Unlocking AI Superpowers for Entrepreneurs | Zach Wilson DSH #1267

Summary

Digital Social Hour Episode Summary: "Unlocking AI Superpowers for Entrepreneurs | Zach Wilson DSH #1267"

Release Date: March 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an in-depth conversation with Zach Wilson, a seasoned engineer and entrepreneur who has navigated the corridors of big tech giants and emerged as a thought leader in the realm of data and artificial intelligence (AI). The discussion delves into the intricate relationship between data quality and AI efficacy, the evolving landscape of AI-driven social media, Zach's transformative career journey, and his entrepreneurial ventures aimed at empowering others through AI.

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1. The Foundation of AI: Data Engineering

Zach opens the dialogue by emphasizing a crucial yet often overlooked aspect of AI: data quality. He asserts that "AI is only as good as the data that you feed it" (00:35). This foundational layer, known as data engineering, involves constructing high-quality, valuable datasets that enable AI systems to make intelligent and accurate decisions.

• Notable Quote:

  "AI is only as good as the data that you feed it." – Zach Wilson [00:35]

Zach elaborates on techniques like Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG), which integrates local data into AI models like ChatGPT to minimize inaccuracies or "hallucinations." He highlights the challenges posed by the vast and unregulated data pulled from the internet, underscoring the necessity for meticulous data curation to enhance AI reliability.

2. AI’s Influence on Social Media Platforms

The conversation shifts to the transformation of social media through AI. Zach acknowledges Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter and the subsequent improvements in combating bot activity. He notes a significant reduction in fake accounts, attributing this success to strategic AI deployments.

• Notable Quote:

  "When was the last time I saw a bot on Twitter? It's been a long time." – Zach Wilson [30:26]

Zach also explores the emergence of AI-driven interactions on platforms like Instagram, where AI chatbots facilitate more authentic and scalable engagements. He envisions a future where personal brands can leverage AI "clones" to maintain one-on-one interactions with thousands of followers simultaneously.

3. Navigating a Career in Big Tech

Zach shares his remarkable career trajectory, progressing from a $30,000 annual salary in 2014 to an impressive $600,000 in 2021 at Airbnb. He discusses the high-stress environment of big tech companies like Netflix and Airbnb, where performance expectations are stringent, and burnout is a prevalent issue.

• Notable Quote:

  "Even if a company's paying you really well and you're learning a lot, sometimes it's still not the right job for you because of, like, it's gonna burn you out." – Zach Wilson [25:06]

His tenure at Netflix provided him with profound insights into company culture and compensation structures, notably the 10-year stock options that significantly outpaced standard restricted stock units (RSUs) offered by other firms.

4. The Future of Technical Roles Amidst AI Advancements

Discussing the impact of AI on the job market, Zach predicts a shift in technical roles. While AI will undoubtedly replace some technical positions, particularly junior engineering roles, it will simultaneously amplify the capabilities of senior engineers. He envisions AI as a tool that can handle the "middle pieces" of complex projects, allowing seasoned professionals to focus on design and overarching architecture.

• Notable Quote:

  "AI is going to replace some of these technical jobs, though, for sure." – Zach Wilson [09:17]

5. The Competitive AI Model Landscape

Zach provides a comparative analysis of major AI models, highlighting the competitive dynamics between OpenAI, Anthropic's Claude, and Meta's Llama. He commends Meta's Llama model for its open-source transparency, allowing developers to scrutinize and modify the model's underlying mechanisms—a stark contrast to the "black box" nature of OpenAI's offerings.

• Notable Quote:

  "With Llama, you can actually look at what it's trained on and the weights of the model and how it makes decisions." – Zach Wilson [12:50]

He also touches upon the ethical and legal challenges faced by AI developers, particularly concerning data privacy and unauthorized model copying.

6. Entrepreneurship: Building Communities with AI

Transitioning to his entrepreneurial endeavors, Zach introduces Data Expert and Tech Creator—platforms designed to educate individuals on data and AI while fostering communities of like-minded technical professionals. Tech Creator, in particular, enables educators to build and manage their own cohorts, akin to traditional schools but tailored for technical disciplines.

• Notable Quote:

  "Data Expert is teaching people data and AI skills. And then below that is a platform called Tech Creator." – Zach Wilson [42:07]

His approach underscores the importance of community-building in the tech education space, leveraging AI to create scalable and sustainable learning environments.

7. Personal Reflections: Overcoming Burnout and Embracing Change

Zach candidly recounts his experience with burnout during his high-pressure roles at Netflix and Airbnb. This led him to take a year-long sabbatical, during which he traveled and re-evaluated his career aspirations. The hiatus proved transformative, steering him towards entrepreneurship and content creation.

• Notable Quote:

  "I think a lot of people should take a year off. It's something that, like, is very scary for some people." – Zach Wilson [25:39]

He emphasizes the value of self-discovery and the importance of aligning one's career with personal well-being rather than solely financial gain.

8. Insights on Work-Life Balance and Personal Development

Throughout the episode, Zach touches on various personal topics, including his experiences living in Puerto Rico during the COVID-19 pandemic, managing ADHD, and substance use. He discusses the delicate balance required to harness the strengths of ADHD while mitigating its challenges, particularly in high-stress environments.

• Notable Quote:

  "ADHD allows you to build that compound interest, right." – Zach Wilson [43:45]

Additionally, Zach shares his approaches to maintaining productivity and creativity, such as microdosing mushrooms and utilizing prescribed medications like Adderall responsibly.

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Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a rich exploration of the intersection between AI and entrepreneurship, viewed through the lens of Zach Wilson's extensive experience in big tech and his ventures into AI education. Zach's insights into data engineering, AI model development, and the future of technical roles provide valuable guidance for entrepreneurs seeking to leverage AI for business growth. Moreover, his personal narratives about overcoming burnout and redefining career goals add a relatable and motivational dimension to the discussion.

Listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the technical and personal facets of working with AI, underscoring the importance of data quality, ethical considerations, and the pursuit of fulfilling career paths. Zach's forward-thinking perspective serves as a catalyst for entrepreneurs aiming to unlock AI's potential in their ventures.

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Key Takeaways:

• Data Quality is Paramount: Successful AI applications hinge on the quality of data engineering behind them.

• AI Augments, Not Just Replaces: While AI may displace certain roles, it amplifies the capabilities of experienced professionals.

• Open Source Advancements: Models like Meta's Llama promote transparency and collaborative development in AI.

• Entrepreneurial Empowerment: Building communities and educational platforms can democratize access to AI knowledge.

• Personal Well-being Matters: Balancing career ambitions with mental health and personal growth is essential for long-term success.

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Connect with Zach Wilson:

• Social Media: Follow Zach on all major platforms using the handle @ZachWilson.

• YouTube: Subscribe to Data with Zach for tutorials and insights on data and AI.

• Website: Visit dataexpert.com to join course cohorts and access resources.

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This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing a structured and comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened while highlighting key moments and insights shared by Zach Wilson.

Transcript

[Zach Wilson]

He's done a lot of good for Twitter over the last, like, couple years. Like, I know. I mean, this is. That's. That's a very hot take for a lot of people in San Francisco. But, like. But, like, I know that, like, it's where the. The free speech, the. And, and. And the AI that he's doing, he's deployed so many AIs there because, like, I know. I remember 2019, 2020 Twitter, like, just so many bots.

[Unknown Host]

All right, guys, Zach Wilson here, one of the smartest guests I think I've ever had on. Thanks for joining us.

[Zach Wilson]

Awesome. I'm really happy to be here.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. What's been your main focus this year so far?

[Zach Wilson]

Just building out my company, a data expert, and just trying to teach the world about data and AI. Because AI is coming quick. It's coming really fast. It's going to be way faster than we think.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. I think people know AI is coming. I'm curious about data, though. What's important with data?

[Zach Wilson]

So one of the things that people forget about with AI is that AI is only as good as the data that you feed it, because it's all about the. The knowledge that is fed into the AI is what makes the AI smart. And so there's this underlying layer that is less sexy than AI. It's called data engineering, which is this layer of, like, building out high quality, valuable data sets that then are fed into AI, that then allow them to be smarter and make better decisions. And I think that that's. It's. It's kind of the whole, like, you got to walk before you run sort of mentality. And that's. A lot of companies get this layer very wrong.

[Unknown Host]

Even the best ones, because I've been on ChatGPT, and it'll have the wrong source, and then the answer comes out kind of wrong, you know?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And there's a lot of other interesting techniques that you can do to, like, ground chatgpt. And if you have other data that you want to bring in, this thing called rag retrieval, augmented generation, which is a way of bringing in your own local Data to allow ChatGPT to not hallucinate as much, because it's a very. ChatGPT essentially just pulls in the entire Internet. And I don't know if you know, but not everything on the Internet is true. Right. There's a lot of things on the Internet that is very, like, kind of sketchy, and it kind of just pulls it all in, and we're at the mercy of whatever those Engineers decided that was quality and what they picked and what they didn't pick, like, as they were like scraping the Internet.

[Unknown Host]

Right.

[Zach Wilson]

And so like, and that's where you can have other engineers kind of build on top of ChatGPT with your own high quality data that allows it to hallucinate a lot less.

[Unknown Host]

That makes sense. Yeah. Have you seen Apple's new AI update?

[Zach Wilson]

I have not. I don't think so.

[Unknown Host]

Like, okay, basically when you open your text now, it summarizes it for you.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, like it's, there's going to be so many cool, like, productivity changes. I mean, I use Chat, GPT and Gemini and all this stuff. Just if you're not using these things, like, you're falling behind. Right. Because it's like I've been noticing that even in my own life, like when I'm like coding or building stuff, like, I'm still hesitant to like give the control to the AI. Cause I'm like, I know what I'm doing. I don't need any AI. But then I know if I let the AI do it, I get 30 minutes back now and I can do something else or I can go have fun. Right. And enjoy my life more.

[Unknown Host]

Instagram has AIs that talk to people now.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. It's so exciting.

[Unknown Host]

It's crazy because some people get a lot of messages and they can't answer everyone.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah. And that's gonna be a much better option than like manychat. Cause I've been using manychat and manychat's decent, but it's very like algorithmic and it feels very like body. Right.

[Unknown Host]

It doesn't feel authentic.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. At all. Right. And so if you have something that's a little more AI, it has. And especially if you can train on your, and can learn who you are as a person. So then it kind of can. It talks back to the, the user and the fan. Kind of like as you. That would be. Ooh. Yeah, it's. It's going to be very amazing to see what happens with like personal brands. Because now, like, you can kind of scale yourself. Right. You can literally make clones of yourself to talk to thousands of people at the same time on like a one on one again. That is something that is, that is one of the most exciting parts of our time for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Have you made a digital twin yet of yourself?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've done that like with, in my, in my courses. We actually go over that. That's actually one of the big things I do when I teach AI, is teaching them like how to build Zach GPT, which is where we build an AI that is has all the transcripts from all my videos and all my LinkedIn posts and just consume all of that data and then build an AI on top of that and then it can like. It's scary how good it is. It's scary. I'm like when I talk to him, like, wait, that's me and. But I'm me. Yeah, right. It is exactly.

[Unknown Host]

Dude, that's nuts. How accurate are the answers?

[Zach Wilson]

Like, especially if it's going to be something that I've talked about and since I've made like 5,000 posts on LinkedIn, that's where, that's why content creators are so far ahead in this AI world, because they have created so, so much high quality information that you can just pull from. I mean that's one of the things. You're in an amazing position here too. Of all these like recordings of all these really amazing people. Like you'd be able to synthesize all of that and like there's going to be a lot of application. Hey guys.

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[Unknown Host]

Yeah, that'd be cool. I've had a companies offer just to buy my raw Data to train their AI models.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

They're going to try to do podcast AIs. Yeah, I think Google already has one.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, they have that. Where you can turn. You can turn a document into a podcast. Like, it goes the other way around, right? Where it's not. It's not like podcast the document, but you can actually turn a document into a conversation. When. When I saw that, I was like. I was like, what is going on? Like, why do we need this, though? Right?

[Unknown Host]

To be fair, some people have different learning styles. Sort of learn auditorially.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

They can retain it more than just.

[Zach Wilson]

Reading a document, definitely.

[Unknown Host]

So I could see some use case for that. But, man, those podcasts are sound super accurate.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Crazy times are in. Why do you choose to focus on LinkedIn out of every social media platform?

[Zach Wilson]

Part of it is I started on LinkedIn like, four or five years ago when I was working at Airbnb. And part of it is I had an unfair advantage on LinkedIn because I worked at Facebook, Netflix, Airbnb. And if you just say that on LinkedIn, like, you just get a million. You just get tons more views. Right. Because it's just. It's unfair. It's just how it works. Right. Credibility. Especially if you're working at Fang, right. Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, those five. Right. Then, like, you have just. Everyone's like this. Whatever this guy says is correct. Right. And there's like this unfair advantage that you get on that platform versus other platforms. And so. And then I just got to the habit of like. Like in the morning when I would go to work at Airbnb, I would go and write my paragraph on LinkedIn. And then after a while, like, I noticed, I was like, well, this is snowballing. I mean, hundreds of thousands of followers. And I'm like. Then I got to a point where I'm like, I don't think I need to work at Airbnb anymore. I think I can just do this content full time now because it's very. I can see the potential and see the momentum.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. And prior to that, you were. So your first job was 30k a year, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And you went all the way up to 600k a year?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

That's insane.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, that was in. So that was 30k in 2014 and then 600k in 2021. In seven years.

[Unknown Host]

Dude, that's insane.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I did not know jobs were paying 600k a year, if we're being honest.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. And keeping in Mind that this is not a VIP position or a director position or a manager position. No, I didn't. I had no reports. No. No one under me. Right. This is me, you making $600,000 a year writing code. Right, and writing code and producing like a lot of architecture designs and stuff to like, like further the technical vision of Airbnb and Netflix. But like, yeah, it was. No, no managers, though.

[Unknown Host]

That's nuts. Does that still exist or is AI going to replace.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, no, those roles are going. I actually think that those roles are actually going to become even more prevalent.

[Unknown Host]

Really?

[Zach Wilson]

Because there's a side of it that's like, well, if I am a technical person who knows how to do architecture and vision and concepts, one of the things that I am slowed down by is just I can only write so much code in a given day. Right. That's just, that's a. It's a fundamental thing. I can only type as much as I can possibly type. And so that's where AI is going to kind of like, if you can kind of fill out all of the bigger picture things like this database, this piece. This piece, AI can kind of fill. Fill in the middle pieces.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Zach Wilson]

This is one of the things I noticed when I quit my job and I've been building a data expert over the last year or two is when I'm writing the platform, it feels like I have five hands or six hands where I'm like, well, okay, I just have come up with the architecture and then the actual implementation. Just let Chachi PT do it and then. And it makes it so that all I have to do is come up with the design and that is. And I think that's where AI is going. So AI is going to replace some of these technical jobs though, for sure. It's not like there's no disruption here. It's especially. This is where there's the. A lot of people on LinkedIn are talking about this is like the death of the junior engineer. Because AI is going to take a lot of these junior roles. Like the people who are like trying to get into the field now. It is very difficult. It's very difficult to get like a junior entry level role in tech right now because of AI and you're competing with these roles. The. It's complicated though, because it's like, well, what do we do when all the senior engineers die? Right? Because it's like we have to have juniors now to replace them later. But like, I think that the senior. If you're a senior engineer or a staff Engineer. There's never been a better time to be in tech, actually.

[Unknown Host]

As long as you can embrace using AI.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You have to embrace using AI to like, give yourself those superpowers. But you should be actually able to make substantially more money.

[Unknown Host]

That's good. Do you see any companies catching OpenAI? Catching up to them?

[Zach Wilson]

Yes, there's a bunch of them. Anthropic is close with Claude. I alternate between those two. Between Claude and OpenAI. Those are very close. Then there's also the Chinese guys, the Deep Seq Deep Seek. They did some crazy stuff, right, where they pulled. But Deep Seek showed was that, like, any company that releases a model, you could just copy it. You could just copy it, Right. And then you can essentially steal their model. Right. And that's why OpenAI was like. It was comical what OpenAI was said, though, because they were like, deep Seek. You stole our model from the data that we stole from everybody else. Right. And it's like, kind of like. It's very comical, like, how all of this is playing out because, you know, OpenAI kind of infringed on a lot of copyright. Right. They stole so many things from the Internet that weren't legally allowed to take. Right. But it's very hard for us to sue, like an individual content creator trying to sue OpenAI. Very difficult. Right? So, yeah, but I think that that's one place. I think another important thing is I think we get caught up in this battle of these big companies. But another place is that small companies who have. Who build their own local models, that is a different way. Because another thing to think about is a lot of people don't use OpenAI because of privacy. They're not going to. Just going to ship all their data to OpenAI and be like, hey, sorry. Like. And so what they want to do is build their own models. This is where Meta. This is where Meta is. This is why this is. You know, I. I Rage quit Facebook in 2018 because I actually did not agree with Mark Zuckerberg's leadership, really. Now I actually think that Zuckerberg is doing a lot of really good, like, the stuff he's doing with Meta, the stuff he's doing with Llama. The Llama models, because the Llama models are like, essentially what OpenAI should be. Because OpenAI is like, no, we're not going to give you our model. But then the Llama models are like, here's the model. You can look at all of it. You can go all the way into it. Right? It's Very open and transparent. And that's where I really think that Meta is doing a very good job in that space.

[Unknown Host]

What's the Llama model? Exactly.

[Zach Wilson]

So it's. Llama is going to be a competitive model with GPT4. But the thing is, it's completely open source, so you can actually look at what it's trained on and the weights of the model and how it makes decisions. Because with, with GPT4 and these other models, like, you have to treat it as like a black box. It's kind of magic, right, where you just put in your prompt and then it gives you something back. But with Llama, you can actually, like, see what it's doing underneath. Right? You could, because it's open source, they give you all. Everything that it's doing. Right. And that's what Meta is all about. Right. And they have two models. They have like a 70 billion parameter one and like a 7 billion parameter one, depending on, like, how smart you need it to be or how lightweight you want it to be.

[Unknown Host]

Dang, that is crazy. Yeah. Zuck has grown on me, I'm not going to lie.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I wasn't his biggest fan. Why didn't you like him in 2018?

[Zach Wilson]

So in 2018, I left Facebook. So I worked there 2016, 2017, 2018. I worked in core growth there, like, helping them scale up users. In that period, like, we went from 1 billion users to 2 billion users.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Facebook was like, on. That was like peak Facebook in some regards. And one of the things that happened, though, in 2018 was a privacy scandal broke, this thing called a Cambridge Analytica.

[Unknown Host]

I remember that.

[Zach Wilson]

That privacy scandal broke, and it was all about, like, Facebook mishandling data and supplying way more data than was allowed. Like, it essentially made it so that, like, if you signed up for an app, you didn't just give your data away, you gave your data and all your friends data away.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

That's what it did. Right? And that was the. That was. That's the crux of the scandal. And that's what allowed the Cambridge Analytica company to harvest like. Like a million. Like it was like a hundred million accounts or something like that. Right in. And, you know, they used that to allow Trump to win. That was actually a very critical thing for Trump to win in 2016, which is. It's an interesting. An interesting result from that. Right. But personally, what happened for me was I. I found that they just didn't care about data privacy. And from my side, as someone working in data there, I, like, saw all of this negative news come in. And then I was looking at what was actually happening on the ground and on the data privacy things that were happening on the ground because Zuck was essentially being like, well, this was the past, right? Because a lot of the. A lot of the profiles and stuff was actually, like, harvested in, like, the early 2010s is like 2011, 2012. And Zuck was trying to market it as like, no, this is the past. We're a new Facebook now. And then, you know, but then I'm there looking at what was going on at the company, and I'm like, no, I see this problem and this problem and this problem, and there's still a lot of other privacy problems that I see going on right now. And so, like, I. It felt like to me that Zuckerberg was straight up just lying to my face, right. And it made me feel like I want to go somewhere else. So I left. And that's when I left and I actually joined Netflix. Cause I was like, I feel like. Because Facebook was very hated at that time, and I was like, I feel like people don't really hate Netflix. Like, they might, like, they might think that the shows suck or whatever, but they don't, like, hate it. Right? They don't like it. They're like, oh, it's boring. Or like, not that good, but no hatred there. Right? So. And Netflix is an interesting company too.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, that was before they started their originals, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, that was right. Right around then was like, when I joined and they were. They just started making those, like, big billion dollar investments. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Was it chaotic back then?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Definitely.

[Unknown Host]

Because they weren't making money back then.

[Zach Wilson]

Right. They making money. And then also my second year at Netflix, that's when they. Disney plus came out and people were like, oh, they were like, Disney. They were very nervous about what. What the implications for Disney plus were for the company. And like, yeah, the stock got cut in half. Like, people were very, like, anxious, I could tell, like, about that competition. I know they feel differently now because I feel like they actually kind of crushed it. Like, Netflix has done a very good job. It took them a couple years there to, like, find themselves again, but, like, yeah, definitely is.

[Unknown Host]

They rebounded.

[Zach Wilson]

Well, yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Now they're probably number one streaming service.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Dominant again, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Interesting. Did you see that happening?

[Zach Wilson]

I. I was not sure. I think for me, like, what ended up happening for me was I. I joined Netflix and I learned a very hard lesson at Netflix, which was that just because you have the technical ability to do a job doesn't mean it's the right job for you, right? Because Netflix is a crazy company. They, the way they pay, right, is they say, we're going to pay you your top of personal market, which means if you go and interview at another company, say I go interview at Google and they give me a 30% raise, I can take that offer back to Netflix and be like, hey, Netflix, give me a 30% raise and they'll give you a 30% because they want. Because they're like, we're going to pay you as much money as you can possibly make. That's like their whole philosophy, right? And one of the things, when I was there, I was like, this is crazy. And I was really young when I worked there. I was like 24, 25 when I was working at, at Netflix, and I, I loved it. But it was also a lot. It was very. Because, because they pay that much, they also have sky high expectations, similar to, like, you know, kind of like working at like a hedge fund or like one of those other, like, you know, those places that they just expect the moon from you. And I, I learned that, like, the thing that I was missing was I didn't actually have the social skills. I didn't have the soft skills necessary to say no to people and put up boundaries. And like, even though, like, I was able to write a bunch of code and deliver a lot of very good value, I just got super, super burnt out. And that's one of the things I learned is it's like, even. Even if a company's paying you really well and you're learning a lot, sometimes it's still not the right job for you because of, like, it's gonna burn you out. It's gonna, it's gonna be something that, like, is unsustainable.

[Unknown Host]

Right. Was that the first time you experienced burnout?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that was. I. I did. This was right before the pandemic, right? This was like January, February was when I realized I'm like, I don't think Netflix is for me. I think I need to go and do some soul searching. And it was wild because I actually put in my notice and I quit on March 2nd of 2020. And I told my coworkers, I'm like, I'm going to quit my job to travel the world. And then, you know, two weeks later, the world was like, no, you're not. No, you're not. You're not. You're not traveling the world. We're going to Shut the world down. And I was like, what? I didn't think that. I didn't think that was even possible, but. All right, like, talk about bad timing, right? Oh, yeah. Terrible timing, Right?

[Unknown Host]

So you got stuck somewhere.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, I was in Puerto Rico, actually. I got stuck in Puerto Rico for, like, a couple months because I could have left, but there was no flights out. The only way to get back to the mainland, us, Was by taking a boat. You could take a boat, right? And I was like. I was like, I'll just stay in paradise. I'll just stay here, right? Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

It's hard to beat Puerto Rico, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, it was great. I just, like, swam in the ocean every day. And just, like, it was weird, though, because Puerto Rico locked down really hard. And, like, they, like, they, like, banned the forest. They couldn't go to forest. Like, and, like, they were. And they're like, they. Early in the pandemic, like, if your license plate ended in an odd number, then you could drive Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And if it ended in even number, you could do Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. And then everyone could drive on Sundays. And, like, I'm like, I didn't think. I don't know of anywhere else that did that, right? Where they were like, you know, you can only drive half of the days, right? It's like. And they would pull you over and give you a ticket. I got a ticket for having an even numbered license plate on a Tuesday, right? And I was like. I'm like. I'm like. I was like, this is the most arbitrary bullshit I have ever seen in my life. For sure.

[Unknown Host]

What to say on the ticket, right?

[Zach Wilson]

So it was like a $50 ticket for. It was violating pandemic, like, procedures and lockdown procedures. Wow.

[Unknown Host]

At least it's only 50.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, it was only $50.

[Unknown Host]

I just got 680.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Speeding.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown Host]

I was like, how much are tickets these days? Yeah, right, dude, 686.

[Zach Wilson]

80.

[Unknown Host]

I would wreck a lot of normal.

[Zach Wilson]

100.

[Unknown Host]

If you're making, like, minimum wage, that would.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, that's like, your whole paycheck.

[Unknown Host]

That's not cool, man.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, man.

[Unknown Host]

So you live in Puerto Rico, though?

[Zach Wilson]

I did for three months. Yeah. Yeah. From, like, it was like, March to June. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Where'd you spend the last 10 months? Because you took a year off.

[Zach Wilson]

I took a year off, and then I came back, and then I got a dog. And that dog is very special to me. She's actually, like, my logo and my brand and everything. Love it. And so we did. Because I still Wanted to travel. And so I saw, I took that dog to every national park in the West. So I did everything in Utah, Arizona, like Glacier, Olympic, redwoods, like everything. And it took, I was like a three month like thing. And then I came back to San Francisco and got really stressed about the 2020 election. I don't know, like, I feel like it's interesting because my whole life has shifted because like back then I feel like I was very, very, very nervous about Trump getting reelected. I was super nervous about it. And, and this time around, right, in 2024, like, I didn't care. I didn't care. I voted third party. I didn't vote for either of them. I just didn't care. But in 2020, I was very nervous and I was like, all right, we gotta go, we gotta get Biden and we gotta get Biden in. This is freaking. Really nervous, really nervous. It's interesting to see how like that year, like media had a just a foothold with everybody. It had. It did a very good job at making people scared.

[Unknown Host]

Oh yeah.

[Zach Wilson]

And, and, and now I'm like, I don't even really care. It's like I'm like, who's president? Doesn't matter that much to me anymore. Right. And, but like back then that was the only thing I could think about. Especially like September, October, November of 2020, that was the only thing I thought about. And like after that I was like, whoa. And then in December, I. My girlfriend at the time was like, Zach, like, you got to do something with your life. You can't just like be just chilling, right? And she's like. And, and because what the, the other thing I was trying to do during that period, period was like I was just playing a lot of Call of Duty Warzone. And like, just like. Because I wanted to be like a pro Warzone player because I had a dream as a kid. I played a lot of Halo. Halo was my game and I wanted to be like a professional Halo player. And then I saw Warzone as like the new thing and I got like over 100 wins in Warzone. Okay. It was a lot. It was. Grinded it out. Yeah. And, but like I went to a couple tournaments, lost every time, got wrecked. And then I was like, okay, there's. There's always some like 16 year old Asian kid who just wants it more than I do. And then in December, my girlfriend was like, I'm breaking up with you, like you're not going to be a professional gamer. And I was like, whoa. Right. And then that's When I started making.

[Unknown Host]

Content, she broke up. Because you were addicted to video games.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, addicted to video games. And like, well, and just in a very negative headspace about the election, I was, like, two. Two very negatively obsessed about that.

[Unknown Host]

Wow.

[Zach Wilson]

And. And then that's when I was like, oh, wow, I need to, like, go get another job. And I started to make. That's when I started in December of 2020 was when I started making content on LinkedIn. And then in January was when I got the job at Airbnb. And then I started, like, just picking my life back up and started. Started moving and getting into. Getting into a much better space.

[Unknown Host]

That's cool.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It actually turned around pretty quickly for me after that, and, like, I was really exciting. Like, I. Like, I think a lot of people should take a year off. Like, it's something that, like, is very scary for some people. I know. For me, it was. The one thing that I made it easier is Netflix is. Another thing about Netflix is they say this when they hire you is they're like. They are like, it's very intense here, and if you want out, we'll give you severance because we would rather you leave, like, quickly than stay around and not and hurt the A players, essentially. That's like, they're like. They're trying to build, like, the. The dream team or the A team. Right. And so they give you four months of severance.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And that's the longest I've heard.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, I was like, okay, I'll take that. And, like. And so it made it very easy for me to quit because I was like, okay, I have, like, that's. That's good money. Good money to go and leave. And so, like, I know for other people, like, taking a sabbatical is trickier because they see this, like, cliff, like a. Like a financial cliff of, like, well, if I jump, dude, then I'm. I'll never financially recover from not working. Right? And. But sometimes what happens, right, Is I know for me, the thing that happened during that period was I discovered myself. I discovered content, I discovered writing. I discovered a lot of this, like, entrepreneurial spirit. Because before that, I had my dream was I want to be a principal engineer in big tech. I want to work at Google. I want to be the top engineer at Google. Right? That was, like, my dream job. And now. Now I look at that, and I'm like, that just seems absurd. Very absurd. That seems like a lot of stress for not that much money. It's Decent money. But like, it's like a lot of stress for not that much money versus, like what you can do building a. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Because you're probably making the same, if not more doing what you're doing now.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, Way more. Way more. Yeah. It's millions of dollars a year now. Yeah. Wow. Sure. 100.

[Unknown Host]

Way less stressed, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, way less stressed. Yeah. It's both like, it's like when I look back at my. My time at Netflix in particular, I was like, wow, I was so stressed making at the time, I thought making the most money I would ever make in my entire life. I thought, okay, right, 600k. I thought that that was, I was, I peaked. Right. It was my pinnacle. Right. And. And now I look back on that, I'm like, wow. Like I should have like, not treat as, like intensely as I did. And I think part of that's just growing pains though, of like being very new, being young, not realizing like, like what is even possible in your life.

[Unknown Host]

Right.

[Zach Wilson]

I think that that's the other big thing, that taking this year off, even though there was a lot of depression, a lot of sadness, it did unlock something in me that allowed me to see the world in a very different way. In a way of like, hey, I need to just give a lot of value and get. Get known. Get known. And that allow. That will eventually allow me to do that. And it's kind of set the stage for my now, my content creation journey.

[Unknown Host]

That's a good point though, because not a lot of people take time to reflect.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Because they're so work heavy. Like you were probably working 80 hours a week, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

So you had no time to just sit back and think what's going on.

[Zach Wilson]

It was just always about what the next deliverable was. It was all about what the next. The next milestone was and the next promotion and the next raise and the next like it was, they're very good at that in big tech. About like, they're very good about like the carrots and the sticks. Right. Where they're like, well, if you do really well, we're going to give you another hundred thousand dollars a year. But if you don't do very well, we're just going to fire your ass. Right. It's like very good, like poking you and then rewarding you. And like, they're very good at like putting you in that. And, and if you are like a certain type of person, you can thrive in that environment. You can thrive in it. And I definitely did. I definitely did for many Years, like, I, I think my personality has shifted now to a point where like, I don't think I would thrive in that environment anymore. I even, I have like this last year, I've like kind of, I, I put out some feelers just to see like what I, what kind of offers I could get in big tech. Because I interviewed at OpenAI and Meta last year just to see what was out there. Because OpenAI is like, I'm like, well, I would go work there for a year just to learn, right? Just to soak it up and. But I realized like after interviewing there, I'm like, wow, my mind is so different now. It's so different. It's like when you think like an entrepreneur and you think like a boss, it's very, like, it's very hard to go back to being an employee. It's very hard. That's like, that's something that I think in some ways, like one of the things I told myself when I quit my job was like, you can always go back. I treated it like a two way door and now that I've been doing it for a couple years, I'm like, that door was a little bit more one way than I thought it was. Right.

[Unknown Host]

Especially now that you're making more.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, right, yeah, Very difficult now that I'm making more for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Where do you side with the Open AI versus Elon stuff?

[Zach Wilson]

Ooh, that's a good one. I think in that space, like, I think Elon had a very kind of idealistic vision of OpenAI of this idea that it's going to be AI for good and AI for. It's going to be like a pure vision, like prop here for or pure nonprofit vision for that company. And in that way, like it is, it feels like OpenAI is deviating from that path, that pure intentions path. But at the same time, like, what company has ever gotten to that level being nonprofit? Like, like the only one that comes to mind for me that is even close is like the Bill of Melinda Gates Foundation. And again, the only reason they're big is because of Microsoft, right? And they all got, you know, just billions of dollars of shares of Microsoft, right? And so it's like they're just super funded by a for profit entity at the end of the day. And so like, I'm very nuanced on this because I feel like Elon has a very solid point from like an idealistic perspective of like what OpenAI should be, but then from like a perspective of like, if you actually want OpenAI to be as big as possible to reach the most number of people. It does need to be for profit. It needs to make money. It needs to like, bring stuff in and be self sustaining. Otherwise investors are just going to keep burning, burning money. Right. And that's like, where it's kind of. I'm kind of neutral. I, I don't have a great perspective on Sam Altman. I think he's kind of like in the middle. Like, he. As a leader, it seems like I, I don't really trust him. I don't really know why, though. I don't know why. There's something about. I, I trust Elon a little bit more than Sam Altman in terms of like just those two Personas and that's. I know it's.

[Unknown Host]

Well, Elon's all about transparency, right?

[Zach Wilson]

He is for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Like, even though it sounds like you're. You're not a conservative, but like, he, at least he's honest.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

He's showcasing what's going on right now, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Definitely.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. So I like that he's doing that on Twitter.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah. I love Twitter for that reason. I actually, I feel like he's done a lot of good for Twitter over the last, like, couple of years. Like, I know, I mean, this, that's, that's a very hot take for a lot of people in San Francisco. But like, but like, I know that, like, it's where the, the free speech, the. And, and the AI that he's doing, he's deployed so many eyes there because, like, I know, I remember 2019, 2020. Twitter, like just so many bots, so much. So many fake accounts, so much. Just. Just crap, right? And now I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, when was the last time I saw a bot on Twitter? It's been a long time. I feel like I might see like one bot a month now or something like that. It's very rare. It's actually, he's done a very good job of either, like, pushing that content down or like, the spam filters are very good now.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, he said he would do that.

[Zach Wilson]

Too and bought it and he delivered. It's crazy that he did that. And he delivered on making the product better with 20% the engineers, right? With like, he's like, I'm gonna fire 80% and make the product better. Like, those two things together, like, feel like, whoa, Right?

[Unknown Host]

How did that make you feel because you're an engineer?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I had a lot of friends who actually got let go from that and I actually. Okay. Personally, I actually benefited from that a little bit because I got some referral bonuses from to Airbnb. So, like, some of my friends went jump from Twitter to Airbnb because, like, he did let go talented people. He'd let go, like, brilliant, talented people, too, because, like, if you fire 80, you're not just gonna fire the bottom 80, right? You're gonna fire. You're definitely gonna let go people who have good skills, too. So, like, I personally think it makes. It made sense in some regards because, like, there's a side of it that's like, you need to have, like. Because at Netflix, right? Netflix is a company that. Their headcount is. They're very lean. They're very lean on headcount. That's because they. Their goal is to essentially let go 5 to 10% of the company every year. They have that, like, that's the part of. That's, like, the intensity of it. It's like, you need to be an A player, otherwise we're going to let you go. And so that's where Twitter wasn't like that. Twitter was kind of ran like. I don't know, like, kind of like a. Like, it was kind of like a liberal agenda machine. It was very, very, very bizarre. Like, that that company in particular had a lot of bloat to it, right? That, like. So there was a side of it, like, do I think 80% was a little bit excessive? Probably, right? But 50% is probably, like, what was necessary, right, to actually get it to where it needed to go, right? So, like, yeah, it's. Initially, I definitely. It was funny, too, because this is another thing where, like, I feel like my mind has changed, right? Because when Elon bought Twitter, and I definitely was part of that group of people who were like, fuck Elon. We're going to Mastodon. I hate Twitter, right? And then I went. I got on Mastodon, and I have, like. I have, like, almost 10,000 followers on Mastodon. I know. I'm never on Mastodon now at all, ever. Not even once. Because it's like. It kind of like, there was like, this big spike when everyone hated Elon, and then it just kind of died out because it doesn't have the stickiness that Twitter does, because that's where Jack Dorsey did a good job. He built a really good product. Twitter is a great product. Like, at its core, the soul of it is really good. And that's where, like, when you try to, like, replicate it, you need. You need something else. That's why Blue sky you know, is kind of in that space a little bit because it's kind of more. That is kind of has his soul in it, but, like, it's still. Still doesn't beat Twitter.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, Twitter pretty much put Clubhouse out of business. Twitter Spaces.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Like, Clubhouse was hot.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I actually interviewed at Clubhouse when it was at its peak, and, like, I got rejected, and I was depressed about that initially. I was like, dude, because I thought I got rejected from, like, the next Facebook, like, from the next. I thought I was going to get in really early.

[Unknown Host]

It was hot.

[Zach Wilson]

It was so hot. But then it just gone. Right. Just because Twitter Spaces is the same thing. It's just like his Clubhouse is a feature in other apps. Right.

[Unknown Host]

So what do you think caused them to fall off?

[Zach Wilson]

I think that's a big part of it, is that they weren't able to capitalize on that attention of, like, building out other spaces because, like, you need to have more than that. Like, it's like. It's similar to, like, you know, like, Skype. Skype's, I think, another interesting example of a company that's, like, where they did video call, right? And they actually were. Skype was also very big for a while. Like, there's a lot. A lot of people, you know, and, you know, they're actually getting rid of Skype. They're. They're decommissioning it in, like, next couple months. It's, like, going under, right? Skype is gone forever. And, like, I think part of it is you need to capitalize on that moment and get people to adore the brand. But Clubhouse as a brand was never, like, it didn't. They didn't do a good job. They didn't do a good job of, like, building a brand that was, like, sticky of, like, I like this platform. You went there because there was cool people there. They kind of, like, they put themselves in a very precarious situation of, like, they were like, oh, the famous people are here, so everyone is here. But then when those people left, it's like, okay, now no one's here. And it's like, kind of dies out, like, where. It's like, they kind of. Whereas, like, other places, they have more sticky, like, grassroots kind of communities. That's why I think, like, you know, places like Facebook, even though people say Facebook's dying, like, there's also so many, like, you think about, like, all, like, the. I don't know, like, the mom groups on Facebook. And, like, I know I'm a part of like this Magic the Gathering group on Facebook that I'm like, I know these like grassroots communities are never, ever, ever going to leave Facebook. And so they have that stickiness to them where Clubhouse was like, it was like a blockbuster, like one hit pon, one trick pony, like one hit wonder. And they didn't like do anything grassroots and they just kind of capitalized on viral. And once that sugar high ran out, it was like, I guess we're going to go somewhere else.

[Unknown Host]

Fell off quick.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure. It was like, it was like a year. Right.

[Unknown Host]

And I feel like Snapchat too kind of fell off.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, definitely.

[Unknown Host]

I don't use Snapchat anymore.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

I used to use it all the time. Didn't they get Zuck?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

You try to buy them, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, that was, that was a while ago though, that, that was when they were on the up, for sure. I think that like that was back when their shares were at like 30 or $40. And I think they're at like $10 now. Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Did you hold all your stock from all the companies?

[Zach Wilson]

No, I, I mean, I only Netflix. I'm very long Netflix. I have not. I've, I've hodled that for freaking like, because Netflix, their compensation structure is very interesting where like, so they pay you all cash. Right. Which is different from other companies. Most companies, especially when you're like a senior or a staff engineer, 60 to 70% of your money is actually in stock and 30% is in cash. Whereas at Netflix, they pay you all cash, but then they also allow you a sliding scale. So they're like, okay, well we're going to pay you 100% cash, but you can also pick whatever percent you want as options. And it's. So it's like a leverage scale. And for me, I picked 15% of my money to be paid out as options. But these options are very special because, you know, most options that you buy on the market, they, you can buy a two year horizon. So it's like you buy it and then you have to exercise in the next two years. That's the longest, the longest dated option. You can buy it publicly, but the options that you got at Netflix were 10 year options.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

So like, and so for me, like my, my, my first options were in 2018, so I have to exercise like in 2028. And so I'm like, just keep holding. Oh, and they have gone to the moon, dude, because they're options. So they're leveraged too. Right. So it's like, in that time, Netflix has done 200%, but that position has done like 1,000%, right. Because of the leverage involved with options.

[Unknown Host]

Holy crap.

[Zach Wilson]

So, like, definitely, like, Netflix is a crazy company in that way. Whereas, like, other companies like Facebook and Airbnb, they pay you in just like, regular stock. Like RSU is like restricted stock units, which is like the more traditional way of doing things. That's why Netflix is a wild company. They definitely, like, they're successful for that reason, though. They're successful because they're different.

[Unknown Host]

I could see that. So you sold the Facebook stock?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure I did. I mean, I shouldn't have. I definitely was right about Airbnb, though. I was right about. Because Airbnb has been like, that one crashed. I, I, I lost an unbelievable amount of money on Airbnb because, like, because I joined Airbnb one month after IPO, right? And, and so the stock was at like 200. And so I joined as a staff engineer, which is like, like that's like a top 1% engineer in big tech. And so I got like $1.5 million in stock just for joining. Yeah, but, but it's over four years, so. Over four years. So I get that money over four years. So it's like something like 300, 400k a year in stock over four years. But the thing was, is, like, that's at the $200 price point. And then the stock went from $200 to $80. So the 1.5 mil turned into like 500k. And I was like. And that was in six months. And I was like, I was working at Airbnb for six months and I was like, I just lose $1 million in six months. Like, what is going on? Like, this company is like, what is what? And like, it was like, because. And the, it hasn't come back. It hasn't come back. Like, Airbnb has been, has been trading flat, right? It's been like, it's been between like 100 and 150 for the last, like, five years. Right? And it has been just very, like, because they're having a harder time. They have a lot of, like, pressures, a lot of, like, regulatory things, right? Where you know, they're getting pushed out of New York City. They're like, there's a lot of different things going, you know, band here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Because it's, it has a lot of negative effects on community. Communities. Because it's like, what if you want to rent a long term apartment? Because what it does is like, is Airbnb is a more profitable way to use your space. And so it's like, landlords are incentivized to do short term rentals at the expense of people looking to do long term rentals. And it's like long term rental people should not have to pay more money just because there's less supply. Right. And so there is a. It's an interesting trade of like, okay, how do we like, balance these two things so that like, landlords are able to still get the right balance of that with. But Airbnb I think, should exist. I think it's like a very good thing that allows for you to have a more authentic travel experience than like a sterile, like, Marriott or like, you know, Hilton experience that's just literally exactly the same in every country on the earth or whatever. And like, but it's like, how do you balance that so that the long, the long term residents do not suffer? And I think that's like a. It's a very hard balance. Like, because, you know, New York, what they do is like, okay, you can do an Airbnb, but it's like you have to book for like 30 days.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

Right. And it's like, yeah, it's essential to book a month. Right. And it's like, it's like. And that's too long. Yeah, that's way too long. Right. It's not short term anymore. Right.

[Unknown Host]

I don't like leaving my dogs for more than like, like three days.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. Right.

[Unknown Host]

I got two dogs.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Dogs are great. I got. I got a dog too.

[Unknown Host]

I know you got a husky.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown Host]

I taught my Australian shepherd how to howl.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, yeah, that's great.

[Unknown Host]

Huskies can howl, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. My dog howls all the time.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Dude, that. The noise of howling is just so soothing.

[Zach Wilson]

It is. It is. For sure. I love that. When I'm like, hey, Lulu. I woo. And she's like, it's like so good. I love it, man.

[Unknown Host]

If you could be any animal, what would you be?

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, so my spirit animal is a giraffe. I'm a giraffe. I like, I like, I'm very. I find giraffes to be very, like, otherworldly. They feel like they shouldn't exist on this planet. In some ways they feel like they're from another planet. And I always feel kind of out of place. Like I'm. I'm between like a giraffe and like, I don't know, something like, like a. Something fast. Like a cheetah. Like that. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

It'd be fun to have that speed.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

I go eagle usually.

[Zach Wilson]

Eagle's good. Oh, you can fly. Fly around. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

The predator. Because you don't want to be prey.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, definitely not.

[Unknown Host]

It's a tough life out there.

[Zach Wilson]

Being a rabbit would be terrible.

[Unknown Host]

No. Terrifying.

[Zach Wilson]

You get a lot of sex, but that's it.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, man. You ever want to start your own company?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have a company. Data Expert.

[Unknown Host]

Well, no, like your own app or something.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh, my own app. Yeah. So Data Expert is actually, it's a double play. So I have, my Data Expert is teaching people data and AI skills. And then below that is a platform called Tech Creator. So Tech Creator is a platform that allows people to build their own communities. Have you ever heard of school? Yeah, so it's similar to that. Like it's similar to school, except the difference is like, it's for technical people, it's for people who teach code or teach data, and it allows them to build their own cohorts. And so Data Expert is one community on the Tech Creator platform. So that's my app that I build. So I do two plays at the same time because, like, I want to build long term value here too. Not just like teach, because I love that. Because I get very, like, I'm very adhd, so I have to like, if I'm doing too much content, I get burnt out, but if I'm doing too much code, I get burnt out. So I have to like, kind of do a little bit of everything to like soothe the brain, find that balance. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I actually have ADHD too.

[Zach Wilson]

Oh yeah?

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. But some people these days say it's a superpower.

[Zach Wilson]

It is, it is. I, I, it's a balance. Right. I think that there's a side of it that is very, very useful. It allows you to lock in and focus and like that hyper focus part of it of like, I'm gonna do this one thing every day for seven years, right? When and a lot of people look at you and like, dude, that guy's, that guy's nuts. Like, but then, but then you look at it like, because what, 80 the hyper focus. And that kind of like addictive kind of side that ADHD has is it allows you to build that compound interest, right? Of like, I mean, being able to like, what you've been doing. Like you're doing like eight episodes today or something like that.

[Unknown Host]

I'm not even tired.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, not even tired. It's like, you're like, I could do 16 and like, and then it's it's. It's the combination of doing the intensity that you can do in one day multiplied by the consistency that you can do over years, and then that creates this compound interest effect that like ADHD people are able to generate more. Right. And that's the whole, like, you know, if you have ADHD, you're 700% more likely to start your own business.

[Unknown Host]

Damn, I didn't know that's the stat.

[Zach Wilson]

And you're also like 100 more likely to get divorced. Right.

[Unknown Host]

So it's like, that's scary.

[Zach Wilson]

There's. And the data is really crazy. So like. And like, you know, the ADHD also, on average, takes nine years off your life.

[Unknown Host]

No.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Why?

[Zach Wilson]

A couple things there, like, ADHD people are a lot more likely to, like, smoke. Smoking is a big part of it. So if you're an ADHDer who doesn't smoke it, the data looks a lot better. Right. Like cigarettes or weed. Cigarettes. Cigarettes in particular. And that the jury's still out on weed in terms of like, it seems like with weed, the big thing is, like, it only has a really negative effect on your life expectancy if you smoke more than 21 times a month.

[Unknown Host]

Damn.

[Zach Wilson]

So, like, which is not. Not that many people smoke that much. Right. It's like, essentially. But those are the people who, like, smoke weed every day. Those guys. Those guys exist. That was me for a long time, actually. And yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

You didn't get drug tested at the companies.

[Zach Wilson]

I only in Utah when I, where I grew up, I got drug tested in for those couple jobs, my first couple of big data jobs in Utah. The big tech companies do not drug test.

[Unknown Host]

Really?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. At all. Oh, wow. Yeah. I haven't had a drug test in like 10 years.

[Unknown Host]

I thought they did for some.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not. Like, the last. My last drug test was for research Innovations. I worked there in 2016. They were like a military contractor for the US government. That makes a lot more sense for them, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I guess they don't care as long as you're productive.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Right. Well, like, I think there's a side of it where is like such a large percentage of programmers smoke weed that like, it's similar to like the nsa, Right? The NSA used to have a very strict no cannabis policy, and they actually removed that because there was not enough cybersecurity people who don't smoke weed to fill the roles. Right. So they had to actually relax that policy in order to get enough hackers on the team at the nsa. And so I'm sure the big tech companies are very aware of that as well, of, like, the number of people. And it's like they're all in California too. So it's like. I know for me, there's a side of it where I'm like, I'm drawn to California for that reason, too.

[Unknown Host]

So that's interesting because when I smoke it, I get lazy. But for you, does it make you more focused?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, a little bit. It depends. I think for me, there's a side of it where I have rules with it, right? Where it's like, my rules are, like, if I'm smoking in the a.m. my life is a mess. Right? It's like, for me, my rule is usually I can only smoke after 7:00pm 7:00pm after 7:00pm, like, it's fine. It's fine, right? It does allow me to kind of chill, right? Allows me to be more content because my mind is like a. You know, it's a. I have a Ferrari mind with bicycle brakes, right? So it's, like, very hard for me to, like, stop. And that's where cannabis is just.

[Unknown Host]

That makes sense, right?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure. I. I wouldn't say I use it to be productive. It is good for writing, I've noticed. It's good to. For, like. Like, coming up with, like, divergent thoughts, like, thinking, like, kind of sideways. It's very bad for thinking convergently and, like, trying to, like, like, solve a specific problem, but thinking about all the problems that you could solve. It's better for, like, brainstorming.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. The crazy part about cannabis, to me, like, for you, said, it calms you down. For me, it gives me anxiety.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

And the same thing. We're smoking the same cannabis, but just different effects.

[Zach Wilson]

And. And, well, and there's data. And I think, for me, I saw. I took a break, like, back in September. I have not. I have not smoked since September because, like, it's been like, six months now. And one of the reasons was, like, I. I read a lot of data on this stuff. So cannabis, for a lot of people, it does calm them down in the moment. But then if you look at the data over. Over 14 days or a month, they actually have higher levels of anxiety throughout the day. Oh, wow. So, like, it does when they're smoking, they're calmed down, but then, like, you. You pay a cost just the rest of the time. It's similar, like, with people who drink, right? It's very similar to. With people who drink because they have the same thing where they. They drink to calm their nerves, but then their. Their GABA is all out of whack for the rest of the. The rest of the week or the rest of the month because it's like, they're. They need to get their GABA back in balance to, like, not have anxiety.

[Unknown Host]

Interesting. That is so fascinating. Was that your only substance that you were doing?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, I mean, well. So, I mean, I. I'm prescribed Adderall for adhd. I. So that one's like. I don't like to use the word. I do. Adderall makes it sound like a drug. Right. When it's like, I'm prescribed Adderall, it's what I use for my medical diagnosis.

[Unknown Host]

Do you take it every single day?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, I'll. I'll take a break, like, maybe every 10 days or so, because there's a. There's a point where I'm like, dude, I just need to have, like, a really nice, amazing day of sleep, because it does. I notice it does, like, take, like, 10% off the top on my sleep, which is not great.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Zach Wilson]

But, like, it's. It's worth it to me because it makes it so I can get all my stuff done. And then the one day I don't take it, then I sleep amazingly, and that, like, allows my brain to, like. Like, reset.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I'd be curious if you would microdose mushrooms.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Oh, microdosing is great. I mean, that's a big thing because they. It's decriminalized in San Francisco now.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, no.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. You can literally do it. And, like, I tried that in 2022. One thing about that that I've noticed is, like, getting the dose right is hard. It's like. Like, whether you're doing, like, 0.1 or 0.2 grams. And I noticed with that, like, I did that for a while. The only thing is, like, my stomach just doesn't tolerate it as well. Like, it's like, it. I. It works. It actually gives me a very similar effect to Adderall. But, like, then I'm like. But I have, like, this, like, queasy stomach the whole time, and I'm like, oh, dude, I wish. This is so close. It's so close to, like, the perfect, like, supplement, but it's just a little bit off.

[Unknown Host]

Once they could fix that.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Hopefully they can figure that out. But, yeah, some of it grows on, like, cow poops.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Makes sense. Right?

[Unknown Host]

I just had it. Yeah. And I got nauseous. I got pale. Yeah. It's rough, but, dude, it's been awesome. Where can people learn from you and keep up with you?

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, the big ones are going to be. My socials are going to be. Exactly. That's my handle everywhere. And my YouTube is data with Zach. It's gonna be the big one. That's my website data expert. I do. I run a bunch of cohorts. If you're very interested about becoming very dedicated about learning AI, that's where you can join my academy.

[Unknown Host]

Perfect. Yeah, check them out, guys. And stock up on AI Domain.

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah, let's go.

[Unknown Host]

See you guys, like.