Transforming Waste into Clean Energy | Eden Energy DSH #1287

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Transforming Waste into Clean Energy | Eden Energy DSH #1287

Release Date: April 1, 2025

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jonathan Appel, Co-Founder of Eden Energy

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Introduction

In episode #1287 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an in-depth conversation with Jonathan Appel from Eden Energy. The discussion centers on Eden Energy’s groundbreaking technology that transforms waste into clean energy, addressing critical issues such as plastic pollution, energy inefficiency, and environmental degradation. This episode delves into the intricacies of Eden Energy's processes, the challenges they've overcome, and their vision for a sustainable future.

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Eden Energy's Revolutionary Technology

Jonathan Appel begins by explaining the core mechanism of Eden Energy's technology:

Jonathan Appel [00:00]: "The hydrolysis is you oxidize and neutralize heavy metals. You break down pathogens. So we did a study with the DoD in the early days of New York State Department of Health where we ran tests on Bacillium, Streptomyces, and anthrax. And it's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen destruction on those pathogens."

This innovative approach utilizes water under pressure to generate free hydrogen, which breaks down carbon bonds at the molecular level, effectively converting various forms of carbon-based waste—including plastics, dog waste, food waste, and used cooking oil—into usable energy. Unlike traditional methods, Eden Energy's system doesn't discriminate based on the type or contamination level of the waste, making it exceptionally versatile.

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Addressing Plastic Pollution

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on plastic pollution and the inefficacy of current recycling methods:

Jonathan Appel [01:10]: "For sure. And we finally have a solution to plastic. I mean, there really isn't one out there that is currently being utilized that actually gets rid of it down at the molecular level."

Appel critiques conventional recycling, noting that approximately 95% of recyclables end up either landfilled or incinerated rather than being truly recycled. Eden Energy’s technology overcomes these limitations by breaking down plastics at the molecular level, ensuring complete conversion into clean energy without residual pollutants.

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Comparative Analysis with Pyrolysis and Gasification

Eden Energy's technology is contrasted with pyrolysis and gasification, highlighting superior efficiency and environmental benefits:

Jonathan Appel [06:05]: "Pyrolysis is a bird scooter, we're a Rolls Royce. You can get from A to B, but you're riding in a little bit different style."

Appel emphasizes that pyrolysis suffers from low energy efficiency (10-20%) and generates toxic byproducts like tar and ash, which exacerbate pollution. In contrast, Eden Energy achieves over 90% energy efficiency through its water-based, hydrogen-centric process, effectively eliminating pollutants and producing high-purity energy outputs.

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Environmental Impact and Pathogen Neutralization

The technology not only converts waste into energy but also addresses environmental toxins and pathogens:

Jonathan Appel [38:25]: "So, that was right as the whole anthrax scare was happening. And with our military connections, they wanted to see make sure if there really was like a major attack and they had to dispose of this, they had a solution and they did."

Eden Energy's system can neutralize heavy metals and destroy 100% of pathogens, making it suitable for processing medical and infectious waste. This capability was validated through studies with the Department of Defense and the New York State Department of Health, ensuring robust and safe waste reclamation.

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Personal Journey and Collaboration with His Father

Jonathan Appel shares his entrepreneurial journey, deeply influenced by his father, the founding EVP of Ticketmaster:

Jonathan Appel [03:03]: "I've been walking down this path together since 1997. We've had some really cool successes over the years in advancing this technology."

Appel attributes the inception of Eden Energy's technology to a combination of scientific inquiry and visionary guidance inspired by nature. Their collaboration has spanned decades, culminating in the current readiness to bring the technology to the global market.

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Challenges and Setbacks Over Three Decades

The path to Eden Energy’s current success was fraught with challenges:

Jonathan Appel [20:07]: "Eden is actually the third company that we're going to be building to roll this out. The first company was Changing World Technologies... but we had to walk away from our own business."

From attempting an IPO just before the 2008 market crash to navigating economic turmoil in Turkey following a failed coup in 2016, Appel recounts a series of obstacles that tested their resilience. Despite setbacks, the ownership of the technology remained with his father, allowing Eden Energy to persevere and innovate continuously.

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Future Plans and Strategic Partnerships

Looking ahead, Eden Energy has ambitious plans to scale and partner with major corporations:

Jonathan Appel [35:08]: "We're going to look for a top tier CFO and make sure that we have all of our financials in order because we are going to look to tokenize these systems as far as their energy and CO2 credits…"

Eden Energy is preparing to expand manufacturing globally, targeting regions in South America, Africa, and Indonesia. They aim to collaborate with industry giants like Coca-Cola to utilize vast amounts of plastic waste for energy production. Additionally, the company is exploring advanced battery technologies, such as graphene-based batteries, to complement their energy solutions.

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Environmental and Societal Insights

Appel provides critical insights into broader environmental challenges, challenging prevalent narratives around CO₂ and renewable energy:

Jonathan Appel [29:25]: "CO2 was always higher, over a thousand for most of the planet's history. And life thrived."

He argues that the primary environmental threat is not CO₂ but the pervasive pollution from plastics, pesticides like glyphosate, and heavy metals. Eden Energy's technology addresses these issues by converting pollutants into harmless or even beneficial products like organic fertilizers, thereby restoring environmental balance.

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Innovations in Water Purification

Another key feature of Eden Energy's system is its ability to produce clean water:

Jonathan Appel [40:43]: "We are a net water producer. So if you think of garbage, garbage is about 50 to 60% water. ... So all that water usually just evaporates and goes away. Now you're able to capture it."

Their partnership with a cutting-edge wastewater technology company allows Eden Energy to convert captured water into 98% drinkable water, significantly outperforming traditional Reverse Osmosis (RO) systems. This integration provides communities with sustainable water solutions alongside energy production.

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Health and Lifestyle Implications

Appel touches on the detrimental effects of modern lifestyle choices and environmental toxins on human health:

Jonathan Appel [42:32]: "Birth control in the water is really wrecking havoc on men… my testosterone levels... are sub 400."

He emphasizes the pervasive impact of chemicals like fluoride and birth control agents on both human health and ecosystems, advocating for cleaner water and environments through technologies like those developed by Eden Energy.

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Call to Action and Final Thoughts

In closing, Appel expresses a strong commitment to promoting Eden Energy's mission:

Jonathan Appel [45:23]: "We're very good friends with those guys and I believe our marketing team is also going to be using TikTok… We're going to start doing some really active recruiting to bring on some really, really big players."

Appel encourages listeners to connect with Eden Energy through various social media platforms and underscores the company's dedication to transforming waste into clean energy, ultimately aiming to restore ecological harmony and provide sustainable energy solutions worldwide.

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Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a comprehensive exploration of Eden Energy's transformative approach to waste management and clean energy production. Through Jonathan Appel's insightful explanations and personal anecdotes, listeners gain a deep understanding of the technology's potential to revolutionize environmental practices and address some of the most pressing challenges of our time. Eden Energy stands as a beacon of innovation, showcasing how persistent effort and visionary thinking can lead to meaningful global impact.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Appel [00:00]: "It's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen destruction on those pathogens."
• Jonathan Appel [06:05]: "Pyrolysis is a bird scooter, we're a Rolls Royce."
• Jonathan Appel [31:57]: "Some models are insane. We built out a 1500 ton per day model for an island... 220% IRR."
• Jonathan Appel [38:25]: "Our system is a complete waste reclamation technology. We're able to take all the compounds and everything that's in the waste and capture it in a form that's a viable product."
• Jonathan Appel [45:23]: "Explain things from the scientific perspective that I've been so blessed have the opportunity to learn."

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Connect with Eden Energy:

• Instagram & LinkedIn: Jonathan Appel / Jonathan Appel on LinkedIn
• Eden Energy Instagram: @EdenEnergy
• Eden Energy on X (formerly Twitter): @EdenEnergyX

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For more insights and updates on transformative technologies and sustainable solutions, subscribe to Digital Social Hour and stay tuned for future episodes featuring trailblazers across various industries.

Transcript

[Jonathan Appel]

The hydrolysis is you oxidize and neutralize heavy metals. You break down pathogens. So we did a study with the DoD in the early days of New York State Department of Health where we ran tests on bacillium, Streptomopolis and anthrax. And it's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen destruction on those pathogens.

[Host]

Wow. All right, guys, we're talking energy. Today we got Jonathan from Eden Energy. Thanks for joining us, man.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Host]

Just had a fun event in Austin.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, it was a. It was a great time having you guys there and got to meet a lot of really cool and interesting people and tell our story a little bit and looking forward to telling a little bit more.

[Host]

Yeah, you set some stuff on fire over there, right?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, we. We bought some of the fuel we made, and we make fuel from anything carbon based. And that specific sample was made with like mixed pool plastics, dog poop, food waste, used cooking oil, things like that. And we did a little burn ceremony where we asked the audience to write down what they want to let go of and we put it in the fire pit, covered it in oil, and let those energies go into the atmosphere.

[Host]

Yeah. With all the plastic going around the atmosphere, we need that right now, right?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, for sure. And we finally have a solution to plastic. I mean, there really isn't one out there that is currently being utilized that actually gets rid of it down at the molecular level. I mean, yeah, sure, you can pyrolyze it and turn it into a. Basically a liquid plastic, which is a subset of fuels, but nothing really cleans up the mess that is in place. And we can do that because we break things down at the molecular level.

[Host]

Yeah. Why is plastic so dangerous?

[Jonathan Appel]

You know, plastic is a. Is a tough one because there's all sorts of different compounds that they use, such as plasticizers and fillers and. And they're all different. Right. You have PET, which is made from CO2 condensation reaction. So there's ton of CO2 in water bottles. Right. The PL plastic that they use there. But then the plastic that you get, like your laundry detergent, that's what they call high density polyethylene. Right. Hdpe. And that's almost all oil. Right. There's no condensation reactions using that. So plastic is really difficult because you can't really recycle it. Right. Recycling is such a head fake. People believe that when they throw things away in the recycling bin, it's actually getting recycled when 95% of what goes into the recycling bin doesn't end up recycled. It either gets landfilled or incinerated.

[Host]

Wow. So how does that process work?

[Jonathan Appel]

Which one?

[Host]

Like when you recycle something, does it go to a separate facility?

[Jonathan Appel]

Oh, sure. I mean, a lot of times it goes to a facility, but let's just say you have a bottle that's got some oil traces on it or a label or a different type of cap. You typically can't recycle that because it's either different types of plastics or it's contaminated. Where our system don't. It doesn't care because if it's carbon based, it can convert. So you can have a plastic bottle filled with heavy oil, plastic bottle filled with whatever, vomit for all I care. Right. It's still going to work. It's still going to break it down and convert it into energy.

[Host]

Nice. How'd you come up with this technology? Because it sounds really sophisticated. Right.

[Jonathan Appel]

It's actually a little bit simpler than most people would think. And I can't take credit for coming up with it. That credit belongs to my father. So we've been walking down this path together since 1997. We've had some really cool successes over the years in advancing this technology. But like any new technology, you have a. It's a long road to get it validated and proven and out to the world. And. And now we're finally ready to bring this technology to market. So it's been really amazing. But my father really just looked at what the Earth does. How does the earth make oil? And there's a lot of misconceptions out there that people believe oil is millions of years old when it's. Some of it could be, but it's not. Right. And our technology proves that, because our technology is simply a reverse engineering of Mother Nature. Using heat, pressure, time and water to break things down at the molecular level, using free hydrogen as a catalyst to break down carbon bonds. Yeah.

[Host]

I remember growing up, they taught us oil was from dinosaur bones. Yeah, that's a myth.

[Jonathan Appel]

I mean, yes and no. It's. Well, first off, it wouldn't be from the bones anyway. Right. It would be from the organic. Right. Bones are made of calcium, so that's not really a carbon based compound where oil is just carbon and hydrogen. Right. But yeah, I mean, a lot of the organic material went underneath the surface of the earth. Once it gets down there, heat, pressure and time break it down. So, sure, you could have oil sitting in reserves that's millions of years old, but oil is constantly being Rejuvenated as it's always being created. Right. It's a constant reaction taking place place in the mantle of our earth.

[Host]

We should throw up some clips of the demo of how your stuff works on the video too.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, we can definitely do that. Yeah, we've got some really cool footage.

[Host]

Get a visual of it.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

How big is it?

[Jonathan Appel]

Well, we build systems ranging in size from 2 tons per day, which is a 53 foot trailer and a 20 foot trailer. Right. For your control station, all the way up into the tens of thousands of tons a day, which is a full blown refinery that would take up 100 plus acres. Right. So we can build these from all shapes and sizes really, depending on the client's need. So that's what we're doing a little bit differently than what we've done in the past. In previous iterations we were plant owners and operators. Right. We ran the facilities, we built them, we paid for them. Now we're doing it a little bit different or we're going to the waste producer as an equipment manufacturer. So we've had a lot of people tell us this is such a disruptive technology. It's amazing. And we have to stop them and say, no, it's not a disruptive technology, it's an industry enhancer. Because now everybody who's producing waste can benefit from their waste by turning it back into clean energy on site. So they're greatly increasing their bottom line by getting rid of their cost for disposal of waste and their cost for purchase of energy. Two birds, one stone.

[Host]

Love it. I've seen some countries have so much waste they ship it to other countries. Have you seen that?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. Yeah. And especially if you look at China. For years and years, China was basically collecting everybody's waste, thinking that they'd be able to figure out how to do what we have. But there really isn't a viable solution that's currently on the market outside of what we do. Because you look at some of these other technologies like pyrolysis or gasification, which very frequently we're compared to, but we're immensely different from both. The simple way I describe it is if, if pyrolysis is a bird scooter, we're a Rolls Royce. Right. You can get from A to B, but you're riding in a little bit different style.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

Pyrolysis is one of those technologies that has been around a really long time. Traces its roots all the way back to the ancient Egyptians. But here's the problem with pyrolysis. There's Two major problems. One, it's completely energy inefficient to make really clean products out of pyrolysis. You're looking at a 10 to 20% energy efficiency at most down. Meaning for every hundred units of energy you make, you need to take 80 to 90 units of that energy to make the next 100. Right. And also pyrolysis doesn't solve pollution. You take it, you take the waste, you put it through pyrolysis, you make energy and more pollution because there's toxic byproducts such as tar and ash, which, which are immensely costly to get rid of. And then the fuels are often heavily loaded with whatever contaminants were in the waste, whether that's chlorinated compounds, dioxins, furans, heavy metals, because it doesn't do anything about them. Right. So you're really not solving pollution with pyrolysis. You're kind of just taking pollution, turning it into energy and more pollution.

[Host]

Yeah, right.

[Jonathan Appel]

Where what we do, we've been third party validated, over 90% efficient. Right. So you take 100 units of energy, you take 10 of those units and you make the next 100.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

So it's significantly higher. Right. And that's because of how we use water. Right. We're a water based technology where pyrolysis is a heat based technology.

[Host]

Yes. You're more hydrogen based or.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, exactly. We are a hydrogen based technology. A lot of people ask us if we can capture it, and we don't try to capture it because that is the magic of what we do. We use water under pressure to create free hydrogen, which breaks down all those molecular compounds. So you're able to break everything down at the molecular level. Now, a lot of your listeners might be familiar with the chemical pesticide glyphosate. Yeah, right. Glyphosate is carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and hydrogen, all compounds we all know. Nitrogen and phosphorus are great fertilizers. Everyone knows oxygen and nitrogen and, and hydrogen. Right. Those are very common, but it's how it's bonded together, which makes it an unnatural construct, which makes it dangerous to us. Now what we do is we go in, we break that down at the molecular level, causing all those elements to become free. We literally turn glyphosate, a harmful pesticide, into an organic nitrogen phosphorus fertilizer.

[Host]

Wow, that's big. Because they haven't been able to figure out how to get rid of glyphosate. Right. It's in the rainwater now, I believe. 80%.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yep.

[Host]

In America it's in.

[Jonathan Appel]

It's in almost everything at this point because it does evaporate.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

So we figured out how to neutralize it and turn it back into a viable product.

[Host]

Damn. There's some big farms that could use this stuff for their crops.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, all the pesticides and everything.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. And look, lifestyle isn't even the worst one. There's one commonly used out there called atrazine, which is why we see so many men around the US with such low testosterone levels, because literally it feminizes you, it brings your testosterone and elevates your estrogen. There's that famous viral Alex Jones clip where he screams, they're turning the frogs gay. And look, he's not turning the frogs gay. But what is happening is those frogs are becoming highly feminized to the point where some male frogs are growing ovaries. So there are chemicals out there that we're using that are just killing us. And now we have a solution to break them down.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. I think hydrogen is going to be the future of energy.

[Jonathan Appel]

Right? In the future. Yeah, for sure. Right now they're going through some issues, figuring out how to easily store it. Right. The biggest issue with hydrogen right now is storage. Like, how do you store it? Because it is just a very light gas, so it's not the easiest to compress and store. Plus it requires a lot of energy to store it. Right. But those are all technologies that we need to be working on. I mean, we're pouring billions upon billions of dollars into R and D. And a lot of these technologies that we're researching, I look at them and I say, why are we wasting our money? We should be spending money on how to store hydrogen better and new and advanced nascent technologies. Because what we're using right now, like wind and solar, they've been shown to be very detrimental to the environment.

[Host]

Really Very. How does wind damage the environment?

[Jonathan Appel]

So when you look at an energy, you can't just look at it from the perspective of how does this make energy? Right. You have to look at its full lifecycle, Right. From manufacturing to. To operations to disposal. And when you analyze the full picture of wind, it's a much different story than the clean energy that everybody talks about. They're 300 plus feet tall, made of metal, fiberglass, dysprosium, all these really insane metals. They require thousands and thousands of gallons of lubricants just to keep spinning. If there's no wind, there's no energy. Tens of thousands of tons of concrete per wind turbine. Then you have to worry about the transmission to get that energy. Because look, I just drove in from Sedona. You're driving through the desert, you see all these wind turbines in the middle of nowhere and it's like, oh, that's great, it's producing energy. But how do you get that energy from A to B? Oh, you build massive infrastructure, you build massive power lines. That's all hydrocarbon energy being used to get these power lines to where they need to be. And then you have to have reliable grid. You can't be relying on a technology that's unreliable to be able to power all the things you need. So all these wind stations, they have backup hydrocarbon energy. So you're building double the infrastructure. So it's, it's not a win, it's not a, not a green technology by any means. The wind might be renewable, but the wind turbines really have no real solution for recycling till now. Right. We can recycle wind turbines, they're almost 40% hydrocarbon from the epoxy. Right. And the, the fiberglass and silica based compounds would just end up in your biochar. But the, they're really not a green tech. Then you talk about battery storage to store the energy. And when you look at battery storage, there's not enough minerals in the world to be able to produce enough power for more than like two or three months worth of energy. So if we relied solely on wind, solar and batteries to power infrastructure, we would be in the dark all the time. Interesting. Yeah.

[Host]

Elon went pretty all in on solar, right?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. Well, you know, solar, I'm not as opposed to as I am winding. Solar definitely has uses. We're going to be installing solar on every single one of our large scale systems on the roof space. But I'm not someone that believes you should be cutting down farmland or trees to be putting in a solar farm. Right. Especially we've seen how fragile those systems are. No sun, right. No energy. You get one bad hailstorm, it can wipe out the entire panels. Right. So there's a lot of issues with solar as far as the solar farms. But solar does have a place in the future of energy. I just personally don't think wind does.

[Host]

Yeah. What about electric? Like all these electric vehicles, you know.

[Jonathan Appel]

The EVs are, that's a tricky one because obviously they have uses. If you are using completely green energy like hydro or nuclear, those are the ones that I do consider green. Right. Even though hydro does have its negative effects on the environment as far as ecosystem shaping. Right. But if you are Using completely green energy. They definitely have benefits. But then it comes down again to the batteries. Right. Where are you sourcing these batteries from? Are you getting the China? Yeah, China. Or even worse, where are the minerals and substrates for those coming? Siddharth Kara did a book called Cobalt Red. Yeah. And it really blew my mind when it came to what cobalt mining looks like and the detriment that these children go through to mine cobalt. I mean, I think there's something estimated like 40,000 children in the DRC that are just basically slaves mining cobalt. So we can play with our phones.

[Host]

Holy crap. Where is that?

[Jonathan Appel]

The Democratic Republic of the Congo.

[Host]

So it says Africa.

[Jonathan Appel]

Sub Saharan Africa, just off the coast. Right in like the middle.

[Host]

Yeah. So what is cobalt needed for in the phones?

[Jonathan Appel]

So cobalt is part of the batteries. It's part of the. Part of the metal. Battery. Metal of the battery that allow for the transmission of the electricity.

[Host]

Geez, I wonder if they'll find an alternative to that.

[Jonathan Appel]

They are, and we're actually looking at some as well. I mean, Eden is going to be rolling out other technologies other than what we're. Other than our Eden Energy systems. And one of the things that we're looking at is a graphene based battery. Right. So carbon based battery that'll have removable anodes and cathodes that once you're finished with the battery, you can take the metal components out, you can drop the battery right into the system and completely recycle.

[Host]

That'd be great because I don't want to buy stuff that child. You know, workers are. I mean, it's hard these days. A lot of stuff, not even just phones or clothes.

[Jonathan Appel]

I mean, I mean, we look at where we've outsourced a lot of our, our factories too, and they really don't have great child labor laws. And you look at China, where they're building the iPhones. I mean, some of these factories put up nets around the factories to prevent people from committing suicide. Because how bad it is, that's how bad it is. So it's one of those things where we got to get back to understanding that corporate giants shouldn't be making the profit margins that they are because people need to be able to live as well. I mean, at the end of the day, I think a lot of people have said it, I've heard, I think some of the people on your podcast say it, But a lot of people are modern day slaves. They just don't realize it because they're getting paid, but they're getting paid just enough to Survive Just over broke job. Yeah. Right.

[Host]

Acronym.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

I try to buy locally as much as I can. I go to farmers markets, and I try to buy from local mom and pops.

[Jonathan Appel]

That's the best way to do it, because you're not only supporting local families and local communities, but you're probably also getting food that's not going to hurt your. Oh, you're good.

[Host]

That's a whole nother podcast.

[Jonathan Appel]

That's a whole different animal.

[Host]

Yeah, man. I got to talk about, like, you and your dad's relationship. Like, have you always worked together?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. So from when you're a young kid and you have a very entrepreneurial, successful father who you firmly believe in, it's very easy to want to follow in his footsteps. My father is the founding EVP of Ticketmaster and did a lot of really cool things and has some classified patents, which led him into having some really cool friends, so to speak. Right. I mean, I grew up having directors of three letter agencies at my house every other weekend and things like that. So it was really amazing place to grow up. But I was that inquisitive kid who was always around, always asking questions. And that's why I think I consider myself the most blessed scientist and entrepreneur on the planet. Just because the experiences I got to have growing up, being surrounded by heads of state and going to all these amazing places. Because when you're an entrepreneur and you're doing something big, one of the lines they say is act like you've been there before. Right, Right. And for me, it's. I don't have to, because I have been there before. I've been in a lot of these situations as a kid. I mean, I remember touring the Oval office at, like, 9 years old because my father was working with the government. Right. I mean, we were doing projects with the DoD and DOE in the early days and DARPA and all these cool things. So it's been a blessing to be able to work with my father because, I mean, a lot of people who have a scientist for a father say their father's one of the smartest men they know. And I don't think my father is one of the smartest men I know. I know he's probably one of the smartest men on the planet. So it's a lot to live up to. It hasn't always been the easiest career path because you have a father who's done as much as he has. He demands a lot. Right. And right out of college, I mean, I had to jump all in. I mean, I basically stopped Having a social life the day I graduated college. And it's just been all science and advancing and making the world a better place ever since.

[Host]

Wow, this stuff is really going to change the world, I think, dude.

[Jonathan Appel]

You know, a lot of people have asked me why have I continued to push this with all the setbacks and the hurdles and everything that we've been through over the last 30 years. And it's because I know what this technology can do for the world. In 1996, before my father set down this path, we were in Mexico and we saw a Mayan shaman. And the Mayan shaman said to my father, he's going to create something to clean up the world. And about a year later, he was in Sedona meeting with the scientists working on thermal depolymerization, which is one of the reaction steps in our process. And that's how all this was born. So it's a. It's a really amazing opportunity to be able to bring something so special to the world and leave a legacy behind.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

We call my father God's janitor and now I call myself Earth's janitor. And I need to make sure that this technology gets to the world because the world so desperately needs it.

[Host]

I love that. That's beautiful, man. Wow. Mind shaman.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

I never knew those existed.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. He's a 6 foot 5 Irish guy who considers himself Mayan. He can read the hieroglyphics, wears a boar tooth carving of Kukulkan, who is the Mayan, the main God of the Mayans, the feathered serpent God. The Aztecs called him Quetzalcoatl. But yeah, we've spent a lot of time in the Yucatec, Tulum especially. I mean, my family's been going to Tulum since the late 80s. It was the scientific capital, really, of the Mayas, where the medicine men and the shamans lived. So we spent a lot of time in Tulum. My sister about a decade ago did a documentary called the Dark side of Tulum. So the Mayans really have a major role in what we're doing because they were the original environmentalists. Right. They. The Yucatec is as fruitful as it is because the Mayans cultivated food forests all over the Yucatec. And now it just grows naturally. So it's really, it's an amazing place. And the jungle is home, which is why I call Miami home. Only place in the continental US I can get the jungle.

[Host]

Yeah. I love that you mentioned hurdles earlier. What were the biggest setbacks and hurdles throughout this 30 year journey sure.

[Jonathan Appel]

So Eden is actually the third company that we're going to be building to roll this out. The first company was Changing World Technologies, did a lot of really great stuff. Tried to go Public in 2008 and the IPO released the day before the market crashed. Timing, yeah, that was just one of those things where you're just like, dang. But we restructured, we reorganized. Then in 2012 saw the biofuel market collapse and that led to some hurdles with the board and we ended up having. With everything that went on, we had to walk away from our own business. But thankfully my father owned the technology outright. So we got all the rights to the technology back. I mentioned the Mayans the same day. A group out of Turkey the same day. We got all the rights back, which was actually my father's birthday in 2, 2013. We got all the rights back. This group called us, a company called Maya. So we were like, oh, that's got to be fate. We did some research together. And after the research at Lehigh University, they were all in. We formed a worldwide joint venture. I moved to Istanbul. I lived there about five years. That's where I met Ghost Day, who's here in the room with us. She's our co founder at Eden and also my wife and I spent five years living over there. Advancing the technology even further. We built a small version of what we call version two of the technology to demonstrate that we can process everything at once in an energy efficient way. We proved that out. We designed a 1,500 ton per day system for the city of Istanbul. We finished that design in May of 2016. And then in July of 2016, there was a failed coup d'etat and the country has seen extreme economic turmoil ever since. By 2008, pretty much everything was mothballed down. I moved back to the US with GOES Day, got involved in a stem cell startup, helped build that company. And then the pandemic kind of put things in a different perspective for me. So how really evil the biomedical industry was and realized that it was not a career path for me. I needed to do something different. So around April of 2021, I got connected to a guy starting a regenerative agriculture company. And I thought it was great. Jumped all in. Goes. They joined a couple days after I did. As one of the founding partners. We built that company for about a year and a half. And then an opportunity arose for me to start fresh, brand new with everything that I had learned from my family's tech, start a new company with a new business model. And I started putting together the pieces. I called John Shaw, who was basically with my father since 2002 as one of our main guys. He ran and basically built and rebuilt our large facility that we built. We built a 250 ton per day in 2002 to process Butterball turkey waste. Right. The blood, the guts, the bones, the feathers, things like that, the turkey slaughter. And I called him and I didn't even get a chance to actually ask him to come back in. He kind of just went, well, where do you want me? And from that moment, we just kept pushing. About six months later, I got introduced to one of our other partners, Joe Shopping. And we just kept running and gunning. And now we're here and we're ready to start building and manufacturing. We've got manufacturing all teed up, ready to go. We've got all of our system designs ready to rock and roll. And we just hired back as our chief Technology officer, Sean Jones, who was one of my father's main engineers for over a decade. So I get to bring in now an engineer as my CTO who could teach me the engineering on the system.

[Host]

Let's go. Everything comes back full circle.

[Jonathan Appel]

Everything comes back full circle. So you, Eden, is ready to really make a significant difference in this world. And we've got so much going on. I mean, right now I'm up at 5 o'clock most days and I go to bed around 10 and there really is no time where I'm not working. And thankfully my wife is also one of the partners. So if I'm working at 8:00 at night, she's not yelling at me because chances are she's in the meeting with me.

[Host]

I love that, man. Yeah. You were in Austin for 10 days straight. Ian loved your show. Ian Carroll.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. He looked like he was having a blast.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. You know, I've been a big fan of Ian's for over a year now. I found him randomly about a year ago and I just love how he just lays out everything as facts. Just, he puts everything out there and allows you to formulate your own opinion based on what he does. And that's what I think more news people need to do. But yeah, I saw Ian walk in, I'm like, that's Ian Carroll. So it was pretty cool. We had a really nice drop in and I'm looking forward to connecting with him. Hello.

[Host]

I'd love to see someone like him or Tucker cover the energy crisis.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah. And. And you know, at the end of the day, that's really the only issue that is out there, energy and waste. Right. A lot of people talk about water. There's no water crisis. The world is 70% water. It's an energy crisis because if energy was cheap and abundant, desalinization would be easy. But desalinization right now is expensive because energy is expensive, especially in places where they need desalination, like Cali, where it's over 33 cents a kilowatt there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

Texas, it's like 12 cents a kilowatt.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

So in California, where they really need water. Right. If the energy prices were lower, they wouldn't really need water because you would just set up desalinization plants on the coast and pump it into the inland. But it's just. It's a fortune because of. Of the. The high energy costs.

[Host]

So we need to work on getting that down over there because they have fires every year, so that's not a problem that's going to go away anytime soon.

[Jonathan Appel]

And there's a lot of reasons for the fires. I mean, California historically was not as wet as it is. Right. If you look back at the historical record, California was always an arid climate. And only in the last couple hundred years has it really seen the rainfall that it has been getting. So it's just going back to more of the historical trends. But California also has very strict laws in the books about forest management. And if you don't go in and clean up those forests, then you get all these brush fires that most of the time are started by people. Right. The vast majority of these fires are not naturally occurring. It's somebody at a campfire or somebody throwing something out of the car or intentionally lighting. A lot of fires are intentionally lit. Maybe they're trying to clear brush and it just got out of control or whatever it may be. But yeah, California's definitely got some hurdles, and if they had cheaper energy, they'd be able to get significant water to battle a lot of these fires. But energy in California is the highest in the continental U.S. which is why it's one of our prime targets for our systems.

[Host]

Man, it's high here, too. My. My bill be going up every single month. It's crazy. I don't even use that much energy, but it's. It's probably doubled since I moved here four years ago on my energy bill.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. It's that significant. Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

But Vegas is growing like crazy right now, right?

[Host]

Yeah. Everyone from Cali's leaving, coming here. There's not enough houses here, actually.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Jonathan Appel]

I don't know. How you guys live in the desert?

[Host]

I can't be here full time. I gotta travel. Yeah, you know, I like living at different spots every few months.

[Jonathan Appel]

If you could live, where would you be?

[Host]

Whoa, that's tough. Would I already have enough money to just do whatever?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Probably not in a city then. Cause city, I feel like you live there to just grind and hustle and make your bag. And then I'd want to ideally move out, have like acres of land, tons of animals, on a farm somewhere nice, you know. What about you?

[Jonathan Appel]

Right now I'm looking at finding some land in Homestead, Florida, which is basically the southernmost point. And I do want to set up a homestead there, but I'll probably be south of Miami for the foreseeable future. I mean, I'm not too worried about hurricanes. You build a house that can withstand them and hurricanes. I mean, you hear a lot of talk about hurricanes getting more and more and worse and worse. But again, if you analyze the real historical data, they're actually not. The prevalence is actually very consistent and the major storms. Right. Category three plus has seen no real increase. So there's a lot of information that I see, especially on like Twitter and Instagram, where I see these scientists talking about things like, oh, we're seeing more fires now than ever in human history. And if you expand the graphs, they share a graph that shows from like 1940 to now. And if you expand it to the 1930s, the graph goes crazy up high and right now it's crazy low. Because in the 1930s, you saw more acreage burn than I think in the last 20 years combined or something.

[Host]

But they cut that part out.

[Jonathan Appel]

They cut that part out. It's the same with CO2, right? You have all these guys talking about this CO2 that the world can't handle, over 420 parts per million. If you look back at the historical record, CO2 was always higher, over a thousand for most of the planet's history. And life thrived. CO2 is the most important gas for fertilizer, for plant growth. And yes, it definitely has some warming effect, but CO2 is the gas of life. I was talking with a Scientist probably about 10, 15 years ago, one of my father's mentors. Right. This is when I talk scientists. I mean, this is like head office. And he was explaining to me that if it were not for the Industrial Revolution, where we started burning exorbitant amounts of hydrocarbons and releasing that excess CO2 into the atmosphere, there's a very high likelihood that the CO2 levels would have dropped below the threshold of 150ppm to support plant life. And if that would have happened, all plant life on Earth would have died out, which means everything would have died.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Jonathan Appel]

Right? It would have been a mass extinction like we can't even imagine. Because, because in, prior to the Industrial Revolution CO2 was at 180 parts per million and dropping. Since then we're up to about 420. But the, the number, like the concentration that they put in industrial greenhouses, over a thousand. The ISS is at 5,000. Right. The International Space Station submarines, nuclear subs are 3 to 5,000 ppm. Right. So if human beings can't survive over 420, why do we have these man made structures at such high levels? Why are greenhouses at such high levels? And the CO2 narrative just doesn't make sense to me, especially as someone who's an expert in carbon, right? Our technology is a carbon conversion technology. Now when I say that people are like, oh, what are you, a climate denier? I'm like, no, obviously the climate has major issues. The world is sick, otherwise I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

[Host]

Right?

[Jonathan Appel]

We're trying to restore Eden. That's why it's our name. But I don't think it's CO2. I think it's all the hundreds of millions of tons of chemicals we spray in the land each year. It's all the plastics that are polluting all of our land, it's all the incineration and all this toxic vapors that we're emitting into the atmosphere that are changing all the natural constructs, right? We're destroying our world with pollution and then we're blaming the gas of life on any environmental degradation that we see. And it just doesn't make sense. But again, I mean the world is sick. We have a lot of work that has to get done. But if it's the main, the main concern is pollution, now you actually have a viable solution to it because we can take everything from plastics to food waste to even fracking water, right? The contaminated hydrocarbon water, we can purify it back into a clean source.

[Host]

Do you think there should be more regulation around pollution?

[Jonathan Appel]

You know, regulation is one of those tricky ones that often backfire, right? They put in regulations and then businesses just look at it as a hurdle and they completely avoid doing anything in that world. Right. And it could, it can hurt industry. I think the way that you really get things to change is you have to give people a reason to want to be Better. Right. And because of how efficient our systems are, they are massive profit generators. I mean, if you have high waste disposal costs and high energy costs, I mean, you can be seeing models that have 2,300% IRR and we're afraid to show those clients. Right.

[Host]

Insane.

[Jonathan Appel]

If I tell some of these models are insane. We built out a 1500 ton per day model for an island. Yeah. And islands are some of the best targets because they have nowhere to get the waste and energies are through the roof. We built out this 1500 ton per day model for the island. That's a $200 million system, Chief. The electricity cost was over 40 cents a kilowatt and they were paying over $75 a ton for waste disposal. The model on that system without credits and incentives was like 220% IRR, meaning that in year one, they're bringing in almost 400 million in production profit without credits and incentives just on that facility because they're taking their stored waste. Right. And turning it into clean energy. And that's one of the things we look forward to changing. Waste is a human construct. Right. Waste is. It's. It's like the definition of a weed. Was the definition of a weed. A plant out of place. Right. Waste is something that we can't currently use in its current form. But if you have a whole ton of plastic and someone's looking at that, oh, that's going to pollute the environment. I look at it and say, oh, that's a crap ton of energy that we can just turn into fuels to make clean energy from. So it's really all perspective. So waste is one of these human constructs that we look forward to changing because waste is no longer waste, but a commodity that can be traded as its energy.

[Host]

Wow. Which is huge because there's so much waste just sitting everywhere. Right.

[Jonathan Appel]

It's the biggest industry in the world. Is it? Because every single industry has wasted. That's true.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

Right.

[Host]

Oh, that's a super good point.

[Jonathan Appel]

Every single industry, whether it's the oil manufacturing, electronic goods. Right. We've done a study. I shouldn't say we. My father, in the early days, when I was only about 14 years old, did a study with Dell where we just took whole computers and we process them, able to extract all the precious metals and everything. And now we're looking at these really amazing new technologies that are able to not only separate out those metals but. Or not only extract those metals, but separate them by their components. So there's a lot of amazing things coming down the pipeline Especially for E Waste, because our phones have gold and silver and all these other precious metals and where if you can capture it, that's now a secondary waste stream that these waste producers processing E waste can capture. They don't have to take apart the motherboard and extract them by hand. They just throw the whole phone in, grind it up. This machine is going to extract all those metals and then the rest, rest of the plastics and everything else go get converted into energy.

[Host]

That's big time.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because there's gold and silver in these devices.

[Jonathan Appel]

Right.

[Host]

Wow, this is really, really good technology, man. Yeah, I'm impressed. I can't wait to see this more mainstream.

[Jonathan Appel]

It's been a journey and that's why we never gave up on it. We've got a really strong team right now and it's just getting stronger by the day and we're going to start doing some really active recruiting to bring on some really, really big players. We're going to look for a top tier CFO and make sure that we have all of our financials in order because we are going to look to tokenize these systems as far as their energy and CO2 credits and there's going to be massive plays at hand in the crypto world. We're working with a tier one platform that is getting ready to launch called zdkl and we're doing a lot of really cool stuff.

[Host]

I love them, man. Any other partnerships?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, there's actually a lot of, a lot of things transpiring. I mean, like I said, we're. I'm probably pulling a 12 to 14 hour day every single day. So you're just, you're kind of constantly grinding. We're talking with some partnerships with a couple of different states, a couple of different countries, looking to scale manufacturing in parts of South America, parts of Africa, parts of Indonesia. So really just looking to get this technology to the world. And, and we are going to be reaching out to some of the big corporate giants like Coca Cola and things like that. I mean, a lot of people don't know, but Coca Cola is the number one plastic polluter in the world. And what they're sitting on is just a vast untapped amount of energy that they could probably use to power their facilities completely and then some. Right? Yeah.

[Host]

Plastic bottle companies would be good. What about glass? Does it process glass?

[Jonathan Appel]

Well, glass is silica based. Right. So a lot of people ask, well, what can you guys process? And it's much easier for me to tell you what we can. They can't process Right. And that's metal, rocks and glass.

[Host]

Got it.

[Jonathan Appel]

And it's not that they can't go through the system, they can absolutely go through, but they don't convert in anything. So they just end up in your biochar and they lower the quality of your biochar. So we try to extract them out. The quality of the biochar is based on the purity of the carbon. Right. So Biochar technically is 75 to 95% carbon. Right. Anything lower is basically just waste. And anything over 95% gets that carbon black specification. Right. Where you get your water filter grade carbon. But we generally produce a carbon about 85% purity. But if you start throwing in a lot of glass into there or metal and things like that, then your purity levels can drop.

[Host]

Someone else will have to solve the heavy metal issue, not you.

[Jonathan Appel]

Oh, we, we did solve the issue. So that is actually one of the main components of the first three stages. So we're an eight stage process. Raw material preparation, thermal depolymerization, hydrolysis, separations, thermal cracking, concentration polishing, and power generation. In stage three hydrolysis, you go water under pressure. Right. We create free hydrogen. But what happens is those metal, those heavy metals, they become water soluble, oxidized. So they extract from whatever component they're in and they end up in the water phase and they're oxidized, naturally occurring form. Right. So they're no longer in this radical reactive form. Because let's remember lead, mercury, all these heavy metals, they're naturally occurring constructs, but it's when we process them and we turn them into their unnatural forms that they really become dangerous.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

But mercury exists in nature, lead exists in nature. Right. These are all naturally occurring. What we do is we're able to actually revert them back into their natural form, their oxidized form, and we're able to literally discharge them directly to the land without worry about them leaching.

[Host]

Nice.

[Jonathan Appel]

We did that research with Jefferson Tester at MIT about 20 years ago, and it was a, it was one of those happy accidents. We were processing coal to seeing if we can upgrade coal. And after they tested the coal, they were like, where'd the mercury go? And we tested the water and we found oxidized mercury in the water.

[Host]

Damn.

[Jonathan Appel]

So it was one of those really cool things. So the hydrolysis is actually where a lot of the magic happens. You oxidize and neutralize heavy metals, you break down pathogens. So we did a study with the DoD in the early days in New York State Department of Health where we Ran tests on Bacillium, Strept, Thermopolis, and Anthrax. And it's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen destruction on those pathogens.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

So that was right as the whole anthrax scare was happening. And with our military connections, they wanted to see make sure if there really was like a major attack and they had to dispose of this, they had a solution and they did. Right? We were the solution. We had a small facility operating in the Philadelphia Naval Yard. So we had everything all set and ready to go in case of a major emergency. But yeah, we. We have 100% pathogen destruction, so we're able to do medical and infectious ways no problem. We even had a permit and you York State for over 20 years to process medical and infectious waste. So, yeah, I mean, what we're able to do, it's not a waste to energy technology. It is a complete waste reclamation technology. We're able to take all the compounds and everything that's in the waste and capture it in a form that's a viable product. Right. There's no waste and there's no byproducts. We create regenerative fuel oil, which is our crude oil, regenerative natural gas biochar, a liquid fertilizer. If you're processing like food waste and organics. Right. If you have nitrogen or phosphorus or potassium present in your waste, you're able to capture that and use fertilizer and then water. Right. So we're a net water producer. So if you think of garbage, garbage is about 50 to 60% water. Most people don't think about that. It's got a lot of moisture in it. So if you have a ton of waste, you have a thousand pounds of water in there, which is about 200 gallons, right. It's about 8.4 pounds per gallon. So all that water usually just evaporates and goes away. Now you're able to capture it. And we're working with this really cool water filtering technology that is able to capture and make drinkable 98% of your stream. Right. An RO system is like 10 to 20% if you're lucky. Right. So if you have 100 gallons, you can get 10 to 20 gallons of usable water.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

This company is claiming 98 gallons of usable water.

[Host]

Holy crap. And so from trash.

[Jonathan Appel]

Well, from. From wastewater.

[Host]

Okay.

[Jonathan Appel]

They're really cool wastewater technology. We actually met them when we met you at ces.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Jonathan Appel]

About two months ago, we got introduced to them. They were presenting here. They're called water, but spelled with two V's. Very, very cool company.

[Host]

Interesting.

[Jonathan Appel]

But yeah, we're looking at, look, take their technology as an add on to our systems. So now a community, right. Let's say one of these off grid communities with thousand homes, they can put a system in, take all that extra water and convert it to drinking water for the community.

[Host]

I'd rather have that than municipal tap water. Yeah, that's with fluoride and who knows what else.

[Jonathan Appel]

Well, the, the worst in, in the tap water. I mean the fluoride's obviously bad and thankfully it looks like Bobby is going to put in some legislation to get rid of that across the United States. But it's really the birth control.

[Host]

That's. Yeah, I heard that.

[Jonathan Appel]

I mean the birth control in the water is, is, is really wrecking havoc on men. And I'm a biologist by trade, that's what I study. Right. And you look at what's going on with our fish, like the largemouth bass is having major reproductive issues because you test our rivers and lakes and there's fake estrogen floating around rivers and lakes because it's such a small molecule that it gets past the weight water treatment facility.

[Host]

Dang.

[Jonathan Appel]

And I mean you have so many women around the country who are on birth control who ex pee it out. Right. And then it ends up in the wastewater treatment plants and then it ends up in nature. And that's, that's one of the reasons why, I mean my testosterone levels, I saw my levels and I'm looking at me, I'm 36 year old male, I'm former high level athlete and I'm looking at it, my levels are sub 400 and I'm like, oh my gosh, like how did this happen to me? And I mean I look at my lifestyle where I sit in front of a computer for hours and hours and a day on end. I haven't been in the gym as much as I should be. And it makes sense. But it's all the poisons in the food. I mean you go out, I mean I, I drink and eat very clean at home.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

But I'm not one of these people that isn't going to go out to a restaurant. You order a water at a restaurant. Unless you get the bottled water, you're just getting municipal poison. Yeah.

[Host]

And you're showering in it. You know, you're bathing in it. Going in swimming pool.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yep. Oh, chlorine is a killer.

[Host]

Yeah. I stopped going in pools. Unless they're saltwater pools.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yep. No, that's very smart. I mean that was one of the things I always worried about, like swimmers like Michael Phelps. Like, what is that? Long term chlorine explosion because you're inhaling it bad.

[Host]

I've seen videos where like it literally enters your bloodstream as soon as you get in the water.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yep. There's a. I think you actually had him on your show, Dr. Papa.

[Host]

Yeah, Pampa.

[Jonathan Appel]

He had a really great video that showed how quickly chlorine absorbs into your skin.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

And like he just filled up a glass of drinking water, tested it for the chlorine it turned in and then he put his fingers in for like 30 seconds and pulled it out and there was no chlorine in the water.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

It's insane.

[Host]

That's disturbing. That's why I stopped going in steam rooms too.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because they use tap water. So you're just inhaling birth control and fluoride and whatever.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

I used to feel worse after steam rooms than going in.

[Jonathan Appel]

That makes sense. I mean, it's. That's. There's so many poisons all around us constantly. And then we wonder why we're sick, we're depressed, because we've really just thrown our natural systems a wrench every five minutes. And especially with the lifestyles that a lot of people live today. I mean, marijuana is not what it was 40 years ago. It's a heavy narcotic at this point.

[Host]

I get anxiety on it now.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yep. And I mean, I still partake from time to time. But alcohol is another big one. Right. I mean, alcohol. I stopped drinking about two little over two years ago because just, Just for work. Right. I'll still toast. Like I'll have a glass of champagne while we're doing a nice toast and have a couple sips. But I stopped socially drinking. And the advancement I have seen in my thinking over the last two years after giving up alcohol has been. It's. I've advanced more in my scientific thinking the last two years than I did in the previous 33 years.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Jonathan Appel]

Just the immense ability for my brain to start putting things together when I stop poisoning it is immense. Right. And alcohol basically opens up the pores in your brain and allows just things to cross the blood brain barrier.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Appel]

I mean, it really is one of those things where you wonder why it's legal when things like marijuana were illegal. And I mean, you look at the fluoride in the water, you look at all these other chemicals that we've been allowed to control, consume while other countries aren't and really makes you question things.

[Host]

It does.

[Jonathan Appel]

And A lot of people point to you like you're a conspiracy theorist when you question things. But when you're a scientist, you understand things at certain levels. You're like, no, that's not conspiracy. That's. There's something major.

[Host]

There's facts and data behind it.

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's not like it's a random saying, you know?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

Jonathan, it's been awesome, man. Where can people find you and find Eden Energy and potentially work with you?

[Jonathan Appel]

Yeah, so. So we're pretty active on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can find me personally at Jonathan appel13 on both Instagram and LinkedIn. On Instagram, we're Edinenergy co. That's the same as our website. And on X we're Eden Energy X. But that's really where we're active right now. We are going to be using an app called Own, which you've had some of those guys on here. We're very good friends with those guys and I believe our marketing team is also going to be using TikTok here a little bit and I think they're also on YouTube.

[Host]

Perfect.

[Jonathan Appel]

But our marketing team does some really great work, puts out some really great content and I'm going to be a little bit more active in X over the coming months. Really trying to get Eden's name out there, but also explain things from the scientific perspective that I've been so blessed have the opportunity to learn. Yeah, a lot of people don't have the opportunities I've had. I'm very thankful and fortunate.

[Host]

Can't wait to see you guys everywhere. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Jonathan Appel]

Thanks for having us.

[Host]

Check them out, guys, and I'll see you next time.