Digital Social Hour: Why EVERY Startup Needs Cloud Computing in 2024 | Kenny Li DSH #726

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Kenny Li, Founder of Manta Network
Release Date: September 18, 2024

In episode #726 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an insightful conversation with Kenny Li, the visionary behind Manta Network. The discussion traverses the critical role of cloud computing in modern startups, the evolving landscape of cryptocurrency, and Kenny's personal entrepreneurial journey. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their dialogue, highlighting key topics, expert insights, and memorable quotes.

1. The Evolution of Cloud Computing for Startups

Kenny Li opens the conversation by emphasizing the pivotal shift in the perception of cloud computing. Once considered a "sandbox" or a "toy" for developers (00:00), cloud computing has become indispensable for businesses launching at scale in 2024. He asserts, “I don't think you can find any business that's launching today at scale that doesn't use cloud computing. Seriously?” (00:26).

This transformation underscores how cloud infrastructure has transitioned from experimental to essential, enabling startups to leverage advanced technologies without the overhead of maintaining physical servers.

2. Introducing Manta Network and Kenny's Entrepreneurial Journey

Sean Kelly expresses enthusiasm about Kenny's project amidst a surge in cryptocurrency interest (00:29). Kenny shares the growth trajectory of Manta Network, which began as a research team three years ago and has expanded to a global team of 65 members (00:40). He highlights the supportive community that has been instrumental in the project's development.

3. Cryptocurrency Investment Insights: Bitcoin and Ethereum

The dialogue delves into the merits of investing in cryptocurrency, particularly Bitcoin and Ethereum. Kenny provides a nuanced perspective, distinguishing Bitcoin as a "store of value" and Ethereum as a platform for decentralized applications (04:00). He explains, “Ethereum is more so for this concept that people refer to as Web3, which is a decentralized network for computing and applications rather than a decentralized network for purely payments, which is Bitcoin.” (04:59).

4. Overcoming Challenges in Crypto: Scalability and Usability

Kenny identifies scalability as a significant hurdle for Ethereum and blockchain technology at large. Using a relatable analogy, he compares cryptocurrency transactions to daily activities, such as buying a coffee, stressing the importance of speed and affordability (05:07). “If I tried to pay in Bitcoin, we're going to stand there for like 30 minutes. And even with Ethereum, we're going to stand there for like an awkward 30 seconds to a minute or so.” (05:24).

He discusses ongoing efforts within Manta Network and other teams to enhance transaction speed and reduce costs, aiming to eliminate barriers to mainstream adoption.

5. The Volatility of the Crypto Market

Sean and Kenny address the inherent volatility of the cryptocurrency market. Kenny reflects on his early involvement in Bitcoin mining (07:38) and observes, “Crypto is definitely a beast of its own.” (09:33), highlighting the extreme price fluctuations and their impact on investor sentiment.

6. Regulatory Landscape: SEC's Influence on Crypto

A significant portion of the conversation centers on regulatory challenges, particularly the role of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Kenny recounts his experience as a teaching assistant for Gary Gensler at MIT, providing him with deep insights into SEC's stance on crypto (11:08). He remarks, “Gary... he's also one of the guys that I think is the most knowledgeable about the industry.” (12:16).

Kenny discusses the SEC's actions against major entities like Ethereum and Binance, noting the broader implications for global crypto innovation. “Because of this lack of regulatory clarity, a lot of the innovation, a lot of the talent, and a lot of the opportunity is actually moving out of the west and heading into the East.” (13:57).

7. Global Perspectives: East vs. West in Crypto Innovation

Kenny highlights the dynamic shift of crypto innovation towards Eastern markets such as Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, and Malaysia. He points out Vietnam's proactive policies in integrating cryptocurrency into brick-and-mortar businesses as a testament to the region's forward-thinking approach (14:44). This migration is partly driven by stringent regulations in Western countries, fostering a competitive edge for Eastern startups.

8. Personal Anecdotes: Selling Blood and Entrepreneurship

Kenny shares a personal story about selling blood to sustain his entrepreneurial endeavors when building his first cloud computing company (15:24). He humorously notes, “Another thing is actually astrology. I can get into that in a second.” (15:37), transitioning into his ventures beyond tech.

9. Ventures into Astrology and App Development

Kenny discusses his experience developing an app aimed at content creators, allowing them to monetize interactions with their audience (17:00). Despite initial setbacks with content creators perceiving the model as exploitative, the app unexpectedly gained traction within the astrology community. Kenny observes, “Astrologers were able to use my platform and charge, like, 300, 500, a thousand bucks per question.” (21:05), showcasing the app's pivot to a lucrative niche market.

10. Experiences with AI and SenseTime

The conversation shifts to Kenny's internship at SenseTime, a leading AI company focused on facial recognition technology (22:43). He provides a detailed account of the geopolitical implications of AI advancements, particularly the U.S.-China tensions over technology supremacy and the ethical concerns surrounding AI applications in surveillance (24:12). Kenny reflects, “Both sides are so conflicted against each other, and that's what leads to these sort of conflicts.” (28:31).

11. US-China Relations and AI Technology

Kenny elaborates on the complexities of the U.S.-China trade war, especially concerning rare earth minerals essential for chip manufacturing (25:18). He explains how American companies inadvertently supply technology that Chinese entities utilize for surveillance, highlighting the intertwined nature of global tech supply chains.

12. Personal Backgrounds and Cultural Insights

A lighter segment of the discussion explores the personal backgrounds of Sean and Kenny, touching on cultural heritage and upbringing (28:56). Kenny shares anecdotes about his early life in Beijing and his immigration to the U.S. at two and a half years old, fostering a bicultural identity (30:00).

13. Future of Manta Network and Closing Thoughts

Towards the end of the episode, Kenny outlines Manta Network's roadmap, focusing on solving scalability issues to enhance transaction efficiency (33:07). He encourages listeners to connect with him on Twitter, where he maintains a presence under the handle "Super Anonymous K" (33:53). Sean concludes by inviting listeners to explore Manta's ventures and stay updated on future developments (34:04).

Notable Quotes

• Kenny Li (00:26): “I don't think you can find any business that's launching today at scale that doesn't use cloud computing. Seriously?”

• Kenny Li (04:59): “Ethereum is more so for this concept that people refer to as Web3, which is a decentralized network for computing and applications rather than a decentralized network for purely payments, which is Bitcoin.”

• Kenny Li (05:24): “If I tried to pay in Bitcoin, we're going to stand there for like 30 minutes. And even with Ethereum, we're going to stand there for like an awkward 30 seconds to a minute or so.”

• Kenny Li (09:33): “Crypto is definitely a beast of its own.”

• Kenny Li (12:16): “Gary... he's also one of the guys that I think is the most knowledgeable about the industry.”

• Kenny Li (13:57): “Because of this lack of regulatory clarity, a lot of the innovation, a lot of the talent, and a lot of the opportunity is actually moving out of the west and heading into the East.”

• Kenny Li (21:05): “Astrologers were able to use my platform and charge, like, 300, 500, a thousand bucks per question.”

• Kenny Li (24:12): “Both sides are so conflicted against each other, and that's what leads to these sort of conflicts.”

Final Thoughts

Kenny Li's multifaceted experiences—from cloud computing and cryptocurrency to AI technology and personal entrepreneurship—offer a rich tapestry of insights into the modern tech landscape. His emphasis on scalability, regulatory navigation, and global innovation underscores the challenges and opportunities facing startups today. Digital Social Hour provides listeners with a deep dive into the intersection of technology, business strategy, and personal resilience, making it an invaluable resource for entrepreneurs and tech enthusiasts alike.

For more information about Kenny Li and Manta Network, listeners are encouraged to follow Kenny on Twitter (@SuperAnonymousK) and explore Manta's official channels.