Why Tech CEOs Are Walking Backwards (Science Explained) | Knees over Toes Guy DSH #960

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Why Tech CEOs Are Walking Backwards (Science Explained) | Knees over Toes Guy DSH #960

Release Date: December 8, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Ben Patrick, the "Knees Over Toes Guy"

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Introduction

In episode #960 of the Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes fitness innovator Ben Patrick, popularly known as the "Knees Over Toes Guy." The episode delves deep into Ben’s revolutionary approach to fitness, focusing on knee health, backward training, and overall mobility. Ben shares his personal journey, the science behind his methods, and the transformative impact his training has had on athletes and everyday individuals alike.

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Ben Patrick's Background and Motivation

Ben Patrick's foray into fitness was born out of necessity. Suffering from chronic knee pain by the age of 12 and undergoing major knee surgery in his late teens, Ben struggled with conventional fitness advice that often dismissed the importance of knee positioning.

“Chronic knee pain by age 12, knee surgery in my late teens, and reaching my 20s without dunking—those experiences shaped my approach to training.”
[08:27]

These challenges motivated Ben to explore alternative training methods, leading him to develop the Knees Over Toes (KOT) training system aimed at improving knee strength and overall mobility.

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The Knees Over Toes Training Philosophy

Ben’s KOT philosophy challenges traditional fitness paradigms, particularly the long-held belief that knees should never extend past the toes during exercises like squats. He argues that this restriction was based on outdated assumptions rather than solid scientific evidence.

“In the 1970s, the conclusion was no knees over toes. That was just an incorrect assumption.”
[09:23]

Instead, Ben emphasizes the benefits of allowing the knees to move beyond their usual range, enhancing muscle strength and joint health.

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Benefits of Backward Walking and Training

A cornerstone of Ben’s methodology is backward walking. Contrary to conventional forward-centric exercises, backward walking engages muscles and joints differently, offering unique rehabilitative and strength-building benefits.

“When you go backward, it’s almost like rehab for forward activities. It’s not that forward isn’t amazing, but walking backward balances and enhances your forward movements.”
[05:24]

Backward training not only increases total step count but also improves balance, reduces knee pain, and enhances overall athletic performance.

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Injury Prevention and Rehabilitation

Ben’s approach is particularly effective for injury prevention and rehabilitation. By focusing on strengthening muscles around the knees and improving ankle mobility, his methods help mitigate common sports injuries.

“If you have real problems, reversing those motions allows you to find levels you can do without pain, aiding in long-term recovery.”
[11:18]

Ben shares numerous success stories, including individuals who have avoided surgery through his training and athletes who have returned to peak performance post-injury.

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Personal Stories and Impact

Throughout the episode, Ben recounts personal and anecdotal stories that highlight the effectiveness of his training. One notable example is his mother's recovery from severe hip deterioration, enabling her to sprint and engage actively with her grandchildren.

“She didn’t start exercising immediately, but once she did, her hip problems were completely overcome. Now, she’s as active as my wife and I.”
[36:56]

Such testimonials underscore the life-changing potential of Ben’s methods.

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Training Regimen and Philosophy on Fitness

Ben advocates for a full-body training approach rather than isolated muscle group workouts. Typically training three times a week, he emphasizes starting from the lower body and progressively engaging upper body muscles.

“I train full body because I love it. Starting at the bottom and earning my way up to finishing with upper body exercises works best for me.”
[20:47]

This holistic approach ensures balanced muscle development, enhanced flexibility, and reduced injury risk.

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The Role of Purpose and Mindset in Fitness

Beyond physical training, Ben highlights the importance of purpose and mindset in achieving fitness goals. He believes that prioritizing helping others and maintaining a sense of purpose leads to greater personal fulfillment and long-term success.

“Helping people is my primary goal. Mastering money comes second. Purpose drives sustainable success.”
[15:05–15:38]

This philosophy extends to his interactions with clients and the broader fitness community, fostering a supportive and purpose-driven environment.

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Impact on Family and Future Goals

Ben’s commitment to family fitness is evident in his efforts to create scalable training systems that parents and children can engage in together. His vision is to foster multi-generational fitness habits that promote lifelong health and mobility.

“My life's work is about taking these concepts and making them smoothly scalable so that parents and kids can naturally follow and maintain these healthy habits for life.”
[28:35]

Looking ahead, Ben aims to see a significant increase in youth fitness levels, aspiring for a future where children are more physically capable than previous generations.

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Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Ben Patrick shares his innovative Knees Over Toes training system, which challenges conventional fitness wisdom and offers profound benefits for knee health, injury prevention, and overall mobility. His personal journey, combined with compelling success stories and a holistic training philosophy, provides valuable insights for anyone looking to enhance their physical well-being. Ben’s emphasis on purpose, family fitness, and scalable training underscores his dedication to transforming lives through informed and effective exercise practices.

“If you make a difference in someone’s life, even one person at a time, that contributes to improving broader health statistics.”
[34:22]

Listeners are encouraged to explore Ben’s resources through ATGOnlineCoaching.com and his social media channels to embark on their own journey towards enhanced health and athleticism.

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Key Takeaways:

• Backward Training: Offers unique rehabilitative and strength-building benefits by engaging muscles and joints differently.
• Knees Over Toes Philosophy: Challenges outdated fitness norms, promoting knee-centric exercises for improved joint health.
• Holistic Approach: Emphasizes full-body training and integrates strength with flexibility for balanced physical development.
• Purpose-Driven Fitness: Advocates for a mindset focused on helping others and maintaining a sense of purpose to drive sustainable success.
• Family Fitness: Aims to create scalable training systems that encourage multi-generational health and mobility habits.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Chronic knee pain by age 12, knee surgery in my late teens, and reaching my 20s without dunking—those experiences shaped my approach to training.”
  Ben Patrick, [08:27]

• “In the 1970s, the conclusion was no knees over toes. That was just an incorrect assumption.”
  Ben Patrick, [09:23]

• “When you go backward, it’s almost like rehab for forward activities. It’s not that forward isn’t amazing, but walking backward balances and enhances your forward movements.”
  Ben Patrick, [05:24]

• “If you make a difference in someone’s life, even one person at a time, that contributes to improving broader health statistics.”
  Ben Patrick, [34:22]

---

For more insights and to connect with Ben Patrick, visit ATGOnlineCoaching.com and follow him on his social media platforms.

Transcript

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[Ben Patrick]

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[Austin James]

I'm only walking like 6,000 a day right now, which is decent, but they say 10,000 is what you should be doing, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Something like that.

[Austin James]

And you're doing that backwards.

[Ben Patrick]

I encourage people to fit some backward into the routine in any way. Like my parents, they hold hands so one person can see where they're going and the other walks backward. So I say like at least 200 yards each way. Fantastic.

[Austin James]

All right, guys, Ben Patrick here, knees over toes guy. Thanks for coming, man. And you brought a little book here. What's. What's this book about?

[Ben Patrick]

Really appreciate being here. The book. You can take a look at this if you want. Yeah, it looks old. The book's from the 1960s physical fitness program. Yeah, JFK had this book done. So he was actually having good results with American Fitness for Adults. He had a good youth system going. So in 60 years, we've advanced in a lot of ways. Yeah, we haven't advanced in our fitness, but we could. So that's really where my, my energy pours into now, the knees and how to have a system that like a whole family can do.

[Austin James]

So you think we've been pretty stagnant in the fitness category the past 60 years.

[Ben Patrick]

I mean, the overall health has definitely gone down over these past 60 years.

[Austin James]

Wow. Down the average health.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Yeah. The lifespan has dropped a little bit, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, definitely. The, like, the fitness of youth today is in a whole league lower than it was 60 years ago.

[Austin James]

And do you think technology is a big part of that?

[Ben Patrick]

It's definitely very enticing. Like, entertainment technology these days is, like, really good.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

Really entertaining reasons not to be moving our bodies.

[Austin James]

Yeah, we're super sedentary these days. The work, corporate lifestyle.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Average steps are probably down from six years ago. Tremendously, I'd assume.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

I'm only walking like 6,000 a day right now, which is decent. But they say 10,000 is what you should be doing, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, something like that.

[Austin James]

And you're doing that backwards?

[Ben Patrick]

I don't think I'm doing 10,000 steps a day backward, but I will say definitely increases the total step count. And there's added benefits to backward in addition to forward.

[Austin James]

Right. And you have a backwards treadmill that you sell now, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I encourage people to fit some backward into the routine in any way, whether it's like my parents. They hold hands so one person can see where they're going and the other walks backward. So I say, like, at least 200 yards each way. Fantastic.

[Austin James]

Just 200 yards. That's not too far.

[Ben Patrick]

You could do more if you want.

[Austin James]

Okay.

[Ben Patrick]

That would be pretty good. 200 yards backward for kids, I encourage them to not just run forward, but run backward as well. Like with youth sports, I'd be doing the conditioning as much backward as forward.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And then for adults, really, anyone could apply this. The kids could apply it, the grandparents could apply it, but definitely, once it gets into the strength training department, adding some resistance to backward walking. Like backward walking with a sled. Fantastic exercise. And yeah. I make only after answering thousands of times, what do I do without a sled to get resistance? Well, you can find a hill. You can have a buddy in a car with the car in neutral. Put your butt against the bumper. That was one of the ways I got off painkillers for my knees. Wow. My buddy taking turns steering the car so there's resistance. The car's in neutral, but against the bumper and working hard backward. But yeah. So after a decade of answering that question, yeah, I make a treadmill now that someone can have at home relatively affordably and get resistance backward to backward treadmill.

[Austin James]

Nice. And what's the whole philosophy behind the backwards movement?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. So forward. Super good. Think walking. Lots of correlation to longevity. Think athletes sprinting. I mean, there's few exercises better than sprinting in terms of the total benefit. When you go backward, it adds some rehab benefits. So if you imagine like walking forward, your heel hits the ground and then you step heel hits the ground, then you step. The moment you go to take a step backward, your toes first, so it's stimulating your foot differently, it's stimulating your lower leg muscles differently. And if you look from a side angle when you go to take a step backward, your knee is then over your toe, so there's pressure on the muscles differently around the knee. So when you go backward, it is almost like a rehab for forward activities. So it's not that forward isn't amazing, but it's really cool how you can balance and do backward work and then have less pain, more ability forward.

[Austin James]

Right. And doing that was a big part of your rehab. Right. I know you've had some pretty nasty injuries.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, that's how I got into this stuff. Chronic knee pain by age 1212.

[Indeed Advertiser]

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[Ben Patrick]

Hey, it's Austin James. Yes, I'm living with diabetes, but it doesn't have to define me. Thanks to the freestyle Libre 3 sensor, I get real time glucose readings throughout the day. The Freestyle Libre 3 sensor is small and easy to wear, giving me the freedom to focus on my life as a parent and a musician. Now this is progress. You can get a free sensor at FreestyleLibre US offer available for people who qualify. Visit MyFreestyle US to see all terms and conditions, certain exclusions apply. Data on file Avid Diabetes Care for prescription only Safety info found @freestylelibre US was the crazy work ethic basketball kid who like worked myself to chronic knee pain by 12, like a badge of honor. Only by 18, major knee surgery. Reached my 20s having never dunked.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

No bounce. But through that whole 12 to 18, the knee pain was there, so the muscles weren't forming right. Couldn't jump well. Was never taught about knees over toes training. In fact, went to trainers and was always told no knees over toes. So then in my 20s, stumbled on the walking backward with a sled, adding resistance to it somehow. Every step you take, your knee is over your toes. And I've kept obsessing on that for really when I was 18 is when I first found that. So I'm 33, so like 15 years I've been obsessing on knees over toes training. So yeah, if you learn how to train with your knees over your toes without working through pain, it's like a cheat code for jumping higher and protecting your knee rather than just completely avoiding that position.

[Austin James]

Incredible. Cause I was taught that too. No knees over toes. You start to wonder how much of the stuff we were taught growing up was. Was incorrect.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, it was understandable. Found in the 1970s, when your knee is over your toes, there's more pressure. There wasn't like long term study showing it was bad, just that it's more pressure. So the conclusion was no knees over toes. That goes into the college textbooks. Exercise in the 70s was not like a university subject. It was guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger slinging weights using full range of motion. They were knees over toes. Like knees over toes was a thing no one even had to mention. It just naturally was part of lifting weights until academia said no knees over toes without evidence. Just the assumption pressure on the knee when the knee is over the toes equals avoid it. It was just an incorrect assumption.

[Austin James]

Crazy.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. But five decades of research, I've now been able to emerge teaching really basic stuff that should have been like, I shouldn't have had a job doing this.

[Austin James]

Right. Do you have a lot of people doubting, hating at first, I'm sure throughout.

[Ben Patrick]

The process, I'm sure today there's still people. But the more I can teach it in a way that someone can understand it and see that it's safe. I mean, I've been training my mom for six years now. She's 70. She's a product of this people all over the world. Joe Rogan in his 50s back kicking the bag. So the idea is not to work through pain with your knees over your toes. The idea is to find levels that are enjoyable and then improve that ability.

[Austin James]

Right. This stuff's probably super important with the elderly because a lot of them pass away from falls, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. It's interesting they found that the better you can walk backward, the less chance you have of falling down the stairs. For elderly, it's like an effective screening process to not fall down the stairs is how well you can walk backward.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

So that just trains the muscles to just be stronger, basically.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I mean, if you think of falling down the stairs, just put a video of that and then watch it on rewind. There's an effective rehab after that. Not an end all, be all. But yeah. Some of these principles are very simple.

[Austin James]

Crazy. So if someone tears their meniscus or has a major injury, do you think they could recover without surgery?

[Ben Patrick]

These days, only a doctor can answer that. That's where it would get unethical of me to speak medically.

[Austin James]

Yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

So I'm just a trainer now. I save photos that people send in thousands of medical success stories. But it was never from someone saying, I have XYZ medical condition. No, no, no. It's like, okay, here's the motion you can't do. Let's reverse that motion. Let's find a level you can do. Not evaluating the medical condition. Let's never work through pain. And tons of medical stuff has happened. And that's how I got into it. The left knee had major surgery. The right knee was then torn up. I feel like worse than the left knee was. But by that point, I was like, I'd rather just be a wreck the rest of my life than have another surgery. And so I used myself as like a guinea pig. So the left knee super stiff from the surgery. The right knee torn up, but did not get surgery. And 10 years without a setback. You see all the crazy stuff I do.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

That would be physically impossible.

[Austin James]

Yes. You didn't get surgery on the right one.

[Ben Patrick]

No. So did it heal? I've never been back to a doctor to find out, but I'm dunking like a machine can put crazy stimulus into my knees with no negative repercussion.

[Austin James]

Right. So, yeah, you're dunking barefoot, you're doing splits, weighted splits.

[Ben Patrick]

So something obviously must have happened, but I still can't. So, yeah, I'm. Someone can come to their own conclusions on it, but I'd rather sell less and just be 100% honest about what I can than try to oversell and be dishonest about it or pretend that I'm a medical expert.

[Austin James]

Yeah, you base everything on how you feel. We were talking before. You don't take any tests, any blood tests or preventative tests.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. Now don't let me be an influencer on that. That's just my personal. I try to really focus on the quality of my exercise, eating real foods, getting good sleep, having a purpose in life.

[Austin James]

When your gut feels off, your whole.

[Ben Patrick]

Day can feel off.

[Austin James]

Activia probiotic yogurts and dailies are a quick, easy and tasty way to up.

[Ben Patrick]

Your gut health game every day.

[Austin James]

They're deliciously smooth and creamy and packed.

[Ben Patrick]

With billions of live and active probiotics.

[Austin James]

Your gut is where it all begins.

[Ben Patrick]

So start with Activia. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet.

[Austin James]

And healthy lifestyle can help reduce the.

[Ben Patrick]

Frequency of minor digestive discomfort. Having good relationships, all these things are shown broadly to equate really well with staying healthy. So I just focus on that stuff. But don't let me evaluate if some. Do all the tests you want, all the preventive tests you want, take all the supplements you want. That's not my field. I don't. I haven't felt the need for that yet. But I'm also not going to say, oh, I'll never take a supplement. I'll never.

[Austin James]

Yeah, yeah. So you never took supplements before?

[Ben Patrick]

I tried supplements a lot. That was part of my conclusion. It didn't work for me until I started making the movement good. So. So this. So I was taking tons of supplements from age 12 to 20.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

All kinds of stuff to try to fix my knees. None of it worked. Then found out that just how I exercised can give me like results I didn't even think were possible for my knees, my whole body. So I just haven't found the need to go back to supplements yet.

[Austin James]

That's interesting because a lot of people want that magic pill, that magic supplement. But if they just train differently, that maybe that could be their answer. Right?

[Ben Patrick]

That's a good point. I get anything. In the business world, if you make money, people are going to call you a scammer or this or that. Trust me, if I wanted to make money, like if that was my primary goal for the last five years, I would have been selling a joint supplement. I would be so much richer than I am now. Even if I just made a basic, good, honest joint supplement, I would make so much more money than I do right now.

[Austin James]

Oh, you would have crushed it, especially after Rogan.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, you would have. Primarily. If you want proof that helping people is my primary thing, I think you can and should master the subject of money. I do strongly believe you'll have a better life if that is always though number two to you, actually helping people and improving things around you. That has to be the deal breaker. That has to be the driving force. But go ahead and be the number one master of money. Look at Elon Musk, richest man in the world. Do you honestly think money is number one for him? Making a difference.

[Austin James]

Difference.

[Ben Patrick]

Right. But he's the richest man, so I think, hey, if he's the richest man, I'll make plenty of money keeping helping other people as my number one. And then, yeah, do master the subject of finances.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

To support that.

[Austin James]

Yeah. You mentioned purpose earlier. Yeah. When people have money as their number one, long term, it rarely works out.

[Ben Patrick]

I've noticed I've met too many people now being a trainer, it's cool you get to meet so many famous people behind the scenes. Met so many billionaires, some of the most famous athletes in the world. And yeah, the strongest correlation I see with whether people are happy or not is like, the purpose behind their daily work.

[Austin James]

A hundred percent. Keeps you up, like, wakes you up invigorated.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Like, money won't do that.

[Ben Patrick]

Met crazy rich, crazy successful people who then tell me they're depressed and I'm like, my head's starting to spin because I'm like, wait a second. I thought I was going to be, like, magically happy forever if I got to your level. So it definitely shaped things for me.

[Austin James]

Wow, that's cool. I want to talk about some of the guys you trained. I saw you make a video with Brian Johnson.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

You trained him.

[Ben Patrick]

His son was one of the early people doing my workouts.

[Austin James]

Oh, wow.

[Ben Patrick]

Before Brian was on social media, I went and trained the son. I didn't even know what he was doing. I didn't know his project or anything. And so, yeah, the son ended up training him and then he realized kind of where the workouts were coming from and so on. And so we've stayed in touch. And he does like a lot of my. I mean, he does a lot of stuff, but he uses a lot of my movements and been fortunate enough to meet them. They were fantastic people. I love the son. So purposeful, helping his dad. Like, how cool is that?

[Austin James]

Yeah, I think overall they're helping a lot of people just be aware of their health, which is great.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I think that's super important. If someone's out there working, if there's real problems. Right. So if people are out there working on those problems, I think that's cool. I have so many friends who don't disagree on stuff. Like, I disagree with all kinds of stuff, but the idea that disagreeing would then be a reason to, like, hate on people and this and that, I think that's where things go wrong.

[Austin James]

I see a lot of that in your industry, man. It's crazy.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. You disagree with someone, therefore you now have, like, hatred for that person. I think that's where we go wrong. Like, I think that's wronger than being wrong.

[Austin James]

Wow. What a statement. Yeah. People do take it personally, though.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

I think because money's involved and they see people making money, they get jealous. Yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

And we don't grow up in schools. We don't learn, like, a real moral code these days on how to treat people. It's not like, part of the. Like, where do we put thousands of hours into the education? Like, I put more hours into geometric, you know, geometry equations that I've never used in my entire life than I ever learned in school about how to treat other people.

[Austin James]

Yeah. They don't teach you that you get.

[Ben Patrick]

What you put your energy on. There's not energy on how to. How to treat people. How to treat people online. Like, that should have already been a class in school five years ago.

[Austin James]

Yeah. They should teach out in first grade.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

These days kids have iPads and Instagram and, like, 8 years old.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. Crazy what you put your energy on. We don't put energy on that.

[Austin James]

Yeah. You've also trained a ton of professional athletes. I saw you say on Chris Williams show that basketball players get the most wear and tear on their knees.

[Ben Patrick]

If you look at the nature of the sport, Right. Like, if we were matched up one on one right now, and you have to fake me out, get around me and make a basket, you do so largely by putting a ton of force into your knees. Like, if you had to fake me that way, the better you can fake, that means, like, the more force is going into your knee. Like, a poor fake. Like, a weak fake would be a very low amount of pressure into the knee. If you really sold it, you'd be putting a ton of force into your knee. I'd react that way. You'd go that way. Now I recover to try to block the shot. What do you have to do? Jump higher. Ton of force on the knee. So it's like the nature of our sport is A ton of force on the knee. So it's kind of a perfect experiment for me because I couldn't just be sitting in a lab. Oh, I feel good. Feel good. I don't care how you feel. Let's see. For me, it was like basketball was too much for my knee. Let's get to where basketball is a joke for me now. It's, like, crazy. It's still, like, it blows my mind. I go play as hard as I can, dunking all this stuff, and it's like, where's the knee pain?

[Austin James]

None.

[Ben Patrick]

No.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

But the ability in the knee is now just so much more than the demand on it, so it's still relative. I can also jump off high stuff and not get hurt. But don't make me keep going too high or I'm dead. It's just relative. There's no absolute protection. There's no absolute knee protection.

[Austin James]

Well, that's cool that you could train your body to the point where you're not getting knee pain, though, anymore, at least for basketball.

[Ben Patrick]

I strongly believe, believe that someone could definitely get their ability to our basketball stand. That's impressive for the knee. Yeah.

[Austin James]

When you see these outdoor ballers, they have the worst knee pain.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. Street ballers play like I play on concrete.

[Austin James]

Oh, you do?

[Ben Patrick]

And I love it because I'm, you know, my body's an experiment that should be easy for my knees to handle.

[Austin James]

I prefer playing indoors just because I feel so sore after concrete.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I used to feel that way, but now the concrete feels.

[Austin James]

Feels like grass to you.

[Ben Patrick]

That's what.

[Austin James]

Yeah, that's awesome, man.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, comparatively.

[Austin James]

That's cool.

[Ben Patrick]

Maybe it's even slight. Maybe it's 20, 30%, but whatever the difference is, it's like, enough that the same thing isn't a problem now.

[Austin James]

So how often are you training and. And recovering? What's your process on a weekly basis? Look, look like, look like.

[Ben Patrick]

I'd say I average, like, year round, year to year. Like, I average three workouts a week. So I enjoy exercising more than that. Between kids and running the business and so on, that's kind of like. I know if I get two to three, I like to train full body. So, like, I start at the bottom, like, start down at the ankle, work my way up, and, like, finish with a set of upper body exercises. So I don't do much upper body, but I finish with the upper body. If I get a full body session in two to three times a week, I'm good.

[Austin James]

That's not too bad.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Some people train Every day.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And I like to. Just. Because I like to exercise. It kind of depends on the. The life factors and what the kids are doing in the schedule. And so, like, if my schedule is open, I just exercise.

[Austin James]

Okay.

[Ben Patrick]

Like, I exercise every day. If the. If it seems to fit the schedule.

[Austin James]

And I like. Yeah, no, I like how you just bang it all out. Because a lot of people are like, oh, this, did you back this? They do chest this, they do legs.

[Ben Patrick]

I'm addicted to it. Full body. That's just me. It doesn't mean the other stuff doesn't work. I just really love that, like starting at the bottom of my body and earning my way all the way up to. To finishing with the upper body.

[Austin James]

Yeah. I mean, I'd honestly prefer that than to go six days a week and train a different muscle every day.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be training you this week, so you'll have to do a live workout with me and it'll be full body and we won't need any equipment. I will teach you what kind of things I would add, but it's pretty cool that without any equipment you can train full body from the ground up.

[Austin James]

That's impressive because some people spend thousands on equipment or gym memberships and you could just do it without that. You're saying, definitely. Nice.

[Ben Patrick]

I do, I do both. So I love the body weight training. I also, at my studio gym have. Have nice equipment. Yeah, it's all. It's all tools, but yeah, just your body is enough of a tool that you can get good results.

[Austin James]

Nice. When you were playing basketball a lot, were you rolling your ankles often?

[Ben Patrick]

I had some nasty rolls, yeah. Those can linger for a while. Those can be really frustrating. I feel like the ankle roll in basketball, a lot of sports, once it gets into the contact nature, they have injuries that are going to happen to some degree. In basketball, it's when you land on someone else's foot, right. Like the ankle rolls to levels that are extreme. Like we were out barefoot in grass. Like, the ankle can only roll so far.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

But if you're now in a shoe with like an inch and a half rubber on the heel and you land on someone else's foot with another inch and a half rubber on the heel and your ankle rolls, like, these are extreme factors that you would not experience in nature on the ankle.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

So, yeah, it's. Those can be pretty extreme. Don't beat yourself up if it happens. Do get more ankle ability than the average person. So, yeah, I also trained the ankles to Have a lot more ability than they had before. So knock on wood, haven't had one in a long time.

[Austin James]

Nice.

[Ben Patrick]

But if I did, it just means that the recovery process would be a little bit better. I'd be able to still come back stronger. Whereas unfortunately, when someone rolls an ankle, the ankle ends up, on average, weakened and now much more likely to sprain again. So it can be tough to get out of that cycle.

[Austin James]

Yeah, Steph Curry dealt with that his first year or two. Yeah, I've had some nasty ones. Yeah. Landing off rebounds. Oh, man, it's rough.

[Ben Patrick]

Right. That's not preventable. Now, how bad is the sprain? How long does it take to recover? How much you come back? Those are things you can still influence.

[Austin James]

Right. And that's important. That's not talked about enough to recovery. Right. With athletes.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I mean, you have the sprain. Statistically that thing's not coming back to what it was before ever, statistically.

[Austin James]

Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. Like, statistically, that ankle is now not going to come back quite to what it was before. Obviously, if you're 12 when it happens or if you're 42 when it happens, there's gonna be a big difference in what it comes back to. So, yeah, I believe strongly in full range of motion strength training for the ankle.

[Austin James]

Wow. I didn't know that. Cause I've had a lot of sprints, so I wonder if you've had a lot.

[Ben Patrick]

You're part of that stat, I'm sorry to tell you.

[Austin James]

Yeah, I haven't noticed like a significant decrease, but may maybe over time just gradually.

[Ben Patrick]

How old are you?

[Austin James]

27.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, 27. And it doesn't mean it's significant, it just means like that's, that's. The stat is like with each one it's more likely to happen again. So that obviously indicates if it's more likely than it was before. Something's not fully back to what it was.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

That's all.

[Austin James]

Well, with your training now, you're back to the best you've ever been. So. Yeah, like you said, you're more athletic than you were in your 20s right now.

[Ben Patrick]

I mean, it's. I mean, I was kind of a joke, so that's not a fair comparison. But yeah, I reached my 20s having never dunked a basketball. And now it's like you're flying. If I get open at all in a game, like I'm throwing down two hands, which at 6:1 with short arms is like. That's pretty good.

[Austin James]

No, that is good.

[Ben Patrick]

Like for my 30s, I'm now like a good athlete. It just happened slowly though, from being a terrible athlete and then gradually being like, hey, I'm not as like unathletic as I was. To now where it's like, dang, this is cool. Like, I might be one of the freakiest 40 year old athletes in the world.

[Austin James]

You might have to enter the dunk contest.

[Ben Patrick]

It won't get to that level. But at 40, based on what we're seeing with other people doing this, like, it's like that at 40 I'll be in game dunking, which is, doesn't. That's never existed for someone who reached their 20s not being able to dunk whatsoever. Yeah, that's never been a thing.

[Austin James]

No. That's nuts. Because they tell you in your 40s to stop playing full court and you're out here dunking on kids.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. We've got guys 46 and 47 dunking who couldn't dunk in their 30s.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

They could dunk in their 20s, lost it in their 30s and now they're late 40s dunking.

[Austin James]

That's impressive, man.

[Ben Patrick]

So I'm like, boy, when I get to my fort, like I'll be a freak athlete in my 40s.

[Austin James]

Yeah. Because most NBA guys peak in their late 20s. I'd say so.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And that's understandable for NBA guys because you're putting so much, so much total trauma in there. LeBron's a fantastic example though. Like, it can be done, like you can maintained much longer than it was thought.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

And more importantly, I get ex pros reaching out. They just want to be able to play with their kids. They have small kids and they can't, they can't run around and play with them. Like, they'd have to like warm up for 20 minutes.

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

Like, otherwise it's kind of a hobble. They can't get down into deep positions. They can't live life the way they want. They're on painkillers just to get through the day to day.

[Austin James]

Damn. It's that bad with these guys. I didn't know that.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, it's probably worse than people realize for former athletes. I mean, they've, they've just used their body to such an extent. So yeah, I'm, I'm much more passionate about helping someone have a good quality of life. Like I don't care how much money they're, they're making plenty of money. Helping a player get better, that's really cool. Helping someone not be on painkillers, helping someone to be able to play with their kids. Infinitely cooler.

[Austin James]

Love it. So that's your purpose right there.

[Ben Patrick]

That's definitely. Yeah, I've found my purpose definitely is for people to know these tools and at least be able to better take care of their bodies. And now with kids, as I was showing you with this book, just the idea that JFK in the 1960s was making results not just for adults, but also for kids. So there's this giant disconnect between going to the gym and kids going to the playground. When you have kids, you're going to take them to the playground and you're going to see that they're doing cardio, strength, mobility, everything. But yet youth fitness stats are the worst in 60 years. So there's some disconnect and then people go to the gym. So that's. Yeah. My life's work now is all about taking these concepts and making it a smooth scale so that if you're the parent, what you're doing, your kids can naturally follow and then they'll know it for life.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

Rather than just. Yeah. Most of my work to this point has been fixing up people who are already damaged.

[Austin James]

I love it. RFK's new slogan is Make America Healthy Again. Did you see that?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I'm stoked to see that someone's trying. JFK just had sheer energy on it in the 1960s, and it worked. So I think that anyone who truly pours in the energy in some elite position will get results.

[Austin James]

Right.

[Ben Patrick]

I'm stoked, too. For me, it's more about educating on social media, one parent at a time, who then figures out whether it's one piece of my routine or the whole piece of my routine that they now can have their family doing it, not just their parents doing it, their kids doing it. So that's what we're seeing. We're seeing like three generations now, all being able to work out together.

[Austin James]

Nice. I love that. That's how it should be, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yep.

[Austin James]

We should get to four, if possible. Four generations. That'd be awesome.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I think.

[Austin James]

Great grandmother on the treadmill.

[Ben Patrick]

I think that could happen. But it has to be where each quality is so scalable that everyone can, like, join and learn and do it. Not where it takes some whole new effort for grandma and a whole new effort for the kid. Just a smoothly scalable system.

[Austin James]

Right. Yeah. It's exciting to see even politicians talk about it. I've never seen that in my lifetime. Talk about health.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

I think it's. I think it's needed, though, because these Obesity rates and disease rates are crazy right now.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And now imagine if as part of your upbringing as a kid, best case the school system. But that's why for me it's like, hey, if RFK integrates some fitness stuff, I do awesome. That's your one in a million shot. What I can control is actually making videos on social media week in, week out, educating parents who then start leading by example and then the kids follow. JFK's got a quote right in here. He says we must live our lives in such a way that our children and their children after them will form a natural and lasting commitment to the vigorous life. That's exactly what we're seeing. That's exactly what I'm working on. Stuff that we do that now my parents are winning with, but that my kids are already falling and like they don't even. I'm not telling them to exercise, they naturally want to follow it. That's the stuff I'm looking for.

[Austin James]

Nice. I love that. Yeah. I think gym class needs a reform. It was such a joke when I.

[Ben Patrick]

Went, yeah, lots of good can be done there.

[Austin James]

Yeah. I mean they just throw you in a room and say have fun for 30 minutes.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And even what they're doing in school gym class, whatever. I don't even think that's the problem. I think it's more like processed food is now so delicious, affordable, accessible.

[Austin James]

Yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

So like the ability to get calories is now easier and our day to day burn outside of school is now so much less because video games are so interesting and good and so among other things, social media and it's all really interesting addicting stuff. So the day to day life for a kid, you have easier access to non nutritious or less nutritious calories and now less daily expenditure. So I really think it's still saying it's the school's problem. I don't think that's going to get the job done. That might help a little bit. Having the parent who leads by example, that's where it's at. That's how you can write the ship for your family.

[Austin James]

So that's the major thing to focus on.

[Ben Patrick]

That's what I'm working on.

[Austin James]

Interesting.

[Ben Patrick]

I don't have to. And I get messages now like every day of gym teachers out there using this stuff. However, that's all a bonus. What I for sure can control that we're seeing is my game is educating the parent that the parent knows how to take care of their exercise, but that the parent knows how to do this in a way that the kids will grow up also learning it. Like this is a skill, like knowing how to exercise. A very valuable skill for life.

[Austin James]

Right? Yeah. The parents education is so important because they want the best for their kids. But I look at what I ate growing up and it was terrible. But my mom had no idea that was bad for me at the time or else she wouldn't have done it.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

There's probably a ton of parents in that same exact spot, right? For sure.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And it's an interesting time because while we do have all this addicting stuff now because of social media, you can also become a superhuman that you couldn't. Like, you couldn't get all this data a few decades ago, Right. Only because of social media now. Like, think in your world how much data you can get. Think how hard that would have been able to get.

[Austin James]

30 years, you would have had to manually look it up or go to the library.

[Ben Patrick]

Look what you can get now for free off YouTube super fast. Find different people, then do their like. Seems like a common theme is people will study. You can use YouTube or free sources. That alone may work, but then you also know really what's working for you. And then if you want, you can like dig deeper into certain areas that it's like already working for you. So yeah. Even when I see broad stats and it's like, oh, gosh, we're less healthy than ever, I remind myself there's a smaller subset of us becoming superhumans compared to previous generations because we can get so much data. Wow. But if you go with the flow. Yeah. Stats are worse than ever overall, right? Yeah. If you just go with the flow of what mainstream media tells you to do and pull up at the drive through and get like, if you just go with the flow of what's easiest, then you'll have more health problems than ever. But if you don't go with the flow. Yeah. You can become a super human.

[Austin James]

Yeah. Do you see the overall trend reversing anytime soon or do you think it'll take some time?

[Ben Patrick]

Hard to say. I can definitely control educating one parent at a time and being part of improvement. But also for me, if you think about value, like, let's say you, let's say you like really changed somebody's life, like forever. Their life is now like different.

[Austin James]

Yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

Better because of the work you did. Like, that's good enough for me. Keep, keep repping that as part of an overall effort with a lot of people trying to improve broad stats. So could broad stats improve? Definitely. My goal like 10 years from now, will more youth be able to do a pull up than today? I'm damn shooting for that.

[Austin James]

I couldn't do a pull up in high school. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's probably common though, these days.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. And there's. It's not a scalable system. So if you can't, then you're terrified, then you're. It's. It's almost like the less good you naturally are at it, the more you're going to avoid it because it becomes a source of embarrassment.

[Austin James]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

It needs to be a scalable system where everyone's having wins, everyone's being acknowledged for the level they can do. Having wins, taking pride, scalability. Like this is what this already worked for. Knees over toes. Like it has gone all over the world. I go around, I see a guy 2 days ago walking backward, pull up next to him walking backwards. He didn't see me.

[Austin James]

I love it.

[Ben Patrick]

Turns out, yeah, he saw it off my YouTube.

[Austin James]

There we go.

[Ben Patrick]

So go all the way. All over the world it is happening that people are doing knees over toes like never before. So that was crazy to think that I could actually make an impact on that when I started out. So it's just as crazy to think that 10 years from now more kids will be able to do a pull up than today. But worth going for.

[Austin James]

Yeah. I used to be ashamed walking backwards in public. I'm sure people dealt with that too five years ago.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. I think you get some mental gains from doing something for yourself that you have the desire to do, even though the mainstream might look at you funny.

[Austin James]

Yeah.

[Ben Patrick]

So I think I got some secondary mental gains from completely losing the social. It's wild thinking back, even through high school, how much I based my decisions and actions on what others would think of me.

[Austin James]

Oh, everything. Especially high school.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. So if you want to break that, you don't have to walk backward, but it's a drill you can do. I mean, you're literally drilling, doing something for yourself because you want to, versus you know, even if society's going to look at you funny.

[Austin James]

Right? No, they used to. I used to think they would judge me, but at the end of the day, I don't think anyone really cared about you walking backwards. Yeah, they were just projecting.

[Ben Patrick]

Start to find if you're in your own head, most people probably are too. And so, yeah, you better pursue what you're trying to pursue in life and not let other people's thoughts about you slow you down.

[Austin James]

Absolutely. Your mother sprinting at 70. I saw you talk about that. That's. Yeah, really impressive, man.

[Ben Patrick]

Thank you. Probably good for people to know that she didn't just immediately start doing this stuff. So I started a gym 10 years ago, and it took a few years for me to convince her to actually do these exercises. Her hip was deteriorating really badly. I visited her one time. She had fallen down the stairs, and I was starting to go, like, this is getting real. And so at that point, then she started exercising with me and completely overcame the hip problems. And, yeah, I don't tell her to, but she was telling me in recent years, like, oh, yeah. And I. You know, I like to sprint now. And I'm like, what's going on? So we got the cameras out and, like, she looked good. She's cooking, she's sprinting. But what's cool is, like, she's a super grandma now. Like, when I need help with the kids, if we go to a playground, she can do anything. She's mobile, she can get into low positions, run after them, climb all this stuff. Like, the joy that she's getting from being able to be active with the grandkids. Unbelievable. And they don't see her as a grandparent the way I saw my grandparents. No offense. I love the grandparents that I had, but my kids see her differently than how I saw my grandparents. As old and stiff. She's on the ground playing with them. They see her, and it's not like I have to tell them, go give grandma a hug or something. They're just running up because she's given me a break. I mean, grandma is as active with the kids as my wife and I are. Love it. This is a modern cheat code. Secretly train your parents so they will be mobile athletes to help watch your kids and give you a break.

[Austin James]

Little parenting.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

No, I love that. And that's a good point, because all my fondest memories of my grandparents are them sitting down in a chair, like a rocking chair, or them barely able to walk.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

So that shouldn't be like that, though.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, my kids are getting deeper memories with their grandkids or my. Yeah, my. And my kids are getting memories now with their grandparents that are different than what I had, where they're running with their grandparents, they're. They're playing with them, they're down on the floor being kids with them.

[Austin James]

That's incredible, man. Yeah. Because a lot of people really are scared of aging, but if you could provide a great lifestyle at that age, you know, that's really fulfilling.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. That's more what I'm after. Like, I'm not after my game is not how long I live. Like, I'm trying to have an awesome quality where I'm here.

[Austin James]

We're here for a good time, not a long time.

[Ben Patrick]

I'd say probably both.

[Austin James]

Yeah, I'm down probably both.

[Ben Patrick]

But my role in the game is definitely improving the quality. And, yeah, if the quality's better along the way, you'll probably last longer, too.

[Austin James]

Absolutely. Can you still do a split?

[Ben Patrick]

No problem.

[Austin James]

Easily.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Damn, that's impressive, man.

[Ben Patrick]

Because you're strong too many times, weirdly, on podcasts, I'm sure you guys, I can do the B roll for you after. You can. I don't. Yeah.

[Austin James]

How long did that take to train to that point?

[Ben Patrick]

Interesting to say, because I was not pursuing it at all.

[Austin James]

Really.

[Ben Patrick]

I was not pursuing a split.

[Austin James]

Oh, no.

[Ben Patrick]

If you see a lot of my videos, strength training and flexibility, I see these as part of a continuum. So a lot of the exercises I do, it would be hard for someone to pick is that more of a stretch or more of a strength training exercise. So I do a lot of strength training through my flexibility. This happens to give really good flexibility results. So it was just playing around maybe seven, eight years into this style of training and found out I could do a split, and it was like, what?

[Austin James]

Wow.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

So you didn't even know you just randomly did it?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

That's crazy. Do you think the flexibility helps with injury prevention?

[Ben Patrick]

I think if you're strong through those ranges, yeah. Now, I'm still a fan of strengthening and stretching separately. Like, I'm a fan of any kind of exercise you want to do. But, yes, I do believe there are exponentially powerful benefits to strength training through your flexibility.

[Austin James]

What do you think about yoga? I've been thinking about taking yoga classes.

[Ben Patrick]

Didn't give me those results.

[Austin James]

Oh, it didn't.

[Ben Patrick]

I did the strength training. I did the yoga. My knees still hurt. This is just me, but it's not against yoga. It's not against strength training. Getting the strength training where it's actually through my full flexibility was absolutely exponential results for me compared to separately stretching ranges that I'm not strong or strengthening areas, but being stiff.

[Austin James]

Good to know. So I'll focus on your regimen then.

[Ben Patrick]

It's working for jumping if you want to.

[Austin James]

That's my main goal, to increase my vertical.

[Ben Patrick]

So, yeah, I can make people springier if there's, you know, a few things I can do in life on the order of like asking someone to mow a lawn that it's like I can go get that result, making people springier and jump higher. Definitely love it.

[Austin James]

So, crazy story. I've never told you this, but my mom tore her meniscus.

[Ben Patrick]

Oh, wow.

[Austin James]

She was a tennis player.

[Ben Patrick]

Oh, wow.

[Austin James]

So the first time she tore, she got surgery on, I think it was her right knee. She tore it again on her left knee. I put her on your regimen. I showed her your YouTube videos about walking backwards, tibialis raises and everything. She's perfectly fine now, dude. Isn't that crazy? She never got surgery on the torn meniscus.

[Ben Patrick]

Shout out to your mom.

[Austin James]

Yeah, she watches every episode too. So.

[Ben Patrick]

Mama.

[Austin James]

So thank you for that, man.

[Ben Patrick]

That's.

[Austin James]

That's incredible. And all that information was free. You could have charged for that. So I appreciate that.

[Ben Patrick]

I love that.

[Austin James]

And I'm sure you hear stories like that all the time.

[Ben Patrick]

Makes my day. Like, I just got like chills right now. It never, never gets old.

[Austin James]

Wow, that's awesome, dude. Yeah. Because you save there a ton of money, ton of stress. Surgery is pretty invasive sometimes.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, it's. That's an interesting thing and one that I still won't be pretend to be an expert on is when you should have surgery versus when not. I would say that many doctors now reach out and tell me, hey, I referred this person, I referred that person to do my program. So I think that your best bet now is like, doctors who learn what I do, they're now seem to be becoming really proficient at when to recommend surgery versus not.

[Austin James]

That's. That's exciting, actually.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah.

[Austin James]

Because the big pharmacist, they're under a lot of attack. But there are some good doctors out there.

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, think how many people get into some of those jobs because they want to help?

[Austin James]

A lot of them mean well, right?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah, they just get. Yeah. When you really dig in and get to know people, I'd say people are a lot better than we broadly assume. Most people are really good people. And if they even do get into some reason you dislike them, there's probably reasons for that that if you knew it would make a lot more sense.

[Austin James]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, where can people buy the sleds, buy the treadmill and keep up with you?

[Ben Patrick]

Yeah. ATG Online coaching dot com. That's my bread and butter business. Coaching people without any equipment to do my knee ability program. That being said, what I try to do is teach everything I know on Instagram, on YouTube, I write threads on X. So wherever people are going to be accessing the information. That's how I like to do it. All the knowledge that I can put out for free. And then if you want coaching, I have as far as I've seen the lowest price to be able to see the programs, send in your form, video your questions, have it answered under 24 hours, $50 a month, no long term contract. And then beyond that, some people want to get more equipment to make it user friendly or to add further levels to things. So right from atgonlinecoaching.com there's the button to sign up and there's the button to check out the equipment and that's what I do.

[Austin James]

Amazing. We'll link below. Thanks so much for coming on, Ben. That was awesome.

[Ben Patrick]

Thanks for having me on.

[Austin James]

Yeah, look forward to getting trained by you.

[Ben Patrick]

Can't wait.

[Austin James]

Let's do it. Thanks for watching guys. Check out the links below. See you next time.