Why A-Players Never Need to Look for Jobs (CEO Reveals) | Nathan Chan DSH #1001

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Why A-Players Never Need to Look for Jobs (CEO Reveals) | Nathan Chan DSH #1001

Release Date: December 21, 2024

In episode #1001 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a profound conversation with Nathan Chan, the visionary CEO from Australia. This episode delves deep into the mindset and strategies that enable top-tier professionals—referred to as A-Players—to thrive without the constant need to seek new employment opportunities. Through an insightful dialogue, Nathan shares his journey, the evolution of his company Founder, and the principles that underpin building sustainable businesses and high-performing teams.

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1. Introduction to Nathan Chan and Founder

Sean Kelly welcomes Nathan Chan, recognizing him as possibly the first Australian guest on the show. Their light-hearted exchange about visiting Australia and Nathan’s experience with kangaroos sets a friendly tone for the episode.

Key Quote:

"Nathan, welcome. Thanks for coming on." [01:10]

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2. Nathan’s Entrepreneurial Journey in Australia

Nathan recounts his early days in Australia, highlighting the lack of a robust entrepreneurial network compared to the United States. He introduces the concept of Tall Poppy Syndrome, a cultural trait in Australia where individuals are often discouraged from standing out or achieving significant success.

Key Quote:

"We have something called Tall Poppy Syndrome. Have you heard of that? No." [02:53]

This cultural challenge initially made Nathan hesitant about pursuing entrepreneurship. However, his innate hustler spirit and desire to enjoy his work led him to inadvertently stumble into the entrepreneurial path.

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3. Founding and Evolving Founder Magazine

Nathan discusses the inception of Founder, initially launched as Key to Success. Early challenges included a trademark infringement lawsuit from Success Magazine, which compelled him to rebrand. This adversity turned into a blessing, as the new name Founder resonated strongly within the entrepreneurial community.

Key Quote:

"I changed the name. Sorted all that out by changing the name. I called it Founder. That was the best thing that ever happened to me." [28:54]

By pivoting to a one-word brand, Nathan capitalized on the power of simplicity and memorability, aligning Founder alongside global giants like Google and Facebook.

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4. Transition to Founder Plus: Building a Membership Community

Recognizing the shifting landscape of digital content consumption, Nathan elaborates on Founder’s pivot from a digital magazine to a membership-based platform. Founder now offers a rich repository of interviews, courses, and masterclasses focused on entrepreneurship, particularly in the E-commerce niche.

Key Quote:

"Our real focus is now building our membership site... it's like a masterclass for entrepreneurship." [05:36]

This strategic move addresses the community's demand for deeper, actionable insights from successful founders, moving beyond mere storytelling to offering tangible educational resources.

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5. Building Sustainable Businesses vs. Quick Fixes

Nathan emphasizes the importance of building sustainable brands over transient business models like drop shipping. He critiques the "get rich quick" mentality, advocating instead for creating businesses that solve real problems and foster long-term growth.

Key Quote:

"We're more about owning the customer, owning the relationship, building something that's a scalable asset." [11:04]

This philosophy aligns with Founder’s mission to cultivate entrepreneurs who are committed to lasting success rather than fleeting profits.

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6. The Art of Interviewing High-Profile Founders

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Nathan’s approach to interviewing successful founders. He highlights the importance of storytelling that delves into the adversities and vulnerabilities that even billionaires face.

Key Quote:

"The more that we can get the guest to share the difficult stuff... how hard it is to build a business." [13:03]

Nathan believes that uncovering these authentic stories not only humanizes these icons but also provides invaluable lessons for listeners striving to emulate their success.

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7. Content Strategy and Leveraging Interviews

Nathan elaborates on his content strategy, which involves maximizing the value of each interview by repurposing content across various platforms—podcasts, articles, social media, and more. This multi-channel approach ensures broader distribution and engagement.

Key Quote:

"Take this interview and turn into like 30 pieces of content... you sweat the asset more." [25:10]

By leveraging each piece of content to its fullest potential, Nathan ensures that Founder remains a prominent and influential brand within the entrepreneurial space.

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8. Hiring A-Players Through Networks

Nathan shares his insights on building high-performing teams, emphasizing the importance of hiring A-Players through personal and professional networks rather than traditional job boards. He asserts that top talent often doesn't seek jobs actively; instead, they are approached based on their proven track records and reputation.

Key Quote:

"A players never have to look for jobs. People keep finding them." [22:25]

This strategy not only attracts exceptional talent but also fosters a culture of excellence and mutual respect within the organization.

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9. Branding and the Significance of Founder

The discussion returns to the significance of branding, particularly why the name Founder was pivotal in establishing credibility and trust. Nathan underscores that a strong, singular brand name is more memorable and impactful, aligning Founder with other globally recognized brands.

Key Quote:

"We own the word for founder and that's synonymous amongst entrepreneurship." [27:06]

This branding excellence has been instrumental in Founder’s growth and recognition within the entrepreneurial community.

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10. Networking and Expanding Influence

Nathan touches upon the importance of networking and building relationships with other influential figures. He shares his aspiration to interview top-tier personalities like Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk, illustrating his commitment to continually expanding Founder’s reach and influence.

Key Quote:

"We're just building up such a massive community now. I'm like one or two degrees away from anyone I want." [31:18]

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11. Overcoming Challenges in Content Distribution

Both Sean and Nathan discuss the evolving landscape of content distribution, noting challenges such as declining YouTube views and the impact of platforms like TikTok on attention spans. Nathan acknowledges these hurdles but remains optimistic about adapting Founder’s strategies to maintain and grow its audience.

Key Quote:

"You could go viral on Instagram and TikTok with no followers. But YouTube, it's tough." [35:31]

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12. The Future of Founder and Final Insights

As the conversation wraps up, Nathan shares his plans for the future, including re-establishing Founder’s presence in key markets like New York and continuing to innovate in content delivery and community building. He reiterates Founder’s mission to support entrepreneurs in starting and growing sustainable businesses.

Key Quote:

"Founder.com want to learn how to start or grow an E-commerce business, so we'd love to support you on the journey." [38:36]

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Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a comprehensive look into Nathan Chan’s entrepreneurial ethos and the strategic decisions that have propelled Founder to the forefront of the digital entrepreneurship space. From overcoming cultural challenges and legal hurdles to building a robust content strategy and fostering a community of A-Players, Nathan’s insights provide invaluable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders alike.

Final Notable Quote:

"Building a great company and culture where great people want to work is absolutely everything." [19:48]

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Discover More: To learn more about Nathan Chan and Founder Plus, visit founder.com. Dive into a wealth of resources tailored to help you start or grow your E-commerce business with expert guidance and a supportive community.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I was sued for trademark infringement. It wasn't called Founder. Magazine was originally called Key to Success. We had the Success logo and then Key to in the middle, but we had Neil Patel on the front cover and he covered the key to. You can guess who sued us. And I get this letter in the mail from Success magazine. They're suing me for trademark infringement.

[A]

All right, guys, Digital social hour. We got Nathan Chan here from Australia. I think you might be the first guest I've had from Australia, man.

[B]

Really? There you go.

[A]

Thanks for coming on. Thanks for representing us.

[B]

Represent.

[A]

I've been there, by the way.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What were you doing there?

[A]

Went with my mom, just on vacation. But I went to Sydney and Melbourne and got to pet a kangaroo.

[B]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

And eat one.

[B]

Oh, yeah. High source of protein.

[A]

It actually tasted pretty good.

[B]

It tastes like chicken.

[A]

Yeah. And there's a lot of them, so you. You kind of have to eat them out there because there's so many of them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

[A]

Do they just like pull up to your house there? How. How common are they? Are they like deer?

[B]

No, not as common as deer, but look like where I grew up in the suburbs, not like I'm from Melbourne, grew up in the suburbs and like we, we. There's like a, like a lot of nature, a lot of land where we are and like I can drive out, you know, close to my parents place and you can see them like a lot. But no, not that common.

[A]

They're pretty peaceful though, for the most part.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's funny you see all these memes online where people are like fighting and boxing with kangaroos and stuff. But yeah, now look, if you walk towards them, they'll jump.

[A]

That's funny, man. Were you always pretty entrepreneurial in Australia? Because it's not as advanced as the us, right?

[B]

No. So when I started Founder, I had absolutely no network. My mum was a nurse, my dad was a teacher. I didn't know anybody really that started a business or started an online business. I heard about stories from friends for friends of friends. But yeah, nah, man, like Australia is not like, look, we have companies like Canva, like Atlassian, Massive, Startups. But, like, it's. It's just not the same as America. Right? Like, the mindset, the mentality. We have something called Tall Poppy syndrome. Have you heard of that? No.

[A]

What is that?

[B]

Well, basically, it's where for whatever reason, culturally, you're often put down or looked down upon if you want to achieve, you want to do great things, you want to build something massive.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Something bigger than yourself. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, Tall Poppy syndrome.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's fascinating. So growing up, you were kind of ashamed to be an entrepreneur then?

[B]

Well, here's the thing, man. I used to, you know, just sell things at school. Like, you remember you could burn DVDs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sell PlayStation games. I used to do all sorts of things like that. But, yeah, look, I. I didn't think I'd become an entrepreneur. I just kind of fell into it.

[A]

I think it's something you're kind of born with and molded early on in your life.

[B]

Yeah, look, it depends. It depends. So, for me, I always was trying to get ahead. I was always like, you know, a bit of a hustler. But nah, man. Like, honestly, I. I never thought I'd be here. I. I started Founder purely from. I just wanted to do work I enjoy. Like, life is too short to not do work you don't enjoy. And look, I know you've had these experiences, like, you've had, you know, you used to be an E comm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Now you move to podcasting. You love it so much. Right? Like, so for me, I started Founder purely out of the desire to define work that I enjoy. Like, that's how it started. Like, I started to interview people. No one in my network, no one used to get back to me, and I was just having fun and I created this magazine and, like, what I found was, like, the stories that I like, because I started found it 10 years ago. What I found was the stories were so amazing, like, interviewing these people. I had to share it with the world. And I started to put out this magazine. Four months later, I got an interview with Richard Branson, and then the thing kind of spiraled. But, dude, I was taking Founder, the digital magazine, to job interviews. Like, really not thinking it was going to be something. So I just kind of fell into entrepreneurialism, fell into, like, entrepreneurship.

[A]

Wow. And it was one of the biggest, if not the biggest magazines in Australia, right?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Like, you know, the brand. We've got Forbes, Fast Company, Entrepreneur, you know, Inc Magazine, and Founder is like one of the top magazines in the space now. We're a Global leading brand. We're not as big as I'd like us to be. We're not as well known as I'd like us to be, but we're certainly getting there. Like, you know, if you. If you ask a founder, more times than not, someone would know the brand.

[A]

Right. It's definitely recognizable. You do well with the magazine covers. I can even physically visualize The Daymond John 1 and a few other ones.

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Hats off to you. So with Founder plus, is that the pivot away? Because I know the magazine space is hurting right now. Right.

[B]

Well, look, it got to a point where we just use the magazine as lead gen, right? Like, the magazine is awesome, so we just give it away for free. Right? It's like an incredible, incredible magazine that you get access over 100 editions now, all digitally, like through our platform. Just give it away for free. It's awesome. And then our. Yeah, our real focus is now building our membership site. Because what I found was I started to interview all these awesome founders like yourself, right? And. But we're really niche, focused on entrepreneurship, starting growing a business. And what happened was a lot of people started to ask in the community, hey, how can I learn more from this person? Hey, I love that this person talked about sales, but, like, I want to get more from it. Like, and so what I started to do was like, how could I get these people to teach? How could I get these really awesome founders that have actually done it to get them to teach on a platform? Because, yeah, the course base is massive now. Everyone's selling a course, it seems, right. And I thought, what if. What if I could go out and I could find these awesome founders that we're already speaking to, already interviewing, telling their story. We know that people love them. Perhaps they just want to focus on building their business instead of actually selling, like, courses and stuff like that. And what if we partner with them and get them to teach on our platform? So kind of like a masterclass for entrepreneurship and. Yeah, I launched that officially a couple of years ago, but really going all in there. Nice. Yeah, it's been a journey, man, but it's been awesome.

[A]

I love it, man. Yeah, I think you interviewed me for one of those. Right?

[B]

We interviewed you for one of our events about summits. Yeah, yeah. We go to a lot of lives.

[A]

Yeah, that was an AI event, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You were on the forefront of that too, which is great. It seems like you're very on top of things, on top of trends.

[B]

Oh, look, I like the only way you do this stuff and, and get ahead of trends is just spend time in the space, see where people are going, see what, what's moving. Like, you know, membership space is massive now. Like with school.

[A]

School's crushing it.

[B]

Yeah, school and hormozy. Like, it seems now that a lot of people that are selling online education digital products, they'll want to move to the membership model. I was working on that a couple years ago and it, it's not as easy as people think.

[A]

It's not. Payment processing's hard in that space. A lot of headaches. But if you could build up an mrr, it helps the company valuation a lot.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But for us, I started to set like for founder, we had single courses, right? And you know, Damon Johns taught a course. Or Joe Decina, the guy that he founded, he purchased Tough Mudder and he founded Spartan. Like just like really cool founders. We get them to teach, give back. And we were just doing single courses. But what we found was we were doing a disservice to our community, our customers. And a lot of people start asking once again, hey, I've bought like three or four of your programs. Why can't I get this in a subscription? And that's how it naturally happens. So it's, it wasn't for us. Like I wanted to create a membership. It started with, hey, how can we get these awesome founders, legit founders that are actually doing it, that, that actually like their business is building the thing that they're teaching. Like they're doing ecom or they're building an agency or building a SAS business. That's their thing. They're not going out and teaching and perhaps they want to give back and we have a platform where you can give back. And yeah, that, that started and we started to do single courses, then eventually got to a point where it's just like we have so many programs. Like, why not just package it up and turn into a membership that's purely focused? And that's, that's a transition in of itself, dude. Because so many people think, okay, you know the MRI play, all right, well I'm going to get. All I need is like a thousand people pay me a hundred bucks. Oh, that's awesome. Right now, making 100 grands a million dollar year. ARR, I can get a great value, great multiple on that. But people forget that just because someone buys or enrolls in your membership doesn't mean they're going to stick, right?

[A]

Drop off, man.

[B]

You have to really focus on the customer.

[A]

The churn. Yeah. I just had on a guest right before you. His name was Tyson. He's a sports bettor and his drop off is 10 to 15% which is really high. But he said in that sports betting space it's actually low.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Because sports betting is so volatile. So if you have a losing week, you could have 25% of people drop off right there.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How's that a business?

[A]

It's a tough business. That's why you need to focus on community which is what you've done. You've built up the social media channels. You build these community channels.

[B]

Yeah, look, community is key and I think we niche down as well. We just focus on ecom. So that allows us to really speak to a certain kind of person. I know a lot of people doing, you know, memberships that can often be quite broad. For us we're like focusing really on the niche of E comm. You want to start an E commerce business? You want to grow an E commerce business? You can learn from us like for 99amonth.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like it's 500 a year. It's like, like super cost affordable.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. It's like it's a no brainer. We would have spent millions of dollars producing like courses, programs, building out the.

[A]

Platform and I feel like E commerce it's, it's definitely hit its peak in the US but I feel like with other countries drop shipping is still really hot and upcoming.

[B]

Yeah, look, it depends, right? For us, believe it or not, our biggest, our biggest customer base is in the us.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Biggest.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because I thought drop shipping kind of hit its peak a few years ago.

[B]

Oh look, I, we for us when it comes to E commerce where we don't really teach drop shipping, we teach people to build a sustainable brand. It's like, it's like founder, right. We, you know, right. Like people teach people to build a brand. Like yeah, that like we, we're more about owning the customer, owning the relationship, building something that's a scalable asset and that, you know, drop shipping is very hit and miss. Get rich quick, use Facebook ads. It can work. Don't get wrong. It's a great, maybe a great starting place for people to understand products, understand product market feed, understand media buying. But yeah, no, our whole methodology and framework is building a brand, solving a problem, not just finding some product that you can just. It's trending.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Try day trade. Like that's not a business.

[A]

There's a Lot of that on social media. People teaching the get quick online stuff.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. So yeah, no, look for us at founder, we teach people how to actually build a long term sustainable business. It just comes back to the kind of founders we interview. Right? Dude, I've interviewed you. Were you probably the same as me? You probably interviewed over 100 billionaires, right?

[A]

Not billionaires. You've definitely got me beat on billionaires. Okay, I've interviewed maybe 10.

[B]

Yeah, okay. Because I, I interviewed tons of super like well known founders. If you don't know their, their company, you would know them. Like so they're all built sustainable businesses and it's kind of like our kind of ethos of like the word founder. Like if someone's into, if someone's drop shipping, are they a founder? Maybe, maybe not. Have they founded a company? Maybe, you know, they're more an Internet marketer. Right. Like you're an affiliate market.

[A]

It definitely should be treated as like a, a stepping stone. I started off with drop shipping, a lot of my friends did, but they're not doing that anymore.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. So it's a great place to learn. But for us, we just kind of, our ethos is around, you know, we interview founders, we have founders give back on our platform and we teach people how to found a company.

[A]

Yeah. What's your process for interviewing a billionaire? How long are you prepping and how does the interview go?

[B]

So I have a team that helps with the pre production. I, I go through like for us now, man, when it comes to the process, we really, we're really about the storytelling. Like, like and, and the more that we can get the guest to share the difficult stuff. Right. Like not enough people talk about how hard it is to build a business.

[A]

Being vulnerable.

[B]

Yes, yes. That's the stuff we're looking for. Right. So in terms of prep, I'd say I'd spend maybe an hour or two. And look, I, I fortunately have a team that helps. And yeah, I'm, I'm looking for the stories. I'm looking for the interesting, uniquely interesting stories or the, you know, the stuff where it, you don't hear people talk about like, you know, you've got an incredible network. You would hear crazy stories from founders, right, that you know, have been so close, losing millions, tens of millions of dollars like all times that you've almost thought about giving up. Because every single founder has gone through that, man. Like every single founder has got to a point where they're flying so close to the sun that they might lose it all. Right? But they don't. And in, you know, the question is, if you don't experience those moments, maybe you're not pushing hard enough.

[A]

You're living too comfortably. Right?

[B]

Exactly, man. Like, and that's what life's all about, right? It's like making a move.

[A]

Even myself now when I, I go through like couple month periods where I'm like, things are too easy right now. Let me like, go public speak at an event or something, like put myself in an uncomfortable situation.

[B]

Yeah, dude, you have to.

[A]

You gotta always be challenging yourself.

[B]

Well, look, when you're getting to reaching, like interviewing someone's a billionaire or multi millionaire, they've built something of true worth and significance. And to get there, you just have to have times of adversity. Right. You have to have battle scars. And that's what I want to hear, that's what we want to share. But if you don't do enough research, how are you going to know how you're going to pull that out? Because generally people aren't that vulnerable, right? Like, it depends on the person. But you do all the interviews all the time, man. Usually people are surface level, Right.

[A]

Especially a billionaire. They've been PR trained, you know, they're. They're taught to kind of suppress emotions for the most part in that level of business.

[B]

Yeah, man, you really have to push.

[A]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

You have to ask, you have to warm them up. It's. Yeah, it's not that easy.

[A]

Yeah, Damon was a good interview. Yeah, he got vulnerable when I interviewed him. Yeah. Shout out to Damon John.

[B]

Yeah, he's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, he was a good interview. I've had some challenging ones for sure, but those always make me a better host.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, sometimes when they're so closed off, it's like, okay, maybe I could have done better, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Look, it's an interesting one. Sometimes you find, like. Because I do ipsy interviews too, done for a long time, Right. Sometimes you find, is it the guest that carries the show or is it you? That show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, and, and it's your job as, as the host to really try and push and get the most out of that person and then also know. Know your audience too is what's going to be interesting for them.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You do well with the fact that. Because a lot of people can't relate to billionaires, but you do well with humanizing them, you know, providing stories that people can relate to about them. Sometimes they're so detached from the ordinary. Person.

[B]

Yeah. 100. But at the end of the day, man, like billionaires, they're still a human being. They're still like, they still have the same challenges that, that everybody has. They've just, you know, for the most part surround themselves with incredible people. Right. Like businesses are built by people like billionaires. Doesn't matter how smart you are, you have to have an incredible group of people around you and you have to be willing to have difficult conversations to move on those people as well and like move people around. Like, you have to be good with people, but you have to have great people around you. But you know, when you look at a billionaire, there's so many people behind them that has allowed them to get there. Right. And it's your job as the founder to find and identify and lead those people. Right. It is so key. It's not a sexy thing people talk about when it comes to building a business, but he's like absolutely everything, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Like I just met John. He just like, he seems like a really smart, super savvy dude that works with you, right? Like how did you meet John?

[A]

We just met last week. My friend told me he just moved here and was looking for a job.

[B]

There you go. It's crazy, right? But there was something that you identified.

[A]

I saw his struggle. He grew up in a rough environment and I actually like that because that builds character.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes when you're spoon fed too much, it's hard to really come out of that shell.

[B]

100%. So he's hungry.

[A]

He's hungry. I could sense it off him.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

Like he's doing stuff I'm not even telling him to do.

[B]

How good is that?

[A]

It's amazing. I woke up.

[B]

Leverage.

[A]

Yeah. I woke up to two Google Docs full of all this useful information this morning.

[B]

See, that's what I'm saying. So like you look at a billionaire, right? It's easy to look at that person and go, oh, how wow. It's so incredible. And it is incredible what they've been able to build. Right. But they're no different to Uri, right. They're no smarter than you or I. They just, they've had a ton of luck. Right. They've worked so hard. There's been so many times where they've flown close to the sun. Right. They, they've, they've got this ability to find great people to work with them 100%. Like that's so key, man.

[A]

I've seen Cuban talk about the luck stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz he even, he says Himself. He had a lot of luck to become a billionaire. The timing of his companies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And everything. And I know you've interviewed him too.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, businesses are built by people. It seems so simple, but so easy to forget. Everyone's looking for like the next tactic or hack or, you know, tick tock shop or like what, whatever it is. Right. But biggest hack I believe in business is just finding exceptional people and just like finding a way to keep them motivated to keep working with you and, you know, finding out what they want. And how can you align that with your business goals and just building a great company and culture where it's just like, like you said, like how cool is it that John's thinking? Right? Like, that give you so much leverage. How can you give, how can you find great people? You can just let them go and they go off and they build a part of your company for you. That's what you want, man.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's not easy to find.

[A]

Not easy. Most people want to follow instructions, do the bare minimum work, check out early.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's easy to do that, you know, Exactly. You know, as someone on a payroll job, why would I spend more time on something I don't have to? So I get the mindset.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

But entrepreneur mindset is kind of the opposite.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

That's the difference there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But incentivizing employees, that's. That's where I'm trying to figure out, you know, Cuz I'm not a fan of salaries, dude. I feel like people do the bare minimum just to collect the salary. And I get that. That's what I would do if I was in that position. So I need to think of better ways to incentivize people.

[B]

Yeah, well, look, it depends, right? It depends what your goals are. Right. Show me, show me the incentive. I'll show you the outcome. So how can you align your goals with the show, with this podcast, with this business to where you want to go? Where, where perhaps your team members want to go. How can you align that? And I can give them KPIs that recognizes and incentivizes and rewards what you're going after. But from my experience, like, it depends on the quality of the person. But good people know their worth too, right? They know their worth. And if they're commercially savvy enough, when you get to a certain like, level of talent that you're looking for, if they're, if they're commercially savvy enough to be in the position, they're in then they know their worth and they. It's hard to get people to work off just perhaps like a commission. Only you can. It depends. It's a great test. Shows how hungry somebody is. But oftentimes you know people that are super savvy commercial that can build businesses and they typically build other people's businesses that they know their worth in the market.

[A]

Absolutely. Where have you been sourcing your top talent?

[B]

Oh look, we've used recruiters in the past but I find one of the best ways is through the network like my network or my team's network friends that you know all the most game changing hires that I've made majority of them have been through my network.

[A]

A warm referral.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. Like you just it's really tough for job boards and finding people that way.

[A]

I found it's a needle in a haystack. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Because oftentimes why people looking at a job board a players they don't like. A players don't have to look for a job. People keep finding them.

[A]

It's like dating apps. It's like the hottest girls aren't on the apps. They don't need to be on the dating apps.

[B]

Correct. 100.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

It's the same thing. You want to find a players oftentimes a place don't have to look for a job man. The next job finds them.

[A]

That makes sense because if you're that good, people are going to be approaching you.

[B]

Correct. And that's what I was saying before. Like if you're that good, you're commercially savvy, you know your worth. Right. So you take a certain kind of deal to not have base but you can structure, you know, maximum upside on both sides.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And minimizing downside. There's always, always different ways to structure things.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. Warm referrals. So I have a WhatsApp shot of all the previous podcast guests.

[B]

John, just gonna add me. It sounds awesome.

[A]

Yeah. But like you were saying, a lot of people post like their friends looking for a job in there and they're like a great person and they get hired within a few hours.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

So yeah, I definitely agree. A warm, warm intro because the trust is there. You trust this person. They've worked with them in the past. They produce these results. Yeah, I'll hire you.

[B]

Yeah. 100. And the thing is, right sometimes with recruiters, what's cool, there's pros and cons. People don't necessarily always like recruiters but the, but the pro is there's a lot of work in finding that high quality person. And yeah, it would be powerful for me as me as the founder, you know, tap someone on the shoulder through LinkedIn. But you've got to sift, you've got to look through it all and then you know, the recruiter, they're the head hunting, like they're looking for somebody that's done it before. That's the key as well. Like, you know, I've always heard that Jeff Bezos, when he goes to enter a new market, he go, he, he taught, he poaches the top executives from that market.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

For like the top, like executives at the competitor, he poaches them in that market and then gets them, plugs them into his entry business. Right. And there's, there's a lesson in that, Right. Like how much easier it is it for someone to succeed in your business if they've already done it before. Right. Like, how cool would it be if you got the Joe Rogan's producer, Jamie, like you got, you got one of many of his producers to come work for you. How much faster you gonna grow Way faster. Exactly. And that's the key, right. How can you find people that have done it before? How can you find somebody that has seen the movie, seen the movie before? Biggest hack, man.

[A]

Yeah. It reminds me of Dan Martell buying your time back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because you're hiring these people that have spent X amount of years for a new venture. So you're saving all those years.

[B]

Yeah, man. He's a super smart guy. He's blowing up right now.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And that's where content comes into play. Which you were early on. Content. I remember seeing your content when I was just becoming an entrepreneur in college, like eight, nine years ago.

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

What gave you that conviction so early on and get into content?

[B]

Oh, well, look, I bootstrapped founder, never raised any money. And I found that it was really powerful how you could take one piece of content and turn it into like 30 pieces of content. And I'm big fan of leverage, so that's what I used to do, man. Like, I started, I started with the magazine, right. Digital magazine, started interviewing successful founders, sharing their stories. And then I, what I realized is like, well, I could have way more distribution if I took this interview and turned into a podcast, turned it into clips, turned it into an article, turned it into a newsletter, turned it into a tweet, turned into an Instagram quote, like, like, like, you know, 101 things, you just get more distribution. You get, you. You sweat the asset more. Right. Because every single interview that you're doing, that's an asset where the content goes out you. And it's like you're planting a seed, like I'm sure. And we see this. Like you would have some guests that do really, really well that are super viral, but it's probably only a small percentage. Right? But you're planting all these different assets out there. Some will hit, some will miss, but eventually you'll find some that work and that amplifies your distribution, amplifies your reach. Right? So that's how I kind of worked it out. I was like, okay, well how can I just leverage that interview? And I knew as well that there's so much power in having a magazine, dude. So much power, so much influence.

[A]

Everyone wants to be on the COVID of magazine.

[B]

Exactly. But then also, for whatever reason, when you have these super successful people on the front covers of your magazine, it builds trust by association. And that's what's built the brand, trust by association. These guys are effectively ambassadors for our brand. So then people know the brand. It's a great name to.

[A]

Great name.

[B]

Founder without the A. Like we own the word for founder and that's synonymous amongst entrepreneurship with the E or without the A. Do you listen to Founder? Do you read Founder? Do you watch Founder? Are you a member of Founder?

[A]

Like, yeah, such a simple name that it's like perfect, right?

[B]

Yeah. But dude, here's a good story you want to start. So when I first started Founder, I was sued for trademark infringement.

[A]

Really?

[B]

First three months of starting, someone trademarked it, so it wasn't called Founder. So the magazine was originally called Key to Success and I had Neil Patel on the front cover on, I think it was the third edition. And we had the Success logo and then Key two in the middle, but we had Neil Patel on the front cover and he covered the key to. So you can, you can guess who sued us. And dude, I was working in my day job that like, no money whatsoever. This was like a little side hobby I didn't know was going to go like, be found and be where it is, right? And I get this letter in the mail, FedEx package from success magazine that they're suing me for trademark infringement. And like, dude, I didn't have the money, right? Like, and I was scared. Like, your first business, imagine your first business, the first three months you get served a FedEx package by this big company in the United States that you need to Appear in Dallas, Texas.

[A]

Geez.

[B]

And yeah, man, I just changed the name. Sorted all that out by changing the name. I called a founder.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[A]

So that lawsuit helped you?

[B]

Yeah, dude, that was a blessing in disguise.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because man, like would have had this name key to success. It's pretty shitty now.

[A]

It's not as good as founder.

[B]

No, no. I love one word names. Like you think of all the top brands, like all the well known brands. Very, very rarely in multiple words. Usually always one word.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Away suitcases, Google, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat. Snapchat's maybe, but snap, you know, snap. Like, yeah, most brands are one word. Ideally no more than five letters. Yeah.

[A]

I wonder if there's some psychological thing to that.

[B]

Not sure. I don't know, man. I think it's just cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just flows, you know.

[A]

Why would you want to say a long word?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it just seems that way. Like, I mean, Chanel, like, you know, I mean, like, I don't know why, but what. And what do all these names mean? Like, that's, that's the thing as well, right? There's random names and they've become that brand because it's been built.

[A]

What did you think of Facebook and Twitter changing their names?

[B]

Oh, look, I'm no branding expert, man, but like, for some reason, look, the, the Facebook one, it's still branded like Facebook. It's not meta. Like you, when you log in, you don't go to meta.com. right. Like it's so, so it's just the parent, you know. So I think Facebook was less of a bigger deal when, when Twitter changed to X. I personally thought it wasn't the smartest move because there's just so much, just so much brand recognition built in. Twitter, like X is cool though. But it's just gonna take a lot of work to build it back up. But everyone knows the platform anyways. But I don't know why they needed to.

[A]

Yeah, I was.

[B]

Did they need to?

[A]

They kind of, kind of just followed Facebook suit. I feel like the timing was weird.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I, I've heard that Elon Musk always owned that domain.

[A]

Oh, x dot com.

[B]

Yeah. Apparently he's owned it for a long time.

[A]

Maybe just wanted to find a yes.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think so. I think that's what that was. But look, that guy's so smart. Like he's making so many moves so far ahead of the curve. Who Knows.

[A]

Is he a dream interview for you? Yeah, he's on my list too.

[B]

Yeah. For sure.

[A]

I made a manifestation list when I started the podcast. I'm sure you did something similar, right?

[B]

That's so cool, dude. You got to do that.

[A]

I've been crossing off names every. Every month. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to do that. There's something special about that. I did that too. And I made a top 50 list and I've. I've gone through most of them. Yeah. The. The only. The well known founders I haven't interviewed is, is Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk.

[A]

And they're all within reach.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're able to leverage all your prior guests now, so 100%. You're one degree away from them, probably.

[B]

100. Yeah. We will get there eventually.

[A]

Yeah. That's how I see the podcast too. You're just building up such a massive community now. I'm like one or two degrees away from anyone I want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is insane.

[B]

Yeah. Look, there's something very, very special doing it in person. I. I'm based in Australia. I have to a lot of them remotely. When you can do them in person, I think it's so much stronger for building network, building relationship, building rapport, being able to connect with that person on a deeper level, I think. Yeah, that's. That there's. There's a lot of magic.

[A]

Yeah. You get a glimpse into their life because you could see their office, you could see what they're doing on a daily basis. You meet their team. It's just way better. I've only done one virtual one or maybe two, and because they were banned from the U.S. yep.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I couldn't do it here.

[B]

Well, who's that?

[A]

It was this guy named Santos Bonacci. And then there was another guy, he just recently passed away, but his name was Tom Palladino.

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm like, even with Andrew Tate because I'm interviewing him. I'm gonna fly to Romania.

[B]

Oh, awesome. Yeah, that would be a fun adventure.

[A]

It's way better. Yeah, it'll be awesome. But I him over zoom. It just wouldn't hit the same.

[B]

There you go. I. I've seen anybody that interviews him. His interviews really pop off. Yeah.

[A]

Guaranteed a million views. Pretty much.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Certain people are just like that. They got a really captivating audience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've been studying all the top content creators and a lot of what I'm noticing is the delivery of the message, the editing plays a big role, of course, but if they're just confident with the delivery, borderline arrogant. That's like a formula to go viral because I've had on a thousand guests now and I see which ones go viral.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah, it's the conviction in what they're communicating, right?

[A]

Yeah, because Grant Cardone, there's a ton of billionaires, but his conviction is just so powerful. He goes viral every time.

[B]

It's also the look, how controversial. Like, I, I've seen some of your, some of your clips and you know, like the, like the guy that's drinking his own urine, like, dude, that's hardcore, man. And then he, like, he's put on his face and stuff. Like, like, man, he's like, people are going to share that, you know, I mean, like for good, bad or otherwise. Right? Like, I, you know, I'm not, not here to throw shade, but that was out there, right? Like, you know, you know, you don't see that in your regular feed.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I think I might have been the first to break that one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but you know what I mean, right? You're laughing now, right? Like, this is crazy.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know you're gonna bring up that one. That's, that's a funny one though.

[B]

It was crazy. Like, I saw that clip. I saw that clip. So like, so, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how, like, how much conviction that guy. But like, like, that's just wild.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, there's that, there's that line in social media where how degenerate do you want to be for views? Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't want to base my whole brand off that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's a never ending loop. And then you go crazy if you're just relying on, like doing the craziest things you could think of.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but look, it's all about the hook.

[A]

The hook for sure. Yeah. The hook is the first three seconds. If it's not interesting, I'm gone.

[B]

Yeah. And tick tock trained that into people now.

[A]

Yep. YouTube views are down. I'm talking to so many YouTubers. They're down like 60.

[B]

Really?

[A]

On average. Because shorts are just destroying attention spans, man. Have you noticed a dip in your, your podcast listeners?

[B]

Yeah, we noticed a dip, but only because some apple changes and stuff like that. Did you see that?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm down on audio, but even like just the YouTube long form is down too. Yours aren't down.

[B]

Oh, we've Been on a journey with YouTube, man. Journey. Going up and down. Up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, it's saturated now too.

[B]

Yeah, it's a hard platform to conquer. We're. We're starting to work it out now.

[A]

But it's going again, honestly the hardest because you could go viral on Instagram and TikTok with no followers.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

But YouTube, I don't see it that often.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough, it's tough. There's a lot of interview shows now as well.

[A]

Yeah, tons of shows. I mean, when I look at the charts, because I study all the top shows, it's just like new shows constantly are in the charts. Yeah, like the Hawk to a Girl is in the top five right now. She just started last week.

[B]

Yeah, I saw that. That's crazy.

[A]

Crazy, right? Did that make its way to Australia, that video?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it did.

[A]

Wow. Everywhere, she was a worldwide phenomenon.

[B]

Dude. Dude. Australian subculture is, is very similar to the us like we're always dialed in on what you guys.

[A]

I figured that. Yeah, I hear that a lot about like countries that kind of follow our lead. So Canada, United Kingdom, Australia. They see what's going on here and then they'll. A couple months later, it'll trend over there.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

Yeah. You think you'd ever get a second spot out here in the US for business?

[B]

We had an office in New York.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

Yeah, we had an office in a studio and then I shut it down over covert.

[A]

Oh yeah, it was way too expensive.

[B]

Yeah, we weren't using it like cuz lockdowns were crazy.

[A]

Oh, they were bad.

[B]

Yeah. And then look, we. We'll get it back up and going eventually.

[A]

Nice. That'd be cool to have like a. I actually am looking for a studio in New York. Yeah, I gotta film with a couple people out there. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's awesome. So yeah. You're gonna base out of there?

[A]

Well, I film once a month in a new city now because not everyone comes to Vegas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I've been filming a lot in la, Texas, Miami. Those are like hot cities. But it's been hard to find a spot in New York to film up. Surprisingly. I filmed with Ryan Sirhant, but I had to go to his office. But I can't really find a good studio out there.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Interesting look for us. We went to a place called. What was it called? I forget now off the top of my head, but it was a decent space and you just build it out yourself.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[B]

You had to build it out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was like a warehouse base.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Just send me the link after this.

[B]

Industry City.

[A]

Industry City.

[B]

It was in Brooklyn.

[A]

Brooklyn, okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we're in Brooklyn.

[A]

I'll check it out.

[B]

Industry City. It was really cool.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then you can just customize the space.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot of good guys in New York I want to hit. Yeah, yeah. Gary B. Is out there. I think Barstool sports, they got some guys out there and a lot of Yankees and Knicks players, so.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's the good thing about the US man. You could go to any city, any major city and get like 10 interviews in.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Yeah. You'll never run out of people here. I mean, like I was telling you off camera, I filmed 1200 interviews and two years.

[B]

That's insane.

[A]

In the U.S. yeah, I'm. I'm catching up to you, man.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

How many have you done, dude?

[B]

I don't. I think I've just tipped over a thousand.

[A]

Yeah, you got to be up there.

[B]

I think, I think. Yeah.

[A]

Cuz you've been doing 10 years, so. Yeah, that's a lot, man. Well, it's been an honor. It's finally great to meet you in person, man. We've been talking for a while. Where could people find out about Founder plus and what else you have coming on?

[B]

Yeah, you just go to founder.com founder.com want to learn how to start or grow an E commerce business, so we'd love to support you on the journey. We put out a lot of content around business and entrepreneurship.

[A]

Perfect. We'll link it below. Thanks for coming on. Nathan, welcome. Thanks for watching, guys. As always, check out the links below. See you next time. Hey, music fans. There are some great concerts headed this way. Don't miss out on all the shows in your favorite venues like Deftones at Madison Square Garden, Eagles at the Sphere, and Foster the People at the Ryman Auditorium. Tickets are going fast, so don't wait. Head to livenation.com to get your tickets. Now that's livenation.com.