Why Economic Inequality Hurts Your Business Growth | Marianne Williamson DSH #1135

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Why Economic Inequality Hurts Your Business Growth | Marianne Williamson | DSH #1135

Release Date: January 22, 2025

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Marianne Williamson

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Introduction

In episode #1135 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a profound and candid conversation with Marianne Williamson, a renowned author, spiritual leader, and political activist who recently announced her candidacy for Chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC). The discussion delves deep into the intricate web of economic inequality, its ramifications on business growth, and the broader societal implications. Skipping the customary advertisements, the episode zeroes in on unfiltered insights, personal anecdotes, and actionable solutions aimed at reshaping the American socio-economic landscape.

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Economic Inequality: The Core Issue

Marianne Williamson begins by emphasizing the pervasive sense of unmet hope within society. She asserts, “There’s tremendous yearning for hope and possibility” (00:30), advocating for the Democratic Party to pivot its focus from historical grievances to contemporary challenges faced by everyday Americans, such as the prohibitive costs of marriage and child-rearing.

The Shift from People-Centric to Profit-Centric Economy

Williamson critiques the evolution of Western economic systems, tracing the roots back to the Industrial Revolution's "mesmerization" with external achievements. She laments, “We have shifted from a recognition that an economy is here to serve the people to a place where we act as though people live their lives in order to serve an economy” (02:30). This shift, she argues, has fostered a "corporatist mentality" prioritizing short-term profits over ethical considerations and human welfare.

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Taxation and Wealth Redistribution

The conversation transitions to taxation, where Williamson advocates for a progressive tax system. She states, “I don’t have a problem saying to somebody with multi tens of millions in the bank, give a little more” (17:20). Addressing common counterarguments, she suggests closing tax loopholes to ensure the ultra-wealthy contribute their fair share without significantly impacting their daily lives.

Combatting Tax Evasion and Corporate Greed

Williamson underscores the detrimental impact of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision, which, according to her, allows “dark money” to exert undue influence on politics (08:57). She highlights the disparity in CEO-to-worker pay ratios, noting that “the average CEO makes 400 times more than the average worker” (16:26), and points to the recent tax cuts benefiting the richest Americans as exacerbating wealth inequality.

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Universal Healthcare: A Moral Imperative

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the American healthcare system. Williamson contrasts the U.S. with other advanced nations, asserting, “Every advanced nation of the world, except for us, they have universal health care” (20:25). She shares a personal anecdote about her daughter’s childbirth in London, highlighting the psychological and financial relief universal healthcare provides compared to the U.S. model.

The Crisis of Underinsurance

Highlighting alarming statistics, Williamson reveals that “over 62% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck” (16:19) and discusses the plight of the underinsured, where “for 18 million of them, their insurance will not cover the prescription drugs that the doctor says they need” (20:25). She calls for a systemic overhaul to ensure healthcare is a right, not a privilege tied to employment or financial status.

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Education and Cultural Preservation

The conversation shifts to education, where Williamson criticizes the decentralization that allows states to dictate educational standards, leading to inconsistent and often inadequate teaching of American history. She stresses the importance of teaching comprehensive history to prevent the repetition of past atrocities, stating, “We need to be responsible American adults, for us to understand that and then to look at the rest of what is going on in America informed by facts from the past” (29:12).

The Battle Over Curriculum and Book Bans

Williamson vehemently opposes book bans, citing attempts to prohibit classics like To Kill a Mockingbird and The Grapes of Wrath due to their content. She emphasizes the necessity of confronting uncomfortable truths to foster a well-informed and empathetic populace: “Some of the most important conversations are not comfortable. It’s part of being an adult” (30:30).

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Climate Change and Government Responsibility

Addressing environmental issues, Williamson critiques governmental responses to climate-induced disasters. She discusses the recent fire incidents under Governor Gavin Newsom, attributing failures to insufficient government budgeting for fire prevention and a lack of proactive measures against fossil fuel extraction: “There has been… severe irresponsibility” (46:51).

Building Regulations and Future Preparedness

Looking forward, Williamson anticipates stricter building regulations and enhanced fire prevention strategies. She advocates for a holistic approach that integrates ethical considerations with practical solutions to mitigate the devastating impacts of climate change: “In the rebuilding, there is a lot to look at in terms of building materials” (47:40).

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Political Landscape and Democratic Party Vision

As the conversation nears its conclusion, Williamson elaborates on her vision for the Democratic Party. She highlights the necessity for the party to evolve beyond old paradigms, embracing a future-focused agenda that addresses the pressing needs of ordinary Americans. “The Democratic Party needs to throw out the old playbook and start over a much higher ground” (25:23).

Engaging the Disenfranchised and Rebuilding Trust

Williamson stresses the importance of reconnecting with voters who feel neglected, sharing poignant stories of individuals struggling under current economic policies. She emphasizes empathy and actionable support: “I want that man to know that we do have his back” (42:25). Her goal is to foster a Democratic Party that champions universal possibility and collective mission over partisan divisions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Marianne Williamson: “There’s tremendous yearning for hope and possibility.” (00:30)
• Williamson on Corporate Greed: “We have shifted from a recognition that an economy is here to serve the people...” (02:30)
• On Taxation: “I don’t have a problem saying to somebody with multi tens of millions in the bank, give a little more.” (17:20)
• Healthcare Comparison: “Every advanced nation of the world, except for us, they have universal health care.” (20:25)
• On Education: “We need to be responsible American adults... informed by facts from the past.” (29:12)
• Climate Change Responsibility: “There has been… severe irresponsibility.” (46:51)
• Democratic Vision: “The Democratic Party needs to throw out the old playbook and start over a much higher ground.” (25:23)
• Rebuilding Trust: “I want that man to know that we do have his back.” (42:25)

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Conclusion

Sean Kelly's dialogue with Marianne Williamson serves as a clarion call to address the multifaceted issue of economic inequality and its profound impact on both businesses and everyday Americans. Williamson's insights underscore the urgent need for systemic reforms in taxation, healthcare, education, and environmental policies to create a more equitable and sustainable society. As Williamson aims for the DNC chair, her vision encapsulates a Democratic Party reimagined—one that prioritizes ethical governance, universal healthcare, fair taxation, and comprehensive education, ultimately fostering a nation where economic growth and human prosperity coexist harmoniously.

For more insights and to support Marianne Williamson’s campaign for DNC Chair, visit marianne4dnc.com.

Transcript

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[Marianne Williamson]

There's tremendous yearning for hope and possibility. I mean, what should the Democratic Party be thinking about right now? The Democratic Party should not be thinking about the past. The Democratic Party should be thinking about people like you who are about to get married, who want to have children, and the cost is so prohibitive. That's where our attention should be, and that's where it will be if I win the chair of the dnc.

[Podcast Host]

All right, guys, Marianne Williamson is back. It's been a while, and she just announced she's running for DNC chair. Thanks for coming back.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you. Thank you for having me. And welcome to Washington, dc.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's only my second time here, but I'm taking it all in.

[Marianne Williamson]

So did you do the sightseeing stuff? Did you do that when you were a child?

[Podcast Host]

No, I've just been filming. You know, I come out here to film.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, those monuments are moving.

[Podcast Host]

Which one would you recommend?

[Marianne Williamson]

All of them, really. See the Lincoln, See the World War II, see the Jefferson, see the MLK, see the Roosevelt. If you can see the White House, I mean, it's Washington. It reminds you of that, which is eternally true.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. History is important. Right. I just had on an ancient coin person on the podcast, and he was showing me all these coins.

[Marianne Williamson]

Oh, wow.

[Podcast Host]

And it was really cool to touch it and feel the coins.

[Marianne Williamson]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. There's something about just holding it or being in that historic location.

[Marianne Williamson]

You.

[Podcast Host]

You feel it within you. Right.

[Marianne Williamson]

I think sometimes we. I suppose most generations do that, but we sort of think we're the first ones to figure anything out. And I think that historically, this will be looked back on as a time, a level of Dark Ages in many ways, in terms of our having forgotten those things which are most true. I think that we're coming out of that phase now. I think we can come out of that phase, and that's what the sort of collective yearning is but we don't have everything figured out. And sometimes it's looking back where we see some of the greatest wisdom, find some of the greatest wisdom.

[Podcast Host]

Dark ages, when do you think that sort of started?

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, you know, as soon as the Industrial Revolution started revving up in Britain in the late 1800s, then came here and that began a mesmerization of the Western mind with all things external. And that turned in of course it had some positive Results of the 20th century Technology, scientific revolution, industrial revolution. I mean, this is not in any way to take away from some of the progress has been made. But as many artists and philosophers at that time here in the United States, Walt Whitman, the transcendentalists and people in Great Britain were trying to sound the alarm that this is a bad idea. What's happening here? We are focusing so much on the outer life that we are going to reach a profound imbalance. And what they warned us about is exactly what happened. There's been so much focus on what's happening outside us that some of our internal musculature has withered away. Concentration on ethics, concentration on character, concentration on doing the right thing by people. And of course the extreme example of this is this kind of corporatist mentality whereby we have shifted from a recognition that an economy is here to serve the people to a place where we act as though people live their lives in order to serve an economy. And corporatism of course, which places short term corporate profits before people and planet. And you know, you don't feed a child because it's going to make money. You feed a child because it's the right thing to do. Not everything should be based on financial gain for someone. And that is one of the results of this disconnection from the soul, disconnection from the most important aspects of humanity that have come about in this period. So it's. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everything that's happened in the last 150 years has been a bad thing, because it's not. It's just that I think we are realizing now there has been a profound imbalance and it's time now to correct that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's such a good point though, because people are chasing money these days more than ever.

[Marianne Williamson]

Chasing what money? Well, there are two things about that. Some people are chasing money because I think you and I would agree that there's a greed factor there and a. But some people are chasing money simply because they have been forced into a survival mode by an unjust economic system. So I can't blame a single mother of two for chasing money if in fact, if she doesn't chase the money, she might not be able to pay her rent or feed her children.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it makes sense. It's two things. Yeah, there are that. That greed though is what I'm talking about. That capitalism.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yes. And unfortunately it is now enabled by the US government. So the problem we have is the government should be if you have a.

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[Marianne Williamson]

In always if starting.

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[Marianne Williamson]

At all times. An advocate for the people. Now, to some extent, of course, that should mean supporting a healthy economy. But a healthy economy is a win win economy. A healthy economy is not one in which a few are constantly given more capacity to gain at the expense of the many who are struggling to survive. So that's the problem we have, is that greed is, is too often in too many ways systemically enabled at this time.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think the large companies in each industry have gotten too powerful?

[Marianne Williamson]

It's almost like a joke that somebody's doing. I can't believe you know, duh. Yeah. Yes, sir. And they are called, let us name them, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, big food companies, big chemical companies, big agricultural companies, gun manufacturers, big oil and defense contractors. And then you add to that financial institutions, big banks, and in certain cases, big tech companies as well.

[Podcast Host]

I wonder what the fix for that would be though.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, one of the worst problems was when the Supreme Court passed Citizens United, the Supreme Court had already said that money was free speech. That was bad enough. But with Citizens United, unlimited power was given to money forces called dark money to unduly influence our political political system and in ways that sometimes we don't even know who they are because nothing has to be registered. So the undue influence of money on our political system is the cancer that underlies all the other cancers.

[Podcast Host]

Right. So that being said, are you excited for Doge to optimize some of this government spend?

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, we don't know that that's what they're going to do. And they've never said that they were going to do what you and I were just talking about. What they have said is that they want to save some money. And listen, everybody knows that there's a lot of fat that needs to be cut off. But a lot of what they're talking about I feel would cut into the Bone. When they talk about efficiency, we all want the government to be more efficient. Nobody wants the government to be wasting money. Everybody wants more efficiency. There's no doubt about that. But efficiency should not be our highest goal. Auschwitz was efficient. I want things to be good. I want things to be humanitarian. I want children to be fed and educated. I want every American who works for. Works hard and works an honest day's labor to be able to work with dignity and with safety and to be able to live on the money that they earn and to support a family. I want people to have universal health care. So this, to me, goodness and ethics and humanitarian values and democratic values are what we should all be excited about generation after generation, no matter who's in power.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Times have changed. My grandparents grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania.

[Marianne Williamson]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

And my grandfather worked the. He was able to make a living off that back then.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Without his wife even working. My grandmother, she just cooked and stuff. That's not possible anymore.

[Marianne Williamson]

Okay, so I have two things to say about that. First of all, and that's to be very clear about, first of all, what years was that?

[Podcast Host]

They both passed, but they would probably be 90 today. So maybe 60, 70 years ago.

[Marianne Williamson]

Okay, you said 60s, 70s.

[Podcast Host]

You said 60s 70 years ago. So, yeah, about 60s.

[Marianne Williamson]

Right. So once the big banks and the big ag. Probably when your grandfather owned his farm, probably he was dealing with a local banker. And if he didn't have a good year, if he didn't have a good yield, he'd go to the banker and say, hey, it wasn't such a good year. And the banker would say, that's okay, you'll pay us next year. But then what started happening in the 80s was that that small bank would be gobbled up by the big banks. And so your grandfather would have gone to the banker to say, I didn't have a good year. I need some help. And that banker doesn't know your grandfather. And he says, well, maybe you better sell off to one of those big agricultural concerns. Wink, wink. Everything became go big or go home. And then farmers have to work for people who've never even walked their land. And then there was so much destructiveness that came into that monocropping, the way the land itself would be treated so that farmers who had been told by their fathers and their grandfathers how to treat the land with reverence, with respect for the land, for food and so forth, so much got just thrown out of harmony. And the other thing I just wanna say, as a woman, I just do Wanna add that your grandmother did more than just quote, unquote, cooking stuff.

[Podcast Host]

My bad.

[Marianne Williamson]

I'm sure that what she was doing, raising children, including your father. Right. And holding five children was more than just cooking stuff. I'm sure you know that. But just wann make sure to the language matters. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

What I meant was like she didn't work like a.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yes, no, I understand. It's an important point you were making in terms of.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. But now I feel like I don't see that anymore where like.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, that's. Of course you don't. Because in the 1970s, the average. We had a thriving middle class.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

And farming was part of that. So in those days, an average American couple could afford to own a house. Today, the average American couple sees that in too many instances as an almost unattainable goal for this lifetime. The way they see it. And so like your grandparents, that couple could own a house, could raise children. They raised five children. And could take a yearly vacation and could send their kids to school. We have seen over the last 50 years a $50 trillion transfer of wealth into the hands of 1% of Americans.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Marianne Williamson]

Through an absurd tax change. And we're going to see more of that, actually, because the President elect wants to extend his 2017 tax cut. 80, 83 cents of every dollar went to the richest Americans, the richest corporations, and it's already determined that that will add $4 trillion over the next 10 years to our national debt. So this idea that. So you've got Musk and Ramaswamy saying we're going to cut from the debt, but then you have Trump wanting to extend the tax cuts that are going to add 4 trillion more. Lot of smokes and mirrors. Welcome to Washington DC.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I just getting acquainted. H1B visa stuff was interesting to see play out.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Because that kind of a lot of internal battle there actually, which I think is good.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah. I mean, I actually hear Musk on some of that.

[Podcast Host]

You do?

[Marianne Williamson]

I do I side more with him on that? Well, I think. Well, it's a complicated issue, however. Yeah. I mean, I think if somebody comes here from another country. Let's look at what's been happening. We get these kids who come here and they get the best of an American higher education and then we tell them they have to go home. And so then they go home in many cases, particularly to countries like India. And they say, okay, I'm gonna take the education that I got from you in America and I'm gonna screw you economically. So act because they Take that. That contributes to their being able to be successful entrepreneurs in the countries they came from, which ultimately hurts the American worker. So you're not siding with the American worker in that case? Not really.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

And also they give something like 200,000. We're talking about 65,000 of those visas. And there is a regulation there that this cannot be given in a case where a native born American has equal qualifications for the job and it cannot be given any less money. So there's a lot of ruse behind that issue and it's being used as.

[Podcast Host]

A. Yeah, yeah, it got super hyped up. What do you think of Trump announcing possibilities of the External Revenue Service? Did you see that?

[Marianne Williamson]

No. Tell me about that.

[Podcast Host]

He tweeted out he wants to launch an External Revenue Service.

[Marianne Williamson]

What does that even mean? When was that?

[Podcast Host]

It was a few days ago. We'll find out what that means, but.

[Marianne Williamson]

Unless it is meaningless, I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

Well, you know how pro tariff he is. So yes, he wants to. I don't know if it's him, but there's people that are saying they want to eliminate income tax.

[Marianne Williamson]

Right, Right.

[Podcast Host]

So we'll see what happens.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, I'm sure it's the oligarchy's wet dream.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

But I don't know what the External Revenue Service means.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'd have to look more into that. But you got a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck. It's pretty crazy when you see the numbers.

[Marianne Williamson]

We have over 62% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy. 62%. Was it always that high in the past?

[Marianne Williamson]

Oh my, no, absolutely not. Like I said, in the 1970s there was a thriving middle class. We now have four. We have the average, you know, because it's all about income inequality that's been created. So now the average CEO makes 400 times more than the average worker in their company. And back in the 70s, it was tiny compared to that.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Yeah. Some of these salaries are pretty insane.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah. That's why when politicians talk today about serving the middle class, the conversation we have to have is how many people are struggling to call themselves middle class.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because at this rate, there, there won't be any middle class if we keep going like this, Right?

[Marianne Williamson]

No.

[Podcast Host]

And I grew up middle class, so I could definitely relate.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah. So for all they talk about, they're going to help the little guy. That's not what they're here to do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we got to figure out something. I don't know if taxing the rich more is the right way though, why not?

[Marianne Williamson]

Why shouldn't.

[Podcast Host]

Because there's loopholes.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, you close those loopholes. So first of all, the very, very rich. If someone has $10 million in the bank. I'm sorry, I don't have a problem with a little bit more taxation. A wealth tax, for instance. $50 million in the bank and you're gonna pay an additional 2%. I'm sorry, this won't affect your day. Yeah, it will not affect your day. And if you have a billion and there's an added 1%, this would not affect your grandchildren's day. And as far as loopholes are concerned, you know, the Democrats wanted to hire more IRS agents to be able to.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, 87,000.

[Marianne Williamson]

Exactly. And the Republicans fought it because the Republicans didn't want the US Government to, to track down all these. All these people who are basically, why should we be enabling that? Why should we be enabling that kind of white collar theft? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Podcast Host]

Well, all the richest people know the loopholes. I mean, Amazon paid zero in taxes.

[Marianne Williamson]

Exactly. So why is it so Amazon pays. And yet Jeff Bezos paid what, a million dollars to the inaugural committee?

[Podcast Host]

Donated.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah, they all did. Millions to the inaugural committee. No, this new administration has just opened the door. They just. See, this is the way I look at it. First of all, we want to stand for healthy wealth creation. Healthy wealth creation is a good thing. That is part of the American dream. But you should not want to make money at the expense of other people getting a chance to. That's all. To me, the American dream means everybody, if they work hard enough, should have a shot. Just have a shot. But if people don't have health care, the moral problem we have here is how many people are shut out of the game before they're even 10 years old. So the problem is how many people are shut out of the game before they even reach puberty. For instance, we have millions of American children who go to schools where they don't even have the resources to teach them how to read. And if a child cannot learn how to read by the age of 10, the chances of high school graduation are drastically reduced and the chances of incarceration are drastically increased. When you have people having to work two and three jobs just to make it, when you have people who work as so many Americans do it, jobs that they basically hate, but they have to do it just to get the healthcare benefits. When you have 70 to 90 million Americans underinsured or uninsured, These people are locked in. These are internal shackles. These are not external chains. They are internal chains and they are based on an unjust economic system. No, I don't have a problem saying to somebody with multi tens of millions in the bank, give a little more. And there are a lot of very wealthy people, including billionaires, who agree with that. Not every rich person in America is a greedy bastard at all.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we gotta be careful of generalizing, right?

[Marianne Williamson]

No, and that's not what we're. You know, none of this should be personalized.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Wow. 70 to 90 million underinsured or not insured. I did not know that.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yes. So what you're talking about is the millions of Americans who have the insurance to go to the doctor. What their insurance will not cover is the tests that the doctor says that they need or the operation that the doctor says that they need. And for 18 million of them, their insurance will not cover the prescription drugs that the doctor says they need. I've had doctors say to me, I don't even know why I bother practicing medicine anymore. The doctors are horrified by this. One doctor was saying to me, if it was 25 years ago, and I said, you need this particular treatment, the question that I would get asked by a patient was, what are the side effects? Now, more often than not, the question is, what would it cost? Because once again, the insurance paid for that visit to the doctor. But once the doctor gives you a treatment plan or says, I need this test or that test, no can do.

[Podcast Host]

Starts adding up.

[Marianne Williamson]

That's called underinsured.

[Podcast Host]

I'm looking into. So I'm getting married this year.

[Marianne Williamson]

Congratulations.

[Podcast Host]

And you know, we want to have kids next year or so, and we're looking into the cost of having a kid in the hospital.

[Marianne Williamson]

Hello.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God.

[Marianne Williamson]

Hello.

[Podcast Host]

20 to $30,000. So we just got the best insurance and it's still going to cost thousands.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you. This is outrageous. So in every advanced nation of the world, except for us, they have universal health care. You know, when my daughter had her baby. My daughter lives in London and of course she had the child. And I, you know, ran over there and I was thinking I was feeling a psychological difference being in a hospital like that where money wasn't on anybody's mind. You shouldn't even have to think about it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

And we have the most expensive healthcare system. It's not like we're producing great results.

[Podcast Host]

They're not great results, actually.

[Marianne Williamson]

No. No. This is just a system of greed. It's a system of institutionalized greed. Whether it's the insurance companies. There's no need for that middleman. The insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and now the hospitals. It's a whole complex. Right. And I think we saw with that horrifying murder, people are the reaction to that. With the UnitedHealthcare CEO, the reaction tells you something. People are. People have had it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, people have. Are you optimistic about RFK and Trump attacking big Pharma?

[Marianne Williamson]

I like Bobby Kennedy. I consider him a friend. And I think this was an example of the mistakes of the Democratic Party. We just let that how the Democratic Party has allowed the Republicans to now own health and health creation and sickness prevention. It was unnecessary, but that was in the past. Time to go forward. And I do support the things which will, you know, the other day, it's interesting. So before Biden left, they did outlaw that red dye.

[Podcast Host]

I saw that.

[Marianne Williamson]

But this should have been done a long time ago. And now there's more than that. So the fact that there is a larger question in the United States. You know, I come from the health and wellness field, so we've been having that conversation. But now that it's broken out and will have more to do with possible government behavior in support of greater health, I think it's great.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'm a fan of that movement for sure. How are you feeling overall with the Democratic Party? Obviously a lot of big players left. Right. This election. You had rfk, you had Elon.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, let's be very clear. Bobby only left because he felt sort of kicked out. You know, but a lot of people.

[Podcast Host]

Change their votes, as you saw with the election.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yes, there is no doubt about that. And that's why I'm running for DNC chair, because I want to help the Democratic Party course. Correct. We can't afford for the Democratic Party to fail. You know, some people have said, I've had it with both parties. I'm going third party, which I respect. It's not like I, you know, everybody has to go with their own conscience. But for me, we don't have time over the next two years to mount the kind of counterforce via a third party that is going to be necessary. The fact that Trump now has the White House, the fact that the Republicans have the House, the Republicans have the Senate, there's going to have to be a force of loyal opposition to much of what they are proposing. And I'm running for a DNC chair because I feel that all my accumulated experiences, professionally and personally, actually give me insight and perspective and skill sets and expertise that would enable us to begin Again, the Democratic Party needs to throw out the old playbook and start over a much higher ground.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I was rooting for you last election. Thank you. I wanted you to get a fair shot at debates.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, it was unfortunate. And I think that there are a lot of Democrats now who realize how.

[Podcast Host]

Corrupt.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, the fact that we didn't have debates, the fact that we didn't have a robust primary, the fact of the suppression of all of that, I have certainly had to work through personally. And now I've worked with publicly. I've told people how I feel about that. The word is out. People get it now. It's time to move forward. And so that's. My eyes are on the future rather than the past now. And I think the parties has to be as well.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's important not to dwell on the past.

[Marianne Williamson]

Right. Yeah. There was a lot to learn there. Very unfortunate. Had horrible results, led to abject failure. Okay. The people who thought that was a good idea should not be the ones in charge going forward. And those who would continue that status quo are not the ones who should be leading us going forward. And now it's time for a. A whole new path. Having learned from what we went through, you know, for an organization and I think for a nation, just like for an individual, the only real failure is the failure to learn from something. And there's tremendous yearning for hope and possibility. I mean, what should the Democratic Party be thinking about right now? The Democratic Party should not be thinking about the past. The Democratic Party should be thinking about people like you who are about to get married, who want to have children, and the cost is so prohibitive. That's where our attention should be, and that's where it will be if I win the chair of the dnc.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. It's needed. I grew up Democratic. I grew up in New Jersey, and I feel like I haven't changed much at all, but I feel like I've been forced to the right a little bit.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, let's look at your grandparents. Your grandmother gave birth to five children, and they didn't. Hello. He had a farm and they were able to afford that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

So that's really what we need to be looking at. And that's what the Democratic Party needs to stand for. The Democratic Party needs to stand for you being very clear and also being very clear of how many Democratic policies had helped create the situation that resulted in your grandparents being able to have the life that they had on that farm.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. When you look at Trump saying He wants to get rid of the Department of Education. Does that scare you.

[Marianne Williamson]

The way he would want to do it and the reasons he would want to do it for? It scares me. Under some circumstances it might not have, but with all the white supremacists, the Christian nationalists, extreme right wing forces that are wanting to ban books and not feel a responsibility to teach children the real history of this country, particularly for instance, when it comes to Native Americans or in terms of race. That scares me because I know that there are some states where very extreme forces are in charge of their state houses and their school boards.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's a tricky situation because each state is different, each city has different schools.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, at its best, that's a beautiful thing. At its best. That's why a federal system is in theory, a good thing. Alexander Hamilton said that the states are the laboratories of reform.

[Podcast Host]

I love that.

[Marianne Williamson]

But we should be able to agree that you guys are going to teach history. Right? There should be some standards. And you know, I think a large one of the reasons we're in. Some of the problems we have. Some of the problems we have is because there are states where they don't even require a half a year of American history, American civics and American government.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Marianne Williamson]

So if a child doesn't learn about the Bill of Rights, then when that child grows up to an adult to be an adult, how can we be surprised that that adult isn't horrified when the Bill of Rights is under assault and only one of those 10amendments that they've even heard anything about is the Second Amendment? Well, there are nine others, guys. So those are the areas of concern I have about just giving it all over to the states. Not that the Department of Education was fixing all that anyway. Listen, Eisenhower said that the American mind at its best is both liberal and conservative. There are high minded conservative principles and high minded liberal principles. And I do believe that people in all the states have legitimate concerns when they feel that these rules are coming out of Washington that don't necessarily apply to their circumstances. And I feel that the balance between the two is extremely important. There do have to be some standards that we agree on as a nation which should include, once again, that we teach our children what's actually happened in this country. And banning books should be.

[Podcast Host]

Trying to ban. I'm not aware of that.

[Marianne Williamson]

Oh, you don't know about that? Oh, well, listen, if you're gonna be a daddy soon, you need to know about this. There are people in this country who want to ban great American classics. They want to Ban books like the Grapes of Wrath. Look it up. The most banned books, they want to ban books like To Kill a Mockingbird.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, I remember that one.

[Marianne Williamson]

They want to ban books like. Like A Portrait of Dorian Gray. Some of the great works of American literature, they want to ban because they might have some hint at homosexuality or some hint at even heterosexual sexuality, or they might have some hint at what they do in some states. This is what was going on in South Carolina, and this is really, really terrible. Actually. There is this thing that's happened in this culture, and both left and right do this. I don't want to have this conversation. It makes me uncomfortable. Hello. Part of growing up is understanding some of the most important conversations are not comfortable. It's part of being an adult. It's part of being mature. And that's true not only about our personal lives, it's also true about our national existence. Race would be a perfect example. No, it doesn't make anyone comfortable to read about slavery, but we need to understand slavery. This was the enslavement of human beings. Millions of human beings better believe we need to grow up understanding that. You know, at the end of World War II, an agreement was made between the German government and the Jews of Germany that the history of the Holocaust would be taught in perpetuity to all children. This is important because history repeats itself when people don't understand. And they knew at that time there were already Holocaust deniers and so forth. Well, there are people in the south, actually. They're not going so far as to say slavery didn't happen, but they are saying ridiculous things like their phrases like unpaid labor or something.

[Podcast Host]

I've seen that on Twitter. People saying the Holocaust numbers were inflated.

[Marianne Williamson]

Right. I've seen stuff like that. Right, right. Which is total propaganda. That's all coming from the Holocaust denial group. We know exactly what happened because the Nazis actually kept very good records. Right. As did the inquisitors, interestingly, during the Inquisition. We also know what happened during slavery. And historians are pretty clear that between that at the end of the Civil War, there were somewhere between 4 and 5 million formerly enslaved people. Now, you've got to remember the first people brought over in those slave trade ships was in 1619.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Marianne Williamson]

So that's generation upon generation upon generation. And then it really revved up with the. With the intensification of the cotton trade in the late 1800s. So if at the time of the end of slavery, at the end of the Civil war, there were 4 to 5 million, think how many millions had preceded That a lot.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

In other generations. Yeah. Because we're Talking about almost 250 years of slavery in this country now. Is it comfortable for you and me to hear those numbers? No. But is it absolutely necessary for us to be responsible American adults, for us to understand that and then to look at the rest of what is going on in America informed by facts from the past? Absolutely. So going back to South Carolina, so this woman in the teachers association there was telling me that they've passed a law where all a child has to do and think how children are told by their parents. So if a child comes home and says, we are reading this or that book, if the parent says to their child, you have to tell the teacher tomorrow, that book makes me uncomfortable, then they can't any longer teach it in class.

[Podcast Host]

Whoa. Just one student. I mean, that's.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you. This is what's happening. So the idea of just saying, even though, in general, yes, Education is in the hands of the states, the fact that there is no way to stop that now, on the other hand, it's not like Department of Education could stop that because that's in the hands of the state. Everything that we need to have happen is ultimately rooted in a revolution of consciousness, in a revolution of ethics. But I don't. And this is why my friends who are in the health, the wellness, spirituality world, I think have such an important part to play, because there has been. Because there's so much toxicity in politics, because there's so much corruption. I think some of the best and the brightest in America haven't wanted to have anything to do with politics.

[Podcast Host]

Agreed.

[Marianne Williamson]

So then what happens is that you have things like I'm mentioning here and people in some of the smartest people in America going, really? I didn't know that was happening. And you get what we've got. And so many of the things you and I have already talked about are not good.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You get so wrapped up in it. People don't give their spiritual side a chance to shine. Right. They kind of put it on the back burner.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. But that's what makes you really unique.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Have you always been pretty open minded in terms of spirituality?

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, the spirituality, yeah. It was something I've been involved with my whole life. I was always interested in politics. And I grew up in a home where political conversation was definitely part of the daily.

[Podcast Host]

Dinner table conversations.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah. But I felt in terms of my own personal career that my skills and my contribution lay in the area of personal and spiritual transformation. But I saw things change in this country because I grew up at a time where I could go off and do whatever I wanted to do. Just make sure you vote for the Democrats, support the Democrats, do what you can. And more than not, the Democrats are holding aloft in the political sphere the values that you believe in. But I saw things begin to change in this country when so much of the suffering that I bore witness to that in the 1980s, let's say, was a crisis in someone's life. But it was the exception. It wasn't the rule. I saw so many people around the year 2000 where the suffering was the rule and not the exception. The problem wasn't just that someone had cancer. It was that they didn't have health care. It wasn't just that they couldn't find a job. They found a job, but that one job can't support their family. So I was bearing witness and in close touch with people who were going through terrible things that were at least indirectly, due to bad public policy. And I thought, no amount of private charity is going to fix this. No amount of spiritual transformation. No, our job should not be just to make people resilient. Why should people have to be so resilient? Why in the richest country in the world, is the situation so unjust that so many millions of people are having such a hard time? When you have, for instance, $7, our minimum wage in this country federally is $7.25 an hour, you have a third of the working force in the United States is living on less than 15. And in every major city, the living wage is over $21, $22 an hour. Yeah. So. And those that one third of America's workforce can't find half of them. So it is so built baked into the cake right now that a few, you know, if you're in that, if you're in the club in America, this is a great place to be. Right. But that club is ever shrinking so that you have to have, you know, if you have a certain amount of resources, yeah, you can get access to, you know, easy access to health care. If you're in that club, you can get easy access to higher education. But our job as citizens is to ensure that there is as much universal possibility for a fair shot as possible. This isn't just supposed to be about what I can get. It's about what we can create together. America should be a collective mission. That's it. We have a national purpose. If you say all men are created equal, if you say that we have unalienable rights given by our Creator here to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you say that governments are instituted to secure those rights, and if government isn't doing its job, it is the right of the people to alter it or to abolish it. You know, you and I are talking in Washington, D.C. right before an inaugural. This is big, big stuff. America trying to govern itself and America trying to do its best. And these are. I was talking to a man yesterday, I was in Detroit, and I. We were talking about the inauguration. He told me that he had not voted. He said, I did. Well, who you. He asked me if I. He knew I was coming to Washington. He said, are you going for the inauguration? I said, no. I'm a. I'm a Democrat. I didn't support the, you know, the president, but it's an. It's an exciting ritual still, you know. He said. I said, did you vote for Trump? He said, no, but I won $500 because I bet that he would win. I said, well, that was almost an easy bet. Unfortunately, at a certain point, he said that he hadn't voted because he had moved to Michigan from Illinois and just hadn't changed his registration yet. I said, would you have voted for him? And he said, yes, I would have. And he was a very nice man. And I said to him, very respectfully, does it not bother you that he's in many ways a bad guy, that he's such a liar, that he's so mean to people? And the man looked at me in a kind of bewildered way, and he said, let me put it this way. When I lived in Illinois, I was a doorman at a hotel, and I had a limo company, and my wife did not have to work. I was making over $100,000 a year, and we raised three great kids, and they were. Since I've been here, I'm a doorman. My wife also works, and we can't make anything near what I made before. And he started going into great detail about the price of the stakes that he can no longer buy.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Marianne Williamson]

And I said, do you think that Trump is going to fix that? And he had a kind of pained look on his face, like. And I said, so what you're telling me is that you don't know if Trump can fix it, but you know that what's happening now is not acceptable? And he said, yes. And I think that there are millions of people like him, tens of millions, and I respect that. I respect their experience. And that's why I want to be DNC chair, because I want to. I want that man to know that we do have his back and I want to make sure that we do.

[Podcast Host]

I love that. Yeah. What a story. And that's so relatable.

[Marianne Williamson]

I also know a man, and I think this fits into that. His name is Paul Dolman and he has a podcast out of Martha's Vineyard. Great guy, very smart man. And he told me, I went to a Trump rally, he said, because I wanted to know why. And he said, as I was leaving, I said a prayer. And in my heart I heard, people will go with false hope before. They'll go for no hope.

[Podcast Host]

That's deep, but that's true. If there's no hope, I mean, why would you want that?

[Marianne Williamson]

Or to tell people that the economy is basically doing well when they can't buy eggs anymore. Yeah, that's invalidating their experience. Yeah, it's disrespectful.

[Podcast Host]

And they've done multiple studies on trust levels with the government and how it's at an all time low right now.

[Marianne Williamson]

Sinking like a stone, I think the.

[Podcast Host]

Lowest it's ever been or something like that, which is crazy.

[Marianne Williamson]

JFK said, those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. Governments, the political class. This town's better start delivering for people or we're going to be in big trouble in this country.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, it's getting harder to earn the consumer's trust, I think, because also the media too. A lot of misinformation on the media.

[Marianne Williamson]

Absolutely, absolutely. The disinformation, the misinformation. And now, you know, things like Zuckerberg saying we're not going to do fact checking anymore, and that has to do. You know, they're all. Those guys are just sucked in. They're all at Mar a Lago and they're all.

[Podcast Host]

So you're not a fan of that move, the fact checking, removing that?

[Marianne Williamson]

Huh?

[Podcast Host]

What do you think of that?

[Marianne Williamson]

No, listen, whether you're on the left or the right, I don't want you telling me what you think. I will tell you that. But I do believe that there are some things that are absolute, that are, that are facts. And I'm not saying that the Democrats know what the facts are in, the Republicans don't. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that's a right left issue, but there are some historical facts and so forth of what really happened. For instance, Holocaust denial. I'm sorry, There's a fact, 6 million. It's a fact.

[Podcast Host]

And that's been all over.

[Marianne Williamson]

That's not an opinion that's a fact.

[Podcast Host]

I know it's been everywhere on X, the hate on Israel and on Jewish people. That's the one side effect, I guess, of allowing total free speech.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, as I remember Sacha Baron Cohen saying, if Hitler were alive today, he'd be taking 30 second ads out on Facebook. So to me, it's not a black and white issue. But it also goes back to what we were saying earlier. Ultimately, it's going to have to be a revolution of the heart, revolution of ethics. Ultimately we have to be a world in which not enough people would ever want to lie about things like that, Right?

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. I do want to get your opinion on the fire situation. Gavin Newsom's under a lot of heat. There's like a petition with over a million signatures asking for his resignation. How do you think he handled that incident?

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, I think that there are problems on the level of symptom and on the level of cause. I think a lot of that conversation is a deflection from the role of fossil fuel extraction. This is exactly what scientists, climate scientists have been telling us was going to happen. So I'm not interested in anything that would deflect from the conversation. A lot of those people who are complaining about Newsom and Karen Bass have been also signing petitions, you know, the drool baby drill crop now. And absolutely, it is outrageous on a level of government, on the level of where there was brush and vegetation that was not cleaned up, on the level of the, of the reservoir, there's some people say, well, they knew they had to close it before repairs. This was the time to do it. I don't know how anybody could say that this was the time to do it. So clearly there has been, on the level of government and on the level of cause, severe irresponsibility. You cannot ever, and I've lived really most of my adult life in Los Angeles, you can never look at, you can never in any way drop your guard on issues of fire prevention. And that has to do with the budgeting of the fire department, it has to do with the reservoirs, it has to do with vegetation and brush. So obviously things were not handled well on the level of government, but they were also not handled well on the level of government regarding climate change. So neither side should be self congratulatory at this point.

[Podcast Host]

Right, because there were warnings, right, that this could happen.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, listen, the warnings that could happen, you can never consider a day in Los Angeles in which this is not a possibility.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Marianne Williamson]

But yes, there was particular high wind conditions and that's where Some of the criticism of the mayor comes in.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Marianne Williamson]

Not a moment to be.

[Podcast Host]

Or whatever.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Bad timing.

[Marianne Williamson]

I mean, we should remember that there are such trips as that which mayors make and that clearly they say that she'd been warned. You know, there were mistakes, I think, on all levels. And like I said, don't leave out climate change, though.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And the insurance companies pulling out. I mean, I feel for these guys losing their whole lives.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah. I think there will be some major in the rebuilding. I mean, this doesn't take away from the horror of now, but in the rebuilding, there is a lot to look at in terms of building materials. There's a lot to look at. Man whose house remained standing and he just had some cheap sprinkler system around the edge. I mean, I think that there will be fire regulations, just like we've learned to have building regulations in terms of earthquakes. I think going forward, we will have building regulations in terms of fire. Fire prevention as well. Pardon?

[Podcast Host]

It's needed, clearly. Yeah.

[Marianne Williamson]

Well, you know, this is how life is. You learn from tragedies.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Phenomenal podcast appearance on Aubrey Marcus show, by the way.

[Marianne Williamson]

Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. That Austin crowd is great people that, you know. I come from Houston. Native Estonian. I've lived in Austin, and there's just some wonderful sort of the best of Texas consciousness going on with some of those people there these days. Yeah, it's the capital.

[Podcast Host]

It's the podcast capital of the country, actually. You got Joe Rogan there.

[Marianne Williamson]

You got Marcus, Luke Story.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Cody Sanchez.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

A lot of the comedy podcasts are out there. Yeah. Shout out to Austin. I'll be there for south by South.

[Marianne Williamson]

Blessed.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'm excited.

[Marianne Williamson]

Yeah, I've been there before.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Well, Marianne, this has been really fun.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Where can people support you?

[Marianne Williamson]

Okay. Thank you. You can go to marianne4dnc.com marianne numeral4dnc.com so that's. You know, we don't have much time on that, but any support you can give. And you know, on my social media, I'm everywhere, so people can.

[Podcast Host]

Best of luck to you. And she has podcast. You guys check her out.

[Marianne Williamson]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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