This Ancient Text Changes the Esau Story...| Doc Brown | DSH #1923

Summary

Digital Social Hour | Ep. #1923
This Ancient Text Changes the Esau Story... | Doc Brown
Date: April 20, 2026
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Justin “Doc” Brown, author of The Epic of Esau

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Overview

In this episode, Sean Kelly sits down with Justin “Doc” Brown, a writer, researcher, and host of the Prometheus Lens podcast, to explore radical perspectives on ancient Biblical stories—especially the figure of Esau, who Doc provocatively connects to “Biblical Bigfoot.” Drawing from canonical and apocryphal texts (like Jasher and Jubilees), comparative mythology, and linguistic analysis, Doc challenges traditional Christian interpretations and seeks deeper truths lost in translation and time.

Brown delves into hidden connections among ancient texts, the mysterious tradition of supernatural garments, and the ongoing quest to understand humanity’s forgotten history and metaphysical inheritance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Esau/Bigfoot Connection

• Brown’s interpretation of Esau: The story in Genesis describes Esau as “red and covered in hair from head to toe,” which Doc argues resembles accounts of Bigfoot. Traditional interpretations explain this away as symbolism or exaggeration, but Doc insists on a literal reading.

  “If you take the story and just let it say what it says, he was covered in hair... This wasn’t poetic language. He was literally that hairy.” (00:44, Doc Brown)

• Esau as a Nephilim: Doc suggests Esau was a Nephilim (offspring of divine beings and women, according to Genesis 6), noting similar themes across cultures.

  “I believe so.” (01:45, Doc Brown, on Esau being Nephilim)

Ancient Texts and Comparative Mythology

• Beyond the Bible: Doc investigates texts like Jubilees, Jasher, and Enoch, preferring not to engage with Gnostic texts (e.g., Nag Hammadi). He stresses the value of cultural and historical context from non-canonical works.

  “Something doesn’t have to be divine inspired for historical and cultural context.” (02:24, Doc Brown, quoting Dr. Michael Heiser)

• Parallel Myths Across Civilizations: Doc outlines recurring motifs of divine beings mixing with humans, resulting in hybrids or “demigods.” Examples span Greek and Mesopotamian myths, Native American stories ("Star people"), and wider traditions.

  “If I see the same story over and over again throughout every culture, every time, there has to be something to it.” (04:01, Doc Brown)

The Decline of the Nephilim

• Fading Bloodlines: Nephilim traits became diluted through intermarriage and the entropy of time, much like current human fertility declines.

  “Everything gets worse with time... those traits and stuff just kind of fade away.” (05:45, Doc Brown)

The Ancient Garments – Symbols of Authority and the True Meaning of Birthright

• Birthright and Garments: Through apocryphal sources (e.g., Jasher), Doc explores why Esau exchanged his birthright for “red stew,” suggesting that the context was a life-or-death outcome after a battle with Nimrod and Nephilim warriors, not simple hunger.

  “If we take the story of the book of Jasher, he just killed the king, he’s on the run... So he’s desperate.” (13:31, Doc Brown)

  “Now it makes a whole lot more sense when he says, ‘What use is a birthright to me when I’m dead? Take it.’” (14:42, Doc Brown)

• Garments from Eden to Nimrod to Esau: Doc tracks symbolic garments from God clothing Adam, through the Flood (via Noah, Ham, Nimrod), and into the Esau narrative, arguing these garments represented dominion and priesthood.

  “Those garments were the supernatural garments from the garden of God given to Adam when he discovered his nakedness... It was the symbol of kingship and priesthood.” (15:31, Doc Brown)

  “Nimrod was not born a gibborim—he becomes one. Legends attribute it to these garments.” (17:46, Doc Brown)

Symbolism, Literalism, and the Nature of Biblical Texts

• Decoding Ancient Semantics: Brown points to original Hebrew wordplay, such as “nakash” meaning both serpent and “shining one,” and “canonet” as a tunic rather than just animal skins.

  “So to me, what makes more sense: a talking snake caused the rebellion of man—or was it a divine heavenly being... that rebelled?” (07:05, Doc Brown)

• Why There Are Gaps & Mysteries in the Bible: The ancients took context for granted; modern readers are often puzzled by condensed or missing stories.

  “These ancient writers weren’t thinking of us thousands of years later... they thought, ‘everybody knows about Esau.’” (15:05, Doc Brown)

The Mirrored Worlds: On Earth as it is in Heaven

• Reflective Symbolism: Doc explains how the structure of the Tabernacle and biblical rituals mimic heavenly realities, mirroring the divine with earthly structures, down to the cardinal directions of Israelite encampments reflecting constellations and cherubim.

  “Those things were mirrored images of what was going on in heaven, like a shadow.” (36:33, Doc Brown)

• Priestly garments, Joseph’s Many-Colored Coat, and the Ephod: He connects the colors and function of sacred garments through Adam, Joseph, and Ezekiel’s vision of Satan as a priest.

  “Elijah’s mantle... Hebrew word ‘canonet’... I think that could be the garments. That famous story of Joseph... coat of many colors.” (23:45–27:03, Doc Brown)

• Final appearance in Revelation: The garment soaked in blood—worn by Christ in Revelation—links to Joseph, blending the themes of suffering, kingship, and fulfillment.

  “Now Christ has on the supernatural garments, the crown, the symbol of kingship and priesthood, and it's soaked in blood, just like Joseph’s was.” (27:49, Doc Brown)

Critique of Literal vs. Symbolic Reading & Openness to Other Traditions

• No single tradition has all the answers: Doc welcomes input from other mythologies and religions; warns against narrow-minded literalism or refusing extra-biblical texts:

  “Not one person has it all figured out, not one religion has it all figured out... We need to exchange these puzzle pieces and put together this mosaic.” (33:08, Doc Brown)

• Cultural Context of “Resets” and Forgotten History: Doc believes repeated civilizational resets explain lost histories and ambiguous archeological finds—Bible gives one global flood, but other cultures speak of multiple cataclysms.

  “I think we’ve been through several resets and just because the Bible doesn’t say that, doesn’t mean it’s not true.” (42:00–43:12, Doc Brown)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Reading Ancient Texts:

  “I read the text and let the text say what it says and leave my preconceived notions and stuff like that out the door. ... I just try to seek it out, man.” (02:03, Doc Brown)

• On Literal vs. Symbolic Birthright Exchange:

  “What use is birthright to me when I'm dead? That makes no sense. None of us would do that.” (00:16 and 14:42, Doc Brown)

• On Mythological Connections:

  “Names might be different, but the story is the same, right?” (04:54, Doc Brown)

• On Garments and Dominion:

  “Those garments were originally Satan’s. ... And that alone gives you a reason why Satan hates you so much.” (27:03, Doc Brown)

• On Gathering Knowledge:

  “I have very few original thoughts. I’m just a puzzle piece gatherer.” (19:19, Doc Brown)

• On the Importance of Asking Questions:

  “If you think you got it all figured out and the people around you all do, you’re just going to remain ignorant your whole life because you’re only fooling yourself.” (33:28, Doc Brown)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:43 — Introduction & The Hairy Esau Analogy
• 02:20–03:49 — The Value of Apocryphal Texts; Ancient People’s Perspective
• 04:01–05:23 — Comparative Mythology: Nephilim, Anunnaki, Star People
• 05:23–06:36 — Do Nephilim still exist? Bloodlines and Entropy
• 07:05–09:26 — Linguistics: 'Nakash,' Original Hebrew, and Figurative Curses
• 13:31–15:05 — Esau, Nimrod, and the Real Birthright Story (Book of Jasher)
• 15:31–19:19 — The Supernatural Garments Trace; Adam to Nimrod to Esau
• 27:03–30:14 — Priestly Garments, Joseph’s Coat, Revelation and Messianic Typology
• 32:22–33:28 — The Trap of Labels, Comparative Religion as a Mosaic
• 35:48–36:33 — Upcoming Work: “On Earth as it is in Heaven”
• 36:33–41:03 — Mirrored Temples, Cherubim, Constellations, and Symbolic Structures
• 42:00–44:07 — Forgotten History, Lost Knowledge, and the Theory of Multiple Resets

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How to Find Doc Brown

• Podcast: Prometheus Lens Podcast ([search with “podcast” to avoid Destiny game references])
• Website: prometheuslenspodcast.com (buy signed books and get extras)
• Book: The Epic of Esau (physical/digital/Audio, narrated by Doc)
• Also on: Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and other major platforms

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Final Thoughts

Doc Brown’s approach challenges listeners to go beyond superficial readings, connect themes across cultures, and embrace a treasure hunt for deeper truth. While his ideas may be called heretical by traditionalists, his drive is understanding—reminding us that ancient peoples assumed rather than explained their culture, and that our knowledge is built from piecing together many “puzzle pieces” from various stories and perspectives.

“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but it is the glory of kings to search things out.” (30:22, Doc Brown quoting Proverbs)

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For fans of ancient mysteries, esoteric Bible study, and alternative history, this episode is a feast of connections and context.

Transcript

[Justin Doc Brown]

You know, in modern terms, your father's Donald Trump. You know, you're next in line. All the real estate, all the money, everything's gonna be yours. The keys to the kingdom are yours. And you come in and you're trading stocks all day or whatever, and your younger brother sitting on the couch eating Doritos and you're like, hey man, I'm starving, let me get some of those Doritos. He's like, yeah, sure, just sign over the company and everything you're gonna inherit. Ah, sure. What use is birthright to me when I'm dead? That makes no sense. None of us would do that.

[Sean]

Duh. Okay, guys, Justin Doc Brown here today with his book, the Epic of Esau. We're going to talk about Esau, AKA Bigfoot, right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, Biblical Bigfoot.

[Sean]

Biblical Bigfoot, man. Yeah, people know him as Bigfoot. But how did the Esau name come about?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, honestly, grew up Christian, you know, majority of my life, and heard the story of Esau from the book of Genesis many times, but just one day, man, it just hit me different. I was reading it and for those that's not familiar, it says the first one came out red, covered in hair from head to toe, like a hairy cloak. I was like, man, that sounds pretty squatchy to me. And growing up, they would just explain that away as symbolism or poetic language. Oh, he just had a good beard, you know, or he's like your uncle takes his shirt off and got that hairy back underneath his shirt, you know. But nah, man, if you take the story and just let it say what it says, he was covered in hair from head to toe. So much so that in the book of Genesis, his twin brother, to fool their blind father, kills a goat and wraps it around him like a blanket to fool his blind father. So, you know, this wasn't poetic language. He was literally that hairy.

[Sean]

Wow. So he was a Nephilim is what they call him?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Sean]

Wow. A lot of people don't interpret it that way.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Right, right. It's not the typical, you know, Christian perspective on it or how it's been taught. But me, I just, I'm that Christian that some people call a heretic. But it's just. I want truth, man.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

I read the text and I let the text say what it says and leave my pre conceived notions and stuff like that out the door. And I just try to seek it out, man, and just, I don't try to dance around it and twist it into this bow that fits my interpretation. That's where I came to.

[Sean]

And you're reading texts that some of them predate the Bible, right? These ancient texts?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, some of these are all around that same time. You have a bunch of apocryphal books like Enoch and Jasher Jubilees, all those stories that didn't make it into the quote unquote canon. But I read those and I tell people, I try to stay away from the Nag Hammadi text. Those are more like Gnostic leaning texts. I don't get into those. But like Jasher Jubilees, I tell people, man, I know how to eat chicken. I eat the meat and throw the bone over my shoulder and keep going. So I like Dr. Michael Heiser, he was a biblical scholar and he says something that's always stuck out to me. And he says something doesn't have to be divine inspired. For historical and cultural contexts, we tend to forget this is an ancient book written by ancient people for ancient people. So we need to step into their shoes, their mindset, their culture, and then that way we can better understand the true meaning of the writings that they were writing.

[Sean]

That's a key distinction. Right. Because a lot of people try to interpret it literally in today's world.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yes.

[Sean]

But these texts, some of them are what, tens of thousands of years old?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, you know, these are some of them. And we can debate, you know, if Moses was the one that wrote like the first five books of the Torah or not. But in the very least, I mean, we're looking at, you know, 3,000 years old.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So I mean, they're pretty old. But then you also have the Mesopotamian text with the Anunnaki and things like that. And me with my worldview. That's the same story. It was Genesis 6.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Because Genesis 6 says the b' nai ha Elohim in Hebrew. And every time that word is used, it's talking about divine heavenly beings. It says that the, the sons of God came down and bred with the daughters of men and made Nephilim giants and the Anunnaki come down. They made a race of people, you know, and were worshiped as gods. You get into the Greek texts, they had this pantheon of gods and Zeus and all these other gods there. They come down, they breed with women. What do they make? They make hybrid races. They make demigods, Hercules, Perseus. So with me, I look at all those things because I love comparative mythology. So if I see the same story over and over again throughout every culture, every time, there has to be something to.

[Sean]

That has to be right.

[Justin Doc Brown]

It stems from an ancient source.

[Sean]

Yeah. Because these are cultures that aren't communicating with each other and they're writing about the same topics.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yes. Names might be different, but the story is the same, Right?

[Sean]

Yeah. Names are just what they give the name to, Right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

There's not really significance in that, but they're talking about the same exact things.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. The Native Americans, you know, North America. I have a lot of Native American friends. And they talk about they have the same stories.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

They called them the Star people. The Star people came down, bred with the daughters of men, and they were cannibalistic and violent war tribes. So it's like, once again, another story, same plot line.

[Sean]

Interesting.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Names are different.

[Sean]

What do you think happened to the nephilim these days? Because now there's people that have TV shows hunting them down. It seems like they're not as abundant. Right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. See, me, I think it's when we look at, like, science, for instance, you know, the theory of entropy, we can physically observe. You know, Sean, if you set an apple on this table and walked away, a week from now, that thing will be rotten in on itself.

[Sean]

Right.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Bridges, if they go on unmaintained, they rust up and they fall apart. So nothing gets better with time. We can physically observe. Everything gets worse with time. So I think the bloodlines are the same. Gary Wayne talks about that they were having reproduction and breeding issues, and so therefore they couldn't reproduce and repopulate. So then they started intermarrying with the human race. And after a while, it just gets so diluted that those. Those traits and stuff just kind of fade away.

[Sean]

Interesting, because you're actually seeing that right now with humans. We're having a fertility issue. Yeah. And that's a worldwide thing going on right now. There's certain countries that are losing population because we can't reproduce quick enough.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. Wow.

[Sean]

So that could happen to humans.

[Justin Doc Brown]

No. Yeah, for sure. Yes. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing gets better over time.

[Sean]

Jeez.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And. But this. This guy here, when I seen that, you know, I was like, man, that guy, he sounds pretty squatchy. So then I got to looking at the story a little more, and it says that Rebecca, his mother, when she becomes pregnant, the angel of the Lord comes to her and he says, two nations, two peoples are in your womb. And they battle with each other in the womb. And he said there would be enmity between the two. When we get to Genesis, you know, at the garden, what happens when God gives the cursings to them? He looks at the woman and he says, I will put Enmity between her seed and thy seed, talking to the English translation, the servants. But in Hebrew, that means nakash. Now, the Hebrew language is like any other language. One word can have multiple meanings. So it's important we go back and see all the various translations and insert them all in to see which one fits better with the context. So another translation for nakash can be the shining one or the one who practices divination. So to me, what makes more sense, a talking snake caused the rebellion of man? Or was it a divine heavenly being on God's holy mountain, a member of his divine council that rebelled. So to me, that makes a lot more sense. But in that cursing, though, he tells them the enmity between the two seeds. And he says that one will bruise one's head, but the other will bruise the other's heel. This ancient text was a scroll. It wasn't a book. It didn't have chapters. So just a few verses away from that event, we have the birth of Esau. And so she says, two nations, two peoples are in your womb. Then it says, when they're born, the first one come out red, covered in hair from head to toe, like a hairy cloak. And then it gives this extra little detail that Jacob, his brother, is clutching the heel. So if he's coming out first, you can easily imagine that his foot pushing on the head of his younger brother to exit the womb, bruising the head, and then here he is, bruising the heel. So it's a Polaroid picture in my eyes of the curse in Genesis 3:15. And that would have been the first thing that the ancient reader thought about because they just read this event in the garden. You're going to put enmity between the two. The angel says, two nations, two peoples are in your womb, and they're battling amongst themselves. One would bruise one's head, the other would bruise the hill. Then at the birth, that's exactly what you see. I mean, it's a Polaroid picture.

[Sean]

That's crazy. You're good at connecting the dots.

[Justin Doc Brown]

I enjoy it, man. It's a treasure hunt.

[Sean]

Yeah. No, it for real is, because if you're just reading one source, you're not. You're never going to know that stuff, right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

No.

[Sean]

That is crazy.

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[Justin Doc Brown]

more famous stories known in the Bible. It was the trading of the birds, right? And in that story you have Esau. He was known as the mighty hunter, described as what we would call in our modern vernacular, a sasquatch. A huge man covered in hair from head to toe. It just says in Genesis that he comes in from the field exhausted, and he sees his brother preparing red stew and he says, hey, give me some of that red stew. He's like, sure, but you're going to trade me your birthright. And he's like, sure. And he kind of makes this remark that I thought was kind of like a little catty, smarty looking remark. But he's like, what use is a birthright to me when I'm dead? Take it. I was like, that makes absolutely no sense to me. You know, in modern terms, your father's Donald Trump. You know, you're next in line. All the real estate, all the money, everything's going to be yours. The keys to the kingdom are yours. And you come in and you're from trading stocks all day or whatever and your brother, your younger brother sitting on the couch eating Doritos and you're like, hey man, I'm starving. Let me get some of those Doritos. He's like, yeah, sure, just sign over the company and everything you're going to inherit. Ah, sure. What uses birthright to me when I'm dead? Take it. That makes no sense. None of us would do that. No, but when I got into the Book of Jasher, it filled in the dots and I tell people you know, like I said earlier, the whole, you know, something not being divine inspired can be important for history and for culture, context. Well, when you get into there, it says that Esau is out into the field. He's known as the mighty man or the mighty hunter. And then it inserts Nimrod. And Nimrod was also known as the mighty hunter. So I tell people I kind of seen that is like the Highlander, you know, there can only be one baby, so they're going to fight it out and see who the real mighty man was. And it says that Nimrod built up hatred and jealousy and envy toward Esau all his days. And it words it like he goes out to hunt this hairy beast of a man. Kind of like Beauty and the Beast, Gaston going after the wild animal, you know, the beast. But it says that Esau sees him coming with a hunting party. And I don't give it like an exact number, but it just says a hunting party. And one bit of the party goes one way and him and two of his gibborim go with him. And that Hebrew word, more often than not when it's used, it's associated with Nephilim giants. So it kind of insinuates here that, you know, these were three giant men hunting after him. And it says that he jumps out and surprises him, cuts off Nimrod's head with a sword, and then he battles the other two gibborim to the death. So this guy single handedly in combat kills three gibborim.

[Sean]

Jeez.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And it says the hunting party hears the screams and the commotion and comes to run to see what's going on. So he's had this battle with three giants, just killed the king, probably sustained some life threatening injuries. And it says that he takes the time to remove Nimrod's garments. And then it says he goes home, hides those garments, and then he goes into his brother's tent. And so there it dovetails perfectly into the Genesis story where it says he comes in from the field exhausted. Well, yeah, he come in from the field exhausted. Alright, if we take the story of the book of Jasher, he just killed the king, he's on the run, just killed two other giants, probably sustained some life threatening injuries. So he's desperate. So he's got, I think the red soup. That never made sense before makes sense now. But the red soup was, in my opinion basically allegory for, you know, sustain me, give me life, saving care, hide me, I'm on the run. And Jacob takes advantage and that's now it makes a whole lot more sense when he says, what use is a birthright to me when I'm dead? Take it. And I was like, oh my gosh.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So I was like, I have to search these things out and I'm going to look at all these ancient legends and extra biblical books. Because just from me reading that little piece cleared up some of the most ambiguous questions that I had about the text. And I believe they're that way, not to be nefarious. I just think these ancient writers wouldn't thinking of us thousands of years later.

[Sean]

Yeah. Who would be right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. They're like, everybody knows about Esau. You know, same thing with Genesis 6. You get this little blurb and then it moves on. And we're like, whoa, whoa. I want some more context with that. But they're like, everybody's got the Book of Enoch. Everybody knows we're not going to beat a dead horse here. So I think that's something that we are missing and that we're suffering from it.

[Sean]

Yeah. So you're on a giant puzzle hunt.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Trying to connect all the dots.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

What other questions are you trying to solve right now?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, when I went through that after that happened, I was like, my first question was, well, what is so special about those garments that the king had that he took the time to steal and then hide in his tent before receiving life saving care? Well, the book of Jasher, when you go a little farther, it answers that. I tell people, we can debate this is historical fiction. Right. Wrong, whatever. But we cannot debate that this was the beliefs of the people of the time. So I think it's important to study it out. But it says that basically those garments were the supernatural garments from the garden of God given to Adam when he discovered his nakedness. Because Genesis says that God gives them a covering. And of course, some English translations say skins. But when you go to the original Hebrew, it says that he healbishes Adam's nakedness with a canonet. And that word is translated more often than not as just a tunic. So this was the birthright. It was the symbol of kingship and priesthood. So Adam was the first king and priest of creation. He was given dominion, and then it was passed off to the eldest son through the righteous line. And it traced them going all the way through Enoch, Methuselah to Noah. It said Noah had them going over the flood. And then it says in Ham's going out that Ham steals the garments and that he gives them to Cush. And it says Cush hides them. And it says that he has Nimrod. And it says that Nimrod was the child of his old age whom he loved exceedingly. And then at the coming of age, at 20 years old, he gives Nimrod the garments, it says he puts them on and he becomes a gibborem. So it even matches the book of Genesis. Some things that a lot of people theorize on and ask questions about. It doesn't say Nimrod was born a gibboream. It says he becomes a gibborim.

[Sean]

Interesting.

[Justin Doc Brown]

People's like, so what did he do? Did he do some ritual, occult, sex magic, you know, like Aleister Crowley or some kind of sacrificial thing? Deal with the devil? You know, what is this? Well, the ancient legends attribute it to these garments. And so this was basically the crown. It was the king or symbol of kingship and priesthood. And once again, my mind was blown. Of another commonly misunderstood story that never made sense. Just like the red stew. And it tied in here beautifully. And so when you go to that story of the flood, for those that's not familiar, it says that Ham uncovers his father's nakedness and then he's cursed. But actually he's not cursed. His firstborn son, Canaan, is cursed. And so if you're reading it chronologically, he ain't even born yet. So it's like, okay, Ham is the one that did the wrong, but instead of him being cursed, he is firstborn son that's not born yet. Cursed. Why? Well, when you go to Leviticus, chapter 17, it says, to uncover thy father's nakedness is to sleep with thy father's wife, for it is your father's nakedness. And once again, Dr. Michael Heiser. I lean in on a lot of these people. I mean, I have very few original thoughts. I'm just a puzzle piece gatherer, you know, And I try to give credit where credit is due.

[Sean]

I think most people don't have original thoughts.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Oh, yeah. If we're being honest.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Hubris has a lot to play with it sometimes.

[Sean]

Yeah. No, there's a lot of memes about how, like, there's no original thoughts on social media. Like everything we thought of as kids, someone already had.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, It's a biblical thing too. Solomon said, you know, nothing new is under the sun. We will marvel and say, oh, we've discovered this new thing. But no, it is an old thing that's been forgotten and only now being, you know, rediscovered. But in that story, I was like, okay, he slept with his mother. Why? Well, Dr. Michael Heiser addressed it, and he said that this was an act of rebellion in the ancient world, as sick as it sounds, but this is how you flexed on your old man back in the day. And he used other biblical examples to prove it. And he said, look at King David and Absalom. Absalom was his son. And Absalom runs David out of the kingdom and takes over. Well, his first act of business, it says he pitches a tent on David's house and goes into all of David's concubines. Excuse me, in the side of all of Israel. And then again, you see it with Reuben to take over the household, he sleeps with his father's concubine. So this was repeated and proven that this was an act of rebellion back then. And it makes sense with the cursings now, with that context, because if you're trying to assert your dominance and take over the household, you want everybody to serve you, right? So the cursing, he gets the exact opposite. Instead of him being served and his lineages being served, no, they will in fact be serving the other brothers. But then he says, cursed be Canaan, a servant to thy brothers Shem and Japheth he shall be. And I was like, they're not brothers. That Canaan is the nephew. Shem and Japheth would be his uncle. The only way they could be brothers is if, oh, my God, they had the same mother. So that act of rebellion sown an incest seed line. Wow. And that's why Canaan was cursed. He said he'd be a cursed lineage. And I was like, yeah, man, that makes a lot more sense. And then the garments are in that story, but they're hidden in the original languages. Wow.

[Sean]

Holy crap.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Okay, so in that story, it says that Shem and Japheth refused the rebellion, and that they take a garment and place on their backs, walk backwards, and cover their father's nakedness. So when you go to the original languages, it doesn't say a garment. It has a definite article assigned to it. So it says they took the garment, walked backwards, covered their father's nakedness. So it even makes perfect sense theologically. He's trying to rebel. He's trying to take over the power position. So then they symbolically take the crown, refuse the rebellion, and place it back upon their father. So it's just mind blowing.

[Sean]

That is nuts.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And like I said, I've been called a heretic and false teacher, all this kind of stuff. But, man, just like, I'm just reading all the historical accounts and books and putting the pieces together. And yeah, it's not what you've typically been told, but it makes a lot more sense.

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[Sean]

We got to track down where these garments are these days.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, I'd say I've been asked that too.

[Sean]

Where does the trail end there?

[Justin Doc Brown]

And that's. We don't know. So it's all speculative. But once you. It's like the blue Honda, you know, you never see the blue Honda until you buy one.

[Sean]

Yeah. Reticular.

[Justin Doc Brown]

You see them everywhere.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So once I was aware of these garments, I got to looking through the text and man, there, it's littered out throughout the text. So it's there at the uncovering of Noah's nakedness. It's given to Nimrod. And then the deception, Jacob stealing the birthright. You know, I mentioned it briefly earlier that they pretended to be Esau, killed a goat, served the meat to their father, and then put a goatskin around him to make him think it was Esau. And the garments are in there, but it's so subtle, you'll miss it if you're not paying attention. So it's like the final cherry on top. And I think it just affirms the book of Jasher. It says that Rebecca then takes the time and goes into Esau's tent and places on him Esau's special garments. So I think that's what those were. Wow. And trying to think Elijah, he's the famous story. He was taken up into a whirlwind. Right. The chariots of heaven. It says that his mantle is all that remained. What's the Hebrew word? Canon. It. And it Says that Elisha takes the mantle, goes to the Jordan river and slaps it onto the river, and that the waters part and let him walk across on dry land. So I was like, I think that could be the garments. That famous story of Joseph. Once again, the wording is just like the one with Nimrod. Remember I said Cush said that Nimrod was the child of his old age whom he loved exceedingly and bestowed upon him the garments. Book of. Can't remember it's Genesis still. But Joseph says that Israel, that Jacob was the child of his old age. It specifically says it, the child of his old age, whom he loved exceedingly, and he gave him a coat of many colors. And when you go to Ezekiel 28, that's the condemnation to the king of Tyre. But the language changes and it's talking to Satan, the spirit behind the king. He says, every precious stone was your covering. Barrel, onyx, topaz, Jasper onyx, you know, and all this stuff. Gold was your inlays. And they were perfect. Today you were created and you were beautiful in all your ways until iniquity was found in you. Well, that's another Polaroid picture of the priestly ephod with the 12 stones. That would definitely be, you know, many colored garment, you know, So I think that's what they're talking about there. And I think it's painting Satan before the fall as a priest. He has on the ephod. And then if there's any doubt, just a verse or two down, it eliminates all doubt. It says that he also had a sanctuary and that he profaned his sanctuary. And so I think the garments were this ephod and it was the coverings of the naacash. And at the fall, he was stripped of his position, kicked out. The garments were taken from him and given to Adam. So he was given dominion. And he was the first king and priest of all creation. So those garments were originally Satan's.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And that alone gives you a reason why Satan hates you so much, because Timothy Alberino just had him on. Yeah, he changed my perspective on a lot of things, especially the birthright in the family. He's like, if you look at the family aspect, the angelic race are the elder brothers. They were created first. We are the younger brother. And he said, so his position of authority was taken away and it was given to the younger brother. And throughout the Bible, time and time again, it's like microcosms. The stories within the stories, the micro narratives. There's always twins. Yeah, there's always brothers. And who does God favor every single time? The younger brother? Us. Humanity.

[Sean]

Interesting.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And we're walking around with his authority and the garment. So, yeah, he hates you. He wants back what was taken from him. So getting all that context and stuff, dude, it was just life changing, honestly. And then I think the last time we see them is in the book of Revelation. It talks about Christ coming back, and it says that he has on this beautiful garment, and it describes this garment and that it's soaked in blood up to the bridle. Well, that mirrors back to Joseph, because when he was given this coat of many colors, all of a sudden he starts having supernatural dreams and visions. He says, the wheat of the field bow before me. The stars of heaven, which was symbolically the angelic host, bow before me. And then he looks at his brothers and he says, and you, my brothers, you also bow before me and serve me. And so they're like, hell, no. So that's the story where they rip the garment from him, they soak it in blood, and they trade him off to Egypt to slave traders. And he returns with the garment soaked in blood. Oh, this is all that's left of your son. So the Jewish people, they hold to two messiahs. They have the messiah being Yoseph and then their returning, conquering king. But the Jewish people reject Christ as their Messiah. So I think theologically, in that book of Revelation, he's pointing back to Joseph, the one that they do believe in and holding such high regardless. And now Christ has on the supernatural garments, the crown, the symbol of kingship and priesthood, and it's soaked in blood, just like Joseph's was. And on the thigh says, king of Kings and Lord of Lords. So I think that that is those garments. And he comes back and he's trying to signal to his people, hey, this guy that you hold in such high regard, look, I'm the successor. I'm the one coming. And even scripture tells you Jesus was the second Adam because the first one screwed it up.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

I mean, it all fits hand in glove, man. It's a beautiful story if you take their perspective and look at these stories and these narratives within the Bible in their proper context.

[Sean]

Yeah, you're not going to learn this at church. No, you're not. This is like taking it next level, I feel like.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, And I think that's what we're told to do, man. If you get into scripture, you know, it says in Proverbs that it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but it is the glory of kings to search things out. Jesus taught in parables.

[Sean]

Right.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So he didn't just come right out and spell it for you?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And even some of the stories he was telling, even his apostles didn't know what he was talking about, you know, and one of the stories, I can't remember his Matthew, but they came back after the sermon and they're like, you know, rabbi, you know, what was the meaning of this story you told so that they didn't even get it? And Jesus looked at him, he said, I speak to them in parables because to them, the mystery has not been given. But to you, the mystery has been given. And still you ask me, rabbi, Rabbi, what is the meaning of this? So there's lots of symbolism and lots of esoteric stuff in the Bible that you have to dig and find out. Now, is it detrimental to your faith and salvation? No, I think he made that stuff so simple, a child can understand it. But for people like me and you, Shawn, that want to go deeper, we have to know these things and go digging. He's planted, I believe, lots of little treasure troves and boxes of treasure with lots of gold nuggets for us to go and seek them.

[Sean]

Yeah, there's all sorts of rabbit holes in the Bible. There's Even takes that UFOs are mentioned in aliens.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And to me, that's just a perspective, too. And that's something I learned from Timothy Albert, you know, to know. You know, he said, we get hung up on verbiage. I had him on the show while back, and he was talking about that, and he said, yeah, he said, God, the devil, angels, demons, all of these things. He said, textbook definition. They're not of this world, so it would not be wrong to call them extraterrestrial or alien. He said, it's just perspective and verbiage. He said, but the story is the same.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. People get caught up in definitions and meanings of words, and they use that to, like, argue. But it's all, like, irrelevant, right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. Well, even Shakespeare, you know, he says, you know, what is in a name if you're looking at it? I say, that's a beautiful red rose over there. And you're like, oh, no, that's a beautiful red orchid. And I'm like, no, it's a rose. You're like, it's an orchid. And next thing you know, we're screaming at each other and we've lost the whole reason of the beautiful thing that we were looking at and appreciating.

[Sean]

True.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Because we're so Prideful and want to argue to who's right.

[Sean]

That's why I'm careful with labels.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

A lot of people label themselves a certain religion, a certain political affiliation and I think it kind of boxes you in.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Oh, it does.

[Sean]

You know it does. Because then you can't have other perspectives, you know.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, it does. It pins you down. And I tell people I love talking to people that have other religious beliefs than me. I love looking into these other comparative mythologies and things like that to see what rhymes. I think that all of us have pieces to the point puzzle, Sean.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Not one person has it all figured out, not one religion has it all figured out. So we need to have these conversations, we need to exchange these puzzle pieces and put together this mosaic so we have a better understanding. A 30,000 foot view of this thing, what we call life. And if you think you got it all figured out and the people around you all do, you're just going to remain ignorant your whole life because you're only fooling yourself. And it's just a shame to be that narrow minded and put yourself in that kind of box for sure. Even the stuff that we've talked about today, I've jokingly, half jokingly, mainly serious, tell people, I'm like, okay with what we're talking about here. Let's just put ourselves into it, in our culture, our worldview. If for some reason some kind of cataclysm happened to America and buried us under hundreds of feet of soil, wipes out our civilization, A thousand years or two later, an archaeologist comes over here, starts digging and he finds this great big book and it's called the Histories of America. They're like, okay, this has got everything in it. It's all here. No, it's not. And then beside, they find a Cosmopolitan magazine, they find a Sports Illustrated magazine, they find a New Yorker, throw whatever label you want on it. I hope that those archaeologists don't take the perspective and opinion of most modern Christians and I'm alluding to the extra biblical text and stuff that we've been talking about today. I hope that the archaeologist doesn't have their worldview and be like, oh, that's of the devil. Burn it, throw it away, don't read it. Everything we need to know is in this Histories of America. Look how big this thing is. It's like, no, I mean, are those magazines the History of America? No, but by reading those you're going to get a lot better view of us as a people. What we believed, how we were dressing, what we Were eating all these type of things. That's going to help you better understand that histories of America. So I think that's how I look at these texts and gathering these pieces.

[Sean]

That makes sense. Are you working on another book right now or another series or anything?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yep, I got a couple books in my head. I just recently went full time now, so now I have the time to write books and do more documentaries and stuff. I've filmed a couple documentaries. I just have to piece them together. But I got a couple in my head. But I think my next one, it was actually a suggestion from one of my listeners. They were listening to the show and I did a show on. On Earth as it is in Heaven and showing all the mirrored images and stuff throughout the Bible. And they were like, oh, this is fascinating. This. You should do a book on this. And I'm like, that would be pretty cool.

[Sean]

So Earth on Heaven.

[Justin Doc Brown]

You said on earth as it is in heaven.

[Sean]

So you believe heaven is here on earth or.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, like. Like mirrored images. And once again, that's a cultural context. So, like, for instance, the building of the tabernacle. God gives Moses all these instructions to. To do these things, and he tells him these are reflections of the bigger, real thing in heaven. So the temple is supposed to reflect the heavenly temple, this ephod that they were told to make and wear mirror images. The priest in heaven, what he wears. And it says that the inner sanctum, the holiest of holies, is gated up. It's boxed off. That's where the presence of God is. That is the Garden of Eden. And it says that to get in there, they have these huge curtains and has the cherubim depicted standing there. Well, it says that the cherubim guard the way to the tree of Life. So you have to get through the cherubim to get into the holiest of holies, Eden. So all these things were mirrored images of what was going on in heaven, like a shadow. When Moses talks about the stages of building those, it says that there were six stages. Well, it is mirroring creation. And in the seventh and final stage, it says that God, his presence come and rested in the tabernacle. Well, that is a mirrored image reflection of creation. There were six days of creation, right? And on the seventh day, he rested. Ain't that he kicked his feet up on the table and watched the football game? No, he resided. His presence was there within his creation. And so those things were mirrored images of each other. Because what God is creating to the ancient viewpoint was earth. Earth is what It's a temple. But what does every temple have? Every temple has an image of the God. We're told in Genesis that we are made in the image of God. So that's why we make no graven images, because we are the images humanity. But then Exodus says that his people, Israel, is the nation of priests. So that's the other thing. A temple has to have a priest. And so we have that with creation. And so it's just all those little fun things that you see, even down to the encampment in Exodus. Yeah, it talks about so many people of this tribe was on the left hand side. So many people. This tribe was on the right hand side. So many people. This on the north end, and it lays it out. It's a cross. In the middle is the holiest of holies, the tabernacle, where the presence of God resides. Well, when you go into Genesis, when Israel is giving his blessings to his children, the four that are mentioned on the outside are referred to as animals in that blessing. One was an eagle, one was a bull, one was. I can't remember all of them now, but it was basically the four faces of the cherubim. So on earth as it is in heaven, those were constellations, those animals.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So it was the four cardinal points of the Babylonian zodiac. So it was a mirrored image of heaven with the holiest of holies in the center. And once again, so cool. On the day of atonement, they would do the sacrifice and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat. And only the Levites knew the personal name of God. The Tetragrammaton, the Yod. Hey, vav. Hey. Right. Well, when you go into the ancient pictorial writings that says, behold the hand. Symbolically, behold the hand. Behold the nail. Christ. Behold the hand. Behold the nail. The sacrifice. On the day of atonement, the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat. And they said this name in the middle of the four constellations, the Babylonian zodiac, the center of all time and space. So it's just beautiful imagery. And there's so many more. I don't want to bore you with them, but there's a lot there.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's impressive that you can connect these dots, man.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And like I said, I mean, it ain't me, it's other people that I've read, but it's just like I said, everybody has pieces.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So it's like the more books you read on, on the same subject, and I like this guy's idea, but I don't really like that idea. But this guy, he got it wrong where he got it right. But I agree with this other piece.

[Sean]

Right.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And so I just kind of put them together and man, if the shoe fits, I'll wear it.

[Sean]

That's why I love reading books, because you kind of take a little bit from everyone, right. And then you take the best of the best. I mean, these guys are putting their life's work into one book. So if you can take a little key bits here and there, it's good. You mentioned Israel a few times. Have you been there yet to explore all the historical sites?

[Justin Doc Brown]

No, I want to, so I will before I die.

[Sean]

Yeah, Yeah. A lot of history over there. Oh, yeah, man. I love. I love museums and history like that.

[Justin Doc Brown]

That was my favorite subject in school. Yeah, same here. You mix Bible and ancient lore and legends, lost civilizations with the mythology and history, man. Oh, yeah.

[Sean]

I feel like there's so much history that's not taught or unknown or suppressed even, you know.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah, 100%. And I tell people this is another thing that gets me labeled a heretic. But I think that the Bible is very important. I think, like I said earlier, made salvation so easy. A child could understand because that was the important thing. But not everything is in there, you know, so we hear about a creation, a flood, and at the end destroyed by fire. So when you go across the other cultures and countries and stuff, they all talk about similar things. There was a flood and that is going to end with a fire. The Mayans, the Hindus, so many other people groups that talk about like we're in the fourth world or fifth world, you know, fourth or fifth reset. I think that's plausible and I think that's why we find out of place artifacts. That's why the timeline is so messed up. I think we've been through several resets and just because the Bible doesn't say that, doesn't mean it's not true.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And to me, that it would make sense of a lot of other ambiguous things.

[Sean]

I think there's been at least like two or three.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Like undeniable at this point. So the Bible doesn't say any reset at all.

[Justin Doc Brown]

It just talks about the flood. Okay, so one reset and at the end with the Revelation and fire. And what's crazy is all the other religions too, they talk about the last one is by fire. Also the Hindus talk about it, the Maya, all of them. So once again, that's another story that rhymes.

[Sean]

I mean, I've had on a lot of ancient civilization experts, so I feel like there was Definitely a reset before the one the Bible's talking about, personally.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And it makes sense why there's so much forgotten history, too, in my opinion. Mm. Because if we take that viewpoint, we know that if something were to happen, some kind of great cataclysm, we're a pretty advanced civilization right now. But the people that are going to survive this cataclysm are going to be your good old boys and girls.

[Sean]

Yeah. People in the rainforest that know how

[Justin Doc Brown]

to plant crops, how to hunt, how to live off the land and survive.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Do you think those people know how to build a computer?

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

No.

[Justin Doc Brown]

You think those people know how to make AI and GMOs and just all this, you know, stuff that we have now? That's why I think the stuff gets lost and we get these resets because the people that survive are the ones that know how to survive. You know, they don't know. They're not engineers and architects know how to do all this stuff. So. Yeah, it takes a long time to get us back there. And I think that's what Solomon was alluding to. He said, nothing new's under the sun. Will marvel and say this is a new thing, but, no, it's something that's been forgotten and now being rediscovered.

[Sean]

Some of those tribes are still around, which is crazy to me. You know, they've survived this long without modern technology or anything. It's unreal.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And even, like, when you go to Egypt, all those depictions of, like, planes and light bulbs, and the archaeologists found the Baghdad Battery.

[Sean]

Yeah. I mean, that was the thing underneath, right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Well, yeah. Like, they found these little, like, clay jars.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And inside of them, they had, like, a jar inside of a jar with, like, a copper inductor.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Wow.

[Justin Doc Brown]

And that they would put, like, vinegar or something like that with it. And it was a battery. Power things.

[Sean]

Back then, they had that.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

They thought. We thought they were using, like, fire, right?

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Candles. But who knows what they had back then.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Yeah. I mean, we don't know, but we dig and we find that clearly in the. The fossil record and in the dirt. So they were using it.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, where can people watch your show, man, and support you and all that?

[Justin Doc Brown]

I mean, I appreciate you having me, dude. Absolutely love the opportunity to sit down and talk with you. But, yeah, as far as, like, my show, it's called the Prometheus Lens podcast. Make sure you put podcast because it'll pull up that famous Destiny game and that gun.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Justin Doc Brown]

So there was a little inspiration there. But, yeah, Prometheus Lens podcast anywhere you can consume content. You can find me there. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the things. Same thing with social media. Cool. Brand new website. Prometheus. Lenspodcast.com you can get my book on there. If you get directly from me, you get a signed copy and you get a sticker pack and some other little goodies, so. Or you can just go to Amazon. It's 20 bucks for the physical copy, 10 for the digital. And I just released the audible book too. And no, no AI junk. You get this. Southern.

[Sean]

You ready yourself? Let's go. I'll listen to it on a good old 2x speed. Probably take me 4 or 5 hours.

[Justin Doc Brown]

I'm kind of slow. Oh yeah, I'm slow talk.

[Sean]

I could do three on some people, but people that talk fast. I do like 1 5, you know. Oh yeah, but you are a bit slow. So yeah, two maybe two five with you. Yeah, you're very slow and eloquent.

[Justin Doc Brown]

I think you sell yourself short.

[Sean]

You do three maybe. Well, thanks for coming on, man. That was awesome.

[Justin Doc Brown]

Thank you, man.

[Sean]

Thanks for coming out to Vegas. Good seeing you.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Check them out, guys.

[Sean]

Peace. Thanks for watching to the end, guys.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Please comment below your thoughts on the

[Sean]

episode if you agree. If you disagree, I'd love to hear. I read every single comment. Means a lot to me. Thank you so much.