it's like sunburn people. Like, the sun is healthy. Not if you sit in it all. Well, actually the sun is healthy. All the stuff with sun, I don't even wear sunglasses because that's a whole nother conversation about what they, what they can. You know, it trains your, your brain to not produce certain things in the skin and. But you could get burned with anything. You could overexpose it. Part of this is moderation, but it's probably a good policy for peace of mind to not watch any news.

[Joe Polish]

For sure. I look back at my early years of entrepreneurship and I was working the same hours and I was really dedicated and I, I think one of the reasons I was so flipped, flatlined was the news and like just surrounding myself with the wrong energy. Yeah, yeah. Information, you know.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Joe Polish]

Because I was working 15 hours a day for 4 years straight, but I was only making 50k a year.

[Unknown Guest]

Right. And. But it kept you in that. Driven, constant, exhausted but working. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's tired and wired. Yeah, that we live in a culture of people that are wired and they're tired because of screens and all that.

[Joe Polish]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Guest]

But it's. What's what, you know, people will live in gated communities and they'll have alarm systems and they'll have cameras and they'll have all these sort of boundaries and memberships to things. But through the screens there's no boundary.

[Joe Polish]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

They'll let anything into their brain. So the physical, they try to protect themselves from physical dangers, but oftentimes they're oblivious to the psychological dangers. And so the physical dangers are less than they've ever been before. Even though the last five years of the pandemic had showed how much physical dangers. And when I say less, I say this as an American in a pretty great place for me. There's a lot of people that are not in a great place. There's people that are war torn countries right now that there's no fucking safety. There's no psychological safety, there's no physical safety. Their lives are horrible. You know, I mean, I wake up every day and I try to remind myself that there's 3 billion people on the planet whose dreams would come true to change places with either one of us for like an hour, you know. And so all that being said, these psychological dangers are doing more damage to people in America than even the physical. I mean, look at the rate of suicide with young people. Look what happens with soldiers. I mean, more soldiers die from suicide than die in combat.

[Joe Polish]

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, that's crap. You know, it's like, why is that? It's not getting shot, it's not bombs, it's not all, you know, some of them die that way. However, it's this internal pain that's not addressed and it's sad. It's really sad. So that's, that's why, you know, I have addiction recovery. I just want to try to not. And again, it's not because I'm some, you know, philanthropic angel or anything. I mean, I don't pay myself any, anything from the foundation. I devote a lot of time, but it helps me my own recovery. And if you want your life to be better, you think your life is difficult, go find someone whose life is more difficult, volunteer, be present with them, do that sort of stuff. Your life will get better. It's counterintuitive. It took you know, and people that want to try to be contributing. If you're not contributing when you're broke, you're probably not going to be that much of a contributor when you have money, unless you're. You're doing it to Virtue signal or try to, you know, look like you're doing good stuff in the world, which a lot of people do. I mean, there, there's so many famous podcasters, authors, speakers that are basically communal narcissists. They give away cars. Yeah. They're. They constantly talking about how much money they're raising for all these things. But it's like, okay, well, you know, how many things do you do that you never tell anyone about?

[Joe Polish]

You know, some of the most euphoric feelings I've had is just giving a homeless guy a sandwich or something. That's like the best I'll feel the whole day.

[Unknown Guest]

Exactly. And someone doesn't have to go and broadcast that on social media or even tell your girlfriend or your spouse or your husband, which is nice to do because oftentimes that will train people. That's a good thing to do. So I'm not opposed to that because anything that will help people do. Big givers. But I will say if you're only doing it for public recognition, then it's not sincere.

[Joe Polish]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Guest]

It's a bit of a con and it's convincing yourself that you're a good person. And if you have a lot of guilt and you have a lot of shame, there may be a tendency to try to make up for it. But I'll tell you, I tell people that aren't even in recovery, go to an open 12 step meeting and just sit there before you make a judgment on something. And sit with people that are in pain and share experience, strength and hope with them, or listen to their experience, strength and hope, and it does wonders.

[Joe Polish]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Guest]

And yeah, that's what I hope happens. I think that's happening here in a lot of ways. There's a friend of mine, Deanne Adamson, who runs a psychedelic and plant medicine integration coaching business called Being True to you. And she's like, the progressives in the woke culture are trying to take plant medicines and psychedelics, and people are in a very vulnerable state and they're trying to program them in very bad ways, which she has a. I should have. I'll introduce you to her at least. Be fascinating.

[Joe Polish]

How's that podcast?

[Unknown Guest]

Fascinating. But it's. Yeah, but it's, you know, so be careful who you spend time with. Always look at, you know, your own Behavior who you're doing. And like you said, you know, pursue people that make you feel good and are awesome. And I, I call it ELF versus that, which we talked with Chris Voss about. You know, who are people, projects, things, activities that for you, not me. I don't tell anyone what success is. I. There's certain things that I don't play golf. I have friends that love golf. It's like the greatest thing in the world. I always use the George Carlin line. I think it's a waste of real estate, but, you know, but it's really not. I say that just to piss off golfers, but it's like, who. What is elf? Easy, lucrative and fun or easy liberating and fun if no money's involved? And what is half hard, annoying, lame and frustrating or oftentimes harden only lucrative. And so put more ELF in your life, people, and get rid of the half. And if you get rid of more of the half, you have more time for the elf and that's. That is life.

[Joe Polish]

Yes, sir. I love it, man. Joe, what's next for you? I'm joining Genius Network next year, so I can't wait to be there. What else you got coming up?

[Unknown Guest]

I love it. You know, what's next, boy? We're going to hopefully save 20,000 lives a year with putting physical genius recovery kits into homes and recovery centers and, you know, any organizations that want to support addiction recovery. GeniusRecovery.org is our educational platform. Just building out my ghost town. I have a 40 acre ghost town called Cleater, Arizona. Nice, Cleater. I've turned it into a term. What's a goal, a dream, something crazy that you never think you would do. So I started. This is the couple of friends and we want. It's our version of a moonshot. What is your Cleta? Because I never thought I'd buy a damn ghost town. And it's one of the funnest artist platforms that I have. And then in 2025, you know, shit, man. Just, you know, the MAHA event kind of came in a lot of ways because I introduced Cali Means to Bobby Kennedy. That led to the introduction to Trump. And then seeing that. And there's no Maha without addiction recovery. So that. And just you know, hopefully keep trying to be the best version of myself as I can be. Purge the, the shit that I don't like and know, do more of the stuff that I do like. And learning from people like you too. Like, I've always been like ignoring social media for the most part. And I don't really like it. But when you don't really like something, that's because you haven't really vibed with it yet. Nothing's ultimately good or bad. It's just, you know, do you. Is it working for you or not? So when people are like, I hate marketing. Well, you want to hate marketing if it's, you know, supporting what it is you're trying to do. So I don't think anything's ultimately per se. Well, some things are, but when I'm talking like certain types of advertising, marketing, messaging, is per se good or bad? It's there's certain tools you use and others that you don't. What I don't like about social media is it is magnetically draws me in out of curiosity and I'm a super curious person so I have to protect myself. If I put stuff out there, how are people responding to it? So, you know. Yeah, just trying to raise my level of consciousness ultimately and you know.

[Joe Polish]

Yeah, we'll link your stuff below. Thanks again. Yep. Thanks for watching guys. Check out his stuff. See you next time.

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