The Rise & Fall of Cable TV – What’s Next for Media? | Larry Namer DSH #1224

Summary

Digital Social Hour - Episode #1224: The Rise & Fall of Cable TV – What’s Next for Media? with Larry Namer

Release Date: March 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an insightful conversation with media mogul Larry Namer. The discussion delves into the tumultuous journey of cable TV, the transformative impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on the entertainment industry, and the future trajectories of global media. Larry shares his extensive experience, from overcoming age discrimination in Hollywood to pioneering media ventures in China, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the evolving landscape of storytelling.

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Age Discrimination in Hollywood and the Power of AI

Larry begins by addressing a pervasive issue in Hollywood: age discrimination, particularly against writers over 50 who find it increasingly difficult to secure work. He shares his proactive approach to this problem:

"Writers over 50 in Hollywood don't get work. They're heavily discriminated against. [00:00]"

In response, Larry trained ten seasoned writers in AI prompt techniques. This strategic move not only empowered these writers with modern tools but also positioned them advantageously once industry regulations surrounding AI usage were established post-strikes. As a result, these experienced writers found themselves in higher demand than ever before:

"So all of a sudden, the writers over 50 were the only ones who really knew how to use all the AI tools and stuff, and they found themselves working more than ever. [00:27]"

Larry emphasizes that despite technological advancements, the essence of the industry remains storytelling:

"At the end of the day, it's still storytelling. You have to be a storyteller. [00:30]"

This perspective underscores the enduring value of human creativity, even as AI becomes an integral part of content creation.

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Larry Namer’s New Book: A Blend of Biography and Culinary Art

When prompted about his latest literary endeavor, Larry reveals the unique nature of his book—a harmonious blend of autobiography and cookbook:

"It's a combination of a bio and a cookbook. So it's the recipes that inspired me in different phases of my life and then anecdotes of things that happened in my life then. [01:16]"

He candidly discusses his initial reluctance to author a book, fearing it would be his "last chapter." However, his passion for food—a central theme throughout his life—eventually inspired him to merge his personal journey with culinary delights, creating a resourceful guide for entrepreneurs intertwined with heartfelt stories.

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From Cable Technician to Media Pioneer

Larry recounts his unintentional foray into the media industry, starting with a temporary job in a nascent cable company:

"I couldn't get a job in New York, so I ended up getting a temporary job in a cable company when nobody really knew what cable was. [02:22]"

His hands-on experience laying cables in New York evolved into a significant role in Los Angeles, where he contributed to building the first 61-channel cable system. Despite initial financial challenges—raising only $2.5 million against the typical $100 million startup cost for a TV network—Larry and his partner Alan launched E!, which has since expanded to 142 countries with just 11 employees and 31 interns at inception.

"We actually found someone who was willing to put in two and a half million dollars. And people look at E now and it's a Monster. It's in 142 countries and he started with 11 employees and 31 interns. [03:55]"

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Adaptation to Changing Media Consumption

Addressing the decline in traditional television viewership, Larry presents a forward-thinking view that reframes the narrative:

"To me, it's all the same. It's storytelling on a screen. So if you want to watch my stuff on a TV set, great. If you want to watch it on your iPhone, that's cool too, right? [04:21]"

He argues that the essence of visual entertainment remains unchanged, and the medium—be it TV, smartphones, or other devices—is merely a conduit for storytelling. This adaptability is crucial as audiences migrate to diverse platforms.

Larry further elaborates on the predictability of linear television's decline, juxtaposing it with the flexibility and autonomy offered by on-demand viewing:

"Do you want to watch what NBC wants you to watch when they want you to watch it, or do you want to watch what you want to watch on the device you want to watch it? [04:49]"

This shift underscores the necessity for content creators to meet audiences where they are, catering to their preferred devices and consumption habits.

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Embracing AI in Media Production

AI's role in transforming media production is a recurring theme. Larry highlights how AI has expedited processes that once consumed significant time:

"If somebody would ask me to do a kind of a summary of a new TV series, it used to take me five days to do the research, write it up, whatever. Now, I mean, GBT4 a lot. Takes me 30 seconds. [07:00]"

He acknowledges the dual nature of AI's influence—while it can render certain jobs obsolete, it simultaneously creates new opportunities. His initiative to train older writers in AI exemplifies leveraging technology to empower rather than replace human talent.

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International Expansion: A Deep Dive into the Chinese Market

Larry's strategic expansion into international markets, particularly China, showcases his innovative approach to media globalization. His ventures in China encompass a wide array of content, including TV shows, films, immersive experiences like "Van Gogh and Klimt" exhibits, and even adaptations of American content tailored to Chinese audiences.

"We redid it. Spoiled rich girls in Shanghai. But what we were able to do there, one of the girls wears great shoes. So we go, oh, those are great shoes. Where'd you get them? [25:31]"

This localization strategy not only caters to cultural nuances but also integrates commerce seamlessly into content, as demonstrated by the successful shoe subscription model linked to their "Gossip Girl" adaptation.

Larry underscores the importance of understanding local markets, emphasizing that:

"But you have to be born in mainland China, you had to want to return to China. So we give them intern jobs, then we give them regular jobs, but then they had to go back to China. [28:10]"

His bilingual and bicultural team bridges Western and Chinese media practices, fostering content that resonates with Chinese audiences while maintaining global appeal.

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Emerging Trends in Media: Holograms, Live Streaming, and Short-form Storytelling

The conversation transitions to emerging media trends shaping the future of storytelling. Larry expresses enthusiasm for holographic technology, particularly in the realm of education:

"I think it's a huge opportunity for education to be able to take the best teacher of whatever subject in the world and beam them all over the world and combine it with AI so they can speak any language. [09:04]"

He also addresses the shift towards short-form content, aligning with the decreasing attention spans of modern audiences:

"We own in China. We've been doing movies that we break up into, you know, 90-minute movie. We break into 45 different two-minute segments. [11:32]"

By segmenting stories into bite-sized pieces, Larry's team effectively captures and retains viewer interest, catering to platforms like TikTok and other short-form video services.

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The Resilience of Traditional Storytelling

Despite the influx of new technologies and platforms, Larry maintains that compelling storytelling remains paramount. He critiques superficial innovations that lack substantive narratives, advocating for depth and authenticity:

"If you're in the storytelling business and you pay attention to where the world is going and get your ego out of the way. I don't think of myself as a filmmaker or a TV guy. I'm a storyteller. [11:13]"

He cites examples like "Squid Game" and "Wednesday" to illustrate how strong narratives can achieve global success, transcending cultural and linguistic barriers.

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The Ascendancy of Podcasts and Niche Audiences

Transitioning to the realm of podcasting, Larry praises the medium for its ability to reach highly targeted audiences without the constraints of traditional gatekeepers. He underscores the economic viability of niche content:

"With podcasts, you don't need huge numbers, so you could really focus on things that people are passionate about and really be authentic and true to that. [32:16]"

Larry envisions podcasts as platforms for addressing sensitive and underserved topics, such as military suicide, which mainstream media often overlooks due to advertiser sensitivities. This open space allows for honest and impactful conversations that resonate deeply with specific listener groups.

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Future Ventures: Talk Shows and Women’s Empowerment

Looking ahead, Larry reveals plans to launch a new talk show featuring Natasha, focusing on motivation and inspiration rather than conventional promotional content:

"It's very Natasha. It's more about motivation, inspiration and stuff. She's not doing the tell me about your next movie stuff. [20:34]"

Additionally, he discusses his podcast dedicated to women's empowerment, highlighting the unique camaraderie and diverse perspectives across different generations of women. This initiative aims to foster meaningful dialogues and support networks among female listeners.

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Navigating Content Monetization and Market Dynamics

Larry provides an intriguing case study of monetizing television content in China through integrated commerce. By embedding product placements and leveraging live shopping trends, his team successfully generated revenue beyond traditional advertising:

"We actually made more money selling shoes than we made on selling the TV show. [27:12]"

This model exemplifies the potential of blending content with commerce, creating symbiotic relationships that benefit both producers and consumers.

He also contrasts differing business models between streaming giants like Netflix and Amazon, explaining how each platform gauges success and strategizes content offerings based on their unique metrics and goals.

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Conclusion

Larry Namer's journey through the evolving media landscape offers invaluable lessons on adaptability, innovation, and the enduring power of storytelling. From combating age discrimination in Hollywood with AI to pioneering media ventures in China and harnessing the potential of podcasts, Larry exemplifies a visionary approach to modern entertainment. His insights provide a roadmap for navigating the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead in the dynamic world of media.

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Notable Quotes

1. On Age Discrimination and AI Empowerment:

   "Writers over 50 in Hollywood don't get work. They're heavily discriminated against. [00:00]"

   "At the end of the day, it's still storytelling. You have to be a storyteller. [00:30]"

2. On Media Adaptation:

   "Do you want to watch what NBC wants you to watch when they want you to watch it, or do you want to watch what you want to watch on the device you want to watch it? [04:49]"

3. On AI’s Role in Production:

   "If somebody would ask me to do a kind of a summary of a new TV series, it used to take me five days... Now, GBT4 a lot. Takes me 30 seconds. [07:00]"

4. On Storytelling Across Platforms:

   "I'm not a filmmaker or a TV guy. I'm a storyteller. [11:13]"

5. On Podcasting’s Potential:

   "With podcasts, you don't need huge numbers... and be authentic and true to that. [32:16]"

6. On Monetizing Content in China:

   "We actually made more money selling shoes than we made on selling the TV show. [27:12]"

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Stay Connected with Larry Namer

To explore Larry Namer’s ventures, delve into his book Off Script available on Amazon, or follow his endeavors through his Facebook food blog and the official LJN Media channels. For direct inquiries, Larry encourages reaching out via his email, which he diligently responds to daily.

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Thank you for tuning into this episode of Digital Social Hour. Stay inspired and keep engaging with the stories that shape our world.

Transcript

[Larry]

Writers over 50 in Hollywood don't get work. They're heavily discriminated against.

[Unknown]

Really.

[Larry]

But I took 10 writers and trained them in how you prompt. So when the strikes finally got settled, everybody was like, now, okay, there are rules for how you employ AI related. So all of a sudden, the writers over 50 were the only ones who really knew how to use all the AI tools and stuff, and they found themselves working more than ever.

[Unknown]

Nice. Yeah. Because AI can probably come up with some crazy scripts.

[Larry]

Yeah. At the end of the day, it's still storytelling. You have to be a storyteller. I mean, I don't care what platform you're producing for, you're telling a story. And these guys were fabulous. It's just they were, you know, they. Oscars and Emmys and Golden Globes and stuff, but yet once you hit 30, 50 years old in Hollywood, they kind of put you out the pasture. But now they're bringing them back because they know how to use the tools now available.

[Unknown]

Yeah. All right, guys, got a legend here today. We got Larry and just dropped a new book, right?

[Larry]

Yeah. I finally. After people bugging me to write it for a long time, I finally did it. And it literally just came out on Amazon last week.

[Unknown]

I love it. And what was the core messaging of the book?

[Larry]

Well, it's kind of unusual because people have been asking me to do the book and I've always refused because I said I'm not ready to write a last chapter yet. But I've been a foodie literally all my life, so if I didn't do television and stuff, I would probably be a cook in a restaurant. So it's. It's a combination of a bio and a. And a cookbook. So it's the recipes that inspired me in different phases of my life and then anecdotes of things that happened in my life then. But it's a good book for entrepreneurs.

[Unknown]

I love it.

[Larry]

It's kind of. You know, I was in school, I was the boy least likely, so.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. You got voted that? Oh, God, yeah, I got voted that too. Most likely a fail.

[Larry]

I would. I was definitely that.

[Unknown]

And were you really shy, introverted?

[Larry]

Yeah, I played sports, but yeah, I mean, pretty much.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

Very shy, introverted and stuff. The family were immigrants and, you know, they. They kind of kept a close reign on the kids and stuff, so. So which just in growing up, which.

[Unknown]

Is ironic because you ended up making a living in the entertainment industry.

[Larry]

Yeah. And people ask, they say, was that something designed and. No, it wasn't. It was just. I. I couldn't get a job in New York, so I ended up getting a. A temporary job in a cable company when nobody really knew what cable was. And it was kind of odd because I was working under the streets of New York, putting the wires together, and I just kind of grew up in the cable business. And then I came out to LA to build the first 61 channel cable system ever built. And the company that I worked for moved back to Toronto. And, you know, you're a Brooklyn kid, you hear, you're in la, everybody's going to parties and premieres and all of this stuff. So me and my friend Alan came up with an idea for a TV network called Me, you know, and the rest is history.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Reminds me of just timing, right? Because, like, you didn't really have direction, but you were just right place, right time.

[Larry]

Yeah, well, right place, the right time. And it was kind of interesting because when Alan and I started the company, the going rate to start a TV network was somewhere around $100 million.

[Unknown]

Holy crap.

[Larry]

Yeah. TV networks were expensive, and after three and a half years and nobody giving us any money, we realized that we might have to settle for less. So we actually found someone who was willing to put in two and a half million dollars. And people look at E now and it's a Monster. It's in 142 countries and. But he started with 11 employees and 31 interns.

[Unknown]

Humble beginnings. You've seen the decline in television numbers, right?

[Larry]

Yeah, but not. Not in viewing visual entertainment. I mean, I'm not one that says that you got to watch television, but it's. To me, it's all the same. It's storytelling on a screen. So if you want to watch my stuff on a TV set, great. If you want to watch it on your iPhone, that's cool too, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's a good point, because people aren't not watching stuff, they're just transitioning to other platforms.

[Larry]

I mean, for me, it's always been simple, and people used to hate when I say that, but you kind of could predict the fall of linear television. I mean, it's real simple. Do you want to watch what NBC wants you to watch when they want you to watch it, or do you want to watch what you want to watch on the device you want to watch it? We all know the answer. Other than sports and news, nothing has to be time anchored.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Did streaming disrupt your industry a lot? When Netflix started gaining some traction, it.

[Larry]

Disrupted, like, the broadcast for folks, but for me, as a producer, No, I mean, the demand for storytellers was great. And then I had international experience. A lot of it. I mean, like I say, he's in 142 countries.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

We. We really focused on building out, you know, the international markets. And so we. We found ourselves in incredible demand.

[Unknown]

Yeah. The international markets. I just had Chef Rush on. He's like a big chef. I don't know if you heard of him.

[Larry]

I've heard of name.

[Unknown]

Yeah. But he crushes it in Korea. Like, he's got the top shows there. So it's just fascinating that a lot of people focus on US Markets, but you could really dominate in other countries.

[Larry]

Yeah. And it's. Yeah, it's one of the reasons why E grew as big as. As it did as quickly as it did was when I first got involved in the. In the business, and if I would do a business plan and you get the financials, I would weigh them 95% U.S. and 5% other. I mean, because that's kind of where it was then. 95% of all the revenue from media.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

Was coming out of the U.S. now if I do a business plan, it's 30% U.S. oh, wow. And then there's China and there's Russia, and then there's Brazil, and, you know, literally all the countries have names now. Because what's really happened is technology has changed the business so much. It used to be you used to. Had to go to Hollywood to make visual entertainment because you needed big sound stages and equipment was really expensive. Now I could go to Nigeria tomorrow with my iPhone and make a movie. Um, so you really began to find visual entertainment hasn't declined. But the. For the ability for it to be local to the communities that it. That it appears to is. Is really bigger than ever. Actually.

[Unknown]

No, it is. I mean, Beast Games just broke record numbers.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Highest cash prize giveaway and highest viewership, I believe.

[Larry]

Yeah. You know, and technology changes. I mean, we've been great proponents of AI from the very beginning of. Of stuff. I use literally AI all the time.

[Unknown]

Really?

[Larry]

Oh, yeah. Since. Since even before GPT.

[Unknown]

No way.

[Larry]

And stuff. Of course, it saves you so much time. I mean, we all are here on this planet with a limited amount of time. So the most valuable asset thing we have is time, and I don't like to waste mine. If somebody would ask me to do a kind of a summary of a new TV series, it used to take me five days to do the research, write it up, whatever. Now, I mean, GBT4 a lot.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

Takes me 30 seconds.

[Unknown]

Damn.

[Larry]

I edit it for an hour take. You got to clean it up. It's never perfect. So now in one hour, I'm getting done what I used to get done in five days.

[Unknown]

That's how.

[Larry]

Not love it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. No, when you break it down like that, that's incredible. Yeah, I think. Yeah. It gets a lot of hate, especially in the entertainment industry, because people are fearful that it will take jobs away.

[Larry]

Yeah. Well, it takes jobs away and one end and it creates jobs on another. There's a lot I did a lot of work with when the strikes were on, the writers Guild and SAG. So I work with writers in. Writers over 50 in Hollywood don't get work. They're heavily discriminated against.

[Unknown]

Really.

[Larry]

But I took 10 writers and trained them in how you prompt. So when the strikes finally got settled, everybody was like, now, okay, there are rules for how you, you know, employ AI related. So all of a sudden, the writers over 50 were the only ones who really knew how to use all the AI tools and stuff, and they found themselves working more than ever.

[Unknown]

Nice. Yeah. Because AI can probably come up with some crazy scripts.

[Larry]

Yeah. At the end of the day, it's still storytelling. You have to be a storyteller. I mean, I don't care what platform you're producing for, you're telling a story. And these guys were fabulous. It's just, they were, you know, they. Oscars and Emmys and Golden Globes and stuff, but yet once you hit 30, 50 years old in Hollywood, they kind of put you out the pasture. But now they're bringing them back because they know how to use the. The tools that are now available.

[Unknown]

Yeah. What are the next trends you're seeing coming up out of Hollywood? Do you think the live streaming thing is going to last?

[Larry]

Yeah, I. I think live streaming is good. I think, you know, the international markets still have a lot of room to grow. I mean, everything. You know, Netflix is now doing local stuff all over the world and showing that the economics works. So you're now seeing the other guys follow. I'm a big believer in AI being able to bring the prices down so that more talented people can get involved because the entry points are much cheaper to get. And I'm also a big fan of holograms. Holograms? Yeah. Using. Using holograms. Maybe not so much for entertainment, although there's some great applications in entertainment. But I think it's a huge opportunity for education to be able to take the best teacher of whatever subject in the world and beam them all over the world and combine it with AI so they can speak any language and kind of levels the field of playing, of education all over.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's cool. I didn't even think about it that way. I've heard about potentially AI actors in the future. Have you seen that?

[Larry]

Yeah, yeah. People talk about AI being new and so we've been using this kind of stuff for years. Maybe not calling it generative AI, but you know, backgrounds and stuff. I mean, we've been using digital technology for a long time. So for me it's not really a big change. You know, the problem that everybody goes through, they think that, you know, you're gonna take people's likeness and put them in other movies and stuff. And that's not gonna happen because there's a body of law that prevents it from happening.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

And you know, just like in anything, if there are consequences for doing bad things, people tend not to do it. And then there's a way to fix it if somebody does do it. So, you know, you can't take a. Shoot a movie with Tom Cruise and then put them in a porn movie next. I mean, there's, there's laws and contracts and stuff. There's a body of work there that protects that kind of stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Have you seen the human attention span is dropping.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Shorter than a goldfish now.

[Larry]

Yeah. Yeah. But if you're, if you're in the storytelling business and you pay attention to where the world is going and get your ego out of the way. I mean, I don't think of myself as a filmmaker or a TV guy. I'm a storyteller. And if you want stories in 15 second chunks, I'll, I'll do those.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

I mean, I'm doing a lot of stuff. I do a lot of stuff out of the country. I do a lot of stuff in China. And we've been doing movies that we break up into, you know, 90 minute movie. We break into 45 different two minute segments.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow.

[Larry]

And it's interesting because we give you the first 10 segments for free, but then you're hooked on the movie. So then you pay like the equivalent of a dollar for that next 35 interesting stuff. So the economics are really good, but how you tell those stories is interesting. We employ people who are very good at writing soap operas because soap operas are actually written in two minute story arcs. So it lends itself to that. You're going to see it huge here. You've got new companies here called Real Shorts and stuff like that. They're already doing It. Yeah, it'll get. John.

[Unknown]

Most of my views are from shorts. Yeah. One minute videos.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I get way more there than my full episodes.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's just a new era. Right.

[Larry]

You know, however people want to consume it, you know, I don't care.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

Make a difference to me.

[Unknown]

What made you want to focus on China? That's an interesting approach.

[Larry]

I. Well, I still at the. I started doing a lot of stuff in Russia and, you know, for me it was. I was cracking up, going, I'm in Russia doing tv, which is weird, but I ended up starting a concert series that we raised money for the children's hospital in the orphanage in St. Petersburg. And I would work with the vice mayor of St. Petersburg on putting these concerts together. And the vice mayor is a guy named Vladimir Putin. And, you know, so when Putin kind of went up the ladder and ended up in the Kremlin, he asked me to work with his minister of communications to rewrite regulatory policy for media, saying Western marketers are going to come in here and they're going to want stuff that looks a little bit familiar. So I work with the Russians on that. And some years later, the Chinese realized that they needed to do media reform too. They liked the Russian model. They went to the Russians, the Russians sent them to me. So I started helping them with media reform. Then they asked me to work with young TV executives. I'll put quotes around this, teaching them the process of creativity for profitability. Because when you worked in the 100% communist system, if you knew the right guy in the party, you just did whatever you want. So I started doing stuff there and we have a pretty robust company there in China now. We do tv, film, Internet content. We do a lot of immersive stuff in China, which is great because we get to try stuff in China that we then could apply to U.S. markets. Um, like we own in China. We've been doing, excuse me, immersive Van Gogh and Klimt and 100 Years of Disney animation.

[Unknown]

That's cool.

[Larry]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think that could be the future. Immersive content, like virtual reality.

[Larry]

Yeah, it's a. It's all. It started in this country. It really started. Took off with Van Gogh and stuff, which was so, you know, it's only four years ago, but it's so outdated.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

The technology is shot by it now. When you combine it with. With. With live experiences with AI, it's gotten real sophisticated. We. We just actually bought for China. We're doing Shrek the Musical now. And so we do the Harlem Globetrotters there. We do quite a lot there.

[Unknown]

Oh, that's cool. I didn't know Shrek was big out in China.

[Larry]

Yeah, I. Well, a lot of American media, it's very weird. It's a very strange market. People don't realize there are actually more people in China who speak English than speak English in the U.S. wow. Because when they started, when they won the Olympics for 08, they went on this real tear for, like, 10 years of teaching, making it mandatory in school. So now you have 400 million English speakers in China, which is more than the population in the U.S. that's impressive.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's interesting to see, like, what trends stick and what don't. I remember when 3D came out, people were excited. That kind of flopped. Same with 4D, right?

[Larry]

Yeah. Well, people get. They get enamored with technology and they overdo it. Yeah, there's a place for that sometimes. But, you know, for the most part, it really falls back to storytelling. Is the story going to hold people's interest? Over time, you could dazzle them with special effects to a degree, but it wears off.

[Unknown]

You still need good content at the end of the day.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That's why Squid Game just crushes it, man. I love the storytelling is like, I don't even know what's gonna happen next season.

[Larry]

No. Squid Games is. Is one of my favorites and stuff. And you just look at. I mean, some of the stuff that's popped up there. Yeah, I loved Wednesday.

[Unknown]

That's a good one, too.

[Larry]

Yeah. There's just so much good stuff out there.

[Unknown]

Who's your favorite storyteller director of all time?

[Larry]

Probably Spielberg.

[Unknown]

Nice.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's hard to beat him, right?

[Larry]

Yeah, it's hard to beat Spielberg.

[Unknown]

I just saw who was on Rogan recently. Tarantino.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That was a great episode.

[Larry]

Stuff is good, but he's. He's missed a few that I didn't really love. But, yeah, mainly Tarantino was great.

[Unknown]

I think when you're doing so many, it's hard to deliver on all of them. Right.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because you're distracted. I mean, how many films has he done at this point? Probably like, 40, 50.

[Larry]

No, he's done actually a lot less.

[Unknown]

Oh, really?

[Larry]

Seems like he's done more, but no. Yeah, it's a lot less. And I think he said that he's done. Oh, he's not doing anymore. Wow.

[Unknown]

Because I just saw Kill Bill for the first time.

[Larry]

Oh, really?

[Unknown]

That was his. That was his third one. Right. So I just assumed by now he'd be at 40 or something?

[Larry]

No, no, no, no. He's down in the low teens, I think.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow. So he's very selective. Yeah, I actually like that though.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Because then you take pride in your work.

[Larry]

Yeah, he's, he's really. I like him. But I think just overall, if I, you know, I look at things like Shin was list and stuff and, you know, I'm just like, you know, you go back to Jaws and stuff. Spielberg was amazing.

[Unknown]

Yeah. What's your favorite era of movies? Do you like the recent stuff or do you like the older stuff?

[Larry]

I. I think I like the recent stuff. Okay. And you know, there's my favorite film actually was something that in the early 80s and Blade, the original Blade Runner.

[Unknown]

I haven't seen the original one. I think I saw the new one.

[Larry]

Yeah, the new one was okay, but the original was just okay.

[Unknown]

I gotta watch that then.

[Larry]

And there's just a lot of good stuff happening. I mean, I find stuff on Tick Tock that I think is. Gives me as much enjoyment as watching a good movie.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm addicted to this one show now. It's called the Traders.

[Larry]

Oh, no, I'm not.

[Unknown]

You haven't heard of that? Oh, man. Did you watch Survivor at all? So it's like Boston Rob and a few other survivors.

[Larry]

Oh, really?

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's reality.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You guys started in reality tv, right?

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That was how you got out there at first.

[Larry]

Yeah, we. We were the ones who started E. Hollywood True Story Wild on E. Howard Stern. Probably when it really started, the whole thing was Talk Soup. Wow. You know, which you go back to those shows and they really are examples of like, necessity is the mother of invention. We had no money, so we had to be really creative and inventive. I mean, Talk Soup was, you know, I had Greg Kinnear and it said, greg, stand in front of the TV screen. We're going to show you clips, make fun of them. And you know, people were looking at going, larry, you want to do a TV show that makes fun of TV shows? I'm like, yeah, exactly. You know, my thing has always been Hollywood is funny stuff. Don't try and make believe it's rocket science. Just have a good time.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, look at the top shows like Tosh Point. Oh, ridiculousness. They're just reacting to videos. Even all the late night talk shows are just reacting to clips.

[Larry]

Yeah, they read. Yeah, that's reaction. I got a late night talk show that I'm going to do. It comes out in June. I just have this thing that post Covid.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

I think the world wants some positive stories to go to bed with. You watch the, the talk shows. Number one there. It's all guys.

[Unknown]

All guys except for Taylor Tomlinson. Yeah.

[Larry]

Which they try to turn. I love Taylor, but they turned her into a guy. It's the same show, you know, sit behind the desk and whatever. And they're all promotional, so it's promotional.

[Unknown]

And they get political.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's kind of weird.

[Larry]

Oh, Tom Cruise. Tell me about your next movie. You know, I'm bored with that. But I found this gal, she's from the uk. Eight years ago, was a single mom, homeless in the uk. You cut to eight years later, she's living in Bel Air. She's life coaching Will. I am. And Steve Aoki. Wow.

[Unknown]

Wait, is that Natasha? Natasha, yeah, she's been on the show.

[Larry]

Oh, okay. Yeah, so I'm doing a talk show with Natasha.

[Unknown]

She's got a great personality.

[Larry]

Yeah, she's one of a kind. Most people don't realize what go into doing the show, work ethic wise. They think just cause their personality is good, they don't get that you're gonna basically dedicate your life to.

[Unknown]

Right. They treat it half ass. Yeah.

[Larry]

Yeah. So yeah, we're doing a. Natasha and I shot a pilot with her and we shot a pilot actually in a. In a nightclub in la. And you know, we had. I had Bach on, you know, it was a big vine star.

[Unknown]

Yeah. King Bach. Yeah.

[Larry]

Gigi, Gorgeous, who's trans and some people from selling Sunset. So play. It's really cool.

[Unknown]

Nice.

[Larry]

And it's more about. It's very Natasha. It's more about motivation, inspiration and stuff. She's not doing the tell me about your next movie stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I hate that stuff, dude. There's no substance.

[Larry]

No. And. And it. Nobody watches it. And they wonder why the ratings and you know, I mean, I. I'm doing a. A podcast show now that's all about women's empowerment.

[Unknown]

Nice.

[Larry]

It's like women of four different generations that they'll talk about a subject and you kind of could hear the difference between what their take is on different subjects. But yet there's this underlying camaraderie and love among women that I don't think guys necessarily share.

[Unknown]

We're not as emotional.

[Larry]

No. And you know, it looks, you know, it looks great. I shoot it like a TV show, shooting it for camera 4K. And actually it's good lighting and good sound and stuff. And when I talk to networks about doing stuff, they go, oh, women under 40 don't watch TV. I'm like, well, did you ever think maybe it's because you don't put anything on that they might want to watch? And they just like, look at me like, you know, like, what's wrong with you?

[Unknown]

Yeah, there's definitely a market, though. I mean, Orange is the new black. Crushed it. That was probably a huge woman audience. I'm trying to. Wednesday was probably mostly woman. Stranger Things had a big woman audience. So there's shows that can cater to. Towards that for sure. Yeah. You must have witnessed a lot of discrimination in your industry, right?

[Larry]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

Especially towards women.

[Larry]

Yeah, especially towards women. So this, this one, it's actually, it's interesting. I've always been fascinated with this thing. You go out to dinner with a few couples and one woman says, I gotta go to the restroom. And they all get up and go. The guys are sitting there going, where are they? What are they doing in there? But it's really, it's a metaphor for that camaraderie among women. So we've got, you know, from a boomer down to a Gen Z soon to have to add an alpha. And it's just interesting to hear the different take they have. And it's getting 80. 80% of the audience is women.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

At least early, early stuff. And, and under 40. Heavy under 40.

[Unknown]

Well, shout out to Nikki Glaser because she's been crushing it. I love with the award shows. She's bringing those back because no one watched those. No. But now she's like roasting everyone and it's hilarious.

[Larry]

Yeah, no, she, I, she's done good. The Brady one was interesting. I would have done Brady. I thought they did it too traditional. I mean, you had Nikki. I mean, you could do so much cool stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah. They had to run by all their jokes beforehand and stuff. But it was at least a start in the right direction.

[Larry]

Yeah, No, I love Nikki Glazier.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I think she just did the Grammy. She just did the NFL honors yesterday. She's been on a tear. Shout out to Nikki.

[Larry]

And then the other one, they, you know, if they, if it wasn't run by all guys in the old traditional ways. I mean, Taylor Tomlinson is if you ever seen a stand up.

[Unknown]

She's brilliant, she's solid.

[Larry]

But they're just like reining her in and letting her be Taylor.

[Unknown]

Times are changing, man. I think the Emmys were last week. Or was it the Grammys? One of those Grammys. And they actually invited a few streamers and the streamers were getting more views on their live twitch stream than their network was crazy, right?

[Larry]

Yeah. You know, it's. The world has changed in the way people. Viewers change. And if you want to be a storyteller, you got to go where the viewers are going on the devices they want to watch stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And the markets, like you're doing, because going international, that's. That's a very unique strategy.

[Larry]

Yeah. In. In China, when we do shows in China, it's like 70% of the people who watch our stuff watch it on a cell phone. So we. We actually shoot it different.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Larry]

Because normally for television, if you're shooting for, like, television, you do your final edit on a 55 inch TV set. We do our final edit on an iPhone.

[Unknown]

And holy crap, that's crazy.

[Larry]

That's the way most people are going to watch it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

So you're doing a lot of, you know, you're not doing a lot of long shots. You're not doing twos and threes. You're doing ones and twos.

[Unknown]

Yeah. TikTok's big over there, right?

[Larry]

Yeah, TikTok is huge there. We do some consulting the bytedance. We kind of help them with. With the whole storytelling.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

Strategy and how you monetize that. I mean, we've been able to monetize stuff there so differently. We actually bought the rights to Gossip Girl.

[Unknown]

Oh, I used to love that show.

[Larry]

So we redid it. Instead of spoiled rich girls in New York, Spoiled rich girls in Shanghai.

[Unknown]

Oh, it's kind of like crazy rich Asians.

[Larry]

That movie crazy rich Asians was really people. I got in trouble for saying that it'll never play well in China because they were going, oh, it's all Asian cast and whatever. First of all, it's Singaporean. There's a huge, like, Asians. There's a huge difference between Singaporeans and native, you know, mainland Chinese people.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

But, you know, we were fascinated with that show because we never saw anything that was an entire Asian cast. So people are saying, oh, it's going to do amazing in China. And I'm like, no, it's not. I said, they watch TV all day long. That's all Asian. All their movies are all Asian. It's not going to be anything new to them. And it flopped terribly.

[Unknown]

Gossip Girl flopped?

[Larry]

No, crazy.

[Unknown]

Oh, it did. Wow.

[Larry]

Gossip Girl, again, the English version did really well because you have so many people that speak English. So we. We redid it. Spoiled rich girls in Shanghai. But what we were able to do there, one of the girls wears great shoes. So we go, oh, those Are great shoes. Where'd you get them? I get them on Sparkle.com episodes later going, another pair of great shoes. So we actually own Sparkle.com and on the production budget, we had a shoe designer. So we actually started shoe at a month club. So if you signed up, we knew your size, We. We knew your address, we had your credit card. So we send you an email going, here's next month's selection. Here's the two alternatives. Which one do you want?

[Unknown]

Brilliant.

[Larry]

We actually made more money selling shoes than we made on selling the TV show.

[Unknown]

That's brilliant. But that's the future, man. I'm seeing these live shopping numbers. I got a couple buddies making tens of millions with live shopping.

[Larry]

You know, if you put it in the right context and stuff and you don't offend people by, like, throwing it in their face. And, you know, and you have experts. Gossip Girl is the number one driver of fashion choices among women under 40 years old in China.

[Unknown]

Holy crap. That's crazy.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So there's a lot of influence in these shows if kind of marketed in the right angle.

[Larry]

Yeah. People don't realize. They don't really dig into stuff. I mean, they have their propaganda, we have our propaganda.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

But I mean, I'll give you another silly statistic, because I love silly. In China, there are more people that are fans of Gossip Girl than there are members of the Communist party.

[Unknown]

Whoa.

[Larry]

Think about that one.

[Unknown]

That's nuts.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. There's a lot of, I guess, narrative around how China and United States have beef.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But you're over there, so you're not really seeing that.

[Larry]

You see it at the government level. Once in a while, it. It does curtail stuff. But no, you know, we. We're. We're pretty non political. Not pretty non. Totally not. We're not there to change their government, to change their life. We're there to make people smile and laugh and.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

Stuff. So they've been very good with us. We've had really no problem.

[Unknown]

That's cool. I'm half Chinese, so that's cool. This cool to hear that, honestly.

[Larry]

Yeah, no, it's. And there's a great difference between people and government.

[Unknown]

Right. You got to separate the two because a lot of people lump them together. Right.

[Larry]

Yeah. And you know our company in China, everybody. Well, I'm by far the oldest. I'm the only non Chinese person in the company there.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Larry]

And we picked the people the way we ended up building the company. And it was a great. It was a good thing we did. We get people out of colleges here. But you had to be born in mainland China, you had to want to return to China. So we give them intern jobs, then we give them regular jobs, but then they had to go back to China. So in our company in China, everybody has been educated in the West. So they're not just. They're bilingual, bicultural, which really helps because they understand, you know, best practices and stuff. So we've, we've been really successful there with, with a lot of shows.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's smart. Do you speak Mandarin now?

[Larry]

I try. It's.

[Unknown]

It's hard.

[Larry]

Brooklyn accent. It's like not. It's not a pretty language.

[Unknown]

It's one of the toughest languages, apparently.

[Larry]

So hard because when I was in Russia, I learned to speak Russian because it kind of follows the rules of like Latin.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

So there's like letters make words, words make sentences, sentences make paragraphs. In China, it's symbols. And you know, in simple Mandarin, in simple, it's. There's 4,000 symbols. So, you know, once you're past like five years old, you're not learning symbols.

[Unknown]

Plus the words can have different meanings.

[Larry]

And then you have the tones, though. We always think Chinese sounds funny because it's very tonal. It's almost like singing. There are four tones for every symbol. So that's 16,000, 4,000 times four and stuff. And no, I get it wrong a lot.

[Unknown]

What keeps you going, man? Because you could have retired a long ass time ago.

[Larry]

Yeah, but you know, I. People say that I go, but like, what would I do? I wake up every morning with 10 new ideas. I'm pretty good at self assessing. By the time I go to sleep, I realize that probably all 10 were dopey. Every once in a while I'll have a good one.

[Unknown]

So you're like the visionary of the company.

[Larry]

Yeah, I like digging in though. I like, you know, doing stuff. But I'm smart enough to let the people that are going to be closer to the audience have a big say. I mean like in the podcast, I totally, I'm hands off. I have. It's 100% women who work there and they run the whole thing. As I, I say what my role is these days now it's like I'm a bodyguard. Like I'll let them shoot themselves in the foot, but if they're going to shoot themselves in the head, I'll step in.

[Unknown]

Got it. More like an advisory position these days. Yeah, that makes sense. Are you optimistic about podcasts? The podcast space?

[Larry]

Yeah, I love the podcast space. Because it really does. It lets you hone in on, like, niche audiences, but at a much smaller level. I mean, even, you know, you had broadcast there and you needed millions of people to make economic sense, and cable was a few hundred thousand. Now, with podcasts, you don't need huge numbers, so you could really focus on things that people are passionate about and really be authentic and true to that. And I use the term super serve so that whatever the, you know, the love is or the passion is, you could really serve them. I mean, like, when we're doing Stall Talk, people are going, can't believe we're finally seeing that. And the reason you're seeing it is because it's very inexpensive to put a podcast up.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's only a few thousand. You know, you can start on iPhones. That's how I started. Used iPhones, refurbished iPhones.

[Larry]

We're down. We're down in the low thousands and stuff. And you could just say, you know what? This thing may only appeal to 10,000 people, but the numbers still work, which is fine.

[Unknown]

I know shows that only get a couple hundred views, but they're making a living because it's such a targeted niche that a couple hundred views can make six figures.

[Larry]

Absolutely.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So I think people need to stop obsessing over the numbers.

[Larry]

Yeah. No, and I love it, because there's no gatekeepers. I mean, for me, it's always been weird because people. Well, up until fairly recently, people go, like, what's wrong with that guy? He must be on drugs now. I've kind of moved to the point where I'm a visionary. I'm still the same person and stuff, but there's no gatekeepers here, So I could do whatever I want. I don't have to ask anybody for permission.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

And if it works, Great. And if it doesn't work, you didn't lose a lot.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Because you dealt with gatekeepers your whole life in the entertainment industry.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I hear about these nightmare stories. Right.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You got to give me this amount of money or you got to do me this favor.

[Larry]

Oh, yeah. I mean, now I'm looking at doing something. Some folks from the armed forces have asked me to create something for military suicide. Wow. For the people that are involved with people that have committed suicide or contemplating it. And, you know, all the mental health issues are. Are just amazing. And they won't tackle them because advertisers don't want to be next to them on. On broadcast television.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

But on a podcast, you could do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And I know certain Topics. If you try to pitch them in networks, they'll deny you.

[Larry]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, yeah.

[Larry]

They don't want to do it because. Because they, they need a certain number of viewers in order to justify the production cost.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

And then they got to get sponsors.

[Unknown]

So.

[Larry]

So if they don't think the sponsors are going to be happy rubbing up next to whatever the subject matter is. I mean, military suicide is not a happy subject.

[Unknown]

Yeah, not at all. And Big Pharma would drop out of that. They wouldn't sponsor that.

[Larry]

So. But, you know, do it as a podcast you can make or at the end of the day, things have to be financially sustainable.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

Because we all have to eat and pay the rent and, and do that. And if we can't sustain it economically, eventually we can't continue to do it.

[Unknown]

I saw Netflix allegedly made a billion off Squid Game. Did you see that?

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That's crazy.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

How does that work? Because it gets a ton of views, but there's no ads if you have the Netflix, like premium.

[Larry]

Yeah, but it's been so well that if you just look at the way their subscriber level jumped. So in those kind of services you got two things. It's how many new subscribers.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Larry]

And then you also measure your drop off. You say, okay, there's a normal drop off of X percent and stuff. And if you could impact, it's really cheap to save someone. It's much cheaper than having to find a new subscriber.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Larry]

And stuff. So they love it. Squid Game. I mean, when you started Squid Games, you could never think of like dropping Netflix.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Beast Games was brilliant too, because I heard they lost money on the front end. But because people are becoming Amazon prime customers and they're buying stuff, they're going to make all of that back.

[Larry]

Yeah. It's interesting the way that Netflix evaluates or finds the value in something is different than Amazon.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Larry]

I mean, Netflix really is more of a traditional, you know, is the audience and stuff. Amazon is. Is that the show going to drive people to stick with Amazon as a buying service and stuff? So their measurement is different.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And you were saying how you're incorporating shopping now too, so that might be where future shows go towards.

[Larry]

Right, Absolutely. You know, and again, if you don't stick it in people's face and it's relevant to what the content was, it works. People are not offended by it. They welcome it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, I could see it. So many people dressed up as like Squid Game for Halloween and stuff. Bought merch.

[Larry]

Yeah. I got a squid game costume.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, you do. I love it, man.

[Larry]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a fun thing to be Larry.

[Unknown]

It's been really cool getting to know your world, man. Where can people find your book and keep up with you?

[Larry]

The book's on Amazon. It's called off script. And you can always find. I actually. I answer all my own email. I actually do my Facebook page as a food blog, but LJN at LJN Media, I have this thing that I never go to sleep without answering all my email.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Larry]

But if you call me on the cell phone, it may take days for me to call you back.

[Unknown]

Old school. Good old email, man.

[Larry]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

All right, we'll link your email below if anyone has any questions. Is that cool?

[Larry]

Yeah, no, it's great.

[Unknown]

Awesome. Thanks for watching, guys. Check out his stuff and I'll see you next time.

[C]

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