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The Hidden Cost of Success Most Founders Won't Admit | Divij Vaswani DSH #1020
00:38:56
The hidden cost of success isn't what you think - and most founders won't tell you the truth about it. 🎯 In this powerful conversation, Divij Vaswani opens up about his journey from ego-driven entrepreneur to finding purpose through faith. Get ready fo
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- [00:01]
A
I love people watching too.
- [00:02]
B
Yeah, it's fun.
- [00:03]
A
You learn a lot from it. Might be observing people, like, what are.
- [00:06]
B
Some of your big takeaways?
- [00:07]
A
Micro expressions. So, like, facial expressions. I could tell, like, if they're confident, if they're like, maybe depressed even just based off facial expressions and body language. This stuff's really important for me.
- [00:17]
B
What happens when your father, your mother, your sister, your cousin is the person that's, you know, talking to the waiter in a poor manner? You know, do you reprimand them? Like, do you say, like, yo, you shouldn't be talking to this person this way. You can't bring the.
- [00:28]
A
What is it?
- [00:29]
B
You can't feed the horse. We can bring the water to the horse. To the water.
- [00:32]
A
Yeah, yeah. All right, guys from LA division here today. Thanks for coming on, man.
- [00:41]
B
Absolutely. I'm super excited to be here.
- [00:42]
A
We've been chatting for a while now.
- [00:44]
B
Yeah. I've known about who you were because we have mutual friends, but never had a chance to actually meet you, so I'm excited to.
- [00:50]
A
First time meeting. That's the power podcast, man, for sure. People you talk to for years online, you finally get to sit down, chop it up.
- [00:56]
B
Yeah.
- [00:57]
A
You know? Yeah, I've heard about you for a while now and you've really integrated yourself well in the space.
- [01:01]
B
Thank you.
- [01:02]
A
You got a great reputation.
- [01:03]
B
Thank you.
- [01:04]
A
Is that something you were.
- [01:05]
B
People are saying good things.
- [01:06]
A
Yeah. I've never heard of that. We have, which is props to you, man.
- [01:09]
B
Thank you.
- [01:10]
A
Because in L. A there's a lot of shit talk.
- [01:12]
B
Yeah, man. Reputation is everything, I think, you know, especially when you start doing business seriously, you realize, like, this is a long term game. This is not. We're not here for a week, for a month. We're here for a year, for. Not for a year, for longer than a year, for decades, for decades. And so I think for me, like, I'm playing the long game. I. I'm all about people. I think as I've gotten deeper in my faith, I've realized too, like, this is all we got, you know, I'm saying, like, you can't take the money with you. It's just a tool. And so for me, it's. It's glory to God, and I'm just excited to sit down and have cool conversations.
- [01:43]
A
Yeah. It sounds like you value relationships more than money.
- [01:46]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. Money comes, man. It's like, I think when you treat people fairly and you bring value, like significant value, which is making other people money, connecting people, whatever it may be. I mean, the money will flow. And it's like, you can't take it with you. You know what I'm saying? Like, obviously it'd be great to have millions and millions and millions to pass along to the next generation, but you can't take it with you, man. Like, I. I care about my people and that's it.
- [02:10]
A
Did you have this belief when you weren't as financially set to.
- [02:14]
B
No, I was. My story is pretty interesting. I mean, I think we all have a similar journey in the sense of a lot of us struggle with ego and pride. Right. Especially in your early 20s. And I started making a lot of money and I was like, dude, I'm getting the nicest cars, like the nicest watches. And I was just focused on. On the wrong things. But I think it definitely, you know, I had to go through some stuff. I had to go through some pain and some suffering before I could. Before I could learn how to truly live and exist. And I think after that pain and suffering, when I found God, that's truly when it changed for me. Like, it. It went from the ego mind to being led by the Holy Spirit and humility, and that's all that matters.
- [02:53]
A
Wow, that's powerful. I definitely want to hear that story. Yeah. I've been studying materialism and like, the mindset behind it. It seems like it kind of puts you out of touch with spirit, with spirituality.
- [03:01]
B
Yeah.
- [03:01]
A
When you're down that road, I haven't seen someone super materialistic, but also super spiritual for sure. It's a rare thing.
- [03:07]
B
Yeah. I think you can. I think it's okay to like, nice things, like if, know, you want to provide for your family, you want to give them the best experiences, you want to take, you know, your mom around the world and, you know, make sure everyone's comfortable. And I think money is the tool that makes those things happen. But it's not. It shouldn't be your God. It shouldn't be what you wake up and you praise, you know?
- [03:26]
A
Yeah.
- [03:27]
B
So that I think that's the difference is when you praise the Lord and you walk on his path, for you, the money will flow, man. It's just like. Just comes, you know?
- [03:35]
A
Y. So my earlier 20s, similar to you, all about money. That was my number one goal. I put it over family, friends, and my own health. Even I wasn't going. Going to the gym, wasn't working out, wasn't doing anything, and my mental health was complete also from that. So you can't be laser focused on just money for sure. A lot of sacrifice Lot of.
- [03:53]
B
Yeah, for sure. Health is the first. The first thing. I mean, I was on the plane over here this morning, and I'm looking at the guy next to me. He's probably in his 70s or 80s, and I'm thinking, I'm like, this guy's had a whole life. He's sitting here, he's watching the news. He had the news on his computer or on the. The airplane screen, but he fell asleep within two minutes. And I'm looking at him. I'm kind of observing. I'm like, what's important? Like, the money on the screen right now, Like, Fox News talking about what's happening on Wall street or this guy's bodily organs. Like, you know what I mean? And so again, back to the money. Money is great, but if you're on your deathbed, bro, it's like, it doesn't matter.
- [04:29]
A
Yeah, I love people watching, too.
- [04:30]
B
Yeah, it's fun.
- [04:31]
A
You learn a lot from it. When I'm at the airport or in public, yeah, I'd be observing people.
- [04:35]
B
What. What's. Like, what are some of your, like, most common, I guess, observances? Like, I'm switching the podcast back to you.
- [04:40]
A
No, you're good.
- [04:41]
B
Like, what do you notice about people? Like, what are some of your big takeaways?
- [04:45]
A
Micro expressions. So, like, facial expressions. I could tell, like, if they're confident, if they're, like, maybe depressed, even just based off facial expressions and body language. I look at how they treat people, so if they're with someone, I see how they're talking to them. That kind of shows me, like, their leadership style. And this is stuff I'm observing before I even film with my guests. Normally, I look at how they treat my staff because sometimes I have my assistant here or something.
- [05:08]
B
Yeah.
- [05:09]
A
I see if they talk to them the same way as me. And for me, that's a huge thing. Like, treat everyone the same.
- [05:13]
B
Yeah.
- [05:14]
A
When I'm at restaurants, I see how they treat the server. This stuff's really important for me, for sure.
- [05:18]
B
100, man. It's so important. Like, people. You know what's interesting? I was thinking about this. What is what happens when it's your family member that's the piece of, you know, I mean, like, what happens when your father, your mother, your sister, your cousin is the person that's, you know, talking to the waiter in a poor manner? How do you deal with that? Right. And that's something I've been kind of trying. Trying to figure out is like, you know, do you reprimand them? Like, do you say, like, yo, you shouldn't be talking to this person this way. And I've been praying about it because I have someone very close in my family that operates that way, and it is terrible because I. I'm very kind to people, like any person I see, you know, I try to be as kind as I say thank you, you know, and make sure they feel seen. So I've been praying about it, and I think what I've learned is you just have to be the example and you just have to lead with kindness, and hopefully the people around you will. Will realize it and do it themselves. But you can't bring the. What is it? You can't feed the horse. We can bring the water to the horse to the water.
- [06:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that. No facts, though. And that's. I think boundaries are important in that situation. So with my family, I have strict boundaries with business stuff because they're not entrepreneurs. So I love my family, but they try to give me advice in entrepreneurship. It's not. It's not conducive. Like, it's not. It's not going to work most of the time because they haven't been down that path. I'd rather get advice from someone that's an entrepreneur. So I think boundaries are important. And if they're treating people like at a restaurant, it's really hard to change people, man. So I'm probably just not even going to go out with you to eat anymore, you know?
- [06:42]
B
Yeah, I feel that, man. Boundaries is something I've been struggling with for sure. I mean, that's like, probably the hardest thing in my life right now is, you know, you got two parents, right? And they're. That's all you got, your mom and your dad, and they brought you into this world with the. The grace of God. And I think, you know, you. I think for me, it's. I struggle with. I really want to give them the best life because they've worked so hard for me to be where I'm at. But you also got to remember, like, you've got your own priorities. You got to go to the gym, you got to eat healthy, you got to work, and you got to balance all these things. And so something that. It's just something I've been kind of trying to figure out is how much time is enough with the people that I love. And I think what I'm realizing is every day, I kind of just in the evening, I'll observe and kind of look back at the day, and I'm like, I'LL kind of like do self reflection. And I think that's been super helpful, like micro self reflection to understand if my time is being spelled, spent the most wisely.
- [07:36]
A
Yeah. That's so relatable, man. I was such a giver growing up. I used to put everyone before me.
- [07:41]
B
Yeah.
- [07:41]
A
And it ate at me, man. I realized how to put myself first in certain situations for sure. So that was a big learning lesson. But I always wanted a people please. I don't know if it was some childhood trauma or something, but that was how I thought growing up with friends, with family, I wanted to put them before me, but that's not sustainable in the long run.
- [08:00]
B
God gave us one holy temple and we got to take care of it. If we don't take care of it, no one's going to do it for us.
- [08:04]
A
Yeah. So it was tough, though, because I lived that way for years. That was a habit break.
- [08:10]
B
It's. It comes with growth.
- [08:11]
A
You're.
- [08:11]
B
Are you 25, 26. Yeah. We're about the same age. I mean, I think I didn't get it till just now.
- [08:16]
A
Yeah.
- [08:16]
B
I mean, like, it took me a while to really understand and realize, like, how to even exist, and I think I'm just finally getting it.
- [08:22]
A
Yeah. Life's a constant game of learning. Right. You're never completed, in my opinion. You're always figuring stuff.
- [08:29]
B
The guy who started KFC, I think, was like 75 when he started it.
- [08:33]
A
I saw that.
- [08:34]
B
So, you know, you never. You never know when it's your time.
- [08:36]
A
You really don't, man. I've lost some people almost every year now that are young.
- [08:40]
B
Lost, like dead.
- [08:41]
A
Yeah.
- [08:42]
B
I'm so sorry.
- [08:43]
A
Yeah. But I feel like that's more and more common these days with the health epidemic and everything. You know, we're hearing of people passing away every year at this point.
- [08:50]
B
Yeah, it's. It's so unfortunate, man. And I think it truly. And I'm so sorry for your loss.
- [08:55]
A
Thank you.
- [08:56]
B
But I think it comes down to, like, how you view death. Right. Like, I've been so. My mom had a double lung transplant. She had idiopathic. Yeah. Pretty insane. She had idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, which is terminal scarring of the lungs. Your lungs just start deteriorating. And she got a lung transplant. Glory to God, she's still alive. But that pain and suffering taught me, like, truly, again, what's important, which is the people around you and your friends and your family. And I think we just have to do everything we can do on a daily basis to control what we can control, which is lifestyle, what we consume, how much we sleep, what we eat, how much time we spend in the gym, and just these simple things. Hydration levels. And, you know, I'm no biohacking expert, but I'm trying my best. Like, I. I'm listening to Huberman. I'm listening to Ben Greenfield, and I'm trying to just, like, take in all this knowledge, because especially as a man, bro, like, I read a quote, it said, men are not designed to be happy. Women are meant. Are to be. Are designed to be happy. It's our job to make sure that they are happy. And so I think what that kind of taught me was, you know, I agree with it, and I don't agree with it. I think we do need to be happy, and I think that comes with discipline. It comes when we're chasing things, I think, as men, like, we're our best selves when we're aligned on our purpose, you know?
- [10:10]
A
Yeah.
- [10:10]
B
And so that's just what I try to focus on is making money, bringing glory to God, focusing on my family, and working out.
- [10:17]
A
I mean, love it.
- [10:18]
B
That's it.
- [10:18]
A
Work out, baby.
- [10:19]
B
That's it. That's all that matters, baby. We in the gym.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah. Sean Strickland actually tweeted this. I'm not sure if you saw this about the men's mental health, how men are not deserving, designed to be happy. He's getting a lot of push back on it.
- [10:30]
B
Really.
- [10:30]
A
This was, like, a few days ago.
- [10:32]
B
That's. Might have. Might have been where I saw it.
- [10:33]
A
It might have been. Yeah. I thought it was interesting. I think. I think we're all designed to. To enjoy happiness, though.
- [10:40]
B
Yeah.
- [10:40]
A
I don't think we're set to not be happy.
- [10:42]
B
I agree with you. I. I just think it's. I agree with you. I think we all should be happy. We should all aim to be happy. But I don't know, there's something about that quote kind of stuck. I was like, you know, we're the providers. Like, we got to be disciplined. We got to be focused. We got to be structured, and that's our job. I mean, is to. To provide for others, but not at the expense of happiness. I agree with you. We should still be happy.
- [11:02]
A
Absolutely. Where are you on your journey with happiness?
- [11:05]
B
It's a daily struggle, man. I think what I've been dealing with recently is I'm a morning person, so if I'm up at 4am, 5am I'm feeling really good about the day. Like, I feel like my Dopamine levels are high, you know, just feeling good. But the days where I wake up, maybe later, I'm kind of like my happiness levels go down. And so it kind of comes down to a day to day basis. I think, you know, if my day starts off with being grateful, I'm able to journal and meditate and read the Word. Right now I'm in Genesis, just kind of revisiting how the world started. And you know, today was a beautiful morning. I Woke up at 5, hopped on a plane, spent the first few hours with God. But the days where I don't spend time with God in the morning, I realize I'm just not as happy those days.
- [11:49]
A
Wow.
- [11:50]
B
And so that's been the hack for me is as long as I have time to, to learn about the, the Word and about God and read, read scripture. I'm good.
- [11:57]
A
That's crazy. So it's a daily battle with you, Honesty.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah, it's a daily battle, man. I mean, I think I don't do therapy, you know, I think the other thing I'll say is the days that I box, like when I'm punching stuff.
- [12:08]
A
Yeah.
- [12:08]
B
I'm feeling great.
- [12:09]
A
Lots of stress reliever probably. So you sounds like you're stressed out.
- [12:12]
B
Just, you know how it is. I mean, you're building a company and stress comes and goes. That you just have to manage it.
- [12:17]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I feel the same though. I'm in a couple basketball leagues. The days I play, I'm super pumped. Like, I feel great after. Especially after a sauna session.
- [12:24]
B
Yeah.
- [12:25]
A
So, yeah, I don't think happiness is like a permanent state of mind. I agree with you.
- [12:28]
B
It's not. It might be for some people. I think some people might just be wired in certain ways and some of us are wired differently. But by no means am I depressed. Like, I'm actually. I'm very happy. I'm very grateful. Right. Like that's, it's all mindset.
- [12:40]
A
Yeah.
- [12:41]
B
But there's days. I have my days. Yeah.
- [12:43]
A
Gratitude's important for sure. Gratitude, journal.
- [12:45]
B
Do you write down every day?
- [12:47]
A
Yeah, five to 10 things every day for the past four years now. And it's incredible. The days I don't write it down, I actually notice that I'm off.
- [12:55]
B
Yeah.
- [12:55]
A
It's that noticeable at this point.
- [12:57]
B
Can I ask you. You don't have to tell me, but are you writing down a lot of the same things every day they come.
- [13:01]
A
Up, like, obviously my fiance, my dogs, my loved ones come up probably once a week, but I try to mix it up I try to be grateful for as many things as possible.
- [13:09]
B
Yeah.
- [13:09]
A
Yeah. What about you?
- [13:10]
B
It's mostly my mom, my dad, my sister, you know, my girlfriend. And the people and God, obviously those are like my top five. But some days I'll find myself adding in something just random. Like I'm grateful for my coffee or I'm grateful for like, you know, the curtains, like, whatever.
- [13:24]
A
It's the little things, right?
- [13:25]
B
Yeah.
- [13:25]
A
Because we live such a fast paced lifestyle, we rarely. Well, now it sounds like you're reflecting more, but for me, I wasn't reflecting for a while.
- [13:32]
B
Yeah.
- [13:32]
A
And I got normalized to like life's life almost. Even though I had this huge house, you know, great friends, great people, I never sat down and thought about it. Isn't that crazy?
- [13:42]
B
Crazy. Have to reflect.
- [13:44]
A
Have to.
- [13:45]
B
It's so impactful, bro. Too. Like, I'll be honest with you. I had a moment this morning where I was a. A bad dater. Like I was. Or a bad boyfriend in my last relationship. I dated this girl for six years. I cheated on her. I was a piece of.
- [13:56]
A
Whoa.
- [13:57]
B
Right. Because I was, I was young. I mean, I didn't, I didn't. I didn't know who God was. I wasn't on the right path. I was. I was being led by my ego. But this morning I. I got this new book yesterday by Chad Veach, who's my pastor at Zoe. It's called this book is not about you. And it's about how you can go from your pride mindset to your humility mindset. And as soon as I open the book, I start balling, bro. On the plane, I'm just like crying, sitting there crying, and I'm just writing down. I pulled out my journal and I started just, you know, going crazy on like what was coming out of my brain. And it was a realization. I was reflecting and it was a realization of the hurt that I caused my ex because of my pride. And now I have a new girlfriend. And, you know, through that experience, I've learned how to treat other people and. And I would never make the same mistakes again. But I think it's important to reflect because you, you get to forgive yourself. You know, you get to kind of understand where you went wrong and then you just don't make the same mistake again. Like, yeah, we're all human.
- [14:54]
A
We all up. I really appreciate that, honestly. Because a lot of people talk negatively about their ex and they put the blame on them usually. No, doing the opposite.
- [15:01]
B
You got to take ownership. Everything that's happened in My life is my fault. Everything that's gone wrong is my fault. Everything besides maybe, you know, my mom's disease, obviously that wasn't my fault, but, like, you know, the worldly things that I'm doing or that I'm interacting with, it's all on me. And like, once you have the ownership and you take charge of that, your life just like, bro, the weight off the shoulders, you know what I mean?
- [15:25]
A
Facts.
- [15:25]
B
Just feel relieved, bro. And you, like, the Bible says, cast your anxiety to God, and that's what I do.
- [15:30]
A
I had a victim mindset for a majority of my life, and it was. Was toxic, man. I never took ownership for messing up. But, yeah, now I'm probably similar to you. I'll take ownership and it feels great. Yeah, I can own up to it and then fix it and address it 100, man.
- [15:46]
B
It's the victim mindset is just. It's weakness. And we all go through that phase, I think. But the earlier you realize this, the better your life becomes.
- [15:53]
A
Yeah, it's easy to get in that phase. I wonder why that's happening to so many people. Actually.
- [15:59]
B
I don't know. I wish I had the answers. I think every. The world is a hard place, bro. Like, there's so much pressure now with social media. Like, you know, you wake up, you look at your phone, people are killing it. You see Jake Paul doing all these crazy things. You're like, like, I'm 28. What am I doing? And I think that leads to just this cycle of, you know, you putting yourself down and negative self talk. And I think people. It's just a hard time, bro. But I think if you align yourself with the right community, you know, you find a good church, you reflect and you stay in the gym, you exercise, you eat good. Like, those are all things that I think help combat those negative, you know, mindsets.
- [16:36]
A
Yeah. So I think part of the reason for my success is when I see competition doing well, I love it. You know, I don't get pissed. You know, I don't get upset. I treat that as motivation. And I think that little shift right there is how I was able to grow the podcast pretty fast.
- [16:50]
B
Yeah, because you're, You're. It's. You versus you. It's not you versus them. Right. Like, bring your enemies closer always. I think that's. There's a. There's a saying, it's work hard until your. Your mentor becomes your enemy or something. Does that make sense?
- [17:03]
A
Yeah, yeah. Mentor becomes enemy.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah, like, work hard till they know who you are and that, you know, you're on the same playing field. But I think anybody in this industry that you're in, like, you should always keep them close and just be kind, bro. Like, it's not all about you.
- [17:17]
A
Yeah. And I'm really collaborative. That's one thing I noticed about certain other people. They hold their connections really dear to heart, which is fine. But I think I'm able to grow quick because I'm so giving. So I know. I believe in karma, so I believe that energy will come back to me. So I'll give off my connections. I'll get them on other shows that are competition of mine. To me, it doesn't matter for sure.
- [17:38]
B
I mean, it always comes back to you too, right? Like, you share a guest with me for our podcast with George Danko with my show, we then send you 10 back. You know, it's like, it's all. It's all relationships, bro. And you just got to be good to the person across the table.
- [17:51]
A
Yeah, I'm big on that, man. Reputation relationships these days. You can't get away with. With scamming and anything anymore.
- [17:57]
B
No.
- [17:57]
A
Like, your reputation screwed. From there on, word spreads.
- [18:00]
B
I have a story about that real quick.
- [18:01]
A
Yeah.
- [18:01]
B
I was in Germany on a Lufthansa flight, and the airline wasn't taking off. We were sitting on the plane for hours. And I meet the guy next to me, who I won't say his name, but we start talking chit chatting. Turns out he went to the same school as me, and he knew someone that I knew. And I brought something up that I knew about that person from college. And I asked him about it, and he said it was something about being on a sports team. And he was like, that guy wasn't on this sports team. Like, he wasn't even around us at the time. So what I learned was my friend back home was lying to me about what he was doing to impress me, which is fine, you know, I forgive him. But he was lying and just making these stories up to make himself feel better. When I found out in Germany from a stranger that that wasn't true.
- [18:46]
A
Whoa.
- [18:46]
B
And so my point with this is the world really is small, right? Like, so the moment you talk ill about somebody, I promise you that person's gonna go tell that person, or that person's probably, you know, the person that's talking ill about the person is probably also talking ill about you. Like, it's just such, bro. Like, you got to be positive. Even if I think something negative about a person, if I do think something And I'm making a judgment. It's more a reflection on, on me and how I feel about myself. So if you ever have anything negative, with maybe the exception of a terrorist or like someone that's killing or harming people, obviously you might be like, okay, that guy's a bad person. But yeah, man, just like, you know.
- [19:25]
A
Be kind for the most part, it's not productive. And talking ill, something I learned in public school, you know, that was always the gossip of town, like, oh, who hooked up with who? Like that guy's ugly, Stuff like that. And I had to get out of that mindset for sure.
- [19:38]
B
Yeah.
- [19:39]
A
Now when I catch myself talking ill, I actually feel bad after. Like, I literally feel it in my body, like, wow, why did I just do that?
- [19:45]
B
Yeah.
- [19:46]
A
So I try my best not to do that anymore.
- [19:48]
B
That's good. It's good that you're recognizing, you know, kind of what you're. What you're doing wrong. And that's all it is, right? You. We all make mistakes. You just have to catch it.
- [19:55]
A
Yeah. I also feel. Feel like the truth always comes out. Like you said earlier with that example. The truth always just finds its way out.
- [20:02]
B
Always.
- [20:02]
A
Like, you can't hide.
- [20:04]
B
Can't hide.
- [20:04]
A
Yeah. That's why I can't sleep at night. Cuz I'm not lying or anything, you know.
- [20:10]
B
Consciousness. Yeah. Dude, when you look in the mirror and you're brushing your teeth, like, and you have done something wrong and you're brushing your teeth and you're like, you're fine about it, there's a problem. Like not you, but like people in general, like, you know, consciousness will, I think the conscious will always come and bite you in the butt. And so honesty is always the best, you know, move. I think if you did something wrong, just admit it. You know, say sorry, apologize, and just. You'll be surprised at the compassion that the other person might have.
- [20:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. Apology is something I used to never do because of my ego. And you said you dealt with some ego stuff earlier, right?
- [20:43]
B
Yeah.
- [20:43]
A
How did you get, I guess find out first of all that you had it and how did you overcome it?
- [20:48]
B
It was obvious, you know, I went on a reality show and when I came back, I was, you know, buying all these cars and I was, you know, doing all this crazy stuff and treating the people around me kind of just in a poor fashion. And I started realizing that it was getting really bad when I started losing people around me that I truly cared about. And so I had to really check myself and I started Just diving into my faith, and I was like, I'm on the wrong path. God, like, steer me to where I need to be. And that's all it was. It was a pretty quick flip from my. The pride mindset to the. The Holy Spirit mindset. But again, I'm not perfect, dude. I still have a ton of pride. Right. Which I struggle with every day. And I'm not a saint and just gotta try and be our best, you know? That's all it is.
- [21:33]
A
Well, a lot of entrepreneurs have high narcissism scores.
- [21:36]
B
Really?
- [21:37]
A
Yeah. So there's a test called the Dark Triad test, and it measures your narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopath scores, 0 to 100. And part of being an entrepreneur is pretty high narcissism scores. From what I've seen with. I've had hundreds of my friends take this test.
- [21:51]
B
It makes sense.
- [21:52]
A
They make sense because you kind of got to be out there. You have to be confident.
- [21:56]
B
You have to believe in yourself. Right. Like you're going out on your own. And you know this probably better than anyone. It's a pretty lonely journey, at least at first.
- [22:02]
A
Oh, at first, for sure. And then you got to find your tribe.
- [22:05]
B
Exactly. And until you find your tribe, it's super lonely. And only psychopaths would stay on that journey. You know what I mean? Like, you're isolating yourself. And I was talking to George yesterday, and he actually said that. He was like. He was like, I'm surprised you're not, like, mildly socially autistic. He didn't use those words, but he. He said it in a much better way. But the reason he said that was because, you know, I'm pretty. Pretty aggressive in business. Like, it's. It's what I love. It's my baby. I've been doing this for 15 years. You know, when I was 13 is kind of when I started selling stuff, and I realized I caught the bug. And I'm sure you have a similar story, but, yeah, dude, I struggle with social anxiety and being weird because I was just like, all I care about is achieving this goal that I have. And with that definitely comes narcissism. Because, you know, when you. If you're that dedicated to something and you achieve it, of course your ego is going to be like, oh, my God, I'm the best. Like, I'm God, you know?
- [23:00]
A
Yeah.
- [23:00]
B
But I'm not. I'm not God.
- [23:02]
A
Yeah. The first step is just being aware, I think. And most people are not even at that step. So you got to Take these tests, talk to some people, get some honest feedback.
- [23:10]
B
Yeah. Get like a board of. Almost like your own board of advisors, you know, like your top three to five people around you that you trust that aren't your yes men. Like, people that will tell you, like, yo, you're doing this incorrectly. You're being a piece of shit, like, whatever it is. And just have those board advisors and check in with them every couple weeks, you know, and do the same thing for them. You keep each other accountable. Facts. Yeah.
- [23:32]
A
I had bad anxiety, too, man. We got some similar journeys.
- [23:34]
B
Yeah.
- [23:35]
A
Crazy.
- [23:35]
B
For sure. I'm excited to do it, to talk off camera and to learn more about your stuff.
- [23:39]
A
Mine was bad, man. I was having panic attacks. Collapsing on the floor.
- [23:42]
B
You were collapsing, too?
- [23:43]
A
Physically collapsing. I thought I was having a heart attack. It was just a panic attack, but they're so powerful that it feels like a heart attack.
- [23:49]
B
Yeah. Because your heart rate is going, boom.
- [23:52]
A
Skyrocketing, man.
- [23:52]
B
Yeah.
- [23:53]
A
Yeah. Collapsed on my college dorm room floor. Was so ashamed to even tell anyone what was happening to me.
- [23:57]
B
Wow.
- [23:58]
A
Yeah. I didn't know what it was.
- [23:59]
B
How did you get out of that?
- [24:01]
A
That was a multitude of things. It wasn't like, one set thing. Good people around me. Getting a dog helped me a lot. Connecting with nature. I even started praying. And I'm not. I wasn't religious at the time.
- [24:14]
B
Yeah.
- [24:16]
A
And finding purpose, which was. That took years. But, yeah, I tried therapy. Didn't really work. I know that works for some people. Didn't work for me. Maybe it was the guy. I'm not sure. But, yeah, I was trying everything, man.
- [24:30]
B
For sure. Dude, it's. It's cool that you talk about this, because I. Not to this day, have panic attacks. But literally, like, probably six months ago, when I was going through the situation with my mom, like, I mean, dude, I was a couple times where I called the ambulance because I thought I was having a heart attack. My toes were tingling. I was like, mom, I'm dying. Like, whoa. You know what I mean? And they came and they're like, dude, you're fine. You're 27. You're super healthy. Like, what are you doing? And I realized I had a Holy Gabana on my podcast recently who was formerly known as Bunk Gang, and he had a crazy spiritual journey where he found Jesus in jail. And it's super inspiring. But he. What he. The way that he phrased anxiety was. It's almost like a spiritual rewiring. And so when you're having panic attacks, it's because God is trying to literally change the dynamics of what's happening inside of you, and he's trying to take you from X to Z, right? And so that's. That frame of mind kind of, like, was like, whoa. Like, that could be true. You know, like, the disciples were trembling, the Bible says. And so I think it's kind of the similar thing where if you do have panic attacks and anxiety and all these things, you just got to realize, like, perhaps it's God trying to set you up for something better. And I think in those moments, bro, it's just breathing, just hydrate, you know, sit down. Yeah, it's not a heart attack.
- [25:44]
A
That's fascinating. I always thought of it as a physical problem, but, yeah, I never considered the, you know, the spiritual aspect of a panic attack. Yeah, that's so fascinating.
- [25:52]
B
Yeah. I mean, you think about panic, right? Like, we all are inside our bodies in a way. And so I think in my mind, a panic attack is when what's happening inside is freaking out because of some reaction to the external or whatever. So it's not. I don't think a panic attack is a physical ailment or, you know, experience. I think it's a spiritual experience. And so I think if, you know, you have just, like, we train our biceps, bro. We got to train our spirit. Like, read the Bible or whatever word you want to read. Journal, meditate, like, you have to. It's repetitions for that, too. It's not just hitting the biceps every day.
- [26:29]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. I feel for all these people with mental health problems right now. It's. It's skyrocketing, man. It's actually insane.
- [26:35]
B
It's crazy.
- [26:35]
A
These numbers are almost unbelievable.
- [26:38]
B
Yeah, it's sad, man. It's. I. In my mind, I'm no expert, but I think it's probably the biggest epidemic that we have. And even just like, walking around town, bro, you see just sadness on people's face, and it's like, you know, you wish you could help them, and in certain ways. And what I've realized is you kind of can, you know, you smile, you give, you know, tithing. Giving money to strangers. Like, even just a smile, bro, being kind, saying thank you. Like, these things help people. And I think people don't realize, like, when you're in an elevator, for example, and everyone's super awkward and quiet, right? Like, because no one wants to say the first thing, dude, say the first thing. Like, be the person to start the conversation. Like, compliment them on their shoes. Say something stupid. Say something weird, you know, and you'll just. You'll see the person light up, bro. And when you make other people happy, that's when I think you're the happiest.
- [27:25]
A
Yeah, it feels great, right? Yeah, yeah. Being, giving, just helping out, you know, It's a fulfilling feeling, for sure. For sure. But, yeah, I can walk. I'm more sensitive as a result of this podcast to people. And when I walk the streets, man, yeah, I could feel the energy of people, and it's. It's dark.
- [27:40]
B
Yeah, it's dark.
- [27:41]
A
I look at them. It just. People are unhealthy, like, physically, mentally, spiritually, in all aspects, and you could feel it for sure. I don't know what the fix is, but.
- [27:51]
B
I don't know, man. I think it's. Everyone's got to work on themselves, and I think the answer is God, because that's been the answer for me. But you got to work on it, bro. Like, it's like, you know, my glutes right now are weak because I haven't been squatting. It's clear I have to squat. If so, if my spirit is weak, I gotta spend time lifting my spirit up.
- [28:09]
A
Right. So would you say you found your. Your purpose in life?
- [28:13]
B
Yeah, for sure, bro. It's. And it's such a relief, too, because I think I just found it, like, the last, like, six months to a year. And I think definitely, you know, I built a media business called Division Media, and I was just chasing money all the time and trying to be, you know, have as much resources as I could. And then I started managing George Janko in 2022, and we started the George Janko Show. And through that, I mean, being around George and even other people in my life, you know, outside of work, I've just seen their natural curiosity towards the gospel and, you know, shining the glory to God and doing that. And so, you know, you are the average of the five people that you hang out with. And so I started hanging around these people, and now I find myself deep in the Word, and I'm trying to just be the best version of myself every day and just learn about why we're here. And I think my purpose right now is pretty simple. It's spreading the gospel through social media.
- [29:11]
A
Right?
- [29:11]
B
And the way that we're doing that is through podcasts and through shows, and I'm just trying to see how big we can take it. You know, I want to. I want to be selling out stadiums where we're praying about Jesus and wow and doing that kind of thing. I think it'll Happen.
- [29:23]
A
So it will. Tucker Carlson just did it.
- [29:25]
B
Yeah.
- [29:25]
A
With. Who's that guy that got canceled? Russell Brand. They were praying, I think. 10, 000 people. It was beautiful to see.
- [29:32]
B
Yeah. Russell Brand is sick, dude. I just watched get him to the Greek the other day, but me and George actually went to Wisconsin and we filmed with him for the George Jenko show.
- [29:41]
A
Nice.
- [29:41]
B
We got to hang out with him. He's such a, like, just crazy, uplifting guy.
- [29:45]
A
So I love that because he was canceled and he's got such an important message. So it's cool to see that podcasting and independent media is. Is on the rise and he could get back out there.
- [29:56]
B
Yeah, for sure. I was talking to a couple pastors, Cliff and Stewart Connectley. Shout out. Cliff and Stewart. Amazing, guys. What Stuart said on my podcast, he said, even Jeffrey Dahmer can be saved.
- [30:07]
A
Whoa.
- [30:08]
B
And to me, I was like, are you sure? Are you sure, bro? Like, yeah, he's killed a lot of people. Like, it's pretty dark ways, but he's like, no. Like, the Bible says, like, anybody can be forgiven as long as they, you know, live a Christ life. Like, Christ, like life. And, you know, I think Russell Brand, whatever he did or didn't do, I just think it's great that he's on this path. And I'm sure, you know, God's forgiven him already.
- [30:31]
A
Forgiveness is super important to me. I've forgiven everyone that's wronged me, even people that have scanned me out of hundreds of thousands. I forgive them because. Yeah, just living with that resentment is so harmful.
- [30:41]
B
Yeah.
- [30:42]
A
And it's tough when people really do you wrong, but it's worse when you live with that, man.
- [30:46]
B
It is, right?
- [30:47]
A
I saw it happen with my dad. He never forgave his parents for the way they raised him. And he ran away at 18, never forgave them his whole life at 8 at him. So I didn't want to live like that.
- [30:57]
B
It's not the way to live. Yeah, bro, you just. When you. When you wake up in the morning and you just don't have any weight on your shoulders, like, there's so much power in that. And when you just carry baggage and baggage and baggage and keep letting it build, bro. Like, people will implode. Like, we're not designed to have that much baggage. We're designed to be in nature and be happy.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah. I see people, you know, with anger, and that's just not healthy, man. That stuff causes. I believe it can cause physical disease in the body, uncle. Uncontrolled emotions.
- [31:28]
B
Absolutely. I would argue that that's. And again, I'm no doctor. Like, so even just saying this is, like, you probably shouldn't even listen to me. But, like, I think probably a lot of cancers are caused from mental health issues and stress.
- [31:41]
A
You know, definitely stress. Stress almost cause health issues for me, just from stress alone. Yeah, It's a silent killer, they say.
- [31:49]
B
For sure, 100%. There's a book, great book, called Stop worrying and Start Living, I think by Dale Carnegie, and it talks all about that. Like, when you just let worry out of your life, how it can change your life for the better and just such a tremendous way. And, yeah, I think worry and stress are definitely the killers. Like, you know.
- [32:07]
A
Absolutely. I was on your Instagram. So you and George got to meet Trump, right?
- [32:12]
B
George got to meet Trump.
- [32:13]
A
Got it.
- [32:14]
B
I have not met him yet. I would love to.
- [32:15]
A
Was he on Georgia show?
- [32:17]
B
No. But if you know anybody or Trump, if you want to come on, dude, you should definitely come on. I mean, George is. I'm going to say this. His entire audience is in the swing states. He's from Arizona. He's from an immigrant family, an Assyrian family. 4 to 500 million views a month. Makes sense.
- [32:33]
A
I'll make an intro for you. I might be able to make that happen.
- [32:35]
B
I've been talking to their team. I think it's a matter of him being busy.
- [32:38]
A
Yeah. You know, he's doing rallies everywhere right now. I'm actually trying to get Kamala on my show right now.
- [32:43]
B
Dude, Crazy.
- [32:44]
A
Yeah. I want to be the first show to have on both because they seem to be, if one goes on one show, the other one won't go on type stuff.
- [32:51]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, I think that'd be crazy, dude. I think it'd just be interesting to understand both perspectives for sure. You know? And I saw Kamala. Did Kamala.
- [32:59]
A
Kamala. I was getting canceled for this. Yeah. Kept saying, kamala. It's Kamala.
- [33:03]
B
Is it Camel? Okay. Yeah. Like, I saw Kamala go and call her daddy, which I thought was interesting. Yeah. Maybe. Hopefully you can get it, make it to happen. That'd be great.
- [33:11]
A
And that's the power podcast, man. Who would have thought five, 10 years ago that these presidential candidates would be going on podcasts?
- [33:17]
B
Like, wild.
- [33:19]
A
Like, not even a thought. They were going on 60 Minutes. They were going on traditional news.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah. This is the new media, bro. Like, Sean Kelly, you are the new media, bro. Like, and that's why I'm so focused on my podcast division and building the George Janko show. Because I realized the impact that can happen, bro. Like, people, I'm reading the comments even on my episodes which get, you know, 20,000 views. Some of them are, you know, going a little bit bigger, which is exciting. But you know, people are like, dude, this episode changed my life. Like, and I'm just in my mom's room, like kicking it with her and my dog on her bed, like, just, you know, hanging out. So my point, yeah, My point of that is like, I think anybody that has a voice should vocalize if they feel like they have something to say. Because the power of tongue is very significant, bro.
- [34:02]
A
Yeah. You know, all it takes is one clip to blow up, man. Yeah, I had one yesterday. Get 20 million.
- [34:08]
B
20 million?
- [34:09]
A
Yeah.
- [34:09]
B
Damn.
- [34:10]
A
And I'm jealous it'll happen to you, dude. I've had a couple now, but that one was interesting because I was telling you before we filmed, I had a liberal on the podcast. My audience is totally right wing, but I think you still need to be having these conversations.
- [34:23]
B
Yeah.
- [34:24]
A
So that's the thing with my show is I'll have on anyone for sure. And some people are closed off to talking with other side, but you won't grow that way.
- [34:31]
B
Yeah, you gotta understand all perspectives, bro. I just had a blind person on my podcast. I. I had a 4 year old. I'm gonna have a homeless person. Like, I'm excited to hear from people that people aren't talking to. You know, like the guy that works at Jersey Mike's behind the counter. What's going through his brain, Right? Or like the nurse that's staying up till three in the morning dealing with sick people. Like, what are they thinking about? Or police officers. Like, I think we're living in a society where, you know, celebrity is big and people want to hear from those influencers and celebs and that's great. And they all have great perspectives. But let's not forget about everybody else. Like, so that's what I'm trying to do, bro.
- [35:07]
A
That's cool.
- [35:08]
B
I'm excited about.
- [35:08]
A
Yeah, no one's doing that. That's going to be cool to see you. Said a four year old.
- [35:11]
B
I had a four year old.
- [35:12]
A
Yeah.
- [35:12]
B
Shadow, Iowa.
- [35:13]
A
Wow, that's interesting.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah.
- [35:15]
A
What was the goal with that one?
- [35:17]
B
Just understanding her perspective on God and emotions.
- [35:20]
A
Whoa.
- [35:21]
B
And she said joy was her favorite emotion.
- [35:23]
A
I don't know if I could talk at that age.
- [35:24]
B
Yeah, it was, it was hard to, to have a full conversation. But yeah, even just that, dude, like kids are so fascinating, you know, that's cool.
- [35:32]
A
You had a blind person on. I've never seen that on a podcast.
- [35:34]
B
Yeah, my cousin. It was. It's coming out this week. It was great, dude. He's. You know, I think there's a stigma with Brian. Blind people. You know, I think a lot of us, at least, I dealt with this. Like, if I saw a blind person in public, I wouldn't approach them because I was like, what's the right way to approach them? Do I touch them and make sure they know I'm there? Like, do I help them cross the street? Do I not help them cross the street? Like, a lot of questions that I think have not been answered. So we got deep into that, and I learned a lot, man.
- [36:01]
A
Like, nice.
- [36:02]
B
Yeah, that's cool.
- [36:03]
A
I had someone with a stutter last week.
- [36:05]
B
Oh, really?
- [36:05]
A
Yeah. I think that might be the first show where someone's, like, that huge star. It was really brave of him to come on.
- [36:13]
B
Wow.
- [36:13]
A
Yeah.
- [36:13]
B
Was it. Is it going to be. I'm so sorry. I feel like a piece of shit for making a joke. But, like, is it going to be annoying for the listeners? Because they're like, it was tough for.
- [36:21]
A
Me, so probably, yeah. Might be tough for the listeners, but I think, nevertheless, it was an important episode for sure, because he stepped up.
- [36:28]
B
Yeah.
- [36:28]
A
I think people with that condition. He was staying on the show. He didn't talk for, like, 10 years. Wow. He was so ashamed of it. So there's probably other people listening to that that will get inspired to speak up. And now he's making eight figures a year doing a sales job with a stutter. Crazy nuts, right?
- [36:43]
B
Yeah.
- [36:43]
A
Put yourself in uncomfortable situations. I'm a huge introvert. I have autism. Like, I shouldn't even be podcasting. Like, you know what I mean? But this has been the most growth I've had in my life. Doing podcasts, learning from people.
- [36:54]
B
I'm the same way, dude. I'm an introvert, too. Like, for sure. And I think it's Isaiah 14:36 and the Bible says that God will lead. Something about God will leading lead the blind. But I think that applies to every disease or physical ailment. Like, if you have stutters, like, I know a girl that she couldn't stop sneezing. Like, she was sneezing, like, 12,000 times a day.
- [37:17]
A
Whoa.
- [37:18]
B
A crazy medical condition. But I think God makes these things happen for a reason. It's either to teach somebody else a lesson or, you know, he's giving you a certain gift. Right. Like, this guy with the stuttering issue. Perhaps he's going to inspire millions and millions of other people with the same condition. And, you know, something powerful could happen with that. Like, you never know.
- [37:38]
A
That's crazy when you zoom out like that. Yeah. Because you. You put it on the individual, but you're thinking big picture. I love the way you think.
- [37:44]
B
Thank you.
- [37:44]
A
Yeah, that's impressive.
- [37:46]
B
Thank you, bro.
- [37:46]
A
But, yeah, he will inspire, whether it's millions or maybe thousands of people. For sure.
- [37:51]
B
Yeah.
- [37:52]
A
From that episode 100. That's awesome. Well, dude, what's. What's next for you? Where can people find you? Keep up with you in the podcast and everything.
- [37:58]
B
Yeah. Division is the podcast once a week. The George Janko show, obviously, is. Is building super fast, and we're very excited and bullish on what George is up to. But, yeah, man, just, you know, continuing to build the show, both shows, and build Division Media, the. The media company. And I'm spending a lot of time with family. I'm in the gym. I'm boxing. I'm just gonna box someone just for fun. You know, I actually called out. People were hitting me up like, yo, why don't you call out Logan, Paul's manager? Like, battle of the manager.
- [38:29]
A
Jeff.
- [38:30]
B
Yeah, Jeff Levin. Shout out Jeff. I saw him at the half marathon yesterday that we ran. So if I was gonna box anybody, I would want to box manager.
- [38:37]
A
That'd be a good one.
- [38:38]
B
Yes.
- [38:38]
A
They got beef, right?
- [38:39]
B
There's no beef.
- [38:40]
A
Oh, they settled it.
- [38:41]
B
It's all good. Yeah, yeah. You know, they. Yeah, everything happens for a reason.
- [38:44]
A
Nice. I love that. Well, we'll link everything below. Thanks for coming on, man.
- [38:46]
B
Thank you, brother.
- [38:47]
A
Appreciate it. Watching, guys, check out the links below. See you next time.
- [38:50]
B
Bye.