A (1:42)

Yeah, but you are. You pretty extroverted guy.

B (1:45)

I'm actually introverted.

A (1:46)

Really?

B (1:46)

To huge introvert.

A (1:48)

Okay. So you would never know. Isn't that funny?

B (1:50)

I could toggle it for podcasts.

A (1:51)

Yeah, yeah. But like, the expo is a lot for my nervous system. It's like, it's cool, but it's like, yeah, people overload.

B (1:58)

I actually, I feel more energy drain at like walking the halls there than a podcast.

A (2:02)

Oh, yeah, 100%. I'm good with one on one. It's like, yeah, we're pretty similar.

B (2:06)

Yeah.

A (2:06)

Do you know what enneagram you are? Enneagram is like one to nine is a number. No.

B (2:12)

What is it?

A (2:12)

I'll send you the quiz later. But yeah, it's just people's motivation of life. Yeah.

B (2:18)

Enneagram.

A (2:19)

Enneagram. E N N E A G R

B (2:21)

A M yeah, I'll definitely take that.

A (2:23)

Yeah.

B (2:23)

I love taking tests like that.

A (2:24)

Yeah.

B (2:25)

What number are you, though?

A (2:26)

5. It's a researcher, like, the researcher. But the companies use the enneagram. Relationships use enneagram to, like, better understand people. I always ask telehealth patients, like, what their enneagram is because everybody receives information differently. Everybody kind of sees the world, perceives it a bit differently.

B (2:43)

Yeah, yeah. Not everyone views, like, every single person has different perspective on the world.

A (2:47)

Yeah, absolutely.

B (2:48)

That's what I'm realizing.

A (2:49)

Yeah.

B (2:50)

Like, if they don't see it your way, whatever. I mean. Yeah. Some people see that as a disagreement, but you just got to realize it's a different perspective on life.

A (2:57)

Yeah. Be okay with. It's what true tolerance is. Being okay with differences. Right.

B (3:02)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. A lot of talk on gut health at this conference. I've noticed that seems to be like a booming thing.

A (3:08)

Yeah. Really? Okay. So I've been talking about the gut health for 16 years. I love talking about it, but I always feel like everybody knows about it. But you're right. I think it's having its.

B (3:15)

Maybe it does seem to be a resurgence.

A (3:17)

Yeah. Research.

B (3:18)

So you knew back then that there was some major stuff going on.

A (3:21)

I mean, yeah, if you follow the research. Alessio Fasano and these different guys that have been talking about the microbiome and the kind of connection you can't. And like, my main people that we help clinically are people on this sort of larger autoimmune inflammation spectrum. And you really can't have a meaningful, like, conversation or even help somebody with autoimmunity or any inflammatory problem without understanding the gut health. So it's. I'm glad that it's having its, like, time in the sun because it's going to be aha. Moments, I think, for people that are really struggling that you don't necessarily have to have overt extreme digestive issues to have underlying gut components to, like, skin issues or mental health issues or hormonal problems or other inflammatory issues. So it's. It's good that people are talking about it.

B (4:07)

Yeah, I know autoimmune is a big deal right now. I definitely want to get your opinion on. On my blood work, too. Yeah, anytime. Up on my. My last two, actually.

A (4:15)

Send me your labs.

B (4:15)

Okay. Thank you.

A (4:16)

I would love to see it. Yeah.

B (4:17)

Yeah. I was shocked, but I guess it's. It's becoming more and more common.

A (4:20)

It is. Yeah, it is. Sadly, I mean, there's better awareness, so there's that, but it's way more than just more people are aware. It's like that we. It doesn't take a researcher to look around and say more people are struggling with these autoimmune inflammation issues. That wasn't the thing a few decades ago. It's definitely exploded.

B (4:41)

Yeah. I'm sure you've seen a huge increase since you've been doing this for a while now. Yeah.

A (4:44)

And more complex issues, like, it's not as simple as just like, don't have that junk food, you know, work out. Like, the basic generic wellness advice is not cutting it for a lot of people. So. Yeah, we have to kind of evolve with the times and what we're facing.

B (4:56)

Yeah. Why do you think that is the basic advice?

A (4:58)

Researchers estimate it's. They kind of explain it this way, is that there's an epigenetic genetic mismatch that our genetics haven't changed in thousands of years, but yet our world has changed dramatically in a very finite period of time. When you're putting that, you know, in context with human history, so it's not just one thing, but it's this epigenetic genetic mismatches, evolutionary mismatch, when with our DNA, our microbiome, all the trillions of bacteria remain, you know, unchanged. Yet this chasm with the world around us, we're living in a brave new world.

B (5:31)

Right.

A (5:32)

So it's the foods we're eating or the foods we're not eating. Chronic stress, unresolved trauma, environmental toxins is significant because it's just a few generations. The humans and the microbiome had to even deal with these things. So it's a confluence of factors. It's the, you know, the entourage effect of what's triggering these genetic predispositions that have always been there, lying dormant, but are being triggered like never before in human history because of this, this mismatch between genetics and epigenetics.

B (6:01)

It's almost like the body can't adapt fast enough to the average environment.

A (6:04)

Yeah. And that's what researchers are saying, like, well, if you give this enough time, we maybe the human body and the microbiome won't be as sensitive to these things. And maybe that's true, but there's a lot of pain in the meantime. Yeah, but I just think it's inextricably linked to what's even happening on an environmental level. Right. Like there's so much pollution and shifts planetarily. Well, our gut microbiome is intimately connected to the soil microbiome in which the food and the plants and the planet it grows in. So it's one in the same.

B (6:37)

When you say connected, what do you mean?

A (6:39)

Well, we are what our, you know the cliche is you are what you eat, right? Yeah, but we are more what our microbiome eats. We are what we absorb, we are what we digest. And 75% of our immune system is in the gut. The gut and brain are actually formed from the same fetal tissue. So when babies are growing in the mother's womb, gut and brain are formed from that same core and are inextricably linked for the rest of our life through what's known as the gut brain axis, the guts. If you think about it, the intestines even resemble the brain. 95% of serotonin, our happy neurotransmitter, is made in the gut. 50% of dopamine, our pleasure neurotransmitter, is made and stored in the gut and they work upon the vagus nerve. But the connection to the soil microbiome is we're eating food. We are interconnecting. We are around our environment and the soil microbiome because of what herbicides and pesticides and the way that we farm today, sort of the big ag, sort of the industrialization of the farming industry have really impacted our gut microbiome negatively. Because if something's an herbicide and pesticide to the farming world, think of what that's doing to the gut microbiome, the gut garden that we have that impacts our immune system. Inflammation is a product of the immune system. Pretty much every health problem that we're facing as a society, autoimmune issues, mental health issues, metabolic problems, fertility issues, are all inflammatory in nature or some sort of dysregulation of the body. So it's one and the same. We are not separate from nature. We're inextricably linked.

B (8:11)

Yeah, I've had Dr. Zach Bush on he.

A (8:13)

Oh, yes, exactly.

B (8:14)

He was the first one who put me onto the soil epidemic, they call it. But crazy stuff, man, it's wild.

A (8:19)

But we can't wait for nation states to go and change things. I mean, we have to. We will not live in a utopia.

B (8:26)

They might never change it, honestly.

A (8:28)

Yeah, exactly. And it's the. Some of these chemicals, like forever chemicals, pfas, they're called forever chemicals for a reason. So even if you start regulating them and getting them diminished. Yes, but they're already in the environment, so what can you do today? You can't live in some BPA free plastic bubble. You have to live life. The body's amazingly resilient when you give it the chance to do so. So this isn't about like fear mongering, this is about empowering. And it's like Maya Angelou said, when you know better, you do better. And, and many people just don't know better and how they going to do better.

B (8:58)

Is there a site that has like really good farms that you can kind of buy stuff off of?

A (9:02)

Yeah, I, I don't know of a directory specifically but I would say looking at local farms that are doing good practices, regenerative farms, I think those are some key words. Farm farms that use regenerative practices even if they're not certified organic. Knowing your farmer is profoundly important because maybe the local farmer doesn't have the money and the resources to go and pay for the certification and all the, all that stuff. But if you get to know them and know, yeah, these are the practices that go visit the farm, go to the farmer's market, go and meet these people that are doing good work, that are maybe below the radar, that are doing good things and then yes, support companies that are doing good things, that are maybe in the health food store, in the Target or Walmart that are practicing better for you practices when it comes to transparency and quality farming practice.

B (9:53)

Yeah, you mentioned organic earlier. What's your take on organic produce? Because that's being questioned right now.

A (9:57)

Yeah, look, it's not perfect. It's not a perfect, perfect system. A lot of things, there's thresholds to these things that herbicides and pesticides that are still classified as organic. Then you could have a farm next to the organic farm and there's runoff where it's kind of the honor system and maybe calling falling through the cracks of the regulatory system, but it's still the best system we've got. If you're not shopping local and supporting local farmers and getting to know them, how are you going to get to know every random company you're buying at the, at the store, at the grocery store? So you have to do the best, best you can with the resources you have and then give the rest to God. You can't be perfect. Like stressing about this stuff isn't good for your health either. So I think you just have to do the best you can and then like, okay, I've done it and then make your life supportive of these detoxification pathways because your body's amazingly resilient. You don't have to be perfect. I guess is what I'm trying to say.

B (10:52)

Stress is a big one. I've been trying to figure out lately

A (10:54)

how are you doing with it?

B (10:55)

Sauna, working out walks, diet for sure.

A (10:59)

Yeah. Do you get stressed easily? Are you more towards like the anxious?

B (11:04)

So when you measure my body it says I'm stressed. So I know, I know I'm getting stressed. I guess I just push it away and I don't ever show it or.

A (11:11)

Yeah. You know, you seem pretty stoic. Like pretty.

B (11:13)

I try to be, yeah.

A (11:14)

Yeah.

B (11:14)

But I'm definitely stressed.

A (11:15)

Yeah. I'm the same way people are like how? Because I trend towards anxiety. And it's something that it's all, it's. We all have our own weak points, things that we need to work on. So I think that's another thing too is that even people that live and breathe this wellness stuff, we're not perfect. And to be bring a little humanity to it and like we all have stubborn areas that we need to, you know, pay attention to.

B (11:38)

Have you seen anything work though, for stress?

A (11:40)

Yeah, I mean a lot, I think. And I have to practice what I teach my telehealth patients, really. It's just like, especially when things come up with deadlines and busyness and all that stuff, what can I do today to start to nourish my health? So I typically, and this is what I tell our telehealth patients is pick something on the physi physiological side and something on the mental, emotional, spiritual side that you can do for yourself today. So your gut, as I mentioned earlier, it's 75% of the immune system. It's your second brain. So do something to be supportive of. Gut health is tremendously like something that I do to support my mental health. So I do lots of soups and stews, like broths that are almost pre digested in a way. It is easy to digest because it's kind of cooked soft meat, cooked soft vegetables. It is like a proverbial siesta for the gut. And like any, any one of our ancestors, depending on where you came from, like soup, like the cliche of chicken noodle soup when you're sick. It's not the noodles that are the healthy part, it's the, the fact that it is this sort of calming medicine to the gut, the second brain. So I do lots of soups and sues when I'm stressed out. It's like kind of restorative to the gut. It's grounding to a stressed out nervous system and then making, you know, a consistent practice to breath work. I wear one of these transcutaneous vagal nerve stimulators have you tried that?

B (13:06)

No. What is up?

A (13:07)

It's like they're like, almost like the way that I describe it is like it feels like an E stim but on your ear or on your neck. And it's getting to these branches, the auricular branch of the vagus nerve, which is responsible for that resting, digesting, the parasympathetic aspect of the nervous system. So it's. I like it because it's something passive I can do without having to like do another thing which is again, can be stressful.

B (13:31)

Just leave it on and leave it

A (13:32)

on for 20 minutes. There's many devices that are doing that, are many companies that are making these devices. They all have really compelling data and they're a great way to stimulate that weak nerve. Because most people, maybe you and I, many people out there that have busy lives and our fight or flight response is very easily overactive. That sympathetic fight or flight freeze fawn is overreactive. What is weak in us? It's that resting, digesting, it's the parasympathetic. So we need to bring in supporters of the parasympathetic. And yes, food is important with that, like the healthier you can get your gut. It's supporting the parasympathetic, but we also need to bring in these other practices. So meditation, breath, work, grounding, like why there's so many conversations around these happening in the world and is because we're so freaking stressed out as a society and we need to strengthen the vagus nerve. So it's kind of like a seesaw. Like the sympathetic is overactive.

B (14:23)

Yeah.

A (14:24)

Parasympathetic is underactive. We need to sort of regulate it a bit more. That's what nervous system regulation is all about. So those are some things I find successful for myself. Magnesium is a game changer for me.

B (14:34)

Start taking that go.

A (14:35)

What type of like form of it?

B (14:37)

Magnesium. Glyco.

A (14:40)

Gly. Glycinate. Glycine. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Well, absorbable form. Yeah. It's responsible for hundreds of different pathways. I look at labs all day long. Most people are deficient in magnesium. And even if they're eating good foods and even if they're nutrient dense foods, supplementing is appropriate here. But you want to make sure it's these absorbable forms of it and not just ones that you're. Because magnesium citrate has its place. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place, but it's what people take when they have constipation and it's not being absorbed as readily. So I like code of magnesium complexes. I have one that's called Mag 18 from Longevity RX that I like. There's 18 different forms of magnesium with a D3K2.

B (15:25)

I take that too.

A (15:26)

Which is another very common deficiency. Our brain needs it, Our nervous system needs these things, magnesium, D3K2. So yeah, that's another game changer for me.

B (15:34)

Yeah, my D3 was 24. I've always had a D3 deficiency on every single blood test I've taken.

A (15:39)

Yeah. Even living in Vegas.

B (15:41)

Yeah, well, I'm inside all day, but yeah, I am.

A (15:43)

Okay. Yeah.

B (15:44)

But even in Vegas people still have it, oh, 100%.

A (15:46)

I see people, telehealth patients in Vegas, Miami, Scottsdale. You'd think, okay, these people would be fine. No, well, first of all, like to your point, they may live there, but they're not outside in the heat of the day. But even beyond that, it is. We're covered up with our clothing. We're not walking around with, you know, loincloths. Most of us aren't at least. And then we're in sunscreen and kind of over correcting with the protection sometimes too. That's inhibiting the nutrient. Our brain needs this. Our brain is rich with these vitamin D receptor sites. Our mood so important, our nervous system so important, our immune system so important in our cardiovascular health, it's so important. And then on top of that, these environmental toxin burdens, it's depleting these nutrients because the body's spending more than it's taking in. So most of our telehealth patients, when they're meeting us, they are supplementing, but they're still deficient. So yes, it's a gut health and absorption issue, but I also think it's an expenditure issue that when the body's stressed out, it's just utilizing more magnesium, vitamin D3 and B vitamins to just maintain homeostasis or even try. That makes sense to maintain homeostasis. So when you kind of deregulate the. Or down, down. De. Stress the body, improve gut health, lower inflammation, then the expenditure goes down. And you can like, okay, just use food as medicine and not be.

B (17:03)

Yeah.

A (17:03)

And it on supplements.

B (17:04)

So when you do a lab, is that measuring gut health like a blood test?

A (17:07)

Blood test can measure some gut biomarkers like lipopolysaccharides is one. This is a bacterial toxin that when you hear people talk about leaky gut syndrome. Right. Things are passing through the gut that shouldn't be able to Pass through the gut. Those. That is the seminal event of what researchers say is triggers inflammatory problems, autoimmune problems. So that could be measured via blood. But typically a gut health test is going to be stool and then some blood biomarkers. Blood tests are looking at your metabolism, hormones, inflammation levels, the immune system, cardiometabolic markers. Some. Yeah, so those are. So we run typically blood test, stool tests during saliva tests. Depending on what that person's health history needs will determine what biomarkers are appropriate.

B (17:49)

Okay, so I might have to get a stool test.

A (17:51)

Yeah. And on. Anytime you want this stuff, reach out.

B (17:54)

Thank you. Yeah. I feel like since the gut is so important, everyone should be getting a stool test. Right.

A (17:58)

It should be part of like a pcp. It should be part of, like a general practitioner. And that's what we're trying to change. Right. Even from a governmental standpoint, to democratize this information because it is so important and we're only a few decades away when we're going to be forced to kind of really recognize what we're talking about at a conference like this. I mean, talking about longevity. Yes. It can kind of get to like the sort of the niche academic sort of pathways. But on just a real person, even if you're not in the health space, you're gonna have to figure this stuff out. You're gonna have to look at the foods you're eating. You're have to look at the environmental toxin component. You have to look at your gut health if you want to live a healthy life or if you want your family to live a healthy life. These are going to be a human issue, whether we want to talk about it or not.

B (18:45)

Yeah. Because right now, if you go to the doctor to get a checkup, they're not testing.

A (18:48)

No, exactly. They're trained to diagnose a disease and match it with a medication. That's the training. So this isn't an indictment of a particular. Your local doctor. This is a system issue that is really looking at this medicinal matching game. And that's another thing that we're trying to change on a sort of policy standpoint of shifting what universities, medical schools are even teaching people because the majority of patients that they're seeing are sick and there because of lifestyle changes. But yet researchers have shown in studies that the average doctor, medical doctor, that's conventionally trained would fail a basic nutrition test.

B (19:28)

That's ironic, right?

A (19:29)

As wild. But then they refer out to rds, and it's sort of the orthodoxy of like the food pyramid or to the My plate. And I mean, we're doing. I mean, we're spending more on healthcare than any industrialized nation, yet we have the shortest lifespan and the most chronic disease of all industrialized nations. So it's the definition of insanity.

B (19:49)

Yeah. 71 for males now, right?

A (19:51)

Yeah.

B (19:51)

Crazy.

A (19:52)

It is. Yeah. It is wild. And we're the most medicated. We're the most medicated. It is not working for us. It's doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Yeah. So it's. It's great if you need medications and some people do need to be on medication. So I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's. A lot of people, more than ever before in human history, are falling through the cracks of this sort of reductive view of human health. Things are changing. There's pockets of good stuff. I mean, mainstream institutions like the Cleveland Clinic have functional medicine centers now. They don't. They didn't have that 16 years ago when we got into this space. So it's becoming more and more mainstream and like the convergence and having more of a both and not either or approach to health care, that's how we're going to help people. Because there's a time and place, obviously, for medication. There's a time and place for surgeries, of course, like, there can be a godsend. But what do you do for the epidemic rise of chronic health problems? Like, you can't. Well, we can try to, but we've tried already and we're failing at just giving more pharmaceuticals out when these people are not sick with chronic health problems from a pharmaceutical deficiency.

B (20:57)

Yeah.

A (20:58)

So let's figure out what's causing it for sure.

B (21:00)

You mentioned trying to change the policy earlier. Have you gotten any progress on that? I know it takes a long time.

A (21:04)

Yeah. I'm not in white, I'm not in D.C. i'm there if they ever need a functional medicine perspective on things. But I have been a part of the conversations. Let's just say that I've been part of the conversations of the Maha movement and getting, you know, I'm more actually interested in not the federal policy. I'm more interested in the increased awareness that this Maha movement has done for the average person. I talked to some corporate heads at Walmart a few months ago, and they were telling me how the average Walmart customer was asking about questions of their ingredients and their food.

B (21:38)

Really? At Walmart?

A (21:40)

Yeah. They've improved label literacy because of this information. So, yeah, to answer your question, yeah, I think that I'm Excited about what this coalition, this diverse coalition of people are doing within the movement. I think Secretary Kennedy is doing amazing things. He's a brave, brave man. Cali Means is a friend of mine. Casey Means is a good friend of mine. These people are good people. They're, they're, they're righteous people trying to do great things in a really dark system. So I think the Dietary Guidelines rolling out and really focusing on nutrient density talk, calling out ultra processed foods, having meaningful conversations and not demonizing things like healthy fats, not demonizing things like red meat and good quality dairy. These whole foods that have been really, there's been a lot of stigma around them for a long time. And you can see statistics of. Since the Dietary Guidelines originally came out in the 1980s, the rate of obesity has gone up exponentially. And you could. The average American consumption, saturated fat has gone down, healthy fats have gone down since the 1980s. Refined carbohydrate consumption has gone up since the 1980s. I mean it's the base of the food pyramid. It's the bulk of the MyPlate. And what have we seen in that time span? An epidemic rise of chronic health problems. Of course, I'm not saying it's just the Dietary Guidelines, but the Dietary Guidelines informs conversations with doctors and dietitians, informs the average public awareness on what is quote, unquote healthy. And it shifts marketplaces, it shifts startups, it shifts companies to start to provide innovative ways. And it shifts what they're feeding in public schools, it shifts what their feeding people in hospitals. I mean, just go to a hospital. Anybody that's eaten hospital food, it's like cliche. What is it based on? The Dietary Guidelines. So we are set up to fail. It's what we feed our military, it's what we feed our people in prison. So I think the Dietary Guidelines and what Secretary Kennedy is trying to do is profoundly important. I think closing these generally recognized as safe, these grass loopholes where we can get these sort of ingredients that are completely toxic and require warning labels in other countries trying to close those. Getting junk food and, you know, sodas and sugary drinks out of the SNAP programs is a no brainer. This is just common sense nutrition stuff and we have a long way to go. But I think we're on the right track and we've never had a group of outsiders get on the inside. And you could see the hyperventilating that's happening in D.C. i mean the, the hubris, the arrogance, as if they've been some amazing success through orthodoxy I mean, it is. They doth protest too much, as they say.

B (24:35)

Yeah, I saw some of those. I don't know if you were part of that group that went to what was at court or something. The protest.

A (24:40)

Yeah, the. I was at the. The announcing of the phasing out of the artificial food dyes. I got to be on stage.

B (24:48)

That was a big deal. Congrats on.

A (24:49)

Yeah, that was a big one. That started out with Kellogg's. Is this my water?

B (24:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (24:53)

Okay.

B (24:54)

Yeah, that Kellogg's petition was crazy. Yeah, we all food babe, right?

A (24:57)

Yeah. Vonnie Hari. Have you. She been on their podcast? Oh, she's. Yeah. So, yeah, we all went to Michigan where Kellogg's was. And this is right before the election, and we didn't know what it would become. And that was right around the time where this. I. What I think it kind of made maha to the next level of this sort of diverse coalition of people in the functional medicine space, people in the nutrition space, people in the food activism, the environmental space, and just average moms and dads and people that know just common sense that what we're doing isn't working and we need to do something different to see something different. And that exploded. And of course the media kind of twisted everything and made it just about the food dyes. It's not just about the food dies. But I think it was a good line in the sand of saying, look, this, if anything, the food dies me. It was the 11th hour of these things. It was already. Legislation was already on the table. I mean, they phased that one Red Die 3, whatever it was the last hour before the administration took over. The Biden administration took it out. That's why these conversations were happening, because we thought it was going to be. When I say we, but mainly Vonni Hari and Jason Karp. Do you know Jason? No. Amazing. Another amazing guy. They thought this is something that could bring everybody together who could contend contest artificial food diets. Because there's a lot of different opinions within nutrition as far as saturated fats and protein and, you know, carbs or no carbs, high fat, low fat. But artificial food diets. The group thought this is something that's universal. Let's bring people together. But then because we didn't realize there's so much toxic tribalism, even to the level of the cognitive dissonance of fighting for food dies. I mean, the amount of people that I just out of the woodwork that just would die on the die hill. It is.

B (26:51)

It's already banned in other countries, though.

A (26:52)

I know but it's. They just hate someone so bad. President Trump and rfk, that they. And rfk that they can't even come together on the things that they otherwise would come together on. And that's what you're dealing with. You're really dealing with someone that's so committed to misunderstanding and committed to being contrarian.

B (27:11)

That's his ego at that point. Yeah, it is. It's okay. Yeah. So many haters on him, especially from the pharma industry. It's.

A (27:18)

Yeah. But at that point, it's like, I get here. But like, isn't that the sign of. He's on the right track? Like, look at the people that are really. Like, their brains are breaking about it.

B (27:27)

Yeah.

A (27:27)

Like, to me, that's like the easiest, most elementary level of being, like. Yeah. The system that created the most chronic disease in human history. If they're freaking out about it, I think we're doing the right thing.

B (27:37)

Yeah. Well, it's. It's become a business, Right?

A (27:40)

Yeah.

B (27:40)

It's like the fourth largest GDP in the world.

A (27:42)

Yeah. I mean, the most profitable thing in right now in our society as a sick person. I mean, it is the sick care system for a reason.

B (27:51)

Yeah. So it's almost like we're just being logical about it. How do we get out of that, you know, as a business point of view.

A (27:57)

Yeah. And how do we empower people? Because, I mean, look, it's. It's. If I'm doing a good job with our telehealth patients, I become obsolete. I don't want a forever patient.

B (28:07)

Right.

A (28:07)

I don't want a patient in perpetuity. I want to get to the point where I'm empowering them, and then we can move on to the next person. Because there's not. There's there's so much. There's so many people to help. But this sort of perpetual customer, this revolving door, it is how the system's set up. It is disease management, which, again, has its place. But it is the sort of orthodoxy around chronic health. It's failing us. It's failing us as a society.

B (28:32)

Absolutely. Dr. Cole, thanks for your time today, man. People, watch your show and keep up with you.

A (28:36)

Thanks, man, for the opportunity. This went by so quickly.

B (28:39)

Yeah, you were a beast.

A (28:40)

Thanks, Buddy. Everything's at Dr. WillCole.com d r w I l c o dash l e dot com. Anytime you want to come on my podcast. Thank you, Please. Standing invitation. It's called the Art of Being well. And, yeah, there's tons of free resources at Dr. Willcole. Awesome.

B (28:54)

Thanks for your time today.

A (28:54)

Thanks, buddy.

B (28:55)

Yeah, check them out, guys. Check out the show. See you next time. Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. Means a lot to me. If you could please leave a review on Apple that helps us climb the charts. It helps us. Us get way more guests, and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.