Vegan to Carnivore: How Meat SAVED My Life and Mental Health | Judy Cho DSH #943

Summary

Digital Social Hour Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode Title:
Vegan to Carnivore: How Meat SAVED My Life and Mental Health | Judy Cho | DSH #943
Release Date: December 2, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Judy Cho

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1. Introduction to Judy Cho's Journey

In this compelling episode of the Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes Judy Cho, a former management consultant turned nutritionist, who shares her transformative journey from a plant-based to a carnivore diet. Judy delves into the profound impact this dietary shift had on her mental health and overall well-being.

2. Struggles with Plant-Based Diet and Mental Health

Judy opens up about her two-decade-long commitment to a plant-based diet, which initially aligned with her ethical beliefs and academic background from UC Berkeley. However, she encountered significant health challenges, including severe depression and an eating disorder.

Judy Cho [04:19]: "Something along the way of having the eating disorder, my plant-based diet, as well as getting on the antibiotics. I had a mental breakdown and my family put me in a mental hospital."

Despite adhering to various therapeutic interventions like intuitive and mindful eating, Judy found no relief. The turning point came after facing postpartum depression exacerbated by antibiotics, leading her to a critical decision.

3. Transition to the Carnivore Diet

Encouraged by a friend's suggestion, Judy decided to experiment with the carnivore diet—a decision born out of desperation and hope for healing.

Judy Cho [05:20]: "It wasn't until a friend said, why don't you try this crazy diet called the Carnivore diet. And I said screw this, I'm going to just try this."

Within two weeks of adopting a meat-based diet, Judy experienced a remarkable decrease in binge eating and a significant improvement in her mental state.

4. Impact on Mental Health and Addiction Recovery

The carnivore diet not only alleviated Judy's depression but also curtailed her food-related addictions. She emphasizes the interconnectedness of gut health and mental well-being.

Judy Cho [05:51]: "And then changing my diet... I've never had depression like I used to struggle with."

Her experience underscores the potential of dietary interventions in managing mental health issues, highlighting the role of nutrition in psychological wellness.

5. Nutrition, Bioavailability, and Gut Health

Judy provides an in-depth analysis of nutrient bioavailability, contrasting the absorption rates of plant-based versus animal-based nutrients. She explains how toxins and anti-nutrients in plants can impede nutrient absorption, leading to deficiencies despite high intake.

Judy Cho [10:23]: "When you eat a carnivore diet and you remove a lot of the toxins, including plant toxins, your gut is able to heal... Your gut starts having less leaky gut and inflammation in the body."

She discusses the superiority of heme iron from meat over non-heme iron from plants, illustrating how the body more efficiently absorbs nutrients from animal sources.

6. Views on Vaccines and Raw Milk

The conversation shifts to controversial topics such as vaccine safety and raw milk consumption. Judy expresses skepticism about the current vaccination protocols, particularly concerning the high number of vaccines administered to children.

Judy Cho [19:54]: "If you're the immunocompromised, but if you get the vaccine, you'll get sick, then who is this vaccine for?"

Regarding raw milk, Judy advocates for its nutritional benefits while cautioning about sourcing and potential contamination.

Judy Cho [15:07]: "Raw goat's milk actually had the most nutrition and the bioavailability and the similarities to breast milk."

7. Parasite Exposure and Gut Integrity

Judy emphasizes the importance of gut health and the risks associated with parasites, linking them to both physical and mental health issues. She shares personal anecdotes about parasite exposure and the necessity of maintaining a clean gut environment.

Judy Cho [25:14]: "Parasites can probably dictate your mental health. A lot of other stuff."

8. Conflict with the Plant-Based Community

Judy reflects on the tensions between the carnivore and plant-based communities, acknowledging their shared goals of achieving optimal health but diverging methodologies. She critiques the plant-based diet for its potential to cause nutrient deficiencies and gut dysbiosis.

Judy Cho [30:16]: "I think the plant-based community... when your health goes away and you have nothing left, you're in a mental hospital, you have to question, am I being taught the right things?"

9. Meat Quality, Supplements, and Misconceptions

Addressing concerns about meat quality, Judy discusses the variability in meat sourcing and the often misleading marketing of high-quality meats. She argues that even lower-grade meats can offer substantial health benefits if sourced responsibly.

Judy Cho [36:08]: "I was plant-based, so I get it... by eating most of the muscle meat, it won't be there because most muscle meat does not store toxins like liver."

She also critiques the overreliance on supplements like liver capsules, highlighting the risks of excessive nutrient intake.

Judy Cho [40:02]: "You have to take 32 capsules of the liver supplements to get your folate daily value... you're at thousands of excess in daily value of your vitamin A."

10. Blood Work, Health Markers, and Functional Testing

Judy underscores the limitations of standard medical blood tests, advocating for comprehensive functional testing to uncover underlying health issues. She challenges the conventional reference ranges, which often consider the average (and sometimes unhealthy) population metrics as "normal."

Judy Cho [34:45]: "The standard care ranges are based on the average person... if all of America, half the people are obese, the range becomes more skewed towards unhealthy."

11. Final Insights and Community Support

Concluding the episode, Judy emphasizes the necessity of personalized nutrition and the importance of community support in navigating dietary transformations. She encourages listeners to conduct their own health experiments and seek professional guidance tailored to their unique needs.

Judy Cho [50:11]: "I was sick and I now I'm just giving back... it's truly a passion."

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Key Takeaways

• Diet and Mental Health: Judy Cho's transition from a plant-based to a carnivore diet significantly improved her mental health, reducing depression and eating disorders.

• Nutrient Bioavailability: Animal-based nutrients are generally more bioavailable than plant-based, reducing the risk of deficiencies.

• Gut Health: Eliminating plant toxins and focusing on meat can heal gut integrity, reducing inflammation and leaky gut syndrome.

• Critique of Standard Practices: Judy challenges conventional dietary guidelines, vaccine protocols, and standard blood test reference ranges, advocating for more personalized and functional approaches.

• Community and Support: Transitioning diets, especially to something as restrictive as carnivore, requires strong personal motivation and community support.

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Notable Quotes

• Judy Cho [05:20]: "It wasn't until a friend said, why don't you try this crazy diet called the Carnivore diet. And I said screw this, I'm going to just try this."

• Judy Cho [10:23]: "When you eat a carnivore diet and you remove a lot of the toxins, including plant toxins, your gut is able to heal."

• Judy Cho [34:45]: "The standard care ranges are based on the average person... the range becomes more skewed towards unhealthy."

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Further Resources

• Judy Cho's Book: Carnivore Cure
• Website: Nutrition with Judy
• Social Media: Follow Judy for more insights on carnivore nutrition and holistic health.

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This summary encapsulates Judy Cho's insights and experiences shared during the episode. For personalized health advice, consult with a healthcare professional.

Transcript

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[Judy Cho]

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[Judy Cho]

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[Judy Cho]

See [e-mail] and something along the way of having the eating disorder, my plant based diet, as well as getting on the antibiotics, I had a mental breakdown. My family didn't know what to do with me so they put me in a mental hospital. I did everything they told me. Intuitive eating, mindful eating. Nothing worked. It wasn't until a friend said, why don't you try this crazy diet called the Carnivore diet. And I said screw this, I'm going to just try this. Getting and changing my diet. I've never had depression like I used to struggle with.

[Host]

All right guys, got Judy Cho today. We're gonna talk talk some healthy things today, aren't we?

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, I'm excited to be here and thanks for having me.

[Host]

Absolutely. So I found you from Michaela show.

[Judy Cho]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I wasn't sure how you found me, but that's cool because I know you're not part of the carnivore space. Fully.

[Host]

I'm not fully, but I'm shifting.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

But I keep hearing mixed things so I can't wait to talk to you about it actually. Okay. So when it comes to me, are you fully carnivore right now?

[Judy Cho]

I'd say I'm more meat based. It depends on who you're talking to. So obviously there's like a subset of the community that's super strict. Meaning that they only eat from the animal kingdom, land, sea and water. And then if you eat anything beyond that, coffee, teas, sugar free stuff, then you're not part of the carnivore community.

[Host]

Even coffee.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So because it's from a plant, it's from a. So in that nuance. But I try not to be dogmatic because I mean, my living is mostly through a private functional medicine practice. And so for that reason I'm not super strict. I was super strict for the first three years of carnivore and this last four years it's more meat based. But I mean, like today I've had nothing but meat.

[Host]

Got it. And you made this shift because you were dealing with some health problems, right?

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So I was a management consultant. That was my career. I was going to be a partner in a consulting firm and knew really nothing about nutrition. But I grew up in L. A and I got really sick. I went to UC Berkeley and then I became plant based there because that's the sort of narrative and I totally fell into it. And then I stuck to it for about 12 years and I started struggling with an eating disorder and mood disorders and severe depression. And I never once was told that it was actually my diet or it could be related to my diet. So I continued to just eat that way and I was getting help, was going through therapy, nothing was fully working. Then I had my first son and in the process of nursing him, I was six months into nursing him and I got mastitis. So I had an infection in my breast tissue and I had to take antibiotics. And something along the way of having the eating disorder, my plant based diet, as well as getting on the antibiotics. I had a mental breakdown and I was sent. My family didn't know what to do with me, so they put me in a mental hospital. We have a psychiatrist in the family, he says she needs to go. They put me on antipsychotics and antidepressants.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And I don't remember a lot of my memory. Then they told me that I probably suffered from severe postpartum depression and that I should go to an eating disorder facility to work on all of that. I did all of that. I did everything they told me. Intuitive eating, mindful eating. Nothing worked truly. Out of pure desperation, I started a keto diet, but still plant based. Helped a little bit, not enough. So I was adding the fat back. But it wasn't until a friend said, why don't you try this crazy Diet called the Carnivore diet. And I said that is crazy. I haven't eaten meat in 12 years. And but it was at my lowest low. I was in front of the toilet struggling with my eating disorder again. Now I'm trying to care for my child, but I keep prioritizing this addiction, this illness. And I said, screw this. I'm going to just try this because there's these crazy stories of people healing and I really need to get my life back. And so I started two weeks in the physical hunger, the need to binge and not care for anything but to go binge went away.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And the mental side of turning to food, turning to an addiction changed. And I needed to go through therapy to do that because I don't think food fixes everything, but it can fix a lot. And that changed my life. Then I got mad and for all because in the in the eating disorder long term facility they said that I was broken and that I had to take psych psychiatric meds for the rest of my life.

[Host]

Geez.

[Judy Cho]

And then getting and changing my diet. I've never had depression like I used to struggle with.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And so I am now just trying to give back because I got my life back and I don't want other people to suffer like the way I did.

[Host]

That's incredible. I could see why Michaela had you on because she dealt with something similar, right?

[Judy Cho]

Yes. So I think she, I mean hers also had an autoimmune related illness, but I think she had me on primarily because when Carnivore is not working enough or. And it's not that because there's a better diet, but that there's. The diet itself is not just the issue. It could be environment as well. And so we talked a little bit more nuanced about the environment too.

[Host]

Yeah. And a lot of people don't.

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[Host]

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[Judy Cho]

Yeah, so I was told that I had a serotonin imbalance, something I was born genetically with slight minor depression and so why not just take a serotonin reuptake inhibitor or an ssri? And I was on Zoloft for a few years and if I take that then I should have a better balance of my moods. But that didn't work enough and so then I ended up getting on antipsychotics and all of those other medications. And when I got on a carnivore diet. There's so many reasons why a carnivore diet can heal you. Because first of all, most of your serotonin is in your gut. And yes, a lot of that serotonin won't go back to your brain. But there's a, they communicate because they're neurotransmitters. And when you eat a carnivore diet and you remove a lot of the toxins, including plant toxins, processed foods, your gut is able to heal. And as your gut is healing, I mean, 80% of your immune systems in your gut. So not only does your serotonin and all of those neurotransmitters start healing and they can improve, your gut starts healing, you start having less leaky gut and inflammation in the body. And then the more recent research shows that leaky, leaky gut is leaky brain. And so it's very, very.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

One and the same.

[Host]

That's crazy. And a lot of people have gut issues right now.

[Judy Cho]

Absolutely. I think the statistic is 95% of people have low stomach acid. And with low stomach acid, you're not able to break down your food. So it's not only you're eating the best foods with the most nutrients by available, but it's the bioavailability of the nutrients. So your body has to be able to absorb the nutrients. So for example, one reason that meat is more beneficial is because the nutrients are more bioavailable. As an example, we can talk about iron. When I was plant based, I should have known. So when I had my first pregnancy, my ob GYN told me I was anemic and so my iron levels were really low. And so she said, get on supplements. I didn't think anything of it, but during that time I was eating a pound of spinach every single day. And that has a ton of iron. What I've learned through nutrition is that the bioavailability of iron from spinach is very, very low compared to the bioavailability of iron in meat. So even if your gut is messed up, the chance of you absorbing the iron from the meat is much higher than the iron in spinach, for example.

[Host]

Wow, that's good to know. Because people just look at what amount of iron is in the food, but not how much they're absorbing.

[Judy Cho]

Right, right. And that is not shown anywhere. And so until. And that's why they call the iron in vegetables is known as Non heme iron versus the iron in meat is heme iron. And there's so many different examples of same thing with vitamin A. The, the carrots, for example, they have beta carotene, but it has to convert into vitamin A to get absorbed. But on the package it'll say it has X amount of vitamin A, but it's not true unless you can absorb it. And there is a certain subset of people that genetically cannot do that breakdown. So all that beta carotene is just getting pooped out. So it's all of these nuances that you will never know unless you really look into nutrition.

[Host]

Yeah. Because people have these gene breaks or mutations that they don't even know about. I just found out I had the MTHFR one. Right. Which 50% of people have. And I was eating bread my whole life and I had constipation.

[Judy Cho]

Okay, okay. Did you suffer from any gut issues?

[Host]

Yeah, but I think I was just so normalized to it. But I had constipation. I had like gut. Definitely gut pain. I don't even know. But yeah.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

I see bread and pasta all the time.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, there's a lot of. So I think at this point, a lot of people understand that gluten is something that people are very sensitive to. It's a protein in a lot of plant based foods and our bodies have a really hard time breaking that down. So it's not just that people with celiac disease cannot tolerate gluten. It's pretty much everyone has a very hard time. The human body has a very hard time breaking down gluten. And if we understand that fact. Yeah, when your gut feels off, your whole day can feel off. Activia probiotic yogurts and dailies are a quick, easy and tasty way to to up your gut health game every day. They're deliciously smooth and creamy and packed with billions of live and active probiotics. Your gut is where it all begins. So start with Activia. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle can help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort. All plants have some type of toxin in them. And it's certain humans or certain people are able to better digest and absorb that more than others. And some people. If you already have gut dysbiosis from your young, if you're already sick while you were young, then the ability to break down these nutrients are much more harder. And when you start eating a more plant based diet, which we do as Americans, we're Eating most foods with soy, corn, wheat. And so we are already following a plant based diet and it's not working for most people. Like I would have never gone carnivore had I not had a mental breakdown in a 72 hour hold against my will of they would not let me go because they thought I was a harm to myself. And now that I've been carnivore meat based for seven years, I don't struggle with any of those mood disorders. And now I know that it was absolutely what I was eating.

[Host]

That's crazy because there's people in psych wards right now that they could just make a simple diet change.

[Judy Cho]

And I think it could do a lot. I think the fact that if we have inflammation in our gut and we're eating the wrong food. So it's not only just the inflammation, it's also that if we're not absorbing the nutrients, our bodies are built with what we're eating. So if you think of a house, if you use raw materials that suck, the house is not going to be that great. The same thing if you're eating a bag of Twinkies versus if you're eating a bag of, I don't know, like a bag of chicharrones or pork rinds. The nutrients in pork rinds are much more bioavailable and better for you than Twinkies, for example.

[Host]

That is crazy. Where do you stand on all this raw milk talk? Because I like it, but I know it's controversial.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So when I got on the medications, I had to stop nursing my son, my oldest son. So I then started looking for what is the next best food for my child. And he was still six months. So after doing a lot of research, I learned that raw goat's milk actually had the most nutrition and the bioavailability and the similarities to breast milk. So I found a farmer that I trusted and I would go to the farm and drive there every single weekend to get my son raw milk. And he drank raw goat's milk for, for seven plus years and never had illness. And every morning both of my kids drink raw milk. Now that said, if you are pre diabetic or diabetic and you're eating carnivore for metabolic reasons or metabolic issues such as type 2 diabetes, heart disease, blood pressure issues, you probably don't want to drink a lot of raw milk just because there's a lot of sugar in it. And so that would be one, you do have to trust your farmer or where you're sourcing your Raw milk. Because it is true that if you get the raw. The a poor version of raw milk that's maybe has some bacteria, you can get E. Coli, for example, from raw milk. I just did a stool test on one of our clients, and either they're eating raw. Raw meat, or they're eating raw dairy, and it's causing them to have now gut issues.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

So that's. That would be my thing. I think raw milk is very nutrient dense, but you have to be very careful with your sourcing.

[Host]

Yeah. It's crazy that it's banned in almost every state.

[Judy Cho]

I know. It's even in Texas. You have to drive to the farmer to get the raw milk.

[Host]

Yeah. Same with everyone I know. Like, if they. If any store sells it online, they get banned right away.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. It's insane. It was a few stories of a few people getting sick with a few bad players that then made it, you know, not accepted anywhere else. But it's crazy because you'll see spinach. You know, there's an equal. I recall because of spinach or some other vegetable, and they never time and they never banned those foods.

[Host]

Yeah. All the time in Costco. So if a mother has diabetes and they breastfeed, what does that do for the baby?

[Judy Cho]

So there are studies that show that if a mom has diabetes, the likelihood of the child having more metabolic syndrome and earlier is higher. But from a. The baby's. Ideally, their pancreas and liver are working fine. So even if they're drinking the breast milk, which has some sugars in it, their metabolic health should be fine. And actually, if you test a baby, they are producing ketones a lot of times. So when they're young and they're sleeping through the night, say, 12 hours, they're not shaking or they're not free. Like, if you were to give a baby a bath, they're not shivering because they have a lot of good brown fat, and they're in ketosis a lot of the time, and that's why they're able to go for long periods without eating.

[Host]

Got it. Wow. I've seen some crazy stats on how many vaccines they're giving babies now. Yeah, it's nuts. It's 70.

[Judy Cho]

Okay. No. So when Covid came out, my brother wanted to get my parents the vaccine because they had type 2 diabetes and they had high cholesterol levels, and they're on a carnivore diet, and they've reversed everything. So they're 72, they're on no medications now. And I'm very grateful, but they're still in that age where, you know, during COVID they said it's a risk. And so I started doing all this research on vaccines and there's a lot of vaccines that I don't understand. My two sons were vaccinated for the first early part of their life. Would I do it again? I don't know. That's being wholly honest. I do wonder, though, I was born in the 80s, why do my children have way more vaccines than I did? And why, for example, are they getting the chickenpox vaccine when only maybe 100 people in all of the world die in a year? And there are risks where, for example, if you don't get chickenpox, then you have a higher chance of getting shingles and all of these other aftereffects of it. There's also this brain tumor or it might be a brain cancer, but if you've never had chickenpox, you're not protected from it now. So you have a higher chance of getting that. And I wrote it in this really long blog of all of the vaccines. I think the part that I struggle with vaccines in general and I have not done enough research on the baby and childhood ones. But the question is, I work with a lot of the very immune compromised people and they are the ones that can't get the vaccines because the additives, whatever is in it, the heavy metals, they will be the ones that get affected. And we have people that have gotten HPV vaccine when they're 13 and their life has completely changed in a negative way. We have people that have got the COVID vaccine, that some people have died and some people are really sick. And of course you can say, well, correlation isn't causation. So the question is, but if we're getting these vaccines to protect us from an illness because our own immune system can't help us. But if you're the. Then if you're the immunocompromised, but if you get the vaccine, you'll get sick, then who is this vaccine for? Yeah, so that is what I struggle with. With parents that have kids that are very immunocompromised. We will say, if you want to get vaccines, spread it out, get very little at a time, see how your kid reacts, never get it all at once and follow, I mean, maybe consider following the protocol they had when we were in the 80s and it was far less.

[Host]

It is interesting. I had Tucker Max on yesterday and he has four kids and none of them got a single vaccine. All home births. Okay, so to see that perspective and then see a doctor's perspective where they're giving them 70. Now, I know it's insane.

[Judy Cho]

And they're in the way that they give the vaccines. It's not. They have 70 different injections. They'll have one shot that has multiple in them and it's in those shots. In other countries they might have them separated and it's, I think it's more profitable to put it all in one. But there are. The dosage of heavy metals, of lead or mercury in these vaccines is a lot more than you would, that the, than the standard would allow. And it's because you're taking multiple. But if you, if you add them in one, you'll say that's not, it doesn't pass the dosage and it's pretty safe. But you're getting multiple shots. And so how do you know it's safe?

[Host]

Crazy. I just found out there's. I go to a holistic dentist now and I just found out there's heavy metals in the filling that they used on your cavities.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

And now that's in your tooth. The, the, the white ones, whatever the fake ones were.

[Judy Cho]

Okay. Are you talking about the amalgams?

[Host]

I think so, yeah.

[Judy Cho]

Okay, so those have mercury and you just have to be. Yeah. And we see. So the, the silver ones that people used to get in the dentist, they're, they're filled with mercury. And so every time you're eating anything hot or cold or chewing, you're releasing little doses of mercury and it's so close to your brain.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Judy Cho]

So that's the.

[Host]

And now there's some linkages with diseases and like some people get like those fillings and it's always on the side where they have it. It's crazy.

[Judy Cho]

No, I believe it.

[Host]

No, it's, it's nuts. But to have a holistic dentist fix your cavities, it's expensive. So I could see why they do that. I just paid eight grand to fill my cavities.

[Judy Cho]

Wow. Okay. Yeah. No, no, no. It is expensive. We, we also. See, I just learned this not too long ago, but when there's inflammation in the oral cavity area and you don't fix it, there's a higher correlation with heart disease.

[Host]

Damn.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So any inflammation in the body can cause heart disease to occur. I mean, it's just inflammation. Modern day disease is inflammation. Our food gives us low dose inflammation if you have an infection in your mouth. So when we get, when we do oral healthcare and we no longer can fill the nerves or feel the nerves. Parasites can live in those cavities and you don't feel it because the nerve endings are dead. So you're giving free space to all of this bacteria and parasites and all of these things. And so a, a holistic dentist can do a 3D cone beam scan and they can actually see the parasites. But for most doctors, they'll never be able to see that. And it includes root canals and all of these. And so if you have inflammation and it's not reducing with diet, with sleep, with exercise, you should try and check if you're. Something's going on with your oral.

[Host]

They offered me a cone scan, I denied it, but now I, I think.

[Judy Cho]

You should check especially if you've ever gotten your wisdom teeth out. Any place you have spaces or had spaces, that's where they can live rent free. And then the diet part affects that. So if you're eating a lot of sugar, your, the bacteria loves eating and affecting your teeth.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Judy Cho]

And so it will reduce your calcium levels, it will suck the bones, the calcium from your bones. So all of that plays into again your overall health.

[Host]

That's disgusting. I just did a parasite cleanse. Actually I feel a lot better.

[Judy Cho]

Did you do it during the full moon?

[Host]

No. Are you supposed to do. So it was 30 days, so.

[Judy Cho]

Okay, okay. So that's good. So that's good if you could tolerate it. We have clients that if they take the parasite cleanse protocol, sometimes they feel a lot more sick and it's oftentimes because they are having a hard time detoxing or their drainage or the areas that allow the body to detox is not detoxing well. But when it's the full moon, oftentimes serotonin is, there's an uptick. And parasites love the full moon. It's just that. So they will come out more. That's the theory at least. Look it up. It's full moon. Parasites love with the serotonin balance. And when I was in the eating disorder facility, there was a lady that worked in the mental health ward and she told me during the full moon the mental health ward gets fully packed with people because maybe they're having a parasite. Wow, it's so crazy.

[Host]

Yeah. Because parasites can probably dictate your mental health. A lot of other stuff.

[Judy Cho]

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean one of the co infections with Lyme, a tick bite borne infection, is a parasite and it causes all over systemic illness. So I absolutely think parasites can totally affect you.

[Host]

I just stopped eating sushi and I used to love sushi, but the parasite Risk is just too high. Right.

[Judy Cho]

So the grossest thing. And so I have slowly stopped eating sushi as well. And so obviously again it goes back to who can you trust sourcing. Etc. So we were at a, in Florida, we were at an all you can eat one of those higher. I know it's like the worst place to go, but it was one of those all you can eat sushi places. And in the fresh oyster you see a little parasite or worm come out. And after that I was like, never again. Well, like from any of those restaurants. And it was a higher end one.

[Host]

What?

[Judy Cho]

But literally. And I don't know how you can detect that, but it just so happened that the oyster on our table little.

[Host]

So you would have just ate it if you didn't see it.

[Judy Cho]

Right. Because you would have never seen it come out. And it was literally a little worm coming out of of the raw.

[Host]

Disgusting. I used to love all you can eat sushi buffets for 25 bucks. Yeah, that was my shit in college.

[Judy Cho]

There's a lot more now.

[Host]

But yeah, yeah, but nah, if you're gonna get sushi, you can't cheap out on it.

[Judy Cho]

No, agreed, agreed. Because there is, but there's a lot of other ways that you can get parasites infected. The air, the water. Yeah, Raw meat is another one. The other things are if you. So I know grounding is super popular, so I know this is kind of controversial, but the, one of the biggest ways to get parasites is if you walk on the floor barefoot.

[Host]

Really? Yeah, Damn. I do that.

[Judy Cho]

So it's a certain type of parasite though. But yeah, it is. I do that every day, so I'm cautious. So with my children I sort of do half grounding, half. Not because of the parasite risk.

[Host]

Well, they make the mats now. I don't know if that's as effective.

[Judy Cho]

I'm sure that one would be better though because I mean you're not walking on the ground then.

[Host]

Yeah, it does feel good to walk on some grass though, barefoot. But yeah, I heard fruits too are a big one. Parasites.

[Judy Cho]

Oh really? Okay. No, I haven't looked into, I, I don't know as much about the non carnivore foods just because no, I don't eat fruit. I, I, it's not. And it's not even because it's the higher sugar levels, which I do think is a factor, but I just, it's not something that I enjoy.

[Host]

Yeah. So you get no sugar cravings anymore?

[Judy Cho]

No, I would, I wouldn't say so.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

But I think it's because so the first, and I think everyone that tries this diet has to really understand their personalities. For me, there's a saying in our community, they call them bridge foods. So like, hey, while you're trying to convert to keto or carnivore, if you're struggling, then maybe you, maybe you have some sugar free gum or you have some diet soda and that will help bridge the gap while you're still craving sugars. I try to do that and that would cause me to end up having keto treats and then having real sugar and then I would end up binging and purging. So for me, I had to go super strict. There's other people that can have that bridge food and it works totally fine. But over the years I went, I was really, really strict for the first three years because my why was so big. I wanted to be a good mother and a good wife to my family. And so through therapy, through my faith in God, all of those things helped me to really just say no. And after a while, your microbiome shifts that you may not be producing the, the, the bugs that will crave the sugar. And I think I understand how strong that pull is because I used to struggle, I had an eating disorder, but I do not struggle with that anymore when I see junk food or it doesn't have the pull that it used to. And I think that's where I know that there is something to this diet beyond all the research I've done, beyond the thousands of carnivore clients and patients we worked with for my health. If you talk to my husband, I'm a totally different person, at least in mood calmness, cravings, all of those things. And my addictions, like they're, they have healed.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

Are healing.

[Host]

It's incredible. I will say every carnivore I've met, they look healthy.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

Like they're not fat. Like, you know what I mean? I've seen some vegans where they eat like beyond meat and like all this and it's like they're kind of fat.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, I think so. I was plant based, so I get it. I mean, I was vegetarian, I tried to do vegan, but I was a consultant. And when you're going to Nebraska and other places that don't have vegan friendly foods, it was really, really hard. So that's why I went vegetarian. But when you're not nutritionally supporting your body, you're going to crave other things. And so by the end of the night, after I'd work a full job, go to school full time, work out, be, you know, like the healthiest I could be. I would crave junk food. And so then I would go to the store and buy the healthiest vegetarian food I could that had a lot of seed oils and other things that I didn't think about. And then I would end up purging because I'm like, oh no, I overate. And I think that's what's going on with a lot of these plant based people. They really believe they're doing well. I don't think the carnivore community, vegan community are that different. In a sense we're both thinking, okay, so standard carers diet wellness does not work. So let's find a different path. And both of us are going in different avenues. And I know that there's a lot of conflict between us, but I really think at the heart of it, we are all trying to find what works and what will provide better health. I think the plant based community, not only was I part of it, not only did I support PETA, not only was I super, yes I was. I would watch all the movies, the earthling movie and all of the, you know, plant based movies. Forks over knives and I would cry and say, this is why we can't eat meat. But when your health goes away and you have nothing left and you get your son taken away from you, you're in a mental hospital, you have to question, am I being taught the right things? And for me then I started looking into the science and I realized the plant based diet, there's just a lack of nutrition. Your gut microbiome gets messed up, your inflammation is far worse and, and I think that's why they end up eating all of these junky foods. They eat a lot of nuts and nuts have a lot of anti nutrients or plant toxins that bind to your minerals. So then you're not getting the nutrient repletion and so then you're looking for more food.

[Host]

Yeah, those pita videos are good. Good.

[Judy Cho]

Oh, they're so good.

[Host]

Triggering your emotions.

[Judy Cho]

Totally.

[Host]

I cut out pig.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

Because the pig ones always got me.

[Judy Cho]

Long time ago or are you still?

[Host]

I, I pretty much don't eat pig right now. I mean, a lot of it's fed like really disgusting things.

[Judy Cho]

Agreed, agreed. Um, and there are certain shots that they give pork that can affect us. And I plan on writing talking about that in my second book. But pork, if you are deficient in B1, it's thiamine, it's the most nutrient dense of the vitamin B, one of everything, of all other foods. The next one is salmon, probably.

[Host]

Okay. I didn't have that deficiency. I had vitamin D pretty low, but which apparently is like, one of the worst ones to be low.

[Judy Cho]

And, yeah, it's interesting. So I know that a lot of the wellness space recommends going outside in the sun, getting the sun, and or supplementing with vitamin D, K2. But what we found is if you have inflammation or chronic illness that you are not fully aware of and you don't get to that root cause, it will suppress your vitamin D. Because it is a hormone. It doesn't get affected by inflammation. We had one person suffering from mold illness. No matter what she did, her vitamin D would never go up. As soon as she healed herself from mold illness and got out of a water damage building, went through the protocol, her vitamin D went up without anything.

[Host]

Dang, I need to find out if I had that. So they just found black mold in my sauna. A lifetime.

[Judy Cho]

Do you think that's lifetime in the gym?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

It was all over the sauna floor. Is that enough to get, like, sick from that just being in there a few times a week?

[Judy Cho]

It depends on your genetic type. So I would say yes and no. Everyone does bad with mold. And it doesn't matter if it's black mold. It's just if there's been water damage, there will be mold growing because all it takes is a little bit of paper, which is the cellulose or food from for the mold, and then a little bit of water, and that's what will proliferate mold. What does mold do? It's basically removing old life to produce new life. Right. So that's why it's. It's rotting a fruit. So then it will make the fruit go away or the food go away, and then new life can come. So when a home is damaged and we are slowly breathing in that mold, mold can grow in your body. Mycotoxins in your nasal cavity, in your intestine, small intestinal fungal overgrowth, Candida. All of these things can be very related to mold. And then there is a subset of people, it's about 24%, that have the genetic type, where they cannot basically remove the mold from their bodies.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

So then if you are part of that 24%, which that's why Michaela had me on, on that podcast, is she fits that 24%. So every time, essentially, you are exposed to mold, you're just adding it into your toxic bucket, and you're not able to remove it from your Body.

[Host]

Got it. I need to look into that because actually my blood. Blood results, my heavy metals were all kind of high.

[Judy Cho]

So what's interesting about the heavy metals is they will also bind to mold. They all sort of. All of these bad players work together in your system and make you sicker because they are trying to avoid your immune system and survive. And so heavy metals might be massed by mold or parasites. Can be. They can work together with the heavy metals too. It's. It's just.

[Host]

Yeah. I was wondering if it was from the mold or the water I was drinking because I found out the water I was drinking had heavy metals.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

Ofora.

[Judy Cho]

Okay.

[Host]

Have you heard of that brand?

[Judy Cho]

No, I haven't.

[Host]

Yeah. There's this guy named Cormac. He has a page on Instagram called Live Oasis and he rates every water brand. He sends it to a lab, tells you how many heavy metals and contaminants are in there. It's really useful.

[Judy Cho]

Okay. Yeah, we do. We do heavy metal testing in two different ways. We'll do blood work. So that's like, how much acute illness do you have in heavy metals? And then we'll do ones with hair mineral, or we'll do one through urine. There's different ways you could test because when you're. The heavy metals get into your cells, it's a lot harder to detox. So that's where I'm curious. Like, how did you get your heavy metal test?

[Host]

It was a blood test. So you're saying I should do a hair one?

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So you should probably do hair urine so you can just get a better lay of the land. Because the one in your blood. So your blood is just a path or a. Think of it like a freeway. And it is always trying to have a perfect balance of everything. So that's why your blood sugar is so important, because it has to be at this fine balance between 75, 70 milligrams per deciliter versus and at most maybe 120. Anything beyond that then causes issues. So your minerals that we test in our blood, so calcium, magnesium, they will always look pretty perfect. And the scariest example I heard is your calcium levels will always look pretty good, even if you're become. Even if your bones are giving all the calcium to balance the blood calcium levels. And it will be a very small window until you will show that you're osteopenic or you have osteoporosis.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

Because the blood needs to look very balanced. So that's why there's all this other Functional testing with your stool, your urine, your saliva and your cellular test. Because the blood will always try to look as clean as possible until it cannot do it anymore.

[Host]

Dang. Yeah. So I'll do a hair one and maybe a stool one. Make sure.

[Judy Cho]

Well, I can talk to you offline about other things you could test.

[Host]

Cool. Does the type of meat like matter? Because there's this whole debate with the grass fed, grain fed. Like have you seen big difference in.

[Judy Cho]

That from a nutritional perspective? Not really. I know that from a, you know, I always share information based on. So we have a clinical practice, right? So we get to see what the research shows and what ideals are what you see in the FDA research with the nutritional recommendations, what you know, all the papers show and then you get clinical practice. And this is, this side is the side that I think a lot of the influencers online are not doing because one on ones are super hard to do, Right. You're hearing people's cases over and over. But it is in those one on one cases that you see the rare cases, the things that don't work and then you start seeing trends before. If you read my first book, I absolutely said grass finished is the best, it's the most natural. I still believe all of those things. But in our clinical side of working with over 2000 carnivore patients and clients, one on one, a lot of them doing blood work, functional tests, there was no difference.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And there's no difference even in eating organ meats or not really, but we see people with vitamin A illnesses of overeating liver. So there's all these nuances that I know in theory, I know in papers, I know in research, it all sounds good. Of course, if you can afford, if you enjoy the taste, grass finish this best, because that is the way a cow is supposed to live. I fully agree with that. But if you are on food stamps or if you have a family and you can't afford the most highest grade meats, then if you go to Walmart and you get some ground beef with eggs and butter from there and you don't have intolerances to certain foods that can give you health, I've seen it over and over with our clients because yes, we work with a population that has money, but we also work with a population that is desperate for healing and so they're willing to do everything and so they scrounge for every penny to work with us. And when we see their bloodwork, you cannot deny that people are getting better with even the crappiest versions of food.

[Host]

That's crazy because I pay for prime. I pay for like Snake River Farms and it's like 10 times the price. Right.

[Judy Cho]

So let me tell you a crazy thing I saw. So Belcampo was a meat company that was advertised a long time or maybe like two years ago. Supposed to have the highest quality meats.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Judy Cho]

They were found. So I guess an angry employee filmed them showing that they were mixing the meats with grain. Just like Walmart type meats.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And they were selling it as this like very high end meat. You just never know. The other example was, I think it was the Kerrygold butter. You know, they're not truly just grass fed butter. Like that was another thing they're being sued for the Berkey water. So the Berkey filter.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Judy Cho]

They're in a class action lawsuit.

[Host]

Brita, right?

[Judy Cho]

Yes. No, not Brita. Berkey is a. It's those silver, silver containers that basically filter out. So they're supposed to filter out fluoride and all of these other things that a natural. Brita. Or a regular refrigerator. Brita. Filter or not. Brita. But a regular refrigerator water filter will not remove. And people tested it and they found that Berkey water does not remove everything. So all to say, you just never know for sure. In my book, I shared my first book, I shared how organic plants. I know we think they're the safest, but when I did the research on organic versus conventional, it's kind of crazy. But because they're conventional, because they're gmo and I'm not promoting GMO at all, but they are a lot more regulated than the organic community.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

And a lot. Half of our organic food is flown in from other countries. And when I did the research on the database for all of the certifications to have that organic class, 40% of them got it revoked after the first year. And that just shows you. You just don't know for sure. And that's where I think if you can eat meat, where at least even if meat, even if a cow, or let's. We'll talk about a cow. But even if a cow eats GMO corn and soy and not the greatest things, they have their own filtration system that if you're eating most of the muscle meat, it won't be there because that's most muscle meat does not store toxins stored in the liver. So that's where I do think you need to get the highest quality liver or kidneys or any organ systems that are known to detox because that's where they're going to store it. And you don't know when you're processing the meat, what part of the processing. So there might be stored toxins there. If a cow is sick and then you eat and they had like non alcoholic fatty liver disease in their liver and then you eat that liver because you're only getting a sliver of the organ meat, how do you know it was healthy?

[Host]

Crazy.

[Judy Cho]

So for our clientele, when they ask if they need to eat liver, I say no. Because every nutritional, dense nutrition, whether it's vitamins or minerals in liver you can get in any other animal based food. You just put liver without the toxins too, by the way, because vitamin A and copper are super high in organ meats.

[Host]

You just put liver king out of business.

[Judy Cho]

No.

[Host]

I bought those liver supplements, I think Ancestral blends.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, I think, I don't. I think it's ancestral supplement.

[Host]

Oh, ancestral supplements. Yeah. The black one.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. So what, what I'll say is like, I just think a lot of wellness. I came to this space because I was sick and I now I'm just giving back. Obviously we make a living off it too, but it's truly a, a passion. One of the things that they recommend with beef liver is, hey, there's so much folate and so you should eat this while you're pregnant. And my concern is there are studies done that show that when women are pregnant, too much vitamin A can cause issues with the fetus and folate, if you really want folate. I did the math in one of my infographics, but you have to take 32 capsules of the liver supplements to get your folate daily value.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Judy Cho]

So. And if you do that, you're at like thousands of excess in daily value of your vitamin A. And the part that I find so interesting is if people know that nutrition, why don't they just bring up chicken? Because chicken has double the amount of chicken liver, has doubled the amount of vitamin of folate and beef liver, so if you really want, you could have one ounce of chicken liver and it has a little bit less vitamin A. Still you can get poisoned with the vitamin A levels. But it's just interesting that chicken liver is actually more nutrient dense in a sense without as much of the risk. For example, has less copper versus beef liver. But beef liver is what's touted because it's sold and it's in capsules and it's just great marketing. Whereas if you eat chicken, the high levels of copper and beef liver, chicken has far Less, it will deplete your zinc. You need zinc to create hydrochloric acid, the stomach acid, to break down foods and then absorb your foods. It depletes your zinc and then it depletes vitamin C and it can deplete your iron. Wow. And we just talked about iron levels too, being important when I was anemic when I was pregnant. So it's just. We don't. A lot of people don't have the time to look into this. As a nutritionist, I look into this stuff and I see a lot of the false advertising. How do you go against that?

[Host]

That is crazy.

[Judy Cho]

How do you share that when if I do, I'm just a hater?

[Host]

No, you can't argue with data, though, too. So I think that's valuable. Never seen someone sell chicken liver because.

[Judy Cho]

So most chicken, you have to cook. Right. So, like, how do you put chicken liver? In capsules.

[Host]

I see.

[Judy Cho]

I think that's the reason. Whereas all the beef livers, they're all dehydrated and then they're sold. So they're not even cooked.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. There's a word for it. Yeah, It's. It tastes like shit, too. I'm going to probably stop, but that's interesting. I can't believe that because I spent so much money on my meat and it's the same results.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. I mean, what you can do. So what I always recommend is do your own n equals 1. You could do your blood work. Get, like, cell testing of all your nutrient panels. There's ones that you can take your blood and it'll do your nutrient status for three months of your. Three months of your cell health. You could do it with just your grass finish, and then you can convert. Don't change much other than eating just grain. Finished. And then. See, is there a difference? And if there's not, then you're probably wasting your money.

[Host]

Crazy. Well, you've done thousands. And you said there's no major difference.

[Judy Cho]

There is nothing.

[Host]

So with Paul Saladino, did he recently get off the carnivore diet.

[Judy Cho]

So I don't fall? No, I think he stopped it a while ago. I worked with Paul on his first book. So I was writing Carnivore Cure, which is my book, and then he approached me to do the graphics for his book. So I did the research and the graphics for the graphics and the research for the graphics for his book. And I worked with him in close proximity for about a year. And he's very charismatic. He's very bright. I think he has a really good photogenic memory. But he stopped Carnivore because he has said several reasons of why it didn't work for him. And I know that there are people that also say Carnivore doesn't work. So just the strict meat diet. But if I add fruits, if I add honey, if I add berries, then it works. But a lot of people, I mean, almost 50% of America is obese. Most people have metabolic syndrome. So most people are not like Paul Saladino and can surf for hours a day and look super healthy and move away to a different country and live by the sun. Right. Because I believe he moved there because he was having health issues.

[Host]

Yep.

[Judy Cho]

And, and if that's the case when he's. Yes, he stopped the Carnivore diet and I think he said he couldn't balance those electrolytes. His testosterone got lower. And there might be other reasons. I just don't think it's the Carnivore diet. I look into so much blood work. I'm going to release a video that talks about his blood work and, and why I think he's miss analyzing a lot of this stuff. Really?

[Host]

Yes, I think so he publicized his blood work.

[Judy Cho]

I. So in 2022, I saw a blood work because we always get our clients that then worry like Paul Saladino came out saying ketogenic diets are dangerous, carnivore diets are dangerous. Well, my marker looks close to his, so therefore am I suffering like he is. And so that's why then we have to understand, well, what did he put out in 2022 I saw a, a video where he shared that his testosterone had gone low and it's because of his sex hormone binding globulin. But he quickly moved over his DHEA levels and that is a hormone that's appropriate precursor to creating testosterone. He never brings that up. But all to say, I think he, you know, like when we believe something, we believe it's 100% correct and it is only through other people. It's like when Mike Tyson says, you everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. When I work with one on one people, they punch me in the face every day.

[Host]

Right.

[Judy Cho]

So they tell me when I'm wrong with my beliefs. And that's when you start seeing more holistically. Okay, other than my n equals 1. And we have people that have blood work similarly to theirs, but they're suffering from mold illness or they're suffering from Lyme, or they're suffering from some autoimmune. And so it was never that we needed to change the diet, but that something else is fundamentally root cause at an issue. And I wish that he would have looked into more things than just say the carnivore diet or keto is dangerous for people. And here's what happened to me. So therefore that's correct for everyone. Because I don't even think he has a clinical practice. Whereas, yes, I'm not a doctor, but I've worked with 2,000 people doing their blood work.

[Host]

Yeah. It's hard to make broad claims in health.

[Judy Cho]

No, totally.

[Host]

There's so many factors.

[Judy Cho]

Right, exactly.

[Host]

Yeah. So to say one diet doesn't work, he could have had a mold exposure. He could have had anything. Right. Parasite exposure. And it's hard to prove that on a blood test.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah. And so my plan is, or what I plan to share is just some of the markers that were imbalanced. And so, for example, he brings up electrolytes imbalanced. And he said he needs glucose to retain the water in his system, which will. That will then allow him to retain the electrolytes. And he's not having issues. I saw on his blood work recently that his osmolality is low. That's a marker that will help to retain your water. And that happens for certain root cause issues and it's not a diet issue. So it's still low on his high fruit diet. So why is that still low? He just didn't see it. We see so much blood work, so it's very easy for us to see things that are in balance. When you look at standard care's blood work, just because there's no H or L next to it or a high or low doesn't mean that it's not imbalanced. There's a functional optimal range. And you will never see that looking at blood work.

[Host]

Wow.

[Judy Cho]

But if you work with enough people, you can see, oh, that marker is actually out of range. Even though it doesn't say it on the standard care. The standard cares ranges are based on the average person. So if we get all of America, if all of America, half the people are obese, the range becomes more skewed towards unhealthy.

[Host]

Right.

[Judy Cho]

So when he's showing blood work based on standard ranges, maybe some of the markers are actually unhealthy and he doesn't see it because he's not working with people one on one.

[Host]

Yeah. They should fix that range system because when I get my blood results, I think I'm really healthy. But you're compared to America.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, I'LL show you. I'll show you a couple, I'll send it to you. I'll show you a couple ranges of what's optimal ranges.

[Host]

Okay, cool. Yeah, I'd rather compare myself to some healthy group of people than. No, the average American. You know what I mean?

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, totally. I mean, even in the carnivore space for cholesterol, for example, we say triglycerides, which is the floating fat in your blood, should be under 100 milligrams. I think it's milligrams per deciliter. In the standard care range, it's 150. So they allow a lot more and your blood sugar can convert to triglycerides. We think triglycerides have a higher risk of cardiovascular disease. Inflammation in the carnivore space. You'll see that number under 100 very often. And when it's over 100, we know either you're eating non carnivore foods, your blood sugar is high, or something's imbalanced and it's causing your triglycerides to go up. But in the, again, the standard optimal range, it's 150is permissible.

[Host]

Yeah. Do you eat eggs or is that considered not.

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, I think eggs. So it depends on the person against. A lot of people have intolerances to eggs. If you are intolerant, maybe just try the egg yolks. Egg yolks have the most nutrition. Nutrition, it's not in the egg whites. Egg whites has a little bit of magnesium, but it's mostly protein. Egg yolks is where all the nutrient density, lots of minerals. So if you can tolerate it, I think it's great to eat. If you don't cook the egg yolk, you will get more of the bioavailable nutrition. But you need to cook the egg white. So that's where it gets a little bit tricky with the egg. Because the egg white has certain enzymes. Again, I think it's to protect the egg. But if you cook it, it will break down those enzymes that can be harmful to our sensitivities.

[Host]

Interesting. I always thought the yellow part was the part you throw out.

[Judy Cho]

No, because we, we grew up in this high fat or like low fat era and egg yolks have a lot of fat. But there's the most nutrition is in the egg yolks. There's barely any nutrition in egg whites. It's just protein.

[Host]

Okay. Yeah, there was that whole cholesterol scare too.

[Judy Cho]

So that in 2020, or maybe it was a little bit earlier, the USDA used to have a cap on eggs, and that's why. So it was. You cannot have over a certain amount of cholesterol per day or otherwise. There's a risk of heart disease. And I think the amount worked out to be about two eggs a day.

[Host]

That's it.

[Judy Cho]

Yes. And they removed it, though silently. Never came into mainstream. So there is. There was no paper that showed upper levels of dietary cholesterol can cause or risk heart disease, so they silently removed it. So now there's no upper threshold.

[Host]

Crazy. They changed the food pyramid, too.

[Judy Cho]

Totally.

[Host]

I remember learning about that. Judy, it's been fun. Where can people find you and potentially get some health advice from you?

[Judy Cho]

Yeah, anywhere. On nutrition with Judy. My book is Carnivor Cure. I have also have a beginner's carnivore book that came out. But anything nutrition with you.

[Host]

Cool. We'll link it below. Thanks for coming on.

[Judy Cho]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Host]

Yeah. Thanks for watching, guys. Hopefully you learned something about nutrition today. See you guys tomorrow.