The Truth About Making it as a Pro Gamer in 2024 | 5up DSH #938

Summary

Digital Social Hour: The Truth About Making it as a Pro Gamer in 2024 | 5up DSH #938

Release Date: December 1, 2024

In this engaging episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly delves deep into the world of professional gaming with his guest, a prominent figure in the pro-gaming community. The conversation spans from the evolution of gaming careers to the intricate impacts of AI on creative industries. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the essence of their discussion.

---

1. Navigating the Stigma and Feasibility of a Gaming Career

Guest:
At the outset, the guest addresses the lingering stigma attached to pursuing a career in gaming, highlighting how perceptions have shifted over time but still pose challenges.

• Quote [00:01]:
  "There was a big stigma before, right? Oh, I want to be a gamer. I want to be a YouTuber."

• Discussion:
  Both speakers agree that while there’s growing acceptance, becoming a professional gamer or content creator is far from feasible for the majority. They touch upon parental concerns and the unpredictability of success in this field.

• Quote [18:54]:
  "Absolutely not. It's not high."

---

2. Early Gaming Journey and League of Legends

Guest:
The guest shares his early foray into gaming, with League of Legends being a pivotal game that ignited his passion and opened doors within the gaming community.

• Quote [00:36]:
  "I've been playing games, at least in the scene for, like, seven years now."

• Insight:
  Achieving the Challenger rank in League of Legends was a significant milestone that helped him build essential connections, even though he clarifies he wasn’t playing professionally.

---

3. Among Us: The Game Changer

Guest:
Transitioning to Among Us, the guest elaborates on how this game served as a major catalyst for his streaming career, especially during its surge in popularity.

• Quote [01:10]:
  "What started me online was, like, Among Us, I guess that was the really big kickstarter into everything."

• Notable Interactions:
  He reminisces about playing with Toast, a well-known streamer, and discusses his continued enthusiasm for deception games.

• Quote [02:14]:
  "I think all around, I'm the best."

---

4. Streaming Success and Business Acumen

Guest:
The conversation shifts to his streaming success on platforms like Twitch, where he boasts nearly a million followers, and his approach to managing a successful streaming career.

• Quote [07:20]:
  "Yeah, really, really close. I think like 70k off."

• Business Insights:
  Influenced by his mother’s experience running a graphic design business, he is largely self-taught in business management, enabling him to navigate the complexities of streaming and monetization effectively.

• Quote [13:08]:
  "My mom runs her own graphic design business. So just kind of self-taught from like specialists I guess."

---

5. The Impact of AI on Creative Industries

Guest:
A significant portion of the discussion centers around the rise of AI and its implications, particularly in the graphic design sector. He expresses skepticism about AI’s ability to replicate genuine artistic nuance.

• Quote [13:44]:
  "A lot of them soul is like we're cutting corners, saving money and then a lot of their product just looks kind of mediocre bad."

• Perspective on AI:
  While acknowledging AI's utility, he voices concerns over its potential to homogenize creative outputs and displace talented artists, emphasizing the irreplaceable value of human originality.

---

6. Personal Skills and Hobbies Beyond Gaming

Guest:
Beyond gaming, the guest reveals his background in martial arts, achieving a red belt, and his forays into poker and cooking.

• Martial Arts:
  He shares his journey in martial arts, opting out before reaching black belt due to a lack of interest in competitive fighting.

  • Quote [05:08]:
    "I was one step below black belt brown."

• Poker and Chess:
  His strategic mindset translates into poker, where he actively participates in tournaments, and chess, where he achieved commendable results despite not being highly ranked.

  • Quote [11:29]:
    "I think my peak was 1400."

---

7. Reflections on Early Online Gaming and Scamming

Guest:
Delving into his early online gaming experiences, the guest recounts involvement in scamming within Runescape, utilizing game glitches and persuasive tactics to deceive other players.

• Quote [22:55]:
  "I was a big scammer in Runescape."

• Ethical Considerations:
  This segment highlights the darker side of online gaming communities and the ethical dilemmas players face, especially in unregulated environments.

---

8. Future Endeavors and Closing Thoughts

Guest:
Looking ahead, the guest plans to explore VTubing, leveraging a virtual avatar to expand his presence and collaborations without relying solely on in-person streaming.

• Quote [16:54]:
  "Kind of going into stuff. I'm getting a lot more into cooking overall. And then like cooking and poker are like my two endeavors."

• Maintaining Groundedness:
  Despite his success, he emphasizes staying grounded and maintaining genuine connections over chasing a celebrity lifestyle.

  • Quote [17:47]:
    "I try to keep it like how I was before I was even a streamer and whatnot."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers an in-depth look into the multifaceted life of a pro gamer navigating the challenges and opportunities of the digital age. From early gaming exploits and strategic streaming success to the nuanced impacts of AI and personal growth, the guest provides valuable insights for aspiring gamers and enthusiasts alike. Sean Kelly adeptly steers the conversation, ensuring a rich and comprehensive exploration of what it truly takes to make it as a pro gamer in 2024.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Stigma of Gaming Careers:

  • "There was a big stigma before, right? Oh, I want to be a gamer. I want to be a YouTuber." [00:01]

• Among Us Impact:

  • "What started me online was, like, Among Us, I guess that was the really big kickstarter into everything." [01:10]

• AI and Creativity:

  • "A lot of them soul is like we're cutting corners, saving money and then a lot of their product just looks kind of mediocre bad." [13:44]

• Streaming Success:

  • "Yeah, really, really close. I think like 70k off." [07:20]

• Future with VTubers:

  • "Kind of going into stuff. I'm getting a lot more into cooking overall. And then like cooking and poker are like my two endeavors." [16:54]

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and structured overview for those who haven't had the chance to listen.

Transcript

[A]

Not as much as there used to be, but there was a big stigma before, right? Oh, I want to be a gamer. I want to be a YouTuber.

[B]

You think it's, like, a feasible path for most people, though?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

That's what I think, too.

[A]

I'm sure you get this. Also, like, parents, like, oh, my kid wants to do this. Like, do you have any advice for them that is starting this now? And you're like, well, good luck, I guess.

[B]

All right, guys, we got five up here today. Is this your first podcast?

[A]

I've done a few podcasts before, but it's been a moment since.

[B]

You've done a face reveal recently, right?

[A]

No, like, two years ago.

[B]

Two years ago?

[A]

Yeah. I guess that's kind of recent, but yeah.

[B]

Yeah, in comparison. How long you've been playing, I guess, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You've been PC gaming for how long now?

[A]

Oh, I've been playing games, at least in the scene for, like, seven years now, I'd say.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, two years is pretty recent.

[B]

Yeah. So what was the first big game that got you into things?

[A]

The game that got me into stuff, probably League of Legends was, like, the thing that kind of kickstarted me, if you know what that game is I used to play.

[B]

I was terrible.

[A]

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

[B]

You were probably really good. I assume I was Challenger in that game. Oh, you weren't good?

[A]

No, I was Challenger.

[B]

Oh, Challenger. Is that the highest rank?

[A]

Yeah, that's the highest rank you can be.

[B]

Wow. You're playing professionally?

[A]

Not professionally, but it kind of kickstarted me into, like, getting a bunch of connections and, like, meeting a bunch of people within the scene itself.

[B]

Got it. And then what game after that did you go to?

[A]

What started me online was, like, Among Us, I guess that was the really big kickstarter into everything, Right.

[B]

I used to watch all those videos with Toast and all those guys. Were you one of those players?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I play with Toast all the time.

[B]

Oh, nice. And you still play Among Us, right?

[A]

Yeah, I still do.

[B]

That's. That's impressive.

[A]

I love Deception games in general. It's. People can get tired of them. Me personally, I think I could see myself playing it for still, like, even years to go.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

I love it because I feel like it kind of died off a little bit.

[A]

It definitely had its, like, slumps. It's actually kind of coming back right now, though.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, surprisingly.

[B]

What do you think is bringing it back, Honestly?

[A]

Toast.

[B]

Oh, he's playing again?

[A]

Yeah, he started playing again, and everyone's like, well, it's time to go back.

[B]

Oh, God, yeah. Dude, he was so good at that game.

[A]

He's pretty good. I'm better, though.

[B]

You're better than Toast?

[A]

I'm better than Toast.

[B]

I mean, like, he'll say that.

[A]

Not publicly.

[B]

What's your ranking list of all time among US players?

[A]

Among US players? Overall, I think it kind of depends on, like, so among us, there's different roles and whatnot. Like, you'd be crewmate, imposter, like all around player. So I think all around, I'm the best.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I think crewmate wise, a person named Hafu is the best.

[B]

Oh, the girl, right? Yeah. Asian girl. Yeah, I've seen her.

[A]

And then Toast is also like, pretty. Like between us both also, I'd say.

[B]

Got it. So you're just really good at Imposter.

[A]

Yeah, specifically Imposter. I'm really good at crewmate. I'm not bad at though either.

[B]

Got it. When you get Imposter, what is your win rate?

[A]

I think it depends on the lobby. If it's like the lobby of like, I guess, medium skilled people, I'll usually win every time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, higher skill people. It depends on, like, because it's a two person game, it's very hard to win, like, as a solo person.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But even if I have like a decent partner, we'll usually win that round.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you're that good?

[A]

I'm pretty decent at it.

[B]

Dude. I need to see some gameplay. So are you just. Have you always been good at like deceiving, lying, stuff like that?

[A]

Okay, well, you put it like that, it looks bad. I've played a lot of deception games throughout my entire life. Whether it be, like, there's a lot of different starts with. So like, you have a game called Trouble in Trader, Trouble in Terrorist Town, which was a game really popular back in like 2011, which was all about essentially among us, but with guns.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I got really good at Mafia, which is like Werewolf. When I Ultimate World. There's other social deception games like that that I've just played in like, I guess higher skill groups for years. Like Among Us comes out, so it kind of fits all that.

[B]

Oh, so you were playing this style before, Among Us?

[A]

Oh, I have more than like 15 years of experience.

[B]

Oh, damn. Okay. Yeah, when you put it like that, no wonder you're one of the best.

[A]

Oh, yeah. It's like my skill set naturally built up for this.

[B]

Right. Because I feel like Among Us was a lot of people's first deception Game they tried out, right?

[A]

Yeah. I'd say it's like their introduction to the genre itself.

[B]

Right. How has the game been evolving recently? I haven't watched it in a couple years.

[A]

It's evolved where there's a lot of mods to the game now. So like people kind of got bored of the base game of Among Us and they introduced like, I don't know, like hundreds of different roles.

[B]

Oh. Like new maps and new roles, new.

[A]

Custom maps, new roles that you can do to kind of like spice it up and keep it like. So no one's just feeling bored like, oh, I got crewmate again. Guess I'll just do whatever until I die.

[B]

I will say the task did feel repetitive at a certain point.

[A]

Yeah. I mean doing it for four years, you can imagine.

[B]

What's your favorite mode right now?

[A]

Favorite mode? Hmm. I think it's more. Not so much modes, more so like lobbies and groups of people because the dynamic of the game changes depending on like the group you play with.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So do you like a skill based group or more just casual?

[A]

I like a group that knows how to entertain themselves while still being high skilled. Got it.

[B]

Yeah. So like toast group, right?

[A]

Yeah, essentially.

[B]

Yeah. Because they were all really good but they would just mess around a little bit.

[A]

Knows how to keep it fun and light hearted but also like they're still there to win.

[B]

Right. Right. Um, so you're. You were also a brown belt in martial. Martial arts?

[A]

Uh, I. Oh, how you know that?

[B]

I did some research.

[A]

Wow, you did some research. Okay. I was a. The one step below black belt brown.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Uh, I think it was red. Black for red.

[B]

Black. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And there's like. Because there's different black belt. I forget. I think it was karate or it was one of the two but they have different systems for it and. Yeah. So I was the stuff right below it.

[B]

And what made you want to stop before you got to black?

[A]

I didn't like fighting people to be. That was like kind of the correct. So like the higher level you got, the more it was like sparring and going to tournaments and whatnot. And that just didn't really interest me. I didn't really find enjoyment from it. I more like the forms and the I guess methodology behind everything. Got it. So after evolved into that I just lost interest.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah, that, that fact interests me when I saw that because I know you're a gamer and gamers aren't fighters, so. So the fact that you got that far is pretty impressive though. Dude.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Good Job. I. I only made it to blue, I think.

[A]

Oh, what made you stop?

[B]

I didn't like the training, dude. Boring. Like, you know, that's fair, that's fair. As a kid, you're just, like, wanting to have fun. And I feel like karate's like, you don't look forward to that.

[A]

It was excitement for me because you have the. I guess you can see your improvement. I guess, like, visual fair. I don't know, like, breaking through the wooden board. Right. That's like, not even in the scale of, like, how hard that is to break through. It goes from, like, white to, like, I don't know, I think black itself. And then that would be like. The wooden board would be like the third out of ten.

[B]

Right. So that makes sense.

[A]

Get to see all the progress.

[B]

How tough was it convincing your parents you wanted to do this profession?

[A]

Like, streaming in like this? Honestly, not hard at all, really. I kind of lived my life where it's like, they couldn't really control me. I was rebellious in the sense of, yeah, I don't have interest in something. I'm not going to do that. I have interest in this. I'm going to do this no matter what. And they just like, okay, whatever. Were confident in him. He's confident himself. And so they kind of just took a chance on it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because usually you hear that from parents. They kind of rebel against the video games.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No, I'm. I was very, very, very. I had a lot of leeway in whatever I did, which is.

[B]

Got it. Were you really skilled in other aspects in life, too? I'm like, academics, like, well, so I.

[A]

Was skilled at what I wanted to be skilled at. Like I said, when it comes to real life, like, if there's something interesting, I'll do it. If there's something not. So, like, in school, there's a lot of things I just didn't care about, so I didn't try in it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the subjects that I did excel in, it was the ones I was interested in.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So it kind of goes for like, every little thing is just pick up a new hobby or nuanced thing, and then I'll become really proficient at that specific thing itself.

[B]

Right. So that makes sense where your parents just kind of let you do it then.

[A]

Yeah, pretty much.

[B]

I mean, look how it paid off. You got almost a million on Twitch now, right?

[A]

Yeah, really, really close. I think like 70k off.

[B]

Dude, that's crazy. That's one of the highest I've heard on Twitch.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No, It's. It's a pretty daunting number, to be honest. Yeah.

[B]

I don't think many have hit that on Twitch. I wonder what the. The data is on that.

[A]

Actually, no, compared to, like, YouTube, Twitch is like. Hitting a million is a big number.

[B]

Yeah, well, on YouTube, I know this because I'm at a million. On YouTube, I'm ranked, I think, like, a thousand somewhere around there in the whole world.

[A]

Oh, is it.

[B]

Or it might be us. I don't know, but I was gonna.

[A]

Say that seems like for now, like, maybe in, like, 20, like in the tens or something. That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like there's a lot of people.

[B]

It might be us. Yeah. Don't quote me on that, but that makes sense. But for Instagram, I'm at 11 million and I'm ranked, like, 2000.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Twitch, if you have a million, you're probably, like, top hundred.

[A]

Yeah. I would top 500 as, like, the max, I think.

[B]

Yeah. And for Among Us, you're probably the number one. Right.

[A]

I think for competitive Among Us stuff, I am.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah. So there's, like. Because Among Us has different genres itself within it, like, you could do the. At the end of the day, it's also, like, four kids, too. So there's a lot of kids channel that just, like, thrive off of Among Us itself also.

[B]

Right. Are there actual competitions for money with Among Us?

[A]

There was every now, and there have been. And that was like, hosted by either, like, Twitch or Faze or whatnot. There hasn't been one in a long time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But they were trying to figure out a way to make it kind of competitive. And so there was cash prizes every now and then.

[B]

So it's kind of like Fortnite. Fortnite kind of fell off, too, with the money.

[A]

Yeah. Before, they also had, like, major organizations backing everything and trying to host tournaments itself. And the creators of Fortnite itself also, where Among Us is just like, this tiny little studio, three people.

[B]

Right. Have you met the creators of Among Us?

[A]

I haven't met them in person, but I do talk to them.

[B]

Oh, yeah?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nice. So they're still working on the game.

[A]

They're right now working as a production company, I guess, for other games because they're like, they had their big blow up and they're excited about that. So now they wanted to give that feeling to other people.

[B]

Right. So they must have made a ton off Among Us.

[A]

Oh, I mean, think about, like, how many. Okay. So you play a mobile game or whatnot. You see an ad yeah. Among us was the number one game for like three years or something like that. Like, there was more than hundreds of millions of people playing that. Yeah.

[B]

So just the ad plus the merch.

[A]

Yeah, ads, merch. And then like on Steam itself, it actually costs money instead of being free. Oh, everyone that plays off of online, that's like what. I don't know how much people.

[B]

And when you have kids as your audience, the parents are buying the merch and toys and.

[A]

Yeah, all this stuff, they are pretty. They're pretty set, they're pretty killing it.

[B]

Because I know a lot of kids played that game, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like the most popular game, I think, for a solid year globally. Like, I mean, there's a Jimmy Fallon did a segment on it for like.

[B]

Do you ever go in just random lobbies and troll people?

[A]

No, because it's like too easy. I mean, you either have to go undercover, but like people just recognize my voice. Even if I was to try and do that. Yeah.

[B]

So you need a voice changer.

[A]

I need a voice changer. And then I need a different play style. But then it's like, what am I really doing there?

[B]

Right, yeah. That would take away from your brand, right?

[A]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

Do you have your eye on any other games or you're pretty set with this one?

[A]

For now, I'm. I mean, always looking out for new games. Just like the deception game genre itself is one of the hardest genres to make games for itself. I don't think there will ever be a boom like among us ever again. Right. So I kind of look more for a different competitive games. Like there's a new one just came out called Deadlock, which was by Valve. It's okay. Like it's a moba, so like league, I guess, but the one in that genre.

[B]

Wow. Valve launched a new game.

[A]

Yeah, like soft launch it. Just public. I guess I can say I used.

[B]

To love Valve, dude.

[A]

Oh, you should check this game out then.

[B]

Okay. I feel like they haven't launched like a really good game in a while.

[A]

This game is pretty good. I think it's the biggest thing since like Apex or Valorant.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Did you ever get into first person shooter games casually?

[A]

I did. It was never something I was like actually just insane at. And it's kind of hard to play the game when you're like. You have to dedicate hours upon hours.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to build that hand. Eye coordination takes time. You play chess?

[A]

I dabbled in chess once upon a time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I was On a chess team in school. So that's why I was like, okay, you know what? I'm going to. I'll compete again for a little bit. Why not? I did a thing with Nemo, who's also competing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. She's nice.

[A]

Yeah. So we became good friends. She helped coach me in chess a little bit every now and then. And I did a competition. I got, I think, fourth place. Like a bunch of twitch streamers overall. Okay, so, like, still compared to like, actual chess players.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. What's your elo? Do you know your rank?

[A]

I think my peak was 1400.

[B]

Oh, we're right now nowhere.

[A]

Like, I'm like a 1k player. Max, right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you get back into it, hit me up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm a 1450.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, I'm decent. But Nemo is. God damn.

[A]

Oh, I mean, she's a WG episode.

[B]

Holy crap. What is she, like a 2000 something.

[A]

Something like that? She's insane, dude.

[B]

That's nuts. And she won the poke tournament last time.

[A]

Yeah, she was at my table initially.

[B]

Oh, you played last time?

[A]

Yeah, she won the first one.

[B]

Oh, the first one. Yeah. Yeah, okay. She was at my table last time.

[A]

Oh, okay. How'd you do?

[B]

I got wrecked. Dude, you should have seen my table. I had her. Rampage, Mariano.

[A]

Oh, okay, so you lost. Lost.

[B]

And Mariano and Rampage were right before me, so they were just raising every hand, so I had to play. Kind of tight.

[A]

I feel for you. Yeah, Sounds painful.

[B]

Yeah, it was rough. Dude, you play poker a lot?

[A]

When I'm not busy. It's a nice thing to just like, kind of not turn your brain off because it's very much an active thing. It's like exercising a different muscle. Yes. So whenever I have free time, I'll go and try and play.

[B]

Got it. Did you ever realize the money would be insane like this with streaming?

[A]

Yes and no. I mean, I never streamed for the money itself. I actually got peer pressured into streaming.

[B]

Really? Yeah. So you didn't even want to stream?

[A]

No, it was just something that kind of happened.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I was just friends with a lot of, I guess, YouTubers or streamers within the scene itself. And then when among us came out, they heavily peer pressure me. Like, yo, everyone's asking, who is this guy? Who is this guy? Okay, sure. And they're like, you need to stream this now. I'm like, oh, okay. I guess. Sorry. I guess. So I turned it on and then it was kind of an instant blow up. So I'm like, okay. I know how to run a business, so might as well just get everything kind of kick started and just instantly did that.

[B]

Got it. Where did you learn how to run a business?

[A]

My mom runs her own graphic design business. So just kind of self taught from like specialists I guess of just seeing the nuances from home.

[B]

Nice. AI has changed that space, right? Oh yeah.

[A]

To be honest, for that.

[B]

Yeah. All those artists got wrecked.

[A]

Yeah. It's A lot of people in the design space itself are like big corporations don't realize that like there's a nuance to everything and people can tell if something's soulless or not. But a lot of them soul is like we're cutting corners, saving money and then a lot of their product just looks kind of mediocre bad. Where they can just like spend a little bit more and then they have way ahead of everyone else because it's just not AI, Right.

[B]

Yeah, certain AI, you could tell it's like generated and it's not human.

[A]

Well, even if it looks good, a lot of it just kind of looks the same. Right. So everyone now all of a sudden is just a duplicate of themselves with a different color, a different font.

[B]

That's a good point. Yeah. I don't think it's at the level yet where it can fully replace talented artists.

[A]

No, I don't think it will get to that. Well, it'll get to that point, but not in the sense of originality, I guess.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There'll always be style because it's a prompt, it's prompted to do a certain thing.

[A]

Yeah. And it's based off of art pieces that it's taken itself.

[B]

Right. Were you very artistic growing up?

[A]

Yeah. Full of art, artist family.

[B]

Oh yeah. So all your family is into graphic design?

[A]

Art, yeah. Whether it's like traditional watercolor or graphic design.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yes. Art photography.

[B]

So they're feeling the full effects of AI.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Dang. Yeah. It's going to wipe out a lot of industries, I think.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean when. When I guess when industries get wiped out, there's always like a resurgence in a different way just by nature of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The easiest example is like people always say like a carriage, like horse drawn carriages. I thought that was a huge thing back when it like there was no cars, but now there's cars replaced. That industry said now it's like a nuanced thing. So there's always going to be fields that kind of replace it and things will come up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that is true. But even when I go to grocery stores now, it's It's a screen.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like you don't check out with people. I think those, those kind of jobs are going to be gone.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It'll be something that'll be regulated. But I'm curious what happens with it.

[B]

Yeah. So are you kind of pro AI anti or in the middle?

[A]

I'm not pro AI. I think there is uses for it. I think there's ways to get inspiration from it without like going into the scummy side of it.

[B]

Yeah. So similar to Elon. It's his view.

[A]

Is that his view?

[B]

Yeah, he's suing open AI.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Because they. He was one of the founders and then he started it not to make profit, but then something happened where they wanted to start making money and he didn't like that.

[A]

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that that's a big supporter of it.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, you're a big supporter.

[A]

No, I thought he was.

[B]

Oh, no, no. He's not part of it anymore.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

But now he has his own with Twitter. I forgot the name of his gronk or something. Yeah, I haven't used it yet, but.

[A]

It'S just another like chat GPTs thing.

[B]

Yeah. I got some trust issues with what kind of data I'm giving. You know what I mean?

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

The AI is so good. Now they can replicate your voice, replicate your face and make videos.

[A]

Biggest scare. I mean, there's a whole. The whole voice actor thing of like people are just stealing their voice. There's tons of games now where voice actors inside anything and they're just using AI to replicate their voice in the game.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

That was a huge thing recently. That's why it's like a big strike also for voice actors too.

[B]

Damn. Yeah, because now I can just use anyone's voice. You see fake Joe Rogan ads all the time.

[A]

Oh, Mr. Beast Eyes. Joe Rogan.

[B]

Mr. Beast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh my gosh, that's scary. I wonder if there's a way to combat that. If you're a public figure, I don't.

[A]

Think there's going to be a way to combat that other than like trademark protection on your image. But even then it's like any like 14 year old just with their own computer can just.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Here's a replication of now Mr. Beast doing that.

[B]

Right. Because you can't trademark your voice.

[A]

Yeah. So what are you going to do to protect it?

[B]

Right. People are making Drake songs and he's getting pissed.

[A]

Yeah. You can really do so. Yeah, it's It'll be regulation based on the country or whatnot.

[B]

For real. So what's a typical day like for you right now? You playing all day?

[A]

Typical day is. Yeah. Kind of streaming a lot. Was doing a big project or like, do you know anything about VTubers or whatnot?

[B]

View tubers.

[A]

VTubers, kind of like a virtual avatar.

[B]

No.

[A]

How to explain this? Imagine instead of, like me being in person, now there's like an, I guess a art design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Image of me that's not a 3D model, but it's a 2D model. But it moves like it's 3D. Big scene that was blowing up in the past two years that I'm dabbling in.

[B]

Okay, so what's the plan for that?

[A]

The plan for that now is my design is finished, so I've had that launch, but now it's kind of like going to the different design and I guess shows that I can run with that now.

[B]

Interesting. So you'll be everywhere at once.

[A]

Yeah, you can be anywhere. You can do. You can do collaborations with a bunch of other people that are also in the scene or even not in the scene itself.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's cool. Do you ever like the public spotlight being in that scene? Does it ever get to you?

[A]

I. So I've always tried to stay as grounded as possible. I don't like to be too much in the public eye itself. So like every now and then I'll go on stuff like this, or I'll do a poker show like this. But I try to keep it like how I was before I was even. A streamer and whatnot.

[B]

Pretty low key.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Laid back.

[A]

Yeah. I like just meeting people and having fun rather than like all the celebrity lifestyle.

[B]

Yeah. So that never attracted you, the attention, the views, like hanging out with celebrities?

[A]

No, I mean, it's fun hanging out with fun people. But that's for the sake of being like, having fun rather than like, oh, I'm in like this prestigious area.

[B]

Yeah. That's a mature take, man. I notice a lot of gamers are pretty logical, actually.

[A]

Yeah. Stay home and play video games, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Who would have thought, though, that would turn into a career, Right? Like, I got ridiculed growing up.

[A]

It's still growing in here also, like in Europe, for example, it's like just a completely normalized thing here. There's still like, not as much as there used to be, but there was a big stigma before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But even now, it's like people like, wait a second, you can earn money doing this now I like, ask any kid, right. Oh, I want to be a gamer. I want to be a YouTuber.

[B]

Yeah. You think it's like a feasible path for most people though?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

That's what I think too.

[A]

Yeah. It's. You get parents, I'm sure you get this also, like, parents, like, oh, my kid wants to do this. Like, do you have any advice for them? They're starting this now and you're like, well, good luck.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's important to be honest and just look at the statistics. How many people play video games and how many of them actually make a livable income.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not high.

[A]

No, it's compared to like the thousands of thousands of people want to do it. It's not.

[B]

No, not at all. I mean, it probably took you. Oh, you blew up pretty quick, I feel like. But for most gamers, probably took a while, right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you can be one of the best in your field and you can still not have any popularity with that and be able to make money just because it is. At the end of the day, it's also like luck and personality. Right.

[B]

Because Among Us took off at the right time for you where you could just blow up. But like you said, you were playing games for ten years before that and they probably didn't have the same eyeballs as among us.

[A]

Oh, nothing at all. Yeah. Among Us was the. I mean it realistically, besides, like Minecraft was the biggest game or in. Fortnite was like the biggest game in the public eye for just like normal casual people.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. I wonder if Fortnite or Among Us had more players actually.

[A]

Mm. I think at its all time peak, I think Among Us actually had more. Whoa. I'm pretty sure that's crazy Mobile.

[B]

That's true. Fortnite got removed from the App store.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. It's really funny, to be honest.

[B]

I don't know what happened. It's still gone.

[A]

Yeah, there was. I think it was. There was. They didn't want to pay Apple the.

[B]

Price for skins 30%.

[A]

Yeah, something like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it got taken off because they just refused and then they made like a joke. Apple skin in game.

[B]

Yeah. But now they're both losing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know if that worked out.

[A]

I mean, Fortnite's still huge.

[B]

They're still huge. I mean, but still they're both losing out on probably tens of millions.

[A]

Yeah, probably. But I mean, at that point, what is tens of millions to them?

[B]

Good point, good point. Solid perspective. Would you Ever launch your own game?

[A]

Yes, I would if I had the correct circumstance for it. There was a. I was actually making a game. Oh. It ended up getting boxed, sadly.

[B]

Too expensive.

[A]

Yeah. There was some complication with one person I was going to fund us that didn't end up funding us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's something I still want to do. I enjoy the production side of things itself and like kind of project directing our direction of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think I have a good eye of like what will get popular and what makes a game popular.

[B]

Yeah, they do seem very expensive to make a good game.

[A]

It's. Yeah. I mean, you have to have a lot of passion people because, like, you're gonna either have to have millions of dollars or you're gonna have to underpay your staff or you have to do, strike a deal with them to like get a bunch of talented people to make a game itself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Without any like, initial funding and for.

[B]

A first time game maker, that's like impossible.

[A]

Yeah, I had the. I had all the doves. It was the art side that was what ended up halting it, really.

[B]

You're an artist, though.

[A]

Well, okay, I'm an artist, but like making a whole game with like all the 3D assets and music and like, if you really. If you think of a game, right. This is a random tree. You have to make that random tree. There's like so much that goes into it.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. It made me think of runescape. I used to be a woodcutter.

[A]

Spend hours chopping trees.

[B]

Hours. I Never got to 99 though, man.

[A]

Did you know you weren't dedicated then?

[B]

I got to maybe 90 on one of them, but some people had maxed out accounts. I'm like, how?

[A]

Oh yeah, that was my brother.

[B]

Your brother did that?

[A]

Yeah, he was a pretty well known Runescape player.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Who was he?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Honestly, I don't remember Zema or whatever.

[A]

Oh, no. But I do know that guy. He tried to play among us every now and then.

[B]

Oh, really? Oh, wow. I didn't know he was still around the gaming world.

[A]

Yeah, he. He still dabbles in Runescape and he's. He's also a big league player.

[B]

Wow. People still play Runescape?

[A]

Oh, Runescape is huge. What? Yeah. You didn't know?

[B]

No, I thought it died off because they changed it or whatever.

[A]

What happened was they made the newer. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't like the new.

[A]

Everyone hated it. So like, okay, we'll just relaunch the old one. And then it's like explosion Isn't it.

[B]

Funny how games do that? Fortnite does that with their original map every year.

[A]

Yeah, people like. Nostalgia is a very powerful thing.

[B]

That is crazy. No, I mean, what is there to do once you're maxed out though?

[A]

That's an excellent question. I don't really. I mean, go for challenges, I guess. Go for like.

[B]

I guess collect gold.

[A]

Yeah. I was never like a Max Max Outlet player. I just had a few skills in 99 casually.

[B]

What was your skill of choice?

[A]

Thieving.

[B]

You were that guy.

[A]

I was in. Well, once again to the deception stuff. I was a big scammer in Runescape.

[B]

Oh, you were?

[A]

Yeah, it was. I mean I was like a 12 year old playing that game. I was like, oh, this is captivating. Deceiving people to give them money.

[B]

Wow. So how did the scam work?

[A]

There's a bunch of different ways to do it, I guess. Whether it's just be convincing people to like follow you into a place where you can kill them and get their. Or like I was part of a.

[B]

Scamming guild, which was a scamming guild.

[A]

There's a few scamming guys. I'm part of one of the larger ones.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And we knew a lot of the glitches in the game, I guess to just. Yeah. I mean flat out making it. Forcing people to drop items that they don't know they're dropping and then like you remove them from that area or like unpickable. Or like make them drop something in an area where you can't pick it up no matter what.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you use a spell to pick it up.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. There's just a ton.

[B]

I would never like know how to do that. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. It's by word of mouth for sure.

[B]

That's crazy. Yeah. That was back then when you probably couldn't even look up these scams on Google, right?

[A]

Oh, no. I mean some of them were public, some of them weren't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Obviously the good ones weren't.

[B]

I remember getting PK to ruin my whole week. Oh man. The first time you get decayed. Yeah. Imagine if you're on the other end. Runescape. Good memories. I feel like that was the first game for me.

[A]

Yeah, I think that was probably my first game also like actually online first game.

[B]

Yeah, it was fun. I used to do the Clan wars too.

[A]

Oh yeah, that's always fun.

[B]

Yeah, those were fun. Did you have the membership? The paid one?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Dedicating that much time to run.

[B]

Skip, did you ever get into Maple Story.

[A]

I did not get into a Maple Story. No. I feel like it was always like either Runescape or Maplestory. It was never both for people.

[B]

True. I got in that. I was scamming in that one for sure with the trades because all the scrolls look the same. You could just replace it with a shittier scroll.

[A]

Yeah. People are trying to convince me to play Maplestory back in the day because the scamming was.

[B]

There was a lot of scamming and hacking.

[A]

That's true also.

[B]

Yeah. Was there hacking in Runescape?

[A]

Um, I don't. There wasn't so much as hacking is more just like botting bottom.

[B]

Yeah, that was a big one.

[A]

Yeah. Everyone's just getting like they don't want to chop wood for a year of their life. So like.

[B]

Yeah. I could never figure it out how to set it up.

[A]

I mean it's just auto clicker.

[B]

You had one year.

[A]

I had a person level. Other things for me. But like. Okay, you can have full on programs like run Pathing for you.

[B]

Pathing. Wow. You get into flif?

[A]

No.

[B]

Really?

[A]

What is that?

[B]

Fly Fly ff.

[A]

I don't think I know what that is now.

[B]

Oh, okay. It's like a Maple store. I don't think. What else? Team Fortress.

[A]

Oh yeah. Huge team fortress for. I mean any type of game that you have like trading in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whether it's like items or like I guess. And TF2 is hats and weapons and whatnot. Usually I'm playing that type of thing.

[B]

So you played Fortnite too then?

[A]

I did play a little bit of Fortnite. Fortnite was actually.

[B]

You can't trade.

[A]

You can't. You can't trade in Fortnite. But it was like an okay game. It wasn't really my style.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't trade. Team Fortress though was so fun.

[A]

Team Fortress. Cs.

[B]

Go csgo. What was your class in Team Fortress? I should have even asked that.

[A]

Yeah. It's kind of obvious, but I like that.

[B]

Yeah. So you like those movies where people are undercover?

[A]

Oh yeah. Any type of like you have to outsmart people I guess is a fun way to think about what I like.

[B]

Have you ever done an IQ test?

[A]

I. I don't think I've taken an official IQ test. I've taken one of those like ADHD facility kind of testing all around things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was the results?

[A]

The results of that? I came back as an anomaly.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. It was. Yeah. Inconclusive in some aspects.

[B]

I didn't even know that was possible.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't either. It's kind of bad, to be honest. No, what they ended up doing was there was a few tests that was based off of doing things in the fewest moves possible. A lot of like if you've done one of those tests before is very similar to an IQ test. You have like puzzles in front of you or like logic deduction things or memory based things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a lot of the tests, they held a stopwatch in front of me and they're like, I looked, I'm like, oh, is this timed? And they're like, no, don't worry about the time at all. I'm like, but there's a stopwatch in front of me. So I ended up doing everything extremely quickly but interesting. As accurate as I could be, but I still ended up doing it quick.

[B]

But they weren't even running the stop.

[A]

They were running the stopwatch.

[B]

Oh, they were?

[A]

Yeah. It was based on. It was based on accuracy and I didn't know that. I thought it was gonna be based on time.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So that's where a lot of things kind of came back inconclusive. But I was also in the place I tested was the first person to get 100% on a memory section.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have photographic memory, you think?

[A]

Not. I don't say it photographic memory, but like I'm. I have like memory based on relation to things.

[B]

I guess there must be a word for that because I know there's photographic audio, graphic, and then there's one for touch kinesiology or something.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I, it's. It's very hard to describe how my memory works. It's very much. Once I can associate something to something, I won't forget it.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, that is interesting. So you just tie it to an object or a thing and tie it.

[A]

To an object or a place or a feeling.

[B]

Wow, that's impressive because a lot of humans just forget everything.

[A]

I mean, I don't get to choose often when I get to do that. It's just something I like. I naturally will remember it.

[B]

So you got some bad memories too then?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That are still with you?

[A]

Yeah, Bad memories are also like, I'll just. There's something important, I'll just forget it because I just don't deem it as important.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. How close are you with your brother?

[A]

Big talk every now and then. Not too close.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm fairly into. I mean, I guess my entire family is fairly independent, as is all introverted, kind of. Yeah, introverted. Or like just kind of staying in their own lane, doing their own thing.

[B]

That's how my dad's side is. All PC gamers, all introverted. Just lock them in a closet for a year and you wouldn't notice.

[A]

Yep, pretty much.

[B]

Yeah. That's interesting. Well, dude, it's been fun getting to know your side of the world. What do you got going on next and what are your predictions for tonight's game?

[A]

Kind of going into stuff. I'm getting a lot more into cooking overall. And then like cooking and poker are like my two endeavors. Kind of interested in overall, I guess for today, I think. I mean, Wolfgang, my table.

[B]

Oh, that's tough.

[A]

Yeah. Pretty decent shot at winning, I think any of the people that just like, actually play poker a lot. So, like, obviously Nemo also, yeah, big advantage. But there's like, I mean, by nature of poker and how. Especially how quick this tournament is. It's anyone's game, really, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah, we'll see what happens, man. Thanks for coming on.

[A]

Yeah, thank you for having me.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for watching as always, guys. See you next time.

[A]

Hey, music fans, there are some great.

[B]

Concerts headed this way.

[A]

Don't miss out on all the shows in your favorite venues, like Deftones at Madison Square Garden, Eagles at the Sphere, and Foster the people at the Ryman Auditorium. Tickets are going fast, so don't wait.

[B]

Head to livenation.com to get your tickets. Now that's livenation.com.