What an Ego Death Really Feels Like... | Anna Lindfors | DSH #2037

Summary

Podcast Summary

Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly

Episode: What an Ego Death Really Feels Like... | Anna Lindfors | DSH #2037
Date: June 27, 2026
Guest: Anna Lindfors (Psychologist, Sexologist, "Viking Fairy")

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Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Sean Kelly sits down with psychologist and sexologist Anna Lindfors to dissect one of today’s most urgent yet overlooked crises: modern loneliness, the state of intimacy, and the impacts of technology on relationships. The conversation pulls no punches as Anna shares raw insights on porn culture, AI-driven intimacy, faulty education, and the uncomfortable path to emotional growth—including her harrowing, humbling experiences of ego death. Both speakers offer practical advice on moving from avoidance and self-escape to authentic connection, personal healing, and a more soulful approach to life and love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Loneliness Epidemic and Gender Disconnect

• Statistics on Sex and Loneliness

  • One in three men under 25 did not have sex in the last year ([00:00], [01:03]).
  • One in four men think they are unlovable ([01:43]).
  • 80% of people are tired of dating apps, with both men and women reporting high dissatisfaction ([01:03]–[01:44]).
  • Women are "tired of dating and disappointed in men" ([01:44]).

• Roots of Male Insecurity

  • Men are bombarded by messaging that “being masculine is bad,” and feel pressure to earn worth through performance and consumption ([02:01]).
  • Exposure to the manosphere and “incel” subcultures intensifies these issues, promoting avoidance and escapism ([02:01]).

Porn, Technology, and the Devaluation of Intimacy

• Societal Effects of Porn

  • Porn sites receive more web traffic than all social media combined ([02:53]).
  • Anna advocates for an 18+ restriction on porn due to its psychological effects, including desensitization and unrealistic expectations ([03:06]).
  • Examples: Teenagers learning “skills” from porn, choking epidemics in schools ([03:58]).

• Impact on Sexual Identity

  • Unrealistic expectations harm both men (performance anxiety) and women (pressure to act like porn stars) ([04:07]).
  • "Sex is everywhere. Sex is cheap," Anna observes, emphasizing the loss of sacredness in modern intimacy ([05:54]).

The Failure of Sex Education

• Outdated and Fear-Based Teaching
  • Both share negative memories of sex ed—banana demonstrations, STD scare tactics, videos of childbirth ([05:13]–[05:31]).
  • Anna proposes a holistic curriculum: "Imagine if we had schools where we teach teenagers how to have difficult conversations, how to talk about your emotions, how to understand what's happening in your body..." ([01:12], [05:31], [05:54]).

False Intimacy & Attachment Issues

• Dating App Dynamics

  • Anna highlights the illusion of infinite options, especially for women ("10 to 1 outnumbered” on dating apps, [10:29]).
  • This fosters avoidant behavior: "Why work through an issue when you can just find someone new?" ([10:36]).

• Escapism Beyond Dating: Biohacking & Psychedelics

  • "Biohacking can be another way to escape if you don’t integrate…so much easier to take 75 supplements a day than to sit with yourself" ([14:21]).
  • Anna’s approach: “I don't live to biohack. I biohack to live” ([16:12]).

Technology, AI, and the Future of Connection

• Intimacy with AI
  • Anna cites studies showing “70% of teenagers had some kind of intimate relationship with AI.” ([00:28], [17:12])
  • She warns: “We can’t take criticism, can’t meet uncomfortable conversations…” if AI partners are programmed only to agree ([17:14]).
  • Fears: Rise of sex robots, artificial wombs—“nothing replaces deep human connection” ([19:03], [19:42]).

The Necessity and Challenges of Real Human Connection

• Social Awkwardness and Emotional Safety

  • The nervous system seeks false relaxation via sex or screens; real comfort comes from "taking sex off the table" to build true emotional connection ([06:46], [07:26]).
  • Practical tip: Practice eye gazing with a partner to increase intimacy and presence ([22:22], [22:34]).
  • Anna: "You feel so seen, so loved...once you get past the awkwardness" ([23:00]).

• Stress, Devices, and Sex Drive

  • High stress (measured by Sean’s Oura ring) correlates to lower libido ([23:54]).
  • “You're not horny if you're stressed out…your body doesn’t want to reproduce because you're in survival mode” ([23:42], [23:58]).

Building Lasting Growth (Ego Death & Self-Work)

• Ego Death: What It Really Feels Like

  • Not a “fun little thing”; real ego death feels like dying every day, "you want to die to escape the pain that you're going through" ([33:29]).
  • "In a way, you do die. Your old self dies to make room for growth" ([33:29]).
  • True healing: "Sitting with it, surrendering…not trying to perform it" ([33:29], [36:15]).

• Integrating Growth Practices

  • Growth comes from sitting with oneself, not in “adding more pills, more apps, more fads” ([36:15]).
  • Anna suggests movement meditation (like walking, yoga) for those struggling with traditional meditation ([37:10]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Men’s Insecurity

  "Men are being told that men are bad, being masculine is bad...you receive this manosphere kind of incel movement of, like, you're unworthy. You need to invest into my crypto to be a cool bro and go to the gym..."
  – Anna ([02:01])

• The State of Sex Ed

  "I remember my class. They brought the banana out…then, like, all these pictures of STDs. They also showed a birth process for some reason."
  – Sean ([05:15])

  "Imagine if we had sex at…in schools where we teach teenagers how to have difficult conversations, how to talk about your emotions, how to understand what's happening in your body..."
  – Anna ([01:12], [05:31])

• On Porn’s Impact

  "Porn sites...receive the most traffic—more than all social medias combined." – Anna ([02:53])

  "Men get desensitized…women feel like we need to perform as porn stars and do all these crazy stuff to be the cool girl."
  – Anna ([04:07])

• AI and Intimacy

  “70% of teenagers had some kind of intimate relationship with AI…you build your identity, your social skills, and then your intimate companion is something that’s programmed to agree with everything you say.”
  – Anna ([17:12])

• Dealing with Stress and Intimacy

  "You’re not horny if you’re stressed out…your body doesn’t want to reproduce because you’re in survival mode.” – Anna ([23:42], [23:58])

• Eye Contact Exercise

  “Just put your phones away and do eye gazing for one minute…once you get past the awkwardness...you just feel so loved and connected.”
  – Anna ([22:22], [23:00])

• On Growth and Ego Death

  “When you go through an actual ego death, you feel like you're dying every single day...In a way, you do die. Your old self dies to make room for growth.”
  – Anna ([33:29])

• Anna’s Closing Message

  “It’s hard out there, but there’s so much hope. There's so many people who want to grow, who want to love, want to learn how to love themselves and how to love you...Give the love that you want to receive. Give that to the world and it will love you."
  – Anna ([38:15])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Stats on Sex & Loneliness: [00:00]–[01:44]
• Porn & Its Impact: [02:53]–[04:07], [03:06] on restricting age
• Sex Education Critique: [05:13]–[05:31]
• Attachment Styles & Fake Intimacy: [08:11], [10:00]
• Dating Apps Discussion: [10:29]–[11:42]
• Biohacking as Escape: [14:21], [16:12]
• AI in Relationships: [17:00]–[18:23]
• Loneliness & Social Media: [19:47]–[20:16]
• Practical Connection Exercises (Eye Gazing): [22:22]–[23:26]
• Stress/Sex Link: [23:53]–[24:13]
• Ego Death and Real Growth: [33:29]–[36:15]
• Movement Meditation & Practical Advice: [37:10]–[37:49]
• Final Message of Hope: [38:15]

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Summary Takeaway

Anna Lindfors and Sean Kelly deliver an unflinching assessment of our hyper-digital moment: sexlessness, porn overuse, and the intoxicating lure of technological “connection” can’t replace vulnerable, messy, uncomfortable—but real—human closeness. Growth, whether through ego death, honest conversation, or practices as simple as eye contact, requires sitting with our discomfort instead of escaping it. The future, Anna urges, is about reclaiming hope, loving bravely, and building a culture centered on true connection—both with others and within ourselves.

Transcript

[Anna]

One in three men under 25 didn't have sex in the last year. Imagine if we had sex in schools where we teach teenagers how to have difficult conversations, how to talk about your emotions, how to understand what's happening in your body when there's, like, hormones going all over the place and you just want to f everything that moves. And it's like, wait a minute, how do I navigate this? What do I do? And, like, how to do that? Respectfully, 70% of teenagers had some kind of intimate relationship with AI.

[Host]

You think AI is going to make dating worse?

[Anna]

Foreign.

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[Host]

as the Viking fairy.

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[Host]

Let's go. That's awesome, man.

[Anna]

Thanks for having me. I'm super excited.

[Host]

Absolutely. She's speaking at this event. She's a psychologist and a sexologist. So thanks for coming on.

[Anna]

Thanks for having me.

[Host]

Absolutely. I want the main focus I. I think today would be the disconnect between men and women. Which you've been looking into, right?

[Anna]

Yeah, very much. I mean, if you. If you look at what's happening in society right now, we have massive loneliness. Massive loneliness epidemic. You look at dating, it's like 80 of people on dating apps are tired of dating. We have one in four men. Actually. They. I think they did a new studied. One in three men under 25 didn't have sex in the last. Virgins, not necessarily virgins, but just didn't have sex in the last year with a partner.

[Host]

So that's an incel.

[Anna]

You know, you could. You could look at it like that, but it's just the data that they just didn't have sex with a partner.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And. And then it's like. And then one in four men think that they're unlovable.

[Host]

Wow.

[Anna]

Women are tired of dating. Women are disappointed in men. So it's just like, it's. It's sad to see what's. What's happening, and everybody's lonely, and all we want is connection. Really.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

One in four men think they're unlovable.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

Holy crap. That's like a lot of identity issues or what's. What do you think's going on with that?

[Anna]

I think it's a lot of. What. If you look at it broader, what's happening in society, it's. Men are being told that men are bad, being masculine is bad. And then all the information that you receive is this manosphere kind of incel movement of, like, you're unworthy. You need to invest into my crypto to be a cool bro and like go to the gym. It's like no wonder, no wonder. Men learn that you need to earn your worth, you need to perform, but nobody tells you how to do that. And then you're, you're giving porn these cheap dopamine, like ways to escape. You're indoors all the time, you're in front of a screen. It's like no wonder. Yeah, it's, it's more a miracle that, you know, three out of four men think they're lovable.

[Host]

Wow. Yeah, a lot of men, if you

[Anna]

look at the, you know, lifestyle of people.

[Host]

Yeah, a lot of men are addicted to porn or watching it pretty frequently these days.

[Anna]

No, it's insane. It's like they're the most, they're the websites that receive the most traffic. More than made up, more than all social medias combined. It's porn sites.

[Host]

Do you think they should be limited to a certain age?

[Anna]

Oh, 100, 100. They, they should be limited. I think we should look at porn society societally of the way it's impacting us because what it's doing, it's desensitizing men and it's, it's demotivating mental health from actually going outside, developing themselves and dating women because you feel lonely, you, you kind, you want to lower your cortisol, you're stressed out. It's just so much easier to just like start some porn, you know, jerk off and that's, that's you done and you still feel empty afterwards. So we definitely should limit porn to, you know, 18 plus minimum. Because right now we have, we have situations where there are teenagers having threesomes without no skills to, to do that because they learn that from por. There was a choking epidemic happening in some schools in Finland, which is insane.

[Host]

Finland.

[Anna]

Like it's. Yeah. And teens don't have the skills. If you watch porn, it twists your image of what sex is and what sex can be like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So men get desensitized and you think that for you to be a good lover, women are going to moan in a specific way. And like sex is this, you know, this like heavy, strong, pounding. And then when women don't function like that, you feel disappointed, you feel let down. And then on the other side, women feel like we need to, we need to perform as porn stars and we need to moan and it's like high pitched and like do all these crazy stuff to be the cool girl, to be desirable. It just, honestly, it's a mess and we should limit it and we should encourage People. To move away from porn into actually dating people.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Into actual connection and, like, deal with the uncomfortableness of getting to know somebody new.

[Host]

Yeah. I was just gonna ask you. Where do you think people should learn sex, how to have sex, if. If it's not porn for me.

[Anna]

No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I think there are incredible sex educators out there. I think more than that, we should change sex education in schools.

[Host]

It's so bad.

[Anna]

We, like.

[Host]

I remember my class.

[Anna]

What did they teach you?

[Host]

They brought the banana out.

[Anna]

I know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And then, like, all these pictures of STDs.

[Host]

They showed STDs. They also showed a birth process for some reason.

[Anna]

Nice.

[Host]

They showed the baby come out of the vagina. I'm, like, scarred from that.

[Anna]

Exactly. Like, you just scared teenagers. Yeah, but it's like, imagine if we had sex at. In schools where we teach teenagers how to have difficult conversations, how to talk about your emotions, how to understand what's happening in your body when there's, like, hormones going all over the place and, you know, you just want to. Everything that moves, and it's like, wait a minute. How do I. How do I navigate this?

[Host]

What.

[Anna]

What do I do? And, like, how to do that respectfully. But I think also beyond that, we should. Okay. And this is a bit of a deep topic, but I feel like we. We would benefit so much if we added more sacredness to sex. Because from my experience and from my profession, sex is the most healing and most divine experience that we can have. And it's the most primal when we're in our bodies and when we, you know, we're. We're free and we're connected. But right now, what's happening is sex is everywhere. Sex is cheap. Men are trying to, you know, have sex on the first date instead of getting to know a woman, getting to know her, building that emotional connection. So I feel like also, we should take a step back, look at sex as a whole, and just connect us as humans.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because what sex does is it's this cheap replacement for connection. And in the beginning, when you meet somebody and you go on a date and you're nervous, and, like, your nervous system, you just feel like, you know, all these, like, tingling feelings, and it's uncomfortable. And when you have sex with someone, it creates this false intimacy of, like, oh, not like, my nervous system can relax. We know each other. And then you bond through the hormones. But then you realize, like, wait a minute. I don't actually know this person. We don't have Anything in common? We're just. We're just kind of. We're playing this role of intimacy. But it's like, what if you. What if you take sex off the table for a little bit?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Just get to know them and, like, feel that uncomfortableness of being with someone and then have sex, like, as the emotion builds.

[Host]

Right.

[Anna]

It's a completely different experience.

[Host]

That's how it used to be, Right, Exactly.

[Anna]

Yeah, I know.

[Host]

Now it's like first, second, third, fourth date, pretty common now here.

[Anna]

I don't know. And I hear myself like, wait a minute, I sound pretty conservative. But it's. I believe in freedom of choice. Like, everybody can do what they want. Like, if you want to have sex with someone, do it. If you want to have something casual, just. Just do it. But just. I just want to offer an alternative view.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, sex is sacred.

[Host]

I think that's also where your psychologist hat kicks in. When you see people having a lot of sex, what is that doing to the brain? Right. How is that effect?

[Anna]

Yeah, you're just creating false intimacy. Hormones, dopamine, oxytocin. And then you lead to these attachment issues. You know, there's a lot of people with avoidant and anxious attachment. I'm not sure if of avoidant are familiar. Yeah, nice. I'm. Well, I'm. I'm secure, but I also lean to avoidant.

[Host]

Oh, interesting. So you're secure. Avoidant.

[Anna]

Yeah, secure. But sometimes because it's like, also they're. They're dynamic. Like, let's say you're avoidant, but you meet somebody who's super avoidant, even more avoidant than you, you're going to become anxious.

[Host]

Okay.

[Anna]

Yeah, like, that's what I mean. So it's like somebody who's super anxious, but they're with somebody who's super, super, super secure. They're not as anxious. It's like, it's all. It's. We're all in. In dynamic with each other.

[Host]

Right?

[Anna]

So it's like, hey, guys, even though

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[Anna]

Sorry, what was the question? I'm like, I got so deep in that avoidance.

[Host]

What did I ask before that you said like avoided.

[Anna]

I got so your psychologist.

[Host]

When you start seeing people having sex, what is that doing to their brain? You know what I mean?

[Anna]

Yes. You create the false intimacy and then the attachment styles kick in.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And usually somebody's more avoided and somebody's more anxious and then you start playing out these roles from that you learned in your childhood. And then it can lead to this like toxic dynamic of like having sex, making out, and then breaking up and coming back together and like not actually dealing with. Dealing with your stuff.

[Host]

Right.

[Anna]

But just. Or what's happening with the dating apps is you have and this illusion of infinite options just especially for. For women. It's like, it's insane.

[Host]

10 to 1 outnumbered.

[Anna]

Yeah. 10 to 1. It's. But the numbers are overwhelming.

[Host]

Yeah, it's.

[Anna]

It's literally insane. So it's like, why would I work through this issue with this person that I just met when I can just put the blame on them and just go, go do the same thing over again with another person and put the blame on them and then do it again and do it again and do it again.

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[Host]

It's so easy to do that. Right. They could go on a date. They could go on three dates a day if they wanted to. Easily.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Cuz they're outnumbered.

[Host]

The guys outnumber the woman 10 to 1. I've had girls show me their Tinder and show me their Instagram. I can't stop scrolling. It just goes on and on and on. It's crazy.

[Anna]

Yeah. I had like one few years back when I had dating apps, I think in and I was flying over somewhere and then you could see how many likes you got sharing this. It was over like 12 000.

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[Anna]

Sorry. Oh my God. No, like, yeah, it was crazy.

[Host]

That's nuts. And that was on Tinder or which

[Anna]

app I'm not gonna share.

[Host]

Okay.

[Anna]

Anyway.

[Host]

But like that is crazy though.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you had 12, 000 different options you could choose from.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

Crazy. So you're not a fan of the apps though?

[Anna]

No. No.

[Host]

You like old school connection? Me not in person.

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[Anna]

I do. I think the thing with apps is like we're trying to use technology to fix a human issue. And if you. What we see is okay, humans like to avoid their pain, like to avoid, avoid their stuff and they like to escape and then they want to meet people. So then you give people the option to go on these apps and like always meet new people. So you can't fix that problem with creating new apps or now they're developing apps where it's like AIs are talking to each other and then arranging dates. You fix the problem by fixing the people and getting people to work on themselves and like for, for both. Like let's say for you and I, we're a little bit avoidant.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And we notice we get triggered instead of, you know, finding somebody new today. It's like, wait a minute, let me, let me sit with myself. Let me take accountability for, for my stuff, for my behavior and work on this with this person or, or on my own. And like that's what needs to happen. So we need more education and changing culture rather than new dating apps or. You get my point.

[Host]

Yeah, no, that's super well said. No one's taking accountability, basically.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Host]

You know, they're just moving on to the next quicker.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it's not just dating, it's jobs. It's everything. People are just moving on from everything.

[Anna]

Exactly. I mean, even. Even biohacking. We're here at this biohacking conference, and what I noticed in the community, I've spoken at those European events more, and part of that community is people love to escape. And biohacking can be another way to escape as well if you don't integrate because it's like, it's so much easier to take 75 supplements a day, then like, sit with yourself and cry out your pain and be vulnerable with your partner and say like, hey, this is hurting me. I'm scared. I really love you, but I don't know how to navigate this.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. People want a pill to fix everything. A peptide or surgery or. Yeah. They don't want to actually, like, get down to the root cause of what's causing their health issues.

[Anna]

Yeah, but. But that's the real biohacking. That's the real growth.

[Host]

Yeah. How does what you do tie into biohacking?

[Anna]

But biohacking is, is a way of life for me. It really, I mean, I was diagnosed with endometriosis when I was 20. I don't know if you know it.

[Host]

I do.

[Anna]

It's a condition where the, the lining of your uterus starts growing outside it. And then I had another condition. It basically got nerve damage. So I was in constant pain for. For months. I couldn't even sleep. I couldn't even tie my hair, which is.

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[Anna]

Yeah. It was crazy. So for me, biohacking was, it was a way to take ownership of my health and look outside the box. And I got my endo into remission, you know, got myself pain free, will recover. So for me, biohacking is, it's. It's in everything. But I don't live to buy a hack, which a lot of biohackers do. I buy a hack to live. So it's like what I call myself. It's life maximizing, biohacking, growth, psychology, like everything combined. And it's just me living to the fullest.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

As a human.

[Host]

Yeah. Because you've had some major health incidents, so you needed biohacking to get out of those.

[Anna]

Oh, 100.

[Host]

Whereas other people are just taking 100 pills a day.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

And they're calling that biohacking.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm just gonna. You do your Thing what works for you. But what I see is just a lot of escaping as well.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

In this community.

[Host]

And there's always a new fad, a new trend.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

I remember methylene blue was hot.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

Now it's peptides. Peptides are everywhere.

[Anna]

100.

[Host]

There's like probably seven exhibitors here that are selling it.

[Anna]

100. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. And then there'll be a new one in a couple months.

[Anna]

It's always like that with AI, with everything. Like, we want these new shiny things because it distracts us from our pain.

[Host]

Yeah. You think AI is going to make dating worse?

[Anna]

They're gonna make dating. I mean, I think there was a study that came out or some kind of survey where they said that 70% of teenagers had some kind of intimate relationship with AI.

[Host]

What? Wow.

[Anna]

Yeah. And so if you, if you think about that and those very formative years where you, you build your identity, you build your social environment and your social skills and then your intimate companion. I'm not saying the only one, but a very close intimate companion is something that's programmed to agree with everything you say and kind of enforce and reinforce like what you're, what you're thinking. So then we grow into adults or we grow as humans into people that we can't, we can't take criticism. We can't meet these uncomfortable conversations because it's like, you know, you're wrong. That's a red flag. That's this, that's that. So we're, we're just going to be more disconnected from each other than, than ever before.

[Host]

I agree. Especially when you said earlier, 25 of guys haven't had sex in the past year. Those guys are going to go to AI girl. They're going to go to sex robots, AI girlfriends.

[Anna]

And it's so much easier because you don't have to deal with her hormones, you don't have to deal with her emotions.

[Host]

You don't have to spend money. It'll be way easier, way more affordable.

[Anna]

Yeah. You're just gonna talk to somebody who adores and agrees everything with what you say.

[Host]

Well, more than talk, you're gonna have sex with them in a few years. Know what I mean?

[Anna]

Yeah. Robots.

[Host]

Yeah. That's the future. Crazy, right? Our kids, our kids are going to be dealing with some interesting situations.

[Anna]

That's like. Because I feel like the world is going into. Do two directions. People who use AI to kind of automate workflow and other things. And then you have more time for growth and for connection and like for health and for these things. And then there's the other side that's going deeper into disconnection and escaping and using AI to do that. I want to be. I want to be on this side. I want to be on the side of light and hope and like, hey, hey, people, let's. Let's wake up.

[Host]

We still need that human connection.

[Anna]

Like, if you think about having sex with a robot.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Versus, like, truly, like, truly making love to someone, like, hand on heart, like, staring into their soul. There's no. There's no robot that can do that yet. No, you don't.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I disagree.

[Anna]

Never. Like, I. Okay. I hope that we never enter a future where robots can replace, like, fully replace human connection.

[Host]

Yeah. It'd be scary if they. If that got to a reality, I think.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah. Let's not.

[Host]

Artificial wombs and you know what I mean?

[Anna]

Wow. Yeah.

[Host]

It could happen, but we'll see how it plays out.

[Anna]

It could happen, but I just. Nothing, like, nothing replaces deep human connection.

[Host]

I agree. I know you talk about loneliness a lot. I've spent many years lonely, like, growing up. I grew up an only child, and that was always a big deal. But now with this generation, it's probably the loneliest.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

Generation of all time. You know what I mean? With social media.

[Anna]

Social media, like, covet happened. People were in schools, like, shut down. You just. You get disconnected and you. You lose those skills.

[Host]

Yeah. So I only see that getting worse with. With AI and with technology as well.

[Anna]

Yeah. And also what's happening with. With teenagers and Gen Z, it's. They spend time together in the same room on their phones, sending memes to each other, and it's like, well, good that you're, like, hanging out. But like, hey, like, guys, like, let's.

[Host]

I don't know if that counts as hanging out.

[Anna]

I know. Like. Well, at least they're in the same room together instead of just behind screens. But like, what if we, like, what if we just, like, tried to put the phones away and just like, just connect and just talk about. Because it's uncomfortable. That's why we avoid this.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's awkward.

[Anna]

It's really. It's so freaking awkward.

[Host]

I went on a date with my wife like, a couple weeks ago, and we were like, we're not using phones. It was so awkward.

[Anna]

Really?

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, we were just so used to being on our phones now, we

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

forgot how to talk.

[Anna]

Yeah.

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[Anna]

feel in your body when you could like literally try, like try to find yourself?

[Host]

Yeah, I was like reaching for my phone naturally. I was like twitching a little bit.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Host]

I was trying to leave. Honestly.

[Anna]

Yeah. How did that resolve between you two?

[Host]

We gave up, but we're. I think you have to like slowly ease into it.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like instead of a two hour meal, maybe do like 20 minutes at first.

[Anna]

Exactly. And like one thing you can do that's so simple and easy for, for everybody who's listening is just put your phones away and just like do eye gazing for one minute.

[Host]

I've heard about this.

[Anna]

Just like look into each other's eyes and that can be really scary. I want to try like one minute. Everybody can do that. Just one minute, like sit across from each other and just, just like no words.

[Host]

There's YouTube videos about this where they record couples that haven't seen each other in 30 years and they have to stare in each other's eyes.

[Anna]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

Beautiful.

[Anna]

That's beautiful.

[Host]

Yeah, it's powerful, right?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Host]

Have you tried that before? What happened?

[Anna]

It's ah, it's like you, you feel so, you feel so seen, feel so loved. It's, it's just like, it's hard to explain. It's hard to explain. It's just like, you just feel. It's, it can be a bit uncomfortable, but then it becomes comfortable. So like once you get past the awkwardness and the uncomfortableness, you just feel so loved and connected.

[Host]

Yeah, a lot.

[Anna]

And that's actually. Sorry to cut you off, but it's like if we're thinking like, why are people not having sex because we're constantly on the edge. Our nervous system's activated. You're on your phone, you're looking for dopamine. So what we need to do is. Is calm down.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because you're not horny if you're stressed out. Especially for women. Men are more like. Men are ready to go kind of all the time, but women need to feel safe. We don't need to be, like, just.

[Host]

Well, even me, because, like, I track my stress on this aura ring.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I've been stressed seven hours a day this week. I'm not, like, horny at all.

[Anna]

Of course not. Because you're focused on survival. Like, your body doesn't want to reproduce because you're trying to survive.

[Host]

Yeah. I didn't know there was a link this whole time, but the more I look into my data and I see, like, what weeks are stressful. There's a direct correlation 100. So.

[Anna]

So doing this, like, one minute eye gazing or just. Just, like, massages. Just, like, touching each other a little bit. Like. Like holding each other. That brings you. That brings you down. That brings you into your body, and, like, all of a sudden, you want to have sex.

[Host]

Yeah, it's.

[Anna]

It's like. It's literally like magic.

[Host]

Wow. I mean, I'm definitely. We do massages, but I'm definitely going to try the eye gazing because. Yeah, I noticed people don't look in your. At your eyes anymore.

[Anna]

I know.

[Host]

Like, you'd be surprised. So many of my podcast guests won't look me in the eyes.

[Anna]

Really?

[Host]

Yeah. And I used to be like that, too. I used to hate eye contact.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah. Because for me, also, like, people say that my eye gaze is intense.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Anna]

They're like, you know, so it's like maybe I just.

[Host]

Brown eyes. Yeah, it is a little intense.

[Anna]

Brown. Hazel. But it's just, like. Because I just. I look you, like, directly into your eyes.

[Host]

Yeah, it is intense. I'm looking you in the eyes right now.

[Anna]

I know your eye gaze is for one minute.

[Host]

A minute would be tough with you.

[Anna]

Yeah, maybe.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I don't know. See, it's too much.

[Host]

It is for a lot of people. They just can't look you in the eyes these days. It's a confidence thing, right? Yeah, I think so. I used to avoid eye contact because

[Anna]

avoiding lifestyle, it's a confidence thing, and it's an intimacy thing. It's a very intimate thing to. To look into someone's eyes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I believe that you see their soul that way.

[Host]

I've heard that.

[Anna]

So then it's okay.

[Host]

You can Tell when certain people have evil intentions with their eyes. Right?

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I have a story about this.

[Host]

Oh. Yeah?

[Anna]

It's. It's pretty crazy, but maybe it's okay to share. This is 2017. I developed a rehabilitation program in a Brazilian youth prison. As part of that, we did mental resilience and different exercises to help the inmates recover in, like, integrate back into society and not re. Offend. All the. All the boys, the teenagers that I work with, they were incredible humans. Just had a really tough start to life, except there was one that I wasn't allowed to work with. And I was curious, okay, like, what's. What's going on with this dude? And one day I asked the guards to take me to see him, and he was. He was standing, like, in this, like, standing cell alone, isolated, 24 7, like, not allowed to. To meet everybody, to. To leave the cell. He was 17, and he was in for his third murder at 17. And because I obviously, you know, studying psychology and working with these things, I think a lot about humanity and is anybody beyond hope? But when I looked into his eyes and I. Like always. Because it was like these, like, amber brown eyes, but there was no humanity left. Like, I look and it. It's like a beast. It's. But even lions or tigers, there is this element of emotion or there is something. But I looked into his eyes, and there was

[Host]

soulless.

[Anna]

Soulless.

[Host]

Like a demonic possession, maybe.

[Anna]

I don't know if it was demonic. All I remember. And also, I didn't have that much of an understanding. You know, it was almost 10 years ago.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But I feel like he was just gone.

[Host]

Wow.

[Anna]

He was just gone. And that his eyes just imprinted into my memory. That's why it came to my mind, because you said, like, staring into somebody's eyes and you can see ill intention, and it just.

[Host]

It's like a serial killer, like Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, no emotion in the eyes, maybe.

[Anna]

But I also feel like he was just. He was surviving, really. I mean, 17. If. If you've killed three people by the age you're 17, what humanity do you have left?

[Host]

You think the trauma just takes it out of you?

[Anna]

I think so. I think because before that, I thought, nobody's beyond hope. We can. You know, everybody can grow. And I guess to some degree, I still believe that, but you need to want it. But for him, it was. It was just so beyond. It was this beast, this soulless beast.

[Host]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Anna]

So I think also the learning from that is not everybody wants to grow not everybody wants to heal. Not everybody wants to change. So for listeners and people who are in the process of growth, who are listening to this podcast, who want to learn these things, you need to learn to recognize who's willing to grow with you. If you're dating somebody, you're in a relationship, you need to learn to understand yourself enough so that you can recognize when somebody's rising with you and. And who's dragging you down.

[Host]

I stopped trying to force change on people.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

A few years ago.

[Anna]

Same.

[Host]

I used to always try to bring everyone up with me. Take so much out of you.

[Anna]

It does. And it, it just, it holds you back.

[Host]

It does.

[Anna]

Do you have this kind of like savior complex or hero complex?

[Host]

I was a big people pleaser growing up, trying to fit in with everyone, trying to help everyone, and then it just does more harm than good. I think when you live that way.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, it makes sense because, like, I'm assuming that's the way you learn that you're lovable.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

By kind of putting your needs down and then helping everybody and your service.

[Host]

For sure.

[Anna]

Yeah, exactly. So that was just your coping mechanism. And then when you grow, when you integrate that, you learn that, wait a minute. I don't need to abandon myself to be loved, and I don't need to save everybody to receive love.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I'm lovable as I am. And I have these people around me who love me, and these are the people that I'm going to take care of, and these are the people who's gonna. Who are gonna take care of me.

[Host]

Yeah. I used to try to have a lot of friends. Like, I used to want to have a ton of friends, but I realized it's not sustainable, you know?

[Anna]

No. And it's. That's also, it's natural to have that because also, as you know, you grow up in childhood, teenage years, it's like, oh, those are the cool kids.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Have a lot of friends. But as you grow, you realize that it's. It's not about quantity. It's about quality.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

100%.

[Anna]

And I'm very specific. I'm very loving and very open. I love, I love everyone, but I'm very specific on who's in my close circle.

[Host]

You have to be.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because they shape who I am and who I'm becoming.

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[Anna]

Quantumupgradeio and I love deeply, I'm very devoted, you know, friend or, or daughter or sister or partner. And that's why I need to be. Not need to. I choose to, I choose to protect my energy.

[Host]

You have to.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

What's the current project you're working on now? A book or you going anywhere?

[Anna]

Yeah, well, I'm just launching my new metamorphosis program, which is based on my experience in psychology and sexology, but it's also deeper than that into ego death and spiritual growth and the connection and the deep dives that we need to do as humans to elevate and to grow. So I put that into, into a program that I'm working with people and I'm super excited about that. And one gift that I wanted to give to the listeners was a giveaway where one of the one of you guys can win the journey with me. So come work with me one on one, go deep into the traumas, into the disconnection, into the relationships and, and really evolve through that.

[Host]

We'll have a link for that right in the video.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

If you guys want to get over your trauma, man, have a, have an ego death.

[Anna]

I know, but it's, but it's like, it's not superficial. It's like only if you're ready to, to like really look in the.

[Host]

You have to be willing to change. To change.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

Ego death. I've had a couple of those.

[Anna]

They're pretty hardcore.

[Host]

They are intense. Almost destroyed me the first one.

[Anna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

What's been your, your researching them or what are you doing with ego deaths? Exactly.

[Anna]

Well, lived through them. I think that's the best, that's the best research you could. The thing is that what you see online, a lot of people like, oh, I just went through an ego death and I kind of like this fun little thing. When you go through an actual ego death, you feel like you're dying every single day. And not only you feel like you're dying, you want to die. You want to die to escape from the pain that you're going through because your ego is dissolving. All your shadows are coming to the surface. Your, you know, your traumas and it's just everything. And in a way, you do die. Your old self dies to make room for growth. So my biggest teaching in eco death has been going through it and sitting with it, surrendering to it, and allowing it to happen without trying to perform it. Because I also have this perfectionist tendency that's like my coping isn't people pleasing, all self abandoning. I relate a lot with what you shared.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So a big part of growth for me has just been acceptance and loving myself as I am and allowing myself just have a human experience and just. Just be lovable like this.

[Host]

Yeah. Were you on psychedelics when you had your ego death?

[Anna]

Yes and no, because. So the last one I had was no psychedelics, no nothing. It was just. But it was. Was like three weeks.

[Host]

Oh my gosh.

[Anna]

Yeah, that. Yeah. Three weeks without escaping it. Like, feeling. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's intense.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But I chose not to escape it with. With anything. But also as therapeutic psychedelics have been a part of my journey and helped me reprogram my mind and body and, and, and nervous system in different ways. So it is something, you know, that people. How do I say it? I think it can be such a beneficial tool in your healing journey, but it's such. Also a dangerous one because I. There's so many people. There's doing like 30 ayahuascas. And yeah, it's just another way to escape.

[Host]

My friend texted me from the jungle yesterday. He's like, you should come out and do ayahuasca.

[Anna]

I know, but it's just like,

[Host]

I'm good. I'm good on that one.

[Anna]

Honestly. If we sum up our conversation, it's like escaping biohacking, dating psychedelics, all these things, the. The true growth and the true hacks are just sitting with yourself.

[Host]

Going inwards, going inwards.

[Anna]

Psychedelics can help with that. Biohacking can help with that. Other people, relationships can help with that. But you, you need to sit with yourself. I need to. You need to look at yourself.

[Host]

You could find a lot of answers from within.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, most people don't set time to do that, though. They're just moving so Fast.

[Anna]

No, it's so much easier to scroll on, on like tick tock or Instagram for 30 minutes then sit with yourself. Like when was the last time you sat by yourself without anything for an hour?

[Host]

Do you count the sauna or. No, no, like nothing for an hour without any technology. I can't even remember. Yeah, it's probably been 5 plus years.

[Anna]

That's what I mean.

[Host]

Cuz I have ADHD so when I try to meditate it doesn't work. You know, my brain's all over the place.

[Anna]

Have you tried movement, meditation like walking or walking or just moving your, your body? Cuz I also have ADHD and for. What works for me is getting into my body. So I do, I meditate, I do yoga or I just move my body freely and that's. It can be considered a feminine practice. But I think that's something that could help you in getting out of your mind into your body.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Probably.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Sitting still is terrible. Yeah, it's. It's really hard. So just having that movement, just go for a run or go to the gym and, and do those kind of things can help you.

[Host]

Good advice. Thank you. I'll try that next time. Yeah, I, I guess when I think of meditation I think of like sitting still. But there's different types, right?

[Anna]

Yeah, there's different ways and, and also just being in nature. Being still in nature is a lot easier than inside four walls.

[Host]

Yeah, for sure. Well, this was, this was fun. We'll link your website, your social media, anything else you want to close off with here?

[Anna]

I think I just want to close off with love. Like guys, like it's, it's hard out there, but there's so much hope. There's so many people who want to grow, who want to love, want to learn how to love themselves and how, how to love you. So just, just believe in hope and give the love that you want to receive. Give that to the world and it will. Love you.

[Host]

Love you guys. See ya.

[Anna]

Thank.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thanks for watching to the end guys. Please comment below your thoughts on the

[Host]

episode if you agree.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

If you disagree, I'd love to hear. I read every single comment. Means a lot to me.

[Host]

Thank you so much.