Unlock Your Leadership Potential: Erwin McManus Reveals 7 Keys | Erwin McManus Part 2 DSH #1057

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Unlock Your Leadership Potential with Erwin McManus (Part 2) | DSH #1057

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Erwin McManus
Release Date: January 4, 2025

In the enlightening second part of his conversation with Erwin McManus, Sean Kelly delves deep into leadership, personal growth, communication, and overcoming adversity. This episode offers a rich tapestry of insights drawn from McManus's diverse experiences, his philosophical outlook, and his commitment to fostering meaningful connections.

---

1. Overcoming Internal Obstacles

Erwin McManus opens the dialogue by addressing the notion that humans are their greatest barriers to creating a better world. He emphasizes the potential for universal opportunity beyond mere survival needs.

"We're our greatest obstacle to a better world. And. But I do think that we can create a world where everyone has not just the basic food and the basic needs in life, but real opportunity to elevate and enhance their life."
[01:00]

Sean Kelly responds with admiration for McManus's inherent positivity, highlighting the rarity of such an outlook.

---

2. Personal Journey and Spirituality

McManus shares his journey from an irreligious upbringing to a profound personal faith distinct from organized religion.

"I'm not a big fan of religion, but I'm. I, you know, I'm deeply spiritual and I have a profound faith in Jesus, but that's not religion to me."
[01:59]

He reflects on his college years as a pivotal period for exploring spiritual beliefs, contrasting with his childhood focused on philosophy and mythology.

---

3. Perspectives on Power and Money in Politics

A significant portion of the conversation explores McManus's views on power dynamics and the role of money in politics. He argues that money amplifies one's inherent qualities rather than corrupting them intrinsically.

"Money doesn't corrupt people. Money just allows people to become a larger version of themselves."
[04:33]

McManus advocates for an abundance mindset, suggesting that prosperity should be viewed as a non-zero-sum game where one person's gain doesn't necessitate another's loss.

"It's win, win, that your power doesn't diminish my power. Just like your greatness doesn't diminish my greatness or your wealth doesn't diminish my capacity for wealth."
[05:01]

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4. Building Healthy Relationships Through Communication

Delving into the core of human connection, McManus introduces his concept of the "Seven Frequencies of Communication," aimed at enhancing interpersonal relationships.

"Communication is the key to having a healthy marriage, it's the key to having a healthy business. It's the key to every relational dynamic you will ever engage in."
[25:18]

He explains how different communication styles—like his own "Maven" frequency and his wife's "Commander" frequency—can lead to misunderstandings but also offer opportunities for deeper connection when understood and respected.

"When she says, you know, take out the garbage, what she's really saying is, I love you."
[26:54]

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5. Embracing Gratitude for Mental Well-being

McManus underscores the transformative power of gratitude, linking it to brain health and overall happiness.

"Grateful people have more adaptive, pliable, and vibrant brains. Ungrateful people rigidify their brains, become less adaptive, and actually are more prone to things like late development, like mental illnesses like Alzheimer's."
[20:15]

He contrasts this with his own experiences, noting how cultivating gratitude has reshaped his perception of life's challenges and blessings.

---

6. Resilience Through Adversity: Experiences in El Salvador

A poignant segment of the episode recounts McManus's tumultuous childhood in El Salvador, marked by political violence and personal trauma. These early experiences fostered his resilience and empathy, qualities he now channels into his work.

"We live pretty poor. But we were so incredibly happy and fulfilled and content."
[18:47]

He shares harrowing stories, such as an incident where his family narrowly escaped a violent encounter, illustrating the pervasive fear that once gripped El Salvador and how leadership transformed the nation's safety landscape.

---

7. Philosophical Musings: Luck, Dreams, and Perception

McManus engages in a thoughtful discourse on abstract concepts like luck and the nature of dreams. He challenges conventional notions, proposing that what we perceive as luck is often the result of principles and favor aligned with personal growth.

"I think luck is about perception, that lucky people see the opportunity in front of them, and unlucky people are blind to the opportunities."
[45:18]

Regarding dreams, McManus opens up about his unique neurological condition that keeps him in a perpetual dream state, leading to recurring nightmares that bridge his conscious and subconscious experiences.

"Every negative emotion has a story that allows it to exist within you. Every positive emotion has a story within you."
[52:31]

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8. The Intersection of Belief and Truth

Highlighting the tension between established beliefs and emerging truths, McManus encourages a flexible approach to understanding the world.

"You want to be a person committed to truth. You do not want to be a person that's controlled by belief, because if your beliefs are more powerful than truth, you will reject the truth even when it's right in front of you."
[35:17]

He cites historical examples like the heliocentric model and the round Earth theory, emphasizing the importance of evolving perspectives in the pursuit of knowledge.

---

9. Legacy and Impact

The conversation concludes with poignant reflections on the tangible impact of McManus's work. Sean Kelly shares personal testimonials of lives transformed, illustrating the profound reach of meaningful dialogue and intentional communication.

"One person that you prevented him from committing suicide. And you don't even know him."
[42:17]

McManus expresses gratitude for these connections, reinforcing his belief in the transformative power of authentic relationships and effective communication.

---

Key Takeaways

• Abundance Mindset: Embracing a perspective where one’s success doesn't diminish others’, fostering a collaborative environment conducive to collective growth.

• Effective Communication: Understanding and adapting to different communication frequencies can significantly enhance personal and professional relationships.

• Gratitude as a Foundation: Cultivating gratitude not only enriches mental well-being but also strengthens one's adaptability and resilience.

• Resilience Through Adversity: Early life challenges can forge profound empathy and determination, serving as catalysts for impactful leadership.

• Flexible Beliefs: Prioritizing truth over rigid beliefs allows for continual growth and adaptation in an ever-evolving world.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "We're our greatest obstacle to a better world." – Irwin McManus [01:00]

• "Money doesn't corrupt people. Money just allows people to become a larger version of themselves." – Irwin McManus [04:33]

• "Communication is the key to having a healthy marriage, it's the key to having a healthy business." – Irwin McManus [25:18]

• "Grateful people have more adaptive, pliable, and vibrant brains." – Irwin McManus [20:15]

• "Luck is about perception, that lucky people see the opportunity in front of them." – Irwin McManus [45:18]

• "You do not want to be a person that's controlled by belief, because if your beliefs are more powerful than truth, you will reject the truth even when it's right in front of you." – Irwin McManus [35:17]

• "Everything has to be what everyone's believed in the past." – Irwin McManus [34:37]

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Conclusion

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, Erwin McManus offers a blend of personal anecdotes, philosophical insights, and practical advice aimed at unlocking leadership potential and fostering deeper human connections. Through his candid conversations with Sean Kelly, listeners are encouraged to adopt an abundance mindset, prioritize effective communication, and cultivate gratitude as foundational elements for personal and collective growth.

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Links & Resources:

• Erwin McManus's Books: Explore his extensive array of literature focused on personal development and leadership.

• Seven Frequencies of Communication Assessment: Visit the7frequencies.com or irwinmacvanis.com to take the assessment and discover your core communication frequencies.

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Thank you for tuning into Digital Social Hour. Stay connected and continue your journey towards unlocking your leadership potential!

Transcript

[Irwin McManus]

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[Irwin McManus]

We're. We're our greatest obstacle to a better world. And. But I do think that we can create a world where everyone has not just the basic food and the basic needs in life, but real opportunity to elevate and enhance their life.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

And that's the kind of life I like fighting for.

[Sean]

I love that. I love how positive you are, man.

[Irwin McManus]

That's.

[Sean]

I. I wish more people thought that way. For real. Part two with Irwin McManus. Spoke at your event the other day and it was beautiful, man, meeting your community. So thanks for coming on.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, it was so much fun to have you. Everybody loved you.

[Sean]

Yeah. That was my first time out of church in, man, 15 years.

[Irwin McManus]

I don't know if it counts as church. It was, it was a building where a church meets.

[Sean]

Yeah. Well, I got to meet the people that attend the church, I guess, and it was cool to get reintroduced to that community.

[Irwin McManus]

That's wonderful because they're wonderful people.

[Sean]

Yeah. Because I told you I had a bad taste from religion growing up.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So. And that's probably a common issue. You See, Right.

[Irwin McManus]

I think religion gives everyone a bad taste.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

I'm not a big fan of religion, but I'm. I, you know, I'm deeply spiritual and I have a profound faith in Jesus, but that's not religion to me. Religion is human beings trying to earn God's acceptance or his love. And it's the opposite for me. You don't have to earn it, you just receive it.

[Sean]

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That is a very unique take.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Have you always had that, or is that something.

[Irwin McManus]

No, I grew up completely irreligious.

[Sean]

Oh.

[Irwin McManus]

I never walked into any kind of religious building or anything, really. And was a philosopher in college. Read every mythology book by the time I was in sixth grade. So I was always inquisitive and really, really curious, but didn't know anything about the idea of God on a deeply personal level. So it was only in college that I began to really explore it.

[Sean]

Nice. Yeah. Election just ended. I'm sure that's a relief for you.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, I'm so glad. It's. Well, it's not really over, but it's in. It is. At least phase one is over. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah. A lot of division because of. Because of it. Right.

[Irwin McManus]

It's amazing how much emotion is involved for people. And it's. And I think it's. Some of it is that some people only have hope in political systems.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

They only have hope in their candidate. And so when their candidate loses, they're devastated.

[Sean]

Devastated.

[Irwin McManus]

And then their candidate wins, and later they're disappointed because no candidate ever lives up to everything they promised. And so there's always a level of human disappointment.

[Sean]

Yeah. I read these comments. Man. Some people are so passionate.

[Irwin McManus]

I know.

[Sean]

And it's like, wow, I. I have very little emotion tied to politics personally.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, me either.

[Sean]

So for me, it's just interesting to see these visceral reactions.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. I'm more interested in the sociology of it. I'm really curious to see what happens, how people feel, how things are communicated, how many things are distorted, how much is actually documented accurately. And so I think I look at it from a more objective perspective. I don't really have as much emotion as everyone who seems to live and die with it.

[Sean]

And it seems money has really changed politics from its inception.

[Irwin McManus]

Well, in its inception. Well, remember, we didn't start politics, but American politics was always the field or the playground of the rich. I mean, Washington and Jefferson and Adams, Franklin, they were the most educated, most affluent people. So the idea that money has suddenly affected American politics would, I think, maybe be skewed money always affected American politics.

[Sean]

Really?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

Money doesn't corrupt people. Money just allows people to become a larger version of themselves. And so if you're not corrupt at the core, money will not corrupt you.

[Sean]

Wow, that's deep. I gotta think about that one. I just feel like a lot of politicians get corrupted early on by money though.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, but I think they're more corrupted by power and then the money helps them get the power.

[Sean]

Got it.

[Irwin McManus]

And so the money is really a vehicle to get what they really want, which is power.

[Sean]

And power has always been an issue over time. Right.

[Irwin McManus]

All of human history.

[Sean]

Yeah. You see it as soon as we were made. I mean, people with territory conquering the world understand of the great.

[Irwin McManus]

The moment we try to impose our will on someone else's life, it becomes an issue of power.

[Sean]

Is that something you think that you kind of just have as a human and you got to fight against it, or do you think?

[Irwin McManus]

I think it's inherently important to have a sense of power that you don't feel powerless in life and so that you can create the life you dream, you imagine you want. But I also think there's a corruption in it where we become win, lose, the proof that I'm powerful to someone else is powerless. And if we can work from a different perspective, that it's win, win, that your power doesn't diminish my power. Just like your greatness doesn't diminish my greatness or your wealth doesn't diminish my capacity for wealth. And so you have to have an open system, an abundance mindset that says there's enough for everyone and more. If you have a really limited system, there's only so much and you fight for what's limited.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And it creates a greater sense of violence.

[Sean]

Do you think that system is scalable in the masses though?

[Irwin McManus]

I do.

[Sean]

For everyone to win and have power?

[Irwin McManus]

I do. I'm an idealist. Yeah.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

I do. Look at the Earth's resources. Do you realize there's enough food on this planet to feed every human being? I mean, just if we stop paying farmers not to farm, if we didn't try to control the economics of farming, we actually have enough food on this planet to feed everyone. There are enough resources on this planet for everyone to live well. And so it's not an issue of resources, it's really an issue of power.

[Sean]

So because 78 of people can't afford a thousand dollar expense right now. So is there a time in society where you can see everyone being financially you Know, wealthy.

[Irwin McManus]

I think I can see a time in society where, well, one only dealing with ideals. Human beings, we're our greatest obstacle to a better world. And. But I do think that we can create a world where everyone has not just the basic food and the basic needs in life, but real opportunity to elevate and enhance their life.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

And that's the kind of life I like fighting for.

[Sean]

I love that. I love how positive you are, man.

[Irwin McManus]

That's.

[Sean]

I. I wish more people thought that way. For real. A lot of people are just hoarding mentalities, right?

[Irwin McManus]

No, no, that's right. And, and. And you hoard when you have a limited resource mindset.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

I need to hold onto it because there's not enough for everyone. And it's just like with ideas. I mean, when, you know, I don't build things, I don't build cars or houses or technology. My competency is ideas, and I have thousands of them. And I've seen so many people steal my IP over the years, and my team will get really upset when someone steals my intellectual property. And I tell them, look, when someone steals your idea, it means they don't have any. And so why should I get upset when someone who didn't have any steals one of mine? I have a thousand more. The ones they can't steal are the ones I haven't thought of yet.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And so if you have an unlimited resource mindset, it creates a new, an incredibly generous relationship toward the world.

[Sean]

I love that. Reminds me of Elon, how he released the electric vehicle patents.

[Irwin McManus]

That's right.

[Sean]

He wanted the whole world to have them.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Because I think he's absolutely confident that he can create something else.

[Sean]

I mean, he already has multiple times. He's also changing social media. People can speak their truth now.

[Irwin McManus]

It's really interesting to see what. What he's done, and it makes you wonder if media had gone to the far right because it clearly went to the left.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

But if it went to the right, I wonder if someone like Elon would have just bought it to go to the left, because I think he's actually more committed to the free expression of thought than to a particular political, ideological end.

[Sean]

Agreed. I think that that was needed at the time because there was a lot of censorship.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, so much.

[Sean]

I'm sure you dealt with that.

[Irwin McManus]

I. I have. I. I don't want to go into detail because I don't want to get censored again.

[Sean]

I definitely. I've lost. I got banned last week on Tik Tok.

[Irwin McManus]

Last week?

[Sean]

Yeah. I got it back, but we got.

[Irwin McManus]

We got banned last week on Facebook.

[Sean]

Let's go join the club.

[Irwin McManus]

There you go.

[Sean]

It's so crazy, though, cuz I'm just having conversations. It's not like we're spreading propaganda.

[Irwin McManus]

No.

[Sean]

Intentionally.

[Irwin McManus]

Conversations are the most powerful things in the world, so you know.

[Sean]

Right? Yeah, I. I know. Man, we got to talk marriage, 40 plus years. Congrats.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, thanks so much.

[Sean]

I'm getting married next year, so I definitely want to learn from you.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, congratulations. That's exciting.

[Sean]

We're seven years in, but I know there's a lot more improvement to be made.

[Irwin McManus]

Well, my wife right now, Kim, she's in North Carolina in the mountains with a team from Mosaic, working with the people who have lost their homes, lost their livelihood, and lost their dreams. And they're. They're rebuilding houses and helping families in the mountains in North Carolina that were devastated by the hurricane floods there. And she sent me a little video. She goes, can you give us a caption? And I just sent her. We rebuild dreams because rebuilding a house, anyone can do that. But rebuilding dreams takes a real art.

[Sean]

Beautiful.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Wow. Shout out to her, because she didn't need to do that.

[Irwin McManus]

No, but she.

[Sean]

None of your team did. Oh, she grew up there, and her.

[Irwin McManus]

Sister manages the government project where they grew up. So it's full circle.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And is there helping the people who are working their way out of poverty.

[Sean]

That's Beautiful, man. Yeah. 40 years. How'd you two meet?

[Irwin McManus]

We met getting our master's degrees.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Irwin McManus]

In college, just after college, getting our master's. And she was a really interesting person. I met her playing racquetball pretty much. And I actually had a work I was doing with homeless people on the street, and she came and volunteered out there, and that's the first place I remember seeing her.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Irwin McManus]

She's always had that kind of heart, to work with people who are refugees or outcasts or economically, you know, struggling with the poor. So that's always been her.

[Sean]

Her giving. Nature attracted you?

[Irwin McManus]

It. It did. Not only that, her almost, I would say, reckless but fearless nature, that the first time I saw her, she was having a conversation. One of the most violent men that I knew in the inner city.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Irwin McManus]

And one of the guys came up to me, said, hey, that girl's talking to that guy. Do you want me to stop her? And I said, no. She wants to come down here, work, you know, let her interact with him. And he is a pretty brutal human being. Of course, we were watching to make sure she was okay. But I just realized this. This girl is fearless. And she'd go into the government projects and some of the most violent places in the cities and. And just serve and help people. And that's what really attracted me.

[Sean]

That's awesome, man. Fearless. Yeah. That's a rare thing these days. It is being fearless. There's a lot of fear these days.

[Irwin McManus]

People are absolutely paralyzed by fear. It's.

[Sean]

It's crazy. Oh, man. I was for a while.

[Irwin McManus]

I mean, one of the interesting things, culturally, is that when you have more of something, you have more language to describe it. So when you have, let's say, snow. I think the Inuit, Eskimos have 30 to 40 different words to describe snow. But I'm from El Salvador. We don't have any. We have the same word nieve, for snow that we used for ice cream.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Because we. You could double up one cold word because there's not a lot of cool things there. I think it's in Indonesia. There are an endless number of words for the color green. The more you have of something, the more language you have to describe it. Well, when I was growing up, and I'm much, you know, older than you, we had one word or two to describe any kind of mental or psychological trauma. You're crazy. Yeah, that was it. But now we have all these words for fear. We call it anxiety, panic attacks, stress. We have an endless number of descriptions for different experiences of fear, but they're all rooted in fear. This deep paralysis that the outside factors have more control over our life than our own inside factors.

[Sean]

That is interesting. Yeah. There's so many labels now for mental health.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Fear, anxiety, panic. Yeah. I struggled with panic attacks for a bit.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a real thing. It's a real thing. And I think some of it is we have grown up in a more safe environment than almost any time in human history. And so if you grew up in a. In a safe environment, you. You do not always develop the skills for dealing with an unsafe environment. And then if. If you have instability or things were out of control, then you can't. You don't have predictability.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And that creates distress and that creates anxiety, that creates fear.

[Sean]

Yeah. Everything's so easy these days. Yeah. You order groceries to the house, eating three meals a day.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Everyone's overweight. Yeah. I wonder what it'd be like living back in the day.

[Irwin McManus]

Well, I lived back in the day.

[Sean]

I meant when we were hunting and stuff, but.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Yeah. There are people still hunting to this day.

[Sean]

That's fascinating to me.

[Irwin McManus]

It is to me, too. I mean, but think about that. That you only eat if you hunt, effectively, if you kill.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And so you don't have a guarantee. And so you're not really stressing out on the same things that we're stressing out over.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

Because you're focusing on survival needs. And there's some sense that we. The luxury of success is anxiety. The luxury of success is depression. Because the moment you have those basic needs met, now you're asking the question, does life have any meaning? Is this all there is?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Do I have any value? Do I have any self worth? Those are questions that you get to ask when you're not running from the lion. Facts.

[Sean]

I've asked those questions. I used to get those thoughts at a super young age, actually.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, me too.

[Sean]

Yeah. In like, fourth grade.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I would ask, like, why am I here? What's my purpose?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And yeah, it's interesting. I wonder if a lot of people deal with that.

[Irwin McManus]

I think there are certain kinds of personalities that ask those questions earlier. And by the time I was 10 years old, I was in a psychiatric chair and I spent six months in and out of a hospital. And it was all, from what I was told, psychosomatic. And I was asking those questions, and I was really traumatized by trying to make sense of life. And. And I look back now and I realize some of it was environmental. You know, I'm an immigrant from El Salvador. Spanish was my first language. I never knew my real father. I have one vague memory of him. I'm not sure if it's a memory where people told me the story and I remember the story. He was a guy who spoke multiple languages, maybe six or more, but was also an alcoholic. And then my mom became a Pan Am stewardess, so she left me with my grandparents. So from the day of my birth, my grandparents raised me for the first few years.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And then my mom came back and brought me to Miami. So you have all that. That instilled trauma at a very young age. But we have to remember humans are incredibly resilient. My brain wouldn't go, oh, this isn't right. Because it's the only path I ever knew. So I didn't know other people had different paths. And our brains are incredibly resilient. But what does happen is when you go through a lot of instability, a lot of trauma early on, oftentimes you start asking different questions than someone else who didn't. And so if you're asking those questions in third Fourth grade. It really means there are certain things in your life that were so unstable that it caused you to ask deeper questions in life.

[Sean]

Wow. Never thought of it that way. Thank you.

[Irwin McManus]

So we have the benefit of growing up with instability would allowed us to begin to ask big, broad questions.

[Sean]

The benefit. Yeah. Some people wouldn't say that's a benefit, but when you zoom out, it probably is.

[Irwin McManus]

I, you know, I look at everything that you can adapt into a resource that allows you to be better and to make the world better as a benefit.

[Sean]

Yeah. I love that. For me, it was probably my parents divorce at a young age and getting bullied and. Yeah. Those two combined I think is enough to start questioning life. Were you getting bullied, grown up too?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean]

That doesn't surprise me.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And. But I think Sean, probably we had a similar experience and I just always. You ever felt like everyone else fit in but you didn't?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And you didn't figure out who sent the formula home. This is how you fit it in school. And I just, I never got the memo, you know, that told me how to fit in.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And so I always feel like an outsider. But in that sense, I'm even grateful for that because I think I'm incredibly sensitive to people who are outsiders. I feel like I developed this high level of empathy because I knew what it was like to be an outsider looking in.

[Sean]

Right. Yeah, that was definitely me. I was literally watching videos on how to talk to girls. Like, I had no game. I was not confident at all.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I lacked a lot of confidence growing up. Didn't have that father figure. My parents got divorced and it showed in sports, it showed in personal life for sure. Yeah. Not having that father figure is tough, man.

[Irwin McManus]

It is. I think it's understated and undervalued how important it is to have a father and to have that. That person who can model for you both strength and, and tenderness at the same time.

[Sean]

Yeah. But I will say, having gone through that now, I want to become the best father possible.

[Irwin McManus]

That's awesome. That's the best way to solve the problem.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

Is to be the better version of yourself.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to be a parent one day, man. And I've met your kids, you know. It's been great getting to know them.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So well done.

[Irwin McManus]

Ah, thanks.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. You know, the thing, the two things in my life that I feel most proud of are Aaron and Mariah.

[Sean]

I love it.

[Irwin McManus]

My son and daughter.

[Sean]

Yeah. Were you working non stop in the early years of Them I was, you.

[Irwin McManus]

Know, and I wasn't independently wealthy, you know, I. Aaron experienced a little more poverty than Mariah. Those three years make a difference, you know, and when my wife and I were married, you know, we were sleeping on the floor because we couldn't afford a bed. So came from pretty significant financial crisis. I think for maybe 10 years, I never made more than 15, 16,000 a year.

[Sean]

Dang.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I spent those years working with urban poor, working with people in the world of prostitution and drugs, with gangbangers and cartels, and. And so there's not a lot of money in that unless you take the illegal distribution. But. So we live pretty poor. But we were so incredibly happy and fulfilled and content. And so when Aaron was born, we really started with nothing. Just, I mean, zero. And so he grew up a little bit in that. Got it, you know, for a few years, and he knew what that was like. And then Mariah, she touched on just a little bit, not as much. So I'm really grateful that one. I'm kind of grateful that Aaron got to be a part of that early journey, because the appreciation for what we do have now and what we have accomplished, I think is. Is way greater because he remembers, you know, what it was like. I mean, we, for us, eating out, like, big time was going to Sizzler.

[Sean]

I don't even know what that is.

[Irwin McManus]

It's a. It's a really cheap steakhouse. And we would go there because they had all you can eat for kids.

[Sean]

Oh, nice Golden Corral.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, no, that's exactly what it is. Basically, the Golden Corral.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

You know, and. And so I look back and I realize the things that for us were such a luxury are now things that, you know, are just almost like, insignificant to us. And that's a wonderful thing.

[Sean]

That's beautiful gratitude, man. I write 10 things every morning.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Sean]

Yeah, I've done that, and it's helped me a lot. Now they're doing studies on how it actually helps your brain health, too.

[Irwin McManus]

Absolutely. About 20 years ago, I wrote a book on internal change, how people actually grow. And I have an entire chapter on gratitude. And one of the things that now neuroscience has shown about gratitude is that they describe it as the lubricant of the brain. Grateful people have more adaptive, pliable, and vibrant brains. Ungrateful people rigidify their brains, become less adaptive, and actually are more prone to things like late development, like mental illnesses like Alzheimer's. And so one of the best ways to keep your brain adaptive Pliable and alive is gratitude.

[Sean]

Love that.

[Irwin McManus]

It's so beautiful.

[Sean]

So you got to be careful if.

[Irwin McManus]

You'Re stubborn or if you're ungrateful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

Dang. That was a big shift I had to make, actually. My. My father was super pessimistic, like, beyond you can even imagine.

[Irwin McManus]

Wow.

[Sean]

Like, you tell them any news and it's just a negative reaction. So when you grow up around that, it kind of rubs off on you.

[Irwin McManus]

Yes.

[Sean]

So I. I would say I wasn't grateful for the life my early years, so it took some time to reflect on that.

[Irwin McManus]

Well, have you felt your brain getting more adaptive and flexible in the life?

[Sean]

I have, yeah. The podcast has definitely opened it up and I've gotten multiple brain scans now and it's looking good. It's looking a lot better. I love that I had some childhood trauma on the first scan. Just got another scan last week. All gone.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Sean]

Incredible, man. So that's the power of talking with people like you, man.

[Irwin McManus]

That's a brain flex. That's better than having a washboard stomach.

[Sean]

Yeah. You said earlier you were happy while you were poor.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Sean]

That's incredible to me.

[Irwin McManus]

I think a lot of times people think happiness is connected to your external circumstances, and it's not at all. Happiness is really a state of inner well being. And if you can look at life on a spectrum, what's crazy is you can have great experiences and still be unhappy. You can have great wealth, a lot of things and still be unhappy. The one thing that really measures or defines or shapes your happiness are healthy relationships. If you have healthy relationships and great experiences, they become lifelong memories that bring adrenaline and. And become a source of joy throughout your life. If you have great relationships and great success, that success is fulfilling and enjoyable. But if you achieve great success and have terrible relationships, you'll actually remember that period as a dark period in your life.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

If you have terrible relationships and great experiences, you will not remember those experiences fondly. And so one of the things I've really realized in life is that a part of maturity is moving from seeing life as the attainment of things or experiences, but it's about relationships. And when you have healthy relationships, that helps define everything else in your life. And I think a lot of my happiness came from one being married to Kim and realizing, wow, I have this person I get to do life with and building my life around trying to have as healthy relationships as I could. And then it was expressing gratitude. I was just simply grateful for life. I Think one of the interesting perspectives is when someone thinks that life owes them something, or the world owes them something, or your parents owe you something. I think early on I came to a conclusion that no one owed me anything. And that every day when I woke up and took a breath, that was a gift. And I had a choice to make to fill that day with meaning. And so one of the things I would say all the time, I said, today is filled with possibilities and opportunities. And that was just the way I would posture myself every single day toward life.

[Sean]

Wow. What age was that?

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, I. Oh, really? A huge shift to. That was around 20 years old.

[Sean]

Wow. That's very young to think like that. Usually that's a thought as you're dying, you know what I mean? But it's sad to see it takes a near death experience for people to make that shift, you know, and they're much older by then.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Why is it that we need near death experiences? We should actually be moved by near life experiences. You know, those moments when we feel fully alive and we think to ourselves, if I can feel like this right now, why don't I try to expand what I'm experiencing to make it my life all the time?

[Sean]

Right. I've had a few of those moments. Tears of joy, right? Yeah, yeah. It's happened a few times to me. Yeah, it's beautiful, man. You got a new book about frequencies, right?

[Irwin McManus]

I do. I have a book called the Seven Frequencies of Communication. And we spent two years also developing an assessment so people could identify their core frequencies. And I just wanted to help people make deeper connections. The subtitle of the book is the Secret or the Hidden Language of Human Connection. The real goal of the book is to create deeper connections between people. But you cannot have deep connections without healthy communication. So if you can learn how to be heard and to hear others, it'll change your life forever.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And it's everything. It's, you know, communication is the key to having a healthy marriage, it's the key to having a healthy business. It's the key to every relational dynamic you will ever engage in. If you learn not just how to be understood, but if you learn how to understand other people, it changes everything in life.

[Sean]

Right?

[Irwin McManus]

So. And I wanted to not use it, not talk about, like methods or tricks or, you know, methodology for communication. I want to talk about something essential. And I'm absolutely convinced that human beings are these brilliant particles and waves and we connect as particles and we forever connect to each other and affect each other, but we also connect as waves. And when we speak, we actually invade each other's soul space. And so when someone says, you know, sean, you're amazing, it actually goes inside of you. Or when someone you're five or six says, sean, you know, you're such a mess up. It goes deep into your soul, and it's hard to get it out of your soul. It's because our words have power, right? And the frequencies from which we speak have significant effect on how they impact each other. So we identified seven frequencies of communication, from the Motivator to the Challenger to the Commander, to the Healer, the Professor, the Seer, and the Maven. And we basically broke down those seven frequencies and helped people identify their frequency, their cluster frequency. Like my wife, Kim, she's a commander. That's her number one frequency. And commanders are very utilitarian. They. They just want to give you enough information so you know what to do. And you. When you've been married for 40 years for a. To a commander, you realize, oh, wow, you know.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And when she says, you know, take out the garbage, what she's really saying is, I love you. Because she speaks in commands, and even when she's making a request, it sounds like command.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That is interesting.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Yeah. I think if Kim said I love you would come across like, come and. And. And. And then she wants me to communicate as clearly, but I have a very different frequency. My frequency is called the Maven, which means I never answer questions directly. I answer questions with questions. I.

[Sean]

Some people don't like that.

[Irwin McManus]

No, look, my kids, they're probably the only two kids in the world that have said, dad, just tell us what to do. Mariah, our daughter, would go, I don't need Buddha. I don't need Yoda. I just need you to tell me what to do.

[Sean]

I love that.

[Irwin McManus]

And I'd say, well, honey, let's think about. No, I don't want to think about it. I don't want a metaphor. I don't want a story. I just want a command. So I'm the exact opposite of that relationship. And so sometimes I would get mad because Kim wouldn't do what I want her to do, but she didn't even know what I was asking for. Yeah, because her frequency is command, so if it's not clear, it's not real. I remember one time, after a few years, I just finally said to her, I said, why won't you take me seriously when I'm angry? And she said, because I don't know when you're angry. Said, how can you not know I'm angry? I literally look at you and go, I'm really angry. She goes, yeah, but there's no emotion behind it.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And she's Irish, you know, background, so there's a lot of emotion behind her words. And I'm Latino, so there should be a lot of emotion behind my words. But I've learned to be, I guess, very stoic and, you know, so if I say, you know, Sean, this really bothers me, that's the equivalent to someone else screaming and yelling.

[Sean]

Interesting.

[Irwin McManus]

And we've had to learn how to hear each other, not just be, you know, not just to be heard.

[Sean]

I can. I can definitely relate to that. Yeah. Some people wear their emotion on their sleeve, right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Whereas some people, they could say they're angry, upset, or happy, and maybe you won't even see it.

[Irwin McManus]

That's right.

[Sean]

So that's you.

[Irwin McManus]

That is happiness. I seem to express really naturally.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

Anger, it's. It's a really difficult emotion for me to express, and I think it's because when I was very young, I had the potential of having a very explosive temper, and I saw the negative result of an uncontrolled emotional outburst, and it made me feel powerless. And I realized that any emotion that you do not have mastery over has mastery over you. And I did not like the feeling of having emotions have mastery over me. So I developed from a very young age the ability to have mastery over my emotions. And then I learned how to take negative emotions and process them internally, even if it meant just me taking a walk, because I've never seen a negative emotion have a positive impact.

[Sean]

Negative emotion. So you mean like anger and sadness?

[Irwin McManus]

Well, no. Sadness and anger can be. They're just human emotions. But when your anger is used to hurt, that's the use of a negative emotion.

[Sean]

Got it. Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

Or, you know, sadness. I. I've been sad. I get sad. So I. You know, I don't see sadness as a positive or negative emotion. I see it as a human emotion.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

But then if I move toward depression or I move toward victimization, where I'm the victim, that's where it becomes destructive.

[Sean]

Agreed. It's. Yeah, yeah. You can't really be productive in that state.

[Irwin McManus]

No, you can't, because then you're just drowning in your own sadness.

[Sean]

Yeah, I could definitely see that. So this type of stuff is very important to know, then.

[Irwin McManus]

I think it's really important to know, and I think it can really change the way a person experiences life.

[Sean]

Yeah, absolutely. Going a little off topic Here.

[Irwin McManus]

Okay, let's go. Anywhere you want.

[Sean]

Last time we talked at Mosaic, you mentioned this, and I got to bring this up because I was dumbfounded. Aliens in the Bible.

[Irwin McManus]

I saw that on the list of questions that you had, and I thought, sean, why do you want to ask me about aliens in the Bible? So here's my answer. We are the aliens of the Bible. We always think we're the home team. But one of the things I love to think about and ponder, because I'm a person who has a deep belief in God, I'm actually a follower of Jesus, and so I have high respect for the Bible. But I think a lot of times we interpret the Bible through what we know and rather than what is possible. So sometimes I just read the Bible. I think to myself, what is a maven approach toward reading the Scriptures? And I think, ah, Noah's Ark. Could Noah's Ark be the story of. Of a race of humans from another planet who lost their planet through a colossal flood and had to build a spaceship that traveled across universes and landed on the Earth? And that actually the story of Noah's Ark is us journeying from this other place, which is why we can't find the Garden of Eden, because it's not on this Earth, it's not on the planet. And so I just love contemplating things like that. So I never want to say no, because we always think something isn't possible until it happens.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And you know, when I read the Bible and I think about, there's a place where Elijah and Moses show up with Jesus during the life of Jesus, and I look at that, I go, oh, look at that. Time travel. So ask me if there's time travel in the Bible because Elijah and Moses show up in a different time.

[Sean]

How many years was it?

[Irwin McManus]

Generations. Hundreds and hundreds.

[Sean]

So logically, that wouldn't make sense.

[Irwin McManus]

No, no. Elijah and Moses didn't even live during the same eras.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And so now they show up at the time of Jesus. I go, maybe that's a window that time travel is actually possible. So I think there's a lot of glimpses into possibilities that we don't even consider because they seem impossible to us.

[Sean]

Right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That's why you got to be careful with taking things too literally. Right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yes. You take the literal things literally and the metaphorical things metaphorically. And you don't want to confuse the two. Right. But human beings are driven by stories, and stories are the most important things that shape us. And so when you read the stories in the Bible, a lot of times people get lost in the minutiae of is this detail exactly right. Rather than where's the story trying to take us. There's this fascinating place in Genesis, I think, in chapter five where it says that they were the sons of God and the daughters of men. And it says in those days heroes walked among us. And it's a description of almost two species of humans existing at the same time. And now we know that there's also Neanderthals who existed and that I'm a part of this genetic research group that became a large public company, 23andMe.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And they can actually identify how much Neanderthal you have in your genetic code. And so I'm in the bottom 10%, but I, I have people I know that are in the top. Like they have 90% of the, of the indicators for Neanderthal.

[Sean]

Dang.

[Irwin McManus]

And so when you look at that, you think, oh, well, there were at least these two different forms of humans that existed.

[Sean]

That's crazy.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And so when I look at the Bible and I see this group that's, they're called the Sons of God and then it says the other group called the Daughters of Men, you know, could it be that there were two, in a sense, species of humanity? And by the way, the sons of God ones could have been from another planet and then the daughters of Men could have been from this one. So I, I, I know I'm probably going to open up a lot of controversial things for people. I'm going, I think it's okay to imagine these things.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

I think it's okay to talk about them and I love to explore them.

[Sean]

I think you should, I mean, why not?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, that's, that's the problem with certain, like communities. They're so close minded on certain things.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Everything has to be what everyone's believed in the past.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

Which is why they thought when Copernicus started talking about, you know, the, the different shaping of the, of the solar system, I mean, just the idea that the sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, but the Earth revolves around the sun was considered heresy. You know, the idea that the Earth was round and not flat was considered heresy.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And every time we discover a new truth, we think it's has violated an old truth. It has not violated an old truth. It violated an old perspective, it violated an old opinion, an old belief system. There is a difference between belief and truth. And we spend our lives trying to match our beliefs with truth.

[Sean]

Wow, I love that. Yeah. Because as New data and new evidence comes, things change.

[Irwin McManus]

And so you. You want to be a person committed to truth. You do not want to be a person that's controlled by belief, because if your beliefs are more powerful than truth, you will reject the truth even when it's right in front of you.

[Sean]

And that's a perfect example of politics.

[Irwin McManus]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

Because people put so much belief in someone.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And there's no truth to it.

[Irwin McManus]

No, absolutely.

[Sean]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, yeah. I love that.

[Sean]

Have you been back to El Salvador since you were a kid?

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, yeah. Many times. In fact, last year I was there and I met with President Naive Bukele.

[Sean]

Oh, nice.

[Irwin McManus]

And so we had this incredible meeting together. We both spoke at the same event on communication. And then afterwards we had some time in. And he was telling me, this is incredible, because I didn't know this about him, but he was telling me goes. There were, I think he said, five miracles that have made the transformation of El Salvador possible. This is the way the president's talking.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And because I don't know if you know this, but El Salvador was the most violent country in the world for 40 years. I remember four years or so.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And now it's the safest country in the Americas. And it's extraordinary what he's done in just five years. But he said if we did not have these miracles take place, we could not see this transformation of our country. I asked him to name them, so I started naming them. But one of them is really interesting. I think there were like five major gangs like MS.13, which is one of the most notorious gangs in the world. And he said they went to one of the gangs and said, we want you to help us capture the other gang. And then they went to another gang, said, help us capture this other gang. And he said, if the gangs had realized that we were going to get them all, they would have helped us get the other ones. But somehow they were blinded to this obvious reality that if they helped the government, eventually it would go after them and they were able to capture all the gangs. The other thing is there were at least 70,000 killers in these gangs.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And assassins. And if they had decided on one day to oppose the government's infiltration of the gangs and all of them killed one person, it would have been the most violent single day in world history. But for some reason, the gangs didn't do what they know how to do. Kill. They ran. And it's interesting, there are places in the Bible, by the way, where it says, like the Enemies of Israel ran and self destructed even when Israel didn't have any weapons or any soldiers to fight them. In a sense, God created this chaos and fear in them. And what Bukele said is there was literally a blindness and a chaos and fear that overtook the gangs because they would have won the war if they had decided to all move into violence instantly. But fear was overwhelming to them and they began running for their lives and they were captured.

[Sean]

That's a crazy story.

[Irwin McManus]

It's unbelievable.

[Sean]

That's the power of fear though, right? And that's how a lot of people live in. So they're easily manipulated.

[Irwin McManus]

And it's because evil is always driven by fear. Hate is driven by fear. No, love is not driven by fear. And so if you're not motivated by love and you're motivated by. Motivated by fear, you're always living in that dark space of what's going to do to me, what I would do to someone else.

[Sean]

So when you were there when you were super young, was that prevalent, the gang stuff?

[Irwin McManus]

Not when I was young, but I. As I was, I was around 10 years old. They wouldn't allow me to go back.

[Sean]

My brother and I, and got too dangerous.

[Irwin McManus]

The country just got worse and worse and worse. And then I went back and visited several times over the years and it was, you know, it was an incredibly violent time. I took Aaron when he was, I think around 10 years old, and we got stuck out in the jungle area and it became nighttime and I had to have one of my friends make sure he took Aaron into the jungle. And as the different troops came and dang. And, and. And it was just one of those things where no matter who came, I would just, you know, talk to him in Spanish and say, so good to see you. Holy crap. And it was a crazy world. We broke down on the side of a road and this truck came up and pulled up in front of us. And the man starts yelling in Spanish, get in the truck. Get in the truck. You'll get killed here. And so my family all jumped in the truck. My wife and daughter and uncle and aunt. And then my uncle panicked, said, go. And left me and Aaron there in the middle of the street for hours.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Irwin McManus]

And I remember when he was just a little kid and he goes, dad, why do these people have these giant swords? Because everybody carries a machete.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

I said, oh, they just use it for work.

[Sean]

Oh my gosh.

[Irwin McManus]

But it's, it was, it's an interesting, it was an interesting time and I'm so excited that the country has a new future. And what's amazing, it's the leadership of one man named Bukele, who actually decided to end corruption and create a government that was actually for the benefit of the people.

[Sean]

That is so cool. I wonder if Mexico can pull that off.

[Irwin McManus]

Every country can, you think? So they just have to decide to not take the advantage of power. Whenever someone gets elected, they always run saying they're going to end the corruption.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And then when they have all that power, they decide to become corrupt.

[Sean]

You see it all the time.

[Irwin McManus]

All the time.

[Sean]

So what made this guy so special, you think?

[Irwin McManus]

I. I think some of it's his legacy and his family. And ironically, I think his grandfather, he's from. He's actually Palestinian. Oh, Bukele is Palestinian. But it became, you know, but grew up in El Salvador. His grandfather, I believe, built the first mosque in El Salvador and won the Nobel Peace Prize, if I remember correctly. But his wife and Bukele both became followers of Jesus, and it was actually his personal faith in Jesus that drove his moral compass to try to run for president to make the country better.

[Sean]

Really?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay. Because I thought you. You normally don't mix the two, but sounds like he pulled it off.

[Irwin McManus]

He did, you know, and. And he's a really, I think, noble and an honorable person.

[Sean]

Yeah. What a cool experience. You got to meet him and chat with him.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

It was really like a once in a lifetime type of thing.

[Irwin McManus]

I'm hoping it won't be once you.

[Sean]

Got to get him on your podcast.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean]

How's your show doing? I saw you and your son film a show together, right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Me and Aaron, we have a great time on our podcast. We love it. It's so much fun, and we love the impact it has on people's lives.

[Sean]

Just nice.

[Irwin McManus]

You know, you have to love. Whenever you meet people who take you, they love the show and. And they remember something that impacted them so much.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And. And that's. That's. That's the same situation. I was just in a store the other day, and actually I was getting my haircut. This guy was in another chair, and he goes, mind shift. And I go, what? He goes, I listen to my shift every week. And I love your. You guys podcast. And I thought it just. It is fulfilling. Yeah, it's really exciting, and it's just.

[Sean]

A great way to change some lives, man. I know one person that you prevented him from committing suicide.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, wow.

[Sean]

And you don't even know him.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Sean]

Next time he sees You. He said he's going to tell you, but just wanted you to know that you're out here changing and saving lives.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Sean]

That's beautiful. It's beautiful, man. You don't realize the impact because on social media, you just see the numbers and I guess you don't, like, put faces to it.

[Irwin McManus]

Right.

[Sean]

But you can really change people, so hats off to you, man.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, you too.

[Sean]

And all the books you've written, it's. It's crazy. You're really leaving an impact.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, thank you. So, you know, one of the things I've loved is getting to meet you, getting to know you.

[Sean]

Likewise.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Because these conversations for me are really special. They're. They're a lot of fun. You always ask crazy questions, and it goes in unexpected directions, which I think makes life so much more interesting.

[Sean]

Yeah. I think it's my adhd. I'm all over the place, man.

[Irwin McManus]

That's all right. That's right. I. I got enough to match you.

[Sean]

Yeah, I love it. I'm having, like, two conversations when I'm talking to people, you know, that's just the way my brain is. I'm all over the place.

[Irwin McManus]

But I want to ask you.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Do you believe in luck?

[Sean]

Luck?

[Irwin McManus]

Because that's one of the questions you're going to ask me.

[Sean]

I was going to ask you that. Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Because I. I've been thinking about that.

[Sean]

I think I do. I think I do. I believe in karma, so I think luck kind of plays into that a little bit.

[Irwin McManus]

How would you describe luck?

[Sean]

Like when something good happens to you that's unexpected, I guess. Right. So I would call that luck.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. Because so many highly successful people who are atheists believe in luck. Because there are good things that happen to us in life that we can't explain that we know we don't deserve and that we know we're not a direct result of our work or genius, or whatever it may be. And I was thinking about this myself, and I don't think I believe in luck, but I think I believe in principles, and I believe in favor. And as I was processing this, because I do believe there are principles that if you apply them to your life, you get luckier and luckier and luckier. You know, if you put in hard work, it's amazing how much, quote, luckier you get.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

If you invest in people and love people, it's amazing how much luck you end up, because those people bring that luck into your life, in a sense. But I also believe in favor. I love this quote from Pablo Coelho, who says that the universe conspires in your favor. And I absolutely believe that the entire universe is leveraged in your direction, that God has designed the universe so that you could optimally experience the beauty of life, and if you will, apply the principles, you experience that favor. And it's that weird thing of being strangely the right place at the right time, and you can't explain it. And I look at my life, and I've had so many unexplainably good things happen to me. But I think if my perspective were different, I could also tell you I've had so many horrible things happen to me, 100%. I actually think that luck is about perception, that lucky people see the opportunity in front of them, and unlucky people are blind to the opportunities.

[Sean]

That's deep. But that makes a lot of sense because some people are walking around here saying, oh, I'm so unlucky. Yeah, when things happen to them. But then other people are like, yeah, I'm so lucky. I just won this money at the casino or something. Whatever it is.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But it's all perspective.

[Irwin McManus]

It is. It is. Five weeks ago, I was playing the sport called Padel. You know, it's that racket sport with glass all the way around. And playing against my friend John Gordon and my son Aaron. And I had this guy who was the. One of the founders of 1Oak in LA, and Aaron dinked the ball over the net just to try to stick it to me, because I was. I was ahead four games to zero, and he just wanted to score on me. And. And I ran full speed to try to stop it, heard my hamstring explode, went flying forward, was about to hit the net with my head, put my left arm down, and when I rolled over, the front part of my arm was going one direction, and then second part of my arm was going the other direction. Completely severed the elbow. And it's a moment where you could go, oh, I'm so incredibly unlucky. Right. You know, And I realized some of it was, I. I don't have impulse control. Sometimes in sports, I just love to compete. Right. You know, But I remember telling my wife a few days later, because they took me to surgeon, then I had to go to another doctor and another, you know, rehab place. And I said, if I hadn't have been injured, I wouldn't have met these incredible people. And they're already reading my books, and they're already being impacted by, you know, the thinking that I've spent my life Shaping in the books, I said. So there's some part of me that I know this quote, you know, God didn't do this to me. But I do think I have this favor on me that even when something terrible happens to me, something really good comes out of it. And I think a lot of that is perspective. I could, I could spend the whole time just going, well, why did this happen to me? Why did this happen to me? Or I could go, oh, look at all the reasons why.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

Something good come out of this.

[Sean]

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of people that face nasty injuries, car accidents or whatever, and they, they get super depressed afterwards, right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But you had the opposite approach and then you ended up meeting these stem cell people who I met at your event.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And now you're almost back to normal already, right?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, I'm doing great. I'm doing super, super well. And, and I, I think that's, I think lucky people have a different way of seeing life. And so maybe luck is something that's actually intrinsic, internal rather than external. Circumstantial, for sure.

[Sean]

Have you ever dabbled with psychedelics?

[Irwin McManus]

I haven't really. I'm insane enough to not need them.

[Sean]

I'm shocked.

[Irwin McManus]

I, I know everyone is. And you know, I. Ironically, I think I've dabbled a lot in sleep deprivation. When I was in college, I didn't go to bed for six days during finals.

[Sean]

So you were hallucinating during that?

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, I was crazy. You know, and, and I realized that a huge part of my natural like ebb and flow for my creative processes was maybe self induced, you know, sleep deprivation and just allowed me to go to crazy places and dream and imagine things. But I've, I've never done drugs and I've, I've actually never even been attracted to it because I actually, I love, I love my brain. Like, I have too much respect for my brain to do something to it that might forever alter it.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

And, and so I, I feel like, you know, if you're a world class athlete, like LeBron spends, what, a million, million and a half every year on his body? And, and to me, my brain is more important than LeBron's body. And so I just would never put something in my brain that might forever alter it from becoming its, its full, optimal self.

[Sean]

Yeah. The risk to reward ratio isn't there for you.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, it isn't for me.

[Sean]

I can see that for most drugs. Yeah. Especially with the psychedelics.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Some people take those and never come back the same.

[Irwin McManus]

And it's Interesting, because one of the things like that I noticed with different psychedelics is that it creates an odd sense of narcissism. Because when, and I've had to deal with this a lot, and I would say even with ayahuasca, where everyone has these, quote, transcendental experiences, they meet God in their own way or some higher power, and then they think they've achieved a level of enlightenment in that moment, and then they come afterwards and they crash. Because that experience is induced by an external factor. See, I want my most transcendent moments to be produced by internal factors. And so what ends up happening is that they believe they've achieved a level of enlightenment. And it's very challenging to try to speak into their life and go, hey, you're not actually doing better, and you're actually struggling with depression and they can't hear you. And so what I would say is that, you know, people say, well, you have to do the hard work. Well, the hard work was still necessary with or without the psychedelics.

[Sean]

Yeah, I could see that. Because people have this mindset where they take something and everything. Your problems just suddenly go away.

[Irwin McManus]

It's just not real.

[Sean]

It's not real.

[Irwin McManus]

No, I, I, I, you may not be that rel, you know, religiously inclined, but, you know, like, psychedelics to me are very similar to some things like Pentecostalism, you know, where you have those ecstatic experiences and in religion and, you know, you, you, you have all these manifestations. We humans want all of our life problems to be solved in one eccentric or esoteric experience.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

Whether it's spiritual or psychedelic, life doesn't change like that. Life changes when your character changes. And as you develop your character, you change your circumstances.

[Sean]

Yeah, it's an ongoing process, for sure. How do you view dreams? Because I have an interesting take on the dream world, but I'd love to hear yours.

[Irwin McManus]

Interesting enough. I have, like, a neurological condition that they told me about years ago where part of my brain's always on, part of it's always off. So I live in a continuous dream state. And I wrote a book called Wide Awake, ironically. And, and a huge part of it is I, I dream when I'm awake out of the way. Other people dream when they're asleep.

[Sean]

So you see stuff while you're awake?

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And the downside of it is, since I was probably five years old, when I have nightmares asleep, I wake up and I'm still in the nightmare.

[Sean]

Whoa.

[Irwin McManus]

It's, it's, it's a, it's really traumatic. And I. And I wish I could say I found a way out of that, but I still struggle with that. I think we were in Copenhagen, or I think Copenhagen, where Aaron and I were in a hotel and I took a nap like a three in the afternoon. I don't usually sleep in the daytime, but we were exhausted. And the moment I fell asleep, I went into the state. And then I woke up, but I was still in the dream. And I'm usually having some kind of a near death struggle. And I text Aaron or call him and I say, hurry, come here. I'm dying. I want to say goodbye. And so my son's like going down elevators trying to get to me. I'm walking down the hall, but I'm still in the dream.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

So I've had this all of my life. And so I actually think that dreams and nightmares have a very significant relationship to us, that there is no emotion you can hold without a story. The reason most of us can't change a negative emotion is that we don't change the story that holds that emotion. Every negative emotion has a story that allows it to exist within you.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

Every positive emotion has a story within you. Dreams wrap around the positive emotions you have. Nightmares wrap around the negative emotions you have. And so even in your unconscious or subconscious state, you're still telling a story that holds the emotion you're struggling with or living with.

[Sean]

So you believe your emotions manifest in your dreams?

[Irwin McManus]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

Yeah, I agree.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I used to have a lot of nightmares when I was depressed.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, me too.

[Sean]

I had bad anxiety nightmares almost every day. But that is terrifying that you wake up and you're still in the nightmare.

[Irwin McManus]

It's terrifying for my family.

[Sean]

Yeah. Because I use that when I have a nightmare. I purposely wake up and then I'm out. So it goes away.

[Irwin McManus]

It's hard because, like, Kim, you know, she's had, you know, she's married. Married to me for 40 years, so she's dealt with this a lot. And she has to, like, talk me down. She goes, you're. You're asleep. It's not real. And she tries to talk me back, and I have to ground myself. I hear her voice, but I'm in this other world, this other reality, and it's like her voice is being spoken into this other space. I'm living in that moment.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And I hear this little distant voice and I try to grab it and I go, that's what's real. But in my mind, that's the dream. And what I'm in is what's real. And I have to grab onto her voice and go, okay, that's what's real. That's what's real. And it pulls me out.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And, and it's, it's an odd thing because many times I feel like if I let go of this moment, I'm going to die.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Irwin McManus]

And so it's severely terrifying. I've died a thousand times in your dream. Yeah.

[Sean]

Wow. Because they say you don't know how to recreate that in dream setting.

[Irwin McManus]

You know what, I heard that for a long time, but I actually, I went past the point of dying in dreams.

[Sean]

Damn.

[Irwin McManus]

And, and, and experienced that state afterwards. And so I don't. I actually talk about this a whole lot, but. Yeah, but this is a part of just my own journey. Human beings are just designed in such complex ways. And I work with like three neuro clinics over the years. And, and I remember I walked into this, this neuroscientist's office and he had a blackboard and they had the word truck on the, on the wall. Then they had the word Lamborghini on the wall and all these other things written. And I said, hey, what's this? And they go, you're not supposed to be in here. I go, but I'm here, so let's talk about what's on your board. They say, well, this is a language we use internally. We don't use it with our patients. He said, some people's brains are like trucks, and you can crash them and crash them and crash them, they're going to be fine. And other people's brains are like Lamborghinis, and if you dent them, they're just broken. And if you look back, like at different athletes, let's say, like, Joe Frazier took a lot of punches, but he was just as lucid by the end of his life. You know, in his. I mean, he's still alive. I think he is. But in his later life than he was when he was young, Muhammad Ali took fewer punches, but the PTSD and the mental abuse was more severe for him. And I think it's because from a mental state, like, Joe Frazier would be more of a truck, and Muhammad Ali was more of a Lamborghini mentally. And I actually think that people who are born with a little bit more genius in them are more mentally fragile. And then people who are more grounded, maybe not with an IQ over 145 or something like that, doesn't mean they're not intelligent. They're very intelligent, but they have a more grounded personality. They're less fragile, they can take a lot more abuse. And I think that's where many times why artists are so many times depressed or really deal with mental illness or neurosis is because their brains are actually Lamborghinis that are very fragile.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

And the same kind of emotional or relational abuse that they experience caused more damage. And another kid had the same, but it didn't damage them as much.

[Sean]

I could see that. That is the one downside with high IQ.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. High IQ makes you very fragile.

[Sean]

Yeah. My dad had a 150 and he just. Yeah, very fragile.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Like you could. It was like a glass. Like he would just have anger issues and all these mental health problems. It was tough.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And so I. I think that there, you have to have a strategy to know how to understand who you are and how to best handle that. Fragility.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And, you know, and so I look at and go, I. I'm a lot of broken pieces in my brain, but I just let all the light strike through the. The cracks. And it's helped me become so much more, I think, empathetic and helpful to other people and. And I just don't see any of it as a liability anymore.

[Sean]

Wow. I love it. I wonder if learning how to lucid dream would help you. Have you looked into that?

[Irwin McManus]

How to lose the dream?

[Sean]

Lucid dream.

[Irwin McManus]

Oh, dream while you're.

[Sean]

Do you know what that is?

[Irwin McManus]

No, no, tell me.

[Sean]

Lucid dream is when you're aware you're in a dream and you can control the dream.

[Irwin McManus]

I've worked on that.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah. And. And I think there's certain dreams I have that are so overwhelming that they're very, you know, they're hard to get out of.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And I have kind of developed a process to find my way back out of them. And ironically, here's the crazy thing. In those dreams, when I. I'm. I'm dying, you know, the only thing that actually sets me free.

[Sean]

What is it?

[Irwin McManus]

To be willing.

[Sean]

Willing to die, to let go. Huh.

[Irwin McManus]

And when I'm willing to let go, I actually come back and I'm okay.

[Sean]

That is interesting.

[Irwin McManus]

It's the. It's the fear of death, not death, that has power over us.

[Sean]

Wow. So you don't fear death, though, And.

[Irwin McManus]

Well, clearly in those dreams. I know.

[Sean]

I'm just wondering why you're having that dream. Because it seems like a recurring dream for you.

[Irwin McManus]

Yes, it has been throughout my life. And, you know, I think this whole idea that people when someone says, I'm not afraid to die, my immediate thought is, then you haven't learned to love. Because the moment you love someone deeply, you're willing to die for them, but you don't want to leave them.

[Sean]

Right.

[Irwin McManus]

And so I actually think the more you love, the less you want to leave early.

[Sean]

That's a good perspective. Yeah. You don't hear the flip side of it because there are people that are like, yeah, I'll die today.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not afraid of dying. I just don't want to yet give up the beauty of what I have.

[Sean]

Right. Yeah. You got kids, you got wife.

[Irwin McManus]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Friends.

[Irwin McManus]

I got a beautiful life.

[Sean]

You do, man. And you built it from the ground up.

[Irwin McManus]

That is true. Maybe from the basement.

[Sean]

From the basement of El Salvador. Come a long way, man. Dude, it's been awesome, as always. Can't wait to do this again with you.

[Irwin McManus]

Hey, thank you so, so much. Oh, and by the way, with the seven frequencies of communication, there's an assessment that we built over the last two years. Person, go on to our website, the7 frequencies.com or to mine irwinmacvanis.com Pick up the assessment, find out. There are three core frequencies and I'd love for you to take it.

[Sean]

I'm going to take it. Yeah. I'll post the results on my Instagram.

[Irwin McManus]

That'd be cool.

[Sean]

Thanks for coming on. We'll link the book below.

[Irwin McManus]

All right, thank you.

[Sean]

See you guys.

[Irwin McManus]

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